Cantha Elite Spec Suggestion for Thief [Ronin]

Hi all,Just wanted to share a thought I had for Thief going into Cantha.

Now, I know going into this there's a lot of groaning cause weeb crap is done to death, but I feel this would fit.The general feel for this that I'm thinking is a Thief that can go toe-to-toe in a fight, without Stealth. High active defensive capabilities, coupled with the Thief's naturally high damage output.

Weapon: GreatswordFast slashes, lower damage than a typical Greatsword skill set, but also gives a decent amount of bleeds and defensive abilities such as Cripples, Weakness, Daze/Stun, short duration Parry/Riposte, etc. I would like to see Greatsword with kind of two different sets of abilities, similar to Deadeye's Rifle. One stance giving high damage output but sacrificing defence, the other stance giving much higher defensive capability. But that could be too much.

Steal changed to Dash.Short range, like 600 units, very fast dash forward does damage does not require a target. Has a relatively high cooldown, think 40-60 seconds, but reduced by x seconds for each point of Initiative used. Cooldown reset on kills.

All Stealth changed to Parry/Riposte.This is where we start to see a tankier aspect of Thief. Where a Thief would gain Stealth from traits or abilities, they instead get a Parry/Riposte mechanic which counters the next attack made against them for reasonably high damage. Short duration and roots the Thief in place, think Mesmer's Blue mechanic, coupled with a damaging counter attack, potentially even give Initiative back for attacks blocked. I would also give the counter attack a short range dash so that attacks made at range would still be punished. It would also feed into the fantasy of like "master anime swordsman dashing all over the place".

Skills: StancesI would like to see these Stance abilities actually consume Initiative to give higher utility, think Holosmith skills, but also able to be used without the required Initiative so that you're not stuck unable to use any abilities.

Something I would like to see is an ability that consumes all Initiative for a stack of the Parry/Riposte mechanic, potentially an ultimate ability. At the end, for each attack blocked, you gain Stability and higher Initiative regeneration. Think Dashing into the thick of a fight, using this ability and then basically unleashing a whirlwind of pain from a flood of Initiative. However, it can still be used with low or no Initiative for reduced payoff.

It's something I was just thinking about just now, thought I might share it and see how others think about it. Comments saying that this would be OP are not required as this is quite clearly conceptual and talking more about the feel, theme, and playstyle rather than raw numbers. If you have any thoughts that could expand on this, I'd love to hear about it. Again, I know, weeb crap but with the setting of Cantha and the general feel of Thieves, I think that this would both complement Thief and give a vastly different way to play it, which I always enjoy.

:)

The problem with this is that it provides nothing new for the thief.

What you are describing here is basically the daredevil already. Daredevil provides the additional defense you are looking for here by giving additional dodges, giving thief access to effects like blocks, enhancing their weakness application to receive less damage from weakened foes, etc.

You are looking for a bruiser/tank spec for thief here, which is exactly daredevil's niche.What thief needs as the next elite spec is a support spec. This is a role that thief is not realistically able to fill.

This sounds great and fits the aesthetics of the expac great, maybe if not greatsword a off hand sword would work as well. I get people want the hamburglar spec with a torch but for cantha op's idea fits far better especially given the fact that thief is shinobi but named wrong. All its utility skills, trait names and pics shown it traits when comparing to a thief or shinobi those aspects clearly lean far more towards one then the other. It's like the named the class thief than decided to create a shinobi but never renamed it, so damn weird lol.Seriously who in the f.... wants to run around wielding a torch lol so bada$$.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:This sounds great and fits the aesthetics of the expac great, maybe if not greatsword a off hand sword would work as well. I get people want the hamburglar spec with a torch but for cantha op's idea fits far better especially given the fact that thief is shinobi but named wrong. All its utility skills, trait names and pics shown it traits when comparing to a thief or shinobi those aspects clearly lean far more towards one then the other. It's like the named the class thief than decided to create a shinobi but never renamed it, so kitten weird lol.Seriously who in the f.... wants to run around wielding a torch lol so bada$$.

Thematically it would fit, but the idea just basically does the same that daredevil is already supposed to. Getting in the middle of the enemy hoards to deal cleaving damage while surviving with defensive mechanics.

That playstyle is simply not needed since thief already has a spec doing exactly this.What thief needs is a support elite spec, since it isn't able to support allies currently at all and elite specs are supposed to give you access to new niches and playstyles.

id like to see greatsword skills with Iai-type attacks attached to it

although alot of the greatswords are pretty huge

or maybe that we would use Axes in mainhand, but spin them so fast that when they are thrown that they resemble shuriken B)

@Kodama.6453 said:...What thief needs as the next elite spec is a support spec. This is a role that thief is not realistically able to fill.

What thief needs is a support elite spec, since it isn't able to support allies currently at all and elite specs are supposed to give you access to new niches and playstyles...

The issue with that is none of the other trait lines give anything that supports a support build, apart from stealth and Venoms. You can't give thief support in the form of damage mitigation since that would be able to be abused so easily, so its got to be healing and boons and its got to scale with damage like a party wide Invigorating Precision. Imo.

My idea would be Unarmed combat. A Shaolin Monk.So you have traits that heal and grant boons based upon the damage you do and healing that scales with power and damage, not healing power.The mechanic would be Legends, one is Killroy Stonekin and the legend provides stats and weapon damage for dealing unarmed damage/CC and the other is Menhlo and provides stats and weapon damage for dealing PBAoE damage and heals.

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:My idea would be Unarmed combat. A Shaolin Monk.

while the idea is good, i find the lore of thief going monk kinda off, like just out of the blue you leave your life of thievery/banditry (or brawling(DD) /assassination (DE)) and seek redemption/enlightenment to become a monk :3

@Astyrah.4015 said:

@"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:My idea would be Unarmed combat. A Shaolin Monk.

But, that is literally the redemption story from every "guy with a past goes good, then other bad guy forces now good guy to come out of retirement and kick everyone's ass" story ever told. It's perfect! ;)

Maybe the Shaolin word was off, but you know what I mean, the martial artist monk trope.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:This sounds great and fits the aesthetics of the expac great, maybe if not greatsword a off hand sword would work as well. I get people want the hamburglar spec with a torch but for cantha op's idea fits far better especially given the fact that thief is shinobi but named wrong. All its utility skills, trait names and pics shown it traits when comparing to a thief or shinobi those aspects clearly lean far more towards one then the other. It's like the named the class thief than decided to create a shinobi but never renamed it, so kitten weird lol.Seriously who in the f.... wants to run around wielding a torch lol so bada$$.

I'm honestly more concerned with a cool enjoyable spec to play more so then what thief is lacking or needs to round out its playstyles, I just want a fun spec regardless of anything else really lol.

Thief will never have a fun and effective support spec, it's not that kind of class nor its specs, trying to force it to be one will just end up with thief having a lack luster underused new spec. If u want a support class/spec there are and will always be far better choices.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Thief will never have a fun and effective support spec, it's not that kind of class nor its specs, trying to force it to be one will just end up with thief having a lack luster underused new spec. If u want a support class/spec there are and will always be far better choices.

You are missing a crucial detail: Anet's design philosophy.

Anet has set themselves the goal that all classes will be able to perform any of the holy trinity roles (support, tank, dps).Some classes are already there, thanks to their core design. Other classes, like thief, are still not holding that promise.

Ranger also never has been able to support a team realistically, hence why they got druid as their first elite spec to give them the option to support if they desire to.And I am fairly sure the same will happen with thief. It's just the next logical step to keep their promise to let every class play the role they want to.

Anet have said many things, like how Elite specs won't be an upgrade but a playstyle change and look at how well that went.

If thief only could share its signet passives... and some other buffs wen activated

................................

So basically... what daredevil was kind of supposed to be? No ty :( .. Anet had a shot of making thief more tanky. And we still got the same paper'ish class that relies on "active" defense/dodging. As we can see in gw2 passive defense > active. We need blocks/stab/invuln/cleanse/heals.

I think thief really needs to get a support focused build atlast. I mean.. our every spec is DPS based. Wouldn't u want some more options? Like maybe going to raids/fractals as a healer/boonfarter? Tho having in mind that it's Cantha based expansion... it's a very low probability we'll get support-based spec. It's probably gonna be something like an assassin class which.. well.. thief is already an assassin so i don't see a point in making another DPS spec. I'll still cross my fingers and keep hoping for support spec tho.

@mtnjkbm.7452 said:thing is, a ronin is basically a japanese warrior so we already have that class in game. a greatsword wielding warrior class...

Well not all Japanese warriors were samurai and not all samurai were warriors or bushi. Warrior in mmo are called warrior cuz their the basic warrior archetype, samurai is not a basic warrior archetype. Technically all classes in gw2 are warriors, just of different verieties. Other than wearing armor and having access to banners nothing about a warrior class remotely resembles the fighting style of samurai, look at the gs skills lol. Thief at least uses skills that are found in ninjutsu and even are named as so, since ninjutsu was created by samurai I'd say ronin be a great thief spec. Could have bushi style gs strikes or dual swords.

Pretty sure the last specialization thief will get will be about condition and aoe, which franky is the only thing thief is missing so far.

@Aomine.5012 said:Pretty sure the last specialization thief will get will be about condition and aoe, which franky is the only thing thief is missing so far.

Thief needs a proper support options. Something that lets them heal allies.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@"Aomine.5012" said:Pretty sure the last specialization thief will get will be about condition and aoe, which franky is the only thing thief is missing so far.

Imagine the outcry of thief community if they get their very last specialization being Druid like supportive role . :expressionless:

They'd cry about "where's my high dps/ aoe? Isn't thief all about damage?"

@Aomine.5012 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Aomine.5012 said:Pretty sure the last specialization thief will get will be about condition and aoe, which franky is the only thing thief is missing so far.

Shall they cry, thief already got damage from elite specs. Daredevil can deal damage in AoE and deadeye has some pretty good single target damage.

Anet's philosophy has been that in the end every class should be able to perform any of the trinity roles: damage, tank, support.Daredevil was their version of a thief "tank" by increasing defensive mechanics like dodges and also providing new defense system like blocks.Thief already had good damage, deadeye gave them the addition of ranged dps additionally.

The only role a thief is not able to fill realistically is support, so this should be their next elite spec to keep their philosophy of being able to have a build for these different roles on all classes.Ranger wasn't able to support before HOT, they got that fixed with druid.Same for necromancer with scourge.Warrior, engineer and thief should get such support elite specs, too, since they don't have any yet.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Aomine.5012 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Aomine.5012 said:Pretty sure the last specialization thief will get will be about condition and aoe, which franky is the only thing thief is missing so far.

Disagree about Warrior part.Warrior core always have good support in form of shout/ banners/ empower allies/team might stacking . They even have shout heal build.Though it may not be practical in raid, it was very good support in fractal back then. (I haven't play fractal for awhile so can't comment on the current state of fractal)They even got a semi-defensive espec already through spellbreaker.The only thing Warrior is missing is strong range playstyle cuz rifle is kinda trash.

@Aomine.5012 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Aomine.5012 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Aomine.5012 said:Pretty sure the last specialization thief will get will be about condition and aoe, which franky is the only thing thief is missing so far.

Warrior has rifle and longbow as ranged options, that rifle is not really a strong weapon is an argument to rework the weapon instead of giving warrior another ranged weapon through an elite spec in my opinion....

And yes, warrior has some support in core. Every class has some support in core, including necromancer and ranger, which also got support elite specs in the past (scourge and druid respectively). Thief has some support in core, too. However, necromancer and ranger didn't have strong enough support in core to make them anywhere near viable healers in stuff like raids/strikes, which anet fixed with the elite specs.

Warrior is in the same boat for me. While the class has some supportive features, you don't see them as viable healers in these environments. If they did give ranger and necromancer support elite specs despite the classes having support options in core, then they can do the same for warrior.

@"Reknarok.7582" said:Hi all,Just wanted to share a thought I had for Thief going into Cantha.

Now, I know going into this there's a lot of groaning cause weeb kitten is done to death, but I feel this would fit.The general feel for this that I'm thinking is a Thief that can go toe-to-toe in a fight, without Stealth. High active defensive capabilities, coupled with the Thief's naturally high damage output.

Weapon: GreatswordFast slashes, lower damage than a typical Greatsword skill set, but also gives a decent amount of bleeds and defensive abilities such as Cripples, Weakness, Daze/Stun, short duration Parry/Riposte, etc. I would like to see Greatsword with kind of two different sets of abilities, similar to Deadeye's Rifle. One stance giving high damage output but sacrificing defence, the other stance giving much higher defensive capability. But that could be too much.

Steal changed to Dash.Short range, like 600 units, very fast dash forward does damage does not require a target. Has a relatively high cooldown, think 40-60 seconds, but reduced by x seconds for each point of Initiative used. Cooldown reset on kills.

All Stealth changed to Parry/Riposte.This is where we start to see a tankier aspect of Thief. Where a Thief would gain Stealth from traits or abilities, they instead get a Parry/Riposte mechanic which counters the next attack made against them for reasonably high damage. Short duration and roots the Thief in place, think Mesmer's Blue mechanic, coupled with a damaging counter attack, potentially even give Initiative back for attacks blocked. I would also give the counter attack a short range dash so that attacks made at range would still be punished. It would also feed into the fantasy of like "master anime swordsman dashing all over the place".

Skills: StancesI would like to see these Stance abilities actually consume Initiative to give higher utility, think Holosmith skills, but also able to be used without the required Initiative so that you're not stuck unable to use any abilities.

Something I would like to see is an ability that consumes all Initiative for a stack of the Parry/Riposte mechanic, potentially an ultimate ability. At the end, for each attack blocked, you gain Stability and higher Initiative regeneration. Think Dashing into the thick of a fight, using this ability and then basically unleashing a whirlwind of pain from a flood of Initiative. However, it can still be used with low or no Initiative for reduced payoff.

It's something I was just thinking about just now, thought I might share it and see how others think about it. Comments saying that this would be OP are not required as this is quite clearly conceptual and talking more about the feel, theme, and playstyle rather than raw numbers. If you have any thoughts that could expand on this, I'd love to hear about it. Again, I know, weeb kitten but with the setting of Cantha and the general feel of Thieves, I think that this would both complement Thief and give a vastly different way to play it, which I always enjoy.

:)yes to all thisPlease give me ronin

I like the concept you described. (Though I would find it highly cringe-worthy if they called it "ronin.") However, like others said, daredevil already does the brawler thing when you think about it, just with a staff instead of a sword, so it might be too similar?