Rotations Mini-Guide

While being a strong mechanical player will certainly increase your chances of winning, it is not the only, or even the largest, factor. Rotations, or your movements across the map, probably have the largest effect on the outcome of a match. In the words of Ostrich Eggs, rotations are to “maximize your potential to fuck them up.” However, rotations are a somewhat abstract concept, so it can be difficult to learn for a new players. I find the easiest way to explain them is to go from the ground up, recursively adding new concepts, so here we go:

1. The most basic kind of rotations is just matching numbers. If you’re just in even fights across the map, you’re in an okay position. This relies on predictions of where opponents will go and when they start moving. One of the main ways to do this is tracking respawns and having someone go wherever the respawning player is. The main flaw with rotations this general and simple is that you can frequently get caught in fights where you’re at a disadvantage. In such a situation, assuming equivalent mechanical skill, you’ll lose.
2. The next step up is to have a sort of priority list of who rotates into what. For example, the Tempest is the first to rotate into team fights, while the Druid is the first to rotate into 1v1s. This takes a little bit more advanced predictions, since you aren’t just predicting where one individual player will go, but where the opposing team is going to focus their pressure. Contrary to the 1st step, this method will guarantee that you have good comps for your fights, but doesn’t optimize them.
3. After that, you’ll have to factor in your knowledge of matchups. Maybe at the previous level you had a Druid watching your home node, but now you notice that a Dragonhunter is pushing your home node. In that instance, maybe you send the Scrapper to guard the node instead. The Druid wouldn’t lose that 1v1, but the Scrapper can actually kill the Dragonhunter fairly easily, so it’s a more optimal matchup. Team fighting matchups get more complicated than the 1v1s, so the inner workings get a little bit more based on intuition. However, this puts you on the opposite side of step one, where you have matched numbers, but advantages in those fights.
4. The next thing you should factor in is how long it takes for you to lose disadvantaged fights so you can use that time to win other fights. With PuGs, it’s less consistent, but you can still have a general idea of how long certain matchups will take to end. If you run into the same people frequently, you can get an even better idea. If you play in a team, you should have more trust in your teammates, allowing you to do this the best. Then you try to outnumber your opponents in a way that you’ll kill them before your allies die.

CommentsThe actual implementation of this depends on your class, but I won’t get into that in a general guide like this. There are also some more complex rotations around things like secondary mechanics and snowballing, but this is just meant as a quick read. All of those stem from these concepts, regardless. This is a little mini-guide I put together about a year ago for reddit, but I felt like posting it on the new forum.

Not sure if this goes into what you are saying, but people really need ro learn when to RUN.

Silver/hold everyone seems to think that once you engage a target you must fight them to the death. Be it getting kites across the map, abandoning a neutral node, or be if a martyr.

Learn when to abandon a futile fight.

If you are 1v1 on a neutral node and you get nowhere after 2 min? BAIL!You are losing a fight on top of neutral/enemy node? BAIL!

TIME is a huge factor. In the time it takes you to fight a player who is bunker and can't kill you but you cant kill them, you could have rotated to another fight amd +1 your teammates for sure kills.

Math. A point per node is 1. A kill is 5.You fight at node for a stalemate, at BEST get 6pts if you kill. Or BAIL on node, lose 1 or and gain 10+ by focusing players in teamfight.

I used to rage at players not stomping. But now I see how useful it is to down a player in specific places and abandoning them to take them out of fight for 30+ seconds.

Am I making any sense?

Yeah, timing when to kill on Capricorn and Skyhammer is really important.

@Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:Not sure if this goes into what you are saying, but people really need ro learn when to RUN.

Silver/hold everyone seems to think that once you engage a target you must fight them to the death. Be it getting kites across the map, abandoning a neutral node, or be if a martyr.

Learn when to abandon a futile fight.

If you are 1v1 on a neutral node and you get nowhere after 2 min? BAIL!You are losing a fight on top of neutral/enemy node? BAIL!

TIME is a huge factor. In the time it takes you to fight a player who is bunker and can't kill you but you cant kill them, you could have rotated to another fight amd +1 your teammates for sure kills.

Math. A point per node is 1. A kill is 5.You fight at node for a stalemate, at BEST get 6pts if you kill. Or BAIL on node, lose 1 or and gain 10+ by focusing players in teamfight.

I used to rage at players not stomping. But now I see how useful it is to down a player in specific places and abandoning them to take them out of fight for 30+ seconds.

Am I making any sense?

This is, by far, the biggest difference I see in fights that snowball out of control. A lot of players get into hopeless fights because they are trying to avoid doing nothing at all costs. And while I don't disagree with the mentality to a degree, it leads to a lot of bad decision making. Or else they will be in a fight that was originally winnable but now isn't (maybe a 3v3 turned into a 3v1) and instead of escaping they stay and contest the point. Sometimes even dragging more teammates into a hopeless fight.

That being said, some classes or builds struggle to disengage. My engineer doesn't die too much in most matches because I can sneak gyro out. But my guardian will die a lot more often if he gets caught in what I thought was a 1v1 but turned into a sudden 2v1 or 3v1. Too slow and doesn't have anything that really lets him escape.

But a lot of times I think the bad decisions is due to lack of communication and toxic players.

@OP Please say more about class matchups. Try to be a specific as possible.

@Omcrazy.4756 said:

@Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:Not sure if this goes into what you are saying, but people really need ro learn when to RUN.

Silver/hold everyone seems to think that once you engage a target you must fight them to the death. Be it getting kites across the map, abandoning a neutral node, or be if a martyr.

Learn when to abandon a futile fight.

If you are 1v1 on a neutral node and you get nowhere after 2 min? BAIL!You are losing a fight on top of neutral/enemy node? BAIL!

TIME is a huge factor. In the time it takes you to fight a player who is bunker and can't kill you but you cant kill them, you could have rotated to another fight amd +1 your teammates for sure kills.

Math. A point per node is 1. A kill is 5.You fight at node for a stalemate, at BEST get 6pts if you kill. Or BAIL on node, lose 1 or and gain 10+ by focusing players in teamfight.

I used to rage at players not stomping. But now I see how useful it is to down a player in specific places and abandoning them to take them out of fight for 30+ seconds.

Am I making any sense?

See here I agree with you. Look we agree.

Class matchups change frequently with the meta, and are also different at different skill levels. It's hard to make a general post about those. Maybe after PoF, but not a week before it launches. This is meant so that players can analyze how to improve their own rotations than to detail them for them.

Another good tip is to look at your teammates HP before rotating. If I push far for the 1v1 and they +1 me, look at my HP before rotating far. If you don't have time to rotate there within a few seconds, chances are I'll be dead by the time you get there. So if you see me half HP with a bunch of condis, that's your cue to +1 a fight somewhere else and punish their rotation. Maximizing your chances to win fights can also mean not participating in some.

Agreed, pushing into losing fights is almost always a bad idea.

@OlrunTheBlade.1486 said:Agreed, pushing into losing fights is almost always a bad idea.

but baves and I pushed into a 2v5 and won with 2 condi thieves. So obviously pushing into fights is always a good idea kappa.

Well then clearly it was a winning fight kappa

@Ithilwen.1529 said:@OP Please say more about class matchups. Try to be a specific as possible.

class matchups are weird. they are all theory crafted around hypothetical equal skill levels. but looking at jebros 1v1 tournaments, & actual gameplay it's very common to see fights not go down how they should on paper.

so, your 1v1 matchups are going to be different from other peoples. like, if im playing my Xzibit Guardian build i don't afraid of anything 1v1. i only lose of that build if i fuck up, or i get +1. but other builds are different.basically depends on how good you are at 1v1ing other classes.

still you can always just DUO queue so you can ask for +1. tbh, we really should have a solo & team mixed queue. would save so many complaints, & is so much more fun than DUO or solo. spikes, good rotations & portals- thats the way to play.

Just base it on your experience in queues as to how matchups go.

I'd say it's a mix of experience and knowledge. Seek out ways to beat builds that you're having trouble against, but knowledge isn't everything. Some builds you'll know how to counter, but for the life of you will always struggle fighting. The opposite can be true also, having an easy time vs builds you should be unfavored against.

Theoretical matchup knowledge vs applying that knowledge in a fight are 2 different things, too. It's easy to say thief wins vs warrior every time by just baiting out Berserker Stance, kiting, then spamming blinds. While that is valid knowledge, warrior also has a lot of CC. Which means if you slip up and get CCd once at a bad time, you're dead.

People in general put too much emphasis on matchups imo. You don't always have to win 1v1s to be helpful in conquest. For example, if I know I can force a mesmer to fight me on a node, they won't be able to stop me from at least decapping then leaving even if in a longer fight they would outsustain me. Now if I just thought "well mesmer is a bad matchup for me so I shouldn't go near him", I could overlook the scenario of an easy decap being beneficial to my team at this moment.

My rotation is simple, avoid 1vs1 and duel mentality. I run minion necro+warhorn, so a combination of mobility with 15s of swiftness+suport oriented build, i help my teammates kill fast. Unless some of them clearly are Op at 1vs1 so i leave that one alone, in this case i try focus on weak spots.

Blitzkrieg, try always outnumber, and good intel to fast switch tatic if losing. With this u can manage the most odd situations like have 2thievs+1mes on team.

@eksn.7264 said:Another good tip is to look at your teammates HP before rotating. If I push far for the 1v1 and they +1 me, look at my HP before rotating far. If you don't have time to rotate there within a few seconds, chances are I'll be dead by the time you get there. So if you see me half HP with a bunch of condis, that's your cue to +1 a fight somewhere else and punish their rotation. Maximizing your chances to win fights can also mean not participating in some.

I see this so often in games (and am guilty of it myself). Much better to rotate elsewhere or just try to regroup with your teammates rather than charge into a losing battle. This can be frustrating because it might mean you are standing still and doing nothing. But better to stack on home for a few seconds rather than yolo 2v1 or 3v1. This isn't helped by all the people who start yelling at teammates whenever they see more than one person at home.

@OlrunTheBlade.1486 said:Class matchups change frequently with the meta, and are also different at different skill levels. It's hard to make a general post about those. Maybe after PoF, but not a week before it launches. This is meant so that players can analyze how to improve their own rotations than to detail them for them.

I suppose you could group up builds by type and make a list (bunker, support, dps, condi) and go from there. I'm not really pushing for this its just an idea.

I've made posts like that before, but the issue is that most builds fill more than one build archetype. It's a little more complicated than just grouping them like that.