Did A-Net deliver "Expansion Tier Content" yet — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Did A-Net deliver "Expansion Tier Content" yet

There are lot of discussions about the Ice Saga.
One of the points people make is that "Expansion like Content" is judged by the players not declared by A-Net.
So i keep it a simple yes or no poll for now.
I know there will be the regular crying "The season is not over yet". But i highly doubt we will get more or different content then what we got so far,
but this is for another time.
I worded it "yet" so please stay away from, we will get this super awesome content everyone is waiting for soon.
We only judge what has been delivered until this point in time

Did A-Net deliver "Expansion Tier Content" yet 214 votes

Yes
19%
WhatLiesBeneath.9018Cerioth.7062dodgerrule.8739Blaeys.3102Svarty.8019Daddicus.6128Blur.3465Cronospere.8143yoni.7015Raknar.4735Vayne.8563Dark Red Killian.3946saye.9304Yamakarasu.8627Hannelore.8153CarolGam.2649sitarskee.5738White Kitsunee.4620Mewcifer.5198Cyanchiv.2583 42 votes
No
80%
Siobhan.6027maddoctor.2738vier.1327Thz.7569Dondarrion.2748Jethro.9376Astralporing.1957IndigoSundown.5419GonzoNeo.4965Loosmaster.8263blambidy.3216cNd.1096Sodeni.6041Karmapolice.4193Curunen.8729RizelStar.3724zealex.9410Asum.4960Ajaxx.3157Aquamarine.3698 172 votes
<13

Comments

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    It wouldn't surprise me if some stuff which was due to come out as part of Icebrood Saga got held back when it became clear players weren't happy without another expansion in the works and Anet decided to make one. That's basically how the entire of HoT worked - they released almost nothing for 9 months so they could bundle up what was effectively a Living World season and sell it as an expansion, but somehow that was better than releasing it gradually for free.

    Danielle Aurorel, Desolation EU. Mini Collector

    "You can run like a river, Till you end up in the sea
    And you run till night is black, And keep on going in your dreams
    And you know all the long while, It's the journey that you seek
    It's the miles of moving forward, With the wind beneath your wings"

  • Zoid.2568Zoid.2568 Member ✭✭✭

    There is an expansion coming, probably 2021 or 2022.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Idk, I think people are far too fixated on that wording. When it was said they had no plans of making an expansion I believe.
    Patches have been faster and they have had content in them that wouldn't have been in the previous seasons. It's just a shame they didn't also include more than one Fractal in the planning so far/already.

    I rather choose death.

  • lokh.2695lokh.2695 Member ✭✭✭✭

    We're only halfway through the seaso...sorry...the saga. At this point it would be better to ask if they delivered half of what people would expect from an expansion.

    Why bother, just delete the official Forum.

  • Solanum.6983Solanum.6983 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    Expansion level content is a lot to live up to, for me the main big thing that comes with an expansion is some new mechanic that changes the game like gliding did with HoT and Mounts with PoF.
    I fully don't and never did expect this saga to bring something that big, even a new mount would have been a huge surprise. For me the problems aren't what they haven't delivered but with what they have. Don't get me wrong, It started off very strong and i was enjoying it up until eye of the north, I still thought the Masteries were pretty much pointless and I hate the aura on enemies but I suppose those are here to stay for the rest of the saga and I'll have to get used to them.
    After that It's been downhill for me with the Story, Metas, Maps - Hopefully it picks up again because I really enjoyed the first few parts.

  • sitarskee.5738sitarskee.5738 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes

    Did ANet deliver new content? Yes, they did. Was it expansion level content? I don't know and who knows really what is "expansion level" content.

    I expected nothing and I didn't get disappointed. I enjoy the new stuff so far, I only wish they cared more about other game modes than story.

  • frareanselm.1925frareanselm.1925 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    Id be very happy if expansion content included new fractals

  • Yes

    If you look at it by episode everyone whines, it’s too short, blah blah blah. Honestly the maps as a while have a good chunk of story when you put 2 episodes together. Want to know what story was very fast? PoF. But looking at the episodes that are out there is plenty to do. I still got a lot from the prologue I haven’t done, still working on runic armor pieces (2 left), and the new stormcaller weapons are going to take me a while to finish up. The amount of weapon sets and armor pieces they have come out for people to craft is very decent compared to last LW episodes and even compared to PoF expansion. Again, not finished, but I’m sure there will be more armors, etc. and a legendary at the end. If you wait til the end of IBS and buy it all up at once, it’s going to be a fairly good amount of content overall.

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    It wouldn't surprise me if some stuff which was due to come out as part of Icebrood Saga got held back when it became clear players weren't happy without another expansion in the works and Anet decided to make one. That's basically how the entire of HoT worked - they released almost nothing for 9 months so they could bundle up what was effectively a Living World season and sell it as an expansion, but somehow that was better than releasing it gradually for free.

    Eh, I take issue with this characterization.

    I 100% agree that there are probably a number of high-impact (and as-yet unfinished) things that were initially planned to get pushed out as part of the Saga, but are now going to be part of the expansion now that the latter is announced.

    That being said, I blame nobody that has serious doubts about ANet's plans to introduce anything that comes even remotely close to the game-changers included in HoT and PoF, when it comes to the Saga. Prior to the waystation that could be placed anywhere in the game world, the essence masteries were exactly like all the other clunkly one-map-only living world masteries, having zero relevance to the game outside their respective maps. The mount stealth mastery of course marks the second Saga mastery to have relevance outside Saga maps, but I feel that was more designed to help deal with Drizzlewood snipers more than anything else.

    So what I'm saying is: I have serious doubts that what we would have received from the entirety of the Saga would come anywhere close to what we got from HoT. Yes, whatever we had would have been released gradually for free, but I don't think it would have been fair to compare it to either of their actual expansions.

  • Yggranya.5201Yggranya.5201 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    @Incar.7358 said:
    Call me old, call me crazy even, but I remember when the only new content that came to games was via expansion packs.

    Free content is free content. I may not like all of it, but I won't argue about what's included, especially knowing there IS an expansion on the way.

    I remember when games came out and they were a full game and had no bugs. If they had bugs, it was too late for regrets, can't update afterwards.

    It's free, but i just complete the story and move on. Can't really complain when it's free, but i will say: Meh. Doing some dull collections is, well, dull. What could be better? At this point in the games life, i really don't know. Maybe when the next expansion comes i will have more interest in GW2 again. Maybe.

  • I have been taking a break from this game aside from a quick login daily but decided to check the forums today. My guess would be they have expansion level content ready that was supposed to be released with the living story. I bet they are holding it for a hyped up new expansion instead of releasing any of it randomly. For example the WvW revamp has got to be close to ready along with new Elite specs.

  • Taril.8619Taril.8619 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    Part of me feels you could bunch an entire LS season / saga into one group and call it an expac and people would be happy ; split an expac into episode and people would call it trash.

    I think one of the issues is that people are already accustomed to Living World content as a free update which provides new maps, new story, new metas, new collections, new achievments etc.

    Meaning when an Expansion does the same thing, they feel disappointed that the product they're shelling out $30 for (That you can't just farm gold to turn into gems to buy like you can with LW episodes you missed) provides just the same content.

    This isn't the case with most other MMO's, which only release things like new maps and achievements and collections to farm with expansions and intermediate content is usually something like a dungeon or raid here and there, maybe a bit of story if the game is focused on story telling (Such as FFXIV) and so these things aren't normalized for players.

    Cat: Meow.

  • Incar.7358Incar.7358 Member ✭✭
    Yes

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @Incar.7358 said:
    Call me old, call me crazy even, but I remember when the only new content that came to games was via expansion packs.

    Free content is free content. I may not like all of it, but I won't argue about what's included, especially knowing there IS an expansion on the way.

    I remember when games came out and they were a full game and had no bugs. If they had bugs, it was too late for regrets, can't update afterwards.

    It's free, but i just complete the story and move on. Can't really complain when it's free, but i will say: Meh. Doing some dull collections is, well, dull. What could be better? At this point in the games life, i really don't know. Maybe when the next expansion comes i will have more interest in GW2 again. Maybe.

    Oh the days, they seem like aeons ago!

  • Zok.4956Zok.4956 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    No, the content of Season 5 / Ice Brood Saga does not look or feel like expansion-content (quality and amount). Not even half an expansion.

    And given Anets anouncement from March 2020 my guess is, that all the "big expansion features", that are not yet released, will not be released as part of Season 5, but will be released as part of the next expansion. Because Anet needs a lot of content/features for the next expansion to convince players to pay money and buy the next expansion.

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    Register and check your guild leaderboard to see who is the best in your guild and who finished achievements first.

  • Yes

    To be fair to Anet, I would include the the Finale of Season 4 which was expansion tier content.

    Season 5 has been roughly comparable to the bulk of past story quality, but has not yet had its own finale. Hard to judge the value of the journey before we know where it is headed or how it ends. Season 5 still has a good chance to be better than Season 4, in the end.

    As for the amount of story/content, even PoF was considered light on content compared to HoT. However," HoT + Season 3" vs "PoF + Season 4" were closer in amount of story/content. I am hoping to compare "Season 5 + New Xpac" to "HoT + Season 3" in amount of content.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No

    @Random Wax Orc.7695 said:
    To be fair to Anet, I would include the the Finale of Season 4 which was expansion tier content.

    Season 5 has been roughly comparable to the bulk of past story quality, but has not yet had its own finale. Hard to judge the value of the journey before we know where it is headed or how it ends. Season 5 still has a good chance to be better than Season 4, in the end.

    As for the amount of story/content, even PoF was considered light on content compared to HoT. However," HoT + Season 3" vs "PoF + Season 4" were closer in amount of story/content. I am hoping to compare "Season 5 + New Xpac" to "HoT + Season 3" in amount of content.

    The problem with this analysis is that it ignores the fact that the "expansion-level" content was supposed to be the payoff for not having an expansion. I get that we've sinced moved on to having another expansion to look forward to. However, if that decision had not been made and an expansion had arrived on schedule, we'd have no need to debate what constitutes "expansion-level" content because we'd already have the expansion!

    It's fair to compare the Icebrood Saga to previous story releases, but we were supposed to see something to "Wow!" us on top of that. Did we get that? In my opinion, no, we didn't. The Icebrood Saga isn't my cup of tea and the extras we've gotten are even less compelling (don't get me started on build templates!). It's a poor performance all around, from my perspective.

    I'm just glad there's an expansion to look forward to at some point, because this isn't doing it for me. Not at all.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes

    To me, a new way to play PvE counts as expansion-like.
    In HoT, the top end players got raids - a new way to play in PvE.
    In PoF, they introduced bounties - a kinda new way of playing PvE.
    With Season 5, we got Strike Missions.

    Is it rather disappointing? yes
    But it's still one type of content that's usually been tied to expansions.

    That aside, Arenanet mentioned expansion-like features, not expansion-like content.
    Apparently, cooking 500 and the Template System Loadout money milker count as expansion-like features.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020
    Yes

    Yes, there's been some quite major changes this season. However, its not quite "expansion level" until we have new Elites specs. I'm hoping they'll bring new Elites towards the end and a new race in the next expo instead of holding off Elites until then.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 15k hours, ~27k AP | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Alisha Kei/Druid(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW)

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    As some might say that it is too early to judge if "saga" had expansion level content - let's not be surprised if there is gonna be a cascade of negativity and disappointment by the end of it.

  • Blockhead Magee.3092Blockhead Magee.3092 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No

    Both their expansions brought in something that fundamentally changed the game. Gliding and then mounts. Nothing they have brought in so far in this saga remotely touches that. This is just living story under a different name.

  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    Looks like the other thread got deleted so I will post my thoughts here. I don't know what expansion tier content means exactly, but I don't consider the IBS to be anywhere near the quality of the previous expansions. If the next expansion is like this I won't be interested in purchasing it. Plans with the IBS may have changed because of layoffs and internal restructuring earlier in the year. Of course the latter parts of the IBS could dramatically shift things but I think this is highly unlikely given the current trend.

  • Kurrilino.2706Kurrilino.2706 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    Did you gusy actually read the OP?

    It was clearly stated that we measure the content until now and not in the future.....
    Most posts are..... "we will get better content in the future"

  • Kurrilino.2706Kurrilino.2706 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020
    No

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    As some might say that it is too early to judge if "saga" had expansion level content - let's not be surprised if there is gonna be a cascade of negativity and disappointment by the end of it.

    My plan was to do another poll at the end of the Saga to see if anything changes to the good or worse and compare it
    to arguments made at this thread.
    The purpose of all that is, if people are really that upset as it seems in the other expansion threads and how valid concerns or praises are
    as well how valid the argument is "Does Anet decides what is expansion content or the player"

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020
    No

    Expansion(like) content to me are things that change up the game to a significant degree, like the introduction of the Elite Specialisation System, the Mastery System, things included there in such as Gliding, Mounts, new gamemodes such as Raids, vast new sets of assets to freshen up the game, the Guild Hall System, possibly a new class, race, support for existing content like new Fractals, Raids, WvW and PvP maps, Guild Missions, System overhauls like the Alliance Sytem, as well as a cohesive Story campaign to dig into across new environments.
    Even PoF was barely half an expansion, but at least it offered Elite Specs, Mounts and an array of new assets and a Story.

    Now I suppose we got a "new" gamemode with Strikes in the LW, and while they are the best and most repeatable thing to come out of the Saga, unfortunately they essentially came in form of a sorry replacement for Raids, so I'm not sure that counts either.

    So no, imo 30 minutes of story content and a few achievements to grind every 3 months does not qualify as expansion level content to me, especially in light of all other avenues of the game being sheer entirely abandoned meanwhile.

    Don't get me wrong, the devs working on these patches do good work and what they put out are great additions to the game, especially for people who mostly enjoy open world grinds and achievement hunting, but it simply doesn't work as sole content for me and many others. It's great filler that has been getting better and things like more ingame earnable cosmetics are appreciated, but it's still filler nonetheless. And that's all we got for way too long without the game really changing and evolving in anyway, like what a good expansion should imo provide.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Zoid.2568Zoid.2568 Member ✭✭✭

    The quality of the content is expansion worthy. The amount of content will probably be expansion amount at the end of the season.

  • No

    Nope. I want gameplay expansions. That is: New ways to play the game. The new zerg doesn't count as an expansion if I'm doing the same things across five characters as the old zerg. More of the same is not something new. New would be Elite Specs, expanding on the concept of minidungeons, finally putting some work into Guild Halls, or officially recognizing a game mode that's not "another arc of the story that not many people care about".

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020
    No

    @Taril.8619 said:
    To be fair, what exactly is "Expansion Level Content"?

    Like, if we look at what LW content is:

    • New maps
    • New items (Inc bunches of Ascended items from vendors)
    • New skins
    • Achievements galore
    • Story
    • Maybe some crafted stuff
    • Additional Masteries
    • Additional Mounts (For LW4 only so far)

    Then we look at what Expansions do:

    • That same stuff
    • Also E-Specs
    • Maybe Legendaries
    • Some new novelty to utilize and monetize (Gliders, Mounts)
    • Maybe something else I'm forgetting?

    The difference between LW content and Expansion content seems to mostly hinge around E-Specs and whatever novelty they're pushing that they can work into creating a bajillion gem store skins for.

    As such, we've not seen any new E-Specs, nor any new novelties. Heck, we haven't even seen anything like a new Mount in IBS (Though I guess that's partially because it's hard for them to powercreep diversify outside of Griffon/Skyscale/Beetle especially with seemingly plans to make Skimmer function underwater)

    Though, given that a 3rd expansion has been announced, I doubt we'll see any of this "Expansion Level Content" during IBS, given that they can just stick it all behind the paywall that is the next Expansion. As that makes more financial sense than the original idea behind the Saga which was to release such content as and when it was done being made (Which given that current episodes are available for free would mean no paywalls on such features beyond players whom start at a later date)

    The only thing LW5 needed to be expansion-level were elite specializations. Those were the bare minimum, and they didn't happen.

    So yeah, it's a big NO.

    @Finalfreefall.8247 said:
    Nope. I want gameplay expansions. That is: New ways to play the game. The new zerg doesn't count as an expansion if I'm doing the same things across five characters as the old zerg. More of the same is not something new. New would be Elite Specs, expanding on the concept of minidungeons, finally putting some work into Guild Halls, or officially recognizing a game mode that's not "another arc of the story that not many people care about".

    This is the exact reason why GW2 has so many problems.

    New ways to play content are more important than new content itself.

  • Raarsi.6798Raarsi.6798 Member ✭✭
    No

    Honestly, if they released a new wave of elite specs and absolutely nothing else sometime before Cantha, I'd change my vote.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The only thing that they haven’t done is added features you’d see in an expansion so I’d say no. Content-wise, they’ve been good so far.

  • serialkicker.5274serialkicker.5274 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020

    @saye.9304 said:
    gw2 still updates the game with good amount of content for free.
    i do not understand the people who are complaining, because all triple A mmos out there, are asking you to pay for content either through sub fee or purchasing it directly.

    You'll just have to accept the fact that some people prefer paid expansions over free content every few months. It simply isn't just about playtime or amount of content that matters. If that was the case, no one would play single player games and buy dlcs and expansion for them, they would all play mmos with "more content and hours to put in".
    These free updates do very little for me. I would prefer to pay 30-50€ for expansion and get game changing features that add replayability and gives me new ways to play the game.

    i did buy content in eso for example and i can say skyrim/greymoor was not worth 40 euro i paid for it.

    And? I got plenty of friends that went from gw2 to ESO, bought all expansion and stayed there, claiming it was worth the money and tried to drag me there. So, your opinion on dlcs of some other game not being worth the money really doesn't matter here.

  • Trise.2865Trise.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020

    @Makuragee.3058 said:
    Except the prologue, no not at all, not even close...

    So... including the prologue, yes they did?

    If we want ANet to step up their game, then we must step up ours.

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020
    No

    EDIT: Just realized how long this post got. Big sorry for the huge chunk of text. :S

    Looking at the LW seasons, comparing them with Expansions. First of all, I define what makes an Expansion in my opinion:

    1. Unique Mastery System that can be (partially) used in all Tyria and makes your life easier.
    2. Separate story that can exist on its own without requiring any pre-story branch being played.
    3. Major villains, a huge organization behind them, an army and some sort of super-secret weapon that can end all Tyria if WE do not stop them.
    4. Detailed maps with unique mechanics and themes, average loot.
    5. Unique skins, new armor-sets, long-term-collections
    6. A full set of Elite Specializations
    7. Maps with replay-value
    8. Secrets, puzzles and lore hidden for those who are curious

    Living World Season 3

    1.) Unique Mastery System that can be (partially) used in all Tyria and makes your life easier. (8/12)

    Counter Magic sort of, mechanics were introduced in Core Tyria as well. (2/2)
    Thermal Propulsion worked in Ember Bay, Draconis Mons, Bitterfrost Frontier, Dragonfall but not core-tyria (1/2)
    Koda's Flame was basically trash, great for looting one map. (1/2)
    Spectral Aid, the most useful LW Mastery so far. Unlocked the 5th Downed Skill, highly overpowered = locked in several places. (2/2)
    Oakheart's Reach, almost useless. Useful in Guildhalls, Draconis Mons and Dragonfall. But especially in Dragonfall it was completely outclassed by the mounts. (1/2)
    Siren of Orr, similar to Koda's Flame. (1/2)

    2.) Separate story that can exist on its own without requiring any pre-story branch being played. (1/3)

    Separate story, yes. (1/1)
    Required HoT playthrough, or you faced spoilers regarding certain locations. (0/1)
    Required HoT playthrough, to navigate on the maps. (0/1)

    3. ) Major villains, a huge organization behind them, an army and some sort of super-secret weapon that can end all Tyria if WE do not stop them. (4/4)

    We had two villains which shared a small connection. (1/1)
    Both had a unique organization behind them. (1/1)
    Both had a dark secret/plan/weapon to harm Tyria. (1/1)
    We succeeded in stopping them. (1/1)

    4.) Detailed maps with unique mechanics and themes, average loot. (3/3)

    Detailed maps. (1/1)
    Unique mechanics, mostly tied to the Mastery System. (1/1)
    Loot overall was great. Still one of the best methods to get ascended trinkets and backpiece with selectable stats. (1/1)

    5.) Unique skins, new armor-sets, long-term-collections (2/3)

    Unique skins, yes. (1/1)
    Armor sets, not really. If you count the Raiding to LW3, maybe? In my opinion, Raids are separate from LW3, featuring a side-story branch. (0/1)
    Long-term-collections? The next gen Legendary weapons. (1/1)

    6.) A full set of Elite Specializations (0/9)

    Error 404

    7.) Maps with replay-value (5/6)

    Only in terms of farming and achievements. It works a lot better nowadays, thanks to the rework of the daily-system. From my perspective, the maps are getting frequently replayed except for Siren's Landing.

    8.) Secrets, puzzles and lore hidden for those who are curious (1/6)

    Bloodstone Fen, nope. (0/1)
    Ember Bay, yes. (1/1)
    Bitterfrost Frontier, nope. (0/1)
    Lake Doric has a few secret areas, but all of them are tied to common collections = you cannot miss them. (0/1)
    Draconis Mons, except for the JP, nope. JP tied to collection. (0/1)
    Siren's Landing, same as Draconis Mons. (0/1)

    Score: (8/12) + (1/3) + (4/4) + (3/3) + (2/3) + (0/9) + (5/6) + (1/6) = (24/46)
    That is barely 52 %.


    Living World Season 4

    1.) Unique Mastery System that can be (partially) used in all Tyria and makes your life easier. (3/3)

    Roller Beetle is a huge mobility upgrade and also received its own mini game-mode with the racing tracks. (1/1)
    Skyscale is mapping in Tyria on Infantile Mode and it can easily break through map-barriers. (1/1)
    Crystal Champion offers new skills for the mounts. (1/1)

    2.) Separate story that can exist on its own without requiring any pre-story branch being played. (0/2)

    It starts right after PoF, but requires you to know the story of PoF. (0/1)
    If you try it with just the Raptor, you run into concrete walls very quickly. (0/1)

    3. ) Major villains, a huge organization behind them, an army and some sort of super-secret weapon that can end all Tyria if WE do not stop them. (5/7)

    Facing three villains with three separate organizations sharing some common ideas. (1/1)
    And alliance of two organizations threatens the population of Tyria, the other one operates remotely. (1/1)
    Secret weapons/plans? (1/2)
    We succeed in stopping them. Well one leader escaped. (2/3)

    4.) Detailed maps with unique mechanics and themes, average loot. (3/3)

    Detailed maps for sure. (1/1)
    Unique mechanics, sadly most of them are considered bugs/annoying by players. (1/1
    Loot is great, but less ascended gear. (1/1)

    5.) Unique skins, new armor-sets, long-term-collections (3/3)

    Unique skins, yes.
    New Armor-Sets, yes.
    Long-term-collections, yes.

    6.) A full set of Elite Specializations (0/9)

    Error 404

    7.) Maps with replay-value (6/6)

    Istan basically became Tarir 2.0. (1/1)
    Sandswept Isles works due to the new daily system. Farming is nice, two well designed meta-events that do not take too long. (1/1)
    Kourna also fits into daily map runs. (1/1)
    Jahai Bluffs, works. (1/1)
    Thunderhead Peaks, two great metas and a nice bonus section with the Dwarven Catacombs. Also tied to Diviner's stats crafting. (1/1)
    Dragonfall has a great meta event. (1/1)

    8.) Secrets, puzzles and lore hidden for those who are curious (1/6)

    Istan, nope. (0/1)
    Sandswept Isles, yes. (1/1)
    Kourna, nope (0/1)
    Jahai Bluffs, nope. Thanks for making everything an achievement. If you run this map with Taco, good luck spotting your character. (0/1)
    Thunderhead Peaks, nope (0/1).
    Dragonfall, nope (0/1).

    Score: (3/3) + (0/2) + (5/7) + (3/3) + (3/3) + (0/9) + (6/6) + (1/6) = (21/39)
    That is barely 54 %.


    Living World Season 5 - Ice Brood Saga

    1.) Unique Mastery System that can be (partially) used in all Tyria and makes your life easier. (1/3)

    Raven Mastery, Bjora Marches only. (0/1)
    Essence Manipulation Mastery, Bjora Marches and Drizzlewood Coast only. (0/1)
    United Legions Waystation Synchronization, yes. (1/1)

    2.) Separate story that can exist on its own without requiring any pre-story branch being played. (3/4)

    Story is unique and does not require basic understanding of PoF or HoT. (1/1)
    You are not revisiting old locations or meeting members from previous branches. (1/1)
    You somehow need masteries of the previous Expansions, but you are not required to have everything unlocked. (1/2)

    3. ) Major villains, a huge organization behind them, an army and some sort of super-secret weapon that can end all Tyria if WE do not stop them. (2/3)

    Two villains who join forces. (1/1)
    Each side has a huge organization on their side. (1/1)
    Secret plan? So far not really. It has been quite obvious from the first moment. Only some minor twists in the story-telling. (0/1)
    We stop them? Cannot say yet. (0/0)

    4.) Detailed maps with unique mechanics and themes, average loot. (3/3)

    Detailed maps for sure. (1/1)
    Unique mechanics. (1/1)
    Loot is great, but less ascended gear. (1/1)

    5.) Unique skins, new armor-sets, long-term-collections (3/3)

    Unique skins, yes.
    New Armor-Sets, yes.
    Long-term-collections, yes.

    6.) A full set of Elite Specializations (0/9)

    Error 404

    7.) Maps with replay-value (6/6)

    Grothmar Valley, not really. You only meet people there who have open collections/achievements. (0/1)
    Bjora Marches, nice meta events and other event chains. Good farming and nice map to explore. (1/1)
    Drizzlewood Coast, farming hell imo. But replay value is great. (1/1)

    8.) Secrets, puzzles and lore hidden for those who are curious (0/3)

    Everything is an achievement or tied to a collection. In addition they added a couple of really annoying drops. Not to mention the new infusion.

    Score: (1/3) + (3/4) + (2/3) + (3/3) + (3/3) + (0/9) + (6/6) + (0/3) = (18/31)
    That is already 58 %.


    We reach scores of 52 %, 54 % and 58 %. Conclusion: No Expansion tier content. But if I compare those three, I see the wheels of progress continue to turn.

  • Kurrilino.2706Kurrilino.2706 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020
    No

    Honestly the story itself isn't that bad.
    It's the gameplay in general. Those Table sitting sessions you can't skip, since you are not part of any descision making anyways.
    And then the mandatory entering the map first, bar filling for 20 minutes to simulate that content is there and way more which makes the playing a
    dull and bad experience overall.

    Beside that absolutely nothing expansion worthy was added. Like skills or specs or even more important a complete themed are.
    All this 1/10 of a map additions per episode destroy the feeling of entering a complete new area.
    Also those new maps serve the purpose of a war against charr only. There is no live to the map, no exploration, no adventure.
    It would be the same if we remove the villages and the cool surrounding in Queensdale because we need a warzone against the centaurs.

  • mercury ranique.2170mercury ranique.2170 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No

    No, instead they changed plans and switched to work on an expansion while also delivering living world episodes (as they did before).

    Plans change, wether or not it would be for the better, I don't care

  • Sarrs.4831Sarrs.4831 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    If ANet wants the saga to be on-par with an expansion content-wise, they should add new elite specs. That's 90% of the fun of a new expansion imo.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020
    No

    Are there new elites?
    Are there new masteries with large impact on the game play?
    Is there a large amount of content that would keep players engaged for months?

    I think the answer to these questions is pretty clear. One map And one hour of story every 3 month is not expansion like or expansion lite content. I can sit here and chastise the masteries. I will keep it at they are the worst among all living seasons. They surely do not remotely come close to HoT or PoF masteries.

    To be fair, I think people people over criticize this. Ya sure, Anet tried to market the “saga” as expansion like, but it is free content, if you own PoF. My main concern is that even by LW standards things are becoming worse.

  • Blueberry.8095Blueberry.8095 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020
    No

    No. To me, expansion level content is something new & innovation. One could argue that the ice brood saga's mastery is expansion level, but to me it's walking on the edge of entering the expansion quality area.

    Firstly, the raven attunement is a fun mini game but serves no purpose outside of 1 map, cannot be rated.

    Secondly the 3 essences manipulation system: the 1st level were existed to gate people from claiming their reward, even if they've started doing content already, but if someone decided to join a strike before knowing that they should unlock the mastery first, it's going to be a waste run, whether what's inside the chest is worthy or not is irrelevant. Also splitting into 3 colours feels to me is like a copy paste twice of the same version with different names, they don't serve special purpose but just to make the grind for mastery last longer. I rate it 0/10. If it's only 1 type of essence, or the 3 types of essences do different things instead of the same thing x3, I could give it a better rating.

    Thirdly, the upgraded essences manipulation system that let you fire kamehameha is a fun idea while on the map, but its poor implementation quickly turns a good idea into something stale. The biggest problem is how clunky the usability of the skill is: because the essesnce has 3 types, you need to build them up, but it takes so much time to gather for each colour, and they wear out really fast, makes you think why do you even bother to build it up. Next you have to constantly be running around to pick the essences up as soon as they drop since they expires rather too quickly, even if you have a full stack, but if you stopped topping them up, it'll drop rather quickly. the skill also do not work well when fighting a group of mixed colour enermy that die fast, it only work well on the bigger bosses. It's also another mastery that cannot be used outside of the specific map and can live without. I rate it 3/10 - too much unnecesary upkeep.

    Fourth, although I dislike yet another consummable that I have to dedicate a slot on my already full shared inventory, I'd give kudos to the waystation system. It's very fun and convenient to have, but I just wish that it's not a portable version but rather it's a permenant skill on the character like gliding and mount skill. I don't really like too much distraction when fighting, it's like instead of killing the mob or pay attention to the mechanics, 1st you have to keep an eye on stacking essesnces (if playing on the latest 2 maps), but now you also have to constantly dropping waystation on a new location and running back & forth if you need to recharge, it's very distraction when you're trying to tag as many mobs as possible or need to do mechanics, but now you also have to pick & recharge the amp in the middle of the fight (or deadly aoe). Neat idea but could be more streamlined to reduce the need to press F constantly. Rating 5/10.

    Fifth, the cohesiveness and consistency between each chapter and map is not up to standard. To me, instead of dropping content more frequently but only half of the content each time, I'd rather them take longer time to release each chapter. That way, the meta on both halves of the map won't feel disconnect or doesn't join well, or players don't have to guess what items do they need to horde in case of a next tier collection. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think players were asking for new content on the older map, instead of a new map that cuts into half? The other consistency issue is that the meta/reward system is very different for each chapter. I'm not sure how to describe it better but the consistency across the whole saga just isn't the same as the HoT/PoF which you could tell that they're a bundle. I'm not sure how to rate this because I don't know if I should rate it as an expansion bundle, or rate it as an individual chapter.

    Sixth, it's too grindy for a short chapter. I'm not refering to grindy as in there are so much content to do, but it's grindy as in they purposely turn every little thing/event/chore into achivement, like shoot the balls/kill certain enermy/destroy the tent/complete the meta/etc..., anything that you can think of, you need to do them 23978201984 number of times for each achivement. Granted if you pack your charater's life and moved there for a certain period of time, it isn't hard to complete, but then... omg, the special mission unlocking... If it's a prerequisite to unlock a precious collection like the Otter, fine, but then, we're talking about unlocking boring achivement for zero AP.... So it's like no matter how long you've spent on the map grinding like there's no tomorrow it doesn't matter, you're only grinding to 'unlock' achivement before you can start the actual grind, really? After each 2 and a half to 3 hours full meta from south to north, I was only able to unlock one special mission. ONE!!! Grindy for the prestige item like the Otter is reasonable, but grinding to unlock a normal achivement to grind for it again.... left a bad taste to my mouth. I know that the special mission doesn't have anything to do with the meta, but still, if you're an achivement hunter/completionist, it'll break you and that's the point when you decide that you want to stop carring to tick off achievement. I rate this -10/10 (as in minus 10).

    Seventh, why is the weapon collection part of the meta achivement? Shouldn't them belong to the collection tab under basic/weapon category? Also I think JP achivement should be in the JP tab. Cannot be rated since it's something minor.

    Eight, the strike mission. This could qualified as an expansion level content (but when you think of it, it's also a trimmed verison of raid), I like it, I just wish that the reward system can be simplified instead of the multiple layer of things before you can get the reward: unlocking the reward by running each mission once (this one is fair), then the 3 colour system which rotates for each week (so if you're too busy for strike 1 of the week, the crystals going to be imbalance), then convert the smaller crystals into the bigger crystals then into token and use that token to buy the armor, instead of straight using the crystal to to buy what you want directly? Also apparently now you have a different currency for boneskinner? It really could just adopt the raid system and make things simple.... Rate 7/10 - love the some of strike (the shorter one), not a fan of the currency system for it.

    Ninth, some metas in Saga are fine, but some are not, but my biggest issue is that they take very long to for you to reach your final reward. The metas in HoT/PoF aren't very long, but they also felt fun and rewarding, looting was also an ease on the same location with plenty for time given. Because they're short, you can jump from one meta to another, even take a break in between; however, the Saga's meta seems to be very draggy and they felt like the meta in each map has their own 'trial system' not in a good way (each feels like a beta that wanted to try something but if it doesn't work, they'll do something new on the next map). Grothmar's meta was fun (best in Saga), but the failing point was that it needed 4 keys (one from each meta) to unlock the vault, athough right now they're giving you 1 free key from the chest, but overall it still take too much effort and too long to be able to open the vault and the end reward isn't really worth grindy for either. Bjora is just.. mediocre at best. Drakkar was fine but it doesn't scale well, if less people is doing the boss, it's destined to fail, even if it has a 0.00001% chance for an rare item, I don't think the failing after half an hour is worth doing. Drizzlewood is great, I love the meta, but it's way too long, and the starting of one meta is depending on the completion of another meta. Best duration from South to North took me 2 and a half hour, I've had been in a map took longer than that (up to 3 hours?) which is 2 hours too long, it should be kept under an hour (most efficient score) as a whole if both metas should combine. Also the rushing for chests twice after each meta is just.... exhausting, I don't even understand why they don't give you enough time to loot after the North meta. I'm also not a fan of scattered chests & shards that spawn in the heart of enermy, you could easily get engaged and waste some time before you can re-mount again and lost some time there. Some shards are also spawn right in the middle of the river that kills you... Overall rating for metas, may be 5/10 - there's potential to be a quality content, but so much adjusment needs to be made before they're amazing.

    tl;dr: the potential of the expansion quality might be there due to 1 of 2 good ideas, but it's overall felt like it's the same thing rebranded with a different name (I wouldn't count strike as something new and innovative because it's serving as a trimmed verison of raid) and massive inconsistency in between each chapters. A lot of adjustment needs to be made and the reward structure, the meta system, the achivement system should feel cohesive instead of being all over the place. Waystation is new but it along is not enough to carry the whole Saga to meet the expansion level.

  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No

    For me expansions do two major things that have not been done.
    1.) New Elite Specs or A New Weapon. Way to change gameplay up with something new.
    2.) Mastery points that impact all zones. HOT had all the gilding, POT had mounts. These things are used everyone and made you fee like you progressed. Living season is almost always tied to the area.

    Based on the above. It is not close. Living Season 4 offered more Expansion type content with Roller Beetle, Skyscale, and mastery for me. So far we have a lesser LS4.

    Content wise we are not there yet. The only thing this does that dwarfs other content is optimized frame rate drops. Once I get the remaining mastery points I will be going back to previous zones.

  • Trise.2865Trise.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Considering that "Expansion Level Content" is utterly meaningless... Both.

    If we want ANet to step up their game, then we must step up ours.

  • Mewcifer.5198Mewcifer.5198 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes

    @Incar.7358 said:
    Call me old, call me crazy even, but I remember when the only new content that came to games was via expansion packs.

    Free content is free content. I may not like all of it, but I won't argue about what's included, especially knowing there IS an expansion on the way.

    Yeah, same here. Regular free updates is a relatively new concept in video gaming, especially in MMOs.

    People want things like mounts and gliders added. But it's hard to add things like mounts or gliders to living story because you will have people complaining about how they are locked out of it and need to buy previous episodes or else they can't continue the story because they need that gimmick.

    I do wish they made the icebrood saga mastery tracks more useful in all maps though, not just the ones associated with the story. The LW4 masteries mostly improved mounts and so they were useful everywhere and was a step in the right direction. But then they took steps back in LW3's direction with the latest masteries (with the exception of the mount stealth)

    I think the devs and the players had different idea's about what "expansion level content" meant.
    Think about previous living world, most of the living stories were bridges in content rather than a full story themselves.

    -LW1 was wonky in that anet wasn't originally planning on doing expansions so they tried to make the living world be a full plot. But they realized that the transient nature of it made that hard to do since you can't expect people to care as much about a story they missed the beginning of.
    -So LW2 they switched things up a bit and made things instanced again. And LW2 wasn't it's own plotline. It was a leadup into the first expansion.
    -LW3 had subplots but for the most part it was also a lead up to an expansion. It was like how TV shows will often have a lull between major story arcs. Things happened, they were interesting, but in the end it was all lead up into Path of fire.
    -Lw4's things get a little different since this is where anet was thinking about not doing any more expansions. They wanted to tie up the loose end of Joko, but we also couldn't ignore Kralk. The writers didn't seem to think they could pull enough content from kralk to justify an entire season. But imho they probably could have managed enough for both to give them each one season. But I cant also say I know what I would have added in order to do that, so I can't judge. But overall the season looked like they were preparing for a new campaign to begin like how previous seasons prepared for expansions.

    So I think to Anet "Expansion level content" is more about the fact that its a whole campaign of a story. Not a subplot, not a series of smaller events that prepare us for the next campaign. They wanted icebrood saga to be a large overarching, world changing plotline on par with fighting zhaitan, mordremoth, or balthazar.

    But to players "Expansion level content" was about new gimmicks, new elite specs, new maps, etc. They imagined expansion to be about the mechanics because "well story is in the living world too". They wanted icebrood saga to add new mechanics that would create considerable changes in the game.

    My list of suggestions for GW2
    Max Masteries | 19k AP

  • No

    @mercury ranique.2170 said:
    No, instead they changed plans and switched to work on an expansion while also delivering living world episodes (as they did before).

    Oh frack. Can't believe I never noticed that.

  • Taril.8619Taril.8619 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    @Mewcifer.5198 said:
    So I think to Anet "Expansion level content" is more about the fact that its a whole campaign of a story. Not a subplot, not a series of smaller events that prepare us for the next campaign. They wanted icebrood saga to be a large overarching, world changing plotline on par with fighting zhaitan, mordremoth, or balthazar.

    But to players "Expansion level content" was about new gimmicks, new elite specs, new maps, etc. They imagined expansion to be about the mechanics because "well story is in the living world too". They wanted icebrood saga to add new mechanics that would create considerable changes in the game.

    It's worth noting, that the devs did talk about adding in the new features that players would consider "Expansion level content" into IBS as and when they were ready.

    Just, that they eventually changed their minds and decided to work on an actual expansion (Which is likely to have whatever "Expansion level content" features that are currently or soon to be ready to implement put into it)

    It's probably a good thing that they do so as well. Since after Build Templates, I'd hate to see what would happen to something like E-Specs released during IBS...

    2000 gems on gem store "Unlock the newest E-Spec for a character"
    1000 gems on gem store "Get the newest E-Spec's weapon and collection to upgrade it to Ascended quality for a character"
    5000 gems bundle on gem store "Get a level 80 boost token, unlock the newest E-Spec and get a set of Exotic gear fully slotted with the new E-Spec Runes for a character (This is 10,000 gems worth of items)"

    I'd take the $30 expansion to get all E-Specs, new gimmicks, masteries, maps etc. For all characters, than risk them trying to milk out more individual character items on gem store...

    Cat: Meow.