Please rid us of Rytlock and Ryland by the end of this season! - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Please rid us of Rytlock and Ryland by the end of this season!

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  • Bolbo Baggins.8594Bolbo Baggins.8594 Member ✭✭
    edited September 17, 2020

    Hey, leave my buddy for years Rytlock outside of this please ;-)

  • I honestly think the ice brood saga has been awfull in so many aspects, one of them as you said is Rytlock and his son,
    Like you said "whiney, aggressive tone the emotional maturity of a child that has no patience and no respect for anyone 90% of the time and who is frequently throwing tantrums", its like im watching diferent character
    I personaly dont have any interess in his relationship with his son and his need to save him over what is happening around, and the writers did a bad job in fleshing out the steel warband to the point that i didnt even care they died or not.
    its annoying how interesting characters like smodur and soukeeper were kied of and yet the bad ones like taimi, kasmeer, braham, marjory, are still out there (not contributing anything relevant)

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2020

    You ever wonder exactly how the Commander knows how soft Rytlock's fur is, though. If you're a Charr, Rytlock's been with you since the beginning; more than any other character in the series, including Trahearne.

    Think about it.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 23 charas, 18k hours, 29k AP | ♀♥♀
    No need to be best, only good and kind.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I just want the old crew back.

    Zojja was way more tolerable than Taimi, Logan was a flawed creature which complemented Ryhtlock.
    I swear the reason why Rythlock feels the way he does now is because Logan isn't with him, trading banter and being battle bros.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Raizel.1839Raizel.1839 Member ✭✭✭

    Ryland I dislike too but Rytlock is fine for me.

  • All of the voice acting in this game is aids, and just another reason why i dread LS episodes. "If mordremoth can attack the mother tree in the grove, it can attack anywhere!"said the transexual lettuce 300 times an hour.

  • Vavume.8065Vavume.8065 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    By now, the second I hear his voice (or imagine it when there is no voice-over) I cringe.

    Yeah same, the no voice over chapters have been a blessing.

  • Moyayuki.3619Moyayuki.3619 Member ✭✭✭

    Honestly, one of my biggest complaints about this game (a game I still love, btw) is the attitudes of most of the main cast, particularly those of Dragon's Edge 2.0. Heck, the writers even managed to make the Commander, the character I play, unlikable at points. The best example I have is what they did with making everyone distrust Caithe in HoT and for quite a bit through LWS3. I had played through the story from start to finish up until HoT got released, even played LWS1 back when it was live, and not once did I find any reason to think Caithe was up to nefarious deeds with the egg. I get it, the dragon could more easily corrupt Sylvari, but I had faith in Caithe. I had played Sylvari toons and knew Caithe wouldn't go off on her own without good reason (instead, there were other characters who, if THEY went off like that, I WOULD be worried).

    It really frustrated me, and still frustrates me to this day, when characters insist on making a mountain out of molehill, or acting like a petulant child, putting dear friends at risk for nothing. A lot of drama I've seen has been the fault of characters not being able to get over themselves. Heck, look at the three Orders in the Personal Story, when we are getting them to work together to free Claw Island! Each Order rep thinks it's okay to slander the other Orders and not trust them just because they think THEIR WAY IS SUPERIOR! I get it, those kinds of people exist IRL, and the point of fighting Zhaitan was having everyone get past their short-sightedness and judgmental world views. But after Zhaitan, there should have been ZERO excuse for that kind of behavior. I don't care that Braham is still young - he doesn't get to throw a hissy fit just because he thinks he has some justification. I don't like characters being a walking stereotype/cliche/archetype, whatever you want to call it.

    Ugh, sorry, need to take a breather... I know I did not address Rytlock at all in my post, mostly because I haven't finished PoF and played LWS4, but the OP's post reminded me of how much I sometimes hate the writers' decisions. And I am a PvEr who prefers to play story content, so sadly I cannot escape the characters who could have been written better.

  • vier.1327vier.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    Rytlock is the only masculine figure of the team, the one that does not talk about feeling and smash dragons, that is for what we came here.

    Just remember the revenant transformation, it took us an expansion and a whole LS to obtained and explanation.

    Turlock rocks.

  • You all think Rytlock had poor story and is a boring character?

    Feels bad for all those paying gems for LWS2... Marjory and Kasmeer....

  • Hypnowulf.7403Hypnowulf.7403 Member ✭✭✭

    @Finalfreefall.8247 said:
    Guild Wars 2 has had a problem of killing side characters by the dozens while the B-team remains invincible. Makes the story a little silly really. Having Jormag kill Rytlock, Taimi and... what the heck, let's throw Braham in there and that would solve most of Guild War's storytelling problems in one strike.

    As a writer, this made my mind segfault three times in a row. Character development is a cornerstone of writing and—at the moment—that's exactly what's happening. So, whenever a character gets any development we murder them? This new wave writing sounds incredibly lazy. Let's just murder everyone for schlocky shock and sleazy schadenfreude, then we can call it a day. We'll make a new round of characters and do the same to them, too!

    I've never understood the hate for the characters, really. I like all of them. Taimi though is especially egregious as she's very autistic in nature so where the loathing for her persence derives from is disgracefully transparent.

  • Hypnowulf.7403Hypnowulf.7403 Member ✭✭✭

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:
    To be fair, people are consistently missing the point that OP never asked for them to be killed, just removed from the story.

    Subjective distaste is a good reason for that, though? I really don't think it is.

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:
    [...] had a blast listening to the corrupted spirits roast Braham.

    Can't agree. If anything, it made me very distrustful of these spirits. I trust them less than I trust Jormag at this point.

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:
    Guess what, a lot of people's cubs are out there doing dumb things and getting killed.

    That's not a reason to lack compassion for anyone's family though, is it? I don't know, it might be coming from a more empathetic place but I really can't relate to your anger. I'm unable to relate to being angry about a story expecting us to care about love.

    If my character doesn't see Rytlock as a particularly close friend [...]

    Well, you do. So anything beyond that is moot. I mean, that's the way the Commander is written. Rytlock is family.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hypnowulf.7403 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Yea that, kill [Gorrik].

    I... actually really like Gorrik. As someone who thinks that insects generally get a bit of a bum rap, I'm enchanted by his love of them. It's not often we get to see an entomologist in fiction because "bugs are icky" so it's not a popular choice. Shrug. I like him. I don't hate any of the Dragon's Watch cast really, I... simply don't have it in me. I find some to be a little twee and quaint (sorry Kas) but hate? Nah. Not even dislike. They're fine.

    Good for you, I loathe the little vermin. Its not even his fascination with bugs (Something I find interesting, especially given cantha is upcoming.) He is just a boring character who is honestly obnoxious. Worthless in a fight, second-rate to taimi and her knowledge and otherwise filler for some plot point likely coming down the road. Id love for him to die, along with kas and majory~ I honestly don't like very many of "dragons watch."

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2020

    @Hypnowulf.7403 said:

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:
    To be fair, people are consistently missing the point that OP never asked for them to be killed, just removed from the story.

    Subjective distaste is a good reason for that, though? I really don't think it is.

    Yep, a number of people already mentioned that (the idea that not liking characters is a flimsy basis for their removal), and I don't contest it.

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:
    [...] had a blast listening to the corrupted spirits roast Braham.

    Can't agree. If anything, it made me very distrustful of these spirits. I trust them less than I trust Jormag at this point.

    Cool.

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:
    Guess what, a lot of people's cubs are out there doing dumb things and getting killed.

    That's not a reason to lack compassion for anyone's family though, is it? I don't know, it might be coming from a more empathetic place but I really can't relate to your anger. I'm unable to relate to being angry about a story expecting us to care about love.

    Eh. There's a lot of conflation in your thoughts here. Lack of compassion doesn't necessarily indicate anger. In this case, my lack of compassion for the Ryland situation stems from a deep indifference to that family's woes. The fact that this narrative is being pushed in my face at the cost of what I hoped would be a more interesting story about the Norn is disappointing, sure, but I'm not angry about it.

    If my character doesn't see Rytlock as a particularly close friend [...]

    Well, you do. So anything beyond that is moot. I mean, that's the way the Commander is written. Rytlock is family.

    I concede this point entirely - the story unequivocally demonstrates that the Commander and Rytlock are very close friends. I was wrapped up in thinking about all my characters who don't really interact with Rytlock at all outside of the more recent living world episodes, outside of which it's entirely possible for our characters to never come across the guy.

    I must have higher narrative standards than you do. Yes, this story is supposedly about love, as you noted - but that alone isn't nearly enough to get passing marks from me. Sure, it might be a story about love, but it might also be a haphazardly constructed story with uncompelling characters as well. I'm quite unimpressed with what's been shown of Crecia and Ryland so far, and Rytlock does marginally better in my book solely out of the strength of his development prior to what the Saga's done to him.

  • kettering.6823kettering.6823 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2020

    Getting through season 5 has been grueling for me. I care absolutely 0% about Charr and Charr politics, so the first episode was tough for me. I don't like Braham much either, but Bjora Marches' horror theme was at least enough to redeem it (it's a super cool map, I love it). Now that I'm in Drizzlewood Coast I actually cannot bring myself to go further lol. I hate this map, I hate Charr politics, I hate Ryland and Bangar and to a lesser extent Rytlock. I just wanna fight a dragon. This lacks all the intrigue of all previous story arcs and without any voice acting I have 0 motivation to finish anything. I know the latter isn't anyone's fault though.

    But I'm sure there are some people who felt this way about S2 and HoT and Sylvari so I won't say it's objectively bad. I just personally really hate it and wish I could just skip it altogether.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 8, 2020

    my 2cents what we may get at the end of S5, Rytlock will try to kill Ryland, as he is delivering the finishing blow, Crecia will jump in front and got killed

    out of despair and guilt, Rytlock commits seppuku with Sohothin, but instead of killing himself, Balthzaar's magic that got channelled into Sohothin to light it up engulfs Rytlock, and he comes the new God of War

    with his newfound power, he purifies Ryland of his Jormag's corruption, clears Foefire ghosts from Ascalon, rekindles the flame of the reforged Magdaer, and leaves the mortal realm... the Charrs starts worshipping him as their new god, and the story of Rytlock ends on Tyria

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • I think> @White Kitsunee.4620 said:

    You get rid of rytlock you get rid of 1 of 2 good characters in the secondary cast.
    So all we will have left is Canach

    no! Way! Canach is way more irritating than Rytlock.

    I suggest we kill Taimi. she's way more irritating than Canach

  • Gibson.4036Gibson.4036 Member ✭✭
    edited October 10, 2020

    @Hypnowulf.7403 said:

    @Gibson.4036 said:
    This is exactly why I'd love to see [Rytlock] go. He reads as a boy trying hard to do an impression of a manly warrior.

    That's not my read of him at all. "I need a win, Commander," is one of the most vulnerable things I've heard anyone in the game say.
    Now I know you're not paying attention as most charr aren't like that. I could roll off a hundred charr characters who don't match that description really easily, starting with Tybalt...

    Fair.

    Now that I'm into season 5, he's reading a lot differently to me. And of course, yes, Tybalt. But Tybalt came across as so wildly, starkly different than almost any other Charr I meet up until the Olmakhan (and gone so early in the core story) that I'd completely forgotten about him.

    It's entirely possible I was so turned off by what is on the surface of Charr culture that I never bothered to look closely at it the rest of the game.

    And yes, General Soulkeeper is another Charr that didn't fit the chest-thumper stereotype and I cared about her.

  • I've replayed vanilla story recently, and let me tell ya, I like Rytlock so much better when he's not our subordinate. Back then he was a real kitten.

  • vier.1327vier.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    @WindBlade.8749 said:

    @vier.1327 said:
    Rytlock is the only masculine figure of the team, the one that does not talk about feeling and smash dragons, that is for what we came here.

    Just remember the revenant transformation, it took us an expansion and a whole LS to obtained and explanation.

    Turlock rocks.

    so feeling are not masculine, man can't cry or express worrying about being afraid to loose your friends nooooo..

    What a toxic comment.

    Just a point of view as valid as yours.

    I am sorry I understand something different than you, I suppose that is toxic.

  • I agree with this sentiment a little too much. Rytlock has been the “mystery box” in almost every step of the story, and one of the key players in the ones where he’s not. Give some of the other characters time to shine; there are plenty of other great ones that always get shouldered out in favor of more Rytlock. There is currently absolutely no reason that he should be a driving force into and of the Cantha story.

  • Liewec.2896Liewec.2896 Member ✭✭✭

    i like rytlock, but ANNOYING KIDS does seem to be a GW2 theme
    first Braham and now Ryland

  • I loved Rytlock. Until he got all whiney about Ryland. Seeing Ryland die and Rytlock going back to his cynical self would be much appreciated. I would also like to see more of Kasmeer AND Marjory. There can not be enough Canach. I am glad Rox is gone and if Braham disappears to sit at Taimi's death bed, I would not be too sorry. Despite all the laughs I got out of Taimi.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gryphon.2875 said:
    Bring back Tybalt from the Mists

    I literally came here to comment this but you beat me to it

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    Essentially Rytlock is the wildcard being how powerful he is versus other Charr and if you remove him from the equation it begins to be basically humans against Charr again with a Norn and Asura in tow. Although it is an interesting outcome what eventually happens because no one expected what happened so the next bit of the story will probably be even more interesting.

  • Sheader.6827Sheader.6827 Member ✭✭✭

    Problem is the inconsistent character arc of Rytlock. Compare him from the personal story, LWS1, 2, HoT and 3. In PoF he started gradually shifting to being a kitten. I want him to become the character he was.

    If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere well it were done quickly. That but this blow might be the be-all and the end-all—here.
    Macbeth Act 1, scene 7

  • Palador.2170Palador.2170 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2020

    @Gryphon.2875 said:
    Bring back Tybalt from the Mists to replace R&R. Only tolerable Charr character.

    I have three words for you: "horrible death moos".
    Or Soulkeeper. I mean, imagine if she had been able to replace Rytlock as our resident charr.

    @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:
    I loved Eir. hated the part where she got eliminated. But... It was great for the story... I felt the loss.

    But... it wasn't great for the story. It was a cheap bit of bad writing, and it made a lot of people upset about how poorly it was written. To have that lead up to "Braham the Kitten" just made a lot of people dislike that character turn even more.

    Let's take that scene, and with the goal of the same basic outcome, rewrite it. Faolain and Eir are freed and start to run for it. Faolain trips, and falls next to a big thorn. She breaks it off and runs after Eir again, and the monster appears before them. Faolain yells out to Eir, tossing the thorn to her. Eir grabs it, and uses it as a weapon to injure the monster and make it back off a bit. But then a second and a third appear from the forest, surrounding them. Eir tells Faolain that when there's an opening, she's to run for it and not look back.

    "You won't last a minute alone against three of them!"
    "Then you'd better run fast."

    Eir attacks, cutscene ends. By the time we get there, Eir's dead and Faolain is gone. Braham has to deal with his mother's death, though having died in combat as a hero, there's perhaps an even greater legacy to carry now. And when he sees Faolain's eventual fate/fall and that Eir's sacrifice to save her was for nothing, it can leave him with serious morality questions that help to explain the later personality shift.

    Lip synching is just mime karaoke.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Palador.2170 said:

    @Gryphon.2875 said:
    Bring back Tybalt from the Mists to replace R&R. Only tolerable Charr character.

    I have three words for you: "horrible death moos".
    Or Soulkeeper. I mean, imagine if she had been able to replace Rytlock as our resident charr.

    @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:
    I loved Eir. hated the part where she got eliminated. But... It was great for the story... I felt the loss.

    But... it wasn't great for the story. It was a cheap bit of bad writing, and it made a lot of people upset about how poorly it was written. To have that lead up to "Braham the Kitten" just made a lot of people dislike that character turn even more.

    Let's take that scene, and with the goal of the same basic outcome, rewrite it. Faolain and Eir are freed and start to run for it. Faolain trips, and falls next to a big thorn. She breaks it off and runs after Eir again, and the monster appears before them. Faolain yells out to Eir, tossing the thorn to her. Eir grabs it, and uses it as a weapon to injure the monster and make it back off a bit. But then a second and a third appear from the forest, surrounding them. Eir tells Faolain that when there's an opening, she's to run for it and not look back.

    "You won't last a minute alone against three of them!"
    "Then you'd better run fast."

    Eir attacks, cutscene ends. By the time we get there, Eir's dead and Faolain is gone. Braham has to deal with his mother's death, though having died in combat as a hero, there's perhaps an even greater legacy to carry now. And when he sees Faolain's eventual fate/fall and that Eir's sacrifice to save her was for nothing, it can leave him with serious morality questions that help to explain the later personality shift.

    I prefer the original scene, personally. When a character dies in a sudden and unexpected way, it makes more realistic.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2020

    @Deadly Moonshiner.1354 said:
    Ryland = dead together with Jormag
    Rytlock = Blood Imperator
    Crecia = new Khan-Ur

    Mark my words B)

    While, at this point, I too would be heavily surprised if Ryland survived the season, I can't by any means see Rytlock as an Imperator. He is immature and lacks wisdom, plus he is often driven by his sulky kid mentality -- a person like this is in no position to govern a Legion. (Although it would rid me of his company, so I probably should be in favor of the idea. ;) )

  • Tseison.4659Tseison.4659 Member ✭✭✭

    Or to make things easier, why don’t WE as the player have the ability to create our own team shrugs

  • The Greyhawk.9107The Greyhawk.9107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tseison.4659 said:
    Or to make things easier, why don’t WE as the player have the ability to create our own team shrugs

    Easier? Do you have any idea how hard that would be to develop for a small company like Arenanet?

    Hate Is Fuel.

  • Kichwas.7152Kichwas.7152 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2020

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    My vote is for the humans and the asuran to be removed. I don't like Jory or kas

    With you up to there. Now just add Logan to that list. Make him first.

    I'm still not over him leaving the group in mid-fight in the pre-launch novel to go on a booty call...

    Keep Taimi though. She's one of my favorites.

    I'd be happy to toss out Caithe too. Keep Rox, Canach, and Gorrik.

    And Koss. We just gotta start randomly running around with Koss again - if for no other reason than all the years I spent doing that back in GW1.

    • give him some kind of dialogue option where he hints at the hero he ran with in GW1, and if we're human an option to answer "that's my ancestor".

    Just say no to butt-flaps. | 光復香港 時代革命

  • @Palador.2170 said:

    But... it wasn't great for the story. It was a cheap bit of bad writing, and it made a lot of people upset about how poorly it was written. To have that lead up to "Braham the Kitten" just made a lot of people dislike that character turn even more.

    Let's take that scene, and with the goal of the same basic outcome, rewrite it. Faolain and Eir are freed and start to run for it. Faolain trips, and falls next to a big thorn. She breaks it off and runs after Eir again, and the monster appears before them. Faolain yells out to Eir, tossing the thorn to her. Eir grabs it, and uses it as a weapon to injure the monster and make it back off a bit. But then a second and a third appear from the forest, surrounding them. Eir tells Faolain that when there's an opening, she's to run for it and not look back.

    "You won't last a minute alone against three of them!"
    "Then you'd better run fast."

    Eir attacks, cutscene ends. By the time we get there, Eir's dead and Faolain is gone. Braham has to deal with his mother's death, though having died in combat as a hero, there's perhaps an even greater legacy to carry now. And when he sees Faolain's eventual fate/fall and that Eir's sacrifice to save her was for nothing, it can leave him with serious morality questions that help to explain the later personality shift.

    Signing in to comment that yes, please give me this scene, it would have been perfect.

  • Finalfreefall.8247Finalfreefall.8247 Member ✭✭
    edited November 13, 2020

    @Hypnowulf.7403 said:

    @Finalfreefall.8247 said:
    Guild Wars 2 has had a problem of killing side characters by the dozens while the B-team remains invincible. Makes the story a little silly really. Having Jormag kill Rytlock, Taimi and... what the heck, let's throw Braham in there and that would solve most of Guild War's storytelling problems in one strike.

    As a writer, this made my mind segfault three times in a row. Character development is a cornerstone of writing and—at the moment—that's exactly what's happening. So, whenever a character gets any development we murder them? This new wave writing sounds incredibly lazy. Let's just murder everyone for schlocky shock and sleazy schadenfreude, then we can call it a day. We'll make a new round of characters and do the same to them, too!

    I've never understood the hate for the characters, really. I like all of them. Taimi though is especially egregious as she's very autistic in nature so where the loathing for her persence derives from is disgracefully transparent.

    Oh dude, it got so bad that Anet's nearly run out of (connected to the player) characters to maim or kill. So during PoF, they pulled a TON of characters from Elona and some from other GW1 areas, and added them to the suffering bonfire. This is... yeah. It's very bad. The relatively bulletproof qualities of the B-team only makes it worse.

  • @Loesh.4697 said:

    @vier.1327 said:

    @WindBlade.8749 said:

    @vier.1327 said:
    Rytlock is the only masculine figure of the team, the one that does not talk about feeling and smash dragons, that is for what we came here.

    Just remember the revenant transformation, it took us an expansion and a whole LS to obtained and explanation.

    Turlock rocks.

    so feeling are not masculine, man can't cry or express worrying about being afraid to loose your friends nooooo..

    What a toxic comment.

    Just a point of view as valid as yours.

    I am sorry I understand something different than you, I suppose that is toxic.

    Uh, why exactly is your point as valid as their point exactly? you aren't entitled to an equal level of respect for holding a point of view that is frankly a poison to society merely by virtue of it being your point of view.

    "You should have feelings"

    "But your views aren't valid, and you aren't entitled to equal respect. "

    Holy kitten.

  • Loesh.4697Loesh.4697 Member ✭✭✭

    @Finalfreefall.8247 said:

    @Loesh.4697 said:

    @vier.1327 said:

    @WindBlade.8749 said:

    @vier.1327 said:
    Rytlock is the only masculine figure of the team, the one that does not talk about feeling and smash dragons, that is for what we came here.

    Just remember the revenant transformation, it took us an expansion and a whole LS to obtained and explanation.

    Turlock rocks.

    so feeling are not masculine, man can't cry or express worrying about being afraid to loose your friends nooooo..

    What a toxic comment.

    Just a point of view as valid as yours.

    I am sorry I understand something different than you, I suppose that is toxic.

    Uh, why exactly is your point as valid as their point exactly? you aren't entitled to an equal level of respect for holding a point of view that is frankly a poison to society merely by virtue of it being your point of view.

    "You should have feelings"

    "But your views aren't valid, and you aren't entitled to equal respect. "

    Holy kitten.

    There are views that are authentically harmful to people or groups in society. The belief that masculinity cannot be emotional is, indeed, toxic. Just because I believe that it's important that people are allowed to have feelings doesn't mean that all ideologies must be taken seriously. To be kind to all people inherently means being cruel to others.

  • Finalfreefall.8247Finalfreefall.8247 Member ✭✭
    edited November 28, 2020

    @Loesh.4697 said:

    @Finalfreefall.8247 said:

    @Loesh.4697 said:

    @vier.1327 said:

    @WindBlade.8749 said:

    @vier.1327 said:
    Rytlock is the only masculine figure of the team, the one that does not talk about feeling and smash dragons, that is for what we came here.

    Just remember the revenant transformation, it took us an expansion and a whole LS to obtained and explanation.

    Turlock rocks.

    so feeling are not masculine, man can't cry or express worrying about being afraid to loose your friends nooooo..

    What a toxic comment.

    Just a point of view as valid as yours.

    I am sorry I understand something different than you, I suppose that is toxic.

    Uh, why exactly is your point as valid as their point exactly? you aren't entitled to an equal level of respect for holding a point of view that is frankly a poison to society merely by virtue of it being your point of view.

    "You should have feelings"

    "But your views aren't valid, and you aren't entitled to equal respect. "

    Holy kitten.

    There are views that are authentically harmful to people or groups in society. The belief that masculinity cannot be emotional is, indeed, toxic. Just because I believe that it's important that people are allowed to have feelings doesn't mean that all ideologies must be taken seriously. To be kind to all people inherently means being cruel to others.

    So... being kind to some people then. And non-uplifting behavior to others. Honestly the fact that no one tried to reason with them and instead went "you're not valid" is shocking to me. At least a little logic. All the great things can be reasoned with logic. To exclude dissent instead of teaching is... religious.

  • deatine.2498deatine.2498 Member ✭✭✭

    Rytlock has always been emotional and irrational from the get-go. He was very, very upset about the death of Snaff. He was so upset that he didn't talk to his chosen scapegoat (Logan) for like, seven years or so, I don't remember. That is a very emotionally driven and not stereotypically charr thing to do, since occasional deaths of warband members are/were expected for charr.

    I quite liked Rytlock when he was pretty irrelevant to how the story played out and was basically just there to guide the player, but find him really grating by now.
    Rytlock is also the reason why we had to chase after a rouge god of war (he freed Balthazar), and somehow the damage he cause with that is never addressed.

    I don't feel there is good writing around that character, he's used at any time when [event] needs [important character] to look good, but without any consequence.
    He was interesting as a character, but the way it is, I find him horrible as a lead.
    Another character with a similar fate is Taimi. Which is sad, because I also really, really liked her when she was introduced.

    If characters are made that important, their story should be made believable and hold weight, and the game lost me quite a while ago in that regard.

  • Loesh.4697Loesh.4697 Member ✭✭✭

    @Finalfreefall.8247 said:

    @Loesh.4697 said:

    @Finalfreefall.8247 said:

    @Loesh.4697 said:

    @vier.1327 said:

    @WindBlade.8749 said:

    @vier.1327 said:
    Rytlock is the only masculine figure of the team, the one that does not talk about feeling and smash dragons, that is for what we came here.

    Just remember the revenant transformation, it took us an expansion and a whole LS to obtained and explanation.

    Turlock rocks.

    so feeling are not masculine, man can't cry or express worrying about being afraid to loose your friends nooooo..

    What a toxic comment.

    Just a point of view as valid as yours.

    I am sorry I understand something different than you, I suppose that is toxic.

    Uh, why exactly is your point as valid as their point exactly? you aren't entitled to an equal level of respect for holding a point of view that is frankly a poison to society merely by virtue of it being your point of view.

    "You should have feelings"

    "But your views aren't valid, and you aren't entitled to equal respect. "

    Holy kitten.

    There are views that are authentically harmful to people or groups in society. The belief that masculinity cannot be emotional is, indeed, toxic. Just because I believe that it's important that people are allowed to have feelings doesn't mean that all ideologies must be taken seriously. To be kind to all people inherently means being cruel to others.

    So... being kind to some people then. And non-uplifting behavior to others. Honestly the fact that no one tried to reason with them and instead went "you're not valid" is shocking to me. At least a little logic. All the great things can be reasoned with logic. To exclude dissent instead of teaching is... religious.

    To exclude dissent instead of reason is human, for good and for bad, attributing it to faith is historical revisionism at it's finest. To argue that all great things can be reasoned with logic is true, but to say that you can reason all great things with logic to everyone is naive. That said, you're ignoring the context: If I had simply said you are not valid as an opener to the conversation that would be one thing. But they asserted that the opinion was valid and I rejected it on the grounds that no, not all opinions are valid especially when they are actively damaging. If they wanted to continue the conversation from there then sure, but I deny the premise by which his point was based upon as I would not listen to someone if they based their opinion on say, phrenology, and indeed actively argue that person is a danger to society.

  • Zola.6197Zola.6197 Member ✭✭✭

    @deatine.2498 said:
    Rytlock is also the reason why we had to chase after a rouge god of war (he freed Balthazar), and somehow the damage he cause with that is never addressed.

    In his defense, he didn’t know it was Balthazar. To him, it was a random old man chained up and abandoned in the mists (who reignited Sohothin’s flame for him to boot). I suppose he could still be blamed for unwittingly freeing Balthazar, but Rytlock didn’t know who the old man was till seeing him again in PoF.

  • Lucio.4190Lucio.4190 Member ✭✭✭

    I like them all, the whole team has a part and contribute to the story in their own way.
    I like how all races are represented in a Lord of the Rings complicated way that makes it work, without everyone going all mushy on each other... too much.
    Everyone also have something they think they need to compensate for and they do it by being awsome.
    When Taimi says "Why do I have to be so kitten good at my job", and I look at our world where everyone has to be humble and are not allowed to mention how good they are, it's kind of liberating watching her having that attitude and that energy.
    Rytlock is more of a Charr and they are grumpy by nature. But he is also that traditional epic hero all parties need to get things done.
    I think the mix of these people has made the story so good replacing someone will need a d*mn good reason.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lucio.4190 said:
    Rytlock is more of a Charr and they are grumpy by nature.

    Yes, grumpy, not whiney and annoyed 24/7.

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭

    just remove all of them except canach