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The story ruins Jormag rising(spoilers)

Tazer.2157Tazer.2157 Member ✭✭✭

Once again not surprisingly the story is the weakest element in the episode and quite frankly spoils the entire episode. So well done. After you retconned and antagonized Smodur, you’ve killed him off in a similar manner. Also after building up Bangar, this bad kitten of a Charr who has always been ahead of you, who has rallied troops to his side, who convinced Ryland to attack Almorra, you’ve collared him and put him in a cage. Just why? Please just go ahead and kill Bangar off because he clearly doesn’t not belong in this sad excuse for a story. Let him and Smodur be erased from memory and have a peaceful afterlife far away from this dreadful story. To Smodur and Bangar, two bad kitten Charr who have been badly written. May you both Rest In Peace.

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Comments

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The Meta is equally bad in my opinions.
    The visuals of this half map were to only decent part for me - and only the visuals.

    Anet, remove the snipers and damaging floor already.

  • Okami Amaterasu.9237Okami Amaterasu.9237 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2020

    Once the cage is broken/unlocked we'll hear more from Bangar personally. Jormag might even let Bangar speak freely for a little while, but most likely he'll end up being its vessel for smooth-talk persuading us in our ear or to Aurene. For now, corrupted Icebrood Ryland has become the more pressing antagonist short of Jormag itself waking up again.

    Also, that was a befitting way to give consequences to Smodur's actions. He got what was coming to him from his murder in the previous episode. That ruthless pride and ego backfired on him, just as Bangar's has for now.

    I'm looking forward to seeing more in the next episode or vision of the past. Not sure why a lot of people come here just to complain all the time.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2020

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Smoldur got treated so badly this season, no respect for his character and all to kill him in one episode and even then the npcs act like nothing happened almost immediately.

    No one had TIME to act like anything happened. Everyone was neck deep in a battle to stop Bangar from awakening an Elder Dragon, a being with the power to destroy all life on the planet. They couldn't stop, and cry about, or give him a funeral, because doing so would let Bangar win.

    Its really no different from Eir's death in HoT, she died in HoT, but we didn't get a "everyone is upset about it" story beat until the beginning of LWS3, because everyone was neck deep in trying to stop Mordremoth from killing everything.

    I wouldn't be surprised if we get some sort of Smodur funeral bit in whatever "Visions of the Past" type release comes out in two months.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Smoldur got treated so badly this season, no respect for his character and all to kill him in one episode and even then the npcs act like nothing happened almost immediately.

    No one had TIME to act like anything happened. Everyone was neck deep in a battle to stop Bangar from awakening an Elder Dragon, a being with the power to destroy all life on the planet. They couldn't stop, and cry about, or give him a funeral, because doing so would let Bangar win.

    Its really no different from Eir's death in HoT, she died in HoT, but we didn't get a "everyone is upset about it" story beat until the beginning of LWS3, because everyone was neck deep in trying to stop Mordremoth from killing everything.

    I wouldn't be surprised if we get some sort of Smodur funeral bit in whatever "Visions of the Past" type release comes out in two months.

    Eirs death atbleast had a cutscene dedicated to it to give it some weight.

    Smoldur's death is literally the meme from reddit and i think it could be treated better.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Eirs death atbleast had a cutscene dedicated to it to give it some weight.

    Smoldur's death is literally the meme from reddit and i think it could be treated better.

    Eir's death cutscene also came at the end of a big chase scene with a giant monster, and was used to give even more impact to the events.

    Smodur's death was meant to be quick, and unexpected. Having some big long cutscene where we see Ryland get into position, and take the shot, would defeat the purpose since everyone would know it was going to happen before it did.

    different situations require different methods of execution.

  • Tazer.2157Tazer.2157 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Except that Bangar has outsmarted the commander at every move.

    No he didn't. Bangar never outsmarted us, as we were never directly pitted against some plot of his. Bangar outsmarted the other Imperators, and Crecia, but thats something else entirely. In fact, the Commander has typically been the one to uncover Bangar's plans, when everyone else was still in the dark. Bangar just got away with it because he was already in the process of implementing said plan, as the Commander was never in a position to know about any plan until Bangar was already implementing it.. That's not outsmarting The Commander, thats just the Commander not being an all knowing god.

    Oh really? How about Bangar tricking us and then using Ryland to take away the bow from Bram? How about Bangar almost killing us. How about Bangar using Ryland to kitten Rytlock off. They entire season revolved around making Bangar the bad guy. They had to make him a big deal otherwise having a weak antagonist wouldn’t be fitting for the plot would it.

    Bangar was the one the legions looked up to. Many Charr followed him through thick and thin.

    Generally, the Legions looked up to their own Imperator. Many of the people following Bangar didn't look up to him, they just agreed to his argument that the Charr were being treated by Aurene, and needed a way to even the odds. If the Charr looked up to anyone it was Ryland, who has been constantly touted as the one all the Charr look up to, hence why Bangar got Ryland as his right hand man.

    That is your opinion. Most of blood legion followed Bangar and agreed with his views. They even covered themselves in Jormags blood and that it an indication of how far their loyalty went. The Charr looked up to Ryland? Ryland wasn’t even responsible for any of this. If Bangar wasn’t present, we would not even have got this episode. How on earth can you tell me that the Charr looked to to Ryland when it was Bangar’s plan and orders they were following. Even if you tell me the Charr looked up to Ryland, that just makes Bangar a letter more cunning leader.

    Jormag tells Ryland that he’s got elements of his mom and dad and that is one of the reasons for making him champion. Except that is complete nonsense because Bangar outsmarted both Rytlock and Crecia. At the beginning Bangar even has Crecia wrapped around his finger. So unless Jormag is looking for a weakling, we have a conflict from what was shown in earlier episodes.

    Except Bangar was being manipulated by Jormag from the get go. Hence the corrupted idol in Bangar's office, and the boneskinner tracks outside Bangar's office. Bangar was just being used by Jormag. It was never so much Bangar's plan as it was Jormag's. Not to mention your argument doesn't make much sense. Bangar was able to manipulate Rytlock and Crecia individually, but that doesn't mean hes better then a person who has both of those character's traits.

    So if Ryland was as powerful as you say why didn’t Jormag use him or influence him instead? Ryland being the one the Charr look up to clearly would be competent to give Jormag an army.

    Ryland was clearly shown to be weaker and compliant to Bangar even sparring with Almorra and having no problems even after Bangar killed her. All now all of a sudden he goes against Bangar?

    Now this is just completely false. Bangar was shown to be weaker then Ryland, as Almorra kicked Bangar's kitten, and needed Ryland to beat Almorra for him. And Ryland totally had problem with Bangar killing Almorra, he even makes a big deal about it during the mission. Likewise, he clearly disagreed with Bangar's actions afterwards as he spent the time to bury Almorra, whereas Bangar was just going to leave her there to rot. Not to mention there is several dialogs in southern Drizzlewood with Charr talking about Ryland likely using Bangar for his own ends. Ryland going against Bangar was telegraphed like 4 months ago, and people have been speculating it would happen since.

    Again in the instance we see Bangar giving Ryland orders to open this, do that and Ryland complies. Not a single word of opposition. The Almorra fight has to do with the gameplay more than the plot. They wanted the player to be the one that spars with Almorra a boss fight. Ryland might have buried Almorra but you don’t see him ever take his stand against Bangar. Bangar killed Almorra in front of him and what did Ryland do? Absolutely nothing. He just looked and later buried her. He even says that he is a soldier and a good soldier follows orders. You must remember that Bangar was Rylands mentor. He looks up to Bangar as he didn’t have anyone else to be inspired by. He didn’t have any conflict with Bangar at all. And why would there be any reason for conflict. Why would Ryland have a conflict with Bangar. Was any reason given? Were there disagreements? Give me a reason if you are going to defend this plot.

    Also to add more pain to injury they put Bangar in the eye of the north and there is also an achievement where you need to visit him for 10 days. No where has anything like this been done. A Charr chained, unable to talk, caged and humiliated for 10 days and on display for all to see. I wouldn’t wish that to my worst enemy. Even Garrosh in world of Warcraft got a better ending than this.

    A. Its actually not daily based, its seemingly weekly based. 8 weeks, which is two months, the timespan between major content releases. Also, hes able to speak, which is, you know, the point of the achievement, to talk to him.
    B. We see Charr in chains as prisoners in the Black Citadel and in some core area maps.
    C. Garrosh got a single lighting bolt to the face after a cheese, steriotypical "fight" cinematic. Bangar gets to stay around as a character, and gets to use his connection to Jormag to reveal interesting revelations about the beat. This is a far better ending then Garosh got, because Bangar is still around, and useful, while garrosh is a another dead villain of the week that no one cares about anymore.

    Bangar is still around? Where I don’t hear him, I don’t even see him. All I see is a husk. Death is better than living as a husk. Garrosh got the fight and even if it was badly done it is still better than what gw2 has done to Bangar. At least in wow everything made sense. Garrosh was recognized for his strength and his legacy in wow is still one of strength. What is Bangars legacy? A bonded Charr?

    Honestly, it just seems like you haven't payed attention to anything thats been happening, because everything you said is wrong.

    You can keep defending this bad story. Even if you go to the forums, you will see at the posts discussing Bangar as the antagonist. Not one even mentions Ryland because the story gave no indication that Ryland was ambitious. Ryland to many was an afterthought, a soldier following orders. Now all of a sudden out of nowhere he spars with Bangar when there has been no build up of tensions between the two of them at all? Come on I don’t know how you buy that. It’s cheap and it’s insulting.

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm fine with Ryland killing Smodur, that charr had it coming after killing Cinder and I think its interesting the make Bangar the new Voice ( we will see how that plays out) but what I don't fully get is Ryland being turned into the champion so willingly? They just need to explain it a bit more so that I'm confidant about what exactly is going on. NOT huge sweeping mounds of expositions but please a few sentences- what I have to assume happened is the mental anguish of him becoming a fresh new gladia, his parents betraying him, watching his potential love mate being killed in front of him and Bangar's unstable leadership drove him to the arms of Jormag. That's perfectly fine. What not fine is me kind of sort of maybe assuming that's what's happening from all the action because the story isn't being presented clear enough.

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Eirs death atbleast had a cutscene dedicated to it to give it some weight.

    Smoldur's death is literally the meme from reddit and i think it could be treated better.

    Eir's death cutscene also came at the end of a big chase scene with a giant monster, and was used to give even more impact to the events.

    Smodur's death was meant to be quick, and unexpected. Having some big long cutscene where we see Ryland get into position, and take the shot, would defeat the purpose since everyone would know it was going to happen before it did.

    different situations require different methods of execution.

    I liked the set up. It looked like it was going to be another moment where you gather facts and then decide on one of two options and the story diverges and then SPLAT!!! NOPE!!! lol unexpected.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    The whole thing with Rytlock needing Crecia to melt the ice was cringe. Then we have Crecia always telling Rytlock what to do and how to behave. We have them making the female Charr the more level headed leaders. Malice and Crecia and now another female Charr as the the leader of Iron. We have the introduction of Ember, another female Charr. The males like Smodur are dead, Bangar chained, Rytlock for lack of a better word creciasplained, Ryland corrupted. Even Efram has been subdued by the female leaders as Smodur tells him in the last episode that he has lost his backbone.

    Its cringe that Elder Dragon ice requires more powerful fire magic to melt? Its wrong that people know that Rytlock has always acted rather bluntly?

    As for Crecia and Maclie, both of them have been shown to have flaws. Malice's attempts to prepare against Bangar have failed(hence Smodur getting killed), andCrecia's indecisiveness between wanting to save her son, and protect the Charr, is why negotiations between Ryland and the Legions broke down. Lets not forget the main "badguy"is Jormag, who is generally referred to as female now. Yeah man, its femenist to have a female be the main villain, and to show that female characters are just as flawed as the male ones.

    I swear, some people are hellbent in trying to find conspiracies where there are none.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭

    @borgs.6103 said:
    The whole thing is cringe, but the worst of it all was what they did to Smodur. He's the only one behaving like Charr and people call him an kitten.
    Remember, people - Charr have a militaristic culture based on Roman and Mongol societies. Heck, they treat Gladium as 2nd-class citizens, ditch their elderly and have little to no respect for the injured who can't serve. They're all a-holes from an outsider's point of view.

    And I thought it couldn't get anymore lore-breaking than that Lazarus is Balthazar season where Charr Pact Commanders have to take the Shining Blade oath.
    What's next? Sylvari reproducing? Asura having a pantheon of gods?

    when youre trying to set up an alliance with different races/cultures it would be smart to at least PRETEND to be a nice guy.
    this is either 100% kitten or 100% moron, certainly not a leader to follow

  • Tazer.2157Tazer.2157 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    The whole thing with Rytlock needing Crecia to melt the ice was cringe. Then we have Crecia always telling Rytlock what to do and how to behave. We have them making the female Charr the more level headed leaders. Malice and Crecia and now another female Charr as the the leader of Iron. We have the introduction of Ember, another female Charr. The males like Smodur are dead, Bangar chained, Rytlock for lack of a better word creciasplained, Ryland corrupted. Even Efram has been subdued by the female leaders as Smodur tells him in the last episode that he has lost his backbone.

    Its cringe that Elder Dragon ice requires more powerful fire magic to melt? Its wrong that people know that Rytlock has always acted rather bluntly?

    As for Crecia and Maclie, both of them have been shown to have flaws. Malice's attempts to prepare against Bangar have failed(hence Smodur getting killed), andCrecia's indecisiveness between wanting to save her son, and protect the Charr, is why negotiations between Ryland and the Legions broke down. Lets not forget the main "badguy"is Jormag, who is generally referred to as female now. Yeah man, its femenist to have a female be the main villain, and to show that female characters are just as flawed as the male ones.

    I swear, some people are hellbent in trying to find conspiracies where there are none.

    Yes it is cringe because Crecia is the one who tells Rytlock the time to use his own weapon. Give me a break! The story makes Rytlock seem like an incompetent fool. Crecia should stop creciasplaining. She’s the worst character ever created in game.

    Smodur was ridiculously antagonized. The commander has lines that disagree with Smodur. The commander never disagrees with either Malice or Crecia.

    If Jormag is a female, then this is truly a story of a strong female character dominating males or two males in this case. Thank you for proving my point.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Yes it is cringe because Crecia is the one who tells Rytlock the time to use his own weapon. Give me a break! The story makes Rytlock seem like an incompetent fool. Crecia should stop creciasplaining. She’s the worst character ever created in game.

    I can only imagine how you can even begin to see things in this manner.

  • Funky.4861Funky.4861 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Yes it is cringe because Crecia is the one who tells Rytlock the time to use his own weapon. Give me a break! The story makes Rytlock seem like an incompetent fool. Crecia should stop creciasplaining. She’s the worst character ever created in game.

    I can only imagine how you can even begin to see things in this manner.

    It's really obvious that Rytlock has taken the beta role in their relationship; Crecia tells him what to do all the time- have you done the Grothmar Valley strike mission? There's dialogue in it where Crecia is completely controlling. This seems at odds to me with Charr culture. If you open your mind a bit, you'll see that we are surrounded by weak male characters and that's sad, because it means the female characters can't be strong in their own roles; they take over the male role too.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Once again not surprisingly the story is the weakest element in the episode and quite frankly spoils the entire episode. So well done. After you retconned and antagonized Smodur, you’ve killed him off in a similar manner. Also after building up Bangar, this bad kitten of a Charr who has always been ahead of you, who has rallied troops to his side, who convinced Ryland to attack Almorra, you’ve collared him and put him in a cage. Just why? Please just go ahead and kill Bangar off because he clearly doesn’t not belong in this sad excuse for a story. Let him and Smodur be erased from memory and have a peaceful afterlife far away from this dreadful story. To Smodur and Bangar, two bad kitten Charr who have been badly written. May you both Rest In Peace.

    lol...

    The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown.

    H. P. Lovecraft

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Funky.4861 said:
    The only female villain i can recall was Faolain, and i really liked her both before and after her turning.

    You don't recall Scarlet?

  • Sarie.1630Sarie.1630 Member ✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    I don't have a problem with the way Smodur died. Ryland had a score to settle and he didn't muck about, he didn't monologue just long enough until we could rescue Smodur, he just went straight for him as payback and I think echoes how brutal the Charr are supposed to be. I take slight issue in the way Ryland just seemed to be able to teleport straight into the cave with his backup but eh, after Scarlet's god-like abilities, that's nothing.

    I have problems with this release like everyone but when it comes to Smodur specifically, I'm sorry to see him go, but appreciate the way it was done. I wonder if it's all gearing up to Efram being appointed as Khan-Ur. Whenever there's leading to be done, it's invariably Efram up-front.

  • Sir Alric.5078Sir Alric.5078 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    @Sarie.1630 said:

    I wonder if it's all gearing up to Efram being appointed as Khan-Ur. Whenever there's leading to be done, it's invariably Efram up-front.

    Bangar is a puppet on display, Ryland is now a Champion of Jormag, Smodur is dead, Efram seems like a good guy but he leads the Flame legion which was the enemy until not too long ago, so i don't think they will choose him. Plus he's now the only dude among an all female leadership. I get the feeling that they are going to pick Crecia for the job, but we shall see.

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Funky.4861 said:
    The only female villain i can recall was Faolain, and i really liked her both before and after her turning.

    You don't recall Scarlet?

    I try not to. There was a LOT of vodka involved...

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sir Alric.5078 said:

    @Sarie.1630 said:

    I wonder if it's all gearing up to Efram being appointed as Khan-Ur. Whenever there's leading to be done, it's invariably Efram up-front.

    Bangar is a puppet on display, Ryland is now a Champion of Jormag, Smodur is dead, Efram seems like a good guy but he leads the Flame legion which was the enemy until not too long ago, so i don't think they will choose him. Plus he's now the only dude among an all female leadership. I get the feeling that they are going to pick Crecia for the job, but we shall see.

    Sometime ago the devs said they want to add Season 1 type events to this saga, which if you recall in season had the community voting for who will be the next captain on the LA council.

    I’m wondering if the community will decide who will be the next Khan Ur.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Sir Alric.5078 said:

    @Sarie.1630 said:

    I wonder if it's all gearing up to Efram being appointed as Khan-Ur. Whenever there's leading to be done, it's invariably Efram up-front.

    Bangar is a puppet on display, Ryland is now a Champion of Jormag, Smodur is dead, Efram seems like a good guy but he leads the Flame legion which was the enemy until not too long ago, so i don't think they will choose him. Plus he's now the only dude among an all female leadership. I get the feeling that they are going to pick Crecia for the job, but we shall see.

    Sometime ago the devs said they want to add Season 1 type events to this saga, which if you recall in season had the community voting for who will be the next captain on the LA council.

    And then Kiel won anyway.
    I distinctly remember the vast majority in the chats being in favour of Gnashblade though.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Sir Alric.5078 said:

    @Sarie.1630 said:

    I wonder if it's all gearing up to Efram being appointed as Khan-Ur. Whenever there's leading to be done, it's invariably Efram up-front.

    Bangar is a puppet on display, Ryland is now a Champion of Jormag, Smodur is dead, Efram seems like a good guy but he leads the Flame legion which was the enemy until not too long ago, so i don't think they will choose him. Plus he's now the only dude among an all female leadership. I get the feeling that they are going to pick Crecia for the job, but we shall see.

    Sometime ago the devs said they want to add Season 1 type events to this saga, which if you recall in season had the community voting for who will be the next captain on the LA council.

    And then Kiel won anyway.
    I distinctly remember the vast majority in the chats being in favour of Gnashblade though.

    We might have something similar in the saga for an epilogue episode

  • Sheader.6827Sheader.6827 Member ✭✭✭

    Smodur was amazing back in LWS 2. Now he was just a kitten. I hoped Bangar would become some sort of reluctant anti-hero rather than antagonist. Also why does everyone want to kill Jormag?? Why make it an antagonist at all? For the Six's sake its the most exciting, mysterious and baffling of all EDs so far. It didn't kill us, it doesn't want us dead and it has a seemingly non-apocalyptic goal in mind. Jormag might just be the most interesting character in all of Icebrood Saga but the community just keeps retconing the story potential just because "oh its another ED we gotta punch it harder till it dies".

    If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere well it were done quickly. That but this blow might be the be-all and the end-all—here.
    Macbeth Act 1, scene 7

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    @Sheader.6827 said:
    Smodur was amazing back in LWS 2. Now he was just a kitten. I hoped Bangar would become some sort of reluctant anti-hero rather than antagonist. Also why does everyone want to kill Jormag?? Why make it an antagonist at all? For the Six's sake its the most exciting, mysterious and baffling of all EDs so far. It didn't kill us, it doesn't want us dead and it has a seemingly non-apocalyptic goal in mind. Jormag might just be the most interesting character in all of Icebrood Saga but the community just keeps retconing the story potential just because "oh its another ED we gotta punch it harder till it dies".

    Smodur didn't do anything in LWS2 to be "amazing" in any way. His entire plotline was "get rid of the ghosts and ill go join this summit" and "well, you didn't get rid of all the ghosts, but you got rid of some of them so ehh I'll go"

    Also, Jormag may not want us dead, but that doesn't make it good. As its fond of saying "ice forties, Ice protects" It very likely wants to save the world... by turning it into a giant ball of ice frozen in time, with everything one of its minions. Not dissimilar to Zhaitan, whose minions constantly talked about how it wanted to end the pain and loss of death, by turning everyone into risen so everyone is undead forever. Jormag is just better at BSing then the other dragons were.

    Besides, Jormag is already a known liar. promising to not attack the Norn if Asgeir left, only to constantly send its minions to attack the Norn anyways.

  • Sheader.6827Sheader.6827 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Sheader.6827 said:
    Smodur was amazing back in LWS 2. Now he was just a kitten. I hoped Bangar would become some sort of reluctant anti-hero rather than antagonist. Also why does everyone want to kill Jormag?? Why make it an antagonist at all? For the Six's sake its the most exciting, mysterious and baffling of all EDs so far. It didn't kill us, it doesn't want us dead and it has a seemingly non-apocalyptic goal in mind. Jormag might just be the most interesting character in all of Icebrood Saga but the community just keeps retconing the story potential just because "oh its another ED we gotta punch it harder till it dies".

    Smodur didn't do anything in LWS2 to be "amazing" in any way. His entire plotline was "get rid of the ghosts and ill go join this summit" and "well, you didn't get rid of all the ghosts, but you got rid of some of them so ehh I'll go"

    Also, Jormag may not want us dead, but that doesn't make it good. As its fond of saying "ice forties, Ice protects" It very likely wants to save the world... by turning it into a giant ball of ice frozen in time, with everything one of its minions. Not dissimilar to Zhaitan, whose minions constantly talked about how it wanted to end the pain and loss of death, by turning everyone into risen so everyone is undead forever. Jormag is just better at BSing then the other dragons were.

    Besides, Jormag is already a known liar. promising to not attack the Norn if Asgeir left, only to constantly send its minions to attack the Norn anyways.

    Smodur was level-headed in the face of Mordremoth literally conjuring gigantic vines in the middle of Ascalon. Now he basically lost his cool because of a way smaller threat.

    Jormag shouldn't be good, but that shouldn't make it bad either. In our eyes as small mortals, yes, ice kitten and and Tyria becoming a big icy ball is terrifying. What if that isn't its goal? Jormag could have that in mind or a completely different mindset to preserve the balance of the world.

    Jormag didn't lie. It promised not to destroy the Norn. Its minions might just be there to keep testing them so that they fight for the reason it let them live.

    If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere well it were done quickly. That but this blow might be the be-all and the end-all—here.
    Macbeth Act 1, scene 7

  • Rauderi.8706Rauderi.8706 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Psh, Jormag was "ruined" the moment they pronounced him as "JEOR-mag".

    Many alts! Handle it!

    "A condescending answer might as well not be an answer at all."
    -Eloc Freidon.5692

  • Tazer.2157Tazer.2157 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hypnowulf.7403 said:
    So... let me sum up.

    • Bangar getting muted by Jormag is a woman dominating a man (Jormag is nonbinary);
    • Ryland joining Jormag as their champion is a woman dominating a man (Jormag is nonbinary);
    • Rytlock deferring to Crecia over anything is a woman dominating a man and "at odds with charr culture;"
    • Crecia being an intelligent, skilled tactician and tribune who has worthwhile things to say is "creciasplaining."

    This community has some interesting problems. I partly hope that Jormag is good just to wind the lot of you up even more.

    I would comment on this, but I’ll get a warning again. So I’m going to stay out of it. Instead I want to refocus on the retconning of characters done in this episode and the previous episode. The thing is though, people always support and get behind a good story and good characters. All we want is that and gw2 is capable of delivering good stories and characters. We have seen it in the zaithan arc, in hot and pof. We had major female characters and no one had any problems with them. Eir is still my favorite character in game and I like Kas too. So, no the community does not have any problems as you think but calling out a bad story does not make us a -ist or whatever.

  • Tazer.2157Tazer.2157 Member ✭✭✭

    @White Kitsunee.4620 said:

    @Funky.4861 said:

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Yes it is cringe because Crecia is the one who tells Rytlock the time to use his own weapon. Give me a break! The story makes Rytlock seem like an incompetent fool. Crecia should stop creciasplaining. She’s the worst character ever created in game.

    I can only imagine how you can even begin to see things in this manner.

    It's really obvious that Rytlock has taken the beta role in their relationship; Crecia tells him what to do all the time- have you done the Grothmar Valley strike mission? There's dialogue in it where Crecia is completely controlling. This seems at odds to me with Charr culture. If you open your mind a bit, you'll see that we are surrounded by weak male characters and that's sad, because it means the female characters can't be strong in their own roles; they take over the male role too.

    You'll also find that Rytlock has been under our 'command' since Heart of Thorns , or season 3 if you want to be picky.
    They have been softing up Rytlock for years, somebody who was already supposed to be a softer version of a generic Charr, the short stories in S4 come to mind as well as the beginning of s5e3.
    Crecia on the other-hand has been serving as head of the most forwardly and openly militaristic people possible on the planet. Since before Edge of Destiny.
    Crecia by all measures should be way more hardcore then Rytlock should be.
    Yet they messed this up too. Charr have been neutered for a long time in this story, the only one who was even remotely acting like a charr got shot possibly for a meme.

    Are you talking about the same Crecia who you say is more hardcore the one that wants to “save” the Charr? So we have a Charr who hasn’t been in contact with humans, all she knows is the Charr way of life and now she wants to change all of that? At least have your characters stick to their roles and be consistent. Among all the Charr, Rytlock has been the one who has been around other races and cultures. If anything he should be the one who changes the Charr society.

    Rytlock wouldn’t even tell us what he was doing in the mists or how he got his reverent powers. Now he obediently follows Crecia’s orders. Ever since Icebrood saga Rytlock has well been a brood too. He whines all the time, Crecia keeps telling him to behave, he has been neutered from the bad kitten that he was.

    Also really? Crecia tells Rytlock to use his own weapon. The commander tells Rytlock to use his own weapon, something that Rytlock very clearly already knew he was going to be asked to do and was not bringing it up because he didn't like it.
    Don't be mad that oooo female character strong. Be mad that none of the Charr and especially Crecia aren't nearly as awesome as they should be.

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    So well done. After you retconned and antagonized Smodur, you’ve killed him off in a similar manner.

    Also they turned the character assassination they did to smodur into a literately assassination. Absolute gold.
    What the heck the Charr expansion better not be this watered-down.

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hypnowulf.7403 said:
    So... let me sum up.

    • Bangar getting muted by Jormag is a woman dominating a man (Jormag is nonbinary);
    • Ryland joining Jormag as their champion is a woman dominating a man (Jormag is nonbinary);
    • Rytlock deferring to Crecia over anything is a woman dominating a man and "at odds with charr culture;"
    • Crecia being an intelligent, skilled tactician and tribune who has worthwhile things to say is "creciasplaining."

    This community has some interesting problems. I partly hope that Jormag is good just to wind the lot of you up even more.

    Weird way to look at it that way, but okay.
    Flame Legion history aside, Charr society doesn't distinguish their populace as male or female, but as soldiers that either do or don't.
    My problem with Jormag is, she went from a THOT wanting only big, muscular man for minions to a lonely, old lady that collects cats.

    Check out the fable of the Boiling Frog.

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @borgs.6103 said:

    @Hypnowulf.7403 said:
    So... let me sum up.

    • Bangar getting muted by Jormag is a woman dominating a man (Jormag is nonbinary);
    • Ryland joining Jormag as their champion is a woman dominating a man (Jormag is nonbinary);
    • Rytlock deferring to Crecia over anything is a woman dominating a man and "at odds with charr culture;"
    • Crecia being an intelligent, skilled tactician and tribune who has worthwhile things to say is "creciasplaining."

    This community has some interesting problems. I partly hope that Jormag is good just to wind the lot of you up even more.

    Weird way to look at it that way, but okay.
    Flame Legion history aside, Charr society doesn't distinguish their populace as male or female, but as soldiers that either do or don't.
    My problem with Jormag is, she went from a THOT wanting only big, muscular man for minions to a lonely, old lady that collects cats.

    My issue with Jormag is he/she/it/they/dragonhelicopter/whatever shrunk.

    Seriously, look at the tooth in Hoelbrak, then think about how big Jormag's head wasn't when it was basically in your face. There is NO WAY that tooth came from that head.

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

    @borgs.6103 said:

    @Hypnowulf.7403 said:
    So... let me sum up.

    • Bangar getting muted by Jormag is a woman dominating a man (Jormag is nonbinary);
    • Ryland joining Jormag as their champion is a woman dominating a man (Jormag is nonbinary);
    • Rytlock deferring to Crecia over anything is a woman dominating a man and "at odds with charr culture;"
    • Crecia being an intelligent, skilled tactician and tribune who has worthwhile things to say is "creciasplaining."

    This community has some interesting problems. I partly hope that Jormag is good just to wind the lot of you up even more.

    Weird way to look at it that way, but okay.
    Flame Legion history aside, Charr society doesn't distinguish their populace as male or female, but as soldiers that either do or don't.
    My problem with Jormag is, she went from a THOT wanting only big, muscular man for minions to a lonely, old lady that collects cats.

    My issue with Jormag is he/she/it/they/dragonhelicopter/whatever shrunk.

    Seriously, look at the tooth in Hoelbrak, then think about how big Jormag's head wasn't when it was basically in your face. There is NO WAY that tooth came from that head.

    Kralkatorrik also had varying sizes between his multiple appearances.

  • Sir Alric.5078Sir Alric.5078 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:
    My issue with Jormag is he/she/it/they/dragonhelicopter/whatever shrunk.

    Seriously, look at the tooth in Hoelbrak, then think about how big Jormag's head wasn't when it was basically in your face. There is NO WAY that tooth came from that head.

    I also noticed that. But they probably scaled down Jormag's model so it wouldn't be too big to fit the screen, just like they did with Kralkatorrik.

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This is not Bangar's story. It's ours. He is an antagonist. it doesn't matter how powerful or smart he is shown before, he is bound to lose to us, simple as that.
    He can be smart but trying to te a dragon just like that is a dumb idea that only a egomaniac like him could even believe would work. And it bit him in the kitten.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:
    My issue with Jormag is he/she/it/they/dragonhelicopter/whatever shrunk.

    Seriously, look at the tooth in Hoelbrak, then think about how big Jormag's head wasn't when it was basically in your face. There is NO WAY that tooth came from that head.

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    Kralkatorrik also had varying sizes between his multiple appearances.

    @Sir Alric.5078 said:
    I also noticed that. But they probably scaled down Jormag's model so it wouldn't be too big to fit the screen, just like they did with Kralkatorrik.

    The tooth came from Jormag's left tusk, which has its tip broken off, a tusk being a type of tooth(which apparently a lot of people don't know that tusk are teeth for some reason)