Why do they not fix engi? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Why do they not fix engi?

Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭
edited August 1, 2020 in PVP

This class in PvP is absurd. Can't fathom how broken it is compared to other builds. And it's been like this for a very long time.
Just spams so much buffs on itself, has unbelievable dmg output, even gets shields and blocks and everything. Sustain equals out dmg with no efford. The range on holo sword is beyond reasonable too. And nades, what even are these dmg numbers.
It's so obviously broken, tanky and strong at the same time, why is this not fixed since yesterday?
Some people don't even bother with playing something diverse, just spam flamethrower 1 and running around. Then go into tiny form and troll on point.
Seriously what is this rubbish balance?

<1

Comments

  • Noah Salazar.5430Noah Salazar.5430 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020

    yeh it's slowly geting balanced
    but no holo aren't that much strong, scrapper right now is much stronger than holo, but pick rate of scrapper arent that hight yet, and most scrapper don't know how to build it to be strong
    if you don't belive me than prob you never got 2-3 shoted from stealth with Thunderclap+Granade barage+Sharpnel granade+Electo wirl if somone live yet all that on 11-18 might before even fight start

  • @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    Boonbeast was only good for quite seriously "a season or two" and it that was a side node thing. After they gutted Boonbeast, which didn't take long, Soulbeasts had to start running full DPS builds. Ranger went for literally "years" without having any build that was solid enough to compete seriously for top 50 slots or to be used in any serious MAT team. Then we had a short season or two of Core Ranger play, which was recent. And that build was good enough to dominate side node play and be considered for use in top tier play. But even then, half the community claimed that Holosmith was every bit the equal to a Core Ranger on a side node.

    I was just using boonbeast as an example >.>

    @White Kitsunee.4620 said:
    That is to say that holo has always been the second best build or the third best build .

    This is what I meant. Holo always played second fiddle to boonbeast, mirage, shatter mesmer, ect.
    Whatever the fotm S+ spec was holo was always behind it. Which is why It was never gutted like mesmer or scourge got.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020

    Photon forge being 9s CD would be unbearable. All that needs to happens is explosive entrance needs to be hard nerfed and enhanced capacity storage unit should give less might. Holo is only an issue because it can randomly 1 shot you still, due to might stacking and explosive entrance on top of all it's kitchen sink utility it has. The core part of the spec isn't imbalanced. However, without this burst holo will probably be as unviable as DPS tempest/weavers due to power rev and any thief spec insta deleting you from the game and making you unable to contribute as you spam kite and play jump puzzles all game trying desperately to survive. That's more of a power rev and thief being obscenely broken thing, though.

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 2, 2020

    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2, 2020

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

    I mean, flamethrower scrapper finally has become kinda viable (pretty sure it still isn't in high tier PvP, tho).
    Scrapper got several traits to ensure the synergy with that kit and also we can finally really utilise the juggernaut grandmaster trait, since camping flamethrower is not such a big no go anymore.

    I can agree that the damage could get toned down a bit, but I would like to still preserve flamethrower scrapper viable.

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

    I mean, flamethrower scrapper finally has become kinda viable (pretty sure it still isn't in high tier PvP, tho).
    Scrapper got several traits to ensure the synergy with that kit and also we can finally really utilise the juggernaut grandmaster trait, since camping flamethrower is not such a big no go anymore.

    I can agree that the damage could get toned down a bit, but I would like to still preserve flamethrower scrapper viable.

    Its broken, not viable.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Clyan.1593 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

    I mean, flamethrower scrapper finally has become kinda viable (pretty sure it still isn't in high tier PvP, tho).
    Scrapper got several traits to ensure the synergy with that kit and also we can finally really utilise the juggernaut grandmaster trait, since camping flamethrower is not such a big no go anymore.

    I can agree that the damage could get toned down a bit, but I would like to still preserve flamethrower scrapper viable.

    Its broken, not viable.

    Maybe they could shift around some damage?
    For example, reduce the power coefficient of the auto attack and give flame blast (skill 2) some of the power coefficient back?
    This would require the engineer to hit a skillshot to regain some of their damage.

  • Bingus.4236Bingus.4236 Member ✭✭

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

    Why would someone try to revive an ally that was getting attacked by another player? Also, I wouldn't stand there flaming a downed player if there was another enemy about, I'd use the function gyro or the flame wall instead and then carry on fighting.

    I often get highest damage stat on my team but I have to supplement flamethrower with scrapper actions to get it. Certainly can't get it by spamming 1.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:
    What I don't understand is 4 elixir procs in alchemy spec. I thought that warr was very reliant on its stance procs, but engi swims in free boons and sustain by just being in combat.

    Where do you get the number 4 from?
    Lesser elixir b, lesser elixir c, elixir e.... that's 3 elixir procs in alchemy. What's the 4th?

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 3, 2020

    @Bingus.4236 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

    Why would someone try to revive an ally that was getting attacked by another player? Also, I wouldn't stand there flaming a downed player if there was another enemy about, I'd use the function gyro or the flame wall instead and then carry on fighting.

    I often get highest damage stat on my team but I have to supplement flamethrower with scrapper actions to get it. Certainly can't get it by spamming 1.

    Just that spamming a single skill doesnt usually work when someone is reviving. You miss the whole point going in full defense of a very obviously broken build.
    Also I dont care about stats, that's not the issue here, another one where you clearly try to derange the thopic into a defensive stance on behalf of engis.
    Engi is far too strong, the whole pvp section knows, except of course some people who accidently enjoy playing this prof.

  • kybraga.7103kybraga.7103 Member ✭✭✭

    "Why don't they fix Engineer?"

    Because everyone is biased and it's hard to tell if someone is just complaining because it counters them/serves a strong role or if it's just that incredibly busted. I think the main issue right now is that Flashbang just gives an easy blind/daze without sacrificing any damage. Just low the damage significantly when traiting for Flashbang. Easy.

    'But wait, X this and Y that.'

    Woo-wee. PvP is fun. :tongue:

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 3, 2020

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

    It dies instantly when focused, though. It's just super unfun to fight as a lot of builds and shouldn't have passive staiblity when stability is so rare now.

    @steki.1478 said:
    What I don't understand is 4 elixir procs in alchemy spec. I thought that warr was very reliant on its stance procs, but engi swims in free boons and sustain by just being in combat.

    It's not really just the alchemy tree, it's because they run elixir H and that + toss elixir is a ton of different boons at all times. Combine that with elixir U + alchemy tree and it seems holo just runs around with infinite boons at all times. It doesn't actually, the only boon that's an issue is the high stacks of might.

    Alchemy tratline is silly, though. A pure passive non-interactive trait line like alchemy is pretty boring. The only good traits are HGH and purity of purpose because you have to press buttons to interact with them, the othet ones all need to be completely revamped imo.

    It doesn't help that inventions is really weird and not helpful most of the time unless you run very specific traits and weapons(shield and scrapper, mainly) and tools is very very underwhelming outside of it's grandmaster traits and CDR on toolbelt skills. Firearms is a great tree for condi, but not so much for power. I'd say it's pretty BAD for power and alchemy ends up being better offensively AND defensively for power. This is why holo ends up taking alchemy.

    Explosives have the same issue, where it's not only better defensively, but also offensively than tools and inventions. It makes no sense.

    They need to buff inventions and tools to be competitive with alchemy and rework alchemy entirely outside of HGH and PoP, imo.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @White Kitsunee.4620 said:
    If you're wondering why Holo has never been gutted its because historically holo has always been the A to the meta's S+ boonbeast.
    That is to say that holo has always been the second best build or the third best build .
    Second nerfing holo is kinda hard. Since the point of holo is to have high melee cleave damage. Something engineer doesn't really have outside of holo.
    So nerfing it is to nerf its niche.

    Also holo has been nerfed 2 patches in a row now. You guys are just being silly.

    Dude that's actually pretty inaccurate.

    Boonbeast was only good for quite seriously "a season or two" and it that was a side node thing. After they gutted Boonbeast, which didn't take long, Soulbeasts had to start running full DPS builds. Ranger went for literally "years" without having any build that was solid enough to compete seriously for top 50 slots or to be used in any serious MAT team. Then we had a short season or two of Core Ranger play, which was recent

    There was actually a soulbeast who played it right when it came out with a unique dps build that hit rank 1 briefly and later secured a rank 3 title with it. Imo some of the thing in soulbeast were always real diamonds- like fresh reinforcement at least with 2 pets was one of the most insane things I’ve seen in gw2. Sadly these things to nerf on ranger stick out like sore thumbs so it gets nerfed to oblivion when they realize it. Meanwhile engi is constantly either meta or in sleeper mode for meta, which was been true for core ranger now and I’m not sure what they could nerf on ranger so maybe the tables have turned, though I doubt it or at least in severity

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    It dies instantly when focused, though. It's just super unfun to fight as a lot of builds and shouldn't have passive staiblity when stability is so rare now.

    The question is: what do you want to replace the stability with?
    Juggernaut has been around since the release of the game and it always provided permanent stability while using the flamethrower.

    The other side effects changed, like it used to give 200 toughness, but was also reducing your movement speed by 50%. Now it gives might and increases might duration.
    But the stability has always been an integral part of the identity of the flamethrower, it just happened that almost the entire existence of this game this couldn't really get utilised, since camping flamethrower was just terrible.

    And if you want to replace the stability, then we also would need yet another rework of scrapper. You can't tell me that mass momentum, object in motion and applied force haven't been designed with flamethrower in mind. The synergy with the juggernaut trait is just way too good to not be intentional.

  • anjo.6143anjo.6143 Member ✭✭✭

    I made a holo and Im playing like holo nades, it is WAY OP, so much broken, just like rev.
    3 sets of weapon, tank, short cd heal, high damage, high speed, stealth, tornado op, it is just crazy, lol

  • Bingus.4236Bingus.4236 Member ✭✭
    edited August 4, 2020

    @Clyan.1593 said:

    @Bingus.4236 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

    Why would someone try to revive an ally that was getting attacked by another player? Also, I wouldn't stand there flaming a downed player if there was another enemy about, I'd use the function gyro or the flame wall instead and then carry on fighting.

    I often get highest damage stat on my team but I have to supplement flamethrower with scrapper actions to get it. Certainly can't get it by spamming 1.

    Just that spamming a single skill doesnt usually work when someone is reviving. You miss the whole point going in full defense of a very obviously broken build.
    Also I dont care about stats, that's not the issue here, another one where you clearly try to derange the thopic into a defensive stance on behalf of engis.
    Engi is far too strong, the whole pvp section knows, except of course some people who accidently enjoy playing this prof.

    You try and res someone when there is an enemy attacking, you die. I don't even know why you are talking about spamming a skill that slow. Have you even used it yourself?

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bingus.4236 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:

    @Bingus.4236 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

    Why would someone try to revive an ally that was getting attacked by another player? Also, I wouldn't stand there flaming a downed player if there was another enemy about, I'd use the function gyro or the flame wall instead and then carry on fighting.

    I often get highest damage stat on my team but I have to supplement flamethrower with scrapper actions to get it. Certainly can't get it by spamming 1.

    Just that spamming a single skill doesnt usually work when someone is reviving. You miss the whole point going in full defense of a very obviously broken build.
    Also I dont care about stats, that's not the issue here, another one where you clearly try to derange the thopic into a defensive stance on behalf of engis.
    Engi is far too strong, the whole pvp section knows, except of course some people who accidently enjoy playing this prof.

    You try and res someone when there is an enemy attacking, you die. I don't even know why you are talking about spamming a skill that slow. Have you even used it yourself?

    Ok, I repeat. Other classes cannot spam a single skill and kill both the downed and the reviving player. You again are missing my point. Seems to me you are either stubborn or just in total denial because I call out the nonsense of engi "balance".

    Beside your question is completely stupid. It's not like rezzing midfight is the rarest thing in pvp, it's actually the opposite.

  • Bingus.4236Bingus.4236 Member ✭✭

    @Clyan.1593 said:

    @Bingus.4236 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:

    @Bingus.4236 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

    Why would someone try to revive an ally that was getting attacked by another player? Also, I wouldn't stand there flaming a downed player if there was another enemy about, I'd use the function gyro or the flame wall instead and then carry on fighting.

    I often get highest damage stat on my team but I have to supplement flamethrower with scrapper actions to get it. Certainly can't get it by spamming 1.

    Just that spamming a single skill doesnt usually work when someone is reviving. You miss the whole point going in full defense of a very obviously broken build.
    Also I dont care about stats, that's not the issue here, another one where you clearly try to derange the thopic into a defensive stance on behalf of engis.
    Engi is far too strong, the whole pvp section knows, except of course some people who accidently enjoy playing this prof.

    You try and res someone when there is an enemy attacking, you die. I don't even know why you are talking about spamming a skill that slow. Have you even used it yourself?

    Ok, I repeat. Other classes cannot spam a single skill and kill both the downed and the reviving player. You again are missing my point. Seems to me you are either stubborn or just in total denial because I call out the nonsense of engi "balance".

    Beside your question is completely stupid. It's not like rezzing midfight is the rarest thing in pvp, it's actually the opposite.

    I didn't say resing midfight was rare. I've seen a fair few people resing midfight, often getting killed because of bad situational awareness. Odd to see someone making out they were in the right for it and it's the fault of a "broken build" on a thread though. What's broken is the idea of wanting to homogenise something because you can't/won't adapt to it.

  • @Clyan.1593 said:
    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

    The FT autoatack is the only atack on ft, is easy to counter and FT is kinda bugy , it can't hit aniting below or above you, just chain cc and engi is dead.

    engi is only good on pvp due the poor playerbase skill , if you want to play engi u need godlike hands or u're kitten dead even on Open world, on everything else outside pvp and healscrapper engi is nerfed to the ground.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Looks like someone doesn't know that balance in this game isn't about performance.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Tbh I really enjoy reading threads like this with "nerf engi" theme and then seeing all those ppl with engi icon on avatar trying to hide how broken it is rn, or agreeing that its 'a little bit too OP, it might need a slight dmg nerf". Almost like biased warrior threads back in the day.

    PS: EE, Flashbang, nades. Just at least pretend that you need to push some buttons instead of getting carried by passives.

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons
    25.02.2020 edit - Nevermind, now I spam only 29 skill-buttons

  • I hope you guys realize that when grenades are nerfed into uselessness, core literally has close to 0 viable kits for sPvP. Bomb kit? Garbage in sPvP. Flamethrower? A meme kit only for scrappers. Elixirgun? More of a utility weapon with supplemental dmg, which won't cut it for core engi with its mediocre weapon options. Toolkit? Another meme tbh. Has its niche uses but not viable as main source of dmg and easily countered. Mortar kit is still very good on the other hand, but relying on that for all your damage makes you predictable, slow and clunky. Plus, it synergizes a lot better with scrapper imo.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Koensol.5860 said:
    I hope you guys realize that when grenades are nerfed into uselessness, core literally has close to 0 viable kits for sPvP. Bomb kit? Garbage in sPvP. Flamethrower? A meme kit only for scrappers. Elixirgun? More of a utility weapon with supplemental dmg, which won't cut it for core engi with its mediocre weapon options. Toolkit? Another meme tbh. Has its niche uses but not viable as main source of dmg and easily countered. Mortar kit is still very good on the other hand, but relying on that for all your damage makes you predictable, slow and clunky. Plus, it synergizes a lot better with scrapper imo.

    That is what you get when the main mechanic of the class is also given to the elite whiteout much changes, so core will suck compared to its elites, even though there might some cool viable builds for core, they will be outshined by holo or scrapper cause they get more net positive out core traitlines while getting extra mechanic + the core toolbelt skills.
    Necro is the best example on how elites should work, the main mechanic still requires the same resource but the skills of it are changed for all elite specks, so core, reaper and scourge play differently from each other.
    Engi is the worst offender in the elite design, the elites are just total upgrades and are just better to use them over running core, but at least both elites are work while other professions don't have a single build of any kind that is functional, and the whining about core engi is just greedy at this point.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Koensol.5860 said:
    I hope you guys realize that when grenades are nerfed into uselessness, core literally has close to 0 viable kits for sPvP. Bomb kit? Garbage in sPvP. Flamethrower? A meme kit only for scrappers. Elixirgun? More of a utility weapon with supplemental dmg, which won't cut it for core engi with its mediocre weapon options. Toolkit? Another meme tbh. Has its niche uses but not viable as main source of dmg and easily countered. Mortar kit is still very good on the other hand, but relying on that for all your damage makes you predictable, slow and clunky. Plus, it synergizes a lot better with scrapper imo.

    That is what you get when the main mechanic of the class is also given to the elite whiteout much changes, so core will suck compared to its elites, even though there might some cool viable builds for core, they will be outshined by holo or scrapper cause they get more net positive out core traitlines while getting extra mechanic + the core toolbelt skills.
    Necro is the best example on how elites should work, the main mechanic still requires the same resource but the skills of it are changed for all elite specks, so core, reaper and scourge play differently from each other.
    Engi is the worst offender in the elite design, the elites are just total upgrades and are just better to use them over running core, but at least both elites are work while other professions don't have a single build of any kind that is functional, and the whining about core engi is just greedy at this point.

    The question is: how else can they handle this?

    It is easy to replace necromancer's death shroud with another mechanic with equal value, since it is so static.
    Engineer's class mechanic is highly customizable, since our toolbelt skills are changing based on the utility skills we take.

    For example, someone suggested in the past that holosmith should lose the entire toolbelt and replace it with the photon forge mechanic. They would have to buff photon forge by unrealistic amounts to make that trade off worth it, since holosmith would lose tons of skills by losing the toolbelt skills. Some utility skills on engineer are even solely taken because of the associated toolbelt skill, like rifle turret.

    You can't just do what they did with chronomancer and give the engineer elite specs a new fixed set of toolbelt skills, since the customization you get from core engi would always be way more worth it as long as you don't make the elite toolbelt skills absolutely ridiculous.

    So what they need to do is giving elite toolbelt skills, which are replaced for the elite specs, something that actually makes them desired that it hurts that you can't use them.

  • wasss.1208wasss.1208 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Nerf EE, Flashbang, and Nades so the mob can stop complaining.

    That is until holos start running toolkit. Then they can complain about the 1200 range pull, Multiple blocks, and prybar melting their health bar while applying confusion.
    Either that or they can unironically run bomb kit for the fun and interactive Smoke Bomb + Flashbang + Flash Shell combo. Then people will complain that they spam too many AoE blinds on node.

    The funny thing is, it is already happening. Some holos already dropped Grenade Kit for Elixir Gun. It balances out their weakness against condi pressure, and lets them win any point easily, by throwing Acid Bomb on point. So your tl;dr is pretty accurate. For Engineer to be "fixed", and viable with all 3 specs, and to not feel gimmicky, they have to rework multiple traits/traitlines.

  • @Widmo.3186 said:
    Tbh I really enjoy reading threads like this with "nerf engi" theme and then seeing all those ppl with engi icon on avatar trying to hide how broken it is rn, or agreeing that its 'a little bit too OP, it might need a slight dmg nerf". Almost like biased warrior threads back in the day.

    PS: EE, Flashbang, nades. Just at least pretend that you need to push some buttons instead of getting carried by passives.

    If they nerfed all these things, then the same people would be on here the following week about another class they can't figure out how to beat. This is how forum feedback works. What would be a QoL improvement for people is when a team loses a match, a window automatically pops up for them to complain about what they feel is "broken" and OP.

  • MrForz.1953MrForz.1953 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Holo is loaded, it's always been loaded, and it needs some strong nerfs, real nerfs. They can go ahead and put Photon Forge from a 5s CD to a 9s CD. That'd be a great start.

    Hmm. Nah, succumb to the mob and nerf grenades. So that they may be stomped by the next abilities the Holosmith traitline is carrying next and completely miss the point.

    Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Pirate - Jade Quarry

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Could static shield get the shocking aura treatment? Like only stun oce every 2 seconds or (accounting for the shorter duration) 1.5 seconds or so? It shuts down any team fight AoEs instantly even with stability on.

    Ah, well. There are so many things on holo in need of tweaks/nerfs/changes, this might coma later on the list. This one even got buffed last patch after all because... uhm... noone used shield? :lol:

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    This class in PvP is absurd. Can't fathom how broken it is compared to other builds. And it's been like this for a very long time.
    Just spams so much buffs on itself, has unbelievable dmg output, even gets shields and blocks and everything. Sustain equals out dmg with no efford. The range on holo sword is beyond reasonable too. And nades, what even are these dmg numbers.
    It's so obviously broken, tanky and strong at the same time, why is this not fixed since yesterday?
    Some people don't even bother with playing something diverse, just spam flamethrower 1 and running around. Then go into tiny form and troll on point.
    Seriously what is this rubbish balance?

    No effort? This is a lie.
    When you play FT, you need to sacrifice a lot of sustain options in order to gain the damage. LIke Inventions + Alchemy combo (good defensive traitline combo), Bulwark for Elix U (quickness makes the damage more frightening, autos themselves are slow), and condition clear options from other traits because you want HGH in Alch. In Scrapper, you don't run any of the sustain traits like system shocker, adaptive armor, kinetic stabilizers, damage dampener and exper exam. You run all offensive traits (firearms literally has no defense oriented traits, juggernaut's stab doesn't do anything to mitigate damage dealt). It's one of the very few examples of healthy give vs take. you give up defense to gain offense. that is fine.
    For core engi, you don't have access to bulwark gyro or anything that grants barrier outside of emergency elixir in alchemy. and that untraited is a 100s cd. it's 80s if you trait it with HGH. but with core, you can run with alchemy + inventions for a great defensive set up and run firearms or explosives to gain a little bit of damage to go with alch + invent combo. If you want a lot of damage, you gotta sacrifice either alch or inventions and defensive traits to gain it. This is healthy give vs take. this is fine.
    Holo is another beast entirely, and it is mainly due to ECSU giving 2 might per second and laser's edge which, when coupled with ECSU, grants 22.5% more damage while in forge under high heat circumstances. tone down both of those and it'll be in a good spot. and maybe grenade autos as well.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • @Kodama.6453 said:
    For example, someone suggested in the past that holosmith should lose the entire toolbelt and replace it with the photon forge mechanic. They would have to buff photon forge by unrealistic amounts to make that trade off worth it, since holosmith would lose tons of skills by losing the toolbelt skills. Some utility skills on engineer are even solely taken because of the associated toolbelt skill, like rifle turret.

    Another (and easier to implement) alternative is to make holo loose 1 utility skill (and 1 toolbelt skill, but get its F5 back). That way holo will keep the core toolbelt mechanic, and at the same stop being a core upgrade.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    For example, someone suggested in the past that holosmith should lose the entire toolbelt and replace it with the photon forge mechanic. They would have to buff photon forge by unrealistic amounts to make that trade off worth it, since holosmith would lose tons of skills by losing the toolbelt skills. Some utility skills on engineer are even solely taken because of the associated toolbelt skill, like rifle turret.

    Another (and easier to implement) alternative is to make holo loose 1 utility skill (and 1 toolbelt skill, but get its F5 back). That way holo will keep the core toolbelt mechanic, and at the same stop being a core upgrade.

    Or do none of this and look at the entry / exit of forge cooldown and how much heat the skills generate?

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sigmoid.7082 or do the treatment that everyone got and stop the kitten 20-25 perma might thing and then look to making EE + FB less stupid.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2020

    I'm absolutely sick and tired of this Explosives 1 3 1 & grenade kit kitten.

    At this point it's so unreasonably overpowered that you can quite seriously randomly generate a build, the amulet, the rune, the sigils, the weapons, the trait selections & utilities, and as long as it has Explosives 1 3 1 & grenade kit, not only will it be functional, but it'll be viable amongst meta.

    That's so wrong in so many ways.

    ~ I left GW2 on 11/22/2020 due to widespread cheating and the lack of action to moderate it

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    explosives is a problem and anyone who doesnt see this is delusional

    // Yanim

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well, Anet made the statement that they even liked the grenade holo build that has emerged, so I shamelessly picked that build up myself and I have to say that I have a blast playing with and against it.

    That so many people are complaining about holo is beyond me while I am facing daredevils which are literally evading for 10 seconds without any downtime while applying conditions on you constantly.

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2020

    This reminds of mirage nerfs, there were wrong and unnecessary nerfs and then they destroyed the classes

    Holo has too much of everything, imo the main problem is how much mobility it has. The superspeed uptime is the highest in the game and the only other build that comes close is FA weaver, and look how worse FA weaver is in everything else and how hard countered by some builds it is.

    I think the superspeed trait should work only wgen your heat bar is over 50% or even when the holo form turns red.

    If they want to keep all that damage they need extra nerfs in survivability and mobility

    The mini elixir is kinda of a problem too, the toolkit effect is stealth, they could just swap effects with another elixir so you dont have both thing in one elixir

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khalisto.5780 said:
    This reminds of mirage nerfs, there were wrong and unnecessary nerfs and then they destroyed the classes

    Holo has too much of everything, imo the main problem is how much mobility it has. The superspeed uptime is the highest in the game and the only other build that comes close is FA weaver, and look how worse FA weaver is in everything else and how hard countered by some builds it is.

    I think the superspeed trait should work only wgen your heat bar is over 50% or even when the holo form turns red.

    If they want to keep all that damage they need extra nerfs in survivability and mobility

    The mini elixir is kinda of a problem too, the toolkit effect is stealth, they could just swap effects with another elixir so you dont have both thing in one elixir

    Making the superspeed trait just work "when holo form turns red" makes no sense, since this would require you to pick one specific grandmaster trait: enhanced capacity storage unit (ECSU).

    A master trait should not have a grandmaster trait as a requirement to function at all.
    They also cut the superspeed uptime in half by doubling the cooldown of photon forge 2 recently.....

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Khalisto.5780 said:
    This reminds of mirage nerfs, there were wrong and unnecessary nerfs and then they destroyed the classes

    Holo has too much of everything, imo the main problem is how much mobility it has. The superspeed uptime is the highest in the game and the only other build that comes close is FA weaver, and look how worse FA weaver is in everything else and how hard countered by some builds it is.

    I think the superspeed trait should work only wgen your heat bar is over 50% or even when the holo form turns red.

    If they want to keep all that damage they need extra nerfs in survivability and mobility

    The mini elixir is kinda of a problem too, the toolkit effect is stealth, they could just swap effects with another elixir so you dont have both thing in one elixir

    Making the superspeed trait just work "when holo form turns red" makes no sense, since this would require you to pick one specific grandmaster trait: enhanced capacity storage unit (ECSU).

    A master trait should not have a grandmaster trait as a requirement to function at all.
    They also cut the superspeed uptime in half by doubling the cooldown of photon forge 2 recently.....

    And you still have the best speed uptime with arguably the best burst in the game and some A tier defensive capabilities, something there has to be toned down

  • Engi main here
    Grenades are the obvious offender here.
    Atm scrapper is way stronger than holo (if they use grenades) (also because hammer wasn't hit as hard as rifle holo [rip]) (also because of that permanent superspeed)
    The barrier stacking with protection gyro needs to be double-checked, as well as those no-ICD triggers on CC which easily give a scrapper with at least 2 fingers and 1 eye the ability to burst you down from 100 to 20% with 3 stuns while getting stability and a 50% hp barrier
    kthx

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    Well, Anet made the statement that they even liked the grenade holo build that has emerged, so I shamelessly picked that build up myself and I have to say that I have a blast playing with and against it.

    That so many people are complaining about holo is beyond me while I am facing daredevils which are literally evading for 10 seconds without any downtime while applying conditions on you constantly.

    Yes, a lot of things are non-interactive. It's why this game isn't a good PvP game.