Are we now putting precursors in lootboxes Anet? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Are we now putting precursors in lootboxes Anet?

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  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭✭

    @kratan.4619 said:

    @Kurrilino.2706 said:

    You are right, that's no the issue. The issue is they expose children to gambling addictions
    And yes, they have to make money............. what about an expansion every 6 month?

    Parents need to be the ones who are monitoring what their children are doing. They need to be the ones to teach their children about what is right or wrong. That is not Anet's job. I love the ability to buy keys and open chests and it should not be impeded by bad parenting.

    I'm genuinely curious. What do you exactly like about opening chests? Is it the 5 seconds of waiting to see what random item you get?

  • Kurrilino.2706Kurrilino.2706 Member ✭✭✭

    @kratan.4619 said:>
    Parents need to be the ones who are monitoring what their children are doing. They need to be the ones to teach their children about what is right or wrong. That is not Anet's job. I love the ability to buy keys and open chests and it should not be impeded by bad parenting.

    I assume you would argue the same if drugs would be the topic?
    We all know that parents can't be everywhere and that those shady individuals try to create a demand.
    And this is where i compare Anet with shady people. You need a precursor to enter the end game content of crafting a legendary.
    Parents have no influence here

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    @zealex.9410

    I'm pretty sure you are mixing up the definition of "p2w" here, unless you can explain, in detail, exactly what a player "wins" over another player by having a precursor. Also, it's probably in there because https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/100933/legendary-equipment-and-templates ... and players will gobble up pres and legendaries fast when it hits... Then you all will complain about pre and legendary scarcity and way high prices on the TP... Then you'll blame Anet for not doing something to prevent, or lessen, that.

  • yoni.7015yoni.7015 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kurrilino.2706 said:

    @kratan.4619 said:>
    Parents need to be the ones who are monitoring what their children are doing. They need to be the ones to teach their children about what is right or wrong. That is not Anet's job. I love the ability to buy keys and open chests and it should not be impeded by bad parenting.

    I assume you would argue the same if drugs would be the topic?
    We all know that parents can't be everywhere and that those shady individuals try to create a demand.
    And this is where i compare Anet with shady people. You need a precursor to enter the end game content of crafting a legendary.
    Parents have no influence here

    Now you compare Anet with drug dealers? Wow that’s hilarious.
    You can buy precursors at the TP, they are not really expensive anymore.

  • Phazon.3975Phazon.3975 Member ✭✭

    The ingame description of the Gnashblade Bag doesn’t specify that you have a chance of getting precursors so unless a player finds out it’s just a “Cool. Free exotic weapon.” for players who have keys and wouldn’t mind a bonus exotic item. If it did, it would be much more of a hook to gamble for them. But it isn’t really pay to win. It’s a skin with no real gameplay benefit.

    I mean I’m not sure tbh if we’re boiling it down to skins and fashion. Players are spending so much money in this game for looks that it’s kinda worrisome. That includes me back then until I realized how much focus was being put into the gemstore. New items are being pumped more and more into the gemstore and the quality of the stuff is becoming questionable (looking at the last few mount skins). And when they started including shiny BLC skin exclusives, that ain’t P2W but that’s still lootbox to the max and that’s got to go.

    And how often people throw around the “x isn’t that bad, just spend x dollars” makes me kinda sad. For a free to play game, the money word gets thrown around a lot. I miss when the gemstore in this game was something in the background and not something that’s flashing in my face whenever something new comes out. Which is like every week.

    Whew sorry for all the extra but I needed to vent. xD

    TLDR; The Gnashblade bag isn’t p2w. It’s probably one of the weakest BLC freebies imo. The festive ones with 5g trophies are probably better even. And as long as people don’t know there’s a chance for precursors, there’s no gambling encouraged.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's really not that difficult to find out precursors are included. All you need to do is preview the Black Lion Chest, preview the exotic weapon bag and scroll down the list to see them. I suppose it's possible some new players don't know about previewing items to find the contents, but I wouldn't say the information is hidden or difficult to get.

    @Phazon.3975 said:
    And how often people throw around the “x isn’t that bad, just spend x dollars” makes me kinda sad. For a free to play game, the money word gets thrown around a lot. I miss when the gemstore in this game was something in the background and not something that’s flashing in my face whenever something new comes out. Which is like every week.

    If you're referring to the people in this topic saying it's possible to buy precursors with real money I don't think anyone said it's a good idea, just that it's possible. The point is simply that if someone considers the ability to buy precursors for real money to be pay-to-win then this game has been pay-to-win since the start and at this point it's far too late to complain about it. (I suspect the underlying assumption is that since it's been in the game since day 1 anyone who thought it was pay-to-win and was opposed to playing a game like that would have already quit, so if you're still playing GW2 the logical assumption is you're ok with the ability to buy precursors.)

    I have to admit I'm not sure how I feel about it. In theory I'd prefer it if all precursors and legendaries were account bound on acquire, which would have required a non-RNG way to obtain precursors to exist from the start (before HoT they were only available as random drops so trading was pretty essential). On the other hand I have sold a legendary, and for all I know it went to someone who got the gold by converting gems, so I'm clearly not opposed to the system enough to refuse to participate. I'd never buy a legendary because I think it's a waste of money I can find far better uses for, and because I enjoy the process of making them, but if someone else wants to waste their money on it I'm clearly willing to facilitate that.

    @Phazon.3975 said:
    I mean I’m not sure tbh if we’re boiling it down to skins and fashion. Players are spending so much money in this game for looks that it’s kinda worrisome. That includes me back then until I realized how much focus was being put into the gemstore. New items are being pumped more and more into the gemstore and the quality of the stuff is becoming questionable (looking at the last few mount skins). And when they started including shiny BLC skin exclusives, that ain’t P2W but that’s still lootbox to the max and that’s got to go.

    I don't think it's true that more and more stuff is going into the gem store. Just during Icebrood Saga we've gotten several new weapon and armour sets available in-game, while genuinely new items in the gem store are relatively rare. They do a good job of recycling stuff so it seems like the gem store is constantly being updated but the majority of it is old skins which were taken away for a while so they could make a fuss of them coming back. If anything Anet adding the blue background to the icon when there's a genuinely new item in the gem store has made me realise how rare that is (and it's often just 1 thing) compared to old stuff being recycled.

    As for how much players spend, since it is purely cosmetic I think that's up to them. If anyone feels like they're under pressure to buy and use the latest gem store skins I agree that would be a problem and they probably shouldn't be playing this game, but even with the emphasis placed on cosmetics in GW2 I don't think it's comparable to pay-to-win games where you have to spend money to keep up with everyone else. If someone isn't comfortable with how much they're spending they can stop or reduce the amount and it won't affect their ability to play the game. Cosmetics are highly subjective and many of my favourite outfits have been made entirely with in-game skins. Even when my main character is wearing a "Champion of Aurene" themed outfit I still didn't buy the Aurene helm they put in the gem store, which in theory is perfect, because the Icelord's Diadem I was already using is just as good (I actually prefer it, because it's not as chunky). I find it's the same with a lot of gem store skins.

    For me how much I spend on the gem store has varied a lot over time but I think overall it's gone down. One big change is they stopped putting new mini pets in the store on a regular basis, that was my main expense for this game in the first few years. For a while I was buying quite a few mount skins, although not as many as I would have if they hadn't messed around with packs and licences - I didn't buy any until the branded pack came out and didn't get any of the licence ones until they started doing select licences so I could buy just the skins I wanted. Even then I wait until they're on sale because I won't spend more than 800 gems for a mount skin. But now I'm also hitting a saturation point with them where any new skins I like would just be a replacement for one I've already got and I'm still happy with...so why bother buying the new one?

    I have absolutely no doubt there are players who spend far more than me on a regular basis, but I assume it's their choice to do that. I've never felt pressured to buy cosmetics from the gem store (or convenience items for that matter) which is why I'm ok with the monetisation system in this game. It's a fine and sometimes unclear line between acceptable and unacceptable but for me GW2 has almost always managed to keep on the right side of it.

    I think giving exotics directly for black lion keys, and especially the chance at precursors, is a step in the wrong direction, but as long as it's as far as the idea goes I'm willing to accept it. I won't be participating, even using my free black lion keys, but I'm not going to stop playing as a result, which is really the only option we have if we're not happy with how the game is being run.

    Danielle Aurorel, Desolation EU. Mini Collector

    "You can run like a river, Till you end up in the sea
    And you run till night is black, And keep on going in your dreams
    And you know all the long while, It's the journey that you seek
    It's the miles of moving forward, With the wind beneath your wings"

  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭✭

    72 Chests and no precursors...

  • @Josiah.2967 said:
    72 Chests and no precursors...

    that pay to win money, man ;)

  • ShadowCatz.8437ShadowCatz.8437 Member ✭✭✭

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    72 Chests and no precursors...

    Did you get some items that you could sell for Gold?

  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    @ShadowCatz.8437 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    72 Chests and no precursors...

    Did you get some items that you could sell for Gold?

    Not really. They were mostly kitten epics that were better to salvage. I would say it averages to 50 silver right now. I would rate this as one of the worst guarantees.

  • ShadowCatz.8437ShadowCatz.8437 Member ✭✭✭

    @Josiah.2967 said:

    @ShadowCatz.8437 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    72 Chests and no precursors...

    Did you get some items that you could sell for Gold?

    Not really. They were mostly kitten epics that were better to salvage. I would say it averages to 50 silver right now.

    Too bad...well you might be lucky with your salvage and can sell at least some more valuable mats.

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭

    You really think players bought keys for an exotic low possibility of a precourser and not the back skin or mount skin. A 60s exotic isn't going to make me go I better buy 50 keys

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    Is it different from buying Gems to exchange for Gold to buy exotics to throw in the Mystic Forge?
    Is having a Precursor or a Legendary winning the game?

    For some ppl gettong a fully decked ou character is "winning the game" and the more external mechanics that interact with your wallet are included the more it can be considered p2w.

    Plus it doubles down on gambling which is just shameful.

    Anything can be considered P2W if the person is willing to twist logic to the breaking point.

    And nothing will for ppl that are willing to do the same.

    Sadly p2w or not its clear anet is getting more and more bold on how much the cashshop affects gameplay.

  • Batel.9206Batel.9206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sadly p2w or not its clear anet is getting more and more bold on how much the cashshop affects gameplay.

    Affects gameplay? This is a first-generation precursor weapon - exotic. The same tier of weapon that you can get lying randomly around the world by playing the game (like finding it in a jumping puzzle reward chest, as a daily log-in reward, boss chests, etc.), by buying it off the trading post, or crafting it. There's no difference between a precursor and a random exotic weapon aside from the skin. Cosmetic looks affect gameplay now...? (And no, "fashion wars" is not a gameplay issue.)

    Bottom line, I don't see how this is a problem.

    and the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon
    little boy blue and the man in the moon
    when you comin' home, dad?

  • @zealex.9410 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    Is it different from buying Gems to exchange for Gold to buy exotics to throw in the Mystic Forge?
    Is having a Precursor or a Legendary winning the game?

    For some ppl gettong a fully decked ou character is "winning the game" and the more external mechanics that interact with your wallet are included the more it can be considered p2w.

    Plus it doubles down on gambling which is just shameful.

    Anything can be considered P2W if the person is willing to twist logic to the breaking point.

    And nothing will for ppl that are willing to do the same.

    Sadly p2w or not its clear anet is getting more and more bold on how much the cashshop affects gameplay.

    It is wise not to admit to subjectivity when you're presenting your own arguments. You've just given anyone who wants to disagree with you everything they'd need to dismiss you outright with no further thought on the matter.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    Is it different from buying Gems to exchange for Gold to buy exotics to throw in the Mystic Forge?
    Is having a Precursor or a Legendary winning the game?

    For some ppl gettong a fully decked ou character is "winning the game" and the more external mechanics that interact with your wallet are included the more it can be considered p2w.

    Plus it doubles down on gambling which is just shameful.

    Anything can be considered P2W if the person is willing to twist logic to the breaking point.

    And nothing will for ppl that are willing to do the same.

    Sadly p2w or not its clear anet is getting more and more bold on how much the cashshop affects gameplay.

    Exotic weapons, not even BiS, are considered P2W only by those choosing to misrepresent the facts in order to push an agenda.

  • I opened close to 70 chests since the release of the new wings (finally got them on the very last chest) and I got a dusk in the process. I already have twilight so I gave it to a friend. It was a nice surprise, but given the amount of chests I opened I feel the drop rate is fairly low and I don't see this method adding too many extra copies to the point that the item would be devalued.

    That being said, this behavior is something I hope they don't repeat in the future. BLC should be for cosmetics and utility items only. This goes against that principle and creates a slippery slope for the future because now there is precedent and people will point to this example and go "well they did it before" as justification for doing it again.

    Please don't do this again, Anet.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    Is it different from buying Gems to exchange for Gold to buy exotics to throw in the Mystic Forge?
    Is having a Precursor or a Legendary winning the game?

    For some ppl gettong a fully decked ou character is "winning the game" and the more external mechanics that interact with your wallet are included the more it can be considered p2w.

    Plus it doubles down on gambling which is just shameful.

    Anything can be considered P2W if the person is willing to twist logic to the breaking point.

    And nothing will for ppl that are willing to do the same.

    Sadly p2w or not its clear anet is getting more and more bold on how much the cashshop affects gameplay.

    Exotic weapons, not even BiS, are considered P2W only by those choosing to misrepresent the facts in order to push an agenda.

    They are a componment to make bis weapons, even if there are alternative and even better ones the move to have the cash shop further interact with levendaries initself is bad.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 3, 2020

    @zealex.9410 said:
    They are a componment to make bis weapons, even if there are alternative and even better ones the move to have the cash shop further interact with levendaries initself is bad.

    Seriously, if you are going to complain about bad practices in gemshop, that one case is really insignificant compared to all the other stuff that is happening there.

    A gemshop introducing a secondary option to get something that you can obtain in game is only a serious problem if the store option is better. In this case it's not only worse, but it is worse to a massive degree.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • NorthernRedStar.3054NorthernRedStar.3054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Silly move, but ultimate doesn't change a lot apart from in-game economy.

    It's a thin line they're balancing on; retaining accessibility while promoting progression through items like legendaries. The concept of this doesn't exactly bode well for the aforementioned.

    Then again, I've always been of the stance that we need more strictly achievement -based skins, items and gear to show off.

  • Friday.7864Friday.7864 Member ✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    Is it different from buying Gems to exchange for Gold to buy exotics to throw in the Mystic Forge?
    Is having a Precursor or a Legendary winning the game?

    For some ppl gettong a fully decked ou character is "winning the game" and the more external mechanics that interact with your wallet are included the more it can be considered p2w.

    Plus it doubles down on gambling which is just shameful.

    It doesn't matter what some people consider is winning the game.
    If it doesn't give you a competitive advantage (aka better stats in exchange for money) it's not p2w, period.