Dear PvE Skill design Team : Stop Buffing Necromancer please..please

GW2 was promoted as a multi gamemode triple A MMO , but right now PvE balance takes absolute precedence above everything else , this is more a general assumption then condemnation but watching how the balance has been shaping up lately...one can only wonder where the priorities lies here. Maybe somebody may want to correct me on this but buffing a class repeatedly so that it may occupy a better spot in PvE end content, while having a complete disregard for the competitive aspect of the game...doesn't look like a great plan to me.

The addition of traits like this :https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Onslaughthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unholy_Martyr

May look like a good idea for PvE but.....far less so for PvP/WvW; Necromancer is currently overperforming in PvP/WvW, I am sure the Devs must have taken notice of the sheer amount of necro players in the competitive environment atm, the community certainly has :

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/111480/75-of-2v2-players-are-necros#latesthttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/111490/please-consider-toning-down-reaper#latesthttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/110668/why-is-lich-still-aaing-for-6k#latest

In WvW the situation with necros is far worse than PvP , the slaps on the wrists for scourge barely touched the surface ...the class is utterly Broken and no other class compares atm in terms of sustain/damage ratio. The combination of : perma quickness - perma superspeed in combat and spammable ranged chill makes Necro far too oppressive to fight even for "rangers" which supposedly were to counter necros

The class simply has been buffed above any reasonable threshold and this is now even more apparent after the Feb 2020 Patch, now I pray the future balance patches will bring this overabused and overstacked monster finally under control.

And yet: Necro is still your worst pick in the PvE endgame ...ANet: please buff the Necro!!!!(in other words, your whole post doesn't make any sense! And I don't even want to comment on it in a normal way, don't want to waste my time on such nonsense, it's almost like you're playing a different game, it already starts with the PvE balance takes precedence .... wow! Conveniently forgot all the 2020 balance updates before the latest one?)

Btw: this thread is in the wrong forum section!

Necro needs no nerf but buffs in all modes

@"Arheundel.6451" said:GW2 was promoted as a multi gamemode triple A MMO , but right now PvE balance takes absolute precedence above everything else , this is more a general assumption then condemnation but watching how the balance has been shaping up lately...one can only wonder where the priorities lies here. Maybe somebody may want to correct me on this but buffing a class repeatedly so that it may occupy a better spot in PvE end content, while having a complete disregard for the competitive aspect of the game...doesn't look like a great plan to me.

The addition of traits like this :https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Onslaughthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unholy_Martyr

May look like a good idea for PvE but.....far less so for PvP/WvW; Necromancer is currently overperforming in PvP/WvW, I am sure the Devs must have taken notice of the sheer amount of necro players in the competitive environment atm, the community certainly has :

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/111480/75-of-2v2-players-are-necros#latesthttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/111490/please-consider-toning-down-reaper#latesthttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/110668/why-is-lich-still-aaing-for-6k#latest

In WvW the situation with necros is far worse than PvP , the slaps on the wrists for scourge barely touched the surface ...the class is utterly Broken and no other class compares atm in terms of sustain/damage ratio. The combination of : perma quickness - perma superspeed in combat and spammable ranged chill makes Necro far too oppressive to fight even for "rangers" which supposedly were to counter necros

The class simply has been buffed above any reasonable threshold and this is now even more apparent after the Feb 2020 Patch, now I pray the future balance patches will bring this overabused and overstacked monster finally under control.

@"Arheundel.6451" said:GW2 was promoted as a multi gamemode triple A MMO , but right now PvE balance takes absolute precedence above everything else , this is more a general assumption then condemnation but watching how the balance has been shaping up lately...one can only wonder where the priorities lies here. Maybe somebody may want to correct me on this but buffing a class repeatedly so that it may occupy a better spot in PvE end content, while having a complete disregard for the competitive aspect of the game...doesn't look like a great plan to me.

The addition of traits like this :https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Onslaughthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unholy_Martyr

May look like a good idea for PvE but.....far less so for PvP/WvW; Necromancer is currently overperforming in PvP/WvW, I am sure the Devs must have taken notice of the sheer amount of necro players in the competitive environment atm, the community certainly has :

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/111480/75-of-2v2-players-are-necros#latesthttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/111490/please-consider-toning-down-reaper#latesthttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/110668/why-is-lich-still-aaing-for-6k#latest

In WvW the situation with necros is far worse than PvP , the slaps on the wrists for scourge barely touched the surface ...the class is utterly Broken and no other class compares atm in terms of sustain/damage ratio. The combination of : perma quickness - perma superspeed in combat and spammable ranged chill makes Necro far too oppressive to fight even for "rangers" which supposedly were to counter necros

The class simply has been buffed above any reasonable threshold and this is now even more apparent after the Feb 2020 Patch, now I pray the future balance patches will bring this overabused and overstacked monster finally under control.

Doesn't the AoEs applied by scourge only hit two targets now? Furthermore ranged chill, isn't that from just the 3 skill on staff on scourge? I main ranger and in smallscale I do counter necro, in a large group not being able to "range" isn't so much a necro issue, it's a firebrand/scrapper/tempest issue with attacks being nonstop projectile destroyed or reflects or absorbed by barrier.

@"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:And yet: Necro is still your worst pick in the PvE endgame ...ANet: please buff the Necro!!!!(in other words, your whole post doesn't make any sense! And I don't even want to comment on it in a normal way, don't want to waste my time on such nonsense, it's almost like you're playing a different game, it already starts with the PvE balance takes precedence .... wow! Conveniently forgot all the 2020 balance updates before the latest one?)

Btw: this thread is in the wrong forum section!

There is no worst pick in PvE....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ-HZXBYDUU

The Balance team cannot be blamed by those who fail to accomplish this much, furthermore my thread is more about PvP/WvW where the quickness uptime is not needed nearly as much...the PvE crowd is safe..nobody after you..

@Arheundel.6451 said:Maybe somebody may want to correct me on this but buffing a class repeatedly so that it may occupy a better spot in PvE end content, while having a complete disregard for the competitive aspect of the game...doesn't look like a great plan to me.

The vast majority of players play Open World PvE content.

PvP, WvW and Raids only see a small fraction of the overall population participate.

Ergo, the best plan is to prioritize PvE as it caters to the larger playerbase.

@Arheundel.6451 said:In WvW the situation with necros is far worse than PvP , the slaps on the wrists for scourge barely touched the surface ...the class is utterly Broken

A hybrid PvE/WvW game mode that utilizes PvE gear, runes, sigils for PvP content is broken?

@Arheundel.6451 said:The combination of : perma quickness - perma superspeed in combat and spammable ranged chill makes Necro far too oppressive to fight even for "rangers" which supposedly were to counter necros

Perma-quickness is neccessary for Reaper because their base cast speeds are HORRIBLE and are seemingly balanced around perma-quickness. Which is terrible design as it makes the Reaper's Onslaught trait mandatory to play Reaper.

Since when do Necro's get Superspeed? Much less PERMA Superspeed? All they have access to is Swiftness or Swiftness comparable effects (New Signet of the Locust with Signets of Suffering is only 33% speed increase)

Spammable ranged chill? Uhh... Ranged Chill application from Reaper: Staff 3 (16s CD), Staff 5 (32s CD), Focus 5 (20s CD, 16s CD with trait), Dagger 4 (Only with trait, 18s CD. 12s CD with a second omegalul trait), Shadow Fiend active (lul PvP with Minions) and Spectral Grasp (35s CD). Maybe also Grasping Darkness? (If you actually get hit by it given its counterplay is having a functioning W key)

I'm not sure how "spammable" this effect really is

@Taril.8619 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:Maybe somebody may want to correct me on this but buffing a class repeatedly so that it may occupy a better spot in PvE end content, while having a complete disregard for the competitive aspect of the game...doesn't look like a great plan to me.

@Arheundel.6451 said:In WvW the situation with necros is far worse than PvP , the slaps on the wrists for scourge barely touched the surface ...the class is utterly Broken

@Arheundel.6451 said:The combination of : perma quickness - perma superspeed in combat and spammable ranged chill makes Necro far too oppressive to fight even for "rangers" which supposedly were to counter necros

Made up statistics are not my concern, whether you like it or not GW2 is not all about PvE we have balance devs for a very good reason.....this is a MMO...not a RPG multiplayer

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper

Reaper was designed to be slow in the first place, slow and hard hitting!

@Arheundel.6451 said:The Balance team cannot be blamed by those who fail to accomplish this much, furthermore my thread is more about PvP/WvW where the quickness uptime is not needed nearly as much...the PvE crowd is safe..nobody after you..The Balance team cannot be blamed by those who fail to accomplish this much, furthermore your thread is in the wrong section of this forum: if it is really about PvP/WvW, post it there, where it belongs! Or under Necro!

Edit:And please, next time do your (PvE) homework and don't throw around with 33,5K Reaper benchmarks while failing to understand that literally ALL other classes have at least one or more builds which outdps the best Necro benchmark (with at least 10% to 30%, btw)

@Arheundel.6451 said:Made up statistics are not my concern, whether you like it or not GW2 is not all about PvE we have balance devs for a very good reason.....this is a MMO...not a RPG multiplayer

I never said the game was all about PvE.

It doesn't detract from the fact that game modes that aren't Open World PvE are only played by a minority of players. This includes instanced PvE such as Fractals and Raids.

@Arheundel.6451 said:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper

Reaper was designed to be slow in the first place, slow and hard hitting!

And it is. All of its attacks are slow as heck. Even with Quickness, Shroud skills have a similar cast speed to every other classes non-Quickness boosted skills.

Plot twist: There is no such thing as a PvE skill design team, so far only PvP and WvW balance team have confirmed there existence. 95% of the change on skill and balance that happen find there source into the sPvP subforum or Reddit. Let's be honest, your thread have higher probabilities to be addressed if it's posted into the sPvP subforum than in the "profession" subforum where devs seem to only dump pre patch note and then forget about it.

@"Dadnir.5038" said:Plot twist: There is no such thing as a PvE skill design team, so far only PvP and WvW balance team have confirmed there existence. 95% of the change on skill and balance that happen find there source into the sPvP subforum or Reddit. Let's be honest, your thread have higher probabilities to be addressed if it's posted into the sPvP subforum than in the "profession" subforum where devs seem to only dump pre patch note and then forget about it.Exactly this! As of late the balance team is far more concerned about PvP/WvW balance (which might actually be a right direction ... but that's not the discussion). As you (=@Arheundel.6451) could've noticed from my last post: PvE (dps) balance is terrible at best (and it might even be better than ever, but also not the discussion), with differences as far as 30% between top and bottom (which is a LOT!).

@Arheundel.6451 said:whether you like it or not GW2 is not all about PvE we have balance devs for a very good reason.....this is a MMO...not a RPG multiplayerYou are completely right. It's not about PvE at all. Balance is all about PvP and as a PvE player you have to live with all the shitty nerfes and buffs they cook up for a game mode nearly dead for years... Necro always being at least 10-20% behind other dps specs in PvE, just because the PvP balance guys need to scale damage down to compensate for the 2nd health pool base mechanic? Sure. Revenants not even having any reasonable power dps spec because they got nerfed and nerfed for years because of PvP balance? Why not? DPS Chronos balanced for PvP too, so their mechanic based on easily destroyable illusions that need to catch up with their targets it completely out of control and overperforming hard in PvE? Guess we can expect even more buffs in the future.

Blaming PvE for bad PvP balance while there are skills split by mode is just rediculous. Fact is: PvE doesn't even have a balance team and the PvP balance team just has no real clue, so they screw up the PvP balance and then fail to realize what it does to PvE too....

@Arheundel.6451 said:GW2 was promoted as a multi gamemode triple A MMO , but right now PvE balance takes absolute precedence above everything else ,

I love to stop people on their first sentence. How do you come to this conclusion? What about the recent necro changes makes you think Anet has buffed it to a point where it's desirable in PVE teams? That's a rather uninformed position to hold if you ask me. NOTHING the necro does at this time makes it a PVE team desirable class. Like, absolutely zero ...

@"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:The Balance team cannot be blamed by those who fail to accomplish this much, furthermore my thread is more about PvP/WvW where the quickness uptime is not needed nearly as much...the PvE crowd is safe..nobody after you..The Balance team cannot be blamed by those who fail to accomplish this much, furthermore your thread is in the wrong section of this forum: if it is really about PvP/WvW, post it there, where it belongs! Or under Necro!

And yet here we are again, Benchmarks don't really mean anything just a golem standing still with all the boons permanently on you, why do people think it means something?

Ele (Weaver) being a perfect example of why benchmarks are pretty bad to go on, while Power BttH being the highest Damage, it's not used in any raid, this doesn't mean though that Weaver is useless and the same goes for Necro

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:The Balance team cannot be blamed by those who fail to accomplish this much, furthermore my thread is more about PvP/WvW where the quickness uptime is not needed nearly as much...the PvE crowd is safe..nobody after you..The Balance team cannot be blamed by those who fail to accomplish this much, furthermore your thread is in the wrong section of this forum: if it is really about PvP/WvW, post it there, where it belongs! Or under Necro!

Hey, tell that to the OP, he/she started with waving that Reaper benchmark, clearly not having done his homework beforehand! This was just a reaction to his/her post to begin with!

Furthermore, like it has been showed multiple times already, real raid statistics (with a high enough 'n') when GW2raidar was still a thing showed even worse gaps between Necro (the worst DPS class) and the top DPS performers, even amongst mediocre players! People tend to forget that though. In other words: in PvP the Necro might be in a decent spot, in WvW ... hardly anymore (also a reason why I dont understand anything from that OP ... it just doesnt make any sense), but in the PvE endgame the Necro is still arguably your worst pick! It brings nothing really interesting to the table that other classes can't do better, except for ressing which means your teamed up for failure to begin with!

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:The Balance team cannot be blamed by those who fail to accomplish this much, furthermore my thread is more about PvP/WvW where the quickness uptime is not needed nearly as much...the PvE crowd is safe..nobody after you..The Balance team cannot be blamed by those who fail to accomplish this much, furthermore your thread is in the wrong section of this forum: if it is really about PvP/WvW, post it there, where it belongs! Or under Necro!

It was just a comment for everyone thinking that benchmarks define what is meta and what is not

Imagine having the balance of a MMO depends on the "ability" of players in killing AI static MOB......absolutely ridiculous .....so apparently necro should be buffed in general because some 16 years old with a TAG said you could not join his group to play the smallest section of the game.

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:And yet: Necro is

still

your worst pick in the PvE endgame ...ANet: please buff the Necro!!!!(in other words, your whole post doesn't make any sense! And I don't even

want

to comment on it in a normal way, don't want to waste my time on such nonsense, it's almost like you're playing a different game, it already starts with the PvE balance takes precedence .... wow! Conveniently forgot

all

the 2020 balance updates before the latest one?)

Btw: this thread is in the wrong forum section!

Sorry but when was the last big buff to necro in PvP/wvw that didn't come with some very big nerfs?

@"Arheundel.6451" said:Imagine having the balance of a MMO depends on the "ability" of players in killing AI static MOB......absolutely ridiculous .....so apparently necro should be buffed in general because some 16 years old with a TAG said you could not join his group to play the smallest section of the game.

It's neither actually ... whatever necro is will be determined by what Anet wants it to do, how they want it to do it.

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:And yet here we are again, Benchmarks don't really mean anything just a golem standing still with all the boons permanently on you, why do people think it means something?

Ele (Weaver) being a perfect example of why benchmarks are pretty bad to go on, while Power BttH being the highest Damage, it's not used in any raid, this doesn't mean though that Weaver is useless and the same goes for NecroDo some 1 minute research and watch the snowcrows recommenadations for endgame content. Reaper is insufficient to mediocre for ever single raid instance, while the other posted builds are rated a lot higher. So your golem argument is untenable.

Speaking about open world: try to solo some champs on the 33.5k reaper build. I'd like to see how far you get. You will notice this build is squishy as hell and every other class in the game offers a lot more sustain on a 33.5k dps build.

Today is a weird day. Bronze divisions players start pvp threads about how broken reaper is in pvp because they can't handle a few chills of a build that can't even cover these with other conditions. And here we can find players that draw performance conclusions from killing trashmobs in the cursed shore map or in a level 1 fractal.

To be fair necro is only good against bad players. Core necro for example is totally useless against player who can actually think and use skills in right time.

I wonder what happened to the opener.

Necromancer, especially Scourge is at most average in competitive modes right now. It is also, by far, the profession with the greatest weaknesses. It can be countered in so many ways. This is something important to remember, these weaknesses “need” to be compensated with something actually strong, otherwise Necromancer would be just useless.

In PvP it basically needs to be escorted by a support most of the time, to not be destroyed in few instants.

Without Reaper’s Onslaught, Reaper would be just trash at duelling, and even with it it is well below average.

Scourge got its Shades nerfed so many times. Now they are just weak and small static AoEs that barely do anything to 2 targets.

The moderation moving this thread into the necromancer subforum grave, that's funny.

Looks like someone lost to a necro and is salty because they thought it was a free kill and turned out it wasn't...

Listen, in competitive modes, necro could do 50k dps and it wouldn't matter because damage is secondary; what you focus on in competitive modes is ways of mitigating damage so blocks, invulnerability, barrier will all counter your damage and those are the things you wanna focus on...and barrier is inferior when you can outright nullify damage with blocks or invul. Necro's greatest and only defense is its shroud/barrier mechanic, and on Reaper is presents a unique challenge because Reaper's Shroud is also its best offence. Our heals all suck unless you manage to get off a Consume Conditions with a lot of different condis on you.Ele can evade for days (with weaver), barrier and become invul and even has some blocks.Mesmers can evade a lot, break targeting, go invisible, and invul.Engies can block, invis, invul, barrier, and has a heal that pretty much restores 80% of their health if they take lethal damage.Guards can block for days, and invul.Warriors have two invuls, blocks, and evades on mobility skills.Thief can almost perma stealth, shadow step, blocks and with DD you get extra evades that give you a lot of disengage potential.Revenant (mostly Herald) has blocks and a heal skill that transforms all in-coming damage as healing for a few seconds so essentially an invul.Ranger has blocks, invul, and stealth.Necro has...shroud/barrier.

So look at that...apart from Necro, every other profession has blocks and apart from necro and thief every other profession has invul. Not to mention all these classes can stack tons of stability while also doing heavy CC. So it doesn't really matter that necro can corrupt stabilty (which would most likely have cover boons) if they're CCed for 10 seconds. It takes a skillful player to survive in, say, WvW on a necro. Yes necro has good debuffing potential...but Anet has actually nerfed that potential in competitive modes. Heck the only buff to necro in competitive modes (self shade and reduced well recharge) were instantly nerfed (reduced target cap for shades and increased recharge duration on wells).

So honestly, stop your boo hooing.

Op clearly have no idea what they are talking about. In pve its one of the lowest performing classes.