Why did you make us keep the T1 Stormcaller weapons? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Why did you make us keep the T1 Stormcaller weapons?

Brimstar.9036Brimstar.9036 Member ✭✭
edited July 28, 2020 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

" Stormcaller weapons are the legions' first attempt at harnessing the elements to battle Bangar's renegades. Expect these weapons to be capable of upgrades in the near future. "

So this line on each Stormcaller weapon was useless? Note that this line has been removed on each Stormcaller weapon since today patch. What was the point for T1 if you can just make T2 to begin with? Seriously, this is a big slap in the face and a waste of my time.

Comments

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭

    Why is it them changing to prevent tickets some slap in the face. The dummy's who salvaged the first set complained and would of been out 180g remaking them.

  • Because of all the inevitable support tickets from people who, even though the items explicitly states it will be upgradeable, deleted them for whatever reason and want them back. Obviously just a decision change after they saw how many people deleted them through their metrics.
    Because people are kitten kittens.

    How is it a slap in the face? You can still salvage them. The bank space is recoverable you know. You don't have to leave them in there. How did it waste any of your time? You mean the 2 seconds where you transferred it from your inventory to the bank?

  • @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:
    Because of all the inevitable support tickets from people who, even though the items explicitly states it will be upgradeable, deleted them for whatever reason and want them back. Obviously just a decision change after they saw how many people deleted them through their metrics.
    Because people are kitten kittens.

    How is it a slap in the face? You can still salvage them. The bank space is recoverable you know. You don't have to leave them in there. How did it waste any of your time? You mean the 2 seconds where you transferred it from your inventory to the bank?

    Why are you defending a stupid design? Who cares if they warned you? Why design it that way? They've been doing collections for years where you just unlock the part you need and then you don't need it anymore. Is that not the smarter way to handle this than force people to hold off crafting or hold on to the items indefinitely until they need them?

    Where did I defend anything there? I'm not defending it. I can just understand there are reasons for design changes and then I get over it.
    Oh, wait, ok I'll defend it. Adding the weapon to the recipe to craft the upper tier is exactly the same as legendary weapons so its not like there is no precident for this happening. The other benefit would be that because there are generally three materials used to craft a weapon, the item could have functioned as two of them and you could just put the weapon and a core to upgrade it. But designs change.

  • I'm just grateful I don't have to hoard them all like the Bitterfrost weapons I may never upgrade.
    Thanks, Anet!

  • So, first of all, the notes were on the weapons to begin with to forshadow it can be upgraded in the future. So, now that the T2 is out, there isn’t really a need to have the forshadowing anymore since everyone knows there is a tier 2 and thus craft T1 and not destroy it. My next question is, I haven’t seen the T2 recipe yet, but has anyone seen what it takes to actually make the T2 weapons yet? I suspect the amalgamated draconic lodestone is one part, but I bet the T1 weap is another part. Similar to how Illuminated Boreal Weapons were made.

  • notebene.3190notebene.3190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    That’s a bummer. I had kept them all but 2, which I destroyed before reading. I then asked support if they could restore them and they would not, so today I made the 2 I was missing, costing me 17g for charged lodestones I was missing, and mats, and now you’re telling me I made them again for no reason?

    Jesus 😞

    In the event I don't get a chance, thank you all for the company and help when I needed it from time to time.

  • zombyturtle.5980zombyturtle.5980 Member ✭✭✭

    While this doesnt really affect me as I havnt even made T1 yet, I will say I think the 'warning' they gave on the weapons was terrible inadequate and I dont blame people for not noticing it.

    • It took the place of flavor text, which most people dont read

      • It was in plain grey writing, instead of red
      • There are multiple other systems in game designed to prevent people destroying important items which work 10x better which anet chose to not use
      • Bjora set the expectation that even if the weapon was destroyed, a replacement could be bought for a small amount of gold/currency
  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Proof you can never satisfy everyone.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Brimstar.9036 said:
    Seriously, this is a big slap in the face and a waste of my time.

    :lol: Are you being serious? Just sell them or salvage them.

  • Mauzi.5892Mauzi.5892 Member ✭✭✭

    Yes this is kitten. The argument that people would create tickets is invalid. They did a similar thing with the boreal weapons. You can buy the discounted one for a few silver if you wanna craft the upgrade and don't have the original anymore.

    And maybe I'm mistaken, but didn't it say somewhere you get a Stormcaller Core from salvaging these weapons? I kept them for the T2 and now that we don't really need them I figuered I would at least get some cores back.... nope.... ZERO cores from salvaging them. Was this stealth nerfed as well?

    All in all I'm VERY disappointed in this release -.-

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    Proof you can never satisfy everyone.

    No, more like proof that inconsistency is a big negative, and ANET's most consistent quality is that they are inconsistent.

    If they came to a realization and decided to change the design, they should create an official forum and maybe sign up a Twitter and Reddit account, and make an announcement so the player base is aware of the change...rather than just do a stealth removal of the weapon tooltips.

    Wait? ANET already has an official forum and a twitter/reddit account? Oh. Well, that's all I have by way of excuses. How about you?

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2020

    If you had been paying attention, Arenanet has been inconsistent about many things related to ingame content even before a pandemic was ongoing. I really don't think this is as much of an issue as people make it out to be, seeing how the only detriment is some people lost inventory spaces up until now and maybe obtained a title/mastery point they wouldn't have gone for. Anyone starting that content now is not going to expect T1 Stormcaller required for T2 Charged stormcaller weapons.

    Of course there could have been a recipe that required fewer resources if you had T1 Stormcaller weapons unlocked, I know. Given that materials are thrown at you every step of the way in Drizzlewood coast it is probably just to balance the economy.

    Before anyone says it didn't affect me, I had all T1 stormcaller weapons about a month after the last episode and they've been in storage.

  • Manasa Devi.7958Manasa Devi.7958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    If you had been paying attention, Arenanet has been inconsistent about many things related to ingame content even before a pandemic was ongoing. I really don't think this is as much of an issue as people make it out to be, seeing how the only detriment is some people lost inventory spaces up until now. Anyone starting that content now is not going to expect T1 Stormcaller required for T2 Charged stormcaller weapons.

    Of course there could have been a recipe that required fewer resources if you had T1 Stormcaller weapons unlocked, I know. Given that materials are thrown at you every step of the way in Drizzlewood coast it is probably just to balance the economy.

    Before anyone says it didn't affect me, I had all T1 stormcaller weapons about a month after the last episode and they've been in storage.

    It's not just an inventory issue, it's also an issue of perhaps having crafted tier 1 weapons at all.

  • Witch of Doom.5739Witch of Doom.5739 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would really like an answer from ANet on this. Before I salvage my T1s and probably end up with a bunch of rocks, can they let us know if there will be an alternate recipe to craft T2s that includes the T1s as a component?

  • This is probably the reason why these new weapons are so expensive to make, around 300-500g fot the entire set, since they use amalgamated draconic lodestone.
    It goes like this: Exotic Inscription>2 Amalgamated Lodestone>10 Ecto>2 Storm Core, that's around 50g for each t2 weapon, the t1 weapons would probably be used instead of the Draconic Lodestones, making it a bit cheaper for people that crafted them, bummer.

    But i will still hold all my T1, never know if Anet see the complains and put some new recipe that allows you to use your T1 weapons, or allow you to salvage them for cores at least hehe.

  • Will.9785Will.9785 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2020

    I won't be crafting the tier 2 weapons until they add the recipe that uses tier 1s. At the very least they could replace the amalgamated lodestones with the tier 1 weapon. I probably also won't bother with crafting any of the other weapons they add in future living story episodes, especially if they are supposedly "upgrade-able". Not after this.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    Proof you can never satisfy everyone.

    No, more like proof that inconsistency is a big negative, and ANET's most consistent quality is that they are inconsistent.

    If they came to a realization and decided to change the design, they should create an official forum and maybe sign up a Twitter and Reddit account, and make an announcement so the player base is aware of the change...rather than just do a stealth removal of the weapon tooltips.

    Wait? ANET already has an official forum and a twitter/reddit account? Oh. Well, that's all I have by way of excuses. How about you?

    but if ANet stops being inconsistent they will no longer be consistently inconsistent!

    @Brandon Uzumaki.1524 said:
    This is probably the reason why these new weapons are so expensive to make, around 300-500g fot the entire set, since they use amalgamated draconic lodestone.

    Heh ... if only it was only 300-500g right now it is 1048g for the set

    It goes like this: Exotic Inscription>2 Amalgamated Lodestone>10 Ecto>2 Storm Core, that's around 50g for each t2 weapon, the t1 weapons would probably be used instead of the Draconic Lodestones, making it a bit cheaper for people that crafted them, bummer.

    Not really. If you take a look at the recipes they are
    T1 -
    1 weapon component 1
    1 weapon component 2
    1 inscription
    1 stormcaller core

    T2 -
    10 ecto
    1 inscription
    2 amalgamated draconic gemstones
    2 stormcaller core

    If they had stuck with the upgrade route it would have been much more likely to be closer to
    t1 weapon
    2 amalgamated draconic gemstone
    10 ecto
    2 stormcaller core

    Just take a look of the boreal recipes ...
    T1
    1 weapon component 1
    1 weapon component 2
    1 inscription
    10 eitrite ingot

    T2
    t1 weapon
    2 amalgamated draconic gemstone
    10 ecto
    35 eitrite ingot

  • Locce.8405Locce.8405 Member ✭✭✭

    I am glad they reconsidered, and hopefully they stay away from having us hoard whole weapon sets for months to craft the next tier out of them. That's almost a whole bag slot gone just for skins and with that a pretty inefficient way of using said bag space.

  • Will.9785Will.9785 Member ✭✭✭

    @Locce.8405 said:
    I am glad they reconsidered, and hopefully they stay away from having us hoard whole weapon sets for months to craft the next tier out of them. That's almost a whole bag slot gone just for skins and with that a pretty inefficient way of using said bag space.

    I'm fine with them reconsidering for the next weapon set... but they cannot be doing this mid-stream. They screwed over a lot of people with this move.

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Will.9785 said:
    There should be cheaper recipe that uses the tier 1 weapons. They went around for months telling people these would be needed to upgrade to tier 2. I spent a lot of gold and materials to craft them because of that, and now all of that gold and materials were basically flushed down the toilet and it was a complete waste of time. They shouldn't do that to people. Please give us a cheaper recipe.

    Where did ArenaNet exactly say you would need the T1 to upgrade to T2...certainly not by putting a little description that says: "Stormcaller weapons are the legions' first attempt at harnessing the elements to battle Bangar's renegades. Expect these weapons to be capable of upgrades in the near future. " All that says is to expect the weapons to be upgradable in the near future, now you can argue that including the word "upgrade" means you need the original to improve it, but that's not necessarily so, it's all in how you interpret the word upgrade. Had they said you need the T1 to upgrade to T2 in the near future then I can see the argument, the way it was actually written...I disagree it made it a complete waste of time. There was a purpose to it, to have you make the T1 weapon(s) before you could make the T2 whether you actually needed to use the T1 or not.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • Will.9785Will.9785 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2020

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Will.9785 said:
    There should be cheaper recipe that uses the tier 1 weapons. They went around for months telling people these would be needed to upgrade to tier 2. I spent a lot of gold and materials to craft them because of that, and now all of that gold and materials were basically flushed down the toilet and it was a complete waste of time. They shouldn't do that to people. Please give us a cheaper recipe.

    Where did ArenaNet exactly say you would need the T1 to upgrade to T2...certainly not by putting a little description that says: "Stormcaller weapons are the legions' first attempt at harnessing the elements to battle Bangar's renegades. Expect these weapons to be capable of upgrades in the near future. " All that says is to expect the weapons to be upgradable in the near future, now you can argue that including the word "upgrade" means you need the original to improve it, but that's not necessarily so, it's all in how you interpret the word upgrade. Had they said you need the T1 to upgrade to T2 in the near future then I can see the argument, the way it was actually written...I disagree it made it a complete waste of time. There was a purpose to it, to have you make the T1 weapon(s) before you could make the T2 whether you actually needed to use the T1 or not.

    The fact that it says "expect THESE WEAPONS to be capable of upgrades" is argument enough. It explicitly says "these" - as in these ones right here. And it doesn't say "replaced", "superseded", or anything like that. It says upgrade-able... as in "these weapons" are upgrade-able. Seriously, don't try to argue semantics. It's pretty clear what it said.

  • Witch of Doom.5739Witch of Doom.5739 Member ✭✭✭✭

    "Expect these weapons to be capable of upgrades in the near future" heavily implied that the weapons themselves would be upgradeable, and then to literally remove that tease on the day of the next episode without an explanation was weird. Look, I disagree with the title of this post in that ANet certainly did not "make" anyone keep these T1 weapons. I just hope that they make the Charged T2 ones obtainable in a second way, by using the T1 as one of the ingredients.

  • Locce.8405Locce.8405 Member ✭✭✭

    @Will.9785 said:

    @Locce.8405 said:
    I am glad they reconsidered, and hopefully they stay away from having us hoard whole weapon sets for months to craft the next tier out of them. That's almost a whole bag slot gone just for skins and with that a pretty inefficient way of using said bag space.

    I'm fine with them reconsidering for the next weapon set... but they cannot be doing this mid-stream. They screwed over a lot of people with this move.

    How? I mean, sure, they blocked those bag slots for no good reason now, but if the devs hadn't changed it they still would have blocked the very same bag slots, just for a better reason. All the skins they unlocked are still unlocked. All the achievement points and the mastery point gained by crafting them are still on the books. All the upgraded skins they want to unlock they can still unlock.
    Nobody lost anything here that they would not have lost otherwise. I don't see how that could possibly equate to anyone getting screwed over. This is not even crying over spilt milk since the milk would have been spilt either way. This is just wanting a special thank you for spilling the milk.

  • Will.9785Will.9785 Member ✭✭✭

    @Locce.8405 said:

    @Will.9785 said:

    @Locce.8405 said:
    I am glad they reconsidered, and hopefully they stay away from having us hoard whole weapon sets for months to craft the next tier out of them. That's almost a whole bag slot gone just for skins and with that a pretty inefficient way of using said bag space.

    I'm fine with them reconsidering for the next weapon set... but they cannot be doing this mid-stream. They screwed over a lot of people with this move.

    How? I mean, sure, they blocked those bag slots for no good reason now, but if the devs hadn't changed it they still would have blocked the very same bag slots, just for a better reason. All the skins they unlocked are still unlocked. All the achievement points and the mastery point gained by crafting them are still on the books. All the upgraded skins they want to unlock they can still unlock.
    Nobody lost anything here that they would not have lost otherwise. I don't see how that could possibly equate to anyone getting screwed over. This is not even crying over spilt milk since the milk would have been spilt either way. This is just wanting a special thank you for spilling the milk.

    The new skins make the old ones worthless. Seriously... why would i bother crafting the old ones when the new ones look better in every way? Had I known then what I know now (i.e. had they not misled me) I wouldn't have crafted them and I've still have my gold and materials.

  • Kaliwenda.3428Kaliwenda.3428 Member ✭✭✭

    The stormcaller weaponset is the first complete set that I've crafted in the game. I did save them all because I thought I remembered reading about the Bjora Marches upgradable weapon set needing the first tier set and people who had salvaged them were upset that they didn't get a heads-up about it. So I can understand why people assumed that they needed to keep them for the Tier 2 set, I thought the same thing.

    I'm not fussed about crafting them tho because I like having the Stormcaller title and I needed the achievement to get the No Quarter mastery done since I haven't done any Strike Missions other than the first one.

    I'll hang on to them for now in case anything changes.

  • Locce.8405Locce.8405 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2020

    @Will.9785 said:
    The new skins make the old ones worthless. Seriously... why would i bother crafting the old ones when the new ones look better in every way? Had I known then what I know now (i.e. had they not misled me) I wouldn't have crafted them and I've still have my gold and materials.

    Firstly, that is a matter of personal taste. The new skins don't objectively look better, you subjectively just like them better. That's hardly an appropriate standard for making decisions affecting oodles of players.
    Secondly, then it follows logically that the issue is not the change but the previous model as a directly upgradable weapon set (and I would agree there, because that model is a bit garbage as I said earlier). If they had not changed it you still would have crafted the previous weapons. You would still be out of your gold and materials. Even if you don't care about the achievement and the mastery point at all and don't like the older skins at all the worst you could say is that you are missing out on a discount that players who have the same preferences but for some reason waited get to enjoy.
    That's simply not a rational reason for claiming that players get screwed over by this change mid-stream. You could make that case if you had evidence that the devs wanted to make this change all along and included the warning message as a trap for players like you because of... reasons, but I don't see that happening.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Will.9785 said:
    There should be cheaper recipe that uses the tier 1 weapons. They went around for months telling people these would be needed to upgrade to tier 2. I spent a lot of gold and materials to craft them because of that, and now all of that gold and materials were basically flushed down the toilet and it was a complete waste of time. They shouldn't do that to people. Please give us a cheaper recipe.

    Where did ArenaNet exactly say you would need the T1 to upgrade to T2...certainly not by putting a little description that says: "Stormcaller weapons are the legions' first attempt at harnessing the elements to battle Bangar's renegades. Expect these weapons to be capable of upgrades in the near future. " All that says is to expect the weapons to be upgradable in the near future, now you can argue that including the word "upgrade" means you need the original to improve it, but that's not necessarily so, it's all in how you interpret the word upgrade. Had they said you need the T1 to upgrade to T2 in the near future then I can see the argument, the way it was actually written...I disagree it made it a complete waste of time. There was a purpose to it, to have you make the T1 weapon(s) before you could make the T2 whether you actually needed to use the T1 or not.

    There is a very significant difference between something like, "Expect upgrades of these weapons to exist in the near future," and, " Expect these weapons to be capable of upgrades in the near future. " The latter is an explicit statement that the existing weapons will be able to be upgraded.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Locce.8405 said:
    That's simply not a rational reason for claiming that players get screwed over by this change mid-stream. You could make that case if you had evidence that the devs wanted to make this change all along and included the warning message as a trap for players like you because of... reasons, but I don't see that happening.

    I disagree with this part. Someone can be, "screwed over," even if the action causing this is unintentional.

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well would be stupid idea force players keep some silly exotics in bag no idea how long. Exotic is always insta salvage.

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    totally agree with OP, these should have been upgradable like boreal weapons; spent 20g and if salvaged it's just couple of silver is already not cool, now ~120g 😡

    ... should have been ascended like Astral -> Stellar (~50g); I can bet not a lot of people have finished collecting this entire set


    to those complaining about griffon cost 200g, here is what you should really be complaining because it'll take you years to finish Stormcaller + Charged Stormcaller


    and make it so stupidly expensive to craft an item that will simply be thrown away, I have a really bad omen that we will be having a massive content drought very soon.

    especially the fact that Icebrood Saga Material from reward tracks only have 1 more map currency left, and if we are getting 2 part map again, this could mean that the final chapter of Icebrood Saga will finish up in Q1 2021, then a massive content drought til Cantha, unless Anet is really gonna stretch it by having a 3rd LW season between expansions (Hot had 2 leading up to it, PoF had 1 leading up to it)

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  • Locce.8405Locce.8405 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Locce.8405 said:
    That's simply not a rational reason for claiming that players get screwed over by this change mid-stream. You could make that case if you had evidence that the devs wanted to make this change all along and included the warning message as a trap for players like you because of... reasons, but I don't see that happening.

    I disagree with this part. Someone can be, "screwed over," even if the action causing this is unintentional.

    Oh, sure, I agree that one could be screwed over even if the action is unintentional. But you would have to make that argument based on prerequisites that are not given here, mainly that the relevant actions were not your own. But if you really did not care about the achievement, the previous skins or the mastery point there was no good reason for spending that gold and those materials before seeing the full picture, i.e. this patch. Considering that the whole weapon set consumes more bank/bag space than the materials needed to craft it, the smart move would have been to only craft the weapons when you can directly consume them for the upgraded version. So, it's not even a case of hindsight being 20/20.

    Now, if there was malice involved the picture would be a bit different. Compare it to a car accident: when you run a stop sign and collide with another person's car the fault is mainly yours, maybe to some degree on their part if they were speeding or something like that. But if you can show that the other party was actually just waiting for someone to run that stop sign in order to intentionally ram them, maybe for some sort of insurance scam, then your running the stop sign is off the table, although the caused damage would be the same.
    Same here: if the upgradability warning was added as a trap for players like you then you being a bit hasty about crafting a weapon set that you didn't actually want would be a lot less relevant. Then you could make the case that you were screwed over.

    And don't get me wrong here: I can absolutely empathise with your situation. Kitten if I have not stupidly thrown money out the window in this game. :wink:
    It's just that I don't think it's rationally justifiable to claim you were screwed over, even if you naturally feel that way after spending that much on the weapon set. And yes, either creating alternative recipes that consume the old weapons or making the Stormcaller Cores in the old set salvagable would have been a good peace offer for those who have already crafted the other set. The line of argument for that is just not "You owe me because you screwed me over." but "Hey, I trusted that the plan would not change, and now this seems to cost me extra."

  • I am extremely disappointed about this issue as well as the extraordinary cost to make these new weapons that require BOTH Stormcores AND Amalgamated Draconic Gemstones! I read, and interpreted the same; as "THESE weapons will be upgradeable" like they just did in the previous Bjora Marches collection.

    Here's a suggestion. How about if you got your inscription and the Stormcaller core back guaranteed from salvaging the base Stormcaller weapon? That way it isn't a total loss, but there is still a (minor) loss. That doesn't affect the extreme cost for the T2s, but it does mitigate it slightly.