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An interesting tidbit from the MMO hype of the day

subversiontwo.7501subversiontwo.7501 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited July 20, 2020 in WvW

So, today Peon (500k subscribers) posted an updated summary about AoC, hyping that game up, which caught the eyes of other big streamers or online content creators (Asmon 1.5m followers / 65k live viewers, Summit 5.5m followers / 30k live viewers, Shroud 7m followers, etc.), doing reaction videos and the AoC devs were quick to hop onto the hype and deliver some interviews to those outlets, spawning more videos and streams for that game in the past 24 hrs. Now, what was interesting was not how good AoC looked in the summary, that isn't really relevant to this forum.

What was rather interesting was that at two times the communities errupted in spam about GW2.

Those two times were when they spoke about:
1. The fluidity of combat systems
2. Large scale PvP (WvW)

That strikes me as rather intriguing that so many of those players, of other games, are saying the same things we are saying in the WvW communities: That GW2's strengths are the fluidity of the combat system and how that translates into group PvP. It also goes to suggest that there still is alot of untapped potential here being squandered.

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Comments

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    GW2 players are often cynical because this is the game we play and there are many ways we feel it could be improved. Some of our opinions are more informed and substantiated than others. Quite frequently folks who play gw2 will talk about how other games are doing cherry-picked aspects "better" (in their opinion) without acknowledging an active appreciation for what this game does better and often with a bias caused by discontent. To be fair, nobody starts a "How x can be improved" thread with all of the things this game does right.

    This is an investment for us. Not just financially but emotionally. We could be using our free time to play other games but we choose to play this one. Why? Well, I'm sure the fluidity of combat systems and fun/successful large scale PvP (WvW) contributes to that choice. Perhaps it's just the community. I don't think you'll catch too many players here suggesting the core elements of the gameplay are anything less than good.

    The general consensus is that this gamemode has a lot of untapped potential and folks who are invested in the gamemode are tired of it constantly getting put to the side of the development team's goals in favor of other projects. Procrastination and lack of evolution have many of the players in a rut. It is a legitimate concern. Wvw is collecting dust. That doesn't take away from what the game does well, and if you're a newcomer to the game a lot of the things older players will see as stale will be new to you.

    tl;dr Gw2 is a good game but wvw has grown stale.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    AoC is dead on arrival - it has a $15 a month subscription fee. Will probably get a large following the first couple of months due to hype true, then it'll die out within 6 months. GW2 really isnt its competition there, WoW is and yeah... you know... like trying to topple a building with your face. Even if its an incredibly good game, the sub fee will instantly stop it going viral, sort of speak.

    Regarding the fluidity, well thats because GW2 has always gotten the fundamentals right (throughout both expansions) even if its not the most "advanced" game around feature wise. Many newer game sort of focus on the latter so they can "compete" and forget the former. For me personally it can be incredibly tiny things that annoy me, most notably the care and attention to animations, how they feel connected to the 3D world. Just something as simple as a characters legs moving too slow or too fast compared to the percieved speed of your character can instantly take me out of a game.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • AoC is Age of Conan? This game is still a thing?

    Με χίλια ονόματα, μία χάρη, ακρίτας ειτ’ αρματολός, αντάρτης, κλέφτης, παλικάρι; πάντα ειν’ ο ίδιος ο λαός.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    AoC is dead on arrival - it has a $15 a month subscription fee. Will probably get a large following the first couple of months due to hype true, then it'll die out within 6 months. GW2 really isnt its competition there, WoW is and yeah... you know... like trying to topple a building with your face. Even if its an incredibly good game, the sub fee will instantly stop it going viral, sort of speak.

    Regarding the fluidity, well thats because GW2 has always gotten the fundamentals right (throughout both expansions) even if its not the most "advanced" game around feature wise. Many newer game sort of focus on the latter so they can "compete" and forget the former. For me personally it can be incredibly tiny things that annoy me, most notably the care and attention to animations, how they feel connected to the 3D world. Just something as simple as a characters legs moving too slow or too fast compared to the percieved speed of your character can instantly take me out of a game.

    I was curious, so I looked up AoC and checked out one of the gameplay videos they had up. Wow! That game looks absolutely awful! The whole time the mage-like character is just standing there casting really slow animations with huge telegraphs and I don't see any dodging or anything. I think I am spoiled by GW2. I need that fast, mobile combat with active avoidance. Standing in place with long, slow channels and clunky, slow animations is just not cutting it after GW2!

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Gw2 has been brought up by Asmons and Shrouds and Summits chat before, heck just a day or two ago on Summit's while he was on ESO because he really wanted a game with open world pvp and suggestions including gw2 came up. None of them takes gw2 seriously, twitch chat mostly thinks gw2 is a joke, Asmon 100% prefers wow over everything else even though I think he could have fun in wvw as a warrior that he loves to play, Shroud and Summit now play ESO together, Shroud also loves wow hence the love for Eso gearing and progression, something gw2 highly lacks.

    I really don't think any of them knows about the fun battles you can get in wvw, from roaming to zerging.
    Kind of a shame no real big streamer will give the game a chance, then again with the neglect of wvw... why bother.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs. - Thieves
    /Stomps Mirage-Scourge-Warclaw, boon ball balance! - Anet
    No expansion money as long as Mesmers are trash. - Me

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    That strikes me as rather intriguing that so many of those players, of other games, are saying the same things we are saying in the WvW communities: That GW2's strengths are the fluidity of the combat system and how that translates into group PvP. It also goes to suggest that there still is alot of untapped potential here being squandered.

    Like what they did with the newest map (a flavor of WVW) I wonder if in the future we are going to get more wvw inspired and maybe even content that directly plugs us into wvw; newer maps I suppose. It can be hard to change old content so maybe newer content about "going into the Mists" will be the wvw that wvw players have been requesting. Now THAT would be smart and intuitive content.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @diomache.9246 said:
    AoC is Age of Conan? This game is still a thing?

    No, Ashes of Creation.

    I dont really doubt that it could be good, but if you look through the entire LazyPeon video you will quickly come to realize one thing - it's too complicated and involves player attacks on player investment that will just turn most people off after it's happened one too many times, or it will grind everything to a halt because no one wants to loose it all so they wont even begin. While the video doesnt outright say it, you can tell that things such as player driven cities and the caravan PvP system will heavily emphesize having a large and active guild not for the "fun" of it but to dominate the plebs - the "fun" depends on how willing others are to try to provide content for those dominating guilds. And for a subscription fee... only a small subset of the hardcore crowd will like being constantly put in that situation. The rest will probably just go have 30m of fun in another game. If WoW was the only existing competition and you had to choose between that and AoC then sure, fantastic. I'd probably pick the later going by the information we see. But that's not really reality.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • @diomache.9246 said:
    AoC is Age of Conan? This game is still a thing?

    Age of Conan is still alive and kicking!

    Random pug scum

  • @hallonknopp.6532 said:

    @diomache.9246 said:
    AoC is Age of Conan? This game is still a thing?

    Age of Conan is still alive and kicking!

    So, this means the upcoming trash game needs a new abbreviation.

    Με χίλια ονόματα, μία χάρη, ακρίτας ειτ’ αρματολός, αντάρτης, κλέφτης, παλικάρι; πάντα ειν’ ο ίδιος ο λαός.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2020

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    No doubt about it. GW2 has an excellent combat system. It's easily one of its best features, although it shows moments of brilliance in other designs from time to time. You certainly won't find classes designed like Weaver, maps and gliding like Heart of Thorns, or mounts like PoF over in WoW! But you also won't find lame non-trinity instanced PvE with boring encounter design and faceroll single-difficulty modes.

    In many ways, it's the very same "excellent combat system" that also produces the things you dislike.

    In the end, the action combat system, and the freeform build system are, at the same time, both one of the strongest points of GW2, but also one of the things dragging it down. That's because only a small minority could ever truly make full use of those systems - and you can't design the whole game like GW2 around such a small minority. Thus, the game, in fear of driving most of its players away, ends up being designed in a way that is not able to fully utilize the full potential those systems offer.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Kondor.2904Kondor.2904 Member ✭✭✭

    No, GW2's strengths are skins and story. Stop with this nonsense.

  • TrOtskY.5927TrOtskY.5927 Member ✭✭

    I wouldn't get too hyped by a Peon video. He has a slight habit of getting overexcited about things then just a few months later being totally over it. He's done this over and over with a whole bunch of MMOs at this point. His videos are great and I am a fan but I have noticed this.

  • sigur.9453sigur.9453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    AoC is dead on arrival - it has a $15 a month subscription fee. Will probably get a large following the first couple of months due to hype true, then it'll die out within 6 months. GW2 really isnt its competition there, WoW is and yeah... you know... like trying to topple a building with your face. Even if its an incredibly good game, the sub fee will instantly stop it going viral, sort of speak.

    we will see. while also beeing sceptic, i don´t have the audacity to predict the future, especially whit "online products".
    if they deliver on promised features AND the gameplay will be fun there is probaply a good market with dissatisfied mmo-players (like myself)

    it also will not have no box price. which is in my optinion a good marketing/buisness strat. 15€ to try a game for a month is quite a good deal.
    im really looking forward to a sub game, can´t stand these cash shop games that try every aspect of psychology to make you spend (more)money anymore.
    yes, while beeing "not that bad", gw2 does this aswell.

  • subversiontwo.7501subversiontwo.7501 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2020

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    In many ways, it's the very same "excellent combat system" that also produces the things you dislike.

    In the end, the action combat system, and the freeform build system are, at the same time, both one of the strongest points of GW2, but also one of the things dragging it down. That's because only a small minority could ever truly make full use of those systems - and you can't design the whole game like GW2 around such a small minority. Thus, the game, in fear of driving most of its players away, ends up being designed in a way that is not able to fully utilize the full potential those systems offer.

    That is a rather pessimistic view on it and it is also a pretty interesting view to put forward in a place like this. People involved with WvW at some depth all tends to be quite insightful when it comes to how the combat system impact players of different skill- and experience levels. I find that to be to be a pretty good thing in WvW and an interesting topic with that, a topic that concerns quite alot of WvW players on different discords across the communities here. What are good starter builds, what are the skill floors, what can be expected from other players and what is asking too much etc.

    There is quite alot of potential progress among builds and there are quite alot of good builds and ways to play in WvW that isn't particularily difficult to pull off yet can be impactful throughout basic, intermediary and expert levels of experience. If anything, I'd say the mode rather wrestles with recent dominant perspectives on things being too difficult when in fact they aren't very difficult at all and it is more about motivating players to dare trying to do things and learn through setbacks or for leaders of players to learn the value of organisation.

    Overall, I'd consider that more a strength of the combat system (progression, span, appropriate difficulty for the context of what WvW is) rather than that the combat system is particularily difficult, complex or advanced. I've mentioned that many times in the past when people bring up present-gen MMO competitors like BDO or AA whose combat systems may be more action-oriented than GW2's: GW2's system scales better to WvW-type combat. That only goes to support the topic at hand that the combat systems in eg., BDO or AA may fit sPvP equally well or better while GW2's system still outshine them once your scale to something larger. The system really shines in the 5-25 scale and still does quite nicely at 50+.

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well gw2 blob combat is a mess. It's ok when random pug groups fight without commanders, but when blobing start it's just trash. AoE cap and boon sharing really kills combat.

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • Substance E.4852Substance E.4852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    GW2 really isnt its competition there, WoW is and yeah... you know... like trying to topple a building with your face. Even if its an incredibly good game, the sub fee will instantly stop it going viral, sort of speak.

    Ya that sub fee and "WoW style play" really knee capped FF14

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    GW2 really isnt its competition there, WoW is and yeah... you know... like trying to topple a building with your face. Even if its an incredibly good game, the sub fee will instantly stop it going viral, sort of speak.

    Ya that sub fee and "WoW style play" really knee capped FF14

    Ok so then there are another competitor. Another game they have to beat in terms of gameplay and features. That's worse.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @diomache.9246 said:
    AoC is Age of Conan? This game is still a thing?

    I used to love that game, years ago, but now, it's not a thing. I had the same reaction you did at first but it took me a few seconds to realize they were talking about Ashes of Creation. I don't really expect it to be big, but it'll probably make a decent splash at launch.

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭✭
    1. your biggest advantage over other MMOs is combat system
    2. literally just kitten at spvp and wvw community for years, keep bumping devs into gemstore things
    3. ESL leaves, most gw1 pvp scene veterans and gw2 pioneers either leave the game or turn into casual-mode
    4. instead of adding spvp and wvw content - keep going further into living story, that is kitten and no1 really cares about it except some boomers
    5. ????
    6. What, you want me to add some kind of profit here? lol.

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons
    25.02.2020 edit - Nevermind, now I spam only 29 skill-buttons

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    1. your biggest advantage over other MMOs is combat system
    2. literally just kitten at spvp and wvw community for years, keep bumping devs into gemstore things
    3. ESL leaves, most gw1 pvp scene veterans and gw2 pioneers either leave the game or turn into casual-mode
    4. instead of adding spvp and wvw content - keep going further into living story, that is kitten and no1 really cares about it except some boomers
    5. ????
    6. What, you want me to add some kind of profit here? lol.

    Considering that for practically any MMORPG game PvE players heavily outweight PvP ones, and that holds true even for games with core features that are supposed to revolve around PvP, i'd say that the biggest flaw here would be point 1, not 2-4. If your main advantage over other MMOs is the combat system, then you should make an MMO that is all about combat, not a MMORPG game. That's because combat system alone won't be enough to bring a lot of players from the target group MMORPGs aim for. And the players for whom that migh be enough would rather go for games that are tailored for their interest more (so, some kinds of pure PvP ones).

    And as for your point 4, i'm very sorry to inform you, that the number of players that do in fact care about the story even now is almost certainly much higher than the number of players that were interested in GW2's PvP modes at their height. So, even if it's true, that, as you claim, "no1 really cares" about it, all it would mean is that for PvP it's much, much worse than that.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    1. your biggest advantage over other MMOs is combat system
    2. literally just kitten at spvp and wvw community for years, keep bumping devs into gemstore things
    3. ESL leaves, most gw1 pvp scene veterans and gw2 pioneers either leave the game or turn into casual-mode
    4. instead of adding spvp and wvw content - keep going further into living story, that is kitten and no1 really cares about it except some boomers
    5. ????
    6. What, you want me to add some kind of profit here? lol.

    Considering that for practically any MMORPG game PvE players heavily outweight PvP ones, and that holds true even for games with core features that are supposed to revolve around PvP, i'd say that the biggest flaw here would be point 1, not 2-4. If your main advantage over other MMOs is the combat system, then you should make an MMO that is all about combat, not a MMORPG game. That's because combat system alone won't be enough to bring a lot of players from the target group MMORPGs aim for. And the players for whom that migh be enough would rather go for games that are tailored for their interest more (so, some kinds of pure PvP ones).

    And as for your point 4, i'm very sorry to inform you, that the number of players that do in fact care about the story even now is almost certainly much higher than the number of players that were interested in GW2's PvP modes at their height. So, even if it's true, that, as you claim, "no1 really cares" about it, all it would mean is that for PvP it's much, much worse than that.

    First time in the internet? Do you think that everything written here is true? Have you ever heard about overexaggerating, hyperbole or meme?
    Call me if you google any of those

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons
    25.02.2020 edit - Nevermind, now I spam only 29 skill-buttons

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    First time in the internet? Do you think that everything written here is true? Have you ever heard about overexaggerating, hyperbole or meme?
    Call me if you google any of those

    So, you're saying you fully knew that your arguments were very far from truth.
    Duly noted.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020

    So you googled, nice.
    No, theyre not far from truth. But youre a PvE player, so Im not gonna describe you why amongst ppl playing other MMOs, when some1 mentions GW2 theyre always thinking - hey, it has awesome combat system. And combat system is what you meet on each step of gameplay (except things like crafting, playing on TP etc). No1 that I know that plays BDO, WoW or other MMO ever told me - hey, gw2 has awesome story/plot/pve/whatever.
    GW2 is a casual game that attracts so called boomers, so they obviously gonna play PvE, which can be played by any1, anytime, with one hand (and even then - theres a thread called 'why icebrood saga is bad' with tons of responses, lol). And thats how ANet makes money, gathering it from PvE ppl, cuz theres nothing that interests ppl from PvP section. So why would they added content to it, right? No profit there.

    So, all in all to make it simple for you what I wrote with those '6' points is - > GW2 has great combat system that would attract both PvP and PvE interested ppl, no content for PvP section caused ppl to leave, and ANet dont care cuz they make profit from PvE, not PvP. So now PvP community is pretty much dead, and the only thing left is living story, that for most of the ppl that were attracted to PvP is boring, so they leave. And here we are, two game modes killed/struggling, one is alive, instead of having all 3 healthy and profitable. Hope now you understand.
    Enjoy Icebrood Saga and next time try to laugh at meme, instead of taking it so literally and serious.

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons
    25.02.2020 edit - Nevermind, now I spam only 29 skill-buttons

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    GW2 really isnt its competition there, WoW is and yeah... you know... like trying to topple a building with your face. Even if its an incredibly good game, the sub fee will instantly stop it going viral, sort of speak.

    Ya that sub fee and "WoW style play" really knee capped FF14

    Ok so then there are another competitor. Another game they have to beat in terms of gameplay and features. That's worse.

    It's not hard to beat ff14's disco dance floor combat.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020

    @TeqkOneStylez.8047 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    GW2 really isnt its competition there, WoW is and yeah... you know... like trying to topple a building with your face. Even if its an incredibly good game, the sub fee will instantly stop it going viral, sort of speak.

    Ya that sub fee and "WoW style play" really knee capped FF14

    Ok so then there are another competitor. Another game they have to beat in terms of gameplay and features. That's worse.

    It's not hard to beat ff14's disco dance floor combat.

    Which begs another question. With gw2 combat being far more superior than ff14 combat, ur opinion clearly but not mine, why even though ff14 cost way more and is sub based does it enjoy a far higher over all player base? other than the combat mechanics gw2 must be failing some kind of hard on other aspects of its game for this to have happened lol.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Which begs another question. With gw2 combat being far more superior than ff14 combat, ur opinion clearly but not mine, why even though ff14 cost way more and is sub based does it enjoy a far higher over all player base? other than the combat mechanics gw2 must be failing some kind of hard on other aspects of its game for this to have happened lol.

    It doesn't have wvw to bring it down.... :lol:

    Also the guy running it, Naoki Yoshida, built a lifetime of good will with rebuilding that game, plus it's final fantasy, with 4 decades from that franchise. Plus it's pve and story is supposedly top notch. Can't say the same for gw2...

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs. - Thieves
    /Stomps Mirage-Scourge-Warclaw, boon ball balance! - Anet
    No expansion money as long as Mesmers are trash. - Me

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Which begs another question. With gw2 combat being far more superior than ff14 combat, ur opinion clearly but not mine, why even though ff14 cost way more and is sub based does it enjoy a far higher over all player base? other than the combat mechanics gw2 must be failing some kind of hard on other aspects of its game for this to have happened lol.

    It doesn't have wvw to bring it down.... :lol:

    Also the guy running it, Naoki Yoshida, built a lifetime of good will with rebuilding that game, plus it's final fantasy, with 4 decades from that franchise. Plus it's pve and story is supposedly top notch. Can't say the same for gw2...

    I can say first hand finishing heavensward and being half way through stormblood that the story is on a whole different level compared to gw2's lol and apparently shadowbringers raises the bar even further. The trials and dungeons blow gw2's away as well and are a blast..... BUT what the poster said was true, its pvp is a after thought and it shows but it isn't nor will it ever be a pvp focused mmo, at least I'm my opinion and the que times for dps like myself are long especially in pvp lol. With that said though the combat isn't as good in a pvp setting as gw2 is the actual skills and animations are so so soooooo much better and well done than gw2. I mean look at a vid of samurai skills and see how the skills are actually like that of aikido etc and the emotes as well like whipping the blood off ur blade before sheathing it lol. As trash as I think gw2 pvp is now it's still better than most mmos as far as if the player ONLY wants to do pvp even if the devs are ruining it. If ur doing pve,dungeon and raiding I'd say anyone playing gw2 over ff14 doesn't kno what there missing though it costs far more but imo it's worth the sub for those who mainly enjoy pve,dungeon and trials.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I can say first hand finishing heavensward and being half way through stormblood that the story is on a whole different level compared to gw2's lol and apparently shadowbringers raises the bar even further. The trials and dungeons blow gw2's away as well and are a blast..... BUT what the poster said was true, its pvp is a after thought and it shows but it isn't nor will it ever be a pvp focused mmo, at least I'm my opinion and the que times for dps like myself are long especially in pvp lol. With that said though the combat isn't as good in a pvp setting as gw2 is the actual skills and animations are so so soooooo much better and well done than gw2. I mean look at a vid of samurai skills and see how the skills are actually like that of aikido etc and the emotes as well like whipping the blood off ur blade before sheathing it lol. As trash as I think gw2 pvp is now it's still better than most mmos as far as if the player ONLY wants to do pvp even if the devs are ruining it. If ur doing pve,dungeon and raiding I'd say anyone playing gw2 over ff14 doesn't kno what there missing though it costs far more but imo it's worth the sub for those who mainly enjoy pve,dungeon and trials.

    Pretty much everything I've heard from my friend who has tried to get me into it :)

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs. - Thieves
    /Stomps Mirage-Scourge-Warclaw, boon ball balance! - Anet
    No expansion money as long as Mesmers are trash. - Me

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I can say first hand finishing heavensward and being half way through stormblood that the story is on a whole different level compared to gw2's lol and apparently shadowbringers raises the bar even further. The trials and dungeons blow gw2's away as well and are a blast..... BUT what the poster said was true, its pvp is a after thought and it shows but it isn't nor will it ever be a pvp focused mmo, at least I'm my opinion and the que times for dps like myself are long especially in pvp lol. With that said though the combat isn't as good in a pvp setting as gw2 is the actual skills and animations are so so soooooo much better and well done than gw2. I mean look at a vid of samurai skills and see how the skills are actually like that of aikido etc and the emotes as well like whipping the blood off ur blade before sheathing it lol. As trash as I think gw2 pvp is now it's still better than most mmos as far as if the player ONLY wants to do pvp even if the devs are ruining it. If ur doing pve,dungeon and raiding I'd say anyone playing gw2 over ff14 doesn't kno what there missing though it costs far more but imo it's worth the sub for those who mainly enjoy pve,dungeon and trials.

    Pretty much everything I've heard from my friend who has tried to get me into it :)

    Lol its imo the best pve, dungeon and trial experience I've had and I've played gw2,eso,bdo,archeage, lotro, tera, rift and a small amount of wow. I didnt play enough of wow to be able to compare to much. But as much as I love ff14 as I said if u just want to pvp definitely dont choose ff14 lol.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @XenesisII.1540 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I can say first hand finishing heavensward and being half way through stormblood that the story is on a whole different level compared to gw2's lol and apparently shadowbringers raises the bar even further. The trials and dungeons blow gw2's away as well and are a blast..... BUT what the poster said was true, its pvp is a after thought and it shows but it isn't nor will it ever be a pvp focused mmo, at least I'm my opinion and the que times for dps like myself are long especially in pvp lol. With that said though the combat isn't as good in a pvp setting as gw2 is the actual skills and animations are so so soooooo much better and well done than gw2. I mean look at a vid of samurai skills and see how the skills are actually like that of aikido etc and the emotes as well like whipping the blood off ur blade before sheathing it lol. As trash as I think gw2 pvp is now it's still better than most mmos as far as if the player ONLY wants to do pvp even if the devs are ruining it. If ur doing pve,dungeon and raiding I'd say anyone playing gw2 over ff14 doesn't kno what there missing though it costs far more but imo it's worth the sub for those who mainly enjoy pve,dungeon and trials.

    Pretty much everything I've heard from my friend who has tried to get me into it :)

    Lol its imo the best pve, dungeon and trial experience I've had and I've played gw2,eso,bdo,archeage, lotro, tera, rift and a small amount of wow. I didnt play enough of wow to be able to compare to much. But as much as I love ff14 as I said if u just want to pvp definitely dont choose ff14 lol.

    Yup.

    FF14 is definitely worth getting into if you want actual good and meaty PvE content. WoW is as well, I'd say they are both on the same level. Complain all you want about the combat mechanics (tab target), I used to be of that same mindset...you get over it real quick once you realize those games actually have content worth doing and worth repeating both for the sake of challenging yourself and a group as well as rewards, which is not something GW2 can boast of with its PvE.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @XenesisII.1540 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I can say first hand finishing heavensward and being half way through stormblood that the story is on a whole different level compared to gw2's lol and apparently shadowbringers raises the bar even further. The trials and dungeons blow gw2's away as well and are a blast..... BUT what the poster said was true, its pvp is a after thought and it shows but it isn't nor will it ever be a pvp focused mmo, at least I'm my opinion and the que times for dps like myself are long especially in pvp lol. With that said though the combat isn't as good in a pvp setting as gw2 is the actual skills and animations are so so soooooo much better and well done than gw2. I mean look at a vid of samurai skills and see how the skills are actually like that of aikido etc and the emotes as well like whipping the blood off ur blade before sheathing it lol. As trash as I think gw2 pvp is now it's still better than most mmos as far as if the player ONLY wants to do pvp even if the devs are ruining it. If ur doing pve,dungeon and raiding I'd say anyone playing gw2 over ff14 doesn't kno what there missing though it costs far more but imo it's worth the sub for those who mainly enjoy pve,dungeon and trials.

    Pretty much everything I've heard from my friend who has tried to get me into it :)

    Lol its imo the best pve, dungeon and trial experience I've had and I've played gw2,eso,bdo,archeage, lotro, tera, rift and a small amount of wow. I didnt play enough of wow to be able to compare to much. But as much as I love ff14 as I said if u just want to pvp definitely dont choose ff14 lol.

    Yup.

    FF14 is definitely worth getting into if you want actual good and meaty PvE content. WoW is as well, I'd say they are both on the same level. Complain all you want about the combat mechanics (tab target), I used to be of that same mindset...you get over it real quick once you realize those games actually have content worth doing and worth repeating both for the sake of challenging yourself and a group as well as rewards, which is not something GW2 can boast of with its PvE.

    Until ff14 I refused to tab target, last 5 yrs in gw2 I used action cam haha so i gravitated towards bdo and eso etc. I still prefer action cam in gw2 yet I actually enjoy my samurai and dragoons combat in ff14 even though its tab due to how great the animations are. I'm going to be rebuying ff14 and expacs on ps4 tomorrow actually as the package is 50% off as ghost of tsushima is reminding me how comfy couch gaming is haha. Plug for ghost of tsushima, probably best game I've played in 30 yrs of gaming, subjective of course :)

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    Lol its imo the best pve, dungeon and trial experience I've had and I've played gw2,eso,bdo,archeage, lotro, tera, rift and a small amount of wow. I didnt play enough of wow to be able to compare to much. But as much as I love ff14 as I said if u just want to pvp definitely dont choose ff14 lol.

    Yup.

    FF14 is definitely worth getting into if you want actual good and meaty PvE content. WoW is as well, I'd say they are both on the same level. Complain all you want about the combat mechanics (tab target), I used to be of that same mindset...you get over it real quick once you realize those games actually have content worth doing and worth repeating both for the sake of challenging yourself and a group as well as rewards, which is not something GW2 can boast of with its PvE.

    As someone who's really not into group PvE content, that makes it a bit easier for me. I've heard good things about FF14 but every time I look at trailers I shudder at the player characters.

    AoC looks very promising from a WvW perspective - in my opinion, the core system sounds like what I thought GW2's WvW should have been from launch. The only things I'm still unconvinced by are the combat system, which is GW2's biggest strength, and whether it's going to survive release.

    There's another wildcard in there regarding an OCX/SEA server. If that has a big enough audience, and a good enough connection, that will make the game for me. If it lacks one or both of those things, it will make it unplayable (server events appear to be based on regional primetime, so NA server would not be an option).

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2020

    @Ben K.6238 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    Lol its imo the best pve, dungeon and trial experience I've had and I've played gw2,eso,bdo,archeage, lotro, tera, rift and a small amount of wow. I didnt play enough of wow to be able to compare to much. But as much as I love ff14 as I said if u just want to pvp definitely dont choose ff14 lol.

    Yup.

    FF14 is definitely worth getting into if you want actual good and meaty PvE content. WoW is as well, I'd say they are both on the same level. Complain all you want about the combat mechanics (tab target), I used to be of that same mindset...you get over it real quick once you realize those games actually have content worth doing and worth repeating both for the sake of challenging yourself and a group as well as rewards, which is not something GW2 can boast of with its PvE.

    As someone who's really not into group PvE content, that makes it a bit easier for me. I've heard good things about FF14 but every time I look at trailers I shudder at the player characters.

    AoC looks very promising from a WvW perspective - in my opinion, the core system sounds like what I thought GW2's WvW should have been from launch. The only things I'm still unconvinced by are the combat system, which is GW2's biggest strength, and whether it's going to survive release.

    There's another wildcard in there regarding an OCX/SEA server. If that has a big enough audience, and a good enough connection, that will make the game for me. If it lacks one or both of those things, it will make it unplayable (server events appear to be based on regional primetime, so NA server would not be an option).

    Lol u play gw2 and shutter at player characters in ff14, why? Dragoons,machinists, wars,pally's, red mage, ninja, samurai, gun blades, dark knights, monks etc are all way more interesting than gw2 specs lol and have way better animations. Guess opinions vary haha
    Then again I guess gw2 trailers are indeed better than ff14 trailers....... lolz

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why? Because the anime aesthetic they went with is... eww.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ben K.6238 said:
    Why? Because the anime aesthetic they went with is... eww.

    Ahhh fair enough, I for one like the art style more then gw2 as I find even the lighting and music to be far superior to gw2
    But that said there are a lot of people who prefer a more western style.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ben K.6238 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    Lol its imo the best pve, dungeon and trial experience I've had and I've played gw2,eso,bdo,archeage, lotro, tera, rift and a small amount of wow. I didnt play enough of wow to be able to compare to much. But as much as I love ff14 as I said if u just want to pvp definitely dont choose ff14 lol.

    Yup.

    FF14 is definitely worth getting into if you want actual good and meaty PvE content. WoW is as well, I'd say they are both on the same level. Complain all you want about the combat mechanics (tab target), I used to be of that same mindset...you get over it real quick once you realize those games actually have content worth doing and worth repeating both for the sake of challenging yourself and a group as well as rewards, which is not something GW2 can boast of with its PvE.

    As someone who's really not into group PvE content, that makes it a bit easier for me. I've heard good things about FF14 but every time I look at trailers I shudder at the player characters.

    AoC looks very promising from a WvW perspective - in my opinion, the core system sounds like what I thought GW2's WvW should have been from launch. The only things I'm still unconvinced by are the combat system, which is GW2's biggest strength, and whether it's going to survive release.

    There's another wildcard in there regarding an OCX/SEA server. If that has a big enough audience, and a good enough connection, that will make the game for me. If it lacks one or both of those things, it will make it unplayable (server events appear to be based on regional primetime, so NA server would not be an option).

    It should be pointed out that AoCs large scale combat, from how it is described and their intentions with it, will be an entirely different beast from GW2 WvW. It will be more akin to what people are used to in games like BDO and AA. That is also the kind of guilds it will attract. The massive guilds from either of those games will flock to AoC come its release, and they will all most likely be vying for control over the most territory or castles and attempting to monopolize them, as well as potentially even grief or "oppress" other smaller guilds. There will also more than likely be a plethora of drama and other such nonsense from all of the guild politics, which does 100% include guilds making large multi guild alliances with one another.

    Now I am good with these things, though I am still unsure whether or not I will even be playing the game, as that is the stuff I am not only accustomed to after having played similar games, but what I have also enjoyed the most out of MMORPGs to some degree. Not so much the drama or anything like that, necessarily, but more the guild on guild violence that is born from it. And by extension the alliance on alliance violence. Its PvP and I like PvP.

    All of these things, at least to my understanding of how GW2s WvW has existed over these last 8 years, are completely alien things to not only its players but also its guilds. They have had little to no reason to bother with alliances between guilds, there is literally no point to it, and the guild politics between opposing guilds is there...but it does not get to the point that you see it in games like BDO and AA. You can't hunt down and gank, for repeated days and even weeks, other guilds and their players in GW2, that is why I have always cringed at anyone referring to getting killed by multiple people in WvW as "ganking". You're voluntarily joining a PvP mode which means you are essentially acknowledging "Imma get killed at some point by a mob of people" just by the sheer nature of WvW as a mode. If someone whom has only experienced GW2 suddenly decides to pick up AoC and is not prepared for these things, whenever the game actually releases, then they are going to be in for quite a culture shock. It gets brutal. Like I have been someone who has said GW2s PvP crowd gets rather unnecessarily toxic and is probably one of the more toxic in the genre, I still 100% believe that. However games like AA and BDO take that to an entirely different level because there is way more at stake, relatively speaking, in regards to holding castles and territories and the like. The general WvW crowd from GW2 is not equipped for stuff like that if a random whisper from Toxic Random #7 is all that is needed to get someones britches all bunched up.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I need Diablo 4. :3

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Why would you play something that will be worse than PoE? PoE beats any Diablo.

    Με χίλια ονόματα, μία χάρη, ακρίτας ειτ’ αρματολός, αντάρτης, κλέφτης, παλικάρι; πάντα ειν’ ο ίδιος ο λαός.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @diomache.9246 said:
    Why would you play something that will be worse than PoE? PoE beats any Diablo.

    It's the story im after. I don't really care about anything else. I played it all and I want to see what happens next. It's a shut up and take my money moment for me

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Ben K.6238 said:

    As someone who's really not into group PvE content, that makes it a bit easier for me. I've heard good things about FF14 but every time I look at trailers I shudder at the player characters.

    AoC looks very promising from a WvW perspective - in my opinion, the core system sounds like what I thought GW2's WvW should have been from launch. The only things I'm still unconvinced by are the combat system, which is GW2's biggest strength, and whether it's going to survive release.

    There's another wildcard in there regarding an OCX/SEA server. If that has a big enough audience, and a good enough connection, that will make the game for me. If it lacks one or both of those things, it will make it unplayable (server events appear to be based on regional primetime, so NA server would not be an option).

    It should be pointed out that AoCs large scale combat, from how it is described and their intentions with it, will be an entirely different beast from GW2 WvW. It will be more akin to what people are used to in games like BDO and AA. That is also the kind of guilds it will attract. The massive guilds from either of those games will flock to AoC come its release, and they will all most likely be vying for control over the most territory or castles and attempting to monopolize them, as well as potentially even grief or "oppress" other smaller guilds. There will also more than likely be a plethora of drama and other such nonsense from all of the guild politics, which does 100% include guilds making large multi guild alliances with one another.

    Now I am good with these things, though I am still unsure whether or not I will even be playing the game, as that is the stuff I am not only accustomed to after having played similar games, but what I have also enjoyed the most out of MMORPGs to some degree. Not so much the drama or anything like that, necessarily, but more the guild on guild violence that is born from it. And by extension the alliance on alliance violence. Its PvP and I like PvP.

    All of these things, at least to my understanding of how GW2s WvW has existed over these last 8 years, are completely alien things to not only its players but also its guilds. They have had little to no reason to bother with alliances between guilds, there is literally no point to it, and the guild politics between opposing guilds is there...but it does not get to the point that you see it in games like BDO and AA. You can't hunt down and gank, for repeated days and even weeks, other guilds and their players in GW2, that is why I have always cringed at anyone referring to getting killed by multiple people in WvW as "ganking". You're voluntarily joining a PvP mode which means you are essentially acknowledging "Imma get killed at some point by a mob of people" just by the sheer nature of WvW as a mode. If someone whom has only experienced GW2 suddenly decides to pick up AoC and is not prepared for these things, whenever the game actually releases, then they are going to be in for quite a culture shock. It gets brutal. Like I have been someone who has said GW2s PvP crowd gets rather unnecessarily toxic and is probably one of the more toxic in the genre, I still 100% believe that. However games like AA and BDO take that to an entirely different level because there is way more at stake, relatively speaking, in regards to holding castles and territories and the like. The general WvW crowd from GW2 is not equipped for stuff like that if a random whisper from Toxic Random #7 is all that is needed to get someones britches all bunched up.

    Yeah, that's basically why I'm interested in it. The scope of GW2's WvW is basically PvP Conquest with walls, and its shallow nature with a reset every week meant the combat was the only facet I particularly enjoyed. There's nothing meaningful at stake. It was actually a step down from what I'd played before, including one game that wasn't technically a MMO.

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2020

    In gw2 people always wanna fight. I always try to teach players that main thing in PvP is annoy enemy. Always think what enemy wanna do and do opposite. Yesterday i did run away one dude like 3 hours. He was salty and didn't understand why i play pvp if i don't fight. Good pvp game need little bit hate and gw2 doesn't have it.
    B)

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @TeqkOneStylez.8047 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    GW2 really isnt its competition there, WoW is and yeah... you know... like trying to topple a building with your face. Even if its an incredibly good game, the sub fee will instantly stop it going viral, sort of speak.

    Ya that sub fee and "WoW style play" really knee capped FF14

    Ok so then there are another competitor. Another game they have to beat in terms of gameplay and features. That's worse.

    It's not hard to beat ff14's disco dance floor combat.

    Which begs another question. With gw2 combat being far more superior than ff14 combat, ur opinion clearly but not mine, why even though ff14 cost way more and is sub based does it enjoy a far higher over all player base? other than the combat mechanics gw2 must be failing some kind of hard on other aspects of its game for this to have happened lol.

    That's pretty much how I see it. I tried FFXIV, but that monster 2.5s GCD is just out of this world stupid to me and I didn't get any further than that. I'm sure it's an excellent game otherwise and does all kinds of stuff right that GW2 gets wrong, hence the larger playerbase despite a subscription fee. I believe WoW is the same way. I tried ESO, too. Same thing.

    GW2 has way better combat and does a lot of things right. But I wouldn't call it a great game overall and it's run with no consistency and a weak development cycle when it is on schedule. I'm sure people who play these other games have legitimate reasons to prefer them over GW2. But for me, the combat here is just so much better I haven't been able to get into the others.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭
    • Had amazing combat.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Smoosh.2718Smoosh.2718 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Lol u play gw2 and shutter at player characters in ff14, why? Dragoons,machinists, wars,pally's, red mage, ninja, samurai, gun blades, dark knights, monks etc are all way more interesting than gw2 specs lol and have way better animations. Guess opinions vary haha
    Then again I guess gw2 trailers are indeed better than ff14 trailers....... lolz

    As someone who has played FFXIV, some of the animations are good.. however the animations or totally aweful as soon as you start moving.
    The combat is slow and sluggish and boss fights are just DDR with weapons. Don't get me wrong the game is good, the story is good, so is GW2. GW2 admitivly spoils the player with the combat system, the dodge system, the customisation, maps, mounts vast amounts of content to go through.

    The only thing that FFXIV really has over GW2 (Please be a thing with tail capes!) is the catgirls Miqo'te.

    Also never bother with FFXIV's pvp... It is the worst experience you'll ever have. Also if you think bunkers are a problem in GW2, say hello to the healers in FFXIV which cant be killed until the raid party attack at once for more than a minute to finally take them down.

  • Kurowolfe.7124Kurowolfe.7124 Member ✭✭
    edited July 24, 2020

    Well, from what I understand, FFXIV recently increased the FtP level cap from 35 to 60, and opened up the first expansion Heavensward for free play as well, possibly to pull in more players. It certainly is a lucrative aspect for me, since I actually played FFXIV FtP a bit because I wanted to follow my friends who left GW2 and went to do raids there instead.

    But when I remember just how lonely I felt trying to level up my Mi'qote Pugilist in Ul'dah and its surrounding areas with almost no player chatter in the world map, with my 'friends' nowhere in sight to help despite them asking me to level up quickly so that we can do the end-game raids together, I stopped myself. FFXIV has a very interesting story from what I played so far (level 25) yes, and even the small sidequests and FATEs you find seem interesting, but oftentimes you almost have no interaction with anyone else at all, since the game focuses more on end-game content (almost exclusively raids, I never even knew it has a PvP lol). The supposed 'mentor' icons around just sit there and do nothing.

    GW2 is different, it felt more lively in PvE, at least in Central Tyria's hubworld anyway. I started FtP as well, and there's always something happening around when leveling. Map, and even say chatter, is usually there. You can ask questions, and usually you can get a good answer and guide, amidst all the troll answers. I'm surprised that Queensdale still has a few mentor tags running around even after that exodus from that one MMO game some time ago, welcoming new players and doing guild recruitment. Other starter maps also usually have some people running around no matter what time, usually willing to help in doing quests together. The community has changed probably for the worse within the 4 years I've been playing, but it's still welcoming and lively. It's one main strength that GW2 has over FFXIV I feel; the sense of community even within the starter and hub areas.

    I ended up falling down the WvW hole, and I have made my points on what I experience and feel in the 2-3 years I've been doing it in a post before. It's not great, but the sense of community, while dying, is still there. I usually log on just to meet up with my guildmates and some servermates and chat nonsense or catch up on news while we fight others. I also usually like reading whatever nonsense that is in the teamchat and mapchat, whether it be drama, rant or even goofiness. I never felt alone in there; it's probably the reason why I stuck on with it despite WvW in general being stuck in a rut and being shafted aside. And if it fails, I can always return to doing map completion, where there'll be people around as well.

    Side note: another thing I like about GW2 more than FFXIV is the player character races. In FFXIV, you get 8 different kind of humans that barely any different from one another (except the Lalefell, which really bugs me since they look like they would attract a very deviant sort of crowd). GW2 at least has more variety in builds, even if humans and norn are pretty much the same, and sylvari being 50/50 human with plant skin and hair. The other races are more varied as well (hoping for tengu or even skritt playable race lol)

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kurowolfe.7124 said:
    Well, from what I understand, FFXIV recently increased the FtP level cap from 35 to 60, and opened up the first expansion Heavensward for free play as well, possibly to pull in more players. It certainly is a lucrative aspect for me, since I actually played FFXIV FtP a bit because I wanted to follow my friends who left GW2 and went to do raids there instead.

    But when I remember just how lonely I felt trying to level up my Mi'qote Pugilist in Ul'dah and its surrounding areas with almost no player chatter in the world map, with my 'friends' nowhere in sight to help despite them asking me to level up quickly so that we can do the end-game raids together, I stopped myself. FFXIV has a very interesting story from what I played so far (level 25) yes, and even the small sidequests and FATEs you find seem interesting, but oftentimes you almost have no interaction with anyone else at all, since the game focuses more on end-game content (almost exclusively raids, I never even knew it has a PvP lol). The supposed 'mentor' icons around just sit there and do nothing.

    GW2 is different, it felt more lively in PvE, at least in Central Tyria's hubworld anyway. I started FtP as well, and there's always something happening around when leveling. Map, and even say chatter, is usually there. You can ask questions, and usually you can get a good answer and guide, amidst all the troll answers. I'm surprised that Queensdale still has a few mentor tags running around even after that exodus from that one MMO game some time ago, welcoming new players and doing guild recruitment. Other starter maps also usually have some people running around no matter what time, usually willing to help in doing quests together. The community has changed probably for the worse within the 4 years I've been playing, but it's still welcoming and lively. It's one main strength that GW2 has over FFXIV I feel; the sense of community even within the starter and hub areas.

    I ended up falling down the WvW hole, and I have made my points on what I experience and feel in the 2-3 years I've been doing it in a post before. It's not great, but the sense of community, while dying, is still there. I usually log on just to meet up with my guildmates and some servermates and chat nonsense or catch up on news while we fight others. I also usually like reading whatever nonsense that is in the teamchat and mapchat, whether it be drama, rant or even goofiness. I never felt alone in there; it's probably the reason why I stuck on with it despite WvW in general being stuck in a rut and being shafted aside. And if it fails, I can always return to doing map completion, where there'll be people around as well.

    Side note: another thing I like about GW2 more than FFXIV is the player character races. In FFXIV, you get 8 different kind of humans that barely any different from one another (except the Lalefell, which really bugs me since they look like they would attract a very deviant sort of crowd). GW2 at least has more variety in builds, even if humans and norn are pretty much the same, and sylvari being 50/50 human with plant skin and hair. The other races are more varied as well (hoping for tengu or even skritt playable race lol)

    Hmmmm strange every starting zone and town are on my server is flooded with tones of players constantly, infact I have a queue every time I log. Dungeon etc are a big part that put u with 4+ players and sometimes 20+ for certain trials so imo ur almost forced into party play. I always see others running around in maps and free companies always having discussions in chat and asking me.bers for advice and assistance in dungeon, raids etc, weird u felt lonely, that sucks.