Forging Steel, the strike mission that is not a strike mission. How to fix? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Forging Steel, the strike mission that is not a strike mission. How to fix?

trixantea.1230trixantea.1230 Member ✭✭✭

Forging Steel has many good things but at the same time it is one of the most confusing things in EotN. The vast majority groups avoid doing it duirng their daily strike run and this always rises the following questions: What is wrong about Forging Steel? Is it a strike mission or not?

Arguments for FS being a strike mission:

Arguments for FS not being a strike mission:

  • Different gameplay than other strike mission encounters that come only with boss and adds.
  • It does not come as a daily strike and does not appear in the strike mission selection screen.

So, in order to solve this issue, I propose one of these solutions:

  • Remove FS from Whispers Emissary Chest. You can call it afterwards adventure, story mission, dungeon, fractal, whatever.. just not a strike mission.

Or:

  • Add it to the strike mission selection screen and make players only do the last boss fight. That would be more of a daily content for players.

Comments

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 15, 2020

    According to the GW2 Wiki notes "There's no reference in-game that Forging Steel is a strike mission.".
    The Wiki is player-made, so they just called it a Strike Mission for convenience.

    Some more arguments for it not being a SM:

    • Apart from the "Secret Lair of the Snowmen", which started out as a raid, Strike Missions tend to have "Strike Mission" in their name.
    • It scales with player number.

    Anet call Forging Steel a "Public Mission".
    https://guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/march-17-2020/
    https://guildwars2.com/en/news/designing-the-steel-warband/

    About the Whispers Emissary Chest: I think it is fine the way it is.
    Forging Steel isn't a Strike Mission, there's nothing Anet needs to "fix" here.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.
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  • trixantea.1230trixantea.1230 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 15, 2020

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    According to the GW2 Wiki notes "There's no reference in-game that Forging Steel is a strike mission.".
    The Wiki is player-made, so they just called it a Strike Mission for convenience.

    Another argument for it not being a SM:
    Apart from the "Secret Lair of the Snowmen", which started out as a raid, Strike Missions tend to have "Strike Mission" in their name.

    Anet call Forging Steel a "Public Mission".
    https://guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/march-17-2020/
    https://guildwars2.com/en/news/designing-the-steel-warband/

    About the Whispers Emissary Chest: I think it is fine the way it is.
    Forging Steel isn't a Strike Mission, there's nothing Anet needs to "fix" here.

    Most of what you say is correct but what "you think is fine the way it is" is what you think is fine and not what everyone else thinks.
    Besides, many people enter this weekly mission out of obligation and this is why we see so many afk players slacking off and waiting for the others to reach the final boss.

    The two suggestions I made will not only add more daily content for players but they will also reduce the amount of afk players in this area. You can say that AFK can be kicked but the fact that this mission is the only one that has this isssue will always remain.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @trixantea.1230 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    According to the GW2 Wiki notes "There's no reference in-game that Forging Steel is a strike mission.".
    The Wiki is player-made, so they just called it a Strike Mission for convenience.

    Another argument for it not being a SM:
    Apart from the "Secret Lair of the Snowmen", which started out as a raid, Strike Missions tend to have "Strike Mission" in their name.

    Anet call Forging Steel a "Public Mission".
    https://guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/march-17-2020/
    https://guildwars2.com/en/news/designing-the-steel-warband/

    About the Whispers Emissary Chest: I think it is fine the way it is.
    Forging Steel isn't a Strike Mission, there's nothing Anet needs to "fix" here.

    Most of what you say is correct but what "you think is fine the way it is" is what you think is fine and not what everyone else thinks.
    Besides, many people enter this weekly mission out of obligation and this is why we see so many afk players slacking off and waiting for the others to reach the final boss.

    The two suggestion I made will not only add more daily content for players but it will also reduce the amount of afk players in this area. You can say that AFK can be kicked but the core problem is when this mission is the only one that has this isssue.

    But saying "it isn't fine" is also just what you think, not what everyone else thinks ;).
    There's no "obligation" to enter this mission, people do it to be rewarded. AFK leeching isn't something new, it is commonly seen in lots of open/hotjoin content.

    I'd suggest opening your own squad and kicking leechers, if you don't want any afkers, like you said yourself.
    I'd bet people would afk in the other SMs, too if they could through hotjoin, but most of the time hotjoin doesn't work for the other SMs.

    Your two suggestions would either just remove the extra loot from doing Forging Steel from the Emissary Chest or completely remove most of the Forging Steel mission by "only fighting the last boss".

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.
    Remaster confirmed! Umbasa!

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Run it with friends if you want to avoid leechers 100%.
    Dont do it if you dont want the loot and dont destroy it for everyone else with these 2 silly suggestions.

  • trixantea.1230trixantea.1230 Member ✭✭✭

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    There's no "obligation" to enter this mission, people do it to be rewarded. AFK leeching isn't something new, it is commonly seen in lots of open/hotjoin content.

    The obligation is to make strike mission players do a content that is not a strike mission in order to get the weekly chest.

    I'd suggest opening your own squad and kicking leechers, if you don't want any afkers, like you said yourself.
    I'd bet people would afk in the other SMs, too if they could through hotjoin, but most of the time hotjoin doesn't work for the other SMs.

    It won't help if one commander or 100 commanders kick afk players. The problem is with the design that encourages players to go AFK. This issue will always continue to exist forever if things do not change.

    Your two suggestions would either just remove the extra loot from doing Forging Steel from the Emissary Chest or completely remove most of the Forging Steel mission by "only fighting the last boss".

    The extra loot can remain if FS boss is added as a strike mission. This can still be done by keeping public/story/raid FS as it is.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 15, 2020

    @trixantea.1230 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    There's no "obligation" to enter this mission, people do it to be rewarded. AFK leeching isn't something new, it is commonly seen in lots of open/hotjoin content.

    The obligation is to make strike mission players do a content that is not a strike mission in order to get the weekly chest.

    To get the weekly Forging Steel and Steel Warband chests, which are naturally tied to Forging Steel, you'll have to do Forging Steel, obviously.
    Not doing Forging Steel will still grant you all of the the non-Forging Steel chests.
    There's no obligation there.

    I'd suggest opening your own squad and kicking leechers, if you don't want any afkers, like you said yourself.
    I'd bet people would afk in the other SMs, too if they could through hotjoin, but most of the time hotjoin doesn't work for the other SMs.

    It won't help if one commander or 100 commanders kick afk players. The problem is with the design that encourages players to go AFK. This issue will always continue to exist forever if things do not change.

    Then don't join public missions if you can't deal with it. Just create your own private squad and kick afk / under-performing people like in the Strikes/Raids. You'll never have any afkers that way.

    Your two suggestions would either just remove the extra loot from doing Forging Steel from the Emissary Chest or completely remove most of the Forging Steel mission by "only fighting the last boss".

    The extra loot can remain if FS boss is added as a strike mission. This can still be done by keeping public/story/raid FS as it is.

    The extra loot is already there if you do FS and there's no problem with it. You already have the option to just not get it and get everything else instead.
    You're seeing a problem where there is none. You're advocating for the Emissary Chest to grant less loot, just because you can't be bothered to create your own squad.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.
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  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't get why. I only do 2 or 3 daily strikes a week to get 2 or 3 crystals and open the chest for the extra loot. If you do all 5 you get extra loot for each one you do. It is up to you how many you do so no, just removing one of the optional strikes/not a strike is not a good idea as it would punish any that like the forging steel one

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • Nazarick.9653Nazarick.9653 Member ✭✭
    edited July 15, 2020

    I find it more engaging than the other strikes, but it just isn't efficient to run more than once a day - it takes twice as long as shiver+fraenir+kodans and gives the same number of shards. (similar to CW, in fact that one is much worse because it's only 1/3 as efficient as the 3 easymodes)

    It needs some of the crappy time gates removing (bootcamp, first bridge, dwarf canyon, ruins before last bridge) and a higher+shorter range of RNG for shards. (so it can never be so far behind the easymodes)

    What it could also use is variable rewards like Cold War - the more you participate in the events throughout, the more you get at the end.

  • Norec.8256Norec.8256 Member ✭✭
    edited July 15, 2020

    Is it a strike mission or not?

    It's not a strike, more like a story mission you can play with 9 other players.
    You can run it solo and mobs will scale for 1 player (last boss is incredibly weak when you run this instance solo).

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @trixantea.1230 said:
    Forging Steel has many good things but at the same time it is one of the most confusing things in EotN. The vast majority groups avoid doing it duirng their daily strike run and this always rises the following questions: What is wrong about Forging Steel? Is it a strike mission or not?

    Many players avoid it because it takes a solid half hour, when other strike missions take 5 mins not because anything is wrong with it.

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • Roche.7491Roche.7491 Member ✭✭

    It’s fine. They just need to reword it.

    Strike means easy
    Raid means hard

    Easy mission
    Hard mission

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    @trixantea.1230 said:

    • Remove FS from Whispers Emissary Chest. You can call it afterwards adventure, story mission, dungeon, fractal, whatever.. just not a strike mission.

    You don't need to light all the lights on the chest to open it. If they remove it they are just removing additional incentive to play FS and some extra loot for those who play it. So, no ty.

  • You can open the chest without having played FS so you should be fine.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @trixantea.1230 said:
    Forging Steel has many good things but at the same time it is one of the most confusing things in EotN. The vast majority groups avoid doing it duirng their daily strike run and this always rises the following questions: What is wrong about Forging Steel? Is it a strike mission or not?

    Arguments for FS being a strike mission:

    Arguments for FS not being a strike mission:

    • Different gameplay than other strike mission encounters that come only with boss and adds.
    • It does not come as a daily strike and does not appear in the strike mission selection screen.

    So, in order to solve this issue, I propose one of these solutions:

    • Remove FS from Whispers Emissary Chest. You can call it afterwards adventure, story mission, dungeon, fractal, whatever.. just not a strike mission.

    Or:

    • Add it to the strike mission selection screen and make players only do the last boss fight. That would be more of a daily content for players.

    You don't need to play Forging Steel to open the chest, so just don't? Why take away something other people like, just because you don't?

    If it were me, I would add Drakkar and Jora's Keep to the chest too. The more we are rewarded for doing different activities the better.

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The only "fix" this mission could use is to lower the number of players required to break the BB at the end by one every time the CC fails.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 27, 2020

    @Tails.9372 said:
    The only "fix" this mission could use is to lower the number of players required to break the BB at the end by one every time the CC fails.

    That goes against the point of these as being a stepping stone for raids. Players need to learn and perform the mechanics. They should not be rewarded for failing them with it being made easier.

    The only thing Anet should do it ensure that it properly scales to the number of players in the instance like it’s reported to do if someone enters solo.

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 27, 2020

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:
    The only "fix" this mission could use is to lower the number of players required to break the BB at the end by one every time the CC fails.

    That goes against the point of these as being a stepping stone for raids.

    Except visions of the past have never been introduced as a "stepping stone for raids".

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:
    The only "fix" this mission could use is to lower the number of players required to break the BB at the end by one every time the CC fails.

    That goes against the point of these as being a stepping stone for raids.

    Except visions of the past have never been introduced as a "stepping stone for raids".

    Based on what?

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:
    The only "fix" this mission could use is to lower the number of players required to break the BB at the end by one every time the CC fails.

    That goes against the point of these as being a stepping stone for raids.

    Except visions of the past have never been introduced as a "stepping stone for raids".

    Based on what?

    The simple fact that there is no official source stating such a thing, FS is nothing but instanced MP content for the icebrood saga.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:
    The only "fix" this mission could use is to lower the number of players required to break the BB at the end by one every time the CC fails.

    That goes against the point of these as being a stepping stone for raids.

    Except visions of the past have never been introduced as a "stepping stone for raids".

    Based on what?

    The simple fact that there is no official source stating such a thing, FS is nothing but instanced MP content for the icebrood saga.

    There’s no official source stating that it isn’t.

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:
    The only "fix" this mission could use is to lower the number of players required to break the BB at the end by one every time the CC fails.

    That goes against the point of these as being a stepping stone for raids.

    Except visions of the past have never been introduced as a "stepping stone for raids".

    Based on what?

    The simple fact that there is no official source stating such a thing, FS is nothing but instanced MP content for the icebrood saga.

    There’s no official source stating that it isn’t.

    Sure there is: the way the content has been presented by the game to the player. The way Aurene describes the content does not indicate any increase in "difficulty" at all (quite the opposite).

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:
    The only "fix" this mission could use is to lower the number of players required to break the BB at the end by one every time the CC fails.

    That goes against the point of these as being a stepping stone for raids.

    Except visions of the past have never been introduced as a "stepping stone for raids".

    Based on what?

    The simple fact that there is no official source stating such a thing, FS is nothing but instanced MP content for the icebrood saga.

    There’s no official source stating that it isn’t.

    Sure there is: the way the content has been presented by the game to the player. The way Aurene describes the content does not indicate any increase in "difficulty" at all (quite the opposite).

    It's presented to the player as a strike with the exception of it not being explicitly called out as one. The game indicates an increase of difficulty for each and every other strike through dialogue?

  • aleron.1438aleron.1438 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2020

    How to fix FS (listen up Anetian)

    Eye of the North:

    Leave Forged Strike Echo and Hum part of Emissary chest.

    Add it to the daily rotation of recommended strike missions.

    Forged Steel strike overhaul:

    Camp readiness meta

    Cut off 5 minutes from the current initial camp readiness timer event.

    Remove the Svanir champ optional choice when you have to cull the Svanir presence.
    Once enough was culled, remove return to camp timer preceding the 2 add spawn patrols that charge the camp and instead, immediately spawn the Svanir champ that comes charging from the gate towards the camp.

    Make Nicabar potion ingredients gathering fixed regardless of scaling to 2 of each (snow/mushroom/grub/alpine blossom).
    Remove the downtime timer after completion of gathering and make Nicabar run towards the camp exit and make him drop the tonics there as tank starts to move out.

    Remove the scaling on Vishen sniper pre event. 7kills =event ends. 2x #1 for 1kill or #2 fully one shot kill.

    Throughout whole Forged Steel strike

    Scrap Metal toss on the tank also gives it a buff of 5 second Superspeed. Remember Superspeed doesn't stack in duration but overwrites previous one.

    Picking up Nicabar tonic cast time 1s
    Picking up Alpine blossom cast time 1s

    Vishen perched sniping event n°1:

    Remove the timer. A fixed yet #players scaling amount of mobs ends it directly. Reduced 2 waves from each portal. tank resumes once clear.

    Dwarven Gate + Nicabar Tonic event #1 :

    Fixed to 2 of each gathered and returned.
    Gate weak points available as soon as the spawns from the initial 2 portals and portals themselves taken out. (currently the case)

    Dwarven Plaza + Vishen sniper perch event #2 + Nicabar Tonic event #2:

    Remove timer from Vishen, 7 bubbled dwarf kills ends it.
    Fixed 2 gatherings material of each for Nicabar tonic completion.
    After 2 champ drake riders and mounts die, 3 total waves of crazed dwarves from each spawn points. Upon clearing complition, Tank resumes moving leading to 3 runes plates to draw the bridge.

    Forgeman boss

    Add a weak point on the Forgeman that can be only damaged by Stoneforge cannons. 3 hits initiate the Pressure vent event. (10sec timer for tank to go harpoon spot). This will enable focused squads to speed things up and bypass the natural waiting time. This weak point is only revealed upon successfully standing one the 3 rune plates (which currently only raises the cover/walls).

    **** In Conclusion ****
    What all these can changes mean, we go from a currently very lengthy strike to one where being focused and participative will speed the whole run tremendously.

    Because make no mistake, currently doing forged steel strike solo or duo is much faster than with 5-10man due to scaling.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:
    The only "fix" this mission could use is to lower the number of players required to break the BB at the end by one every time the CC fails.

    That goes against the point of these as being a stepping stone for raids.

    Except visions of the past have never been introduced as a "stepping stone for raids".

    Based on what?

    The simple fact that there is no official source stating such a thing, FS is nothing but instanced MP content for the icebrood saga.

    There’s no official source stating that it isn’t.

    There‘s no official source stating that crafting isn‘t a stepping stone for raids, therefore it is!
    And raids are just a stepping stone for story instances, Anet never stated that they aren‘t. ;)

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.
    Remaster confirmed! Umbasa!

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Here's an official source from ArenaNet stating Forging Steel is a Strike Mission.

    Dialogue from (X) Emissary Chest:

    "The chest thrums with potential. Use Red/Green/Blue Prophet Crystals to open. Contains rewards from Strike Missions you have completed since last opening it.
    Can be opened once a week."

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2020

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    Here's an official source from ArenaNet stating Forging Steel is a Strike Mission.

    Dialogue from (X) Emissary Chest:

    "The chest thrums with potential. Use Red/Green/Blue Prophet Crystals to open. Contains rewards from Strike Missions you have completed since last opening it.
    Can be opened once a week."

    A tool box can contain a hammer. That doesn‘t mean it only contains a hammer.
    Same thing here: it contains the strike mission boxes, as well as the FS chest and some pieces of rare unidentified gear.

    Taking a closer look at the chest rewards descriptions makes this clear:

    FS:
    Double-click to open. Contains loot rewarded for earning Centurion rank in the Forging Steel vision.

    Shiverpeaks (and others)
    Double-click to open. Contains loot rewarded for earning gold rank in the Shiverpeaks Pass Strike Mission.

    Only FS is called a vision, not a SM. The official term for FS is “Public Mission“, or vision.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.
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  • Black Storm.6974Black Storm.6974 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020

    Forging Steel is the first instance of a new game content called “Visions of the Past”.
    ArenaNet put on it rewards that was supposed to be for Strike Missions, for reasons I don’t know (maybe just to not work on an unique reward system).

    Considering Forging Steel is different from and way longer than any Strike Mission, and considering it already belongs to a different game content, I’d not add it to the Strike Missions we can access to from the portal in EOTN.
    It would be kind of like adding Dungeons to the Fractal portal, in case ArenaNet, for reasons, would decide to let them count for the repeatable Dungeon Frequenter achievement.

    Forging Steel even has its own category in the LFG.

    I’d support the idea of solving that confusion by removing Strike Missions reward from Forging Steel, replacing it with something different (just like Fractal has its own rewards, not mixed with the Dungeon ones). Anyway, I wonder if they are still willing to develop Visions of the Past.