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Are grenades ever going to be toned down?

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  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tinkerer.2167 said:
    the problem isnt the grenades, core can get same nade dmg but you have to run rifle and make many sacrifices ... holo doesn't ... the issue with holo is being able to do that dmg and sustaining and have massive roaming potential which core can't do with rifle for example.

    id like to see actual holo specific issues get nerfed and not make core worse of a choice than it already is.

    This, they have to nerf crystal zephyr trait to grant superspeed only when hit a target, or only in combat or only when over a certain heat threshold and prolly increase holo leap cd in 20%

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khalisto.5780 said:

    @Tinkerer.2167 said:
    the problem isnt the grenades, core can get same nade dmg but you have to run rifle and make many sacrifices ... holo doesn't ... the issue with holo is being able to do that dmg and sustaining and have massive roaming potential which core can't do with rifle for example.

    id like to see actual holo specific issues get nerfed and not make core worse of a choice than it already is.

    This, they have to nerf crystal zephyr trait to grant superspeed only when hit a target, or only in combat or only when over a certain heat threshold and prolly increase holo leap cd in 20%

    or bring back swiftness to it and make it give some superspeed like 1s. so holo doesnt stroll around with perma superspeed, instead they gain SOME superspeed with rest being swiftness

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Khalisto.5780 said:

    @Tinkerer.2167 said:
    the problem isnt the grenades, core can get same nade dmg but you have to run rifle and make many sacrifices ... holo doesn't ... the issue with holo is being able to do that dmg and sustaining and have massive roaming potential which core can't do with rifle for example.

    id like to see actual holo specific issues get nerfed and not make core worse of a choice than it already is.

    This, they have to nerf crystal zephyr trait to grant superspeed only when hit a target, or only in combat or only when over a certain heat threshold and prolly increase holo leap cd in 20%

    or bring back swiftness to it and make it give some superspeed like 1s. so holo doesnt stroll around with perma superspeed, instead they gain SOME superspeed with rest being swiftness

    That was exactly my suggestion, as holo leap already provides switness without any trait. It could get superspeed from holo leap only when holo form turns red, that alone would decrease the superspeed uptime a lot and bring some risk when trying to perma superspeed

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Crozame.4098 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

    Idk, grenade barrage seems to murder health bars on every spec, not just Holo.

    Grenade barrage is one of engineer's hardest hitting skills, of course it will deal a good burst of damage.
    But in PvP, the total power scaling of the ability if all grenades hit is 2,4. Before the last patch, it hit for 3,0, they nerfed the damage of the ability by 20% already.

    How much more do you want it to get nerfed exactly? Grenade barrage is supposed to be one of engineer's burstier skills, considering that it does nothing else but damage.

    High heat Sword 2? Holo 1234? Rampage 13? Oh and there are other grenade skills.... You have many burst skills, so each of them should be tuned down.

    None of those are burst (and Holo 4 is outright bad).

    all of them are burst tho..that's why super speed is now meta instead of barrier, because holo will constantly bursting you and he will kill you before his sustain runs out.
    specially paired with explosive entrance

    Have we ... have we changed the meaning of "burst" to mean "any damage at all"? What, are autoattacks burst now? Thats not "bursting". Thats "doing damage".

    nothing have changed, just you have no idea how to play it, nor have met anyone who truely knows how to in your current rating

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Crozame.4098 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

    Idk, grenade barrage seems to murder health bars on every spec, not just Holo.

    Grenade barrage is one of engineer's hardest hitting skills, of course it will deal a good burst of damage.
    But in PvP, the total power scaling of the ability if all grenades hit is 2,4. Before the last patch, it hit for 3,0, they nerfed the damage of the ability by 20% already.

    How much more do you want it to get nerfed exactly? Grenade barrage is supposed to be one of engineer's burstier skills, considering that it does nothing else but damage.

    High heat Sword 2? Holo 1234? Rampage 13? Oh and there are other grenade skills.... You have many burst skills, so each of them should be tuned down.

    None of those are burst (and Holo 4 is outright bad).

    all of them are burst tho..that's why super speed is now meta instead of barrier, because holo will constantly bursting you and he will kill you before his sustain runs out.
    specially paired with explosive entrance

    Have we ... have we changed the meaning of "burst" to mean "any damage at all"? What, are autoattacks burst now? Thats not "bursting". Thats "doing damage".

    nothing have changed, just you have no idea how to play it, nor have met anyone who truely knows how to in your current rating

    If you consider an auto attack with 0,4 power coefficient as burst and are serious about it, then ok, basically everything in the game is burst at that point.

  • wasss.1208wasss.1208 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    If you consider an auto attack with 0,4 power coefficient as burst and are serious about it, then ok, basically everything in the game is burst at that point.

    Putting out the numbers, so people who don't know how to look it up, or too lazy to check can see it, too:
    The holo chain is 0.4 -> 0.66 -> 1.06. Nade is 3x0.33, sword is 0.586 -> 0.63 -> 1.0, mortar 0.85
    And for reference: the other engineer weapons are: Rifle 0.44, Pistol 0.266 (+6 sec bleeding)

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Crozame.4098 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

    Idk, grenade barrage seems to murder health bars on every spec, not just Holo.

    Grenade barrage is one of engineer's hardest hitting skills, of course it will deal a good burst of damage.
    But in PvP, the total power scaling of the ability if all grenades hit is 2,4. Before the last patch, it hit for 3,0, they nerfed the damage of the ability by 20% already.

    How much more do you want it to get nerfed exactly? Grenade barrage is supposed to be one of engineer's burstier skills, considering that it does nothing else but damage.

    High heat Sword 2? Holo 1234? Rampage 13? Oh and there are other grenade skills.... You have many burst skills, so each of them should be tuned down.

    None of those are burst (and Holo 4 is outright bad).

    all of them are burst tho..that's why super speed is now meta instead of barrier, because holo will constantly bursting you and he will kill you before his sustain runs out.
    specially paired with explosive entrance

    Have we ... have we changed the meaning of "burst" to mean "any damage at all"? What, are autoattacks burst now? Thats not "bursting". Thats "doing damage".

    nothing have changed, just you have no idea how to play it, nor have met anyone who truely knows how to in your current rating

    Yeah because "knowing how to play" magically turns a 0.4 scaling attack into "burst". Again, you are literally defining autoattacks as burst. You are defining doing any damage at burst. Better watch out for that Ranger, he is bursting every second!!!1!1!

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Crozame.4098 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

    Idk, grenade barrage seems to murder health bars on every spec, not just Holo.

    Grenade barrage is one of engineer's hardest hitting skills, of course it will deal a good burst of damage.
    But in PvP, the total power scaling of the ability if all grenades hit is 2,4. Before the last patch, it hit for 3,0, they nerfed the damage of the ability by 20% already.

    How much more do you want it to get nerfed exactly? Grenade barrage is supposed to be one of engineer's burstier skills, considering that it does nothing else but damage.

    High heat Sword 2? Holo 1234? Rampage 13? Oh and there are other grenade skills.... You have many burst skills, so each of them should be tuned down.

    None of those are burst (and Holo 4 is outright bad).

    all of them are burst tho..that's why super speed is now meta instead of barrier, because holo will constantly bursting you and he will kill you before his sustain runs out.
    specially paired with explosive entrance

    Have we ... have we changed the meaning of "burst" to mean "any damage at all"? What, are autoattacks burst now? Thats not "bursting". Thats "doing damage".

    nothing have changed, just you have no idea how to play it, nor have met anyone who truely knows how to in your current rating

    Yeah because "knowing how to play" magically turns a 0.4 scaling attack into "burst". Again, you are literally defining autoattacks as burst. You are defining doing any damage at burst. Better watch out for that Ranger, he is bursting every second!!!1!1!

    yea, you have no idea, it's fine.

  • Zeesh.7286Zeesh.7286 Member ✭✭

    Wish we had haha reacts in GW2 forums so I could laugh at people quoting power coefficients and asking for burst definitions. No one here is a baby. We all know what burst is how overtuned the Holo Damage is in spvp. Its one thing to deal 4k crits on skills with 12 second cool downs. Its another level altogether when its a 6 sec CD and you have 99 other skills dealing 4k crits and all of them are available to chain within 2 secs. Explosive entrance can crit for 3k. It refreshes on a single kitten dodge instantly. That's your auto attack burst that you were asking people to explain. For reference, the hardest hitting Weaver skills are locked behind clunky animations and attunement swaps which have 3 sec cooldowns. Fresh air would burst because it reset the attunement to zero for air and had instant cast skills so you were able to quickly unload heavy hitting skills. With Holo its the same, Grenade Kits and Holo forge are instant access. No time constraints like weaver where after hitting a skill you gotta wait 3 secs to swap to hit the other burst skill. Pop explosive entrance + grenade barrage +corona burst + holo 1,2,3,4 whatever any order you want. Its all bam bam bam. Everything is available then and there to pop as quickly as your fingers can move.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Crozame.4098 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

    Idk, grenade barrage seems to murder health bars on every spec, not just Holo.

    Grenade barrage is one of engineer's hardest hitting skills, of course it will deal a good burst of damage.
    But in PvP, the total power scaling of the ability if all grenades hit is 2,4. Before the last patch, it hit for 3,0, they nerfed the damage of the ability by 20% already.

    How much more do you want it to get nerfed exactly? Grenade barrage is supposed to be one of engineer's burstier skills, considering that it does nothing else but damage.

    High heat Sword 2? Holo 1234? Rampage 13? Oh and there are other grenade skills.... You have many burst skills, so each of them should be tuned down.

    None of those are burst (and Holo 4 is outright bad).

    all of them are burst tho..that's why super speed is now meta instead of barrier, because holo will constantly bursting you and he will kill you before his sustain runs out.
    specially paired with explosive entrance

    Have we ... have we changed the meaning of "burst" to mean "any damage at all"? What, are autoattacks burst now? Thats not "bursting". Thats "doing damage".

    nothing have changed, just you have no idea how to play it, nor have met anyone who truely knows how to in your current rating

    Yeah because "knowing how to play" magically turns a 0.4 scaling attack into "burst". Again, you are literally defining autoattacks as burst. You are defining doing any damage at burst. Better watch out for that Ranger, he is bursting every second!!!1!1!

    yea, you have no idea, it's fine.

    You know, attempting to deflect when people point out that you are completely wrong doesnt stop that, it just makes you look like a fool unwilling to admit he was wrong. The one who "has no idea" to put it in your words is the guy who seriously defines autoattacks as burst. Aka you.

  • I can only quote the talk in wvw yesteraday. Grenades doing a lot of dmg but flamethrower is better I'm doing 50% of my dmg just with that as one of the top dpsler

  • mes.4607mes.4607 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2020

    Good start anet (7/28 patch). Will see how this grenade change actually is live... Take a look at explosive entrance too