How to properly nerf Herald Condition AND Mallyx (Very simple.) — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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How to properly nerf Herald Condition AND Mallyx (Very simple.)

Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited July 30, 2020 in PVP

First off, you should revert the changes because they are unwarranted. A blind blanket reduction only removed nearly all viability for an entire legend, that's terrible. You cannot compare this nerf to the last power blanket nerf because it doesn't relate to it in the first place, we're talking about conditions here.

Now, from there. In the past, Mallyx as a whole was fine until the traits were changed. Sustain wise it was reasonable and had to be timed so that the legend wouldn't be a sitting duck constantly, now the options are all bad like before transfers became a thing.

  • Fiendish Tenacity
    It's a trait that didn't exist before and should honestly never had, if it had to exist. It wouldn't have had to give Resistance on legend swap, that would had been fine. It would basically contribute as a better Spirit Boon for options that can't really contest it, Diabolic Inferno is mediocre, the Transfer is too weak at 2 conditions and being telegraphed. See more though, because I like the idea behind but it can't exist with everything.

  • Spirit Boon
    Something that had remained the same for years, changing it's Resistance duration basically means nothing now, 2 seconds was just enough to do anything in compensation, 1 seconds allows NOTHING to be done. It shouldn't be touched at all. This trait is innocent and should have remained the way it was.

  • Demonic Defiance
    It's a mixed bag of problems, there could be better as there is more to it than people seem to realize which I'll explain below. Regardless, you can't have FT or DD, in my personal opinion it doesn't matter which gets to be removed because while DD is slightly stronger, it had been like it was for years too and nobody complained. As long as SB and one other trait that grants Resistance is restored, it's all that matters. DD would allow periodical Resistance which is part of the problem while FT would spread Resistance across in a timely matter every now and then rather than every 5 seconds which is a much more healthy /predictable/ endeavor so you can see where factually it can make sense, preferably for Balance, FT should stay at the old 2 seconds while DD should be reworked.

The biggest problem in the room for the legend;

  • Empowering Misery
    It's a weirdly made skill that is not viable at all or good /enough/ depending on the traits. Why? Because poison exists and is really common, mechanically Runes are also not useful to it. Revenant rune doesn't prevent poison effects and other runes are tied to longer cooldowns that are not viable. Should Revenant rune actually work well with it's own profession, this would have helped. Otherwise, Demonic Defiance ICD is NOT tied to it and that introduces an influx of Resistance that doesn't belong, with Pain Absorption it's possible to earn 6 seconds which is a problem. Not only does it force Mallyx players to always rely on DD but you also introduce the fact that DD is the only viable trait, which would be a different story if EM actually had it's own Resistance from the start, me as a long time Mallyx player always wanted to use other traits but you can't because the healing skill becomes a costly burden.

I can hear the people saying that "Oh but we have skills that don't clear conditions at all, why should we care if Revenant has it's own?" because this skill reward players for using it at a peak of pressure and that peak of pressure is only possible with Resistance, prior to ignore that poison exists, it's nearly impossible to make it worth while without Resistance or loss all the bonus health right away.

It would actually be preferable to see DD being reworked altogether, be gone from the game and leave SB and FT to their own predictable patterns that people CAN counter and have EM with it's own set of 2 seconds of Resistance so that Mallyx players don't have to always rely on having to use PA which is a costly skill, runes or traits such as DD, FT and SB. This would take care of a large influx of Resistance and leave Mallyx as the balanced legend that it was before those traits appeared because before DD while still overboard, wasn't able to compensate as much as it currently did with the existence of FT.

If from the start Mallyx had been properly designed with it's Resistance on EM, this whole entire blanket nerf would have been more or less impactful because DD the way it's designed right now with EM allows to bypass the ICD and earn more precious Resistance because of it. For example, if I use PA, that's 4 seconds, then I can use EM right away which is apart to earn another 2 seconds while this goes on the 6 seconds will pass for another PA which will earn me another 4 seconds on top that of which waiting long enough, I can time another 4 seconds in because of the ICD, that's with the trait alone, of course no damage has been achieved unless people have so on decided to spam me while I am on the defensive, just transfer.

Regardless, DD is designed in a very exploitable way that should just be reworked or removed for something else. Have EM given it's own Resistance and let the rest be defined if people care for SB or FT, by removing DD you remove a potential of 4 seconds by itself, removing what made it possible to fill gaps.

Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

Comments

  • Eugchriss.2046Eugchriss.2046 Member ✭✭✭

    Anet never reverts their changes. They did what they did. Move on.
    Glint/mallyx is dead, long life to glint/dwarf!!

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:
    Anet never reverts their changes. They did what they did. Move on.
    Glint/mallyx is dead, long life to glint/dwarf!!

    You say that but they've reverted Chronomancer and Scourge, It's clear they had no idea of what to do with it and decided to wipe the entire Resistance related traits because everyone would pick those instead of doing anything else. Picking them altogether still is somewhat playable but at the cost of everything else? Bad, just bad. Restore old traits, rework DD, fix EM lack of Resistance and it's balanced for people to faceroll. You know it because it'll take management to juggle conditions off, something that hasn't really been done while it existed but should be done because that's how Mallyx is supposed to be played.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This is not being reverted so focus your efforts elsewhere.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phokus.8934 said:
    This is not being reverted so focus your efforts elsewhere.

    I'm still playing Mallyx and you'll see it around, those changes barely affect me as what I /really/ want is EM to stop being so dependent on DD. I still don't endorse senseless nerfs killing 90% of the playability when it has counters majority aren't bothered to play for and could be farmed. Calling it from miles away, Jalis is gonna be QQ'd on for having too much Stability even though it had been already nerfed.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hmmm a blind blanket reduction not solving balance issues, sounds familiar, lol these devs man.

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Hmmm a blind blanket reduction not solving balance issues, sounds familiar.

    Perhaps people will never understand, that balance changes are just grinding us closer to a boring homogeneous and useless game...history continues to repeat...we see the same posts all the time...nobody will be satisfied until we all get sticks. Nobody bothers to question why we still have a balance issues...nobody bothers with understanding the methods...it’s all part of a status quo.

    If folks on the forum lived in the matrix, they wouldn’t even think to know to even ask the question

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Another lazy balance from anet

    Herald is like holo many tools shine in their hands, and anet continues to nerf the tools while avoid the source of the problem and killing a core spec in the process

    It seems like they love some elite concepts and are not willing to nerf those classes

  • Caine.8204Caine.8204 Member ✭✭✭

    i'm fine with the killing of this spec.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Caine.8204 said:
    i'm fine with the killing of this spec.

    Like I said, it still works. Only that now you made the 3 traits even more mandatory. So you can congratulate Anet on it rather than properly balancing the issues.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The problem is that resistance should not even exist. Look how they have to limit access to it. It's ridiculous. But what other option do you have with a boon that is designed to negate all damage AFTER it is applied? It's simply too powerful and should never have been a thing in the first place.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    The problem is that resistance should not even exist. Look how they have to limit access to it. It's ridiculous. But what other option do you have with a boon that is designed to negate all damage AFTER it is applied? It's simply too powerful and should never have been a thing in the first place.

    Well to consider that I play with Condition Damage Reduction rather than Resistance, I can understand where you are coming from and that's why I am suggesting the removal of DD and rework of EM so that we can move on from that bad design.

    In fact, Resistance by the way I use it is only for stacking conditions in a short amount of time to counter with a transfer. Resistance in the design of Mallyx is useful for;

    • Healing properly. (Healing more for having more conditions absolutely requires DD or PA the costly skill, bad design. Should have it's own 2 seconds of Resistance.)
    • Being able to stack conditions and counter. (Easily can be factually proven by PA design and traits.)

    I want to fix the influx of Resistance from using Demon skills altogether. Killing SB, FT and DD made it nearly impossible to use rightfully without participating in a teamfight.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2020

    @Tanbin.2436 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Hmmm a blind blanket reduction not solving balance issues, sounds familiar.

    Perhaps people will never understand, that balance changes are just grinding us closer to a boring homogeneous and useless game...history continues to repeat...we see the same posts all the time...nobody will be satisfied until we all get sticks. Nobody bothers to question why we still have a balance issues...nobody bothers with understanding the methods...it’s all part of a status quo.

    If folks on the forum lived in the matrix, they wouldn’t even think to know to even ask the question

    "Perhaps people will never understand, that balance changes are just grinding us closer to a boring homogeneous and useless game."

    crev meta build was literally designed to boringly defend a point / keep it neutral by doing an endless 1v1 and wait to get +1'd every now and then... and you're trying to say they're trying to push it TO boring bunkery gameplay?

    forum players are so trash , they actually balance around these players like you and it's sad.

    Herald Condition is not bunker, player behavior is the defining factor on it's ability to bunk. All of it's sustain depends on how the offender will heal the revenant and how stupidly bad will it waste it's conditions on Resistance application if not power, because power has no problem vs Herald Condition.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2020

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Tanbin.2436 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Hmmm a blind blanket reduction not solving balance issues, sounds familiar.

    Perhaps people will never understand, that balance changes are just grinding us closer to a boring homogeneous and useless game...history continues to repeat...we see the same posts all the time...nobody will be satisfied until we all get sticks. Nobody bothers to question why we still have a balance issues...nobody bothers with understanding the methods...it’s all part of a status quo.

    If folks on the forum lived in the matrix, they wouldn’t even think to know to even ask the question

    "Perhaps people will never understand, that balance changes are just grinding us closer to a boring homogeneous and useless game."

    crev meta build was literally designed to boringly defend a point / keep it neutral by doing an endless 1v1 and wait to get +1'd every now and then... and you're trying to say they're trying to push it TO boring bunkery gameplay?

    forum players are so trash , they actually balance around these players like you and it's sad.

    Herald Condition is not bunker, player behavior is the defining factor on it's ability to bunk. All of it's sustain depends on how the offender will heal the revenant and how stupidly bad will it waste it's conditions on Resistance application if not power, because power has no problem vs Herald Condition.

    EDIT I will list all ways for crev to heal.
    1 Glint heal.
    2 Pulsing regeneration from glint.
    3 Empowering misery
    4 Resistance grants pulsing healing
    5 Breaking stun heals
    6 shield 4 heals
    7 Shield 5 heals
    8 Staff 2 heals
    9 Staff 3 heals
    hmm thats alot of ways to heal.
    odd right? maybe just maybe resistance was not the only reason rev wasnt dying. After all power builds didnt kill them 1v1.

    " All of it's sustain depends on how the offender will heal the revenant and how stupidly bad will it waste it's conditions on Resistance application if not power, because power has no problem vs Herald Condition."
    big lol

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Tanbin.2436 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Hmmm a blind blanket reduction not solving balance issues, sounds familiar.

    Perhaps people will never understand, that balance changes are just grinding us closer to a boring homogeneous and useless game...history continues to repeat...we see the same posts all the time...nobody will be satisfied until we all get sticks. Nobody bothers to question why we still have a balance issues...nobody bothers with understanding the methods...it’s all part of a status quo.

    If folks on the forum lived in the matrix, they wouldn’t even think to know to even ask the question

    "Perhaps people will never understand, that balance changes are just grinding us closer to a boring homogeneous and useless game."

    crev meta build was literally designed to boringly defend a point / keep it neutral by doing an endless 1v1 and wait to get +1'd every now and then... and you're trying to say they're trying to push it TO boring bunkery gameplay?

    forum players are so trash , they actually balance around these players like you and it's sad.

    Herald Condition is not bunker, player behavior is the defining factor on it's ability to bunk. All of it's sustain depends on how the offender will heal the revenant and how stupidly bad will it waste it's conditions on Resistance application if not power, because power has no problem vs Herald Condition.

    you are acting as if glint heal is the only way to heal.
    rev has 2 heals, it has pulsing heal on shield, it has healing on staff.
    it has 2 blocks, and a dodge ON TOP of IL and resist spam and blind and weakness.

    Glints heal is a toss up on how well it works. It can heal to full or barely at all because people realize attacking is a dumb idea. Mallyx's heal is solid but extremely susceptible to poison without resistance, which makes no sense considering it's supposed to be stronger with condi, and gets no added benefits against power builds that Mallyx struggles against.

    Staff heal is barely over 1k base healing, it's mostly for the cleanse since it's the only non traited weapon skill that cleanses on the whole class, shield is still a giant unblockable bait button and the healing got reduced again when the previous heal nerfs years ago made it completely unviable and not worth the risk of rooting. Staff also means your condi pressure goes to 0 without being in Mallyx and can't do anything but try to stall for a few moments longer.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CutesySylveon.8290 edited my post

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Tanbin.2436 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Hmmm a blind blanket reduction not solving balance issues, sounds familiar.

    Perhaps people will never understand, that balance changes are just grinding us closer to a boring homogeneous and useless game...history continues to repeat...we see the same posts all the time...nobody will be satisfied until we all get sticks. Nobody bothers to question why we still have a balance issues...nobody bothers with understanding the methods...it’s all part of a status quo.

    If folks on the forum lived in the matrix, they wouldn’t even think to know to even ask the question

    "Perhaps people will never understand, that balance changes are just grinding us closer to a boring homogeneous and useless game."

    crev meta build was literally designed to boringly defend a point / keep it neutral by doing an endless 1v1 and wait to get +1'd every now and then... and you're trying to say they're trying to push it TO boring bunkery gameplay?

    forum players are so trash , they actually balance around these players like you and it's sad.

    Herald Condition is not bunker, player behavior is the defining factor on it's ability to bunk. All of it's sustain depends on how the offender will heal the revenant and how stupidly bad will it waste it's conditions on Resistance application if not power, because power has no problem vs Herald Condition.

    EDIT I will list all ways for crev to heal.
    1 Glint heal.
    2 Pulsing regeneration from glint.
    3 Empowering misery
    4 Resistance grants pulsing healing
    5 Breaking stun heals
    6 shield 4 heals
    7 Shield 5 heals
    8 Staff 2 heals
    9 Staff 3 heals
    hmm thats alot of ways to heal.
    odd right? maybe just maybe resistance was not the only reason rev wasnt dying. After all power builds didnt kill them 1v1.

    " All of it's sustain depends on how the offender will heal the revenant and how stupidly bad will it waste it's conditions on Resistance application if not power, because power has no problem vs Herald Condition."
    big lol

    You can put all the heals you want in context, but that's meaningless if you're not also considering the rest of the class functions because Revenant is not readily having all of it's tools available whether you could press them or not. What is Energy anymore, they've even made Gaze of Darkness cooldown subpar to help those in difficulty. It's totally /real/ that Revenant players can do everything you've said without being vulnerable in the slightest, have absolutely 0 opportunity to mess with them at all.

    It's a big lol indeed because I love farming Herald Condition Revs, it was a really laughable fact that people think it's that overpowered, in fact @Master Ketsu.4569 couldn't express it better. It's free real estate. I could only get mad at my team for making it easier on them by blindly doing it all wrong over and over, I'd actually call it throwing to full heal any of them.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Tanbin.2436 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Hmmm a blind blanket reduction not solving balance issues, sounds familiar.

    Perhaps people will never understand, that balance changes are just grinding us closer to a boring homogeneous and useless game...history continues to repeat...we see the same posts all the time...nobody will be satisfied until we all get sticks. Nobody bothers to question why we still have a balance issues...nobody bothers with understanding the methods...it’s all part of a status quo.

    If folks on the forum lived in the matrix, they wouldn’t even think to know to even ask the question

    "Perhaps people will never understand, that balance changes are just grinding us closer to a boring homogeneous and useless game."

    crev meta build was literally designed to boringly defend a point / keep it neutral by doing an endless 1v1 and wait to get +1'd every now and then... and you're trying to say they're trying to push it TO boring bunkery gameplay?

    forum players are so trash , they actually balance around these players like you and it's sad.

    Herald Condition is not bunker, player behavior is the defining factor on it's ability to bunk. All of it's sustain depends on how the offender will heal the revenant and how stupidly bad will it waste it's conditions on Resistance application if not power, because power has no problem vs Herald Condition.

    EDIT I will list all ways for crev to heal.
    1 Glint heal.
    2 Pulsing regeneration from glint.
    3 Empowering misery
    4 Resistance grants pulsing healing
    5 Breaking stun heals
    6 shield 4 heals
    7 Shield 5 heals
    8 Staff 2 heals
    9 Staff 3 heals
    hmm thats alot of ways to heal.
    odd right? maybe just maybe resistance was not the only reason rev wasnt dying. After all power builds didnt kill them 1v1.

    " All of it's sustain depends on how the offender will heal the revenant and how stupidly bad will it waste it's conditions on Resistance application if not power, because power has no problem vs Herald Condition."
    big lol

    You can put all the heals you want in context, but that's meaningless if you're not also considering the rest of the class functions because Revenant is not readily having all of it's tools available whether you could press them or not. What is Energy anymore, they've even made Gaze of Darkness cooldown subpar to help those in difficulty. It's totally /real/ that Revenant players can do everything you've said without being vulnerable in the slightest, have absolutely 0 opportunity to mess with them at all.

    It's a big lol indeed because I love farming Herald Condition Revs, it was a really laughable fact that people think it's that overpowered, in fact @Master Ketsu.4569 couldn't express it better. It's free real estate. I could only get mad at my team for making it easier on them by blindly doing it all wrong over and over, I'd actually call it throwing to full heal any of them.

    whatever.
    you act as if spamming conditions into their resist and attacking their infuse light is the only way to let them win. big lol.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Tanbin.2436 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Hmmm a blind blanket reduction not solving balance issues, sounds familiar.

    Perhaps people will never understand, that balance changes are just grinding us closer to a boring homogeneous and useless game...history continues to repeat...we see the same posts all the time...nobody will be satisfied until we all get sticks. Nobody bothers to question why we still have a balance issues...nobody bothers with understanding the methods...it’s all part of a status quo.

    If folks on the forum lived in the matrix, they wouldn’t even think to know to even ask the question

    "Perhaps people will never understand, that balance changes are just grinding us closer to a boring homogeneous and useless game."

    crev meta build was literally designed to boringly defend a point / keep it neutral by doing an endless 1v1 and wait to get +1'd every now and then... and you're trying to say they're trying to push it TO boring bunkery gameplay?

    forum players are so trash , they actually balance around these players like you and it's sad.

    Herald Condition is not bunker, player behavior is the defining factor on it's ability to bunk. All of it's sustain depends on how the offender will heal the revenant and how stupidly bad will it waste it's conditions on Resistance application if not power, because power has no problem vs Herald Condition.

    EDIT I will list all ways for crev to heal.
    1 Glint heal.
    2 Pulsing regeneration from glint.
    3 Empowering misery
    4 Resistance grants pulsing healing
    5 Breaking stun heals
    6 shield 4 heals
    7 Shield 5 heals
    8 Staff 2 heals
    9 Staff 3 heals
    hmm thats alot of ways to heal.
    odd right? maybe just maybe resistance was not the only reason rev wasnt dying. After all power builds didnt kill them 1v1.

    " All of it's sustain depends on how the offender will heal the revenant and how stupidly bad will it waste it's conditions on Resistance application if not power, because power has no problem vs Herald Condition."
    big lol

    You can put all the heals you want in context, but that's meaningless if you're not also considering the rest of the class functions because Revenant is not readily having all of it's tools available whether you could press them or not. What is Energy anymore, they've even made Gaze of Darkness cooldown subpar to help those in difficulty. It's totally /real/ that Revenant players can do everything you've said without being vulnerable in the slightest, have absolutely 0 opportunity to mess with them at all.

    It's a big lol indeed because I love farming Herald Condition Revs, it was a really laughable fact that people think it's that overpowered, in fact @Master Ketsu.4569 couldn't express it better. It's free real estate. I could only get mad at my team for making it easier on them by blindly doing it all wrong over and over, I'd actually call it throwing to full heal any of them.

    whatever.
    you act as if spamming conditions into their resist and attacking their infuse light is the only way to let them win. big lol.

    Do elaborate on how grand their healing will help them survive any longer when skills actually land on them. Blocking? Evading? This is Guild Wars 2 afterall, time your attacks? Bait evades?

    One CC = Nearly half a energy bar lost. Gaze of Darkness is 25 seconds cooldown. With what pressure will you die when they have NOTHING to spend. You can literally do nothing for 5 seconds and they still will have done less damage to you than anything else in the game autoattacking, biggest surprise is how you can shrug it all off with little effort.

    Support from their team? Why not, that goes for everyone. We're talking those apparent players able to 1v3 far for 10 minutes, it's irrelevant. Because of course if everyone is condition it'll be able to sustain that long without proper plays.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Tanbin.2436 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Hmmm a blind blanket reduction not solving balance issues, sounds familiar.

    Perhaps people will never understand, that balance changes are just grinding us closer to a boring homogeneous and useless game...history continues to repeat...we see the same posts all the time...nobody will be satisfied until we all get sticks. Nobody bothers to question why we still have a balance issues...nobody bothers with understanding the methods...it’s all part of a status quo.

    If folks on the forum lived in the matrix, they wouldn’t even think to know to even ask the question

    "Perhaps people will never understand, that balance changes are just grinding us closer to a boring homogeneous and useless game."

    crev meta build was literally designed to boringly defend a point / keep it neutral by doing an endless 1v1 and wait to get +1'd every now and then... and you're trying to say they're trying to push it TO boring bunkery gameplay?

    forum players are so trash , they actually balance around these players like you and it's sad.

    Herald Condition is not bunker, player behavior is the defining factor on it's ability to bunk. All of it's sustain depends on how the offender will heal the revenant and how stupidly bad will it waste it's conditions on Resistance application if not power, because power has no problem vs Herald Condition.

    EDIT I will list all ways for crev to heal.
    1 Glint heal.
    2 Pulsing regeneration from glint.
    3 Empowering misery
    4 Resistance grants pulsing healing
    5 Breaking stun heals
    6 shield 4 heals
    7 Shield 5 heals
    8 Staff 2 heals
    9 Staff 3 heals
    hmm thats alot of ways to heal.
    odd right? maybe just maybe resistance was not the only reason rev wasnt dying. After all power builds didnt kill them 1v1.

    " All of it's sustain depends on how the offender will heal the revenant and how stupidly bad will it waste it's conditions on Resistance application if not power, because power has no problem vs Herald Condition."
    big lol

    You can put all the heals you want in context, but that's meaningless if you're not also considering the rest of the class functions because Revenant is not readily having all of it's tools available whether you could press them or not. What is Energy anymore, they've even made Gaze of Darkness cooldown subpar to help those in difficulty. It's totally /real/ that Revenant players can do everything you've said without being vulnerable in the slightest, have absolutely 0 opportunity to mess with them at all.

    It's a big lol indeed because I love farming Herald Condition Revs, it was a really laughable fact that people think it's that overpowered, in fact @Master Ketsu.4569 couldn't express it better. It's free real estate. I could only get mad at my team for making it easier on them by blindly doing it all wrong over and over, I'd actually call it throwing to full heal any of them.

    whatever.
    you act as if spamming conditions into their resist and attacking their infuse light is the only way to let them win. big lol.

    Do elaborate on how grand their healing will help them survive any longer when skills actually land on them. Blocking? Evading? This is Guild Wars 2 afterall, time your attacks? Bait evades?

    One CC = Nearly half a energy bar lost. Gaze of Darkness is 25 seconds cooldown. With what pressure will you die when they have NOTHING to spend. You can literally do nothing for 5 seconds and they still will have done less damage to you than anything else in the game autoattacking, biggest surprise is how you can shrug it all off with little effort.

    Support from their team? Why not, that goes for everyone. We're talking those apparent players able to 1v3 far for 10 minutes, it's irrelevant. Because of course if everyone is condition it'll be able to sustain that long without proper plays.

    its almost as if their job wasnt to kill people 1v1 but to never die 1v1.
    there was a reason why everyone started playing this build, it was low effort high reward, with low counterplay.
    and the actual counterplay took so long to implement that its not even worth it half the time.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Tanbin.2436 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Hmmm a blind blanket reduction not solving balance issues, sounds familiar.

    Perhaps people will never understand, that balance changes are just grinding us closer to a boring homogeneous and useless game...history continues to repeat...we see the same posts all the time...nobody will be satisfied until we all get sticks. Nobody bothers to question why we still have a balance issues...nobody bothers with understanding the methods...it’s all part of a status quo.

    If folks on the forum lived in the matrix, they wouldn’t even think to know to even ask the question

    "Perhaps people will never understand, that balance changes are just grinding us closer to a boring homogeneous and useless game."

    crev meta build was literally designed to boringly defend a point / keep it neutral by doing an endless 1v1 and wait to get +1'd every now and then... and you're trying to say they're trying to push it TO boring bunkery gameplay?

    forum players are so trash , they actually balance around these players like you and it's sad.

    Herald Condition is not bunker, player behavior is the defining factor on it's ability to bunk. All of it's sustain depends on how the offender will heal the revenant and how stupidly bad will it waste it's conditions on Resistance application if not power, because power has no problem vs Herald Condition.

    EDIT I will list all ways for crev to heal.
    1 Glint heal.
    2 Pulsing regeneration from glint.
    3 Empowering misery
    4 Resistance grants pulsing healing
    5 Breaking stun heals
    6 shield 4 heals
    7 Shield 5 heals
    8 Staff 2 heals
    9 Staff 3 heals
    hmm thats alot of ways to heal.
    odd right? maybe just maybe resistance was not the only reason rev wasnt dying. After all power builds didnt kill them 1v1.

    " All of it's sustain depends on how the offender will heal the revenant and how stupidly bad will it waste it's conditions on Resistance application if not power, because power has no problem vs Herald Condition."
    big lol

    You can put all the heals you want in context, but that's meaningless if you're not also considering the rest of the class functions because Revenant is not readily having all of it's tools available whether you could press them or not. What is Energy anymore, they've even made Gaze of Darkness cooldown subpar to help those in difficulty. It's totally /real/ that Revenant players can do everything you've said without being vulnerable in the slightest, have absolutely 0 opportunity to mess with them at all.

    It's a big lol indeed because I love farming Herald Condition Revs, it was a really laughable fact that people think it's that overpowered, in fact @Master Ketsu.4569 couldn't express it better. It's free real estate. I could only get mad at my team for making it easier on them by blindly doing it all wrong over and over, I'd actually call it throwing to full heal any of them.

    whatever.
    you act as if spamming conditions into their resist and attacking their infuse light is the only way to let them win. big lol.

    Do elaborate on how grand their healing will help them survive any longer when skills actually land on them. Blocking? Evading? This is Guild Wars 2 afterall, time your attacks? Bait evades?

    One CC = Nearly half a energy bar lost. Gaze of Darkness is 25 seconds cooldown. With what pressure will you die when they have NOTHING to spend. You can literally do nothing for 5 seconds and they still will have done less damage to you than anything else in the game autoattacking, biggest surprise is how you can shrug it all off with little effort.

    Support from their team? Why not, that goes for everyone. We're talking those apparent players able to 1v3 far for 10 minutes, it's irrelevant. Because of course if everyone is condition it'll be able to sustain that long without proper plays.

    its almost as if their job wasnt to kill people 1v1 but to never die 1v1.
    there was a reason why everyone started playing this build, it was low effort high reward, with low counterplay.
    and the actual counterplay took so long to implement that its not even worth it half the time.

    Are we gonna circle back to the 5k heal total they have in weapon skills again?

    you act as if spamming conditions into their resist and attacking their infuse light is the only way to let them win. big lol.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236
    well, combined by fact that most of those skills have sub 20s cd, in addition to mother pulsing healings they get AND 2 healing skills. ye they heal kitten

  • Caine.8204Caine.8204 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caine.8204 said:
    i'm fine with the killing of this spec.

    Like I said, it still works. Only that now you made the 3 traits even more mandatory. So you can congratulate Anet on it rather than properly balancing the issues.

    sounds like it got balanced, then. now you have to spec into maximum resist uptime, where you didn't before and it was still effective? congrats anet, i applaud you for this patch, probably the best one i've seen in awhile. you actually made people have to build into something.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Caine.8204 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caine.8204 said:
    i'm fine with the killing of this spec.

    Like I said, it still works. Only that now you made the 3 traits even more mandatory. So you can congratulate Anet on it rather than properly balancing the issues.

    sounds like it got balanced, then. now you have to spec into maximum resist uptime, where you didn't before and it was still effective? congrats anet, i applaud you for this patch, probably the best one i've seen in awhile. you actually made people have to build into something.

    Because forcing players further more into traiting for Resistance rather than remove it is a /good/ idea. Gj. Kill all the options.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Caine.8204Caine.8204 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2020

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caine.8204 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caine.8204 said:
    i'm fine with the killing of this spec.

    Like I said, it still works. Only that now you made the 3 traits even more mandatory. So you can congratulate Anet on it rather than properly balancing the issues.

    sounds like it got balanced, then. now you have to spec into maximum resist uptime, where you didn't before and it was still effective? congrats anet, i applaud you for this patch, probably the best one i've seen in awhile. you actually made people have to build into something.

    Because forcing players further more into traiting for Resistance rather than remove it is a /good/ idea. Gj. Kill all the options.

    it lays the groundwork for increasing the effectiveness of other traits; so you can choose between taking the 10% damage reduction trait, or torment on chill for example, rather than there being one clear choice (like when the trait was -20% damage when you had resist, it was the obvious choice, now its a choice between bunker or damage)

    if certain trait picks are overperforming, they should get knocked down. it makes the other traits more viable, and increases the options if they bring up the other traits to be more useful.

    the only issue being that they knock down traits, and kill entire playstyles, and then take 6 months to a year to change anything else.

    i'd still rather they kill the entire build, than to leave it OP for another year until they make those adjustments. but obviously, the better solution would be to knockdown the overperforming traits at the same time as buffing underperforming traits.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Caine.8204 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caine.8204 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caine.8204 said:
    i'm fine with the killing of this spec.

    Like I said, it still works. Only that now you made the 3 traits even more mandatory. So you can congratulate Anet on it rather than properly balancing the issues.

    sounds like it got balanced, then. now you have to spec into maximum resist uptime, where you didn't before and it was still effective? congrats anet, i applaud you for this patch, probably the best one i've seen in awhile. you actually made people have to build into something.

    Because forcing players further more into traiting for Resistance rather than remove it is a /good/ idea. Gj. Kill all the options.

    it lays the groundwork for increasing the effectiveness of other traits; so you can choose between taking the 10% damage reduction trait, or torment on chill for example, rather than there being one clear choice (like when the trait was -20% damage when you had resist, it was the obvious choice, now its a choice between bunker or damage)

    if certain trait picks are overperforming, they should get knocked down. it makes the other traits more viable, and increases the options if they bring up the other traits to be more useful.

    the only issue being that they knock down traits, and kill entire playstyles, and then take 6 months to a year to change anything else.

    i'd still rather they kill the entire build, than to leave it OP for another year until they make those adjustments. but obviously, the better solution would be to knockdown the overperforming traits at the same time as buffing underperforming traits.

    Doesn't encourage the use of other traits as it forces players to use the same garbage even more rather than balance them at the source. Kill an entire build? Just to hear the same blabber about Herald in the next week again because nobody learns, hasn't accomplished anything to ctrl-f Resistance in any traits. Make a whole legend based around conditions and it can't even handle those by itself now because it's too hard to redesign it's healing skill and problematic trait the right way.

    There's no reason to pick Corruption even if you wanted to be Condition, they've nerfed Mace and Utilities throughput before that. Strip all offense and remove all defense, while leaving it with it's biggest flaws that forced it's advanced users to play like this in the first place. A true lack of knowledge for display, even Engineer Turrets are more useful than Mallyx in PvP now, really fun times to get canceled for things only the least experienced have done, capitalizing on the fact of not fixing bad design that was hot fixed by this problematic power creep none of the people who actually care about this stance asked for.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • DonNee.5128DonNee.5128 Member ✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caine.8204 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caine.8204 said:
    i'm fine with the killing of this spec.

    Like I said, it still works. Only that now you made the 3 traits even more mandatory. So you can congratulate Anet on it rather than properly balancing the issues.

    sounds like it got balanced, then. now you have to spec into maximum resist uptime, where you didn't before and it was still effective? congrats anet, i applaud you for this patch, probably the best one i've seen in awhile. you actually made people have to build into something.

    Because forcing players further more into traiting for Resistance rather than remove it is a /good/ idea. Gj. Kill all the options.

    the other traits were just as strong and id say now more preferable
    after all, why would you need high resistance uptime in a full power meta

  • CroTiger.7819CroTiger.7819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    Man you didn t played condi build vs condi rev and if you think countering it with condi build without good amount of boon rip is possible than you are delusional. That build still counter condi builds but right now you have some gap to hit with condis so you don t feel uselles. Before this change, chance to kill condi rev was 5% for those condi builds and now is 30% which is good balance because good condi revs will still do their job and bad ones won t faceroll and still win. Yes calling condi build being bad and facerolling while c rev have resistance is next level ignorance because if c rev is good (since i play in plat2+) there is no gap to hit him with condis almost. Other issue is that this build is also good vs power builds. If you think this build is fine deleting 80% + condi builds and countering 50% + of power still than you are used to play op mechanics and op class overall. It finally have counterplay and its not big but its there for condi builds without boon reap. Build was dump and rewarding now it will rq skill to be played properly. Revenant have best diversity and those nerf won t kill it, what killed it was condi rev the faceroll build which deleted any condi build to be viable except mirage if it wasn t hard countered from thief.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CroTiger.7819 said:
    Man you didn t played condi build vs condi rev and if you think countering it with condi build without good amount of boon rip is possible than you are delusional. That build still counter condi builds but right now you have some gap to hit with condis so you don t feel uselles. Before this change, chance to kill condi rev was 5% for those condi builds and now is 30% which is good balance because good condi revs will still do their job and bad ones won t faceroll and still win. Yes calling condi build being bad and facerolling while c rev have resistance is next level ignorance because if c rev is good (since i play in plat2+) there is no gap to hit him with condis almost. Other issue is that this build is also good vs power builds. If you think this build is fine deleting 80% + condi builds and countering 50% + of power still than you are used to play op mechanics and op class overall. It finally have counterplay and its not big but its there for condi builds without boon reap. Build was dump and rewarding now it will rq skill to be played properly. Revenant have best diversity and those nerf won t kill it, what killed it was condi rev the faceroll build which deleted any condi build to be viable except mirage if it wasn t hard countered from thief.

    crev was aids, I legit take cmos that supposedly "counters" them and it doesnt mean jack. since it will take me 1min to kill them or force them off, and at this point we will get +1 and it will decide the fight anyways, guess who does well into +1 and who doesnt? lol.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    @DonNee.5128 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caine.8204 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caine.8204 said:
    i'm fine with the killing of this spec.

    Like I said, it still works. Only that now you made the 3 traits even more mandatory. So you can congratulate Anet on it rather than properly balancing the issues.

    sounds like it got balanced, then. now you have to spec into maximum resist uptime, where you didn't before and it was still effective? congrats anet, i applaud you for this patch, probably the best one i've seen in awhile. you actually made people have to build into something.

    Because forcing players further more into traiting for Resistance rather than remove it is a /good/ idea. Gj. Kill all the options.

    the other traits were just as strong and id say now more preferable
    after all, why would you need high resistance uptime in a full power meta

    That is a dumb conclusion, why destroy what you SHOULD be good at when you can't have it and everything around you at the base of it all counter anyway. More like, why is everyone complaining in the first place.

    If FT, SB were left alone and EM fixed with Resistance along the removal of DD, we'd have resistance based on a pattern which doesn't leave Mallyx or the attacker at an unfair advantage because every 5 seconds durr hurr 2 sec resistance.. To be able transfering at all on Core you'd have to compromise on FT as well, Herald trades a valuable 3 seconds and extra energy instead. This is a balanced decision, all traits being nerfed into oblivion because one overperforms isn't. Renegade is not even a condition option now because there's no way to get any Resistance at all without being a sitting duck, more traits forced into place rather than having choices.

    Think about being designed to take away conditions from your team and weaponize them but have only 4 seconds to do so at best? Sounds good to you? So does to me but Anet is NOT doing it the right way, especially when you're forced to trait for 3 bad traits because your main sustain sucks without one of them. How about removing Resistance spam every 5 seconds and make the healing skill actually GOOD for once.

    Your transfer trait is nerfed in numbers, predictable and you can't have FT with it, SB BARELY accomplish anything with the predictable PP at 1 second, try to be clever and safely transfer when the delay is just as long as the Resistance you get, it misses you're screwed right away without an "extra" second to think which is something a LOT of professions get to have, even the worst. Having to use PA as a safety measure all the time and pray you don't get CC lock and your teammates have anything to get extra Resistance to not die by accomplishing what you were designed for but still do anyway because damage is so intense and with 70% damage reduction, it's not enough to stop the pressure you put on yourself willingly now.

    Carefully look at the trade off required to be effectively not just a condition vacuum without DD, because it's no longer possible to be good at it while keeping damage to a reasonable level with self improvisation, you always had to play your role right to be an effective teamfighter (Surprisingly nobody would do.) and that would only work great against a condition team, not power.

    With all the necros around too, all it takes is one good boon removal and any Mallyx Rev can fall short. The amount of times I've gathered conditions over the 40 stacks threshold to barely counter back with is something I wish I had been seeing before they'd nerf one of my favorite aspect into a pulp, it's not even something people would do, that's just YIKES.

    Anet had one job, they'd butched it like everything else.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @CroTiger.7819 said:
    Man you didn t played condi build vs condi rev and if you think countering it with condi build without good amount of boon rip is possible than you are delusional. That build still counter condi builds but right now you have some gap to hit with condis so you don t feel uselles. Before this change, chance to kill condi rev was 5% for those condi builds and now is 30% which is good balance because good condi revs will still do their job and bad ones won t faceroll and still win. Yes calling condi build being bad and facerolling while c rev have resistance is next level ignorance because if c rev is good (since i play in plat2+) there is no gap to hit him with condis almost. Other issue is that this build is also good vs power builds. If you think this build is fine deleting 80% + condi builds and countering 50% + of power still than you are used to play op mechanics and op class overall. It finally have counterplay and its not big but its there for condi builds without boon reap. Build was dump and rewarding now it will rq skill to be played properly. Revenant have best diversity and those nerf won t kill it, what killed it was condi rev the faceroll build which deleted any condi build to be viable except mirage if it wasn t hard countered from thief.

    crev was aids, I legit take cmos that supposedly "counters" them and it doesnt mean jack. since it will take me 1min to kill them or force them off, and at this point we will get +1 and it will decide the fight anyways, guess who does well into +1 and who doesnt? lol.

    I see this is more like if I can't kill anything in 10 seconds, it's OP.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:
    I see this is more like if I can't kill anything in 10 seconds, it's OP.

    Really? 10 seconds? I mean, most builds can chain together enough defensive cooldowns and dodges to make that impossible outside of a 1-shot. Also, counter-pressure is a thing, right? I've got videos of duels where both myself and my opponent are wearing full glass amulets and those fights still last a good 30 seconds minimum because of these factors.

  • Jasonbdj.4021Jasonbdj.4021 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    Anet could have done a better but the balance team just do not care, there is no passion.

    The balance patch was a joke, look what happen to nerco...we ask for core nerco to be tune down yet they killed off functions unrelated to core then nerf it further due to their poor choices.

    Pointless trying as the Anet's team is a joke, they are not playing the same game and they don't really care.

    I don't main rev and yes I believed coni rev was little op but it doesn't carry, you could tell the difference between a decent one and a faceroller coni rev.

    Theif is running around doing the same or more damage with one skill then someone facerolling their full bar.