*Ep4 Spoiler* That anticlimatic assassination — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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*Ep4 Spoiler* That anticlimatic assassination

Wolfb.7025Wolfb.7025 Member ✭✭✭

Warning, Episode 5 spoilers ahead

After playing this new episode it makes me wonder, is this easy to assassinate targets in Tyria? you can pretty much be a deadeye/pick a sniper rifle and kill anyone you desire and still get away with it as long as you keep yourself stealthed. This assassination was very anticlimatic in that way, any other character in GW2 died in specific and tyria-realistic ways like being captured/cornered, or taken by surprise. but just being killed by a sniper shot while there are hundred of deadeyes roaming around and precisely no casualties reported from them, how come ryland, from all people, suddendly had the bright idea of "what if we use a sniper to kill this person".

Years just pass like trains
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Comments

  • ThatOddOne.4387ThatOddOne.4387 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't know, a leader being sniped isn't particularly outlandish. Sudden, but he should have worn a helmet in a warzone I suppose.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I just chuckled at the lack of a downstate in the pve-version of wvw - something the wvwers seem to cry out for

    BOOM headshot!

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  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2020

    It was only possible because he had access to Mist Portals. It something that only two beings have been capable of, Kralkatorrik and Jormag. There's various other limited travel to the Mists through the story but its extremely restricted.

    Its been noted since the beginning of the game this is the problem with the Svanir/Jormag (Norn Personal Story).

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  • Harak.8397Harak.8397 Member ✭✭

    The sniping wasn't the cringy part, it's that they managed to get that many frost legion ans svanir inside the "super secret" Ash Legion camp without anyone raising an alarm. Had Smodur been sniped on the field of battle I would have seen it as more believable.

    Unrelated side note: Every Imperator of the Charr will be female by the end of the Icebrood saga. If I was Effram I'd feel a little nervous. (Kidding aside, he's a brand new character and has had no actual opinion of his own other than following the other's lead. He'd better not get ambitious or show any initiative though...)

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Harak.8397 said:
    The sniping wasn't the cringy part, it's that they managed to get that many frost legion ans svanir inside the "super secret" Ash Legion camp without anyone raising an alarm.

    You must have missed that the group was surrounded by portals which brought the icebrood. It's not like there was a small army being all stealthy sneaking in. They likely only had one or two shamans sneak in to open the portals, then the forces going through the portals raised hell.

    Unrelated side note: Every Imperator of the Charr will be female by the end of the Icebrood saga. If I was Effram I'd feel a little nervous. (Kidding aside, he's a brand new character and has had no actual opinion of his own other than following the other's lead. He'd better not get ambitious or show any initiative though...)

    Efram showed plenty of opinion when he butted heads with Smodur in Episode 3, or when he professed worry over how the Flame's being treated in the prologue.

    That said, I doubt Crecia will be the new Blood Imperator. She's originally Flame Legion, and assuming ANet didn't forget, Imperators have to be descended from the original legion founder. So by all rights, Crecia is void by right of bloodline, if not questionable origins. In theory she might be eligible for Flame Legion Imperator, but her ties are to Blood, not Flame.

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    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Harak.8397Harak.8397 Member ✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    You must have missed that the group was surrounded by portals which brought the icebrood. It's not like there was a small army being all stealthy sneaking in. They likely only had one or two shamans sneak in to open the portals, then the forces going through the portals raised hell.

    That said, I doubt Crecia will be the new Blood Imperator. She's originally Flame Legion, and assuming ANet didn't forget, Imperators have to be descended from the original legion founder. So by all rights, Crecia is void by right of bloodline, if not questionable origins. In theory she might be eligible for Flame Legion Imperator, but her ties are to Blood, not Flame.

    I must have missed it, I think I had my camera aimed down at the table when it happened. Good point.

    As for Crecia, I doubt that will come into play. Unless Bangar had cubs or brothers/cousins to be introduced real soon... not to mention that when considering Smodur's successor, the gang mentionned ( I forgot her name) as being a trusted aide, not blood relation. Paraphrasing though, I don't remember the exact wording.

  • A great charracter we got since lw2 got killed like nothing, he depops after few seconds, although he did more in the whole story than eir.
    I am quite salty by his death, sniping must be easy in tyria since tyrand succeeded despite the camp being monitored by malice and ash legion

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    @Norentic.4762 said:
    A great charracter we got since lw2 got killed like nothing, he depops after few seconds, although he did more in the whole story than eir.
    I am quite salty by his death, sniping must be easy in tyria since tyrand succeeded despite the camp being monitored by malice and ash legion

    Ryland came out of an icebrood portal, sniped, and then they spawned more portals to attack from.

    Do remember, Ash has defectors too.

    edit: There are two key parts of dialogue that is important to this topic.
    a: Smodur outright states all the Imperators studied each others tactics. Malice confirms this and states that Bangar knows every tactic Smodur typically uses.
    B: Malice or Crecia states they had been making a ton of noise up there with the Sabotage acts, and that a counter strike was bound to happen eventually.

    Anet does pretty good with the fact that not everybody gets a heroic death, an amazing last stand. Sometimes you get stabbed in the back or shot in the middle of a speech.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    @Norentic.4762 said:
    A great charracter we got since lw2 got killed like nothing, he depops after few seconds, although he did more in the whole story than eir.
    I am quite salty by his death, sniping must be easy in tyria since tyrand succeeded despite the camp being monitored by malice and ash legion

    To be fair its not exactly like he was that far away he prob could have shot him in the head with a pistol form that distance and got the same result. So im not sure why you have to say sniping must be easy. He is a warrior and Warriors do have skill called kill shot which by all means way back in the times of core days killed other players all the time if they didnt dodge it. There is no reason to suggest he would have proper rifle skills in the first place.

    As far as Malice and the others they did say that they should have had the place more prepped or something which implies they took a risk rushing things rather than making them secure. They also likely didnt expect someone like Ryland to make a move like that which is likely the only reason it probably could have worked in the first place.

    To be honest I'm a fan of the charr and while his death did bother many other fans it hardly bothered me considering how he acted the episode before. I also never played the iron legion personal story more than once so to me Smodur was not all that 'Great" or "Likable" to me. I know he pops up in some other points before and after hot and during PoF etc but still he is not this amazing character that everyone seems to go on about to me. I saw his death or some kind of punishment coming at a future date the moment he killed Cinder in the previous episode. My bet was going to be that him and Efram throw hands or that Ryland gets him back.. looks like Ryland got him back lol.

    Some people also pointed out that from a technical stand point it would have been strategically better for Ryland to shoot any other person at that table other than Smodur which is likely true but then it really would have just been a random death with no effect that really triggered that cause. At we know that Smodur was the cause of Rylands effective actions in that moment which does make sense to me.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Norentic.4762 said:
    A great charracter we got since lw2 got killed like nothing, he depops after few seconds, although he did more in the whole story than eir.
    I am quite salty by his death, sniping must be easy in tyria since tyrand succeeded despite the camp being monitored by malice and ash legion

    To be fair its not exactly like he was that far away he prob could have shot him in the head with a pistol form that distance and got the same result. So im not sure why you have to say sniping must be easy. He is a warrior and Warriors do have skill called kill shot which by all means way back in the times of core days killed other players all the time if they didnt dodge it. There is no reason to suggest he would have proper rifle skills in the first place.

    As far as Malice and the others they did say that they should have had the place more prepped or something which implies they took a risk rushing things rather than making them secure. They also likely didnt expect someone like Ryland to make a move like that which is likely the only reason it probably could have worked in the first place.

    To be honest I'm a fan of the charr and while his death did bother many other fans it hardly bothered me considering how he acted the episode before. I also never played the iron legion personal story more than once so to me Smodur was not all that 'Great" or "Likable" to me. I know he pops up in some other points before and after hot and during PoF etc but still he is not this amazing character that everyone seems to go on about to me. I saw his death or some kind of punishment coming at a future date the moment he killed Cinder in the previous episode. My bet was going to be that him and Efram throw hands or that Ryland gets him back.. looks like Ryland got him back lol.

    Some people also pointed out that from a technical stand point it would have been strategically better for Ryland to shoot any other person at that table other than Smodur which is likely true but then it really would have just been a random death with no effect that really triggered that cause. At we know that Smodur was the cause of Rylands effective actions in that moment which does make sense to me.

    Killing anybody but Smodur wouldn't have made sense, frankly.

    A: Smodur killed the last person in Ryland's warband. His last "family" member.
    B: Smodur is the Iron Imperator, and Iron is the bulk of the United Legion's firepower. Killing him could throw Iron into chaos possibly.
    C: Bangar knows Smodur would be the best person to take down his defenses with Artillery commands. Killing Smodur weakens the enemy because a strong leader is removed.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Norentic.4762 said:
    A great charracter we got since lw2 got killed like nothing, he depops after few seconds, although he did more in the whole story than eir.
    I am quite salty by his death, sniping must be easy in tyria since tyrand succeeded despite the camp being monitored by malice and ash legion

    To be fair its not exactly like he was that far away he prob could have shot him in the head with a pistol form that distance and got the same result. So im not sure why you have to say sniping must be easy. He is a warrior and Warriors do have skill called kill shot which by all means way back in the times of core days killed other players all the time if they didnt dodge it. There is no reason to suggest he would have proper rifle skills in the first place.

    As far as Malice and the others they did say that they should have had the place more prepped or something which implies they took a risk rushing things rather than making them secure. They also likely didnt expect someone like Ryland to make a move like that which is likely the only reason it probably could have worked in the first place.

    To be honest I'm a fan of the charr and while his death did bother many other fans it hardly bothered me considering how he acted the episode before. I also never played the iron legion personal story more than once so to me Smodur was not all that 'Great" or "Likable" to me. I know he pops up in some other points before and after hot and during PoF etc but still he is not this amazing character that everyone seems to go on about to me. I saw his death or some kind of punishment coming at a future date the moment he killed Cinder in the previous episode. My bet was going to be that him and Efram throw hands or that Ryland gets him back.. looks like Ryland got him back lol.

    Some people also pointed out that from a technical stand point it would have been strategically better for Ryland to shoot any other person at that table other than Smodur which is likely true but then it really would have just been a random death with no effect that really triggered that cause. At we know that Smodur was the cause of Rylands effective actions in that moment which does make sense to me.

    Killing anybody but Smodur wouldn't have made sense, frankly.

    A: Smodur killed the last person in Ryland's warband. His last "family" member.
    B: Smodur is the Iron Imperator, and Iron is the bulk of the United Legion's firepower. Killing him could throw Iron into chaos possibly.
    C: Bangar knows Smodur would be the best person to take down his defenses with Artillery commands. Killing Smodur weakens the enemy because a strong leader is removed.

    It depends on how you look at it I guess.
    Technically speaking though lets assume he had shot someone else.
    Smodur rushes in blindly without any conrtrol and fails the assault because bangar knows his plans and methods like the back of his hand.

    From a technical stand point if ryland had shot someone else it would have likely limited alternative options that could have been taken aside form the straight forward assault for example. Thats how im looking at it.

    But in terms of having a reason too shoot someone it does make sense that Ryland would shoot Smodur without question.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    @Norentic.4762 said:
    A great charracter we got since lw2 got killed like nothing, he depops after few seconds, although he did more in the whole story than eir.
    I am quite salty by his death, sniping must be easy in tyria since tyrand succeeded despite the camp being monitored by malice and ash legion

    I would hardly call Smodur a "great character". In both the personal story and Season 2, he had very little interaction and screentime, and what little interaction there was, was ultimately a 1-dimensional stereotypical military officer personality.

    And more in the whole story than Eir, really?

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Kalavier.1097 said:
    Killing anybody but Smodur wouldn't have made sense, frankly.

    A: Smodur killed the last person in Ryland's warband. His last "family" member.
    B: Smodur is the Iron Imperator, and Iron is the bulk of the United Legion's firepower. Killing him could throw Iron into chaos possibly.
    C: Bangar knows Smodur would be the best person to take down his defenses with Artillery commands. Killing Smodur weakens the enemy because a strong leader is removed.

    It depends on how you look at it I guess.
    Technically speaking though lets assume he had shot someone else.
    Smodur rushes in blindly without any conrtrol and fails the assault because bangar knows his plans and methods like the back of his hand.

    From a technical stand point if ryland had shot someone else it would have likely limited alternative options that could have been taken aside form the straight forward assault for example. Thats how im looking at it.

    But in terms of having a reason too shoot someone it does make sense that Ryland would shoot Smodur without question.

    It's fairly clear that the ambush was intended to kill all imperators. Ryland likely went in with the sniper rifle to ensure he got his personal revenge against Smodur. That said, I wouldn't be surprised that if it turned out Bangar had given orders to Ryland to assassinate a specific imperator, it would have been Efram. For three reasons:

    1. He's the newest imperator, meaning he's the one who's tactics are most unknown to Bangar.
    2. He leads Flame Legion, which uses fire magic that would prove the biggest or second biggest weapon against the Frost Legion.
    3. He's the reason Flame Legion has stuck around with the allied High Legions' actions, and his death would no doubt mean more defectors in Flame to Dominion, or just leaving the battlefield, far more so than killing Malice or Smodur.

    And of course, I can't imagine Bangar believing he could convince Ryland to assassinate his own dame, who would probably be the second biggest threat to Bangar among the allied Legions' leadership..

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    All these squares make a circle.

  • Wolfb.7025Wolfb.7025 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Norentic.4762 said:
    A great charracter we got since lw2 got killed like nothing, he depops after few seconds, although he did more in the whole story than eir.
    I am quite salty by his death, sniping must be easy in tyria since tyrand succeeded despite the camp being monitored by malice and ash legion

    I would hardly call Smodur a "great character". In both the personal story and Season 2, he had very little interaction and screentime, and what little interaction there was, was ultimately a 1-dimensional stereotypical military officer personality.

    Having no much screentime doesn't mean the character isn't relevant at all, Smodur was a VERY important secondary character, we're talkign about an imperator, and let alone, the imperator of the most -relevant- legion, at least on the player's perspective (Having the main CHarr city under his command) and as today, we don't know anyone else cappable to carrying out the duty of being the Iron Legion Imperator. Malice mentioned Mia Kindleshot would be a good candidate to lead Iron Legion troops in Smodur absence, but she's a charr we haven't seen much about, only thing we know is that she helped with the Ebonhawke Treaty and was present in representation of the Charr in the Caudecus's Manor story dungeon.

    ANother thing is, Smodur was the only charr with true potential to become next Khan-Ur and it was further proven with the Imperator Correspondence #3 (thank you anet, at least you left a good image of him), even though the playerbase saw him as some kitten for how he behaved during this war, its exactly what would make a good khan-ur, weed out the bad influence, no mercy for defectors, command the war under his absolute order, only thing missing was having the Khan-ur articles and winning everyone's respect which could have achieved by winning the war against Frost Legion, he expected support from the other imperators instead of seeing them as competitors.

    I admit I made this thread just to blow off some steam since being killed that way after forcing a character to act all smug and arrogant to the audience's eye was kind of a bad move. I mean, judging by some comments in this and other threads, peopel started to dislike Smodur for the same reasons, but not everyone saw him the way @Kossage.9072 did (good post btw) and only went to the superficial behavior., which saddends me in a way. It added some spice to the story, yes, but anet made the audience side up with the PC allies in their impossible quest to recover his precious cub in the middle of a war threatening a race and commanded by him.

    Years just pass like trains
    I wave but they don't sloow dooown~ don't slow doown~♪

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭

    Who controls the portals? Bangar or Jormag?

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along with other quantum cuddle clocks

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 3, 2020

    @Kossage.9072 said:
    Besides, the saga missed a great opportunity of not only showing Bangar's triumphant return to charr lands to announe his victory over Drakkar (and the true announcement of the Dominion)

    I don't believe Bangar ever returned to Charr lands after defeating Drakkar. By the time he "beat" Drakkar, he was already wanted as a rogue Imperator, and Crecia as in command of the Blood Legion, and its lands. Had he tried to return to Charr lands, he would have been arrested, or killed.

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 3, 2020

    The whole instance was awkward and I agree that Smodur's death was anti-climatic.

    They used the offer and rescinding of branching story paths as a narrative device. The offer was unmistakable since it looked like every other offer of branching paths. I understand using the Commander's "F" this power to control the pacing of the discussion and the effect the pacing had on the surprise attack. The studio should have used a different method to control the pacing, something that did not resemble every other offer of branching paths.

    Smodur's argument that the Commander was needed at the front gate became stronger with his death. They built up the importance of each path, then auto-resolved the debate by killing one of the debaters. The importance of the Commander making a difficult decision was flushed down the toilet.

    Smoldur killed the last member of Ryland's warband and possibly his love interest. The only reason to do this was to close the door on Ryland returning to the fold. We can ignore the fact that Cinder Steeltemper was fridged. The studio could have invested in Ryland's agency and made his personality stand on its own, but cliches and narrative devices are cheaper. All of that tension between Ryland and Smodur was resolved with just a bullet. Maybe there was a message on the bullet.

    The scene could be even more awkward depending on who controls the portal.

    Perhaps I am describing a matter of taste and I feel awkward offering revisions. However, I think this scene needed the Commander to reinforce their independence from the Charr civil war and their role as a guild leader. The two paths shouldn't have been presented as equally possible. The Commander should have known which path was right for them and held firm. If the scene needed to include the theme of Ryland's revenge, I would have the portal deliver a beast that drags Smoldur back through. Have the beast reappear at Ryalnd's side during the last scene. The beast would have foreshadowed and reinforced Jormag's favor. Anything to make that last scene more interesting and climatic.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along with other quantum cuddle clocks

  • JTGuevara.9018JTGuevara.9018 Member ✭✭✭

    Eh...the assassination was expected. Smodur did kill Cinder, someone close to Ryland. He got shot in return, nothing complicated here at all.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    Also, the point is made of having all the eggs in one basket.

    If the Commander and crew show up at the front door, Bangar knows all the major players are infront of him and can be taken out at once.

    If the attack happens and the commander doesn't show up, but has been known to be in the area? Bangar is on guard, wondering where the hell he/she is.

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭

    If Jormag opened the portal, the attack could not have been planned unless we allow for explicit, direct cooperation between Bangar/Ryland and Jormag. Up till this point, cooperation has been indirect and implicit. Perhaps the attack is best understood as an attack of opportunity offered by Jormag as a test of Ryland's character. Jormag opens a portal near Ryland and a group of Charr to see how Ryland responds.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along with other quantum cuddle clocks

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    If Jormag opened the portal, the attack could not have been planned unless we allow for explicit, direct cooperation between Bangar/Ryland and Jormag. Up till this point, cooperation has been indirect and implicit. Perhaps the attack is best understood as an attack of opportunity offered by Jormag as a test of Ryland's character. Jormag opens a portal near Ryland and a group of Charr to see how Ryland responds.

    Doesn't have to be Jormag. Can be icebrood or Svanir, or Frost Legion now. You could see a gathered army on the other side of the portals.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    If Jormag opened the portal, the attack could not have been planned unless we allow for explicit, direct cooperation between Bangar/Ryland and Jormag. Up till this point, cooperation has been indirect and implicit. Perhaps the attack is best understood as an attack of opportunity offered by Jormag as a test of Ryland's character. Jormag opens a portal near Ryland and a group of Charr to see how Ryland responds.

    Doesn't have to be Jormag. Can be icebrood or Svanir, or Frost Legion now. You could see a gathered army on the other side of the portals.

    The assassination used the older Svanir Portals, not the newer Dominion Portals that shows the army. So they were most likely opened by Svanir shamans in allegiance to the Frost Legion.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.