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Explosive entrance is the issue, NOT grenades

Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

Please stop nerfing grenades and nerf the core issue, explosive entrance. You are going to eventually nerf explosive entrance and then "Forget" you nerfed every grenade in PvP creating a completely unusable kit in PvP/WvW.

Comments

  • Facet of Chaos and Draconic Echo situation all over again.

  • mes.4607mes.4607 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The people have spoken. Time to take it down

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Isn't it interesting how they keep tweaking everything but the things that need to be fixed?

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would say it was a combo of all the things you listed.
    Nades certainly were over performing and they might still be even with these reductions
    Explosive entrance needs to be like other on hit minors (no ability to crit)
    Flash bang would have probably been better getting a internal icd similar to the ele blind on burn trait rather than a duration nerf.

    But welcome to the club
    Every other profession has been getting this kind of treatment i know my main one of choice has for some time now i dont see why engi should be an exception.

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd still say the issue is the perma superspeed and the great map presence and kill/kite potential it provides to holo cuz core and scrapper both have access to EE and nades and are not as nearly opressive

  • Caine.8204Caine.8204 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    Please stop nerfing grenades and nerf the core issue, explosive entrance. You are going to eventually nerf explosive entrance and then "Forget" you nerfed every grenade in PvP creating a completely unusable kit in PvP/WvW.

    read above

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    I would say it was a combo of all the things you listed.
    Nades certainly were over performing and they might still be even with these reductions
    Explosive entrance needs to be like other on hit minors (no ability to crit)
    Flash bang would have probably been better getting a internal icd similar to the ele blind on burn trait rather than a duration nerf.

    But welcome to the club
    Every other profession has been getting this kind of treatment i know my main one of choice has for some time now i dont see why engi should be an exception.

    They shouldn't take away explosive entrance's ability to crit, since this would also drastically reduce it's damage in PvE.
    If EE really needs to get nerfed, they can simply reduce the power coefficient in PvP.

    @Deniara Devious.3948 said:
    Core engineer has NOT been meta since HoT came out. That is already 5 years! Core engineer has been sub par in EVERY game mode. Yet, how did once again Arenanet "balance" the overpowered holosmith? Yup, by nerfing core and doing just one change to holosmith.

    What core engineer is supposed to use for damage? Rifle hits like wet noodle especially considering those skills which hit just one target and it is slow and unreliable. Pistol has never been competitive. Bombs explode with 1 s delay and require melee range. Both mortar and grenades have slow travel speed, meaning it is easy to kite them from distance. Tool kit has always been more about utility than damage and flamethrower just doesn't cut towards good players.

    Arenanet should revert several of the core nerfs and instead tone down the sustain holosmith elite spec offers:
    stability
    barrier
    condition-to-boon conversion
    might generation and boon spamming

    Holosmith was supposed to be very hard hitting, yet lacking in sustain. Now the holosmith trait line + photon forge just offer too much and many skills have very low cool downs to make matters worse.

    Engineer has several lackluster trait lines: firearms, inventions and tools. Probably the weirdest is inventions. It doesn't even much make sense without an elite spec? Why to design core trait line so that it lacks synergy with core, yet works better with elite?!?

    Minor detail, but holosmith doesn't provide any stability whatsoever. No utility skills, no weapon skills, no traits..... absolutely nothing from holosmith gives stability.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    I would say it was a combo of all the things you listed.
    Nades certainly were over performing and they might still be even with these reductions
    Explosive entrance needs to be like other on hit minors (no ability to crit)
    Flash bang would have probably been better getting a internal icd similar to the ele blind on burn trait rather than a duration nerf.

    But welcome to the club
    Every other profession has been getting this kind of treatment i know my main one of choice has for some time now i dont see why engi should be an exception.

    They shouldn't take away explosive entrance's ability to crit, since this would also drastically reduce it's damage in PvE.

    To be honest i dont care about that at the moment because my on hit traits still dont crit in pve why should yours?
    Make things standard or its not balanced to make it a standerd with other on hit traits that do damage it by all means should not crit or all the other types that are on hit should go back to critting. plain and simple fair is fair.

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    people also dont realize corona burst apply 9 vulnerability for hit alone, so 18 vuln per skill
    on top of passive vuln with explosion, you can easily go 20+vuln without sacrificec.

    and superspeed uptime is also too high up there that allows holo to kit insanely good or just catch people to make it's damage effective

  • toxic.3648toxic.3648 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    They shouldn't take away explosive entrance's ability to crit, since this would also drastically reduce it's damage in PvE.
    If EE really needs to get nerfed, they can simply reduce the power coefficient in PvP.

    u dont rly use it in pve now, dunno any rotation where u stop midrotation to dodge so u can proc EE. ull lose dmg uptime that way

    Toxicity Pengu to the rescue /o/

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @toxic.3648 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    They shouldn't take away explosive entrance's ability to crit, since this would also drastically reduce it's damage in PvE.
    If EE really needs to get nerfed, they can simply reduce the power coefficient in PvP.

    u dont rly use it in pve now, dunno any rotation where u stop midrotation to dodge so u can proc EE. ull lose dmg uptime that way

    You are just considering raids/strike missions here it seems.

    But in other PvE aspects (open world and fractals) you will dodge and that nerf will decrease the damage there.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    Please stop nerfing grenades and nerf the core issue, explosive entrance. You are going to eventually nerf explosive entrance and then "Forget" you nerfed every grenade in PvP creating a completely unusable kit in PvP/WvW.

    Same kind of problem they did when they nerfed Core Ranger. They kept nerfing pet coefficients for some reason, instead of nerfing the obvious problem which was Marksmanship/Maul modifiers that granted: +50% +50% +25%. All that did was cause problems for pet damage on builds that did not use Marksmanship, especially for Druid, who now has a -20% to all pet attributes. The better answer would have been to nerf Marsk from the get go, which was largely responsible for pet 1HKOs or 2shots, as well as Ranger being able to combo up those mods for 12k+ Mauls & WIs.

    I dunno what they're thinking on some of these balance decisions tbh.

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    Please stop nerfing grenades and nerf the core issue, explosive entrance. You are going to eventually nerf explosive entrance and then "Forget" you nerfed every grenade in PvP creating a completely unusable kit in PvP/WvW.

    Same kind of problem they did when they nerfed Core Ranger. They kept nerfing pet coefficients for some reason, instead of nerfing the obvious problem which was Marksmanship/Maul modifiers that granted: +50% +50% +25%. All that did was cause problems for pet damage on builds that did not use Marksmanship, especially for Druid, who now has a -20% to all pet attributes. The better answer would have been to nerf Marsk from the get go, which was largely responsible for pet 1HKOs or 2shots, as well as Ranger being able to combo up those mods for 12k+ Mauls & WIs.

    I dunno what they're thinking on some of these balance decisions tbh.

    No the problem of ranger where birds, but they nerfed first everything else instead and than they nerfed birds

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    Please stop nerfing grenades and nerf the core issue, explosive entrance. You are going to eventually nerf explosive entrance and then "Forget" you nerfed every grenade in PvP creating a completely unusable kit in PvP/WvW.

    Same kind of problem they did when they nerfed Core Ranger. They kept nerfing pet coefficients for some reason, instead of nerfing the obvious problem which was Marksmanship/Maul modifiers that granted: +50% +50% +25%. All that did was cause problems for pet damage on builds that did not use Marksmanship, especially for Druid, who now has a -20% to all pet attributes. The better answer would have been to nerf Marsk from the get go, which was largely responsible for pet 1HKOs or 2shots, as well as Ranger being able to combo up those mods for 12k+ Mauls & WIs.

    I dunno what they're thinking on some of these balance decisions tbh.

    you act as if everything would have been fine lol, pets to this day are still kitten. if at any point in time classes lose some ability to recover health we will be having the same problem we had before. Play build without insane amounts of healing and tell me how it is to fight ranger that doesnt hit a single skill and wins by default anyways.
    You are on the clock after all.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    Please stop nerfing grenades and nerf the core issue, explosive entrance. You are going to eventually nerf explosive entrance and then "Forget" you nerfed every grenade in PvP creating a completely unusable kit in PvP/WvW.

    Same kind of problem they did when they nerfed Core Ranger. They kept nerfing pet coefficients for some reason, instead of nerfing the obvious problem which was Marksmanship/Maul modifiers that granted: +50% +50% +25%. All that did was cause problems for pet damage on builds that did not use Marksmanship, especially for Druid, who now has a -20% to all pet attributes. The better answer would have been to nerf Marsk from the get go, which was largely responsible for pet 1HKOs or 2shots, as well as Ranger being able to combo up those mods for 12k+ Mauls & WIs.

    I dunno what they're thinking on some of these balance decisions tbh.

    you act as if everything would have been fine lol, pets to this day are still kitten. if at any point in time classes lose some ability to recover health we will be having the same problem we had before. Play build without insane amounts of healing and tell me how it is to fight ranger that doesnt hit a single skill and wins by default anyways.
    You are on the clock after all.

    This is why ranger effortlessly wins every 1v1 regardless of either players skill. You can literally never hit a single attack and win as ranger. When I played mesmer a bit, I literally lost to rangers 1v1 without them ever hitting me once, lol.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Another issue is that EE is unavoidable in a fight, the battle starts the holo hits for 3 to 5 k from EE and another attack, dodges resets EE you dodge the next attack it misses but after that the next attack that hits applies EE + bonus effect, the holo dodges again and that is 9 to 15k unavoidable damage in quick succession.
    So if they insist it should work like that it should have bad power coefficients and base damage like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova .
    It could have been really simple on dodge trait, like you throw some grenades when you dodge with low damage in PVP(High in PVE) and they activate some passives in the traitline.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Another issue is that EE is unavoidable in a fight, the battle starts the holo hits for 3 to 5 k from EE and another attack, dodges resets EE you dodge the next attack it misses but after that the next attack that hits applies EE + bonus effect, the holo dodges again and that is 9 to 15k unavoidable damage in quick succession.
    So if they insist it should work like that it should have bad power coefficients and base damage like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova .
    It could have been really simple on dodge trait, like you throw some grenades when you dodge with low damage in PVP(High in PVE) and they activate some passives in the traitline.

    If you dodge attack that applies EE, it will be dodged and be used up.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    Please stop nerfing grenades and nerf the core issue, explosive entrance. You are going to eventually nerf explosive entrance and then "Forget" you nerfed every grenade in PvP creating a completely unusable kit in PvP/WvW.

    Same kind of problem they did when they nerfed Core Ranger. They kept nerfing pet coefficients for some reason, instead of nerfing the obvious problem which was Marksmanship/Maul modifiers that granted: +50% +50% +25%. All that did was cause problems for pet damage on builds that did not use Marksmanship, especially for Druid, who now has a -20% to all pet attributes. The better answer would have been to nerf Marsk from the get go, which was largely responsible for pet 1HKOs or 2shots, as well as Ranger being able to combo up those mods for 12k+ Mauls & WIs.

    I dunno what they're thinking on some of these balance decisions tbh.

    you act as if everything would have been fine lol, pets to this day are still kitten. if at any point in time classes lose some ability to recover health we will be having the same problem we had before. Play build without insane amounts of healing and tell me how it is to fight ranger that doesnt hit a single skill and wins by default anyways.
    You are on the clock after all.

    Oh please. Enough of the Ranger Boogie Man thing. Core Ranger has been nerfed down into mid-tier on even side nodes, and it's beyond terrible in team fights. Marks mods have been nerfed to a point where a coordinated pet combo hits only as hard as a Holo Nade Barrage but requires a kitten load more effort to actually land and it cannot be spammed like some of the other attacks in the game that hit just as hard that can be spammed. Soulbeast remains barely viable and only viable as a +1 Roam nowadays. Neither are seen in competitive play. You won't see Rangers Core or Soulbeast in AT teams unless they're amongst the oldest veteran Ranger players left in the game, who can barely get away with keeping it viable due to virtue of sheer knowledge & experience on the class alone. Ranger/Soulbeast representation is even low as hell this season in the top 100. So get off the bandwagon.

    In fact, right now, a current Holosmith is usually able to 1v2 two Rangers and win or at least survive until +d. So lay off the Ranger Boogie Man propaganda. Right now you all should be steering your bandwagons right towards Holosmith & Heralds. <- These two are still by far the biggest offenders that are inarguably breaking the game in ways that just makes it feel bad to play man. Holosmith is currently OP in yolo/duo and 5 man AT games. Herald is somewhat balanced in yolo/duo, but what it can do in 5 man organized teams via voice coms, is broken in extreme ways.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    Please stop nerfing grenades and nerf the core issue, explosive entrance. You are going to eventually nerf explosive entrance and then "Forget" you nerfed every grenade in PvP creating a completely unusable kit in PvP/WvW.

    Same kind of problem they did when they nerfed Core Ranger. They kept nerfing pet coefficients for some reason, instead of nerfing the obvious problem which was Marksmanship/Maul modifiers that granted: +50% +50% +25%. All that did was cause problems for pet damage on builds that did not use Marksmanship, especially for Druid, who now has a -20% to all pet attributes. The better answer would have been to nerf Marsk from the get go, which was largely responsible for pet 1HKOs or 2shots, as well as Ranger being able to combo up those mods for 12k+ Mauls & WIs.

    I dunno what they're thinking on some of these balance decisions tbh.

    you act as if everything would have been fine lol, pets to this day are still kitten. if at any point in time classes lose some ability to recover health we will be having the same problem we had before. Play build without insane amounts of healing and tell me how it is to fight ranger that doesnt hit a single skill and wins by default anyways.
    You are on the clock after all.

    Oh please. Enough of the Ranger Boogie Man thing. Core Ranger has been nerfed down into mid-tier on even side nodes, and it's beyond terrible in team fights. Marks mods have been nerfed to a point where a coordinated pet combo hits only as hard as a Holo Nade Barrage but requires a kitten load more effort to actually land and it cannot be spammed like some of the other attacks in the game that hit just as hard that can be spammed. Soulbeast remains barely viable and only viable as a +1 Roam nowadays. Neither are seen in competitive play. You won't see Rangers Core or Soulbeast in AT teams unless they're amongst the oldest veteran Ranger players left in the game, who can barely get away with keeping it viable due to virtue of sheer knowledge & experience on the class alone. Ranger/Soulbeast representation is even low as hell this season in the top 100. So get off the bandwagon.

    In fact, right now, a current Holosmith is usually able to 1v2 two Rangers and win or at least survive until +d. So lay off the Ranger Boogie Man propaganda. Right now you all should be steering your bandwagons right towards Holosmith & Heralds. <- These two are still by far the biggest offenders that are inarguably breaking the game in ways that just makes it feel bad to play man. Holosmith is currently OP in yolo/duo and 5 man AT games. Herald is somewhat balanced in yolo/duo, but what it can do in 5 man organized teams via voice coms, is broken in extreme ways.

    In fact, right now, a current Holosmith is usually able to 1v2 two Rangers and win or at least survive until +d.
    OOF

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Another issue is that EE is unavoidable in a fight, the battle starts the holo hits for 3 to 5 k from EE and another attack, dodges resets EE you dodge the next attack it misses but after that the next attack that hits applies EE + bonus effect, the holo dodges again and that is 9 to 15k unavoidable damage in quick succession.
    So if they insist it should work like that it should have bad power coefficients and base damage like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova .
    It could have been really simple on dodge trait, like you throw some grenades when you dodge with low damage in PVP(High in PVE) and they activate some passives in the traitline.

    If you dodge attack that applies EE, it will be dodged and be used up.

    Which is most likely why it is allowed to deal the damage it currently does for Anet and why that trait is still allowed to crit unlike other trait triggered attacks.

    It is telegraphed. If the engineer is dodging, then you know that you have to avoid the next attack to prevent explosive entrance.
    That is inherent counterplay. Unlike many other attacks triggered by traits, this is not instant (like attacks for entering shroud, for example).
    The engineer has to perform a dodge roll and then attack, that gives you enough time to react accordingly.

  • DonNee.5128DonNee.5128 Member ✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Another issue is that EE is unavoidable in a fight, the battle starts the holo hits for 3 to 5 k from EE and another attack, dodges resets EE you dodge the next attack it misses but after that the next attack that hits applies EE + bonus effect, the holo dodges again and that is 9 to 15k unavoidable damage in quick succession.
    So if they insist it should work like that it should have bad power coefficients and base damage like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova .
    It could have been really simple on dodge trait, like you throw some grenades when you dodge with low damage in PVP(High in PVE) and they activate some passives in the traitline.

    If you dodge attack that applies EE, it will be dodged and be used up.

    Which is most likely why it is allowed to deal the damage it currently does for Anet and why that trait is still allowed to crit unlike other trait triggered attacks.

    It is telegraphed. If the engineer is dodging, then you know that you have to avoid the next attack to prevent explosive entrance.
    That is inherent counterplay. Unlike many other attacks triggered by traits, this is not instant (like attacks for entering shroud, for example).
    The engineer has to perform a dodge roll and then attack, that gives you enough time to react accordingly.

    right, but usually after the enemy dodge rolls you want to pressure them - which now puts you at full risk
    and shield 4 is pretty much instant and covers the whole node too

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Another issue is that EE is unavoidable in a fight, the battle starts the holo hits for 3 to 5 k from EE and another attack, dodges resets EE you dodge the next attack it misses but after that the next attack that hits applies EE + bonus effect, the holo dodges again and that is 9 to 15k unavoidable damage in quick succession.
    So if they insist it should work like that it should have bad power coefficients and base damage like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova .
    It could have been really simple on dodge trait, like you throw some grenades when you dodge with low damage in PVP(High in PVE) and they activate some passives in the traitline.

    If you dodge attack that applies EE, it will be dodged and be used up.

    Ok so i'm wrong on this one, it explodes on dodge, but it is still means dodge everything holo does, and dodging basic attacks is generally not good use of dodge.
    It hits as hard as a weapon skill. Why is engi so special to get its on dodge trait with pve scaling while everything else is nerfed.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Another issue is that EE is unavoidable in a fight, the battle starts the holo hits for 3 to 5 k from EE and another attack, dodges resets EE you dodge the next attack it misses but after that the next attack that hits applies EE + bonus effect, the holo dodges again and that is 9 to 15k unavoidable damage in quick succession.
    So if they insist it should work like that it should have bad power coefficients and base damage like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova .
    It could have been really simple on dodge trait, like you throw some grenades when you dodge with low damage in PVP(High in PVE) and they activate some passives in the traitline.

    If you dodge attack that applies EE, it will be dodged and be used up.

    Ok so i'm wrong on this one, it explodes on dodge, but it is still means dodge everything holo does, and dodging basic attacks is generally not good use of dodge.
    It hits as hard as a weapon skill. Why is engi so special to get its on dodge trait with pve scaling while everything else is nerfed.

    As I already mentioned above: telegraphing.

    Explosive entrance is fairly telegraphed and delayed, since you have to dodge and then perform an attack afterwards. Other dodge traits and traits which trigger a damage effect usually don't give you so much time to react to them.

    Holosmith itself even has an example of this: the grandmaster trait thermal release valve deals pretty insignificant damage. Because it triggers on the dodge itself, which leaves less time to react to it.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Another issue is that EE is unavoidable in a fight, the battle starts the holo hits for 3 to 5 k from EE and another attack, dodges resets EE you dodge the next attack it misses but after that the next attack that hits applies EE + bonus effect, the holo dodges again and that is 9 to 15k unavoidable damage in quick succession.
    So if they insist it should work like that it should have bad power coefficients and base damage like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova .
    It could have been really simple on dodge trait, like you throw some grenades when you dodge with low damage in PVP(High in PVE) and they activate some passives in the traitline.

    If you dodge attack that applies EE, it will be dodged and be used up.

    Ok so i'm wrong on this one, it explodes on dodge, but it is still means dodge everything holo does, and dodging basic attacks is generally not good use of dodge.
    It hits as hard as a weapon skill. Why is engi so special to get its on dodge trait with pve scaling while everything else is nerfed.

    As I already mentioned above: telegraphing.

    Explosive entrance is fairly telegraphed and delayed, since you have to dodge and then perform an attack afterwards. Other dodge traits and traits which trigger a damage effect usually don't give you so much time to react to them.

    Holosmith itself even has an example of this: the grandmaster trait thermal release valve deals pretty insignificant damage. Because it triggers on the dodge itself, which leaves less time to react to it.

    Any attack afterwards, which makes it way better then almost all on dodge traits. This one is also telegraphed https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bound it got the reduction.
    EE is a on dodge trait but it is also a proc trait, both of those types of passive attacks got nerfed heavily, or we are ok with passive proc traits.

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    Please stop nerfing grenades and nerf the core issue, explosive entrance. You are going to eventually nerf explosive entrance and then "Forget" you nerfed every grenade in PvP creating a completely unusable kit in PvP/WvW.

    Same kind of problem they did when they nerfed Core Ranger. They kept nerfing pet coefficients for some reason, instead of nerfing the obvious problem which was Marksmanship/Maul modifiers that granted: +50% +50% +25%. All that did was cause problems for pet damage on builds that did not use Marksmanship, especially for Druid, who now has a -20% to all pet attributes. The better answer would have been to nerf Marsk from the get go, which was largely responsible for pet 1HKOs or 2shots, as well as Ranger being able to combo up those mods for 12k+ Mauls & WIs.

    I dunno what they're thinking on some of these balance decisions tbh.

    you act as if everything would have been fine lol, pets to this day are still kitten. if at any point in time classes lose some ability to recover health we will be having the same problem we had before. Play build without insane amounts of healing and tell me how it is to fight ranger that doesnt hit a single skill and wins by default anyways.
    You are on the clock after all.

    This is why ranger effortlessly wins every 1v1 regardless of either players skill. You can literally never hit a single attack and win as ranger. When I played mesmer a bit, I literally lost to rangers 1v1 without them ever hitting me once, lol.

    That tells much about you

  • wasss.1208wasss.1208 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    It is telegraphed. If the engineer is dodging, then you know that you have to avoid the next attack to prevent explosive entrance.
    That is inherent counterplay. Unlike many other attacks triggered by traits, this is not instant (like attacks for entering shroud, for example).
    The engineer has to perform a dodge roll and then attack, that gives you enough time to react accordingly.

    Honestly, you shouldn't be forced to use a defensive ability, just because you forced your enemy on defensive. This is why IH was stupid, this is why EE atm is stupid. Sadly power core is dependant on this damage, as it is getting nerfed patch after patch, because of holo. Holo on the other hand would be still doing decent damage, if this was removed.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @wasss.1208 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    It is telegraphed. If the engineer is dodging, then you know that you have to avoid the next attack to prevent explosive entrance.
    That is inherent counterplay. Unlike many other attacks triggered by traits, this is not instant (like attacks for entering shroud, for example).
    The engineer has to perform a dodge roll and then attack, that gives you enough time to react accordingly.

    Honestly, you shouldn't be forced to use a defensive ability, just because you forced your enemy on defensive. This is why IH was stupid, this is why EE atm is stupid. Sadly power core is dependant on this damage, as it is getting nerfed patch after patch, because of holo. Holo on the other hand would be still doing decent damage, if this was removed.

    Power base eng is irrelevant and shouldn't be used to defend base power traits that are overpowered like EE. Base eng is for condi builds only.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @wasss.1208 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    It is telegraphed. If the engineer is dodging, then you know that you have to avoid the next attack to prevent explosive entrance.
    That is inherent counterplay. Unlike many other attacks triggered by traits, this is not instant (like attacks for entering shroud, for example).
    The engineer has to perform a dodge roll and then attack, that gives you enough time to react accordingly.

    Honestly, you shouldn't be forced to use a defensive ability, just because you forced your enemy on defensive. This is why IH was stupid, this is why EE atm is stupid. Sadly power core is dependant on this damage, as it is getting nerfed patch after patch, because of holo. Holo on the other hand would be still doing decent damage, if this was removed.

    Power base eng is irrelevant and shouldn't be used to defend base power traits that are overpowered like EE. Base eng is for condi builds only.

    Then we should improve core engi's condition damage... alot
    We just have 1 single trait line for condition damage, firearms, and it isn't really good at it.
    Then we are also lacking utility skills to deal condition damage, most utility skills from core engi are power damage focused.
    Also mainhand pistol is still pretty bad and needs improvement. And not just 1 more stack poison here and 2 seconds more bleed there.

    What even is the point of pistol auto attack dealing small power damage in AoE while not spreading the bleed in the same AoE radius, btw?

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @wasss.1208 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    It is telegraphed. If the engineer is dodging, then you know that you have to avoid the next attack to prevent explosive entrance.
    That is inherent counterplay. Unlike many other attacks triggered by traits, this is not instant (like attacks for entering shroud, for example).
    The engineer has to perform a dodge roll and then attack, that gives you enough time to react accordingly.

    Honestly, you shouldn't be forced to use a defensive ability, just because you forced your enemy on defensive. This is why IH was stupid, this is why EE atm is stupid. Sadly power core is dependant on this damage, as it is getting nerfed patch after patch, because of holo. Holo on the other hand would be still doing decent damage, if this was removed.

    Power base eng is irrelevant and shouldn't be used to defend base power traits that are overpowered like EE. Base eng is for condi builds only.

    Then we should improve core engi's condition damage... alot
    We just have 1 single trait line for condition damage, firearms, and it isn't really good at it.
    Then we are also lacking utility skills to deal condition damage, most utility skills from core engi are power damage focused.
    Also mainhand pistol is still pretty bad and needs improvement. And not just 1 more stack poison here and 2 seconds more bleed there.

    What even is the point of pistol auto attack dealing small power damage in AoE while not spreading the bleed in the same AoE radius, btw?

    What power focused utils? you generally just run 2 defensive utils + a kit as any build don't you? Either way my point was that base power eng is so weak and irrelevant that it can't be used to defend nerfing holosmith and condi is the only real use base eng has right now(regardless of whether or not it's too weak)

  • @Kodama.6453 said:

    Minor detail, but holosmith doesn't provide any stability whatsoever. No utility skills, no weapon skills, no traits..... absolutely nothing from holosmith gives stability.

    My mistake. Holosmith trait called "Crystal Configuration: Eclipse" used to give stability with corona burst, but that was changed in Feb 2020. The trait is still good and gives ~700-1000 barrier per hit.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystal_Configuration:_Eclipse

  • @Kodama.6453 said:

    Power base eng is irrelevant and shouldn't be used to defend base power traits that are overpowered like EE. Base eng is for condi builds only.

    Then we should improve core engi's condition damage... alot
    We just have 1 single trait line for condition damage, firearms, and it isn't really good at it.
    Then we are also lacking utility skills to deal condition damage, most utility skills from core engi are power damage focused.
    Also mainhand pistol is still pretty bad and needs improvement. And not just 1 more stack poison here and 2 seconds more bleed there.

    I feel core engineer should be true jack of all trades and master of none. So it should NOT be forced to be condition only, but working with direct damage, hybrid e.g. celestial or rampager and full condition. Core engineer should have good (but not the best!) power burst and sustained power. Currently rifle just hits like wet noodle. Considering the trait offs e.g. rifle #1 is single target in most situations (piercing), rifle #2 is slow speed 1 target and rifle #4 does basically no damage and causes self knockback, it is easy to see why core engineer is in trouble. Just compare that with holosmith photo forge.

    I agree that firearms trait line is currently bad, but so is inventions and tools as well. Even the explosives trait line has major design mistakes/issues e.g. grenadier trait gives a useless grenade barrage after performing a healing skill. In reality all or almost all of the grenades will miss, even if you are inside enemy mob/zerg (in other game modes). Instead if should give grenades higher range e.g. 1200 (grenades used to be 1500 range when traited). Another issue is Aim-Assisted Rocket, which has 450 minimum range requirement. This makes it useless with bombs and even with grenades and their slow projectile speed and mere 900 range it is very situational. It works the best in pve and with mortar. Big boomer is grandmaster trait, but heals only about 120-130 hp/second with celestial stats. That is even less healing than Backpack Regenerator, which is major trait in alchemy line.

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    This is why ranger effortlessly wins every 1v1 regardless of either players skill. You can literally never hit a single attack and win as ranger. When I played mesmer a bit, I literally lost to rangers 1v1 without them ever hitting me once, lol.

    ... Have you played ranger in spvp, like, ever? I suggest you try to let your pet carry you. Hint: not gonna happen.

    If you're dying to pet attacks only, that means you're literally no better than a golem. To this day, the vast majority of pets whiff 100% of their attacks on the special forces training golem set to walk in a circle at an unchanging speed.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Deniara Devious.3948 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    Power base eng is irrelevant and shouldn't be used to defend base power traits that are overpowered like EE. Base eng is for condi builds only.

    Then we should improve core engi's condition damage... alot
    We just have 1 single trait line for condition damage, firearms, and it isn't really good at it.
    Then we are also lacking utility skills to deal condition damage, most utility skills from core engi are power damage focused.
    Also mainhand pistol is still pretty bad and needs improvement. And not just 1 more stack poison here and 2 seconds more bleed there.

    I feel core engineer should be true jack of all trades and master of none. So it should NOT be forced to be condition only, but working with direct damage, hybrid e.g. celestial or rampager and full condition. Core engineer should have good (but not the best!) power burst and sustained power. Currently rifle just hits like wet noodle. Considering the trait offs e.g. rifle #1 is single target in most situations (piercing), rifle #2 is slow speed 1 target and rifle #4 does basically no damage and causes self knockback, it is easy to see why core engineer is in trouble. Just compare that with holosmith photo forge.

    I agree that firearms trait line is currently bad, but so is inventions and tools as well. Even the explosives trait line has major design mistakes/issues e.g. grenadier trait gives a useless grenade barrage after performing a healing skill. In reality all or almost all of the grenades will miss, even if you are inside enemy mob/zerg (in other game modes). Instead if should give grenades higher range e.g. 1200 (grenades used to be 1500 range when traited). Another issue is Aim-Assisted Rocket, which has 450 minimum range requirement. This makes it useless with bombs and even with grenades and their slow projectile speed and mere 900 range it is very situational. It works the best in pve and with mortar. Big boomer is grandmaster trait, but heals only about 120-130 hp/second with celestial stats. That is even less healing than Backpack Regenerator, which is major trait in alchemy line.

    Core should get another one hand option. probably mace since how the kitten engineer doesn't know how to use a hammer is beyond me.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Deniara Devious.3948 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    Power base eng is irrelevant and shouldn't be used to defend base power traits that are overpowered like EE. Base eng is for condi builds only.

    Then we should improve core engi's condition damage... alot
    We just have 1 single trait line for condition damage, firearms, and it isn't really good at it.
    Then we are also lacking utility skills to deal condition damage, most utility skills from core engi are power damage focused.
    Also mainhand pistol is still pretty bad and needs improvement. And not just 1 more stack poison here and 2 seconds more bleed there.

    I feel core engineer should be true jack of all trades and master of none. So it should NOT be forced to be condition only, but working with direct damage, hybrid e.g. celestial or rampager and full condition. Core engineer should have good (but not the best!) power burst and sustained power. Currently rifle just hits like wet noodle. Considering the trait offs e.g. rifle #1 is single target in most situations (piercing), rifle #2 is slow speed 1 target and rifle #4 does basically no damage and causes self knockback, it is easy to see why core engineer is in trouble. Just compare that with holosmith photo forge.

    I agree that firearms trait line is currently bad, but so is inventions and tools as well. Even the explosives trait line has major design mistakes/issues e.g. grenadier trait gives a useless grenade barrage after performing a healing skill. In reality all or almost all of the grenades will miss, even if you are inside enemy mob/zerg (in other game modes). Instead if should give grenades higher range e.g. 1200 (grenades used to be 1500 range when traited). Another issue is Aim-Assisted Rocket, which has 450 minimum range requirement. This makes it useless with bombs and even with grenades and their slow projectile speed and mere 900 range it is very situational. It works the best in pve and with mortar. Big boomer is grandmaster trait, but heals only about 120-130 hp/second with celestial stats. That is even less healing than Backpack Regenerator, which is major trait in alchemy line.

    Core should get another one hand option. probably mace since how the kitten engineer doesn't know how to use a hammer is beyond me.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tool_Kit this is it's hammer basically

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Deniara Devious.3948 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    Power base eng is irrelevant and shouldn't be used to defend base power traits that are overpowered like EE. Base eng is for condi builds only.

    Then we should improve core engi's condition damage... alot
    We just have 1 single trait line for condition damage, firearms, and it isn't really good at it.
    Then we are also lacking utility skills to deal condition damage, most utility skills from core engi are power damage focused.
    Also mainhand pistol is still pretty bad and needs improvement. And not just 1 more stack poison here and 2 seconds more bleed there.

    I feel core engineer should be true jack of all trades and master of none. So it should NOT be forced to be condition only, but working with direct damage, hybrid e.g. celestial or rampager and full condition. Core engineer should have good (but not the best!) power burst and sustained power. Currently rifle just hits like wet noodle. Considering the trait offs e.g. rifle #1 is single target in most situations (piercing), rifle #2 is slow speed 1 target and rifle #4 does basically no damage and causes self knockback, it is easy to see why core engineer is in trouble. Just compare that with holosmith photo forge.

    I agree that firearms trait line is currently bad, but so is inventions and tools as well. Even the explosives trait line has major design mistakes/issues e.g. grenadier trait gives a useless grenade barrage after performing a healing skill. In reality all or almost all of the grenades will miss, even if you are inside enemy mob/zerg (in other game modes). Instead if should give grenades higher range e.g. 1200 (grenades used to be 1500 range when traited). Another issue is Aim-Assisted Rocket, which has 450 minimum range requirement. This makes it useless with bombs and even with grenades and their slow projectile speed and mere 900 range it is very situational. It works the best in pve and with mortar. Big boomer is grandmaster trait, but heals only about 120-130 hp/second with celestial stats. That is even less healing than Backpack Regenerator, which is major trait in alchemy line.

    Core should get another one hand option. probably mace since how the kitten engineer doesn't know how to use a hammer is beyond me.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tool_Kit this is it's hammer basically

    Yes but it is a toolkit and Flamethrower, Elexir Gun and the Morter Kit are basically different kinds of "rifle" for GW2 at least.
    I think they are probably keeping the mace for the next elite speck though.

  • wasss.1208wasss.1208 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    Power base eng is irrelevant and shouldn't be used to defend base power traits that are overpowered like EE. Base eng is for condi builds only.

    You can't just shove a spec under the rug, calling it irrelevant. In the a perfect world all 27 specs has at least 1 viable build. Core engi has none, and that is why half of the engi topics going on are pointing out that core shouldn't be neutered, when holo only things can be nerfed. Of course EE hits hard... but what doesn't when the user has permanent ~22 might?
    Also, if you nerf any core lines, you have to compensate it elsewhere. You could say "compensation isn't needed, that is the point of nerf", which is fair when you want to shave an overperforming spec, but doesn't make sense when you cause collateral damage to severely underperforming specs.

    Either way my point was that base power eng is so weak and irrelevant that it can't be used to defend nerfing holosmith and condi is the only real use base eng has right now(regardless of whether or not it's too weak)

    That logic is pretty flawed. There are at least a half dozen of traits, skills, interactions, that can be nerfed on holo, but the current balance hits core instead. So it becomes irrelevant because it is weak, but it is weak, because it gets nerfed, because it is irrelevant... Like the latest two patches that reduced 'nade kits damage. Core relies on that kit to do damage, since other kits are flawed in different ways, and because weapons got overnerfed, too.