Why do they not fix engi? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Why do they not fix engi?

Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭
edited August 1, 2020 in PVP

This class in PvP is absurd. Can't fathom how broken it is compared to other builds. And it's been like this for a very long time.
Just spams so much buffs on itself, has unbelievable dmg output, even gets shields and blocks and everything. Sustain equals out dmg with no efford. The range on holo sword is beyond reasonable too. And nades, what even are these dmg numbers.
It's so obviously broken, tanky and strong at the same time, why is this not fixed since yesterday?
Some people don't even bother with playing something diverse, just spam flamethrower 1 and running around. Then go into tiny form and troll on point.
Seriously what is this rubbish balance?

Comments

  • If you're wondering why Holo has never been gutted its because historically holo has always been the A to the meta's S+ boonbeast.
    That is to say that holo has always been the second best build or the third best build .
    Second nerfing holo is kinda hard. Since the point of holo is to have high melee cleave damage. Something engineer doesn't really have outside of holo.
    So nerfing it is to nerf its niche.

    Also holo has been nerfed 2 patches in a row now. You guys are just being silly.

  • Noah Salazar.5430Noah Salazar.5430 Member ✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020

    yeh it's slowly geting balanced
    but no holo aren't that much strong, scrapper right now is much stronger than holo, but pick rate of scrapper arent that hight yet, and most scrapper don't know how to build it to be strong
    if you don't belive me than prob you never got 2-3 shoted from stealth with Thunderclap+Granade barage+Sharpnel granade+Electo wirl if somone live yet all that on 11-18 might before even fight start

  • @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    Boonbeast was only good for quite seriously "a season or two" and it that was a side node thing. After they gutted Boonbeast, which didn't take long, Soulbeasts had to start running full DPS builds. Ranger went for literally "years" without having any build that was solid enough to compete seriously for top 50 slots or to be used in any serious MAT team. Then we had a short season or two of Core Ranger play, which was recent. And that build was good enough to dominate side node play and be considered for use in top tier play. But even then, half the community claimed that Holosmith was every bit the equal to a Core Ranger on a side node.

    I was just using boonbeast as an example >.>

    @White Kitsunee.4620 said:
    That is to say that holo has always been the second best build or the third best build .

    This is what I meant. Holo always played second fiddle to boonbeast, mirage, shatter mesmer, ect.
    Whatever the fotm S+ spec was holo was always behind it. Which is why It was never gutted like mesmer or scourge got.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020

    Photon forge being 9s CD would be unbearable. All that needs to happens is explosive entrance needs to be hard nerfed and enhanced capacity storage unit should give less might. Holo is only an issue because it can randomly 1 shot you still, due to might stacking and explosive entrance on top of all it's kitchen sink utility it has. The core part of the spec isn't imbalanced. However, without this burst holo will probably be as unviable as DPS tempest/weavers due to power rev and any thief spec insta deleting you from the game and making you unable to contribute as you spam kite and play jump puzzles all game trying desperately to survive. That's more of a power rev and thief being obscenely broken thing, though.

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 2, 2020

    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2, 2020

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

    I mean, flamethrower scrapper finally has become kinda viable (pretty sure it still isn't in high tier PvP, tho).
    Scrapper got several traits to ensure the synergy with that kit and also we can finally really utilise the juggernaut grandmaster trait, since camping flamethrower is not such a big no go anymore.

    I can agree that the damage could get toned down a bit, but I would like to still preserve flamethrower scrapper viable.

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

    I mean, flamethrower scrapper finally has become kinda viable (pretty sure it still isn't in high tier PvP, tho).
    Scrapper got several traits to ensure the synergy with that kit and also we can finally really utilise the juggernaut grandmaster trait, since camping flamethrower is not such a big no go anymore.

    I can agree that the damage could get toned down a bit, but I would like to still preserve flamethrower scrapper viable.

    Its broken, not viable.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Clyan.1593 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

    I mean, flamethrower scrapper finally has become kinda viable (pretty sure it still isn't in high tier PvP, tho).
    Scrapper got several traits to ensure the synergy with that kit and also we can finally really utilise the juggernaut grandmaster trait, since camping flamethrower is not such a big no go anymore.

    I can agree that the damage could get toned down a bit, but I would like to still preserve flamethrower scrapper viable.

    Its broken, not viable.

    Maybe they could shift around some damage?
    For example, reduce the power coefficient of the auto attack and give flame blast (skill 2) some of the power coefficient back?
    This would require the engineer to hit a skillshot to regain some of their damage.

  • Bingus.4236Bingus.4236 Member ✭✭

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

    Why would someone try to revive an ally that was getting attacked by another player? Also, I wouldn't stand there flaming a downed player if there was another enemy about, I'd use the function gyro or the flame wall instead and then carry on fighting.

    I often get highest damage stat on my team but I have to supplement flamethrower with scrapper actions to get it. Certainly can't get it by spamming 1.

  • choovanski.5462choovanski.5462 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 3, 2020

    the forum is obsessed with asking for anet to nerf the wrong things (like nades) and never actually campaigns to get things like the free heals, might and boons nerfed in holo

    so if you're gonna blame anyone, blame those who made 'nerf nades' threads because they were unable to actually understand what makes holo strong (clue it's holo skills and traits, not core lol).

    so thanks to them, we got minor nerfs to nade kit itself, and holo and all the free damage and sustain it brings was left untouched. if instead the free might gain was what people complained about, holo might have got effective nerfs. but nope. people are just too short sighted

    It's coming for me through the trees
    Help me someone
    Help me please
    Take my shoes off and throw them in the lake

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What I don't understand is 4 elixir procs in alchemy spec. I thought that warr was very reliant on its stance procs, but engi swims in free boons and sustain by just being in combat.

    Deso's favorite FROG
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    Froggo himself

  • wasss.1208wasss.1208 Member ✭✭✭

    @choovanski.5462 said:
    the forum is obsessed with asking for anet to nerf the wrong things (like nades) and never actually campaigns to get things like the free heals, might and boons nerfed in holo

    so if you're gonna blame anyone, blame those who made 'nerf nades' threads because they were unable to actually understand what makes holo strong (clue it's holo skills and traits, not core lol).

    so thanks to them, we got minor nerfs to nade kit itself, and holo and all the free damage and sustain it brings was left untouched. if instead the free might gain was what people complained about, holo might have got effective nerfs. but nope. people are just too short sighted

    The best part is, there are already multiple new topics, asking for yet again more core engi nerfs.

    I really wish people who ask for nerfs would first try to understand and play the spec. One don't have to be a rocket scientist to notice that something isn't right, but they could let those point out the problems, that actually know how the prof. works.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:
    What I don't understand is 4 elixir procs in alchemy spec. I thought that warr was very reliant on its stance procs, but engi swims in free boons and sustain by just being in combat.

    Where do you get the number 4 from?
    Lesser elixir b, lesser elixir c, elixir e.... that's 3 elixir procs in alchemy. What's the 4th?

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 3, 2020

    @Bingus.4236 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

    Why would someone try to revive an ally that was getting attacked by another player? Also, I wouldn't stand there flaming a downed player if there was another enemy about, I'd use the function gyro or the flame wall instead and then carry on fighting.

    I often get highest damage stat on my team but I have to supplement flamethrower with scrapper actions to get it. Certainly can't get it by spamming 1.

    Just that spamming a single skill doesnt usually work when someone is reviving. You miss the whole point going in full defense of a very obviously broken build.
    Also I dont care about stats, that's not the issue here, another one where you clearly try to derange the thopic into a defensive stance on behalf of engis.
    Engi is far too strong, the whole pvp section knows, except of course some people who accidently enjoy playing this prof.

  • kybraga.7103kybraga.7103 Member ✭✭✭

    "Why don't they fix Engineer?"

    Because everyone is biased and it's hard to tell if someone is just complaining because it counters them/serves a strong role or if it's just that incredibly busted. I think the main issue right now is that Flashbang just gives an easy blind/daze without sacrificing any damage. Just low the damage significantly when traiting for Flashbang. Easy.

    'But wait, X this and Y that.'

    Woo-wee. PvP is fun. :tongue:

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 3, 2020

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

    It dies instantly when focused, though. It's just super unfun to fight as a lot of builds and shouldn't have passive staiblity when stability is so rare now.

    @steki.1478 said:
    What I don't understand is 4 elixir procs in alchemy spec. I thought that warr was very reliant on its stance procs, but engi swims in free boons and sustain by just being in combat.

    It's not really just the alchemy tree, it's because they run elixir H and that + toss elixir is a ton of different boons at all times. Combine that with elixir U + alchemy tree and it seems holo just runs around with infinite boons at all times. It doesn't actually, the only boon that's an issue is the high stacks of might.

    Alchemy tratline is silly, though. A pure passive non-interactive trait line like alchemy is pretty boring. The only good traits are HGH and purity of purpose because you have to press buttons to interact with them, the othet ones all need to be completely revamped imo.

    It doesn't help that inventions is really weird and not helpful most of the time unless you run very specific traits and weapons(shield and scrapper, mainly) and tools is very very underwhelming outside of it's grandmaster traits and CDR on toolbelt skills. Firearms is a great tree for condi, but not so much for power. I'd say it's pretty BAD for power and alchemy ends up being better offensively AND defensively for power. This is why holo ends up taking alchemy.

    Explosives have the same issue, where it's not only better defensively, but also offensively than tools and inventions. It makes no sense.

    They need to buff inventions and tools to be competitive with alchemy and rework alchemy entirely outside of HGH and PoP, imo.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @White Kitsunee.4620 said:
    If you're wondering why Holo has never been gutted its because historically holo has always been the A to the meta's S+ boonbeast.
    That is to say that holo has always been the second best build or the third best build .
    Second nerfing holo is kinda hard. Since the point of holo is to have high melee cleave damage. Something engineer doesn't really have outside of holo.
    So nerfing it is to nerf its niche.

    Also holo has been nerfed 2 patches in a row now. You guys are just being silly.

    Dude that's actually pretty inaccurate.

    Boonbeast was only good for quite seriously "a season or two" and it that was a side node thing. After they gutted Boonbeast, which didn't take long, Soulbeasts had to start running full DPS builds. Ranger went for literally "years" without having any build that was solid enough to compete seriously for top 50 slots or to be used in any serious MAT team. Then we had a short season or two of Core Ranger play, which was recent

    There was actually a soulbeast who played it right when it came out with a unique dps build that hit rank 1 briefly and later secured a rank 3 title with it. Imo some of the thing in soulbeast were always real diamonds- like fresh reinforcement at least with 2 pets was one of the most insane things I’ve seen in gw2. Sadly these things to nerf on ranger stick out like sore thumbs so it gets nerfed to oblivion when they realize it. Meanwhile engi is constantly either meta or in sleeper mode for meta, which was been true for core ranger now and I’m not sure what they could nerf on ranger so maybe the tables have turned, though I doubt it or at least in severity

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    It dies instantly when focused, though. It's just super unfun to fight as a lot of builds and shouldn't have passive staiblity when stability is so rare now.

    The question is: what do you want to replace the stability with?
    Juggernaut has been around since the release of the game and it always provided permanent stability while using the flamethrower.

    The other side effects changed, like it used to give 200 toughness, but was also reducing your movement speed by 50%. Now it gives might and increases might duration.
    But the stability has always been an integral part of the identity of the flamethrower, it just happened that almost the entire existence of this game this couldn't really get utilised, since camping flamethrower was just terrible.

    And if you want to replace the stability, then we also would need yet another rework of scrapper. You can't tell me that mass momentum, object in motion and applied force haven't been designed with flamethrower in mind. The synergy with the juggernaut trait is just way too good to not be intentional.

  • anjo.6143anjo.6143 Member ✭✭✭

    I made a holo and Im playing like holo nades, it is WAY OP, so much broken, just like rev.
    3 sets of weapon, tank, short cd heal, high damage, high speed, stealth, tornado op, it is just crazy, lol

  • Bingus.4236Bingus.4236 Member ✭✭
    edited August 4, 2020

    @Clyan.1593 said:

    @Bingus.4236 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

    Why would someone try to revive an ally that was getting attacked by another player? Also, I wouldn't stand there flaming a downed player if there was another enemy about, I'd use the function gyro or the flame wall instead and then carry on fighting.

    I often get highest damage stat on my team but I have to supplement flamethrower with scrapper actions to get it. Certainly can't get it by spamming 1.

    Just that spamming a single skill doesnt usually work when someone is reviving. You miss the whole point going in full defense of a very obviously broken build.
    Also I dont care about stats, that's not the issue here, another one where you clearly try to derange the thopic into a defensive stance on behalf of engis.
    Engi is far too strong, the whole pvp section knows, except of course some people who accidently enjoy playing this prof.

    You try and res someone when there is an enemy attacking, you die. I don't even know why you are talking about spamming a skill that slow. Have you even used it yourself?

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bingus.4236 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:

    @Bingus.4236 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

    Why would someone try to revive an ally that was getting attacked by another player? Also, I wouldn't stand there flaming a downed player if there was another enemy about, I'd use the function gyro or the flame wall instead and then carry on fighting.

    I often get highest damage stat on my team but I have to supplement flamethrower with scrapper actions to get it. Certainly can't get it by spamming 1.

    Just that spamming a single skill doesnt usually work when someone is reviving. You miss the whole point going in full defense of a very obviously broken build.
    Also I dont care about stats, that's not the issue here, another one where you clearly try to derange the thopic into a defensive stance on behalf of engis.
    Engi is far too strong, the whole pvp section knows, except of course some people who accidently enjoy playing this prof.

    You try and res someone when there is an enemy attacking, you die. I don't even know why you are talking about spamming a skill that slow. Have you even used it yourself?

    Ok, I repeat. Other classes cannot spam a single skill and kill both the downed and the reviving player. You again are missing my point. Seems to me you are either stubborn or just in total denial because I call out the nonsense of engi "balance".

    Beside your question is completely stupid. It's not like rezzing midfight is the rarest thing in pvp, it's actually the opposite.

  • Bingus.4236Bingus.4236 Member ✭✭

    @Clyan.1593 said:

    @Bingus.4236 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:

    @Bingus.4236 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    There is zero point in defending the state of Engi. Even a 20 percent nerf doesnt help, thats how broken it is.
    Fact is spamming flame 1 works, you can literally down an enemy and stand there spamming it. If someone tries to revive that guy, you just get behind him and spam flame 1. You will kill both. That's how rediculous flamethrower is.
    Engi has to be looked at and nerfed substentially. And the nerf has to hit hard so you guys finally learn how invest some skill into playing it. Spaming a single skill has to go.

    Why would someone try to revive an ally that was getting attacked by another player? Also, I wouldn't stand there flaming a downed player if there was another enemy about, I'd use the function gyro or the flame wall instead and then carry on fighting.

    I often get highest damage stat on my team but I have to supplement flamethrower with scrapper actions to get it. Certainly can't get it by spamming 1.

    Just that spamming a single skill doesnt usually work when someone is reviving. You miss the whole point going in full defense of a very obviously broken build.
    Also I dont care about stats, that's not the issue here, another one where you clearly try to derange the thopic into a defensive stance on behalf of engis.
    Engi is far too strong, the whole pvp section knows, except of course some people who accidently enjoy playing this prof.

    You try and res someone when there is an enemy attacking, you die. I don't even know why you are talking about spamming a skill that slow. Have you even used it yourself?

    Ok, I repeat. Other classes cannot spam a single skill and kill both the downed and the reviving player. You again are missing my point. Seems to me you are either stubborn or just in total denial because I call out the nonsense of engi "balance".

    Beside your question is completely stupid. It's not like rezzing midfight is the rarest thing in pvp, it's actually the opposite.

    I didn't say resing midfight was rare. I've seen a fair few people resing midfight, often getting killed because of bad situational awareness. Odd to see someone making out they were in the right for it and it's the fault of a "broken build" on a thread though. What's broken is the idea of wanting to homogenise something because you can't/won't adapt to it.