Why no holo mordrem in Dragon Bash? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Why no holo mordrem in Dragon Bash?

I know the festival ended a week ago, but I feel this needs to be brought up before next year's Dragon Bash the issue of, with the exception of the vinetooth, why there aren't any holographic mordrem mobs. I could understand not having them last year, since it had been years since they've even touched on those models, but for the second year, where, one would assume, they had to have had some time to create some holo variants of mordrem, just feels a bit odd to say the least.

In conclusion, it would be greatly appreciated if we could get an answer to why these dragon minions are excluded from the festival and if it is at all possible to add them in next year?

Thank you for your time

Comments

  • Taril.8619Taril.8619 Member ✭✭✭

    Probably because Dragon Bash, along with the rest of Central Tyria, is still in the pre-Zhaitan's death Time Bubble.

    Which means, pre-Mordremoth awakening and thus no reason for Mordrem minions to be a common occurance enough to be utilized in a fun activity such as a festival.

    It's also why many of the NPC's are constantly talking about how ALL DRAGONS ARE EVIL despite PoF/LW4 highlighting Glint, Aurene and to an extent Vlast (Though, people wouldn't know much about Vlast back in Hoelbrak... Even as a norn commander, people aren't going to be singing songs about "That time you got rekt by a god and almost killed sitting on your butt until a dragon saved you")

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  • @Taril.8619 said:
    Probably because Dragon Bash, along with the rest of Central Tyria, is still in the pre-Zhaitan's death Time Bubble.

    Which means, pre-Mordremoth awakening and thus no reason for Mordrem minions to be a common occurance enough to be utilized in a fun activity such as a festival.

    If that were the case, then why is Kralk being projected in the sky and not Zhaitan?

  • Taril.8619Taril.8619 Member ✭✭✭

    @Headcase.4618 said:

    @Taril.8619 said:
    Probably because Dragon Bash, along with the rest of Central Tyria, is still in the pre-Zhaitan's death Time Bubble.

    Which means, pre-Mordremoth awakening and thus no reason for Mordrem minions to be a common occurance enough to be utilized in a fun activity such as a festival.

    If that were the case, then why is Kralk being projected in the sky and not Zhaitan?

    Kralk still existed pre-Zhaitan's death. And was notable for having rekt a lot of Ascalonian regions. (As well as the whole Destiny's Edge thing where they went to try and kill Kralk)

    Also, the first time anyone saw Zhaitan, was when we killed him. So literally there cannot be a hologram of Zhaitan since no-one knows what he looks like.

    There could have maybe been a hologram of Jormag or Primordus instead, but Kralk has been the most visible of the Elder Dragons.

    Cat: Meow.

  • Headcase.4618Headcase.4618 Member ✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020

    @Taril.8619 said:

    Kralk still existed pre-Zhaitan's death. And was notable for having rekt a lot of Ascalonian regions. (As well as the whole Destiny's Edge thing where they went to try and kill Kralk)

    Also, the first time anyone saw Zhaitan, was when we killed him. So literally there cannot be a hologram of Zhaitan since no-one knows what he looks like.

    There could have maybe been a hologram of Jormag or Primordus instead, but Kralk has been the most visible of the Elder Dragons.

    Let me restate my question then, if this is pre-Zhaitan's death, then why have a Dragon Bash at all? Remember, the first bash came about canonically because of Zhaitan's death (which led into the appearance of the Aetherblades, but that's another story) The current festival returned after Kralk's death, which happened long after Mordremoth died in HoT. Any way you slice it, there is no lore-based explanation as to why they wouldn't be included in the festival

    P.S. Kralk was not as visible as you suggest, cuz during that time, he was supposedly in hiding recovering from his fight with Destiny's Edge

  • Taril.8619Taril.8619 Member ✭✭✭

    @Headcase.4618 said:

    @Taril.8619 said:

    Kralk still existed pre-Zhaitan's death. And was notable for having rekt a lot of Ascalonian regions. (As well as the whole Destiny's Edge thing where they went to try and kill Kralk)

    Also, the first time anyone saw Zhaitan, was when we killed him. So literally there cannot be a hologram of Zhaitan since no-one knows what he looks like.

    There could have maybe been a hologram of Jormag or Primordus instead, but Kralk has been the most visible of the Elder Dragons.

    Let me restate my question then, if this is pre-Zhaitan's death, then why have a Dragon Bash at all? Remember, the first bash came about canonically because of Zhaitan's death (which led into the appearance of the Aetherblades, but that's another story)

    Dragon Bash was about showing resistance to Dragons.

    "Lion’s Arch honors the defiant spirit of its citizenry with the rousing Dragon Bash festival, when revelers laugh in the face of fear!" - The official website

    Which doesn't necessarily require having killed Zhaitan, only that people are resisting Elder Dragons (Which they have been for generations, sylvari and humans have been dealing with Zhaitan encroaching on their territories, norn have been dealing with Jormag's influence, charr have been dealing with Kralkatorrik and asura are literally only on the surface to begin with due to Primodus)

    @Headcase.4618 said:
    The current festival returned after Kralk's death, which happened long after Mordremoth died in HoT.

    Except that's not how time bubbles work. Central Tyria is still pre-Zhaitan death.

    Whether or not the in-game activity is celebrating Zhatian's death in the story, or Krakatorrik's death in the story, the NPC's of the world are still in a time period before any Elder Dragon deaths.

    Hence why even in the original 2013 event, it still featured Kralk holograms:

    Despite being way before even HoT, let alone PoF LW4 when Kralk was actually killed.

    @Headcase.4618 said:
    P.S. Kralk was not as visible as you suggest, cuz during that time, he was supposedly in hiding recovering from his fight with Destiny's Edge

    It doesn't matter if he was active at that specific time or not. Since the holograms aren't based on using live targets to create them.

    All that matters is if people would know what he looked like so to be able to design a hologram about him. To which, Kralk has been the most visible of the Elder Dragons.

    Cat: Meow.

  • @Taril.8619 said:

    @Headcase.4618 said:

    @Taril.8619 said:

    Kralk still existed pre-Zhaitan's death. And was notable for having rekt a lot of Ascalonian regions. (As well as the whole Destiny's Edge thing where they went to try and kill Kralk)

    Also, the first time anyone saw Zhaitan, was when we killed him. So literally there cannot be a hologram of Zhaitan since no-one knows what he looks like.

    There could have maybe been a hologram of Jormag or Primordus instead, but Kralk has been the most visible of the Elder Dragons.

    Let me restate my question then, if this is pre-Zhaitan's death, then why have a Dragon Bash at all? Remember, the first bash came about canonically because of Zhaitan's death (which led into the appearance of the Aetherblades, but that's another story)

    Dragon Bash was about showing resistance to Dragons.

    "Lion’s Arch honors the defiant spirit of its citizenry with the rousing Dragon Bash festival, when revelers laugh in the face of fear!" - The official website

    Which doesn't necessarily require having killed Zhaitan, only that people are resisting Elder Dragons (Which they have been for generations, sylvari and humans have been dealing with Zhaitan encroaching on their territories, norn have been dealing with Jormag's influence, charr have been dealing with Kralkatorrik and asura are literally only on the surface to begin with due to Primodus)

    @Headcase.4618 said:
    The current festival returned after Kralk's death, which happened long after Mordremoth died in HoT.

    Except that's not how time bubbles work. Central Tyria is still pre-Zhaitan death.

    Whether or not the in-game activity is celebrating Zhatian's death in the story, or Krakatorrik's death in the story, the NPC's of the world are still in a time period before any Elder Dragon deaths.

    Hence why even in the original 2013 event, it still featured Kralk holograms:

    Despite being way before even HoT, let alone PoF LW4 when Kralk was actually killed.

    @Headcase.4618 said:
    P.S. Kralk was not as visible as you suggest, cuz during that time, he was supposedly in hiding recovering from his fight with Destiny's Edge

    It doesn't matter if he was active at that specific time or not. Since the holograms aren't based on using live targets to create them.

    All that matters is if people would know what he looked like so to be able to design a hologram about him. To which, Kralk has been the most visible of the Elder Dragons.

    First off, that's the Shatterer, not Kralk

    Second; Here's the timeline for season 1 which shows that the first dragon bash occurred after Last Stand at Southsun, which, among other events, occurred post-zhaitan's death
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World_Season_1#Dragon_Bash

    But if you want to talk strictly lore, then there are two things you need to consider; 1 is the Vinetooth boss in the Dragon Arena, a creature that was not seen or heard of in the first bash until HoT which, again, was post-zhaitan. The second thing is that part of your argument is based on some npcs saying "all dragons are evil." Well yeah, they would believe that given all the centuries of destruction they've caused and just cause Aurene is the only GOOD elder dragon (so far) doesn't mean everyone's gonna automatically believe some are good now. The Charr in Grothmar Valley don't fully trust Aurene and feel threatened by her despite her best intentions. The whole reason the Icebrood Saga is happening because Banger wants his own ED like the Commander has

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020

    @Taril.8619 said:
    Probably because Dragon Bash, along with the rest of Central Tyria, is still in the pre-Zhaitan's death Time Bubble.

    Which means, pre-Mordremoth awakening and thus no reason for Mordrem minions to be a common occurance enough to be utilized in a fun activity such as a festival.

    It's also why many of the NPC's are constantly talking about how ALL DRAGONS ARE EVIL despite PoF/LW4 highlighting Glint, Aurene and to an extent Vlast (Though, people wouldn't know much about Vlast back in Hoelbrak... Even as a norn commander, people aren't going to be singing songs about "That time you got rekt by a god and almost killed sitting on your butt until a dragon saved you")

    This Dragon Bash is set after Kralk was defeated. There is ambient dialogue referring to it being "this years" festival, multiple Elder Dragons killed, plus we have holograms of Vinetooth and Branded Hydras which aren't seen until long after the Zhaitan death time bubble. Plus we have Kralk as the hologram who wasn't really seen in full physical form until LS4 outside of a brief appearance over Ebonhawke in the book and by DE themselves. The original Dragon Bash from LA only had the Shatterer

    As for why there aren't Mordrem minions, yet we have a mordrem boss who only appears deep inside HoT... well I figure it's an oversight there they forgot to fix from last year

    Do bear in mind that whilst Central Tyria is rooted in a time bubble, there are exceptions which include branded rifts, Awakened portals, ley infused bandits, ley line anomalies, Mordrem invasions, revamped Tequatl from Zhaitan's death, a revamped Shatterer caused by Kralk, beetle racing and other things that have mixed with the maps over time. WHilst Hoelbrak is otherwise set in one time period for 11 months of the year, during Dragon Bash it becomes a mixed time bubble

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @Randulf.7614 said:
    This Dragon Bash is set after Kralk was defeated. There is ambient dialogue referring to it being "this years" festival, multiple Elder Dragons killed, plus we have holograms of Vinetooth and Branded Hydras which aren't seen until long after the Zhaitan death time bubble. Plus we have Kralk as the hologram who wasn't really seen in full physical form until LS4 outside of a brief appearance over Ebonhawke in the book and by DE themselves. The original Dragon Bash from LA only had the Shatterer

    As for why there aren't Mordrem minions, yet we have a mordrem boss who only appears deep inside HoT... well I figure it's an oversight there they forgot to fix from last year

    If it is an oversight, then we need to let them know that there's a demand to have it fixed before next year's festival.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Headcase.4618 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    This Dragon Bash is set after Kralk was defeated. There is ambient dialogue referring to it being "this years" festival, multiple Elder Dragons killed, plus we have holograms of Vinetooth and Branded Hydras which aren't seen until long after the Zhaitan death time bubble. Plus we have Kralk as the hologram who wasn't really seen in full physical form until LS4 outside of a brief appearance over Ebonhawke in the book and by DE themselves. The original Dragon Bash from LA only had the Shatterer

    As for why there aren't Mordrem minions, yet we have a mordrem boss who only appears deep inside HoT... well I figure it's an oversight there they forgot to fix from last year

    If it is an oversight, then we need to let them know that there's a demand to have it fixed before next year's festival.

    Agreed and it's not been the first thread since the start of DB on it either. It's more a question of them reading and listening to the feedback. It was also noted last year this was a thing people wanted updated

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @Randulf.7614 said:
    Agreed and it's not been the first thread since the start of DB on it either. It's more a question of them reading and listening to the feedback. It was also noted last year this was a thing people wanted updated

    That's interesting. I can at least say that, based on an interaction I had with one of the devs ingame, that at least one of them is aware of this and also found it to be odd. So now we to make more of them aware of this as well. (and before anyone asks, I won't be naming them here)

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Headcase.4618 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Agreed and it's not been the first thread since the start of DB on it either. It's more a question of them reading and listening to the feedback. It was also noted last year this was a thing people wanted updated

    That's interesting. I can at least say that, based on an interaction I had with one of the devs ingame, that at least one of them is aware of this and also found it to be odd. So now we to make more of them aware of this as well. (and before anyone asks, I won't be naming them here)

    I think it's one of those things to be raised nearer the time next year. It could even be a glitch causing the mordrem versions not to appear or just a design oversight and neither reason were important enough to warrant a fix this time around (although the fact it carried over from last year is a bit odd).

    It doesn't even matter either, it's just one of those weird anomalies. Perhaps they'll leave it this way to keep us guessing about each year!

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    majority Norns don't really give a kitten about Modremoth

    back in GW:EotN you actually had to convince sooooo hard to them that killing destroyers is 'fun', and the 'army' they sent was just 5 >.>

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  • The Fear.3865The Fear.3865 Member ✭✭
    edited July 23, 2020
  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2020

    Its alot more than that. The spawned minions don't match up to their champions, all the music pieces are wrong, etc.

    Whoever put it together didn't know anything about it. And we know its not just because of how much time has passed, since at the end of Descent the champions spawn with the right minions and the right music pieces, even Zhaitan's.

    I have a feeling that festivals are handled by a completely different team.

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  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Its alot more than that. The spawned minions don't match up to their champions, all the music pieces are wrong, etc.

    Whoever put it together didn't know anything about it. And we know its not just because of how much time has passed, since at the end of Descent the champions spawn with the right minions and the right music pieces, even Zhaitan's.

    I have a feeling that festivals are handled by a completely different team.

    Festivals used to be handled by the current events team which may or may not still be the case.

    I dont recall any mobs not matching the champ though apart from the mordrem. The music is randomly selected as far as I can tell. That appears to be deliberate

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    All boss holograms are new, so there's the Vinetooth there. Trash mob holograms however are all from the original first Dragonbash back in 2013. There were no holo models for Mordrem, because it was still pre-HoT, and Anet didn't even have any mordrem models yet. They just never bothered to update that, i guess.

    In short, i doubt it has any deeper meaning, it's just a sideeffect of them trying to recycle old stuff and not realizing in time they don't have the whole set. And not thinking it was something worth putting effort into after they noticed.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Ototo.3214Ototo.3214 Member ✭✭✭

    Thought about it for a second and I wonder if it's because a mordrem minion wave would be significantly more annoying than any of the other minion waves. Like, just imagine being swarmed by things like Modrem wolves, terragriffs, thrashers, menders, and trolls. They're, imo at least, a lot more annoying that the minions from the other waves.

  • Is it also why we don't have Mordremello creams? Like the other dragon-themed candies?