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I want to raid but I hate meta

Hi,

In GW2 I enjoy a bit of everything to be honest. I'd like to give raiding a try but I do hate the whole "meta" scene, I like to create my own builds and once I feel like I have something that really works very well for me I just want to play it. I don't like changing character, equipment and build all the time.
I was wondering are you able to join raids if you don't follow the meta ? :astonished:

Comments

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ofcourse you can, if your build can preform your role. (tank dps or healer)

  • To be honest, yes you can successfuly raid clear on off meta builds. For example if you are not a good power boon Chrono you can try a full diviners boon generator. Will the damage be trash. Yes , but then again most groups don't depend on the boon Chrono to dps. If you want to build your own thing and push through raids all the more power to you.

    However!!! There is the one issue that although you don't like the meta , the meta still exists and is generally applied to most people. If a group requests a druid pusher for w5 you are expected to heal the group and push ads at a very minimum. You can't go into the raiding community and expect people to be ok with a dps druid on soldiers gear. Your build should compliment and add value to the team.

    My recommendation is to build your own dps class since most people don't really care about the dps rolls anyways. I've cleared dhuum on 6 power Holo for example. Support classes might be more difficult since each support class has tons of utility and responsibilities during a run.

    Side note: off meta weird stuff will likely get you booted from experienced pugs or groups .

    Good question and some really hard answers.

    Wish you the best,

    Alac and boon man

  • Meta is about synergy and efficiency. Compositions are desired because they work effectively. Maybe you discover a new meta build, maybe you don't. Maybe your build is good, maybe its not. However many people like to stick to the tried and true so that they succeed in a quick manner. You most certainly can create whatever build you want and play it. However, if you are going to do group content then that has to be acceptable to the group you are with. I think that will be your biggest hurdle.

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭

    People generally don't mind much if your build is meta or off-meta as long as it does its job adequately enough as whatever usual role it's doing in the squad. So even as off-meta, you're still expected to do proper dps as dps and heal+boon to as a support. Considering that people run heal scourge now, 2nd healer isn't necessarily requires to bring much boons if primary healer covers for that slack, but even then Kitty recommends going high BD and try to bring at least fury as healer.
    And the general mathematic rule is: if your build does lower benchmark dps than meta, you gotta compensate by playing it better than meta players play theirs. If you play a build that benches 25k to 90% of its benchmark dps in real situation, you still out-dps someone who plays 37k build to 60% in real situation. In other words: you need to outskill rest of the squad to do equally well. And of course the most important thing is to understand your build and what it needs to do completely if you go onto unguided paths. Generally doing 25-28k on golem with whatever dps build you're playing is enough for most raid situations.
    Kitty's personally doing exactly that and that's why people generally let her play even super-memes like power rifle spellbreaker that she benches to 21k. She simply knows what she's doing well enough to cover for that massive difference. You can check Kitty's videos to see how off-meta works as she's played most of imaginable builds. (search "Lady Kitty gw2" on youtube)
    But even then, memes have their time and place. Like you shouldn't bring a sword to a gunfight, you shouldn't bring a low-performance build to high-end squad or very dps-heavy bosses or condi to power boss/viceversa or you're very likely to get kicked for not carrying your weight. Bringing off-meta power to Largos or condi to KC are extremely easy ways to get defenestrated from squad.
    And don't ever bring soldier's gears to raids. Never. Dps's job is to dps and healers keep the dpsers alive. Condis with small power component (85% condi/power) can get away with trailblazer's at bosses without toughness tank since power+prec don't affect their dps much. But if you don't know which bosses and draw aggro even once, prepare for boot. Condi should always have viper's main set or equivalent 0 toughness set with high condi duration for those situations.

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2020

    The META is nothing more than strategies and builds which were thought of, tested and proven to work. The ill feeling usually take one of two sides, or more like one of two extremes. Both of them are pretty annoying.

    There are indeed those who insist on the exact SC website recommendations for specfic bosses no matter what. They neither understand about build details, about the bosses in question and why stuff is used against them or anything about the synergies at work. They often fail to acknowledge that certain builds are harder to perform well on than others and other limiting factors. People who would bet their life on nobody ever being able to finish a raid unless they run the current META. But that is just one side.

    There are non-meta builds and there are non-meta builds. They range from stuff that is almost as good as the current META down to something that is worse than having an empty slot in your squad. Which brings us to the other extreme and why many players tend to be worried whenever they see someone intending to play a non-meta build. I have seen my fair share of these builds people tend to think of themselves. Some of them were so bad, that I would have to try really hard to come up with something lacking synergies to that degree. These players are equally clueless about anything I mentioned above but instead of blindly following the META, they end up completely disregarding it which is just as bad, if not worse.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • Skugga.5298Skugga.5298 Member ✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Here is the deal:
    Most players who say they want to run non meta builds don't actually mean that.

    What they mean is:
    I want to run my custom build, which I have no clue how good or bad it is, while not understanding class synergy, and which I have just thrown together because I like the stuff I use.

    No, so far away from the truth, the reason why I don't like meta is because I feel like I am more than capable of building my own builds that I truly understand and know what they do.
    I hate to copy-paste something and then have to learn another playstyle. I can do it, have done it before I just don't enjoy it.
    Another reason why I am against meta is because I can't afford swapping stats every so often on my ascended gear, + runes, +sigils etc, I don't have any legendary gear.

    So that was the whole reasoning behind this post , I want to be able to play what I have build instead of playing the "crafting" game and focus on making new pieces or changing pieces etc.

  • DirtyDan.4759DirtyDan.4759 Member ✭✭✭

    Make your own group.

  • TrOtskY.5927TrOtskY.5927 Member ✭✭

    @Strider.7849 said:
    Unfortunately this has a negative side effect.. had someone in my raid bring their "custom" build even though we requested that all people take the month to gear up in advance with their class of choice and to watch a video of how to do the raid before we attempt it.

    One person decided to show up with a longbow max range ranger wearing full condition gear and running brown bear. None of us kicked him or anything but I personally found it quite rude to the other 9 players who spent time, gold, and effort to make this event happen. It was our first time raiding and we kept wiping with the boss at or less than 5% health - with that one member contributing little to nothing for the group (my druids pet alone was vastly out dpsing them).

    The past few days in high tier fractals the same kitten has been happening where these max range rangers are joining groups - getting no buffs/heals and dying in nearly every encounter. I main ranger so I guess this infuriates me even more to see people being so selfish. I can see why "elitists" end up posting for experience + specific meta builds, because some people just don't care at all about the others they play with.

    Whilst frustrating, that Longbow Ranger is still going to fail to contribute no matter what build he is bringing. There is a point where poeple are just so bad that it doesnt matter what they run and I can guarantee 90% of longbear players are exactly this.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TrOtskY.5927 said:
    Whilst frustrating, that Longbow Ranger is still going to fail to contribute no matter what build he is bringing. There is a point where poeple are just so bad that it doesnt matter what they run and I can guarantee 90% of longbear players are exactly this.

    Actually longbow soulbeast is extremely strong and meta on a few raid encounters and fractal bosses. It does a lot of damage but only with soulbeast and only when used together with x / axe in the 2nd set.
    Meta builds are nothing special. If the OP would understand how the raids work he would come up with a build thats extremely close to meta. But this reads more like the OP wants to bring his celestial staff core ele into raids or something like a trailblazer staff mirage.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2020

    META means: Most Effective Tactic Available. Periodically you see Snowcrows posting new METAs after balance patches. And each bossfight has a different META. However in reality people don't go with the "most effective" classes but rather "mostly effective" teamcomps. While certain classes/roles for many encounters are kinda mandatory, dps roles however are not. For example if you want to go with a dps engineer while the META suggests to play dragonhunter that will not be a huge problem.
    However that being said there are not many "creative" options while you are making a dps class. You gotta try get that critcap with your build.
    For example if you play warrior, you can run full zerk with one piece of assassin's and run Thief runes as the *meta suggests or go with more assassin's pieces and get scholar runes with a minor dps loss. Will not be most effective, but will be very close to it. Or you could change 1 trait or two depending on a situation on your class. But more than that can seriously harm the potential of the class you are playing. Let's say if you can change the build of your warrior and do 90% of the benchmark, you are good. Chances are your gameplay will not be much different from the "meta build" and the authenticity of your build won't interest anyone and is more RP than anything else, so you will be handicaping yourself and your team by gaining nothing.

  • Leo.5829Leo.5829 Member ✭✭✭

    If you don't like Meta gaming find another game. GW2 has been this way for years and unfortunately it doesn't seem like it is going to change anytime soon. GW2 straight up lied about there being:
    a)no dedicated support / tank
    b)skillful play
    c)balance
    d)play however you want
    e)no grind
    f) actions against cheaters and bots
    and then censor anyone who calls them out for it. Apart from that and the very poor PR skills the game is actually very good though.

  • Wolfb.7025Wolfb.7025 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2020

    If you're gonna play DPS, feel free to make any build you want. Take into consideration, however, that Raid Bosses has a time limit before enrage, enrage makes most of the bosses twice as difficult to deal with and its something no one wants to deal with. To avoid this, you need good squad DPS to kill the boss before it hits enrage.
    Another thing is, having decent squad DPS allows your group to skip mechanics that are bothersome or hard to deal with.

    Just do yourself a favor, you don't want to "copy paste" a meta build and thats ok, but before you decide to go raiding, go to the Raid Trainign Golem, apply 10 condis on a 4m hp golem, and put yourself all the boons and warrior/ranger boons, if you kill the golem for more than 3 consecutive times with an ending dps of 25k or above with your own build, you're fine to start training/raiding.

    Years just pass like trains
    I wave but they don't sloow dooown~ don't slow doown~♪

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2020

    I dont think its too bad if playing something not-meta.

    For example ,i main herald as a dps class. Is it meta? Not even close. But im still able to compete damage-wise with meta classes/builds.... at least sometimes.

    i think if ur stuff would work too, unless its like "Dps with Celestial-Stats only" or smth close

  • zombyturtle.5980zombyturtle.5980 Member ✭✭✭

    If you could post a link to your build and gear, people could give you an idea if its suitable for raids or not.

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leo.5829 said:
    If you don't like Meta gaming find another game. GW2 has been this way for years and unfortunately it doesn't seem like it is going to change anytime soon. GW2 straight up lied about there being:
    a)no dedicated support / tank
    b)skillful play
    c)balance
    d)play however you want
    e)no grind
    f) actions against cheaters and bots
    and then censor anyone who calls them out for it. Apart from that and the very poor PR skills the game is actually very good though.

    A competitive game where meta doesn't matter doesn't exist. Computer game or any game. I can't think of a game completely devoid of tactics.

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 19, 2020

    People with experience might be able to run off meta builds and make it useful in raids. However if you have no experience in the first place and also refuse to run a meta build im aifraid all you'd do is leech. And I think it's obvious why people don't want that. Gather a squad of 10 inexperienced people running offmeta builds and try to kill a boss. You will see how it goes.

  • Sigerk.2897Sigerk.2897 Member ✭✭

    Making your own group would be the best. Find some like-minded people, explain to them what you would like to do. Start training together and work your way up. Find a nice guild you'd like to join or create your own. This way you ensure that you will be playing with ppl on the same page as you are. Its what I did in another game, and it was super fun. No pug nightmares, no stress beforehand because you don't know if the ppl you're playing with are gonna go off when things go south. Then you start getting better together and fights that took long and had many wipes suddenly become easy as you progress.

    Also the whole META stuff comes with its own preconceived notions that aren't always correct. Such as ''dps meters = toxicity'', which is simply not true but can feel like that if you are unfamiliar/uninitiated into raids. DPS meters are a tool that can help you figure out where you can still improve. Meta builds are recommended and used because they work. That doesn't mean that they are the end-all when it comes to building for a raid. But they definitely can help serve as a stepping stone towards a better understanding of your class/spec because they are specifically tailored for doing this sort of content. Once you understand why a build is setup like it is, and what makes it work, you can start looking outside of the meta, make your own configurations and test these for yourself. But you will most likely always have to compromise. A build that you absolutely love to play might just not be good enough for raid content. That's not a negative thing. It just means you need to adapt.

  • vyncius.6105vyncius.6105 Member ✭✭✭

    I was like you. I had my trailblazer, mad kings runes renegade build that i really liked and i thought i can run this in fractals or raids, because i was stomping open world content. Boy i was i wrong, got my first reality check in fractals, when i did less dps than boon chrono.

    its fine if you dont want to play meta build, but dont be surprised if you get kicked out of groups for not pulling your own weight.

  • skarpak.8594skarpak.8594 Member ✭✭
    edited July 20, 2020

    @Skugga.5298 said:
    No, so far away from the truth, the reason why I don't like meta is because I feel like I am more than capable of building my own builds that I truly understand and know what they do.
    I hate to copy-paste something and then have to learn another playstyle. I can do it, have done it before I just don't enjoy it.
    Another reason why I am against meta is because I can't afford swapping stats every so often on my ascended gear, + runes, +sigils etc, I don't have any legendary gear.

    So that was the whole reasoning behind this post , I want to be able to play what I have build instead of playing the "crafting" game and focus on making new pieces or changing pieces etc.

    nice that you understand your own builds, but do you understand teamcompositions and how teamoptimization works?

    as example: all power builds try to cap on 100% critchance...so each class uses berserker and / or assassins gear to get there. depending on the traits of a class, you can either go with full zerk or need to slot in different runes / sigils / assassins gear. or craft your build in a way that you reach 100% critchance with spotter, while being able to simply use +100 precision food incase you do not get spotter, but still critcap.
    now, thats for a build on a power dps slot. options are limited...but meta for soulbeast for example would be to take skirmishing + scholar runes and fullzerk, while offmeta would be using marksmanship and using thief runes to be able to critcap. second build is offmeta, but still performs nearly as good as the meta variant and is therefore playable in a power dps slot.
    same with all kinds of power holosmith variantions where you either play with sword and 150% heat while never overheating....or only 100% heat and rifle while always overheating.

    another example would be playing the meta quickness firebrand vs the nonmeta quickness firebrand version which uses firebrand runes. both do nearly the same kind of damage, both can provide permanent quickness. one is meta and one is not a meta build. the non meta build is objectivly even better then the meta build in scenarios without perfect gameplay, as you overcap boon duration by enough to have room of error. or room to breath in case you need to move a lot and group members are not always in range so you can hold back without loosing permanent quickness uptime on the group.

    ...now, if you say "you know what your build does". well what does it in a group scenario? what are you going to play? dps? lets say hypothetical you have a open world build crafted arround staying alive and getting might. what does your build accomplish in a group setting? your druid is getting your heals and 25 might forever. whats the point of playing your build then in a group?

    from what you said i do not believe in the slightest that you have any idea how group content works and why meta builds are played. but you said it yourself already in terms of meta:

    So that was the whole reasoning behind this post , I want to be able to play what I have build instead of playing the "crafting" game and focus on making new pieces or changing pieces etc.

    thats also one of the reasons why people play the meta. they know that they do not have to get more assassins pieces in because they get spotter from the druid and banners from the warrior. they know they do not need to take strengh runes because someone in the group is already dedicated to that and generates enough might. the chrono knows he can drop the alacrity well because they have a 10 man alacrity renegade in the group. that the beauty of snowcrows for example. all builds are made in such a way that you just have to check: do i have banners? do i have spotter. check check. i know i have 100% critchance. i miss spotter? oh gotta grab the precision food and i have 100% critchance to the point without overcapping anything.

    ...if you say, okay my build can get 25x might up on a group and thats my job now and find a group which takes you in...fine, you are doing your job. if you say you have a off meta healer build which does the job...fine. we have many off meta healers which can used alongside a druid. rev healer, necro healer, tempest healer, engi healer are just a few examples. i bet my kitten you could do a meme shoutheal warrior and be good enough with that. as long as you do your job.

    what needs to be covered by the group: 100% boonuptime of at least 25x might, fury, quickness and alacrity. preferably regeneration and protection, swiftness is just always there.
    what needs to be covered on self on a dps build: 100% critchance on a power build and 100% condition duration of the main condition(s) you put out.
    on a dps builds there is no way on: "hmm, i gotta build defense because i get damage." that does simply not exist in group content...basically no way arround the main damage stats of berserker / assassins or vipers with a bit of grieving / sinister.

    so whatever you do, keep in mind you are playing group content and you are performing a single role, not multiple. also get arcdps and on the training golem in the aerodrome.
    chances are whatever you are doing right now and think its right: its kitten in organized content and does not work. why are those chances high? because you posted this topic. if you would understand the topic at hand, you wouldn't post it but already do your own (somewhat good) builds.

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭

    @skarpak.8594 said:
    on a dps builds there is no way on: "hmm, i gotta build defense because i get damage." that does simply not exist in group content...basically no way arround the main damage stats of berserker / assassins or vipers with a bit of grieving / sinister.

    Actually condi is often quite lenient about that. Condi weapons generally have low power damage co-efficient and condi and power traits are usually mutually exclusive. On top of that, condi builds have pretty much 0 ferocity boosts so even their already low power damage doesn't get boosted much even if you capped crit rate. Condibuilds generally do 80-85% condi and 15-20% power damage and due to aforementioned reasons, using carrion's instead of viper's isn't much dps loss on classes that specialize in 1-2 condis, condi FB as easiest example as it doesn't have icd-less "condi on crit" - trait either.
    Also, power reaper can take Decimate Defenses instead of Soul Eater for very minimal dps loss while making it possible to run almost full Valkyrie stuff for 30k+ health pool. DH also overcaps crit rate a bit so it can take some valkyrie pieces in some situations. Same with power rene.

    so whatever you do, keep in mind you are playing group content and you are performing a single role, not multiple.

    Actually, sometimes you can run alternative specialized multirole builds in off-meta comps.
    For ex. Kitty personally likes tanking on 10-target mightbot power banner warrior (by using stuff to get to 1151 toughness if there's spiritbeast present) and carrying squads with Blood Magic barrierbot condi (epi) scourge.

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2020

    Depends on how you define roles. The tank position already comes with the side requirement of providing additonal benefits to the group. The very idea behind the Chrono Tank was and continues to be their ability to tank well, and kitten out boons while doing so. Thus the tank role pretty much includes giving boons and healing/some personal DPS as their second and possibly third tasks. Not doing so would be a huge waste.

    There are a lot of options these days with all of the buffs and nerfs. People are able to get creative if they refuse or aren't able to play the META for whatever reasons. Just do not be the guy that intends to play a tank that does absolutely nothing but tank (and possibly heal themselves) because that would certainly be an far inferior build.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • That's one of my biggest gripes with this game. If your profession and build isn't meta then you don't get to raid

    Other mmos: All classes can raid as long as you're well geared, have good dps/heals.

    GW2: Can only raid if your class and build are part of the meta.

  • Carcharoth Lucian.1378Carcharoth Lucian.1378 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2020

    @Magnedeus.4713 said:
    That's one of my biggest gripes with this game. If your profession and build isn't meta then you don't get to raid

    Other mmos: All classes can raid as long as you're well geared, have good dps/heals.

    GW2: Can only raid if your class and build are part of the meta.

    Not really, like many others said here (and in others similar posts), if you can fullfil the role you choose to take, ppl will never look at your gear/build (in pug at least).

    In others MMO, you are more limited in gears stats and builds per class so you can't really mess up (even if you want to).

    Carcharoth Lucian/Mini Chibii
    Ruin of Surmia world
    PvE : [CdL] Les Chasseurs De Légendes
    WvW : [MIMs] Mobile Ingénieuse Et Marteau

  • @Magnedeus.4713 said:
    That's one of my biggest gripes with this game. If your profession and build isn't meta then you don't get to raid

    Other mmos: All classes can raid as long as you're well geared, have good dps/heals.

    GW2: Can only raid if your class and build are part of the meta.

    Let's assume SnowCrows defines the meta...
    I'd really like to see the %-number of groups playing the suggested team composition for Matthias.

    Group1: Condi Weaver, Condi BS, Condi BS, Condi Banner BS
    Group2: Condi Soulbeast, Power Holo
    Group3: Condi Alacrity Renegade
    Group4: Condi Alacrity Renegade
    Group5: Condi Mirage
    Group6: Power Boon Daredevil

    I bet you'll only see this in hardcore speedrun statics. In Pugs you'll not even see the Boon Daredevil all the time and imo this class is THE core of the Matthias meta composition.

  • Sykper.6583Sykper.6583 Member ✭✭✭

    @Magnedeus.4713 said:
    That's one of my biggest gripes with this game. If your profession and build isn't meta then you don't get to raid

    Other mmos: All classes can raid as long as you're well geared, have good dps/heals.

    GW2: Can only raid if your class and build are part of the meta.

    Other MMOs have classes hard-locked into a particular Role.
    FF14 for example has classes that are literally unable to queue for a position they aren't, a Bard cannot be a 'Tank' it has to be a 'DPS'.
    And the stats are normalized so that you can't get 'Tank' stats on Bard gear, it's nigh impossible to mess up stats or role.

    GW2 at least allows you to attempt to build something that's off-meta, and as others have said you got to prove it works, and you have to prove to 9 others that you are worth to take along, it's a team effort.

  • zombyturtle.5980zombyturtle.5980 Member ✭✭✭

    @Magnedeus.4713 said:
    That's one of my biggest gripes with this game. If your profession and build isn't meta then you don't get to raid

    Other mmos: All classes can raid as long as you're well geared, have good dps/heals.

    GW2: Can only raid if your class and build are part of the meta.

    Any class can raid in gw2 as long as its well geared and gives decent dps or heals. Problem is gw2 has such a big variety of stats, and 90% of them are useless in PVE, so most peoples custom made builds will NOT have good dps or heals. Only hardcore 500LI+ speedclears demand full meta builds. Average pug will be happy to take any off meta so long as it does its job.
    If you do choose to run a custom build, you better be prepared to play well though, so the squad can see you are fulfilling your role. Raid community has lost all trust for play how you want builds due to so many 2k toughness , 3kdps players joining.

  • Hyrai.8720Hyrai.8720 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2020

    Here's the experience I made with players who are not willing to adapt their builds:
    Theres a community-organized raiding event once a week where everybody is welcome.
    Of course you have newbies joining every now and then who simply have 0 idea how to gear up etc., which is perfectly fine. We are happy to explain it to them and see them coming back and improving over time.

    But recently we had a heal firebrand on full minstrel gear joining on a regular basis. One thing you might notice now: a heal firebrand on minstrel gear? Minstrel = lots of toughness. Lots of toughness = tank on bosses like VG etc.
    He explicitly said he wants to play healer, not tank. But he also isnt willing to change his stats.
    So in the end he forced the tank to change his build in order to get more toughness than him.
    Every. single. week. this guy joins and forces other players to change their builds just so he doesnt have to.

    Whats the conclusion of this?
    Running off-meta builds because you "dont want to change your stats every 2 weeks" often means that another player will have to change his stats.
    Lucky for you most raiders have legendary gear which makes it easier to swap stats. But the point still stands: If you dont want to adapt to the group, the group will have to adapt to you. Thats pretty selfish, isnt it?

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hyrai.8720 said:
    But recently we had a heal firebrand on full minstrel gear joining on a regular basis. One thing you might notice now: a heal firebrand on minstrel gear? Minstrel = lots of toughness. Lots of toughness = tank on bosses like VG etc.

    Lucky he was at least on minstrel. Imagine it had been cleric gear? Then have the entire discussion of how boon duration is needed/recommended on healers and having to explain to someone that basically their entire gearing was useless... I've had that one before, as I'm sure many experienced raiders have had. :s

    Still nice of others to accommodate and adjust in this case. That's not always as easily possible.

    @Hyrai.8720 said:
    Of course you have newbies joining every now and then who simply have 0 idea how to gear up etc., which is perfectly fine. We are happy to explain it to them and see them coming back and improving over time.

    Yeah, seeing others improve and enjoy the content is one of the reasons helping can be rewarding. Always nice to see new players become more proficient and the joy when they clear a boss for the first time for example. :+1: