Remove OR change Trapper Rune — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Remove OR change Trapper Rune

NorthernRedStar.3054NorthernRedStar.3054 Member ✭✭✭✭

Promotes low risk / high reward gameplay. 'Nuff said.

<1

Comments

  • Caine.8204Caine.8204 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2020

    just remove all the runes, amulets, and sigils tbh. we're about 75% of the way there anyway.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just change the stats it provides to something useless like concentration.

    This way they have to sacrefice alot of stats for the effect.

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    Lol. Ok. Remove all access to stealth across all classes and we are gucci.

    Forum in 1 word

  • NorthernRedStar.3054NorthernRedStar.3054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    Lol. Ok. Remove all access to stealth across all classes and we are gucci.

    I am not against toning down stealth in general, but that was not the point of this thread, and I feel like trapper rune is a bigger issue than class-specific stealth mechanics at the moment.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    Just change the stats it provides to something useless like concentration.

    This way they have to sacrefice alot of stats for the effect.

    They already sacrifice a lot of stats to use this rune, it's condi damage on a power build.

  • aelska.4609aelska.4609 Member ✭✭✭

    If I die against trapper rune build, i'll never tell "this thing is so overpowered, please nerf". I will just hate myself for dying against that.
    But everytime I see someone running a trapper rune, I can't stop myself from thinking "Wow. You definitely need a master degree in idiotism to come up with such a design for a rune."
    Bad job, please rework.

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd actually have it see some quality of life instead:

    • Change major bonus to 175 vitality and minor bonus to 100 concentration.
    • Change 6th bonus to 10 sec swiftness and +25% movement speed.

    It'll be a defensive option, giving much needed mobility to core professions (and some elites) yet benefiting the trap skill type (thief/dragonhunter) to stack reasonable durations of swiftness since they both lack high uptime movement speed increase traits (except daredevil).

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thief doesn't have traps anymore.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It was said before and should be said again, add a cooldown on the stealth. Simple fix. There is no commitment otherwise.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    Just change the stats it provides to something useless like concentration.

    This way they have to sacrefice alot of stats for the effect.

    They already sacrifice a lot of stats to use this rune, it's condi damage on a power build.

    DH puts out enough burn with the F1 passiv procs that the condi dmg is not wasted that much.

    the increase is about 30 raw dmg per proc, and power dh uses burst dmg anyway so totally wasted

    for burn dh its very good rune though (solely carries build)

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2020

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    Just change the stats it provides to something useless like concentration.

    This way they have to sacrefice alot of stats for the effect.

    They already sacrifice a lot of stats to use this rune, it's condi damage on a power build.

    DH puts out enough burn with the F1 passiv procs that the condi dmg is not wasted that much.

    For power trapper? Absolutely not.

  • mes.4607mes.4607 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I faced a trapper DH last night. OMG, lol!

  • Wisty.4135Wisty.4135 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2020

    I find the superspeed and stealth to be... out of place for what the rune is supposed to do. I'd like to see it be more directly synergistic with traps themselves beyond "take this one very specific skill type to cosplay being the best (thief) class for a few seconds!"

    I'd think vitality/toughness, a damage stat minor and a T6 perk of .. say... Traps immobing on activation (with a reasonable ICD) would fit much better you're trapping... Not assassinating... But that's just me.

    Edit: yeah, I realize how disgusting that would be for classes like meme-druid that already have a disgusting amount of immob uptime. You'd ideally not want it to be something oppressive, but also not utterly useless as a T6... But what that is would require a lot of balancing, testing and feedback.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They just need to pull the Stealth from that rune.
    (6) already gives Superspeed. Why should it need to provide Stealth as well?
    I don't think they should change the stat boni though. Without the stealth, it's a fine rune for condi trapper Rangers.

  • NorthernRedStar.3054NorthernRedStar.3054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    They just need to pull the Stealth from that rune.
    (6) already gives Superspeed. Why should it need to provide Stealth as well?
    I don't think they should change the stat boni though. Without the stealth, it's a fine rune for condi trapper Rangers.

    It gives two extremely valuable defensive boons (stealth and superspeed) to classes that weren't balanced with stealth and superspeed in mind.

    Imagine if thief was a heavy armor class.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    They just need to pull the Stealth from that rune.
    (6) already gives Superspeed. Why should it need to provide Stealth as well?
    I don't think they should change the stat boni though. Without the stealth, it's a fine rune for condi trapper Rangers.

    Ranger doesn't deserve to have stealth at all.

  • NorthernRedStar.3054NorthernRedStar.3054 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2020

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    They just need to pull the Stealth from that rune.
    (6) already gives Superspeed. Why should it need to provide Stealth as well?
    I don't think they should change the stat boni though. Without the stealth, it's a fine rune for condi trapper Rangers.

    Ranger doesn't deserve to have stealth at all.

    I think Hunter's Shot is fair - and deserves to remain, if and when they rework / revert Protect Me! As sad as it is, ranger requires its current form and WS to survive the current meta. If not, revenant is just flatout better in every way. Holo kinda already is.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
    I think Hunter's Shot is fair - and deserves to remain, if and when they rework / revert Protect Me!

    I'm all for removing the Stealth from Longbow as well.
    They ought to make it a disengage like on Shortbow.

    If not, revenant is just flatout better in every way. Holo kinda already is.

    Other professions over-performing is no justification for Ranger to have too much as well.

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    Ranger doesn't deserve to have stealth at all.

    I'd argue stealth should be removed from PvP entirely, or at least instantly reveal people (to make use of Thief traits).

  • @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
    Promotes low risk / high reward gameplay. 'Nuff said.

    Idk, I don't think dragonhunter is really strong atm to be honest. Don't mind if they remove trapper, but they need to rework the spec if they do. (I don't play it atm, I just play against.)

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    To be inline with the rest of the runes it only should give one of the two bonuses, most of the runes give one type of boon on heal or elite used or have good enough but minor effect like the soldier rune, this one gives stealth and super speed probably some of the best effects in the game.

  • What is this? Unranked PvP in vanilla HoT? People die to trapper DH now?

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    Ranger doesn't deserve to have stealth at all.

    I'd argue stealth should be removed from PvP entirely, or at least instantly reveal people (to make use of Thief traits).

    Ah yes, the mechanic a whole class is based around should be removed. This forum gets worse every day.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Change stealth and superspeed to reveal and cripple on trap activation maybe? That would make more sense imo.

  • what about ranger trapper? no point in playing the build without the trapper rune.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ledernierrempart.6871 said:
    what about ranger trapper? no point in playing the build without the trapper rune.

    If it's a build primarily depending on the Stealth part of the rune, I'd happily see it die.

  • @Shao.7236 said:
    It was said before and should be said again, add a cooldown on the stealth. Simple fix. There is no commitment otherwise.

    This might actually be the best fix I've ever read for it

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2020

    @Caine.8204 said:
    just remove all the runes, amulets, and sigils tbh. we're about 75% of the way there anyway.

    75% of the runes and amulet and sigils are not use anyway, and when used it's only for cancerous builds that serve no other purpose but easy carry people to gold 3..i'd like to see those removed.

    like sage, i can't think of a sage build that's not cancer.

  • Change stealth across the board to be -66% movement speed.

  • Make the rune only give one of the two main effects, and I say make it stealth but make stealth not stack so you can't just drop a ton of traps at once for prolonged stealth. While we're at it, make stealth function like superspeed and not stack duration, turn Shadow Refuge into one long stealth pulse since you can't leave the AoE anyway.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Wisty.4135 said:
    I find the superspeed and stealth to be... out of place for what the rune is supposed to do. I'd like to see it be more directly synergistic with traps themselves beyond "take this one very specific skill type to cosplay being the best (thief) class for a few seconds!"

    I'd think vitality/toughness, a damage stat minor and a T6 perk of .. say... Traps immobing on activation (with a reasonable ICD) would fit much better you're trapping... Not assassinating... But that's just me.

    Edit: yeah, I realize how disgusting that would be for classes like meme-druid that already have a disgusting amount of immob uptime. You'd ideally not want it to be something oppressive, but also not utterly useless as a T6... But what that is would require a lot of balancing, testing and feedback.

    0,25s immob without icd could be reasonable

  • Caine.8204Caine.8204 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 26, 2020

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Caine.8204 said:
    just remove all the runes, amulets, and sigils tbh. we're about 75% of the way there anyway.

    75% of the runes and amulet and sigils are not use anyway, and when used it's only for cancerous builds that serve no other purpose but easy carry people to gold 3..i'd like to see those removed.

    like sage, i can't think of a sage build that's not cancer.

    as a previous sagebrand main, i take offense to this.

    what's wrong about full healing myself while i kill 3 people in a stack with burns and immob? balanced if you ask me.

    it needed a nerf, but they took me out and shot me. RIP sagebrand 2018-2020

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just remove condi damage from the game, not only the rune.

    Also stealth.

    These are the 2 things that I die from and the rune combines them.

    Condi and stealth are the 2 things that carry bad players in g3-p1/2

    My ideology is like the rest of the forum - whatever kills me must be nerfed so I can feel special.

    Wishlist:
    Improve GW2 performance. Add genuine DX12 support.

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Caine.8204 said:
    just remove all the runes, amulets, and sigils tbh. we're about 75% of the way there anyway.

    75% of the runes and amulet and sigils are not use anyway, and when used it's only for cancerous builds that serve no other purpose but easy carry people to gold 3..i'd like to see those removed.

    like sage, i can't think of a sage build that's not cancer.

    I know, right! Same for those annoying Berserker / Marauder / Mender's amulets with power damage - cancerous builds all over!

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 27, 2020

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The real issue is that the way stealth in GW2 works is poorly designed. It's way too much of a get out of jail free card, and too easily sets up burst combos. But instead of reworking it Anet has opted to nerf the classes that have access to it in many other ways. Like thief, it seems every other patch thief damage gets nerfed in some ridiculous and unnecessary fashion. Nerfing around the bad mechanics instead of fixing them is not the right move, and until the balance team finally accepts this fact the game will continue to bleed players.

    This is a common complaint, seen it countless times. I haven't seen an idea for a different kind of stealth that could work though. Some people intend to copy-paste stealth from other games(even though the combat systems are very very different), some suggest things that would make stealth useless(break on taking damage, being slightly visible etc) or straight up advocate for deletion.
    Do you have an idea for another iteration of stealth that could work in this combat system?

  • Wisty.4135Wisty.4135 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    0,25s immob without icd could be reasonable

    See, it sounds reasonable but that's the kind of thing that would NEED to be tested and iterated on. Not "here's four months of an awful unfun rune to play against!" But maybe a 2 week test cycle where changes are hard looked at and actually evaluated and adjusted/reverted if needed.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Wisty.4135 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    0,25s immob without icd could be reasonable

    See, it sounds reasonable but that's the kind of thing that would NEED to be tested and iterated on. Not "here's four months of an awful unfun rune to play against!" But maybe a 2 week test cycle where changes are hard looked at and actually evaluated and adjusted/reverted if needed.

    ofc, mb 0,25s would be too short since it doesnt last long enough to get you even 1 pulse, or mb its too strong cuz you can use it to set up strong skills.
    mb 0,5s is better or mb its unhealthy in general

  • @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    They just need to pull the Stealth from that rune.
    (6) already gives Superspeed. Why should it need to provide Stealth as well?
    I don't think they should change the stat boni though. Without the stealth, it's a fine rune for condi trapper Rangers.

    It gives two extremely valuable defensive boons (stealth and superspeed) to classes that weren't balanced with stealth and superspeed in mind.

    Imagine if thief was a heavy armor class.

    Revenants: nervous sweating

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2020

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The real issue is that the way stealth in GW2 works is poorly designed. It's way too much of a get out of jail free card, and too easily sets up burst combos. But instead of reworking it Anet has opted to nerf the classes that have access to it in many other ways. Like thief, it seems every other patch thief damage gets nerfed in some ridiculous and unnecessary fashion. Nerfing around the bad mechanics instead of fixing them is not the right move, and until the balance team finally accepts this fact the game will continue to bleed players.

    This is a common complaint, seen it countless times. I haven't seen an idea for a different kind of stealth that could work though. Some people intend to copy-paste stealth from other games(even though the combat systems are very very different), some suggest things that would make stealth useless(break on taking damage, being slightly visible etc) or straight up advocate for deletion.
    Do you have an idea for another iteration of stealth that could work in this combat system?

    Just about any of the systems of how stealth works from other games would be better than GW2.

    But if you want something specific, the biggest thing that should have been done a very long time ago is reworking stealth to reveal on the cast of an offensive ability, rather than on hit. Reveal on hit as a stealth mechanic results in a lot of mechanics that are seriously lacking in counterplay. The most obvious example is the relation to evades/blocks - if a player is stealthed, and attacks someone who is blocking, they don't unstealth from this because reveal on hit only reveals upon damage calculation ( which doesn't happen if an attack misses obviously ), giving them a chance to reapply stealth before the "revealed" debuff is applied to them. So instead of a player being punished for their missplay, they are actually rewarded for it and can simply recuperate. This leads to a repetitive playstyle of:

    "1. Stealth attack combo, 2. If you screwed up, reset the fight and go back to step 1".

    'Reveal on hit' just in general promotes uninteractive and unskillful gameplay, which is why most games that have stealth in them do not use this system, or at the very least they make it so you still get revealed if your attack misses. Not revealing for a missed attack is just trash game design.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Being hit should also reveal you imo.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Maybe we should just remove all runes from PvP. lol

  • ShadowCatz.8437ShadowCatz.8437 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2020

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Change stealth and superspeed to reveal and cripple on trap activation maybe? That would make more sense imo.

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Change stealth and superspeed to reveal and cripple on trap activation maybe? That would make more sense imo.

    Why not have an auto AFK kill mechanism for all trapper skills while we are at it?

    Really stupid thread...for a Ranger/Soulbeast to even be able to place a trap one have to stand on it (you can't aim traps which means player need to be on top or close to target), you can not control where i should be placed so there is a need for high mobility to get out out of danger and to be in stealth to not get interrupted/CCed in place for melee based professions. You can only have one trap active at time. Really how is that so over powered that a rune that provide a short term stealth that vanish the second traps trigger or player take damage need to be deleted?

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trap

    Not much of a brain here I see...here is a list of skills that give Reaveled: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

    Maybe use that before suggestion to delete the only Rune that actually have been designed for Traps, it is also the only Rune that offer both Condition Damage (+175) and Condition Duration (+15%) which is for all type of condition, without being tied to a specific condition (this means soft CC, Vulnerability and Blind among other also get a small increase in duration).

    Neither Ranger/Soulbeast or Guardian/DH are really OP with only access to traps. If there is a problem then it is with the composition of team that your are facing. Nobody actually lock down that player using this rune and prevent him or she to get into stealth, or just don't stand in the red circle. With this rune you know that player only have a speed increase for 3 sec (as other runes offer permanent 25% movement speed) and when they get invisible they are also placing a trap. Use pet, minion or any other auto detecting mechanic in game and this rune get very fast useless. Either it will track that player or it will trigger trap in which player can not hide again without using another trap (and those skills do have a cool down after all).

    And....when one take a point being in stealth is a disadvantage as you have to wait until you are unstealthed again.

  • Tinkerer.2167Tinkerer.2167 Member ✭✭
    edited July 30, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @ledernierrempart.6871 said:
    what about ranger trapper? no point in playing the build without the trapper rune.

    If it's a build primarily depending on the Stealth part of the rune, I'd happily see it die.

    i mean by that logic you'd be in favor of getting rid of rune of resistance, speed, lynx, sanctuary ... builds rely on them. trappers dont NEED rune of the trapper, but it helps for the stealth. im in favor of removing trapper runes but your logic for removing it doesn't make sense.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2020

    @Tinkerer.2167 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @ledernierrempart.6871 said:
    what about ranger trapper? no point in playing the build without the trapper rune.

    If it's a build primarily depending on the Stealth part of the rune, I'd happily see it die.

    i mean by that logic you'd be in favor of getting rid of rune of resistance, speed, lynx, sanctuary ... builds rely on them. trappers dont NEED rune of the trapper, but it helps for the stealth. im in favor of removing trapper runes but your logic for removing it doesn't make sense.

    Do you even remember the main difference between Stealth and other things?
    The important factor that makes the difference between player versus player and not just player hitting character model?
    Being able to see the enemy is the key for counterplay.
    Stealth in its current iteration is too strong for its lack of counterplay.
    This game needs less Stealth.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2020

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The real issue is that the way stealth in GW2 works is poorly designed. It's way too much of a get out of jail free card, and too easily sets up burst combos. But instead of reworking it Anet has opted to nerf the classes that have access to it in many other ways. Like thief, it seems every other patch thief damage gets nerfed in some ridiculous and unnecessary fashion. Nerfing around the bad mechanics instead of fixing them is not the right move, and until the balance team finally accepts this fact the game will continue to bleed players.

    This is a common complaint, seen it countless times. I haven't seen an idea for a different kind of stealth that could work though. Some people intend to copy-paste stealth from other games(even though the combat systems are very very different), some suggest things that would make stealth useless(break on taking damage, being slightly visible etc) or straight up advocate for deletion.
    Do you have an idea for another iteration of stealth that could work in this combat system?

    Just about any of the systems of how stealth works from other games would be better than GW2.

    But if you want something specific, the biggest thing that should have been done a very long time ago is reworking stealth to reveal on the cast of an offensive ability, rather than on hit. Reveal on hit as a stealth mechanic results in a lot of mechanics that are seriously lacking in counterplay. The most obvious example is the relation to evades/blocks - if a player is stealthed, and attacks someone who is blocking, they don't unstealth from this because reveal on hit only reveals upon damage calculation ( which doesn't happen if an attack misses obviously ), giving them a chance to reapply stealth before the "revealed" debuff is applied to them. So instead of a player being punished for their missplay, they are actually rewarded for it and can simply recuperate. This leads to a repetitive playstyle of:

    "1. Stealth attack combo, 2. If you screwed up, reset the fight and go back to step 1".

    'Reveal on hit' just in general promotes uninteractive and unskillful gameplay, which is why most games that have stealth in them do not use this system, or at the very least they make it so you still get revealed if your attack misses. Not revealing for a missed attack is just trash game design.

    Meh... so you don't have anything I haven't seen yet either. Also you think having invested into stealth, missing a stealth attack(or a whole burst if we're talking shatter mesmer)and watching it go on a cooldown (meaning your stealth drops without you achiveing anything) isn't punishment. It's a reward. LoL.

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    Being hit should also reveal you imo.

    Applying stealth should instakill you imo. Look at me being reasonable!

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭

    only if they remove rune of speed first