Please rid us of Rytlock and Ryland by the end of this season! - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Please rid us of Rytlock and Ryland by the end of this season!

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  • Bolbo Baggins.8594Bolbo Baggins.8594 Member ✭✭
    edited September 17, 2020

    Hey, leave my buddy for years Rytlock outside of this please ;-)

  • I honestly think the ice brood saga has been awfull in so many aspects, one of them as you said is Rytlock and his son,
    Like you said "whiney, aggressive tone the emotional maturity of a child that has no patience and no respect for anyone 90% of the time and who is frequently throwing tantrums", its like im watching diferent character
    I personaly dont have any interess in his relationship with his son and his need to save him over what is happening around, and the writers did a bad job in fleshing out the steel warband to the point that i didnt even care they died or not.
    its annoying how interesting characters like smodur and soukeeper were kied of and yet the bad ones like taimi, kasmeer, braham, marjory, are still out there (not contributing anything relevant)

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2020

    You ever wonder exactly how the Commander knows how soft Rytlock's fur is, though. If you're a Charr, Rytlock's been with you since the beginning; more than any other character in the series, including Trahearne.

    Think about it.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 16k hours, 27k AP | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Alisha Kei/Druid(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW)
    No need to be best, only good and kind.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I just want the old crew back.

    Zojja was way more tolerable than Taimi, Logan was a flawed creature which complemented Ryhtlock.
    I swear the reason why Rythlock feels the way he does now is because Logan isn't with him, trading banter and being battle bros.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    I just want the old crew back.

    Zojja was way more tolerable than Taimi, Logan was a flawed creature which complemented Ryhtlock.
    I swear the reason why Rythlock feels the way he does now is because Logan isn't with him, trading banter and being battle bros.

    Ehh honestly I like how Canach and Rytlock play off of each other more. Canach is a lot more likable than Caithe too imo. Zojja I'm more mixed on but I'll admit that Eir was better Norn rep than Braham.

  • Raizel.1839Raizel.1839 Member ✭✭✭

    Ryland I dislike too but Rytlock is fine for me.

  • All of the voice acting in this game is aids, and just another reason why i dread LS episodes. "If mordremoth can attack the mother tree in the grove, it can attack anywhere!"said the transexual lettuce 300 times an hour.

  • Vavume.8065Vavume.8065 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    By now, the second I hear his voice (or imagine it when there is no voice-over) I cringe.

    Yeah same, the no voice over chapters have been a blessing.

  • Moyayuki.3619Moyayuki.3619 Member ✭✭✭

    Honestly, one of my biggest complaints about this game (a game I still love, btw) is the attitudes of most of the main cast, particularly those of Dragon's Edge 2.0. Heck, the writers even managed to make the Commander, the character I play, unlikable at points. The best example I have is what they did with making everyone distrust Caithe in HoT and for quite a bit through LWS3. I had played through the story from start to finish up until HoT got released, even played LWS1 back when it was live, and not once did I find any reason to think Caithe was up to nefarious deeds with the egg. I get it, the dragon could more easily corrupt Sylvari, but I had faith in Caithe. I had played Sylvari toons and knew Caithe wouldn't go off on her own without good reason (instead, there were other characters who, if THEY went off like that, I WOULD be worried).

    It really frustrated me, and still frustrates me to this day, when characters insist on making a mountain out of molehill, or acting like a petulant child, putting dear friends at risk for nothing. A lot of drama I've seen has been the fault of characters not being able to get over themselves. Heck, look at the three Orders in the Personal Story, when we are getting them to work together to free Claw Island! Each Order rep thinks it's okay to slander the other Orders and not trust them just because they think THEIR WAY IS SUPERIOR! I get it, those kinds of people exist IRL, and the point of fighting Zhaitan was having everyone get past their short-sightedness and judgmental world views. But after Zhaitan, there should have been ZERO excuse for that kind of behavior. I don't care that Braham is still young - he doesn't get to throw a hissy fit just because he thinks he has some justification. I don't like characters being a walking stereotype/cliche/archetype, whatever you want to call it.

    Ugh, sorry, need to take a breather... I know I did not address Rytlock at all in my post, mostly because I haven't finished PoF and played LWS4, but the OP's post reminded me of how much I sometimes hate the writers' decisions. And I am a PvEr who prefers to play story content, so sadly I cannot escape the characters who could have been written better.

  • vier.1327vier.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    Rytlock is the only masculine figure of the team, the one that does not talk about feeling and smash dragons, that is for what we came here.

    Just remember the revenant transformation, it took us an expansion and a whole LS to obtained and explanation.

    Turlock rocks.

  • You all think Rytlock had poor story and is a boring character?

    Feels bad for all those paying gems for LWS2... Marjory and Kasmeer....

  • Loesh.4697Loesh.4697 Member ✭✭✭

    @vier.1327 said:
    Rytlock is the only masculine figure of the team, the one that does not talk about feeling and smash dragons, that is for what we came here.

    Just remember the revenant transformation, it took us an expansion and a whole LS to obtained and explanation.

    Turlock rocks.

    Ironically I like him for the opposite reason. In requiem he actually talks about his feelings and genuinely cares about his son, a sharp contrast to Bangars insane toxic masculinity to the point of stupidity.

  • @Finalfreefall.8247 said:
    Guild Wars 2 has had a problem of killing side characters by the dozens while the B-team remains invincible. Makes the story a little silly really. Having Jormag kill Rytlock, Taimi and... what the heck, let's throw Braham in there and that would solve most of Guild War's storytelling problems in one strike.

    As a writer, this made my mind segfault three times in a row. Character development is a cornerstone of writing and—at the moment—that's exactly what's happening. So, whenever a character gets any development we murder them? This new wave writing sounds incredibly lazy. Let's just murder everyone for schlocky shock and sleazy schadenfreude, then we can call it a day. We'll make a new round of characters and do the same to them, too!

    I've never understood the hate for the characters, really. I like all of them. Taimi though is especially egregious as she's very autistic in nature so where the loathing for her persence derives from is disgracefully transparent.

  • @voltaicbore.8012 said:
    To be fair, people are consistently missing the point that OP never asked for them to be killed, just removed from the story.

    Subjective distaste is a good reason for that, though? I really don't think it is.

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:
    [...] had a blast listening to the corrupted spirits roast Braham.

    Can't agree. If anything, it made me very distrustful of these spirits. I trust them less than I trust Jormag at this point.

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:
    Guess what, a lot of people's cubs are out there doing dumb things and getting killed.

    That's not a reason to lack compassion for anyone's family though, is it? I don't know, it might be coming from a more empathetic place but I really can't relate to your anger. I'm unable to relate to being angry about a story expecting us to care about love.

    If my character doesn't see Rytlock as a particularly close friend [...]

    Well, you do. So anything beyond that is moot. I mean, that's the way the Commander is written. Rytlock is family.

  • @Gibson.4036 said:
    This is exactly why I'd love to see [Rytlock] go. He reads as a boy trying hard to do an impression of a manly warrior.

    That's not my read of him at all. "I need a win, Commander," is one of the most vulnerable things I've heard anyone in the game say. I think it's because it's a profoundly shallow perspective, it's looking at the surface without seeing anything beyond it, it's not especially reflective or introspective to say the least. Rytlock isn't trying to be a manly warrior, he's an old warrior who's suffering from something I'm not sure you'd want to understand. Rytlock's got himself a case of veteran PTSD. Bangar played mind games with him for so long, belittling him, undermining his confidence, and sending him off on quixotic suicide missions with the promise of regaining his lost valour that he's just broken at this point. I mean, don't get me wrong, he's absolutely a good fighter but as a person? He's broken.

    Bangar plied his manipulations with Crecia as well to grow her independence by depicting Rytlock as someone she couldn't rely on. He promised to be her rock, loyal as a hound, unwavering, and always by her side and all she'd have to grant him in return is her undying obeissance. This is readily seen in her many vehement defences of him. So long as Crecia walks the very thin line laid out for her, Bangar will be the husband and father that she and Ryland need. He's good at playing mind games is Bangar, his charisma is a super power and his words can kill. This is why Jormag silenced Bangar, out of compassion for those whose lives had been lost or ruined to his egomania.

    Rytlock still struggles with the lack of worth that Bangar ingrained in him. I mean, yes, he knows he's a decent fighter but he struggles with feeling completely worthless and unworthy in every way other than that. It's why he puts on a front, since he's been expected to be a leader, he's supposed to be an inspirational figure as a tribune, but it's all worn on him. So of course he's insecure. He feels like all he can ever be is the sword he hits things with which is why Sohothin is held in so high of a regard. In giving Sohothin to the Commander at the end of Path of Fire, we see a turning point in Rytlock's personality where he's begun to realise what's been done to him and how to set it right. He's placed all of what little self-esteem he had in a blade... There's no future for him in that, he can't continue just being an extension of the weapon he holds.

    Rytlock is a downtrodden, world weary warrior who's just had the endurance to brush himself off and keep going, no matter what's been done to him or how he's been degraded time and time again. If you're constantly the target of so much abuse though it does have an effect. You try to be what you think you need to be in order to overcome the weak state you've found yourself in where you can be abused, but at the same time you can't deny how you feel underneath all of the pomp and bluster. Rytlock was tired for a very long time, it's only through his friends in Dragon's Watch that he's really begun to find himself. For the longest time, yes, he was just the façade of a high-ranking Blood legion warrior sat atop the truth of an abused, vulnerable man who felt he barely even had a right to exist.

    As such, I'm sorry but... Rytlock as an "alpha" is the most laughably wrong thing I've read in a while. It couldn't be further from the truth. Yes, Rytlock can be both whiny whilst also having the pretence of aggression, the illusion of intimidation. That's who he was for a long time, he's only now beginning to break those chains. It's as Jormag themself said though, it's ultimately all going to come down to whether Rytlock and Crecia can do the most difficult thing any two old veteran warriors could do: talk. Otherwise their wounds will never mend and their suffering will only continue, they need someone to make them sit down and hash it out.

    That character development is happening now and I'm thoroughly enjoying it.

    @Gibson.4036 said:
    Now, if the story in season 5 (which I haven't started yet) reveals that Rytlock has deep insecurities that he's trying to cover with a thin layer of bravado that might be interesting.

    It... already has. It's been ongoing for quite some time. It's been a very consistent aspect of his personality.

    @Gibson.4036 said:
    I did appreciate that Rox found some Charr who don't seem to be obsessed with defining themselves by how hard and how frequently they can beat their own chests.

    Now I know you're not paying attention as most charr aren't like that. I could roll off a hundred charr characters who don't match that description really easily, starting with Tybalt...

  • @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Yea that, kill [Gorrik].

    I... actually really like Gorrik. As someone who thinks that insects generally get a bit of a bum rap, I'm enchanted by his love of them. It's not often we get to see an entomologist in fiction because "bugs are icky" so it's not a popular choice. Shrug. I like him. I don't hate any of the Dragon's Watch cast really, I... simply don't have it in me. I find some to be a little twee and quaint (sorry Kas) but hate? Nah. Not even dislike. They're fine.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hypnowulf.7403 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Yea that, kill [Gorrik].

    I... actually really like Gorrik. As someone who thinks that insects generally get a bit of a bum rap, I'm enchanted by his love of them. It's not often we get to see an entomologist in fiction because "bugs are icky" so it's not a popular choice. Shrug. I like him. I don't hate any of the Dragon's Watch cast really, I... simply don't have it in me. I find some to be a little twee and quaint (sorry Kas) but hate? Nah. Not even dislike. They're fine.

    Good for you, I loathe the little vermin. Its not even his fascination with bugs (Something I find interesting, especially given cantha is upcoming.) He is just a boring character who is honestly obnoxious. Worthless in a fight, second-rate to taimi and her knowledge and otherwise filler for some plot point likely coming down the road. Id love for him to die, along with kas and majory~ I honestly don't like very many of "dragons watch."

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2020

    @Hypnowulf.7403 said:

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:
    To be fair, people are consistently missing the point that OP never asked for them to be killed, just removed from the story.

    Subjective distaste is a good reason for that, though? I really don't think it is.

    Yep, a number of people already mentioned that (the idea that not liking characters is a flimsy basis for their removal), and I don't contest it.

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:
    [...] had a blast listening to the corrupted spirits roast Braham.

    Can't agree. If anything, it made me very distrustful of these spirits. I trust them less than I trust Jormag at this point.

    Cool.

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:
    Guess what, a lot of people's cubs are out there doing dumb things and getting killed.

    That's not a reason to lack compassion for anyone's family though, is it? I don't know, it might be coming from a more empathetic place but I really can't relate to your anger. I'm unable to relate to being angry about a story expecting us to care about love.

    Eh. There's a lot of conflation in your thoughts here. Lack of compassion doesn't necessarily indicate anger. In this case, my lack of compassion for the Ryland situation stems from a deep indifference to that family's woes. The fact that this narrative is being pushed in my face at the cost of what I hoped would be a more interesting story about the Norn is disappointing, sure, but I'm not angry about it.

    If my character doesn't see Rytlock as a particularly close friend [...]

    Well, you do. So anything beyond that is moot. I mean, that's the way the Commander is written. Rytlock is family.

    I concede this point entirely - the story unequivocally demonstrates that the Commander and Rytlock are very close friends. I was wrapped up in thinking about all my characters who don't really interact with Rytlock at all outside of the more recent living world episodes, outside of which it's entirely possible for our characters to never come across the guy.

    I must have higher narrative standards than you do. Yes, this story is supposedly about love, as you noted - but that alone isn't nearly enough to get passing marks from me. Sure, it might be a story about love, but it might also be a haphazardly constructed story with uncompelling characters as well. I'm quite unimpressed with what's been shown of Crecia and Ryland so far, and Rytlock does marginally better in my book solely out of the strength of his development prior to what the Saga's done to him.

  • kettering.6823kettering.6823 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2020

    Getting through season 5 has been grueling for me. I care absolutely 0% about Charr and Charr politics, so the first episode was tough for me. I don't like Braham much either, but Bjora Marches' horror theme was at least enough to redeem it (it's a super cool map, I love it). Now that I'm in Drizzlewood Coast I actually cannot bring myself to go further lol. I hate this map, I hate Charr politics, I hate Ryland and Bangar and to a lesser extent Rytlock. I just wanna fight a dragon. This lacks all the intrigue of all previous story arcs and without any voice acting I have 0 motivation to finish anything. I know the latter isn't anyone's fault though.

    But I'm sure there are some people who felt this way about S2 and HoT and Sylvari so I won't say it's objectively bad. I just personally really hate it and wish I could just skip it altogether.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 8, 2020

    my 2cents what we may get at the end of S5, Rytlock will try to kill Ryland, as he is delivering the finishing blow, Crecia will jump in front and got killed

    out of despair and guilt, Rytlock commits seppuku with Sohothin, but instead of killing himself, Balthzaar's magic that got channelled into Sohothin to light it up engulfs Rytlock, and he comes the new God of War

    with his newfound power, he purifies Ryland of his Jormag's corruption, clears Foefire ghosts from Ascalon, rekindles the flame of the reforged Magdaer, and leaves the mortal realm... the Charrs starts worshipping him as their new god, and the story of Rytlock ends on Tyria

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • I think> @White Kitsunee.4620 said:

    You get rid of rytlock you get rid of 1 of 2 good characters in the secondary cast.
    So all we will have left is Canach

    no! Way! Canach is way more irritating than Rytlock.

    I suggest we kill Taimi. she's way more irritating than Canach

  • Gibson.4036Gibson.4036 Member ✭✭
    edited October 10, 2020

    @Hypnowulf.7403 said:

    @Gibson.4036 said:
    This is exactly why I'd love to see [Rytlock] go. He reads as a boy trying hard to do an impression of a manly warrior.

    That's not my read of him at all. "I need a win, Commander," is one of the most vulnerable things I've heard anyone in the game say.
    Now I know you're not paying attention as most charr aren't like that. I could roll off a hundred charr characters who don't match that description really easily, starting with Tybalt...

    Fair.

    Now that I'm into season 5, he's reading a lot differently to me. And of course, yes, Tybalt. But Tybalt came across as so wildly, starkly different than almost any other Charr I meet up until the Olmakhan (and gone so early in the core story) that I'd completely forgotten about him.

    It's entirely possible I was so turned off by what is on the surface of Charr culture that I never bothered to look closely at it the rest of the game.

    And yes, General Soulkeeper is another Charr that didn't fit the chest-thumper stereotype and I cared about her.

  • I've replayed vanilla story recently, and let me tell ya, I like Rytlock so much better when he's not our subordinate. Back then he was a real kitten.

  • @vier.1327 said:
    Rytlock is the only masculine figure of the team, the one that does not talk about feeling and smash dragons, that is for what we came here.

    Just remember the revenant transformation, it took us an expansion and a whole LS to obtained and explanation.

    Turlock rocks.

    so feeling are not masculine, man can't cry or express worrying about being afraid to loose your friends nooooo..

    What a toxic comment.

  • vier.1327vier.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    @WindBlade.8749 said:

    @vier.1327 said:
    Rytlock is the only masculine figure of the team, the one that does not talk about feeling and smash dragons, that is for what we came here.

    Just remember the revenant transformation, it took us an expansion and a whole LS to obtained and explanation.

    Turlock rocks.

    so feeling are not masculine, man can't cry or express worrying about being afraid to loose your friends nooooo..

    What a toxic comment.

    Just a point of view as valid as yours.

    I am sorry I understand something different than you, I suppose that is toxic.

  • I agree with this sentiment a little too much. Rytlock has been the “mystery box” in almost every step of the story, and one of the key players in the ones where he’s not. Give some of the other characters time to shine; there are plenty of other great ones that always get shouldered out in favor of more Rytlock. There is currently absolutely no reason that he should be a driving force into and of the Cantha story.

  • Liewec.2896Liewec.2896 Member ✭✭✭

    i like rytlock, but ANNOYING KIDS does seem to be a GW2 theme
    first Braham and now Ryland

  • Loesh.4697Loesh.4697 Member ✭✭✭

    @vier.1327 said:

    @WindBlade.8749 said:

    @vier.1327 said:
    Rytlock is the only masculine figure of the team, the one that does not talk about feeling and smash dragons, that is for what we came here.

    Just remember the revenant transformation, it took us an expansion and a whole LS to obtained and explanation.

    Turlock rocks.

    so feeling are not masculine, man can't cry or express worrying about being afraid to loose your friends nooooo..

    What a toxic comment.

    Just a point of view as valid as yours.

    I am sorry I understand something different than you, I suppose that is toxic.

    Uh, why exactly is your point as valid as their point exactly? you aren't entitled to an equal level of respect for holding a point of view that is frankly a poison to society merely by virtue of it being your point of view.

  • I loved Rytlock. Until he got all whiney about Ryland. Seeing Ryland die and Rytlock going back to his cynical self would be much appreciated. I would also like to see more of Kasmeer AND Marjory. There can not be enough Canach. I am glad Rox is gone and if Braham disappears to sit at Taimi's death bed, I would not be too sorry. Despite all the laughs I got out of Taimi.