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From A Very Frustrated Veteran Player... (WvW and PvP)

Sammyjoe.4271Sammyjoe.4271 Member ✭✭
edited July 23, 2020 in WvW

I have a serious question.... what is the balance team thinking? I have been playing this game since 2012 and I believe I've hit my breaking point. Tell me how a Recruit or Scout in WvW can kill me a Platinum ranked veteran player? Oh right it's because they play a condi build! Tell me why there is little I can do in a duel with a Deadeye even if I time my rotations and utilities well? Oh right it's because they port everywhere shoot, then stealth on EVERY DODGE. Tell me why the balance team comes out with a HUGE balance patch and nerfs every power build but literally doesn't touch condi?! It blows my mind. Never have I had such disappointment and fear for this game, you gotta balance a game for it to be successful.

I think I speak for everyone when I say condi has been problematic for years now YEARS. I will NEVER run condi, It's a free ticket to wherever you want to go. Cruise? Sure! Take this free ticket! Botswana? Sure! Take this ticket! If you think otherwise you are probably a condi user yourself :D. _The main problem here is _as a power user I pretty much need AT LEAST 2 of the following 3... Power, Precision and Ferocity to do damage since the balance team nerfed it all. This is obviously going to make me squishier unless I invest in Vitality and Toughness which I do but you can't take away from your damage too much in these trying times. So there ya go. Oh wait? More you say? Ok! Now... condi users can say hmmmm... I don't need power, I don't need precision, and I don't need ferocity.. OMG all I need is condi damage to do damage? I don't need power, precision, or ferocity? And they have to dedicate their whole build to removing condi's or they don't even have a 1% chance! WOW I LOVE THIS GAME I KILL EVERYONE! So..... Carl we'll call him only needs condi damage stat. But he needs more than just that. Oh I know lets throw toughness and vitality in there oh and a little healing power? BOOM! Well done Anet. He is now a damage dealing (over time) tank. And I need to run DUAL cleansing sigils, and tons of other condi removals. OH and the ascended food that has -20 condi duration. Oh and don't even get me started on Expertise.

This game use to give me so much enjoyment, I guess It's either time to give up on this game or just play PvE... With 10k hours put into this game I have to say that I am highly disappointed in Anet right now.

Oh and don't @ me saying oh well just run dual cleansing sigils and runes of the anti toxin. No. Stop. I should be able to craft my build without having to do all that, without having to make sure I have at least 14,596 condi removals. PS I do run dual cleansing sigils, just not the runes... Runes of the Fireworks FTW.

<1

Comments

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why is this in General Discussion?

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Why is this in General Discussion?

    Because he made a mistake I guess. But amazingly we can click read and comment on topics even if they are temporarily in the wrong place until a mod moves it.

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭

    Balance team is thinking they can satisfy us by making up a bunch of random stuff every 3-4 months, while probably only spending a week or two coming up with any of it.

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:
    If all you need is condi to do damage, then why isnt vipers meta? The other stats seems useless in countering power builds, right?

    ... right?

    No lol because why not be a tanky DoT dealer? Makes sense to do massive damage and not die :P

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    I will NEVER run condi, It's a free ticket to wherever you want to go.

    I am sorry you are having problems with condi builds. That said though if you truly never run condi builds how did you gauge the nerf that the condi side took with the balance patch? The power reduction was pretty clear a 30% but condi isn't as easily measured since some went longer and lower and some went from something to 0 which would be a 100% reduction. If you don't play condi how do you learn how to fight it or counter it?

    Another point, rank in WvW really doesn't mean anything except you know the maps. But you could take a top tier PvP player and have them step into WvW and they would rock it because if anything they may have gotten more experience from more fights than a WvW player playing the same amount of time. Using WvW rank to gauge how a fight might turn out is a questionable practice.

    The other is please don't compare zerk=CVT, that's apple to oranges. Play both condi and power builds and some hybrids in WvW and no, one group doesn't feel like they crush the other, they all feel like they took a nerf bat after the patch. They also feel like they have more reduced to 11111111111. Part of the patch was to make it more interesting in your timings but it feels like the opposite was achieved, at least to me.

    Again sorry, never good when the thing that you do to relax doesn't relax you, better hunting!

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • not all condi builds are op. in bus fight condi does nearly nothing because of the heavy cleasne spammed everywhere.
    in spvp power builds often perform better than condi ones unless you get in a 1v1 situation..

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    I have a serious question.... what is the balance team thinking? I have been playing this game since 2012 and I believe I've hit my breaking point. Tell me how a Recruit or Scout in WvW can kill me a Platinum ranked veteran player? Oh right it's because they play a condi build! Tell me why there is little I can do in a duel with a Deadeye even if I time my rotations and utilities well? Oh right it's because they port everywhere shoot, then stealth on EVERY DODGE. Tell me why the balance team comes out with a HUGE balance patch and nerfs every power build but literally doesn't touch condi?! It blows my mind. Never have I had such disappointment and fear for this game, you gotta balance a game for it to be successful.

    I think I speak for everyone when I say condi has been problematic for years now YEARS. I will NEVER run condi, It's a free ticket to wherever you want to go. Cruise? Sure! Take this free ticket! Botswana? Sure! Take this ticket! If you think otherwise you are probably a condi user yourself :D. _The main problem here is _as a power user I pretty much need AT LEAST 2 of the following 3... Power, Precision and Ferocity to do damage since the balance team nerfed it all. This is obviously going to make me squishier unless I invest in Vitality and Toughness which I do but you can't take away from your damage too much in these trying times. So there ya go. Oh wait? More you say? Ok! Now... condi users can say hmmmm... I don't need power, I don't need precision, and I don't need ferocity.. OMG all I need is condi damage to do damage? I don't need power, precision, or ferocity? And they have to dedicate their whole build to removing condi's or they don't even have a 1% chance! WOW I LOVE THIS GAME I KILL EVERYONE! So..... Carl we'll call him only needs condi damage stat. But he needs more than just that. Oh I know lets throw toughness and vitality in there oh and a little healing power? BOOM! Well done Anet. He is now a damage dealing (over time) tank. And I need to run DUAL cleansing sigils, and tons of other condi removals. OH and the ascended food that has -20 condi duration. Oh and don't even get me started on Expertise.

    This game use to give me so much enjoyment, I guess It's either time to give up on this game or just play PvE... With 10k hours put into this game I have to say that I am highly disappointed in Anet right now.

    Oh and don't @ me saying oh well just run dual cleansing sigils and runes of the anti toxin. No. Stop. I should be able to craft my build without having to do all that, without having to make sure I have at least 14,596 condi removals. PS I do run dual cleansing sigils, just not the runes... Runes of the Fireworks FTW.

    I don’t run into that many Condi builds in WvW. Most common is probably a firebrand which is the easiest to cleanse. I won’t say run everything anti-condi but I would ask to see your build and figure out what you are running as far as cleanse.

    I don’t run that much cleanse and I’m fine against condi matchups. I’m not total glass, I have roughly 16-17k HP depending on local aura buffs. And I don’t run that much condi cleanse, a targeted Anti-Damage condi cleanse on my heal and a general three condi cleanse on a utility. The key is, like most fights, not to get hit in the first place.

    Also, I think you have a misconception about condi users. Most of the condi users I find dangerous are running some kind of mixed power/condi hybrid. They absolutely use power and precision and benefit from ferocity. They just also do condi damage as well. So they won’t hit as hard as your standard power user but hard enough that by the time all their condi starts ticking hard you are already low enough on HP that it really takes a big chunk out of your remaining HP bar.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • the game is not balanced. some classes are much stronger than others. necros are still very strong and the revenants were out of the curve in the last update

  • @Zefirokai.8735 said:
    the game is not balanced. some classes are much stronger than others. necros are still very strong and the revenants were out of the curve in the last update

    Are we talking about roaming? In that case, nope. Necro is ok, but gets hard-countered by almost any other profession on a roaming build.

    Με χίλια ονόματα, μία χάρη, ακρίτας ειτ’ αρματολός, αντάρτης, κλέφτης, παλικάρι; πάντα ειν’ ο ίδιος ο λαός.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2020

    Condi damage is not a general problem. Some builds that have huge synergies with dire and trailblazer gear are broken. And revenant or burn guard are not among them. It's several forms of p/d thief (even p/d deadeye is broken in wvw) and scourge.

    Bunker condi scourge has a huge skill cap when not running with the zerg and even then is only a problem in 1v1 (and if you are not a longbow soulbeast) and can be facerolled with a 2v1 focus in smallscale. So you don't see it roaming that much - but if you run into one of the better ones, he will just overwhelm you with his tankiness, boonrips, cc and damage over time. Bunker condi thief is the dumbest thing possible. The mix of mobility and sustain is out of control.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    Condi damage is not a general problem. Some builds that have huge synergies with dire and trailblazer gear are broken. And revenant or burn guard are not among them. It's several forms of p/d thief (even p/d deadeye is broken in wvw) and scourge.

    Bunker condi scourge has a huge skill cap when not running with the zerg and even then is only a problem in 1v1 (and if you are not a longbow soulbeast) and can be facerolled with a 2v1 focus in smallscale. So you don't see it roaming that much - but if you run into one of the better ones, he will just overwhelm you with his tankiness, boonrips, cc and damage over time. Bunker condi thief is the dumbest thing possible. The mix of mobility and sustain is out of control.

    By this logic I dont really see how thief and scourge is any "more" broken.

    As you say, the condi scourge is fairly easy to overwhelm with ranged damage where it cant really do much. So how exactly is that broken? It makes it very good at melee, true. So... dont melee? Dont send in your boon heavy builds first? When a ton of people run very boon heavy melee builds then yeah... there's kind of a reason why it become strong.

    The condi thief has a tendancy to become equally inneffective at anything above 1v1 not because you can overwhelm it with damage, but because it does it's damage in bursts that can be continously cleansed and healed. It lacks the ability to follow it up it's attacks. I've seen condi thieves go in and kill some glass cannon with no cleanses relatively fast sure, but then you almost always have time to res them before he comes again (the more the merrier). This is in stark contrast with say a dd staff stomper getting someone down - gg trying to res that guy with someone stomping you in the head for 8k damage every second on a 3K armor build, unless you have invouln.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2020

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    I will NEVER run condi, It's a free ticket to wherever you want to go.

    I am sorry you are having problems with condi builds. That said though if you truly never run condi builds how did you gauge the nerf that the condi side took with the balance patch? The power reduction was pretty clear a 30% but condi isn't as easily measured since some went longer and lower and some went from something to 0 which would be a 100% reduction. If you don't play condi how do you learn how to fight it or counter it?

    Only power and heal were reduced... wich makes conditions optimized since some conditions are excelent bursters, reason condi rev is strong atm and high burn bunkers builds with surviability are also very strong, it was ALWAYTS this strong, we playrs just had more easy access for overperming damage output iwth power, note i play condi rev since and after patch.... it feels weaker cause phsical damage is also less.

    And did i miss any update after that, that changed some conditions?

    Meta (for my experiance in NA) is shifting to a omniblob gameplay with bunker condi and ministrels builds mostly ( with always 2-3 dragon banners used by thiefs and reapers do how they can influence the banner skills with their traits and other stuff),.
    Atrition and condi wars backed up with tons of scrappers and firebrands suporting condi bunkering one will need alot of scrappers on larger gameplay against a group like this, really alot of them, power wont do much dent on such tanky groups.

    Overal condi wise only burn is carrying i dont think condition by itself is OP but theres some builds that can reach overperforming gimick situation, even on large gameplay one will get a high burn tick that will kill u between cleanses due the aoe spammy nature of the game.(try to run a heavy burn condi group and enemy cleanses nor heal wont handle).
    Burn on small scale is way to strong to much strong, torment i think its OK, dont move and call for a cleanse from the support class if one is on cleanse heavy CD, i find some ganking groups rellying on only torment on wet noodle builds... this is idiotic, /dance its the safest option lol to survive :).
    Another issue with this game players tend to spam anything and everything and dont pay atention to support players on the party, the overall squad n spam is what players want to achieve, this is wrong... when one is using cleases and heals and party member are dying on complete diferent position and location.... reason bunkering also becames more eficient, cause u stack fort the squad and spam caus one know will do somehtign to an ally.

    Dont forget that aplying condi stacks with low condi damage will keep stacking but when a hight condi value triggers that number of stacks... those stack will burst tick, burn can achieve 8-10k burns per sec, as non high condi stats player i can matain perma burn ticks of 1k-4k on targets(depenind stacks due target cleansing, but usually i cover up my burn so it will melt after i put target on eavy CD), reason weaver tempests were never a issue for me, perma resistance, heals, and perma burn aplyance will kill everything mostly.

    My wishlist changes:

    +Make burn stack on duration(or with possible to stack 3 lvl's of burn intensivity) keep a strong value since a full stack of vulnerability also increases condi tick by 25% (and im not counting with modifyers nor traits)

    +Frost Aura, reduces burn duration, but increases chill duration(imagine it like being overflowed with coldness).

    +Remove toughness from ministrell gear, aply it to more vitality and boon duration. or something like
    27 power
    27 precision
    30 vitality
    30 concentration
    54 healing power

    +Resistance boon needs a tune(down actually lol) up as well, perma resistance is achievable on condi and power builds, resistance needs to aply +10/20% from melee damage, players want to have perma boon w/o being punishing is wrong, boons need to be used when they were needed rather stack max one can...

    In terms of burn have a static value and stack in uptime would be better, but make skills and trait perform actions on targets sufering from burn, chill on burn would blind, skills that make burning targets also get slowed
    Some class could have a poison bow skill that wheneve poisons area and targe is on fire would apply burn to current target alies...

  • Tao.5096Tao.5096 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2020

    I will tell you how amazing Balancing Team Anet has.

    Warrior has a trait called Cleansing Ire - it cleanses 1 condition per spent Adrenaline Bar (3 total) when hitting any target with Burst skill.
    Warrior has a Berserker Spec, which changes the Burst skill - it changes the mechanic slightly, there is only one big Adrenaline Bar instead of 3, which is very easy to fill during Berserker Mode and in moderate way when that mode is off.

    Anet balance team one day thought that it's too OP, and changed so Cleansing Ire will treat Berserker's Adrenaline Bar as One (1) Single (1) bar.

    To make sure that Cleansing Ire activates, you need to damage enemy player or mob with Burst skill.
    So, if you use it when you're blinded or it will be blocked - you lose all adrenaline you did accumulate, your Burst skill goes down on cooldown and Cleansing Ire didn't activate, so you didn't clean yourself of the conditions.

    Pretty inconvenient, no?

    Well, there is a much better approach.
    Just don't use stupid Berserker, don't use stupid Cleansing Ire...
    Just use Spellbreaker with Revenge Counter trait, where anything that touches you during the counter, will cleanse you off 3 conditions and transfer it to target (Necromancer 2.0). XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
    Doesn't matter if that damage is a burst, spike, or stun or you're blinded or immobilized or poisoned.
    You just need to press it and during 1.5 second window something has to hit you - anything.. XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
    And even if nothing will hit you, you can reapeat it again after couple of seconds of cooldown. XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

    But Cleansing Ire was too stronk according to Anet Balancing Team. XDDDDDD

    We could spend entire week here and count on numerous if not endless ideas they came up for each class with which always, but always did avoid the CORE problem. xDDDDD

    That's how great Anet Balancing Team is creating Meta - oh the wisest of all, endless source of wisdom. XDDDDDDDDDDD

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tao.5096 that's why i never trusted much on Anet making and balancing class over this years... it tends to make no sense at all whey they do and reach.

  • Tao.5096Tao.5096 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    @Tao.5096 that's why i never trusted much on Anet making and balancing class over this years... it tends to make no sense at all whey they do and reach.

    You know,
    I was laughing at Collin and some of his stupid implementations.
    But I have to admit, that he never brought the scene to the point where people are simply just tired of that bs.

    I just wonder, if he was still in Anet, how would the direction go for both PvP and WvW modes, as I assume he had some input, since he was the Game Director.

  • Burn, as a condition, should never be able to burst something down. Make it run 50% longer and lower the damage of the same amount.

    Με χίλια ονόματα, μία χάρη, ακρίτας ειτ’ αρματολός, αντάρτης, κλέφτης, παλικάρι; πάντα ειν’ ο ίδιος ο λαός.

  • Tao.5096Tao.5096 Member ✭✭✭

    @diomache.9246 said:
    Burn, as a condition, should never be able to burst something down. Make it run 50% longer and lower the damage of the same amount.

    Why?
    Wouldn't it be better to force max stack on players up to 5~7 stacks?

    This way it would still be a strong condition with limited source, but it wouldn't eat 50% of your HP pool on one tick anymore.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2020

    @Tao.5096 said:

    @diomache.9246 said:
    Burn, as a condition, should never be able to burst something down. Make it run 50% longer and lower the damage of the same amount.

    Why?
    Wouldn't it be better to force max stack on players up to 5~7 stacks?

    This way it would still be a strong condition with limited source, but it wouldn't eat 50% of your HP pool on one tick anymore.

    Atm only burn can be that overperforming(wich imo atm is the only condi that needs to be looked at), torment can as well but under certain circuntancies.

    Max i can say about torment its should be hex type ot thing, making players who are hexed take damage while moving.... or taking dame while the effects of certain conditions and movinf punising players for get cocky with those condition and not clensing :bleep_bloop: this could help non condi players would help condi players do more damage with this,

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Out of all the classes that can do burning, it's literally only the guard that can reasonably stack it high due to it's specific skills and combo fields. Engineer and eles can technically stack it too, but they require a braindead target. Yet people still look at "capping it" instead of looking at the guard.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • I wouldn't fixate on ranks at all. My wife and I have alt accounts and finally decided to get our warclaws for them. On my main account I am rank 5,990 while my alt is a whopping 58. It was actually pretty funny watching gold/plat/mithril roamers come after me for what they thought was an easy kill against my core warrior only to get spanked hard. That being said, figure out traits/utilities that can mitigate some of that condi and use them at the appropriate time. Good luck!

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Always ignore the rank. I play multiple accts each week (thanks ticket cap), but even with that, the accts are gold, gold, silver, silver and bronze. I have a rank 68 one as well, but I try to pretend it doesn't exit. So if you jump me on the very low bronze acct, you aren't gonna get a free noob kill. That aside, yes, there are some very broken builds in wvw. I just keep hoping that some of the more ridiculous outliers will get adjusted soon.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    I have a serious question.... what is the balance team thinking? I have been playing this game since 2012 and I believe I've hit my breaking point. Tell me how a Recruit or Scout in WvW can kill me a Platinum ranked veteran player? Oh right it's because they play a condi build! Tell me why there is little I can do in a duel with a Deadeye even if I time my rotations and utilities well? Oh right it's because they port everywhere shoot, then stealth on EVERY DODGE. Tell me why the balance team comes out with a HUGE balance patch and nerfs every power build but literally doesn't touch condi?! It blows my mind. Never have I had such disappointment and fear for this game, you gotta balance a game for it to be successful.

    I think I speak for everyone when I say condi has been problematic for years now YEARS. I will NEVER run condi, It's a free ticket to wherever you want to go. Cruise? Sure! Take this free ticket! Botswana? Sure! Take this ticket! If you think otherwise you are probably a condi user yourself :D. _The main problem here is _as a power user I pretty much need AT LEAST 2 of the following 3... Power, Precision and Ferocity to do damage since the balance team nerfed it all. This is obviously going to make me squishier unless I invest in Vitality and Toughness which I do but you can't take away from your damage too much in these trying times. So there ya go. Oh wait? More you say? Ok! Now... condi users can say hmmmm... I don't need power, I don't need precision, and I don't need ferocity.. OMG all I need is condi damage to do damage? I don't need power, precision, or ferocity? And they have to dedicate their whole build to removing condi's or they don't even have a 1% chance! WOW I LOVE THIS GAME I KILL EVERYONE! So..... Carl we'll call him only needs condi damage stat. But he needs more than just that. Oh I know lets throw toughness and vitality in there oh and a little healing power? BOOM! Well done Anet. He is now a damage dealing (over time) tank. And I need to run DUAL cleansing sigils, and tons of other condi removals. OH and the ascended food that has -20 condi duration. Oh and don't even get me started on Expertise.

    This game use to give me so much enjoyment, I guess It's either time to give up on this game or just play PvE... With 10k hours put into this game I have to say that I am highly disappointed in Anet right now.

    Oh and don't @ me saying oh well just run dual cleansing sigils and runes of the anti toxin. No. Stop. I should be able to craft my build without having to do all that, without having to make sure I have at least 14,596 condi removals. PS I do run dual cleansing sigils, just not the runes... Runes of the Fireworks FTW.

    First, rank means nothing. A diamond rank player could be strictly a zerg player while maybe that bronze rank player is an alt roamer or a God of PvP who does a little roaming from time to time.

    Second, you don't speak for everyone. It just seems that way because there are a handful of condi whiners who sit on these forums complaining about condi all day long. Look closely at the names and you will see it's the same people in every thread.

  • ShadowCatz.8437ShadowCatz.8437 Member ✭✭✭

    @diomache.9246 said:
    Burn, as a condition, should never be able to burst something down. Make it run 50% longer and lower the damage of the same amount.

    How would any condi based profession by able to kill before they get bursted down from power build when there is no burst damage from any condition any more?
    In that case condition builds need to be able to completely lock down power players much more, then power builds. I don't think people would like to see that kind of change.

    There is reason why most player in WvW and PvP focus on having as strong condition damage and not too much of expertise as it rather useless when it can be cleansed, negated by resistance (no damage taken during that duration for any kind of condition damage) or regen (HoT that compensate for lost HP).

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They could just be a pvp player that occasionaly does wvw. Or alts. Whatever, the game doesn't take much skill either way, and rank means nothing.

  • Nugget.7203Nugget.7203 Member ✭✭

    ranks mean nothing, and condi is another playstyle, why should you dictate what other people should play? you say you are a veteran player yet you dont see past it. this topic is very sad to all other real veteran players

  • Nugget.7203Nugget.7203 Member ✭✭

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    I have a serious question.... what is the balance team thinking? I have been playing this game since 2012 and I believe I've hit my breaking point. Tell me how a Recruit or Scout in WvW can kill me a Platinum ranked veteran player? Oh right it's because they play a condi build! Tell me why there is little I can do in a duel with a Deadeye even if I time my rotations and utilities well? Oh right it's because they port everywhere shoot, then stealth on EVERY DODGE. Tell me why the balance team comes out with a HUGE balance patch and nerfs every power build but literally doesn't touch condi?! It blows my mind. Never have I had such disappointment and fear for this game, you gotta balance a game for it to be successful.

    I think I speak for everyone when I say condi has been problematic for years now YEARS. I will NEVER run condi, It's a free ticket to wherever you want to go. Cruise? Sure! Take this free ticket! Botswana? Sure! Take this ticket! If you think otherwise you are probably a condi user yourself :D. _The main problem here is _as a power user I pretty much need AT LEAST 2 of the following 3... Power, Precision and Ferocity to do damage since the balance team nerfed it all. This is obviously going to make me squishier unless I invest in Vitality and Toughness which I do but you can't take away from your damage too much in these trying times. So there ya go. Oh wait? More you say? Ok! Now... condi users can say hmmmm... I don't need power, I don't need precision, and I don't need ferocity.. OMG all I need is condi damage to do damage? I don't need power, precision, or ferocity? And they have to dedicate their whole build to removing condi's or they don't even have a 1% chance! WOW I LOVE THIS GAME I KILL EVERYONE! So..... Carl we'll call him only needs condi damage stat. But he needs more than just that. Oh I know lets throw toughness and vitality in there oh and a little healing power? BOOM! Well done Anet. He is now a damage dealing (over time) tank. And I need to run DUAL cleansing sigils, and tons of other condi removals. OH and the ascended food that has -20 condi duration. Oh and don't even get me started on Expertise.

    This game use to give me so much enjoyment, I guess It's either time to give up on this game or just play PvE... With 10k hours put into this game I have to say that I am highly disappointed in Anet right now.

    Oh and don't @ me saying oh well just run dual cleansing sigils and runes of the anti toxin. No. Stop. I should be able to craft my build without having to do all that, without having to make sure I have at least 14,596 condi removals. PS I do run dual cleansing sigils, just not the runes... Runes of the Fireworks FTW.

    and there is a simple answer to your post, git gud

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2020

    Frustration with certain classes is understandable. The developers spend a great deal of time thinking about skill balance, but sadly, the problems come from basic core mechanics and it seems the developers are very reluctant to adjust those.

    Combat is GW2's biggest weakness. The skills are awful, janky, twitchy and unintuitive. There's nothing fun about the combat system. It's a shame because there are a great many positives to discover in the rest of the game.

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain

  • Besetment.9187Besetment.9187 Member ✭✭
    edited July 25, 2020

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    I should be able to craft my build without having to do all that, without having to make sure I have at least 14,596 condi removals.

    Should has nothing to do with it. Do it if it noticeably improves your chance of winning duels or don't. Everything else is just an elaborate and arbitrary excuse for why you are losing and/or consistently finding yourself in unfavourable 1v1s. Thinking like that isn't going to help you win. Sorry to tell you but thats scrub logic.

  • Ben.2160Ben.2160 Member ✭✭
    edited July 25, 2020

    Some of the worst players I've encountered were Diamond rank. Diamond Legend top of the top being some of the worst of all?
    I'm Rank 895/Silver Soldier.

    Rank means nothing. As mentioned it's probably high levels on alt accounts, PvP champs that've popped over to WvW.
    Though this is awkward as several will argue you shouldn't 'pick on' under Bronze ranks.

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭✭

    90% players that i one hit are low rank. B)

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    Tell me how a Recruit or Scout in WvW can kill me a Platinum ranked veteran player?

    Maybe they're just better than you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    That's another weakness in the combat system. There's too much reliance on Skill to determine the outcome of a fight. Where's the fun in that?

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain

  • Sleepwalker.1398Sleepwalker.1398 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Some balance decisions are really weird.
    eg. why give an op class explosive entrance?
    I see many now run in from stealth using grenades for easy kills.

  • Tiawal.2351Tiawal.2351 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2020

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    Tell me how a Recruit or Scout in WvW can kill me a Platinum ranked veteran player?

    PPT ranks have nothing to do with kills

    P.S. The game isn't "balanced" for 1vs1, not even for 5 vs. 5 though intended to be, at least in sPvP mode. Many things are completely broken, since they were made for PvE. Until you can find a better PvP game (or waiting this to be "fixed"), be smart about the class/builds/playstyle you use when countering others.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tiawal.2351 said:

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    Tell me how a Recruit or Scout in WvW can kill me a Platinum ranked veteran player?

    PPT ranks have nothing to do with kills

    PPT rank huh. Thats a new one. Though I suppose its kind of accurate, just like how GvGs has nothing to do with fighting.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 26, 2020

    I don't think rank is a good argument for anything, it probably shouldn't exist to begin with. My rank is about 500, for the first ~7 years of the game it only got up to 300 because roaming gives very little WXP (especially without boosters), and it only started increasing because as the game started running better in Linux I could play in zergs more, where you can rank up literally 100x faster.

    And because I've played RvR games like this for the last 15 years or so my situational awareness and ability to think both strategically and tactically in combat even on a new character or build is quite extensive, especially when outmatched.

    The point is, smurfs exist, and they don't have to be from GW; they can be from other games too. Some things change but alot of things stay the same since games have alot of similar origins (in GW, its DAoC specifically) that you can work with.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 15k hours, ~27k AP | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Alisha Kei/Druid(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW)

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    I will NEVER run condi, It's a free ticket to wherever you want to go.

    I am sorry you are having problems with condi builds. That said though if you truly never run condi builds how did you gauge the nerf that the condi side took with the balance patch? The power reduction was pretty clear a 30% but condi isn't as easily measured since some went longer and lower and some went from something to 0 which would be a 100% reduction. If you don't play condi how do you learn how to fight it or counter it?

    Only power and heal were reduced... wich makes conditions optimized since some conditions are excelent bursters, reason condi rev is strong atm and high burn bunkers builds with surviability are also very strong, it was ALWAYTS this strong, we playrs just had more easy access for overperming damage output iwth power, note i play condi rev since and after patch.... it feels weaker cause phsical damage is also less.

    And did i miss any update after that, that changed some conditions?

    No it was the same update, a number of condis took hits that day as well, it wasn't just power and heal. From the example I cited:

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/98220/game-update-notes-february-25-2020#latest
    One example:
    Spike Trap: Reduced power coefficient from 0.2 to 0.01. Adjusted bleeding from 6 stacks for 6.25 seconds to 1 stack for 1 second. Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 20 seconds.

    So this one in WvW I can say went from 19-21K damage over 12 seconds to a couple of hundred over 1 second. Completely gutted. A number were reduced and either stacks or duration were reduced as well. Again I play power and condi builds and the patch was felt on all toons. Of the 23 alts that were all viable in WvW down to just 2 that didn't feel they need some changes after the fact.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Helicity.3416Helicity.3416 Member ✭✭✭

    @Svarty.8019 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    Tell me how a Recruit or Scout in WvW can kill me a Platinum ranked veteran player?

    Maybe they're just better than you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    That's another weakness in the combat system. There's too much reliance on Skill to determine the outcome of a fight. Where's the fun in that?

    You MUST be joking...

  • Hoon.1524Hoon.1524 Member ✭✭✭

    ofc he's joking... you beat other people down with community spirit and teamwork

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭✭

    so people still look at rank.

    if u played for so long u know most of em oldies used to play a lootstick guard and many others played EoTM which is all fine but rank means kitten, just because some1 is endgame rank doesnt mean he is any good.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2020

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    Rank does not indicate skill, though. It mostly just implies objective flips and kill count, which are metrics of time spent playing in the format. There are a lot of high-WvW-rank players that aren't good.

    For a zerg karma trainer, perhaps.

    For a roamer, neither "objective flips" or "kill counts" mean anything in practice. Because rank indicate exactly one thing - experience.

    I am always vary of high ranked players. Sometimes their knowledge on how to fight me and levrage their build can be more dangerous than any mechanically skilled young whippersnapper... and sometimes they mop the floor with you. It happens.

    It doesnt exactly help that ranks are account bound either. Send the best 10k rank pvp tournament winning thief in the world in on a roaming necro and I'm pretty sure his permastealth teleport style play will be somewhat hampered. I mean necro is the best WvW roamer by popular vote, but still.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    Rank does not indicate skill, though. It mostly just implies objective flips and kill count, which are metrics of time spent playing in the format. There are a lot of high-WvW-rank players that aren't good.

    For a zerg karma trainer, perhaps.

    For a roamer, neither "objective flips" or "kill counts" mean anything in practice. Because rank indicate exactly one thing - experience.

    I am always vary of high ranked players. Sometimes their knowledge on how to fight me and levrage their build can be more dangerous than any mechanically skilled young whippersnapper... and sometimes they mop the floor with you. It happens.

    It doesnt exactly help that ranks are account bound either. Send the best 10k rank pvp tournament winning thief in the world in on a roaming necro and I'm pretty sure his permastealth teleport style play will be somewhat hampered. I mean necro is the best WvW roamer by popular vote, but still.

    That plays the opposite, however.
    Have a zergling on a new build playing a roaming class and his rank will be massively over-valued.

    Even within the scope of roaming, I'll be first to admit I'm an embarrassingly bad ele and always have been - I'm much better at twitch plays and timing on a few skills than tons of button presses in rotation (which is why I'm good at thief and reaper) - so there's no way my rank predicates my combat abilities given how most players without much PvP experience could probably go even with me so long as they know their class while I durdle and suck despite a much higher rank.

    It's especially apparent surrounding major meta shakeups where people are experimenting.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.

  • @shirushi.3856 said:

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    I have a serious question.... what is the balance team thinking? I have been playing this game since 2012 and I believe I've hit my breaking point. Tell me how a Recruit or Scout in WvW can kill me a Platinum ranked veteran player?

    If you ask this kind of question, you are in no way a true veteran player.

    Why's that? Look I get why people are saying it's dumb to say that a Platinum should beat a Scout or Assaulter... I get it. But for me looking at their rank, and dying to them because of cheap condi just looks bad. I get the alt accounts, I get the pvp'ers coming to WvW but it just doesn't bode well with me personally. And how do you know I'm not a true veteran player lol I have 10k+ hours into this game... If you're referring to the fact that I should know that the balance team is mostly clueless, yes I do know that.