Death's Retreat is useless

so:

• no instant skill, so you'are stun 100% of the time when you need to use it
• to short range , you need to do it twice to be safe a little
• too expensive in initiative
• bug every time ! a rock , a tree ,a bird everything make this skill bug but each time the init. is spent

someone can explain me why the only defensive skill is so weak ?

It is that way because it is buggy, and it needs to be adjusted with more range or less ini with same range.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat is a much better skill.

The way https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Retreat currently works is a joke. It actually shoots a projectile that you teleport to. Also, the short distance, coupled with the animation time is so long that someone can literally run up to you and catch you on flat surface, as long as they have swiftness.

There's a few ways they can fix this skill, but knowing ANet, I doubt they'll do any of it. So, I'm not going to waste my time typing it out.

I use it with about face for map travel but as janky as it is, I still use it a lot in fights also. I think as with most things DE, you try to think at least two steps ahead so you can use DE stuff at least one step ahead and it sort of works out. I get most complaints about it and I'm on board with them even if I'm not having much trouble with the skill. I think my main gripe right now is that I can flip backwards off of a cliff or down to another level, but I can't about face and take the same trajectory upwards. Let me do both or let me do neither.

Sure it has terrain bugs, so just be aware of your surroundings. It doesn't require much practice to start to realize when or when not it will get blocked. This ability is excellent. Condi clear, disengage, poison. The only thing that needs changing on this is a fix to the terrain bugs. Otherwise it is incredibly useful.

@lpgfou.5327 said:so:

• no instant skill, so you'are stun 100% of the time when you need to use it
• to short range , you need to do it twice to be safe a little
• too expensive in initiative
• bug every time ! a rock , a tree ,a bird everything make this skill bug but each time the init. is spent

someone can explain me why the only defensive skill is so weak ?

It's there to punish players for hitting "4" when they don't realize they aren't kneeling.

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@lpgfou.5327 said:so:

• no instant skill, so you'are stun 100% of the time when you need to use it
• to short range , you need to do it twice to be safe a little
• too expensive in initiative
• bug every time ! a rock , a tree ,a bird everything make this skill bug but each time the init. is spent

someone can explain me why the only defensive skill is so weak ?

especialy if they are playing on asuura..its hard to notice if you are kneeling or not because you gor stun or something before lol, with that short legs its really hard to see if you stopped kneeling until you want to use #4 skill

I could see its usefulness if it had a CC associated to it (launch) and you needed to roll backwards due to the impact. Gives it more utility and the effect makes sense.

make it instant, fix path.

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:I could see its usefulness if it had a CC associated to it (launch) and you needed to roll backwards due to the impact. Gives it more utility and the effect makes sense.

Spammable CC is never good for this game. Headshot is barely ok due to it only being a daze, and quarter of a second duration at that.

@lpgfou.5327 said:so:

• no instant skill, so you'are stun 100% of the time when you need to use it
• to short range , you need to do it twice to be safe a little
• too expensive in initiative
• bug every time ! a rock , a tree ,a bird everything make this skill bug but each time the init. is spent

someone can explain me why the only defensive skill is so weak ?

This is not the "only defensive skill" in the weapon set. Skimisher's Shot applies 4 seconds of Cripple and grants 7 seconds swiftness that costs 3 initiatives. If you use this skill every 3 seconds, it's practically a free skill since you'll generate 3 initiatives in 3 seconds.

Kneel->Free Action is another defensive skill and it only cost 1 initiatives that remove movement impairing conditions.

As a Thief, buggy shadowstep skill doesn't bother me as much anymore. Besides, I prefer to use Roll for Initiative on an unever terrain.

@lpgfou.5327 said:so:

• no instant skill, so you'are stun 100% of the time when you need to use it
• to short range , you need to do it twice to be safe a little
• too expensive in initiative
• bug every time ! a rock , a tree ,a bird everything make this skill bug but each time the init. is spent

someone can explain me why the only defensive skill is so weak ?

Overstated. If traited to use rifle with Kneel , you are rarely interrupted due to range and stealth.

Spotters shot along with the kneel are excellent defensive skills just as is available on the p/d set. The kneel version cripples and immobs an enemy at range.

P/d also has a port away like Deaths retreat so in function they very much the same with DE rifle having easier accessed stealth. While I do have some port issues with DR it not as bad as is being stated. (I think it should be one INI less)

@kash.9213 said:I use it with about face for map travel but as janky as it is, I still use it a lot in fights also. I think as with most things DE, you try to think at least two steps ahead so you can use DE stuff at least one step ahead and it sort of works out. I get most complaints about it and I'm on board with them even if I'm not having much trouble with the skill. I think my main gripe right now is that I can flip backwards off of a cliff or down to another level, but I can't about face and take the same trajectory upwards. Let me do both or let me do neither.

As useful as it is, the bug that is STILL on it that will WASTE the thief's precious initiative is STILL completely unacceptable. Meanwhile the other specs are getting plenty of bug fixes :/

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@kash.9213 said:I use it with about face for map travel but as janky as it is, I still use it a lot in fights also. I think as with most things DE, you try to think at least two steps ahead so you can use DE stuff at least one step ahead and it sort of works out. I get most complaints about it and I'm on board with them even if I'm not having much trouble with the skill. I think my main gripe right now is that I can flip backwards off of a cliff or down to another level, but I can't about face and take the same trajectory upwards. Let me do both or let me do neither.

other specs are getting plenty of bug fixes..because these was to op with these bug while thief retreat like on mesmer bugged weapon skills arnt OP they dont ned then fix it so fast like rest, they can "try to fix" in maybe months if not longer because this dont need nerfs like other "fixed" specs

I'm ok with it, it's here when I need it.As usual on deadeye a lot of the skills requires you to have perfect positioning.

The design is right, but the execution is off. Fixing the little bugs would help a lot, and I think shaving a point of initiative is warranted.

Tbh the main complaint I have with it is that it always ports in a straight line away from your target, which is jarring when you're used to being able to control the direction of withdraw and roll for ini. Not having to drop target to control the direction would go a long way to making it more usable imo.

And yes, kneel is a better defence imo. Kneel then withdraw, stealth and evade.

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:Tbh the main complaint I have with it is that it always ports in a straight line away from your target, which is jarring when you're used to being able to control the direction of withdraw and roll for ini. Not having to drop target to control the direction would go a long way to making it more usable imo.

And yes, kneel is a better defence imo. Kneel then withdraw, stealth and evade.

Absolutely. It's really annoying to have to drop target just so I can give chase. And its embarrassing the amount of times that I about-face, DR, only to port away from my quarry.

I would like to be able to control where i port as well without dropping target, but i don't think making it instant cast would be a good thing. Before the nerf to infiltrators strike, it was impossible to stun a thief. Instant teleports (unless stun breakers) make cc a joke. Yes, i know at the moment Mesmer/Mirage disfranchises that argument with Elusive Mind and Phase retreat, but i don't think those are well balanced. The point of deadeye is to be at a distance and choose strategic place's to begin the fight, if you're getting caught by cc to the point where you run out of stun breakers then you aren't kiting very well.

The skill just needs to get cheaper (e.g. 3 initiative cost) so when it bugs, it's not the end of the world.

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:The skill just needs to get cheaper (e.g. 3 initiative cost) so when it bugs, it's not the end of the world.

I think it'd be a good idea to have it blind instead of poison also, so when it bugs it provides some sort of defense for at least 1 hit.

Since it shares the same button as the DJ its absoutely ruin to use for muscle memory. I NEVER use that button when I'm standing! And If I do...its because my mind wanted to shoot a DJ....

@Maugetarr.6823 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:The skill just needs to get cheaper (e.g. 3 initiative cost) so when it bugs, it's not the end of the world.

I want blind too, but not to be exclusive for Rifle. One of my suggestions is to increase the total initiative to 15 and change Preparedness to Dirty Fighting; DF will apply blind on next attack with 15s ICD (or maybe 8s ICD?).

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Maugetarr.6823 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:The skill just needs to get cheaper (e.g. 3 initiative cost) so when it bugs, it's not the end of the world.

That's not a bad idea. I also wanted preparedness baseline, but replaced with Shadow Prison; SP chills your target for 3 seconds when you hit them with steal. I'm not a huge fan of auto-procs without action being taken on your part, but your suggestion squeaks by on what I think could be balanced pretty well. Maybe something like your next attack after gaining fury or applying vulnerability with a 5-8 second CD could also work. Probably would work better with the vulnerability version since it would give it to X/D, P/X, Staff, and Rifle.

@Maugetarr.6823 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Maugetarr.6823 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:The skill just needs to get cheaper (e.g. 3 initiative cost) so when it bugs, it's not the end of the world.

Definitely, anything could work. Basically, my idea is for the initial attack to cause blindness.