Explosive entrance is the issue, NOT grenades

Please stop nerfing grenades and nerf the core issue, explosive entrance. You are going to eventually nerf explosive entrance and then "Forget" you nerfed every grenade in PvP creating a completely unusable kit in PvP/WvW.

Facet of Chaos and Draconic Echo situation all over again.

The people have spoken. Time to take it down

Isn't it interesting how they keep tweaking everything but the things that need to be fixed?

I would say it was a combo of all the things you listed.Nades certainly were over performing and they might still be even with these reductionsExplosive entrance needs to be like other on hit minors (no ability to crit)Flash bang would have probably been better getting a internal icd similar to the ele blind on burn trait rather than a duration nerf.

But welcome to the clubEvery other profession has been getting this kind of treatment i know my main one of choice has for some time now i dont see why engi should be an exception.

People complained about grenades, so grenades are getting nerfed. Nevermind the fact that its hitting core engineer harder and probably at this point making it unplayable. I mean hell, if Grenades were "overperforming" like some people say, then core engineer would be broken, yet surprisingly it wasnt.

Core engineer has NOT been meta since HoT came out. That is already 5 years! Core engineer has been sub par in EVERY game mode. Yet, how did once again Arenanet "balance" the overpowered holosmith? Yup, by nerfing core and doing just one change to holosmith.

What core engineer is supposed to use for damage? Rifle hits like wet noodle especially considering those skills which hit just one target and it is slow and unreliable. Pistol has never been competitive. Bombs explode with 1 s delay and require melee range. Both mortar and grenades have slow travel speed, meaning it is easy to kite them from distance. Tool kit has always been more about utility than damage and flamethrower just doesn't cut towards good players.

Arenanet should revert several of the core nerfs and instead tone down the sustain holosmith elite spec offers:stabilitybarriercondition-to-boon conversionmight generation and boon spamming

Holosmith was supposed to be very hard hitting, yet lacking in sustain. Now the holosmith trait line + photon forge just offer too much and many skills have very low cool downs to make matters worse.

Engineer has several lackluster trait lines: firearms, inventions and tools. Probably the weirdest is inventions. It doesn't even much make sense without an elite spec? Why to design core trait line so that it lacks synergy with core, yet works better with elite?!?

can still stand still and generate 17 might , all i have to do is press 3 in forge and get 20+ might ... can still stack vuln to 25 passively consistently

I'd still say the issue is the perma superspeed and the great map presence and kill/kite potential it provides to holo cuz core and scrapper both have access to EE and nades and are not as nearly opressive

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Please stop nerfing grenades and nerf the core issue, explosive entrance. You are going to eventually nerf explosive entrance and then "Forget" you nerfed every grenade in PvP creating a completely unusable kit in PvP/WvW.

read above

@ZDragon.3046 said:I would say it was a combo of all the things you listed.Nades certainly were over performing and they might still be even with these reductionsExplosive entrance needs to be like other on hit minors (no ability to crit)Flash bang would have probably been better getting a internal icd similar to the ele blind on burn trait rather than a duration nerf.

But welcome to the clubEvery other profession has been getting this kind of treatment i know my main one of choice has for some time now i dont see why engi should be an exception.

They shouldn't take away explosive entrance's ability to crit, since this would also drastically reduce it's damage in PvE.If EE really needs to get nerfed, they can simply reduce the power coefficient in PvP.

@"Deniara Devious.3948" said:Core engineer has NOT been meta since HoT came out. That is already 5 years! Core engineer has been sub par in EVERY game mode. Yet, how did once again Arenanet "balance" the overpowered holosmith? Yup, by nerfing core and doing just one change to holosmith.

What core engineer is supposed to use for damage? Rifle hits like wet noodle especially considering those skills which hit just one target and it is slow and unreliable. Pistol has never been competitive. Bombs explode with 1 s delay and require melee range. Both mortar and grenades have slow travel speed, meaning it is easy to kite them from distance. Tool kit has always been more about utility than damage and flamethrower just doesn't cut towards good players.

Arenanet should revert several of the core nerfs and instead tone down the sustain holosmith elite spec offers:stabilitybarriercondition-to-boon conversionmight generation and boon spamming

Holosmith was supposed to be very hard hitting, yet lacking in sustain. Now the holosmith trait line + photon forge just offer too much and many skills have very low cool downs to make matters worse.

Engineer has several lackluster trait lines: firearms, inventions and tools. Probably the weirdest is inventions. It doesn't even much make sense without an elite spec? Why to design core trait line so that it lacks synergy with core, yet works better with elite?!?

Minor detail, but holosmith doesn't provide any stability whatsoever. No utility skills, no weapon skills, no traits..... absolutely nothing from holosmith gives stability.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:I would say it was a combo of all the things you listed.Nades certainly were over performing and they might still be even with these reductionsExplosive entrance needs to be like other on hit minors (no ability to crit)Flash bang would have probably been better getting a internal icd similar to the ele blind on burn trait rather than a duration nerf.

But welcome to the clubEvery other profession has been getting this kind of treatment i know my main one of choice has for some time now i dont see why engi should be an exception.

To be honest i dont care about that at the moment because my on hit traits still dont crit in pve why should yours?Make things standard or its not balanced to make it a standerd with other on hit traits that do damage it by all means should not crit or all the other types that are on hit should go back to critting. plain and simple fair is fair.

people also dont realize corona burst apply 9 vulnerability for hit alone, so 18 vuln per skillon top of passive vuln with explosion, you can easily go 20+vuln without sacrificec.

and superspeed uptime is also too high up there that allows holo to kit insanely good or just catch people to make it's damage effective

@Kodama.6453 said:They shouldn't take away explosive entrance's ability to crit, since this would also drastically reduce it's damage in PvE.If EE really needs to get nerfed, they can simply reduce the power coefficient in PvP.u dont rly use it in pve now, dunno any rotation where u stop midrotation to dodge so u can proc EE. ull lose dmg uptime that way

@toxic.3648 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:They shouldn't take away explosive entrance's ability to crit, since this would also drastically reduce it's damage in PvE.

If

EE really needs to get nerfed, they can simply reduce the power coefficient in PvP.u dont rly use it in pve now, dunno any rotation where u stop midrotation to dodge so u can proc EE. ull lose dmg uptime that way

You are just considering raids/strike missions here it seems.

But in other PvE aspects (open world and fractals) you will dodge and that nerf will decrease the damage there.

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Please stop nerfing grenades and nerf the core issue, explosive entrance. You are going to eventually nerf explosive entrance and then "Forget" you nerfed every grenade in PvP creating a completely unusable kit in PvP/WvW.

Same kind of problem they did when they nerfed Core Ranger. They kept nerfing pet coefficients for some reason, instead of nerfing the obvious problem which was Marksmanship/Maul modifiers that granted: +50% +50% +25%. All that did was cause problems for pet damage on builds that did not use Marksmanship, especially for Druid, who now has a -20% to all pet attributes. The better answer would have been to nerf Marsk from the get go, which was largely responsible for pet 1HKOs or 2shots, as well as Ranger being able to combo up those mods for 12k+ Mauls & WIs.

I dunno what they're thinking on some of these balance decisions tbh.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Please stop nerfing grenades and nerf the core issue, explosive entrance. You are going to eventually nerf explosive entrance and then "Forget" you nerfed every grenade in PvP creating a completely unusable kit in PvP/WvW.

No the problem of ranger where birds, but they nerfed first everything else instead and than they nerfed birds

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Please stop nerfing grenades and nerf the core issue, explosive entrance. You are going to eventually nerf explosive entrance and then "Forget" you nerfed every grenade in PvP creating a completely unusable kit in PvP/WvW.

you act as if everything would have been fine lol, pets to this day are still retarded. if at any point in time classes lose some ability to recover health we will be having the same problem we had before. Play build without insane amounts of healing and tell me how it is to fight ranger that doesnt hit a single skill and wins by default anyways.You are on the clock after all.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Please stop nerfing grenades and nerf the core issue, explosive entrance. You are going to eventually nerf explosive entrance and then "Forget" you nerfed every grenade in PvP creating a completely unusable kit in PvP/WvW.

This is why ranger effortlessly wins every 1v1 regardless of either players skill. You can literally never hit a single attack and win as ranger. When I played mesmer a bit, I literally lost to rangers 1v1 without them ever hitting me once, lol.

Another issue is that EE is unavoidable in a fight, the battle starts the holo hits for 3 to 5 k from EE and another attack, dodges resets EE you dodge the next attack it misses but after that the next attack that hits applies EE + bonus effect, the holo dodges again and that is 9 to 15k unavoidable damage in quick succession.So if they insist it should work like that it should have bad power coefficients and base damage like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova .It could have been really simple on dodge trait, like you throw some grenades when you dodge with low damage in PVP(High in PVE) and they activate some passives in the traitline.

@"Vancho.8750" said:Another issue is that EE is unavoidable in a fight, the battle starts the holo hits for 3 to 5 k from EE and another attack, dodges resets EE you dodge the next attack it misses but after that the next attack that hits applies EE + bonus effect, the holo dodges again and that is 9 to 15k unavoidable damage in quick succession.So if they insist it should work like that it should have bad power coefficients and base damage like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova .It could have been really simple on dodge trait, like you throw some grenades when you dodge with low damage in PVP(High in PVE) and they activate some passives in the traitline.

If you dodge attack that applies EE, it will be dodged and be used up.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Please stop nerfing grenades and nerf the core issue, explosive entrance. You are going to eventually nerf explosive entrance and then "Forget" you nerfed every grenade in PvP creating a completely unusable kit in PvP/WvW.

Oh please. Enough of the Ranger Boogie Man thing. Core Ranger has been nerfed down into mid-tier on even side nodes, and it's beyond terrible in team fights. Marks mods have been nerfed to a point where a coordinated pet combo hits only as hard as a Holo Nade Barrage but requires a shit load more effort to actually land and it cannot be spammed like some of the other attacks in the game that hit just as hard that can be spammed. Soulbeast remains barely viable and only viable as a +1 Roam nowadays. Neither are seen in competitive play. You won't see Rangers Core or Soulbeast in AT teams unless they're amongst the oldest veteran Ranger players left in the game, who can barely get away with keeping it viable due to virtue of sheer knowledge & experience on the class alone. Ranger/Soulbeast representation is even low as hell this season in the top 100. So get off the bandwagon.

In fact, right now, a current Holosmith is usually able to 1v2 two Rangers and win or at least survive until +d. So lay off the Ranger Boogie Man propaganda. Right now you all should be steering your bandwagons right towards Holosmith & Heralds. <- These two are still by far the biggest offenders that are inarguably breaking the game in ways that just makes it feel bad to play man. Holosmith is currently OP in yolo/duo and 5 man AT games. Herald is somewhat balanced in yolo/duo, but what it can do in 5 man organized teams via voice coms, is broken in extreme ways.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Please stop nerfing grenades and nerf the core issue, explosive entrance. You are going to eventually nerf explosive entrance and then "Forget" you nerfed every grenade in PvP creating a completely unusable kit in PvP/WvW.

In fact, right now, a current Holosmith is usually able to 1v2 two Rangers and win or at least survive until +d.OOF

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Vancho.8750" said:Another issue is that EE is unavoidable in a fight, the battle starts the holo hits for 3 to 5 k from EE and another attack, dodges resets EE you dodge the next attack it misses but after that the next attack that hits applies EE + bonus effect, the holo dodges again and that is 9 to 15k unavoidable damage in quick succession.So if they insist it should work like that it should have bad power coefficients and base damage like

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova

.It could have been really simple on dodge trait, like you throw some grenades when you dodge with low damage in PVP(High in PVE) and they activate some passives in the traitline.

Which is most likely why it is allowed to deal the damage it currently does for Anet and why that trait is still allowed to crit unlike other trait triggered attacks.

It is telegraphed. If the engineer is dodging, then you know that you have to avoid the next attack to prevent explosive entrance.That is inherent counterplay. Unlike many other attacks triggered by traits, this is not instant (like attacks for entering shroud, for example).The engineer has to perform a dodge roll and then attack, that gives you enough time to react accordingly.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Vancho.8750" said:Another issue is that EE is unavoidable in a fight, the battle starts the holo hits for 3 to 5 k from EE and another attack, dodges resets EE you dodge the next attack it misses but after that the next attack that hits applies EE + bonus effect, the holo dodges again and that is 9 to 15k unavoidable damage in quick succession.So if they insist it should work like that it should have bad power coefficients and base damage like

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova

.It could have been really simple on dodge trait, like you throw some grenades when you dodge with low damage in PVP(High in PVE) and they activate some passives in the traitline.

right, but usually after the enemy dodge rolls you want to pressure them - which now puts you at full riskand shield 4 is pretty much instant and covers the whole node too