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  • @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    I think I speak for everyone when I say condi has been problematic for years now YEARS.

    No you don't. Wish people would keep their opinion scoped to them instead of trying to speak for everyone.

    ******"I think"***** I don't see why people would'nt say that condi has been a problem for years? Why do you think it hasn't been a problem I'd love to know :D

  • @Hannelore.8153 said:
    I don't think rank is a good argument for anything, it probably shouldn't exist to begin with. My rank is about 500, for the first ~7 years of the game it only got up to 300 because roaming gives very little WXP (especially without boosters), and it only started increasing because as the game started running better in Linux I could play in zergs more, where you can rank up literally 100x faster.

    And because I've played RvR games like this for the last 15 years or so my situational awareness and ability to think both strategically and tactically in combat even on a new character or build is quite extensive, especially when outmatched.

    The point is, smurfs exist, and they don't have to be from GW; they can be from other games too. Some things change but alot of things stay the same since games have alot of similar origins (in GW, its DAoC specifically) that you can work with.

    I do agree with you. I guess I was just super frustrated and losing to a low rank just pissed me off even more. I do see it the same way, not as much as I do in other games. In CoD I tell my buddy it doesn't matter on the rank they could just play a lot and are garbage. Just personally in Gw2 it makes me feel garbage losing to a low rank because it's hard to tell how long they're been playing especially when they just sit there and spam condis.

  • @ASP.8093 said:

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    Tell me how a Recruit or Scout in WvW can kill me a Platinum ranked veteran player?

    Maybe they're just better than you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Could be.... let's find out.... nerf condi to be equal with power and I can promise you that the outcomes of 1v1''s that I've lost to condi users would be different. I have NO PROBLEM saying someone is better than me if they beat me on a power build. Props to them. Will I ever admit someone is better than me on a condi build? Hell no.

  • @Svarty.8019 said:
    Frustration with certain classes is understandable. The developers spend a great deal of time thinking about skill balance, but sadly, the problems come from basic core mechanics and it seems the developers are very reluctant to adjust those.

    Combat is GW2's biggest weakness. The skills are awful, janky, twitchy and unintuitive. There's nothing fun about the combat system. It's a shame because there are a great many positives to discover in the rest of the game.

    I would disagree with you there. Have you ever played ESO? The combat is pure garbage (IMO). You swing weapons like a wet noodle. I would say Gw2 has the best combat I've seen in a MMO. HOWEVER, the balance is f***ed.

  • @Besetment.9187 said:

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    I should be able to craft my build without having to do all that, without having to make sure I have at least 14,596 condi removals.

    Should has nothing to do with it. Do it if it noticeably improves your chance of winning duels or don't. Everything else is just an elaborate and arbitrary excuse for why you are losing and/or consistently finding yourself in unfavourable 1v1s. Thinking like that isn't going to help you win. Sorry to tell you but thats scrub logic.

    Do you think power is equal to condi damage? I'll just ask that simple question.

  • @Nugget.7203 said:

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    I have a serious question.... what is the balance team thinking? I have been playing this game since 2012 and I believe I've hit my breaking point. Tell me how a Recruit or Scout in WvW can kill me a Platinum ranked veteran player? Oh right it's because they play a condi build! Tell me why there is little I can do in a duel with a Deadeye even if I time my rotations and utilities well? Oh right it's because they port everywhere shoot, then stealth on EVERY DODGE. Tell me why the balance team comes out with a HUGE balance patch and nerfs every power build but literally doesn't touch condi?! It blows my mind. Never have I had such disappointment and fear for this game, you gotta balance a game for it to be successful.

    I think I speak for everyone when I say condi has been problematic for years now YEARS. I will NEVER run condi, It's a free ticket to wherever you want to go. Cruise? Sure! Take this free ticket! Botswana? Sure! Take this ticket! If you think otherwise you are probably a condi user yourself :D. _The main problem here is _as a power user I pretty much need AT LEAST 2 of the following 3... Power, Precision and Ferocity to do damage since the balance team nerfed it all. This is obviously going to make me squishier unless I invest in Vitality and Toughness which I do but you can't take away from your damage too much in these trying times. So there ya go. Oh wait? More you say? Ok! Now... condi users can say hmmmm... I don't need power, I don't need precision, and I don't need ferocity.. OMG all I need is condi damage to do damage? I don't need power, precision, or ferocity? And they have to dedicate their whole build to removing condi's or they don't even have a 1% chance! WOW I LOVE THIS GAME I KILL EVERYONE! So..... Carl we'll call him only needs condi damage stat. But he needs more than just that. Oh I know lets throw toughness and vitality in there oh and a little healing power? BOOM! Well done Anet. He is now a damage dealing (over time) tank. And I need to run DUAL cleansing sigils, and tons of other condi removals. OH and the ascended food that has -20 condi duration. Oh and don't even get me started on Expertise.

    This game use to give me so much enjoyment, I guess It's either time to give up on this game or just play PvE... With 10k hours put into this game I have to say that I am highly disappointed in Anet right now.

    Oh and don't @ me saying oh well just run dual cleansing sigils and runes of the anti toxin. No. Stop. I should be able to craft my build without having to do all that, without having to make sure I have at least 14,596 condi removals. PS I do run dual cleansing sigils, just not the runes... Runes of the Fireworks FTW.

    and there is a simple answer to your post, git gud

    Forsure.... You must be condi eh?

  • To everyone.... Why is it that after the balance patch, now more than ever, I see TONS of people with condi food and utilities... Simple. Because it is much stronger. Look guys, obviously I was EXTREMELY frustrated I wanted to vent and see if other people agreed with me. I want to see change in this game because even after all the kitten I do still love this game. I just want it to be better. I was always believe condi is superior to power until something is done as I've seen it be cheese for years.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As mentioned many times, they could be a f2p or alt acct for someone in the opposite region or an alt in a diff server. They could be good at what they do so rank doesn't 100% mean newbie or pro (ive taken out gold/platinum on my DPS druid in the last few weeks...im Silver)

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:

    @Besetment.9187 said:

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    I should be able to craft my build without having to do all that, without having to make sure I have at least 14,596 condi removals.

    Should has nothing to do with it. Do it if it noticeably improves your chance of winning duels or don't. Everything else is just an elaborate and arbitrary excuse for why you are losing and/or consistently finding yourself in unfavourable 1v1s. Thinking like that isn't going to help you win. Sorry to tell you but thats scrub logic.

    Do you think power is equal to condi damage?

    Pretty much is. Condi holds an advantage at 1v1 sure but power can compete and stacks alot better the higher numbers there are. There are rarely 2-3 man groups running all condi. They're running power. And of course at 5+ almost all are running meta zergling builds.

    Here, I'll post two recent clips I did, one vs a power holo (two fights, pretty consistent) with what I presume is meta marauders and one vs a soulbeast that's probably a dire/trailblazer combo (which stacked no less than 31 poison on me):

    And in the situations above, how do you think 2x of me would have faired against 2x power holos compared to 2x condi soulbeasts? Yeah. Right. One of me would probably have been squished like a bug by the focused power builds and then they win a 2v1. The two condi we prolly could have beaten on cleanse sustain. And if I failed, it's clearly the other me that's at fault.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    I think I speak for everyone when I say condi has been problematic for years now YEARS.

    No you don't. Wish people would keep their opinion scoped to them instead of trying to speak for everyone.

    ******"I think"***** I don't see why people would'nt say that condi has been a problem for years? Why do you think it hasn't been a problem I'd love to know :D

    Don't see why you're trying to highlight this being a personal opinion when your next few words are completely contrary. Don't selectively quote yourself to try and prove some point. You literally said "I think I speak for everyone". You don't. Trying to say "I speak for everyone" in an attempt to make your argument or point seem more valid or give it more weight is poor form. The only person you can really speak for here is yourself.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    Frustration with certain classes is understandable. The developers spend a great deal of time thinking about skill balance, but sadly, the problems come from basic core mechanics and it seems the developers are very reluctant to adjust those.

    Combat is GW2's biggest weakness. The skills are awful, janky, twitchy and unintuitive. There's nothing fun about the combat system. It's a shame because there are a great many positives to discover in the rest of the game.

    I would disagree with you there. Have you ever played ESO? The combat is pure garbage (IMO). You swing weapons like a wet noodle. I would say Gw2 has the best combat I've seen in a MMO. HOWEVER, the balance is f***ed.

    I never claimed that my opinion was fact, and yours is as valid as mine. Perhaps we can agree that MMOs have bad combat systems full stop and that the best of a bad bunch isn't necessarily good or even decent.

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain

  • Nugget.7203Nugget.7203 Member ✭✭

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:

    @Nugget.7203 said:

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    I have a serious question.... what is the balance team thinking? I have been playing this game since 2012 and I believe I've hit my breaking point. Tell me how a Recruit or Scout in WvW can kill me a Platinum ranked veteran player? Oh right it's because they play a condi build! Tell me why there is little I can do in a duel with a Deadeye even if I time my rotations and utilities well? Oh right it's because they port everywhere shoot, then stealth on EVERY DODGE. Tell me why the balance team comes out with a HUGE balance patch and nerfs every power build but literally doesn't touch condi?! It blows my mind. Never have I had such disappointment and fear for this game, you gotta balance a game for it to be successful.

    I think I speak for everyone when I say condi has been problematic for years now YEARS. I will NEVER run condi, It's a free ticket to wherever you want to go. Cruise? Sure! Take this free ticket! Botswana? Sure! Take this ticket! If you think otherwise you are probably a condi user yourself :D. _The main problem here is _as a power user I pretty much need AT LEAST 2 of the following 3... Power, Precision and Ferocity to do damage since the balance team nerfed it all. This is obviously going to make me squishier unless I invest in Vitality and Toughness which I do but you can't take away from your damage too much in these trying times. So there ya go. Oh wait? More you say? Ok! Now... condi users can say hmmmm... I don't need power, I don't need precision, and I don't need ferocity.. OMG all I need is condi damage to do damage? I don't need power, precision, or ferocity? And they have to dedicate their whole build to removing condi's or they don't even have a 1% chance! WOW I LOVE THIS GAME I KILL EVERYONE! So..... Carl we'll call him only needs condi damage stat. But he needs more than just that. Oh I know lets throw toughness and vitality in there oh and a little healing power? BOOM! Well done Anet. He is now a damage dealing (over time) tank. And I need to run DUAL cleansing sigils, and tons of other condi removals. OH and the ascended food that has -20 condi duration. Oh and don't even get me started on Expertise.

    This game use to give me so much enjoyment, I guess It's either time to give up on this game or just play PvE... With 10k hours put into this game I have to say that I am highly disappointed in Anet right now.

    Oh and don't @ me saying oh well just run dual cleansing sigils and runes of the anti toxin. No. Stop. I should be able to craft my build without having to do all that, without having to make sure I have at least 14,596 condi removals. PS I do run dual cleansing sigils, just not the runes... Runes of the Fireworks FTW.

    and there is a simple answer to your post, git gud

    Forsure.... You must be condi eh?

    no, i dont play condi

  • Nugget.7203Nugget.7203 Member ✭✭

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    Tell me how a Recruit or Scout in WvW can kill me a Platinum ranked veteran player?

    Maybe they're just better than you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Could be.... let's find out.... nerf condi to be equal with power and I can promise you that the outcomes of 1v1''s that I've lost to condi users would be different. I have NO PROBLEM saying someone is better than me if they beat me on a power build. Props to them. Will I ever admit someone is better than me on a condi build? Hell no.

    “condi isnt skill” “condi takes my elitist status of a roamer away”. they’re mechanics, dont see the complaint of this topic anyway. you got outclassed by someone better than you

  • edited July 30, 2020

    Better nerf rev even though condi theif is still kitten broken, oh and condi mes bombing is still a think. Good thing we nerfed the Anti condi set ups.

  • Xca.9721Xca.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    WvW rank doesnt mean much, I am around rank 130 and beat a lot of plats/mithrils/diamonds on my power rev (which is weak to condis btw). I´m playing a lot of PvP tho (P2+).

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:

    @shirushi.3856 said:

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    I have a serious question.... what is the balance team thinking? I have been playing this game since 2012 and I believe I've hit my breaking point. Tell me how a Recruit or Scout in WvW can kill me a Platinum ranked veteran player?

    If you ask this kind of question, you are in no way a true veteran player.

    Why's that? Look I get why people are saying it's dumb to say that a Platinum should beat a Scout or Assaulter... I get it. But for me looking at their rank, and dying to them because of cheap condi just looks bad. I get the alt accounts, I get the pvp'ers coming to WvW but it just doesn't bode well with me personally. And how do you know I'm not a true veteran player lol I have 10k+ hours into this game... If you're referring to the fact that I should know that the balance team is mostly clueless, yes I do know that.

    Are you saying that people with higher AP should also do better too? Rank is meaningless apart from how many times you flipped ppt stuff

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2020

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    I will NEVER run condi, It's a free ticket to wherever you want to go.

    I am sorry you are having problems with condi builds. That said though if you truly never run condi builds how did you gauge the nerf that the condi side took with the balance patch? The power reduction was pretty clear a 30% but condi isn't as easily measured since some went longer and lower and some went from something to 0 which would be a 100% reduction. If you don't play condi how do you learn how to fight it or counter it?

    Only power and heal were reduced... wich makes conditions optimized since some conditions are excelent bursters, reason condi rev is strong atm and high burn bunkers builds with surviability are also very strong, it was ALWAYTS this strong, we playrs just had more easy access for overperming damage output iwth power, note i play condi rev since and after patch.... it feels weaker cause phsical damage is also less.

    And did i miss any update after that, that changed some conditions?

    No it was the same update, a number of condis took hits that day as well, it wasn't just power and heal. From the example I cited:

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/98220/game-update-notes-february-25-2020#latest
    One example:
    Spike Trap: Reduced power coefficient from 0.2 to 0.01. Adjusted bleeding from 6 stacks for 6.25 seconds to 1 stack for 1 second. Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 20 seconds.

    So this one in WvW I can say went from 19-21K damage over 12 seconds to a couple of hundred over 1 second. Completely gutted. A number were reduced and either stacks or duration were reduced as well. Again I play power and condi builds and the patch was felt on all toons. Of the 23 alts that were all viable in WvW down to just 2 that didn't feel they need some changes after the fact.

    Ic now ur point, but the condi quoficient didnt changed, 10-30stacks of certain condis are still the same has before patch but now with less heal strenght.
    For example my burn can still condi burst 8k burn ticks, or if i manage the burns skill usage can apply almost permently 2k burn ticks on targets, before and after patch and force target to get rekt out of condi cleanses, the only class i havent to manage to kill almost instantly its the scrapper everything else is not hard since quite alot of classes can reach 6k-8k burn ticks when on condi and tanky gear, elementalist do with burn kill targets lol just make sure u can rekt target cleanses....

    my condi renegade, is imune to condis due its perma resistance and almost perma heals from traits and torment runes, i can reach quite some decent burn ticks alone, the torment is there to kill target if he moves w/o clenses wich is not hard, fear will interrupt cleanse and put target to move and they insta die to bun and torment on the fear moment, if i recall i have been in situatins the deamon pull will also trigger the torment stacks damage.

    Condi bunkering is far far stronger that many think, dont forget that vulnerability also increases condi damage, a full stack of it and makes it 25% more damage, not healing was reducing so makes conditions stacks and bombing spamming way more valuable than it was before.

    For power ministrel users with 25migh will have 2k power with the traits spreading ferocitry and fury they are bunkers with decent damage for the current stack bunker spport and condi bunkers (i would love that ministrel gear would get the toughness removed lol).

  • I don’t mind the condi damage , but I don’t like the fact that in order to fight against such players I need to take all the skills to clean condi! And this is often not enough! I play as a warrior and my build is mainly aimed at cleaning the conditions, and when I duel with the condi dealers I take a few more skills to clean up even more... Is this ok? also now i forget about Precision and Ferocity, cuz i need more hp and armor to not die if my cleaning skills on cd...

    ps gj with nerfing [shake it off]

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    Tell me how a Recruit or Scout in WvW can kill me a Platinum ranked veteran player?

    Maybe they're just better than you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Could be.... let's find out.... nerf condi to be equal with power and I can promise you that the outcomes of 1v1''s that I've lost to condi users would be different. I have NO PROBLEM saying someone is better than me if they beat me on a power build. Props to them. Will I ever admit someone is better than me on a condi build? Hell no.

    I give you a perfect 10 in mental gymnastics! Did you come up with all that while running back from spawn?

  • Helicity.3416Helicity.3416 Member ✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @Sammyjoe.4271 said:
    Tell me how a Recruit or Scout in WvW can kill me a Platinum ranked veteran player?

    Maybe they're just better than you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Could be.... let's find out.... nerf condi to be equal with power and I can promise you that the outcomes of 1v1''s that I've lost to condi users would be different. I have NO PROBLEM saying someone is better than me if they beat me on a power build. Props to them. Will I ever admit someone is better than me on a condi build? Hell no.

    I give you a perfect 10 in mental gymnastics! Did you come up with all that while running back from spawn?

    This.

    The reality is, you lost because your HP hit zero before theirs did, and whether that happened in many small hits from damage over time, or big wombo combos off a single CC is utterly irrelevant.

    While I do understand that fighting condition builds can feel bad, people overreact so damned much

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    I do think the way that cleansing is rather inconsistently distributed across professions is a problem, but that's not really all that different from other stuff like "you will die to this build if you don't have good access to active defense" pushing certain other builds out of the meta. It's very important to separate class balance, larger conceptual problems in how the combat system is designed, and the "you lost at rock-paper-scissors" aspect of build-wars.

  • Kronan.6712Kronan.6712 Member ✭✭

    Hello everyone,

    Thank you very much for this thread @Sammyjoe.4271 I mostly stopped the game, for the same reason, the "unbalanced patch" of February. But alas there is something even more frustrating to come, the developers of Areanet will completely ignore and probably never read your message.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    Personally I think OP is right, Anet should demote him for losing to a noobie
    No platinum warrior should be leaving such a heavy salt trail

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct