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Mesmer DPS and DPS in general.


dontlook.1823

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Just wondering if anyone remembers this... About three years ago Guardians we're receiving a lot of attention about their DPS. After some time a new patch came out giving the eight professions at the time a new heal. Also, the Guardian was given a substantial DPS buff along with the promise of future buffs to it's DPS.

Along came Heart of Thorns with the new Dragon Hunter specialization and Guardians received a proper righteous redress to their grievance.

I've been playing Guild Wars 2 since launch PVX (PvE, PvP, and WvW) so I have a pretty good handle over most content I encounter. I must say that lately I have been lacking in PvP. Though I can say I have been shacking it up in PVE.

My daily experience is rather hostile at the moment. By that I mean, each day I'm faced with messages in LFG exclaiming team composition standards otherwise known as "Meta." At first, it was very easy to dismiss these messages and start my own group; however, lately I find myself very tired. Tired of hearing things such that, "are you running Chrono," "is Chrono not good anymore?" "Is that a power Mesmer!?" It's no news to anyone that DPS in this game has a large gap for Mesmer as they place 10th and lower on their benchmarks.

Earlier this year it was rumored that each class was going to be giving the opportunity to reach a 30k DPS benchmark. This is not bad but not necessarily good either. While Elementalist and Guardians vie for the top spot in DPS for 40-50k. I'm stuck cheering them on with my mere 30kDPS.

The problem is, I want every profession to have that chance to say, "Yeah I'm top DPS." Not just a hand full of professions that should carry the rest of their teams DPS. What we have here is a snow-ball going down one slippery slope. Not only that, it really only contributes to an already prevalent issue within Guild Wars 2. For example, the Necromancer was savagely booted from raids for more than half of the time Heart of Thorns was live. Problems such as these cannot continue to go unaddressed for as long as they have been.

Each profession has something to bring to the table, something unique to offer the group. It should by no means, mean players use prescribed builds for some sort of reaching perfection that very swiftly knocks other professions out as sub-optimal. There has to be some detrimental loss for losing out on a whole profession. Whether it means buffing those barriors, increasing the damage confusion deals much like the reverent's torment, there just has to be more of a, "ahh just couldn't get one of those in my party, maybe next time." Instead of this callous exclusivity.

I firmly stand my ground when I say game play like that is all around toxic. I am a firm believer that people should play what they know and like as long as your doing something ( doing dps, grabbing aggro, clearing mechanics, so on and so forth.) I genuinely think the quality of life for Guild Wars 2 players will increase once these DPS matters get under control. One last thought, condition damage should not out weigh that of power damage; it should simply be a choice, a play-style kind of thing.

Ulitimatly, Guild Wars 2 is a MMO RPG get into character have fun with what your doing and above all be effective. Cause last time I checked I don't use meters to tell me I'm 2nd in behind so and so nor do I ever wish to do so. I would just like potential builds out there bring what they are capable of. Instead of being boxed in a certain role. I.e. each profession should have the ability to do just as the other profession can do just with a little bit different flavor.

Hit my inbox up for all the latest DPS benchmarks and builds. I'll send a link. Hopefully we can get somewhere from here

With regards,

Egrek

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Mesmer has DPS builds, but our mechanic is still awful in that we have to ignore our F-Skills entirely to maintain anything close to reasonable DPS, much less optimal DPS. That's the problem. No matter what DPS builds we get, if we have to ignore our F-skills for the duration of the fight then the class as a whole needs some re-working to do

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We'd have to differentiate between the class being incapable and other players being indignant benchmark zealots. I see a similar problem with Weaver as of late. When I play tempest, first they ask that I play weaver, then demand that I play weaver, then get mad when weaver fails harder than the Tempest in most Fractals. The whole time, completely ignoring my statements about how the tempest is exponentially more consistent and user friendly than Weaver, a spec that still gets slaughtered with a dedicated healer. Once they see that benchmark, it is all they need to make an informed decision to hate people over.

However I digress: I would argue strongly that any spec that hits over 30k reliably on a benchmark is capable of completing any content in the game by comfortable margins. Before the recent DPS ramp up there were times when many classes were struggling hard just to do 30k DPS, and these classes were still beating every raid in the game. Old content hasn't become harder with the release of PoF, so if you have a new spec that does over 30k DPS, it can do raids just as well as everything that came before it. With clone mirage doing 30k, phantasm mirage doing 34k, power core mesmer doing 31k, there is nothing in the game that the mesmer couldn't blast through. Particular mechanical issues aside, of course.

The issue you're encountering comes from people who believe that their teammates owe them maximum DPS in meta comps, and likewise owe their teammates nothing regarding satisfaction and enjoyment for playing the class their teammates want. This isn't a problem that Anet can easily solve, because even if they equalize DPS in PVE without ruining PVP somehow, a lot of advantages that different classes have are incomparables meant to be taken advantage of in PVP scenarios. For example, the mirage's ability to chase and maintain aggro is hard to make useful against a PVE boss, let alone all of them. Overall, it is simply a community problem. The playerbase needs to be more tolerant of choices at the high end level.

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@dontlook.1823 said:Would just like to see some decent power creep like that of the Guardian. And to note despite the power Mesmer benchmarks they're still sub-optimal for team comps.

I frankly don't. 34k DPS is already way too high for the PvE content we have. If anything, nerf other DPS specs down to at least the level of Mesmer DPS specs, but more likely bring everyone even lower, capping at 28k-30k.

Anyhow, independent of that (I just disagree about the power baseline really), I feel ANet seriously needs to sit down, decide where they want to go with their class-design in general, and do something about it. You can notice by now that this is a 5 years old game where little if any thought was put into long-term class design, instead whoever was there at the time and had hours free got to work on class changes and spec design. It's probably not even the fault of the devs, but a mix of understaffed dev teams and rotating employees. Knowledge lost and all.

Still, there needs to something coherent. I'm perfectly fine if the long-term goal for Mesmer is "you enhance your allies", though I'd say it's conceptually a bit ill-fitting I'd be alright so long as I finally get a single, cohesive, design; afterwards everything including both elite-specs is retooled around that design. That is what annoys me the most, how specs have endless amounts of skills and traits which go virtually unused, for a tiny amount of slots available, offer an endless amount of "fake choice" and trap talents as a result of that, without providing any meaningful design purpose in the end. Sure, originally the idea was "you can all do whatever you want!!", but let's be honest, the game is 5 years old now, I hope everyone is realistic enough to see that as predicted, this didn't work out. It was a nice idea, but too difficult to pull off if the game is still supposed to run on a team small enough so it is profitable.

ANet's big problem: rushed implementations.

So my solution would be: Seriously cut out options and cruft, but in a way so that as little depth is lost for as much complexity lost as possible. Then re-tool the remaining options to provide each class with a strong inherent design, which each elite spec warps in a meaningful way which shows an influence by another class, almost like an offspec.

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There is no reason to take power DPS mesmer in raid. It is a power dps with a ramp up time worse than most condi builds. You have to ramp things back up every time you want to fight a different target. It is just bad.

Condition mirage can actually be a pretty decent all-around choice. The sustained dps is pretty high and you finally have the option to regard your phantasms.

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Power mesmer is absolutely fantastic on every raid boss in the fame except deimos. Its ability to hit good, consistent, reliable dps regardless of mechanics make it one of the best actual in fight damage builds for weekly clear runs.

It also has a free elite and 2 utility slots to shift as needed for each fight.

It has enough damage to top charts on most fights unless you are playing with extremely experienced players for boss dps and has literally the safest rotation ever that is never at risk of being super impeded by mechanics, save for having to eat as a slub on sloth or if sacrificed on Mathias.

Ok KC, it is absolutely top tier due to packing the most break bar potential with the least loss of dps for any dps slot. Any competent group wont have damage issues, and ensuring a quick break and helping during orb phase with focus pull is huge.

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@Exciton.8942 said:There is no reason to take power DPS mesmer in raid. It is a power dps with a ramp up time worse than most condi builds. You have to ramp things back up every time you want to fight a different target. It is just bad.

Condition mirage can actually be a pretty decent all-around choice. The sustained dps is pretty high and you finally have the option to regard your phantasms.

Wrrrroooooong.

There is only the initial ramp time. Deimos is the only fight you 100% will lose your phantasms enough to hurt your damage in any noticible way, barring reaaaaaally bad RNG on Mathias sacrifice.

Any real seasoned raider, outside of a speed clear attempt, knows that damage is literally necer the reason for a failed attempt in the majority of moderate to experienced runs. Its mechanic failures that wipe people, not missing a few 1000 dps.

Did you break? Did you apply the damage at the right time (kc burst and phantasm merge prevention) did people stand in stupid? Did the slubing eat properly? Did we pull or aoe the slubling by mistake? Did we miss a shake on sloth? Did someone miss a green at vg / misstime their distort rotation/get teleported?

All those are things that actually prevent a kill.

Closest thing to a dps check is gorseval no updraft and KC and i clear them weekly on first pull with power mesmer.

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@Swiftwynd.1685 said:

@Exciton.8942 said:There is no reason to take power DPS mesmer in raid. It is a power dps with a ramp up time worse than most condi builds. You have to ramp things back up every time you want to fight a different target. It is just bad.

Condition mirage can actually be a pretty decent all-around choice. The sustained dps is pretty high and you finally have the option to regard your phantasms.

Wrrrroooooong.

There is only the initial ramp time. Deimos is the only fight you 100% will lose your phantasms enough to hurt your damage in any noticible way, barring reaaaaaally bad RNG on Mathias sacrifice.

Any real seasoned raider, outside of a speed clear attempt, knows that damage is literally necer the reason for a failed attempt in the majority of moderate to experienced runs. Its mechanic failures that wipe people, not missing a few 1000 dps.

Did you break? Did you apply the damage at the right time (kc burst and phantasm merge prevention) did people stand in stupid? Did the slubing eat properly? Did we pull or aoe the slubling by mistake? Did we miss a shake on sloth? Did someone miss a green at vg / misstime their distort rotation/get teleported?

All those are things that actually prevent a kill.

Closest thing to a dps check is gorseval no updraft and KC and i clear them weekly on first pull with power mesmer.

Can confirm that power mesmer is one of the most reliable dps classes on every single boss in the game, even deimos to an extent. The lack of cleave means you wouldn't want to stack too many, but 1 or even 2 will be an extremely solid and reliable dps core for a group.

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@Carighan.6758 said:

@dontlook.1823 said:Would just like to see some decent power creep like that of the Guardian. And to note despite the power Mesmer benchmarks they're still sub-optimal for team comps.

I frankly don't. 34k DPS is already way too high for the PvE content we have. If anything, nerf other DPS specs down to
at least
the level of Mesmer DPS specs, but more likely bring everyone even lower, capping at 28k-30k.

Anyhow, independent of that (I just disagree about the power baseline really), I feel ANet
seriously
needs to sit down, decide where they want to go with their class-design in general, and do something about it. You can notice by now that this is a 5 years old game where little if any thought was put into long-term class design, instead whoever was there at the time and had hours free got to work on class changes and spec design. It's probably not even the fault of the devs, but a mix of understaffed dev teams and rotating employees. Knowledge lost and all.

Still, there needs to something coherent. I'm perfectly fine if the long-term goal for Mesmer is "you enhance your allies", though I'd say it's conceptually a bit ill-fitting I'd be alright so long as I finally get a single, cohesive, design; afterwards everything including both elite-specs is retooled around that design. That is what annoys me the most, how specs have endless amounts of skills and traits which go virtually unused, for a tiny amount of slots available, offer an endless amount of "fake choice" and trap talents as a result of that, without providing any meaningful design purpose in the end. Sure, originally the idea was "you can all do
whatever you want
!!", but let's be honest, the game is 5 years old now, I hope everyone is realistic enough to see that as predicted, this didn't work out. It was a nice idea, but too difficult to pull off if the game is still supposed to run on a team small enough so it is profitable.

ANet's big problem: rushed implementations.

So my solution would be:
Seriously
cut out options and cruft, but in a way so that as little depth is lost for as much complexity lost as possible. Then re-tool the remaining options to provide each
class
with a strong inherent design, which each
elite spec
warps in a meaningful way which shows an influence by another class, almost like an offspec.

I really enjoyed this response. I can completely agree with you on build variety. Some if not most traits are lacking the extra umfh they need to allow other builds to function well for what ever role the player chooses to play. As for now most people are just doubling down on DPS traits and taking any other modifiers along the way.Further on your reply, I remember the development team saying they want each class to be capable of fulfilling any role be it support, DPS, CDPS, Tanking, and so on as some people get creative where they can.I like this idea a lot but as stated above certain traits need to be reworked for this is to happen.

Also, going to have to go with you on the fact that DPS should be normalized.

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As for everyone else, I hear what your saying but the point here is being missed. Above I mentioned I'd like to compete for the top DPS spot. As of now it's not possible. Yeah maybe with an off group or something but realistically when everyone is running optimal builds and even optimal professions,sadly, Power Mesmer still remains sub-optimal. The proof is in the charts and the benchmarks. In fact, I'm more than certain most PUGs would kick a Mesmer that chooses to not tank or provide alacrity. Guilds that's another story. Your friends may let you come on what you like. But in my case I've a guild that does not bother with sub-optimal class/specs for certain roles such as DPS, support, tank etc. Perhaps mirage is the only exception which in most cases it's not recommended. Heavy emphasis on not recommended. Going to have to go with the DPS top dogs here, QT or Metabattle even, where it is plainly stated that power Mesmer is not the Meta by any means. Sadly the player base uses this more often than not and as such play reflects their recommendations 9x out 10. In any case, I don't want to get too caught up on raids. This is a problem that's been going on for quite some time. So, unless DPS is normalized across the board they'll be some griping on my end as it's plainly not fair play.

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@OriOri.8724 said:Mesmer has DPS builds, but our mechanic is still awful in that we have to ignore our F-Skills entirely to maintain anything close to reasonable DPS, much less optimal DPS. That's the problem. No matter what DPS builds we get, if we have to ignore our F-skills for the duration of the fight then the class as a whole needs some re-working to do

The shatter function is above all my favorite thing about the Mesmer. It's fast-paced and shells out nice burst damage. As for now though, I agree it needs a little bit of a rework because aside from low tier mobs the player is losing too much DPS using the shatter function.

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One extra caveat. Toward the end of the the OP it sounded as though I was contradicting myself when I said I don't care about my DPS placement.

I very much do. What I meant was I cannot stand the thought of others using DPS meters when I sometimes cannot close the gap simply because of the Mesmer DPS benchmark.

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i have a doubt, qtBenchmarks only shows those benchs on idle golems, so while condi is better on a idle target, power is still good at bursting down trashy mobs, wich i beleive every pve contente have some, thus being responsible for reaching the boss faster, where condi can shine. But i still think condi damage is way too high and is needs to be tuned down, or simply give a raw 25%+ damage of power builds in PvE only.

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@KeoLegend.5132 said:i have a doubt, qtBenchmarks only shows those benchs on idle golems, so while condi is better on a idle target, power is still good at bursting down trashy mobs, wich i beleive every pve contente have some, thus being responsible for reaching the boss faster, where condi can shine. But i still think condi damage is way too high and is needs to be tuned down, or simply give a raw 25%+ damage of power builds in PvE only.

There is no bursting down raid bosses. The benchmarks from quantify deal with consistent output over x amount of time.

No one cares about trash mobs or veterans left and right.

There is no notable trash in raids in this game (this isn't WoW). Most raids are 1 boss after the other with some minor exceptions. Even if there were, people would start reloging after clearing the trash if need be.

EDIT: to expand on this, arenanet have officially said they will be looking into this and try to reduce condition damage spike. The damage advantage to condition damage will remain though

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@KeoLegend.5132 said:i have a doubt, qtBenchmarks only shows those benchs on idle golems, so while condi is better on a idle target, power is still good at bursting down trashy mobs, wich i beleive every pve contente have some, thus being responsible for reaching the boss faster, where condi can shine. But i still think condi damage is way too high and is needs to be tuned down, or simply give a raw 25%+ damage of power builds in PvE only.

There is no bursting down raid bosses. The benchmarks from quantify deal with consistent output over x amount of time.

No one cares about trash mobs or veterans left and right.

There is no notable trash in raids in this game (this isn't WoW). Most raids are 1 boss after the other with some minor exceptions. Even if there were, people would start reloging after clearing the trash if need be.

EDIT: to expand on this, arenanet have officially said they will be looking into this and try to reduce condition damage spike. The damage advantage to condition damage will remain though

No one cares about trash mobs or veterans left and right.try 4 dps mes , you will see the difference .no one cares , coz other dps classes take care of those things already. if you play mes dps , even you have highest number you are still getting carried unless it's matt or carin .have fun to deal with gor orb , sab adds knockback (even lets assue mes can do cannon ),MO knight etc etc

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@Raiff.6742 said:I play a Power Chrono build and last night was 2nd in DPS on a fractal in which everyone else was in Ascended gear and I was in Exotics. To me, that seems pretty good evidence that Power Mes is capable of doing good DPS.

lol maybe you should do that in actual raid with actual half decent player not in low tier fractal .pretty good evidence lol

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@musu.9205 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@KeoLegend.5132 said:i have a doubt, qtBenchmarks only shows those benchs on idle golems, so while condi is better on a idle target, power is still good at bursting down trashy mobs, wich i beleive every pve contente have some, thus being responsible for reaching the boss faster, where condi can shine. But i still think condi damage is way too high and is needs to be tuned down, or simply give a raw 25%+ damage of power builds in PvE only.

There is no bursting down raid bosses. The benchmarks from quantify deal with consistent output over x amount of time.

No one cares about trash mobs or veterans left and right.

There is no notable trash in raids in this game (this isn't WoW). Most raids are 1 boss after the other with some minor exceptions. Even if there were, people would start reloging after clearing the trash if need be.

EDIT: to expand on this, arenanet have officially said they will be looking into this and try to reduce condition damage spike. The damage advantage to condition damage will remain though

No one cares about trash mobs or veterans left and right.try 4 dps mes , you will see the difference .no one cares , coz other dps classes take care of those things already. if you play mes dps , even you have highest number you are still getting carried unless it's matt or carin .have fun to deal with gor orb , sab adds knockback (even lets assue mes can do cannon ),MO knight etc etc

Lol that cute.... but its wrong! I full clear on it and im consistently pulling good numbers along with my team. The only legitimate dps check we dont make is Xera center strategy, which im not a fan of anyway. I full clear every week on the build.

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@Swiftwynd.1685 said:

@musu.9205 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@KeoLegend.5132 said:i have a doubt, qtBenchmarks only shows those benchs on idle golems, so while condi is better on a idle target, power is still good at bursting down trashy mobs, wich i beleive every pve contente have some, thus being responsible for reaching the boss faster, where condi can shine. But i still think condi damage is way too high and is needs to be tuned down, or simply give a raw 25%+ damage of power builds in PvE only.

There is no bursting down raid bosses. The benchmarks from quantify deal with consistent output over x amount of time.

No one cares about trash mobs or veterans left and right.

There is no notable trash in raids in this game (this isn't WoW). Most raids are 1 boss after the other with some minor exceptions. Even if there were, people would start reloging after clearing the trash if need be.

EDIT: to expand on this, arenanet have officially said they will be looking into this and try to reduce condition damage spike. The damage advantage to condition damage will remain though

No one cares about trash mobs or veterans left and right.try 4 dps mes , you will see the difference .no one cares , coz other dps classes take care of those things already. if you play mes dps , even you have highest number you are still getting carried unless it's matt or carin .have fun to deal with gor orb , sab adds knockback (even lets assue mes can do cannon ),MO knight etc etc

Lol that cute.... but its wrong! I full clear on it and im consistently pulling good numbers along with my team. The only legitimate dps check we dont make is Xera center strategy, which im not a fan of anyway. I full clear every week on the build.

dude , can you readcan you understand what number 4 means ?i said

TRY 4 DPS MESMERNOT ONE

and can you clear shard on your good number mes ?can you clean gors orb etcyou can notor adds clean for sloth

you are carried by other dps and you think you are pulling good numbers . that's cute .many people including me played power mes or mirage for raid and we did get good numbers .that doesn't change the fact as dps role mes is lacking . not just plain numbers .

but again you can't read so if you don't understand that's fine i guess .

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:We'd have to differentiate between the class being incapable and other players being indignant benchmark zealots. I see a similar problem with Weaver as of late. When I play tempest, first they ask that I play weaver, then demand that I play weaver, then get mad when weaver fails harder than the Tempest in most Fractals. The whole time, completely ignoring my statements about how the tempest is exponentially more consistent and user friendly than Weaver, a spec that still gets slaughtered with a dedicated healer. Once they see that benchmark, it is all they need to make an informed decision to hate people over.

However I digress: I would argue strongly that any spec that hits over 30k reliably on a benchmark is capable of completing any content in the game by comfortable margins. Before the recent DPS ramp up there were times when many classes were struggling hard just to do 30k DPS, and these classes were still beating every raid in the game. Old content hasn't become harder with the release of PoF, so if you have a new spec that does over 30k DPS, it can do raids just as well as everything that came before it. With clone mirage doing 30k, phantasm mirage doing 34k, power core mesmer doing 31k, there is nothing in the game that the mesmer couldn't blast through. Particular mechanical issues aside, of course.

The issue you're encountering comes from people who believe that their teammates owe them maximum DPS in meta comps, and likewise owe their teammates nothing regarding satisfaction and enjoyment for playing the class their teammates want. This isn't a problem that Anet can easily solve, because even if they equalize DPS in PVE without ruining PVP somehow, a lot of advantages that different classes have are incomparables meant to be taken advantage of in PVP scenarios. For example, the mirage's ability to chase and maintain aggro is hard to make useful against a PVE boss, let alone all of them. Overall, it is simply a community problem. The playerbase needs to be more tolerant of choices at the high end level.

Its not a matter of people being tolerant of others playing how they want, you know.It's a matter of professions like Mesmer not being able to compete for top DPS. Although their current DPS is decent it is still sub-optimal. I brought up Guards in my OP because a few short years ago they were experiencing similar issues with their damage potential. Now they are pretty much at the top of the charts with pDPS and cDPS builds. I just want to make that clear. It's not that hard to find a group of friends or people you've been gaming with to tolerate ones' play-style . But DPS potential is up to the developers and that's it.

What's more is the balance team has done many PvE/PvP split changes. So to tie those two so closely together is far off from what I'm getting at here.

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:We'd have to differentiate between the class being incapable and other players being indignant benchmark zealots. I see a similar problem with Weaver as of late. When I play tempest, first they ask that I play weaver, then demand that I play weaver, then get mad when weaver fails harder than the Tempest in most Fractals. The whole time, completely ignoring my statements about how the tempest is exponentially more consistent and user friendly than Weaver, a spec that still gets slaughtered with a dedicated healer. Once they see that benchmark, it is all they need to make an informed decision to hate people over.

However I digress: I would argue strongly that any spec that hits over 30k reliably on a benchmark is capable of completing any content in the game by comfortable margins. Before the recent DPS ramp up there were times when many classes were struggling hard just to do 30k DPS, and these classes were still beating every raid in the game. Old content hasn't become harder with the release of PoF, so if you have a new spec that does over 30k DPS, it can do raids just as well as everything that came before it. With clone mirage doing 30k, phantasm mirage doing 34k, power core mesmer doing 31k, there is nothing in the game that the mesmer couldn't blast through. Particular mechanical issues aside, of course.

The issue you're encountering comes from people who believe that their teammates owe them maximum DPS in meta comps, and likewise owe their teammates nothing regarding satisfaction and enjoyment for playing the class their teammates want. This isn't a problem that Anet can easily solve, because even if they equalize DPS in PVE without ruining PVP somehow, a lot of advantages that different classes have are incomparables meant to be taken advantage of in PVP scenarios. For example, the mirage's ability to chase and maintain aggro is hard to make useful against a PVE boss, let alone all of them. Overall, it is simply a community problem. The playerbase needs to be more tolerant of choices at the high end level.

That may be the scenario for single bosses in raids.

In fractals and cleave raid fights, mesmer is complete trash and your group is carrying you hard through trash, which is virtually the vast majority of the fractal outside 99/100/mai trin/molten duo.

The ramp up and terrible target switching hindering the class is real, and while you point at passable DPS, that DPS is basically that of a PS condi warrior with none of the utility.

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@Zenith.7301 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:We'd have to differentiate between the class being incapable and other players being indignant benchmark zealots. I see a similar problem with Weaver as of late. When I play tempest, first they ask that I play weaver, then demand that I play weaver, then get mad when weaver fails harder than the Tempest in most Fractals. The whole time, completely ignoring my statements about how the tempest is exponentially more consistent and user friendly than Weaver, a spec that still gets slaughtered with a dedicated healer. Once they see that benchmark, it is all they need to make an informed decision to hate people over.

However I digress: I would argue strongly that any spec that hits over 30k reliably on a benchmark is capable of completing any content in the game by comfortable margins. Before the recent DPS ramp up there were times when many classes were struggling hard just to do 30k DPS, and these classes were still beating every raid in the game. Old content hasn't become harder with the release of PoF, so if you have a new spec that does over 30k DPS, it can do raids just as well as everything that came before it. With clone mirage doing 30k, phantasm mirage doing 34k, power core mesmer doing 31k, there is nothing in the game that the mesmer couldn't blast through. Particular mechanical issues aside, of course.

The issue you're encountering comes from people who believe that their teammates owe them maximum DPS in meta comps, and likewise owe their teammates nothing regarding satisfaction and enjoyment for playing the class their teammates want. This isn't a problem that Anet can easily solve, because even if they equalize DPS in PVE without ruining PVP somehow, a lot of advantages that different classes have are incomparables meant to be taken advantage of in PVP scenarios. For example, the mirage's ability to chase and maintain aggro is hard to make useful against a PVE boss, let alone all of them. Overall, it is simply a community problem. The playerbase needs to be more tolerant of choices at the high end level.

That may be the scenario for single bosses in raids.

In fractals and cleave raid fights, mesmer is complete trash and your group is carrying you hard through trash, which is virtually the vast majority of the fractal outside 99/100/mai trin/molten duo.

The ramp up and terrible target switching hindering the class is real, and while you point at passable DPS, that DPS is basically that of a PS condi warrior with none of the utility.

so many people in this thread thought they got good number and mesmer dps is fine and tell us don't judge a class by numbers lol the irony

truth is they got carried by other dps class + cps and they can't figure out .

in gors , if no one cleans orb , you die to aoein xera , if no one cleans shard , you die to super buffed xerathey can't understand the basically mechanic .

and in fractal dps mesmer is a joke

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