Schuld Scrapper be reworked to Support elit providing Quickness? v2.0

Hi after discussion with some ppl on other topic, i decided that insted 1-2 small edits, Scrapper needs bigger rework to make it work and be more fun to play it, also needed more in end game content.

Rightht now biggest Scrapper problem is that his half support, and half tank,because of it Scrapper have problems describing his role in party or squad, as both roles same as tank or support suck cuz no one need half tank, half support, thay prefer 1 class

Main problem of tank traits are that them only benefiting Scrapper, not his team, and tanks are much no need in current contentMain problem of Support traits (superspeed) are not give inaf good value to be on support role

Thx to binding his role to support, i reworked his tank traits around it to make them benefiting your team using your tanknesSame i reworked bit his boon traits, that from now you will have needed boons, that will alow you be used as support role more often

Here is what i teorycrafted, in same time i invite you to discuse that :)Do you like that idea?, have you any questions? or maybe you have better ideas?

Left your comment bellow, so maybe i can edit curent ideas to make them work even better :)

That rework is made by Scrapper main, to Scrapper mains with pashion and love that thay can't use that class in end game, only in wvw

Here is how i categorized Scrapper new traits :

Green-> Support Tank traits [Grant barrier, redirect dmg to you, Increst barrier you grant]Orange->Support boon traits [Grant Quickness, Grant Superspeed, Grant Stability+Superspeed]Red -> DPS traits [Give stab+might to you, give +5% dmg, give Quickness to you and 200power]

Now you grant barrier to your team, changed also symbol and name to match that trait better

This will be your main sorce of team Quickness

Now your wells grant you stab to help stack might on you

Now your gyro and wells also grand you and your team swifness, this is more balanced for core trait, i also moved superspeed on other trait to make it more of choice

Now you got dmg redirection to you insted, it will alow you to help your team much better, also save your life if your health drop too much becose of dmg you take

becase i took superspeed from wells, i puted superspeed here, your heal tool belt skill grant aoe superspeed too

Moved +5% dmg on Quickness

Becase you take much more dmg with Damage Dumpster trait i incrested Bairrers to 20% same as that increst Barriers you grant with Recovery MatrixOn top of that i made id more of "adaptive" think, that your armor adapt to condi dmg overtime and grant small bonus to you and your team after reaching max stack treschold

Now you grant superspeed and Stab to your team as well

Aplied Force trait i left not changed

What you think about all that changes?

No, it shouldn't.If any Rework, Scrapper should increase its focus on CC and defence.It was never meant as an offensive support and I think it should never become one.

Also, Hammers being slow weapon doesn't fit with Quickness. The Elite Spec weapon would need to be replaced with something swifter.But at this point, you might as well make a completely new elite spec, focussing on offensive support.

We could have an Engineer with a theme focussing on electricity and have it stack Weakness and Vulnerability on enemies, while giving allies Quickness.

No, it shouldn't.

If any Rework, Scrapper should increase its focus on CC and defence.

It was never meant as an offensive support and I think it should never become one.

You puting bariers on your teamYou can aegis your teamYou can take dmg of your team on youYou can give your team auras that are pure defensive giving togheter -30% condi, tornment and retaliationYou can control enemys with daze, same as Hammer have some daze and stunYou can stab your team, and remove stab from enemys

I don't added anythink that increst dmg of your team until you mean Quickness, but that boon is nesesary to fit role of supportAlternative to Quickness can be Alacrity, but that boon not match theme like Quickness do with superspeed and swifness

Also, Hammers being slow weapon doesn't fit with Quickness. The Elite Spec weapon would need to be replaced with something swifter.

I think it's ok how it is right now having a role of Support in mind, you hit slower, and 2/3 traits not incresting any dmg for you until you go pure on dps, but that resulting that you losing support abilitis, and if you take 1 of support traits if your dps you losing big part of dmg like 15% dmg modificators, 200+ power and stacking might on stab

Your more of monk with Hammer that hit faster and stronger with evry strike, and geting more defence with evry hit taken on you (for dmg it's barrier, for condi dmg it's adaptive armor)More of Technology Monk :D

Should Scrapper be reworked into a [full] Support?

Probably. Unless they fix the fundamental flaw in the game that makes Tank based E-Specs totally useless because Tanking is totally useless outside of Raids (Which don't require much more than access to Blocks (I.e. A shield) and a functioning dodge button) and PvP (Where incidentally it's more about having sustain via healing or other such methods of retaining life (I.e. Shroud) than using traits that provide defence)

Hence why every single Tank E-Spec currently is not used as a Tank and instead relies entirely on its secondary role (Daredevil and Spellbreaker both play as DPS, Scrapper and Herald both play as Support) while the builds that ARE used as Tanks are not E-Specs with a Tank role (Chrono is used as a Tank in PvE, Core Necro is used as a Tank in PvP) with exception of Herald playing as a Tank in PvP.

Though, it'd be hard to actually fix the flaw in the game that makes Tank specs useless. Which is the fact that in PvE, you have Blocks and Evades which negate 100% damage so you don't need extra Barrier/Damage Reduction/Health from a Tank spec because you literally are able to negate any attack without that stuff. While in PvP the issue is that Conditions simply bypass Damage Reductions (While Herald can function because Mallyx farts out Resistance which provides Condi immunity...) and extra health often simply puts you on to the same level as Condi builds running Carrion stats (Which is actually what the "Tank" builds in PvP usually opt for anyway... That or Sage for extra healing)

So, in lieu of overhauling the entire game to make Tank specs actually worthwhile, it'd be easier to simply rework the specs into alternate roles;

Scrapper: Tank/Support > Support/DPSDaredevil: Tank/DPS > DPSSpellbreaker: Tank/DPS > DPS/SupportHerald: Tank/Support > Support/DPS

@Fueki.4753 said:Also, Hammers being slow weapon doesn't fit with Quickness. The Elite Spec weapon would need to be replaced with something swifter.

To be fair, it's a ROCKET POWERED HAMMER. Rocket powered things tend to be fast.

Not to mention that current Scrapper already has a theme of Quickness, Applied Force providing self-Quickness and bonus power for having Quickness.

@"Taril.8619" said:Should Scrapper be reworked into a [full] Support?

Probably. Unless they fix the fundamental flaw in the game that makes Tank based E-Specs totally useless because Tanking is totally useless outside of Raids (Which don't require much more than access to Blocks (I.e. A shield) and a functioning dodge button) and PvP (Where incidentally it's more about having sustain via healing or other such methods of retaining life (I.e. Shroud) than using traits that provide defence)

Hence why every single Tank E-Spec currently is not used as a Tank and instead relies entirely on its secondary role (Daredevil and Spellbreaker both play as DPS, Scrapper and Herald both play as Support) while the builds that ARE used as Tanks are not E-Specs with a Tank role (Chrono is used as a Tank in PvE, Core Necro is used as a Tank in PvP) with exception of Herald playing as a Tank in PvP.

Though, it'd be hard to actually fix the flaw in the game that makes Tank specs useless. Which is the fact that in PvE, you have Blocks and Evades which negate 100% damage so you don't need extra Barrier/Damage Reduction/Health from a Tank spec because you literally are able to negate any attack without that stuff. While in PvP the issue is that Conditions simply bypass Damage Reductions (While Herald can function because Mallyx farts out Resistance which provides Condi immunity...) and extra health often simply puts you on to the same level as Condi builds running Carrion stats (Which is actually what the "Tank" builds in PvP usually opt for anyway... That or Sage for extra healing)

So, in lieu of overhauling the entire game to make Tank specs actually worthwhile, it'd be easier to simply rework the specs into alternate roles;

Scrapper: Tank/Support > Support/DPSDaredevil: Tank/DPS > DPSSpellbreaker: Tank/DPS > DPS/SupportHerald: Tank/Support > Support/DPS

The problem with reworking the existing tank specs into different roles is that they will compete with other elite specs instead of having their own niches.For example, reworking daredevil into a dps class when thief already has deadeye for that niche and the class doesn't really need more melee damage.

And keep in mind that there is a third set of elite specs coming most likely when the expansion drops. One more spec that will compete with these e-specs. If we reduce the roles elite specs are filling to 2 roles (dps and support), then some elite specs will totally extinct and just the option which does the job better will find use.

The approach to make tanks actually needed in PvE is the healthier approach for the game as a whole.Personally, I prefer to keep scrapper as a tank elite spec and give us a true support elite spec with the next expansion.

To be fair, it's a ROCKET POWERED HAMMER. Rocket powered things tend to be fast.Not to mention that current Scrapper already has a theme of Quickness, Applied Force providing self-Quickness and bonus power for having Quickness.

Personally, I prefer to keep scrapper as a tank elite spec

@Kodama.6453Me too, but like it was mentionet before selfish tanks are not much needed

So insted i reworked scrapper tank traits that not only make scrapper tanky but also benefiting your team,So i think players like you who prefer be more of kind tank than sup will be happy using all upper traits and still be valuabe to team :)

a true support elite spec with the next expansion.

True, evrythink is more interesing when it's unknowBut look on that with that wayAfter that rework, Scrapper will be Defensive boon support

That not closing a way to make as 3 elit Ofeensive support that insted of Quickness, he gona buff Alacrity, and insted of protecting team, will temporary increst pover dmg or condi dmg or add other effects that increst a dmg of team

Thats like win/win situation

@Kodama.6453 said:

@"Taril.8619" said:Should Scrapper be reworked into a [full] Support?

Probably. Unless they fix the fundamental flaw in the game that makes Tank based E-Specs totally useless because Tanking is totally useless outside of Raids (Which don't require much more than access to Blocks (I.e. A shield) and a functioning dodge button) and PvP (Where incidentally it's more about having sustain via healing or other such methods of retaining life (I.e. Shroud) than using traits that provide defence)

Hence why every single Tank E-Spec currently is not used as a Tank and instead relies entirely on its secondary role (Daredevil and Spellbreaker both play as DPS, Scrapper and Herald both play as Support) while the builds that

ARE

used as Tanks are not E-Specs with a Tank role (Chrono is used as a Tank in PvE, Core Necro is used as a Tank in PvP) with exception of Herald playing as a Tank in PvP.

Though, it'd be hard to actually fix the flaw in the game that makes Tank specs useless. Which is the fact that in PvE, you have Blocks and Evades which negate 100% damage so you don't need extra Barrier/Damage Reduction/Health from a Tank spec because you literally are able to negate any attack without that stuff. While in PvP the issue is that Conditions simply bypass Damage Reductions (While Herald can function because Mallyx farts out Resistance which provides Condi immunity...) and extra health often simply puts you on to the same level as Condi builds running Carrion stats (Which is actually what the "Tank" builds in PvP usually opt for anyway... That or Sage for extra healing)

So, in lieu of overhauling the entire game to make Tank specs actually worthwhile, it'd be easier to simply rework the specs into alternate roles;

Scrapper: Tank/Support > Support/DPSDaredevil: Tank/DPS > DPSSpellbreaker: Tank/DPS > DPS/SupportHerald: Tank/Support > Support/DPS

Though, this is already the case. With the likes of Daredevil, Spellbreaker and Herald competing with Deadeye, Berserker and Renegade for DPS (Unfavourably, outside Daredevil being more useful than Deadeye in Fractals due to having AoE damage with Staff as well as on certain bosses where breakbar damage is important)

Also, it highlights how terribly designed Thief E-Specs are when they all boil down to "Do more [Power] damage" as opposed to having any sort of nuance to them to differentiate them.

@Kodama.6453 said:And keep in mind that there is a third set of elite specs coming most likely when the expansion drops. One more spec that will compete with these e-specs. If we reduce the roles elite specs are filling to 2 roles (dps and support), then some elite specs will totally extinct and just the option which does the job better will find use.

That entirely depends on how they are balanced. It's very possible to have multiple specs share a role and be equally viable (For example, look at how Deadeye and Daredevil both function as DPS and both have places where they're best)

Not to mention there's also potential to split "DPS" and "Support" into multiple variants. I.e. Power DPS vs Condi DPS (See: Mirage vs Chrono, Reaper vs Scourge, Dragonhunter vs Firebrand) and Boonshare vs Healing. Which would allow similar but different roles between specs, so long as they avoid making "Do Everything" E-Specs.

@Kodama.6453 said:The approach to make tanks actually needed in PvE is the healthier approach for the game as a whole.

Maybe that's true.

The question is, how exactly could they do that?

Given that the basic premise that completely nullifies Tanks in PvE, is how powerful active defenses are. With Evades, Blocks and Aegis providing 100% damage reduction irregardless of stat usage. With also things like the downed state and thus ability to be picked up by allies preventing death contributing to the lack of need for Tanks (Especially in open world with metas and events getting zerged by tons of players allowing for plenty of opportunities to get revived)

Unless they completely trash active defenses, downed state, boons like Protection/Aegis/Resistance/Stability and healing (Both self heals as well as healer builds). Whilst also implementing a proper threat system into the game (In all areas of PvE, not just Raids/Strikes) and the necessary tools to enable interaction with such a system (Threat boosts, taunts, visual indicators of threat levels etc). Which would be necessary in order to get "Tanks" to be more viable in PvE.

Meanwhile, the alternative is just to say "Okay, guys, we dun goofed. Tanks don't work in our game" and then stop pushing "Tank Specs" and instead focus on making balanced DPS/Support instead (I.e. Stop just powercreeping on existing builds... Including making Core builds viable with E-Specs being the "Sidegrades" that change gameplay like how was mentioned upon their initial release...)

Meanwhile, the alternative is just to say "Okay, guys, we dun goofed. Tanks don't work in.

In term of Tank i mean that his dmg is at last 1/2 of dps

In term of reworked Scrapper you will :

a) protection boon -35%b) 20% redirect dmg on youc) 35% redirect dmg on you by bulwarkd) aoe -30% condi dmge) Aegis or Bariers

it's like -45-65% stabile with 80% temp (bulwark gyro)

@Taril.8619@"Kodama.6453"

Best roles for that are tanks are Support , or BS role as i not see why 1 class schold be that much favorized

Thats why i also as boonus changed Pinpoint Disctribution

Than insted of boons you run somethink like this :http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PejAIJlRwcYHsEWJWOP1tKA-e

And you will be nice Turret Slave also protecting your team

Maybe we culd rework other tank spec that way, than we no need Quickness or Alacracity anymore, as tanks will take BS role providing similar think and on top of that benefit team with tanknes like i did with my Scrapper rework

Scrapper is meta in WvW and superspeed is a very valuable contribution. Your original post needs a goal/problem statement, along with an executive summary (TLDR).

Why you want to change it is buried in the wall of text, but honestly I don't agree with the position the it's half tank, half support. There's a reason Minstrel's armor is half tank -- and it's not because people are actually looking for a tank or off-tank. The reason is you can't provide support when you're dead. Another way to look at it, if ANET release a new 3-stat configuration which was healing power (primary), concentration (secondary), and (secondary), nobody would pick it over minstrels.

I know this isn't a discussion about stats, I'm simply illustrating that support roles need to be tanky so the justification of "not pure support" isn't valid with regards to reworking superspeed. I rather enjoy the current play style, and there's some skill required as to when and how to apply superspeed to your party in WvW.

@"juno.1840" said:Scrapper is meta in WvW and superspeed is a very valuable contribution. Your original post needs a goal/problem statement, along with an executive summary (TLDR).

Why you want to change it is buried in the wall of text, but honestly I don't agree with the position the it's half tank, half support. There's a reason Minstrel's armor is half tank -- and it's not because people are actually looking for a tank or off-tank. The reason is you can't provide support when you're dead. Another way to look at it, if ANET release a new 3-stat configuration which was healing power (primary), concentration (secondary), and (secondary), nobody would pick it over minstrels.

I know this isn't a discussion about stats, I'm simply illustrating that support roles need to be tanky so the justification of "not pure support" isn't valid with regards to reworking superspeed. I rather enjoy the current play style, and there's some skill required as to when and how to apply superspeed to your party in WvW.

Scrapper is a tank spec. Anet has repeatedly stated that scrappers are supposed to be bruisers and another thing pointing at it: the used healing scrapper build has a dead grandmaster minor trait. Impact savant converts your strike damage into barrier, but that build doesn't deal any damage, they camp med kit mostly. Scrapper migrated into the support playstyle, just like other bruiser e-specs like daredevil have migrated into dps roles.

Because the tank playstyle is mostly not needed in this game. People usually just run support and dps builds and the specs designed as bruisers just migrate into any of these 2 roles so that they are actually used. Scrapper is taken because the gyros at least add some supportive value to the engineer class, which has just 2 support trait lines in core (inventions + alchemy). But if we would get an e-spec actually designed for supporting like druid or firebrand have been, people would immediately abandon scrapper.

Will need to look in more detail later, but one thing that's jumping out at me is that a daze with every gyro is a LOT of CC. Engineers in general and ESPECIALLY scrappers already have the potential to throw out some obnoxious CC if they build for it, and Blast Gyro is already part of that - letting them CC with every gyro might take that into the stratosphere.

@"juno.1840" said:Scrapper is meta in WvW and superspeed is a very valuable contribution. Your original post needs a goal/problem statement, along with an executive summary (TLDR).

Why you want to change it is buried in the wall of text, but honestly I don't agree with the position the it's half tank, half support. There's a reason Minstrel's armor is half tank -- and it's not because people are actually looking for a tank or off-tank. The reason is you can't provide support when you're dead. Another way to look at it, if ANET release a new 3-stat configuration which was healing power (primary), concentration (secondary), and (secondary), nobody would pick it over minstrels.

I know this isn't a discussion about stats, I'm simply illustrating that support roles need to be tanky so the justification of "not pure support" isn't valid with regards to reworking superspeed. I rather enjoy the current play style, and there's some skill required as to when and how to apply superspeed to your party in WvW.

Power, healing power, and concentration (Harrier's) is already meta for a lot of heal builds in PvE. So I don't think it'd be too farfetched for a similar set just with the HP stat first to also be used. Healing Power, Concentration, and Condition Damage might well see use with several healer builds if it was introduced, especially in raids which reward (or outright require) bringing condition damage.

In WvW, yeah, you need the extra durability.

Scrapper is meta in WvW and superspeed is a very valuable contribution. Your original post needs a goal/problem statement, along with an executive summary (TLDR).

You still have over 12s aoe superspeed after that rework if you chose boon support trait over tank trait

Asuming that you will use med kit + tools tree, it's 10s superspeed with 14s cd (even less with Alacrity)

Why you want to change it is buried in the wall of text, but honestly I don't agree with the position the it's half tank, half support. There's a reason Minstrel's armor is half tank -- and it's not because people are actually looking for a tank or off-tank.

what actualy i mean is, that class lack some mechanics to be needed support in end gameAnd if your tank, you not benefiting your team much like mesmer do

having this in mind yeh it's 1/2 tank, 1/2 sup, insted of 1 tank and/or 1 sup

So here that rework solving all that problems, look how i made the tank traits and boon traits

support roles need to be tanky so the justification of "not pure support" i

I agree with that, as support you need be more tankier, as if you die your whole team lose boons and mechanics that you offer

What my rework do is that you chosing about did you want be more tanky, or provid more and eazier boons, same you can mix it but ratcher optional think it's more of sacrifice on what you focus more

Depends what you expect from a support role for engineer:

• Cleanse conditions (alchemy already makes engineer best in the game due to boon conversion)
• Healing (med kit and inventions are already pretty strong, not highest burst but I'd argue highest sustained)
• Boons - do you plan to out-boon FB? support engi takes concentration for the condi->boon conversion.
• Utility - hard to beat what scrapper currently offers with projectile barrier, stealth, and damage reduction (and those are scrapper only right now)So arguing about the philosophical design of Scrapper is fun, but not really pertinent. What is pertinent is how the scrapper elite is currently used.

EDIT: this is getting a little off-track though. My original point was "don't get rid of superspeed on gyros" and "current support build on scrapper is meta".EDIT2: I started this post over an hour ago and lost track (RL work getting in the way lol), so by the time I posted it no longer fits in the current context. Probably just ignore this comment all together.

Depends what you expect from a support role for engineer:

You can give up tank traits to be more of boon support buffing perm Quickness (but that will need from you at last 50-75% boon duration gear, 100% if you can't cc any target, what is Minstriel gear as Healer, as you can stack up Quickness only with cc, Quickness from Superspeed you can't stack as it have 4s boon applificer cd, Alternative to Minstriel gear can be 50% Diviner for power dps/support)

in first tier you chosing light barrier+light cc vs Aegisin secound trait you chosing between superspeed/dmg redirection to you and 2s Distrortion (2s immune to dmg and condi)in last tier you chosing stronger cc + stab+ personal superspeed to buff Quickness vs 30% condi dmg reduction and Auras that will reduc -30% condi dmg from team and buff Retaliation/Tormnet

Cleanse conditions (alchemy already makes engineer best in the game due to boon conversion)

On top of that Scrapper will give -30% (around -25%) condi dmg with aoe Light+Dark aura

Healing (med kit and inventions are already pretty strong, not highest burst but I'd argue highest sustained)

Boons - do you plan to out-boon FB? support engi takes concentration for the condi->boon conversion.

Compare to FB, Scrapper will still can't remove stuns from team only prevent with stab

Same FB will still have Resistence boon, and more precisely aegis spam, scrapper need wait for final puls of gyro so it's more about timing and number of aegis is limited to how many wells you have

Utility - hard to beat what scrapper currently offers with projectile barrier, stealth, and damage reduction (and those are scrapper only right now)So arguing about the philosophical design of Scrapper is fun, but not really pertinent. What is pertinent is how the scrapper elite is currently used.

yep, but in pve your not using any of it (expect of to boon x3 stab)

in wvw thay are nice to have, but don't forget that not only you can make thatMesmer can make team stealth same as tiefFB have Sanctuary what have x2 more cd and wall of reflection

Damege reduction? you mean bulwark gyro? yes, but it's for 4s, and Resistence or Aegis beat that

With new "Recovery Matrix" Scrapper will have some acces to aegis too, but not that much as FB, same it's limited to how many Wells you take

Also if you chose superspeed trait, you will can't pasivly take -20% from team, and if you take -20% redirect from team trait, you have no aoe superspeed same as Quickness coming from it until you take tier 3 Kinetic Stabilizers, but that give only Superspeed to you

Lets see. First of all, you plan to rework half of an e-specs traits. Wouldn't it be easier to plan a new support focused elit spec, from the ground up? Considering that A-net is currently working on a new expansion, it would be kind of easier to make a new e-spec, than reworking scrapper for the third... fourth? time. Also this way you wouldn't destroy current playstyles and builds. Anyways, off to your rework:

@"Noah Salazar.5430" said:Hi after discussion with some ppl on other topic, i decided that insted 1-2 small edits, Scrapper needs bigger rework to make it work and more fun to play it, also needed more in end game content.

Rightht now biggest Scrapper problem is that his half support, and half tank,because of it Scrapper have problems describing his role in party or squad, as both roles same as tank or support suck cuz no one need half tank, half support, thay prefer 1 classMain problem of tank traits are that them only benefiting Scrapper, not his team, and tanks are much no need in current contentMain problem of Support traits (superspeed) are not give inaf good value to be on support role

This is only a problem in PvE. Bruiser playstyle in PvP is viable, and tank support in WvW is pretty much the default.

Here is how i categorized Scrapper new traits :

Green-> Support Tank traitsOrange->Support boon traits and ccRed -> DPS traits

Your wells have longer range, so your "domain" distance is longerinsted granting aegis on instant, you granting aegis on final puls of gyros, in pve thx that you need plan your wells better, and in pvp enemys will see that you used well, and short after it you will get aegis same as your teamYou no longer grant superspeed using wells by that trait

This would be probably useless. You would need to predict an incoming hit 3-6 seconds ahead. People would probably just spam wells off CD, and keep aegis up, to soak random hits. With changing on demand superspeed, to aegis, you hurt scrapper in WvW.

From now barriers that you get from daze or stun are also granted to your team in same timebecase you will have more acces to daze i also reduced vulnerability numbersthx to daze you will can control mobs or enemys close to you, or in pvp/wvw removing stability from enemys, or stoping thay casts if thay are too clost to you

Your wells daze enemys for short 0,5s same as your gyro

And honestly, this is the only reason I decided to reply here. With this trait, you take an adept trait, improve it, add a master trait to it, and on top of that, you add an old interaction back, that was removed, because it made scrapper horrible to play against.

Expert Examination trait i merged with System shocker trait

Insted i moved here old Speed of Synergy, and renemed it to "Acceleration module" also changed icon to match work of that trait better

As i deleted superspeed from Gyroscopic Acceleration trait, now you adionatly grant superspeed to team with your tool-belt skill too

That way you not spam with superspeed like with candys, more have a 2 of them that you need plan better, also remeber that Superspeed not stack, only refresh, so if you not wait 6s with your heal or tool-belt skill, your aoe superspeed time will be decrested, in couse of med kit, you will have 10s Superspeed on it insted of x2 6s

This would be a downgrade to the current version, that is 7+5 seconds, and gives the whole 12 seconds on Medkit. Nevertheless, it would be possible to achieve permanent superspeed with both versions.

Now you taking part of team dmg around 360 radius from you (like bulwark gyro), it's give more of support tank think ratcher than selfish trait, and use your tankes to benefit team

50% of that dmg is instantly on you, and 50% deleyd with 2s interval

If your hp drop to 25%, you geting immune to dmg and condi for 2s also dmg that was stored in that 2s interval change to heal if you get leathal dmg before that trait tiggered than you have 2s distortion while you downed, same as heal from deley

also that trait off stop working for 40s if that happyn, on that 40s you no longer will take dmg from your team until that trait is ready again

Had to give this several reads to understand. This trait has a pretty strong upside (passive lifesaver on 40 second CD, Soulbeast has 60/300 seconds on it, and is a grandmaster), but its downside could make this useless in WvW. Despite this, the PvP subforum would be on flames if it got implemented the way this is.

Becose that you now taking dmg from your team, i decidated to buff bariers you recrice from 15% to 20%

Also insted of having selfish boring 20% condi dmg reduction from kitten

You accelerating your -% condi dmg through fight, so it's bit of nerf but when you got full stacks on you it's -10% more than before

To make that trait more as support ability, i decided that from now on you will grant 2 auras on to your team

1 is light aura that give retaliation evry time thay get struck, same as -10% condi dmgsecound aura inflick Torment, and as well give -20% condi dmg

All that after you use your gyro

You can keep up light aura permanently with this, basicly giving the scrapper, and potentially its team permanent Reta. This would be useless in PvE, and cancer in competitive.

Now that trait grant short stability to you and your teamSame evry time you cc or daze target you geting superspeed that will help you with your Quickness rotation, and your wells will grant Quickess cuz of it with System Schocker traitOn top of that your daze and stuns are 50% longer

The stabi is nice, although the reduced duration will make this awkward in 1v1s, as it could run out, by the time your enemy gets up. The improved stun duration has no effect in high end PvE, and wouldn't be welcome in PvP. (Supply Crate for example would become a 3 seconds stun)

As a boonus, i also changed that trait : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pinpoint_Distribution

From now insted of geting 100 condi dmg for free, you got it binded to turretSame from now you will can buff 100 pover as wellAnd your turrets last bit longer

Welcome Engineer Turretslaves ;)

While I like the idea of Turrets giving an unique boon, it doesn't make much sense in Firearms. I would change Experimental Turrets in Inventions, so engi could bring something unique, instead of normal boons, that could actually make it wanted in group content.

No, I don't think Scrapper should become a support. And yes, tanks are needed in this game. The issue is that the tanks do as much damage as the duelists, because single specific trait choices provide too much in offense in one, instead of splitting the offense up for smaller incremental increases through 3 separate traits.As well, it has a lot of access to superspeed, especially now after the rework of a few traits. I've always said it before and I'll say it again: any tank in any game should never have access to high mobility, and high damage. This way, the playing field would be evened out. Sure, you can live forever, but you should be slow as crap and offensively weak to compensate.This is part of what's so problematic with soulbeast and ranger. it has access to high mobility and very high damage numbers, and can also fight 2v1s rather comfortably because they get a lot of evasion frames in their skills and utilities as well as some blocks and defensive measures with lower cooldowns like protection from dodging, really nice healing values through trait synergies, and barrier.

@wasss.1208

This is only a problem in PvE. Bruiser playstyle in PvP is viable, and tank support in WvW is pretty much the default.

This would be probably useless. You would need to predict an incoming hit 3-6 seconds ahead. People would probably just spam wells off CD, and keep aegis up, to soak random hits. With changing on demand superspeed, to aegis, you hurt scrapper in WvW.

Good feedbackWhat you think about wells give instant Aegis but that trait gona have 3s cd?

you hurt scrapper in WvW.

And honestly, this is the only reason I decided to reply here. With this trait, you take an adept trait, improve it, add a master trait to it, and on top of that, you add an old interaction back, that was removed, because it made scrapper horrible to play against.

Yep but ther was 1s daze, here you got only 0,5sbut good point, gona reduce daze from 0,5s to 0,3s

This would be a downgrade to the current version, that is 7+5 seconds, and gives the whole 12 seconds on Medkit. Nevertheless, it would be possible to achieve permanent superspeed with both versions.

No no no, read description12s is only for self-superspeed

aoe superspeed is only from heal (5s)

So in my rework, i gived Tool belt heal skill aoe insted of self, as compensation for wells

so with med-kit it's 10s aoe evry 14s (with tool-belt tree)

Other healings have around 50-60% up time, and are harder to pull of as superspeed refresh, not addEventualy duration can be buffed to 7s+7s or more if it's too shortBut like i said that are raw numbers, that prob can be better balanced

Had to give this several reads to understand. This trait has a pretty strong upside (passive lifesaver on 40 second CD, Soulbeast has 60/300 seconds on it, and is a grandmaster), but its downside could make this useless in WvW. Despite this, the PvP subforum would be on flames if it got implemented the way this is.

Yep, but Soulbeast have 5s + that one who recover alot of hp

I think 40s cd for 2s is reasonable

Same as downstie of it is that you taking more dmg on yourselfAsuming that that 4ppl around will get 8k dmg in same time that will make you take adional 6400 splited to 3200+3200, making you downed fast if you not block itAfter geting bombarded that trait off, give you 2s life saver and heal for ammount you got in interval

So if you play solo, you got only 2s, and 0 heal as you have no sorce from interval

The stabi is nice, although the reduced duration will make this awkward in 1v1s, as it could run out, by the time your enemy gets up. The improved stun duration has no effect in high end PvE, and wouldn't be welcome in PvP. (Supply Crate for example would become a 3 seconds stun)

Good point, i will make 50% Daze onlyi think stab is ok, don't forget that you can make it 4s with 100% boon

You can keep up light aura permanently with this, basicly giving the scrapper, and potentially its team permanent Reta. This would be useless in PvE, and cancer in competitive.

15 stacks gona make 7,5s aurasSo to make it perm, you need 4 scrapers in same teamYet thay need have stacked up Drak/Light Adaptive armorAlso make it perfectly as Auras have Superspeed treatment and not stack, only refresh

About pve, yes thats true, for pve is more +20% self-barier from that trait

While I like the idea of Turrets giving an unique boon, it doesn't make much sense in Firearms. I would change Experimental Turrets in Inventions, so engi could bring something unique, instead of normal boons, that could actually make it wanted in group content.

Yep it's like 50% good and bad, but i think it's better what is right nowInentions will give might+fury up to that

@"Noah Salazar.5430" said:

This would be probably useless. You would need to predict an incoming hit 3-6 seconds ahead. People would probably just spam wells off CD, and keep aegis up, to soak random hits. With changing on demand superspeed, to aegis, you hurt scrapper in WvW.

On paper, it would work. Although you would get a lot of hatred from both the scrapper and the guardian community: scrappers get upset every time any of their superspeed ability gets touched, as it is crucial in WvW, where the build is currently meta. And I assume Guardians would hate to see someone else spamming aegis as they do, as it is their main class identity, while Scrappers current is barrier and superspeed.

And honestly, this is the only reason I decided to reply here. With this trait, you take an adept trait, improve it, add a master trait to it, and on top of that, you add an old interaction back, that was removed, because it made scrapper horrible to play against.

The duration of the daze rarely matters. Short, instant dazes see more play, since they are primarly used to interrupt one crucial skill, to distrupt the enemy. Currently your trait would give the Scrapper a chance to equip 5 dazes with wells, +1 with the gyro, +1 on toolbelt if you choose shredder, +1 stun on hammer or+1 stun on shield (which honestly, could hit a lot of people if you walk into a bomb). And with daze comes: some AoE barrier, weakness, vulnerability, all from an adept trait. Now add the CC based grandmaster, and you are: dazing everyone in a huge area every time you press a well/gyro, weaken them, put vulne on them, give some barrier to your team, give stabi to your team, give superspeed to yourself, which gives 50% personal quickness, and 25% team quickness. For bonus memes you can put this bad boy in your weapon: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Absorption , so every single utility, heal, elite, two toolbelts, and a weapon skill would give all of these bonuses to you, while negating enemy boons harder than anyone can currently in the game. (well, maybe close second to warrior bubble)

Had to give this several reads to understand. This trait has a pretty strong upside (passive lifesaver on 40 second CD, Soulbeast has 60/300 seconds on it, and is a grandmaster), but its downside could make this useless in WvW. Despite this, the PvP subforum would be on flames if it got implemented the way this is.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eternal_Bond this is what I was talking about. This one gives you ~4k health, 3 sec protection, and negates the killing blow. Only if you are merged at that moment, and has a 300 seconds CD. Your trait would probably get the same treatment in competitive modes, like every single passive lifesaver. This trait would be a dead trait from the moment it gets introduced there.

The stabi is nice, although the reduced duration will make this awkward in 1v1s, as it could run out, by the time your enemy gets up. The improved stun duration has no effect in high end PvE, and wouldn't be welcome in PvP. (Supply Crate for example would become a 3 seconds stun)

There is no such thing as 100% dura in PvP. There is barely any boon duration left there. As for PvE: stability barely needed there, and you have an another convinient way of applying it, on support. As for WvW, this change might be good.

While I like the idea of Turrets giving an unique boon, it doesn't make much sense in Firearms. I would change Experimental Turrets in Inventions, so engi could bring something unique, instead of normal boons, that could actually make it wanted in group content.

The problem is, you are putting a turret based trait into Firearms, where it doesn't belong. You also put a support trait into a pure damage traitline, where it doesn't belong. You say turretslave, but dps builds would have to give up 5% condi damage, and some expertise, to give 100 aoe condi damage, and a utility slot, to slot a pretty bad skill. On the other hand, supports would have to go out of their way, and drop a whole traitline to get this trait, with a bunch of useless (for them) damage traits. It would be much easier to rework the current turret trait, to give something unique (the buffs you described), instead of simple boons.

And for an ending, I would like to highlight the first point I made: you want a complete rework for scrapper, to be something it wasn't designed for. You should try to make a new e-spec, from ground up, that way you have much more flexibility, and much less negativity from changing a currently not bad spec (in competitive modes).

No. Literally the only reason I even made an Engineer was because of Scrapper. I don't even like Holosmith that much, Scrapper ride or die.

If Scrapper were to be completely overhauled to fill a different niche, I would absolutely drop it entirely. I'm not saying that my opinion is what matters, I'm just saying that pushing an elite spec in a very solid direction only to push it in a completely different direction is kinda bullshit. There's still room for a new elite spec to fill the niche of pure support, why ruin Scrapper for those who enjoy it?

@wasss.1208Ty for your opinion, i took a break to get somethink better, also you had right with that superspeed think, so i moved Quickness on wells insted, what you think?@draxynnic.3719I thinked about your idea with wells, so i puted it this way, what you think?@juno.1840i changed aegis to barries to not overboon guardians with your feedback@Reknarok.7582 @Kodama.6453 @Ghos.1326

I made changes more lighter, maybe now you gona like it much moreAlso that rework upgrade stuff what you got right now to do even betterthis allow you to play that class in pve as boon sup, or tank sup

Support Tank traits [Grant barrier, redirect dmg to you, Increst barrier you grant]Support boon traits [Grant Quickness, Grant Superspeed, Grant Stability+Superspeed]DPS traits [Give stab+might to you, give +15%dmg, give Quickness to you and 200power]

@"Taril.8619"Any thoughts on version 2.0 i made?

Aslo i want thank evryone of you for spending your time leaving your comments here, as it helped me create scrapper rework even better than it was before :)

Here are new reworked skills, i also added symbols to be eazier for you to find

Repleced aegis to barrier, as that match Scrapper theme better

Granted self stab after casting wells

reworked to gyro and wells grant Quickness to team

So now first traits are more about gyros and wells, not only gyro

Now wells and gyro grant swifness to your teami know you can grant swifness by Lighting field + blast finisher, it's more of supportive think that you will give swifness more in montion witchout of need to stop for blast

Removed heal, also in pvp/wvw that trait gona have 300s cd

not changed anythink

I made this trait more simple, also now barriers you grant are also incrested (Recovery Matrix trait)

backed to what it was before, also now when you cc, you give stab+superspeed to team

Add stab and alar and quickness with perma uptime and you can replace chrono and alarbrigade with scrapper

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Add stab and alar and quickness with perma uptime and you can replace chrono and alarbrigade with scrapper

Getting all three is a big ask. Personally, I'm inclined to think that chrono should be the only thing that can bring both quickness and alacrity - that can be its niche, being able to bring both in one package. Firebrand and renegade can bring quickness and alacrity respectively, but each brings something else to the table (what, precisely, that something else is depends on the build).

Any other build that provided quickness or alacrity I'd visualise as working the same way. A hypothetical alternative quickness support, for instance, should have the other side of its capabilities include things that neither the chrono nor the firebrand brings to the table.

I love when people assume that players don't enjoy using the tools of the spec so they need to be reworked. The whole premise that a spec is 'useless' because it has 'tank' tools is narrowminded and not inline with how the game allows people to play how they want. Class design is not about what is 'needed' in some game mode or what is a subjective measure of 'fun'.

So no, Scrapper shouldn't be reworked just to appease some sense of 'usefulness' for specific groups of players.

Add stab and alar and quickness with perma uptime and you can replace chrono and alarbrigade with scrapper

but each brings something else to the table (what, precisely, that something else is depends on the build).

Any other build that provided quickness or alacrity I'd visualise as working the same way. A hypothetical alternative quickness support, for instance, should have the other side of its capabilities include things that neither the chrono nor the firebrand brings to the table.

I love when people assume that players don't enjoy using the tools of the spec so they need to be reworked. The whole premise that a spec is 'useless' because it has 'tank' tools is narrowminded and not inline with how the game allows people to play how they want.

all i did was add new stuff to old one, so that part is incorectppl still can play with how the game allows people to play, same as how they want having more stuff than before

Class design is not about what is 'needed' in some game mode or what is a subjective measure of 'fun'.

on https://snowcrows.com/Enginner have only 3 choises while other class got around 4-5

Scrapper got only 1 choise, while alone scrapper not providing much to team expect of 4s bulwark gyro

Rework of Damage Dampener + Recovery Matrix + Adaptive armor schold change that bringing more value to team insted only for 4s

Rework of System Shocker + Aceleration Module+ Kinetic stabilizer schold help you if you decide to be more of boon support adding you more sorce of stab, and sorce of Quickness

I'd like to see them move the "reduce incoming condition damage while you have barrier" to baseline, and move the outgoing damage as barrier to adaptive armor.