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HoT = Dark Souls ? Casual Gamer perspective.

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  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

    its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT
    quitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the end
    if you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that great
    but if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

    I quit core because I thought it was trash, I Came back in HoT and loved it. So I guess people can have the opposit happen to them yes and it goes on a case by case basis. I never had issues with the expansion and I think honestly, if you do? Good. It means the content dared to challenge you, stimulate your mind and even get to you a bit which makes it meaningful and have a lasting impression. If Cantha is like PoF or by the spirits like Core it will be forgettable just like bother of the other two. HoT is the only one I remember with some praise and fondness.... I hope cantha turns out to be more HoT like in content and scale, as well fun than the other two.

  • @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

    its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT
    quitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the end
    if you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that great
    but if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

    I quit core because I thought it was trash, I Came back in HoT and loved it. So I guess people can have the opposit happen to them yes and it goes on a case by case basis. I never had issues with the expansion and I think honestly, if you do? Good. It means the content dared to challenge you, stimulate your mind and even get to you a bit which makes it meaningful and have a lasting impression. If Cantha is like PoF or by the spirits like Core it will be forgettable just like bother of the other two. HoT is the only one I remember with some praise and fondness.... I hope cantha turns out to be more HoT like in content and scale, as well fun than the other two.

    And if it's even more frustrating, everyone will remember it. The strange thing is how some people claim they enjoy being frustrated with their source of enjoyment. Weird how that works, eh? I guess it helps when you want others to suffer as you have suffered, so you don't want any changes. you know, the good ol' "casuals ruining muh game".

    I wonder if this started when dark souls became popular, or if it was like that before? Well, who knows.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yggranya.5201 said:
    And if it's even more frustrating, everyone will remember it. The strange thing is how some people claim they enjoy being frustrated with their source of enjoyment. Weird how that works, eh? I guess it helps when you want others to suffer as you have suffered, so you don't want any changes. you know, the good ol' "casuals ruining muh game".

    It's more like wanting a video game to be an actual... game and not an interactive book. I guess some people just want to read/watch a story unfold instead of actually playing a video game, which is why they don't want anything "challenging". Others don't find that kind of game enjoyable at all.

    I wonder if this started when dark souls became popular, or if it was like that before? Well, who knows.

    Nah. Given how much more hardcore games used to be, even mmorpgs, this has absolutely nothing to do with Dark Souls.

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭

    "Dark Souls" Discourse is about lack of difficulty toggles and a low amount of convenience features (like quicksave), in the service of communicating a very specific "vision" of the game via the foundational gameplay.

    An MMOG can't really have that many difficulty toggles (just the occasional ChallengeMode/HardMode), because it's inherently a big shared space for everyone. The average difficulty of open-world and story content is designed generously, though, with double-telegraphed mechanics, NPCs shouting "this is what you have to do now!" when a weird thing happens, and very, very few bosses that can wipe you out even a full-Zerk geared character with one combo.

    GW2 is abounding in convenience features, including the ability to retry any story fight from an immediate checkpoint. It never actually forces you to do the "Dark Souls" thing of spending five minutes running back to the boss just to get plastered by the same weird skeleton guy hiding in the corner.

    (I'm not saying the way GW2 did it is bad, btw. I think most of the game is reasonably tuned to feel like a fight without punishing the average player with needless repetition.)

    I think HoT was designed to challenge players a little bit, on the basis of what they'd already learned playing Core and Seasons, and it largely succeeded at doing that without creating an impassable barrier. These maps were always designed to be "endgame" stuff that takes some time to really complete from end to end; they get easier as you build familiarity, unlock masteries, and bring in additional abilities from later expansions. If part of the player base doesn't really enjoy that and they choose to interact with the maps during meta trains or ask a guildmate for help during story missions, I think that's ok.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.

    Parts of it are intended to be dark, but if 70% of hot is so dark, it's hard to see anything then you might want to adjust your monitor settings?

    1. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.

    Not even close to "boss mobs", adjust your build/playstyle.

    1. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.

    Events you can participate in order to level up masteries consist mostly of just following zerg and tagging mobs, so I don't exactly see the problem?

    1. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.

    Sucks you actually need to play the game to complete its content? I'm not sure I understand this point.

    1. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.

    Find a group or ask for help in map chat, people do help with them fairly often.

    1. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??

    Life pool doesn't matter because it's %hp. And you don't need that mastery, you literally just need to use any cheap food with health regen per second. Yup, that's all.

    1. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.

    If you don't want to experience new things in the game, then keep replaying core game I guess? Pretty sure it's way too boring to keep doing that for few years for a lot of the players, but to each their own.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2

    Where did you get your "at least 50% if not more gamers" claim from? Let me guess -nowhere? You just try to use "MY VOICE IS THE VOICE OF THE MAJORITY/COMMUNITY!" to push your own opinion on others.
    Also somehow you try claiming that molding the game directly by your own desires and opinions would be a "player driven balance". Well then... what about my opinion? What about opinion of people that clearly disagree with you and don't want to see more core-level snoozfest? Nothing? Ok.

    and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun.

    Then don't rage and improve instead. If something is problematic for you, then try understanding what and why. Then look for a solution, which most probably is already somewhere online readily "googlable" -but if it's not, ask for help ingame or on the forum. If you don't want to improve then you don't exactly deserve progress, because this is an -more or less- action mmorpg, not a telltale point and click interactive story.

    Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Yeah, because waypointing to the beginning of the map, repairing armor for free and then waypointing where you're waypointing in the first place anyways would make too easy. It's better to cripple yourself further by refusing to take one more teleport for -LOL- 3 silver and then attempt a hero point with broken armor. I think I start seeing what your problem is in general.
    btw there's absolutely no need for repair canisters in this game. I kept hoarding my free ones "until I'll need them" and I never did. It has also nothing to do with being "a casual".

    And yes, comming to HoT from Core is a bit of a hit at first, but not exactly because "HoT in general is so hard", it's more because "core is so easy".

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2020

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

    its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT
    quitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the end
    if you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that great
    but if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

    I quit core because I thought it was trash, I Came back in HoT and loved it. So I guess people can have the opposit happen to them yes and it goes on a case by case basis. I never had issues with the expansion and I think honestly, if you do? Good. It means the content dared to challenge you, stimulate your mind and even get to you a bit which makes it meaningful and have a lasting impression. If Cantha is like PoF or by the spirits like Core it will be forgettable just like bother of the other two. HoT is the only one I remember with some praise and fondness.... I hope cantha turns out to be more HoT like in content and scale, as well fun than the other two.

    And if it's even more frustrating, everyone will remember it. The strange thing is how some people claim they enjoy being frustrated with their source of enjoyment. Weird how that works, eh? I guess it helps when you want others to suffer as you have suffered, so you don't want any changes. you know, the good ol' "casuals ruining muh game".

    I wonder if this started when dark souls became popular, or if it was like that before? Well, who knows.

    If this is your understanding of challenge in games then you're way off the mark. Challenge isn't a frustrating experience for players like me because I enjoy the problem solving aspect. Everything in this game is solvable. Once the problem/encounter is solved the execution is generally very easy. Dark souls is this type of game. You play through areas to get information on encounters, understand attack patterns. Once you know the pattern, the execution isn't difficult.

    If you dont like to solve the encounter, look up a guide and have others do that for you. Once you have the appropriate setup, none of the intended solo content in this game is hard to execute.

    Growth mindset vs fixed mindset.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2020

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

    its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT
    quitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the end
    if you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that great
    but if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

    I quit core because I thought it was trash, I Came back in HoT and loved it. So I guess people can have the opposit happen to them yes and it goes on a case by case basis. I never had issues with the expansion and I think honestly, if you do? Good. It means the content dared to challenge you, stimulate your mind and even get to you a bit which makes it meaningful and have a lasting impression. If Cantha is like PoF or by the spirits like Core it will be forgettable just like bother of the other two. HoT is the only one I remember with some praise and fondness.... I hope cantha turns out to be more HoT like in content and scale, as well fun than the other two.

    And if it's even more frustrating, everyone will remember it. The strange thing is how some people claim they enjoy being frustrated with their source of enjoyment. Weird how that works, eh? I guess it helps when you want others to suffer as you have suffered, so you don't want any changes. you know, the good ol' "casuals ruining muh game".

    I wonder if this started when dark souls became popular, or if it was like that before? Well, who knows.

    Interesting how you automatically try to equate "more challenging content" with "frustration" and claim people "suffered through it, so they want others to suffer too". Harder content =/= suffering/frustration. If you just want to keep pressing 1 and smile at auto-dying mobs then stay in starting zones and do just that. For many people that's kind of pointless, repetitve and overally unenjoyable.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

    its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT
    quitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the end
    if you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that great
    but if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

    I quit core because I thought it was trash, I Came back in HoT and loved it. So I guess people can have the opposit happen to them yes and it goes on a case by case basis. I never had issues with the expansion and I think honestly, if you do? Good. It means the content dared to challenge you, stimulate your mind and even get to you a bit which makes it meaningful and have a lasting impression. If Cantha is like PoF or by the spirits like Core it will be forgettable just like bother of the other two. HoT is the only one I remember with some praise and fondness.... I hope cantha turns out to be more HoT like in content and scale, as well fun than the other two.

    yep , its the expansion for those, that didnt like the game in the first place. hot lovers have a game without a start.
    and casuals have a game without expansions. not much to build a future on. unless they do some kind of cataclysm expansion, cantha is gonna bomb.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Viger.1347 said:
    New player here who is currently going through the HoT content and story mode.

    The first thing I noticed was how difficult it was initially, mobs seem to hit harder, have more health and more abilities. Map traversal is often very confusing and quite frustrating at times, places of power are difficult to get to and some hero points are too challenging to achieve without the aid of others.

    So as a new and self-confessed casual player, yeah, I would agree that HoT content is difficult. But I don't think that's the issue. I think the issue is that core Tyria content was such a breeze and so mind numbingly easy that you kind of got too used to the game being like that. And then you enter HoT and the open world/PvE content is vastly more challenging to the point where it feels like a Dark Souls game. But it's the sudden leap in difficulty that I believe is where the issue is, if core Tyria content actually got more difficult the further you leveled and progressed into the story, then that difficulty curve wouldn't be as steep going into HoT.

    The challenge of HoT content was a good wake up call for me personally. In HoT you definitely need to start paying more attention to your surroundings and pattern of enemies, and you actually need to start working on a proper build for your character by utilizing more defensive abilities and working out a proper combat rotation. I believe the difficulty of HoT is a necessary learning curve for all players, however like I said, that learning and difficulty curve going from core to HoT is very steep and can be off-putting to some players.

    Quick edit: I just wanted to say that I haven't played any of the seasons, so I don't know if those pre-HoT seasons ease the difficulty curve going into HoT. Speaking purely from the perspective of someone who went from core straight into HoT.

    but if you didnt like the "numbingly easy" gameplay in core, WHY DID YOU STAY AND BUY THE EXPANSION?WHY???

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ASP.8093 said:
    "Dark Souls" Discourse is about lack of difficulty toggles and a low amount of convenience features (like quicksave), in the service of communicating a very specific "vision" of the game via the foundational gameplay.

    An MMOG can't really have that many difficulty toggles (just the occasional ChallengeMode/HardMode), because it's inherently a big shared space for everyone. The average difficulty of open-world and story content is designed generously, though, with double-telegraphed mechanics, NPCs shouting "this is what you have to do now!" when a weird thing happens, and very, very few bosses that can wipe you out even a full-Zerk geared character with one combo.

    GW2 is abounding in convenience features, including the ability to retry any story fight from an immediate checkpoint. It never actually forces you to do the "Dark Souls" thing of spending five minutes running back to the boss just to get plastered by the same weird skeleton guy hiding in the corner.

    (I'm not saying the way GW2 did it is bad, btw. I think most of the game is reasonably tuned to feel like a fight without punishing the average player with needless repetition.)

    I think HoT was designed to challenge players a little bit, on the basis of what they'd already learned playing Core and Seasons, and it largely succeeded at doing that without creating an impassable barrier. These maps were always designed to be "endgame" stuff that takes some time to really complete from end to end; they get easier as you build familiarity, unlock masteries, and bring in additional abilities from later expansions. If part of the player base doesn't really enjoy that and they choose to interact with the maps during meta trains or ask a guildmate for help during story missions, I think that's ok.

    STO actually has a difficulty selector. and that game was made by a small team in 18 months. so it is technically possible

  • @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Viger.1347 said:
    New player here who is currently going through the HoT content and story mode.

    The first thing I noticed was how difficult it was initially, mobs seem to hit harder, have more health and more abilities. Map traversal is often very confusing and quite frustrating at times, places of power are difficult to get to and some hero points are too challenging to achieve without the aid of others.

    So as a new and self-confessed casual player, yeah, I would agree that HoT content is difficult. But I don't think that's the issue. I think the issue is that core Tyria content was such a breeze and so mind numbingly easy that you kind of got too used to the game being like that. And then you enter HoT and the open world/PvE content is vastly more challenging to the point where it feels like a Dark Souls game. But it's the sudden leap in difficulty that I believe is where the issue is, if core Tyria content actually got more difficult the further you leveled and progressed into the story, then that difficulty curve wouldn't be as steep going into HoT.

    The challenge of HoT content was a good wake up call for me personally. In HoT you definitely need to start paying more attention to your surroundings and pattern of enemies, and you actually need to start working on a proper build for your character by utilizing more defensive abilities and working out a proper combat rotation. I believe the difficulty of HoT is a necessary learning curve for all players, however like I said, that learning and difficulty curve going from core to HoT is very steep and can be off-putting to some players.

    Quick edit: I just wanted to say that I haven't played any of the seasons, so I don't know if those pre-HoT seasons ease the difficulty curve going into HoT. Speaking purely from the perspective of someone who went from core straight into HoT.

    but if you didnt like the "numbingly easy" gameplay in core, WHY DID YOU STAY AND BUY THE EXPANSION?WHY???

    What does this even mean? I never said anything about liking or disliking core Tyria. I just said it's easy when compared to HoT.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2020

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:
    What I find so confusing about this "HoT dropped difficulty out of nowhere" narrative is that stuff like Toxic Alliance or Season 2 Mordrem did kinda prepare you for HoT monsters pretty well, imo.

    never touched those, and i doubt the average player even know of their existance. neither did i BTW
    the names alone are enough to put them at the bottom of my to do list, sound like hardcore stuff IMO

    You're joking, right? This is a bit?

    Nope i'm the same didn't know those existed and don't really care that they do..

    Toxic Alliance events spawn in starter-adjacent zones like Kessex Hills and Gendarran Fields. It's the big scary flower that gives you hallucinations, defended by Krait, Hulks, and Nightmare Court Knights that you have to stomp to death. These are actually baddies from Season 1 story but they're just part of the normal maps now.

    If you play the Season 2 story or even just the maps (Dry Top and Silverwastes), you will run into Mordrem like Terragriffs (the griffon-looking things that hit really hard) and Trashers (the spinny boys). The new enemies for HoT are the Mordrem Guard, the Chakk, and the various dinos. Other types of Mordrem are introduced slowly before you get there.

    Oh those yeah i tried those and got wiped never went back i thought they were some team event gone wrong.

    so, they are nerfing content with one hand, but they are using the other to do THIS?
    thats like revving the engine to full power and still having the BREAKS ON
    killing players in core with this kitten doesnt make them "better", it just makes them want to quit the game
    i cant believe the bad leadership in this company

    Technically doesn't make them quit so much as it makes most avoid said content completely.. Go to any Tyria map and check these Hot events and let me know how many people successfully complete them.. its very few.. most see them and avoid like a plague, usually after their first solo death, i've ressed countless poor souls who attempted those towers..
    And even i forgot this content existed, if anet remove these tomorrow no one would care.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Yggranya.5201 said:
    And if it's even more frustrating, everyone will remember it. The strange thing is how some people claim they enjoy being frustrated with their source of enjoyment. Weird how that works, eh? I guess it helps when you want others to suffer as you have suffered, so you don't want any changes. you know, the good ol' "casuals ruining muh game".

    It's more like wanting a video game to be an actual... game and not an interactive book. I guess some people just want to read/watch a story unfold instead of actually playing a video game, which is why they don't want anything "challenging". Others don't find that kind of game enjoyable at all.

    I wonder if this started when dark souls became popular, or if it was like that before? Well, who knows.

    Nah. Given how much more hardcore games used to be, even mmorpgs, this has absolutely nothing to do with Dark Souls.

    Tyria core was not an interactive book it was an actual game one we all got sold on at Guildwars 2 release, until the content parasites destroyed it for the rest of us..

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2020

    @Viger.1347 said:
    Quick edit: I just wanted to say that I haven't played any of the seasons, so I don't know if those pre-HoT seasons ease the difficulty curve going into HoT. Speaking purely from the perspective of someone who went from core straight into HoT.

    Going from Core directly into HOT is certainly ill advisable but Anet wants players to do that by not offering Season 2 content for free when you purchase an expansion and by making sure Season 1 is lost forever.

    If you want to check the difficulty curve yourself, you can do the following:

    1) In October, when Halloween starts, visit the Mad King's Labyrinth and play the Ascend to Madness mini dungeon, they were the very first content they added to the game, 2 months after release, showing clearly the "path" they were going to take. Half the mobs (Bloody Prince mobs) didn't exist at first, but you can fight mummies, skeletons and the candy corn elementals. As for the dungeon, it's solo friendly and quite interesting.

    2) go and map complete Southsun Cove, that was the first new map they added to the game. In the process you will fight some interesting mobs, including the Young Karka which are great training for the expansions, they teach you not to facetank mob attacks as they are deadly if you do so. Reef Drakes are even stronger but they are much more rare than Young Karka and easy to ignore. Keep in mind Southsun Cove was added a little less than 3 months after release, meaning the "Core" difficulty didn't last long.

    3) During Wintersday play Tixx's dungeon (not toypocalypse). Sadly, they removed the toys from the open world, in the first year of Wintersday you could open those random gifts and get 7 toy princesses for enemies, which, using their tantrum, could easily overwhelm players. They replaced all of them with "barely there" skritt, but you can check the toys in action inside the instance.

    4) Go to Kessex Hills and other areas in Kryta that contain Toxic Alliance mobs. Unfortunately the events are group events, but you can fight the beefed up Krait and Nightmare Court mobs. There are also many unique bosses around Kessex Hills to fight, although they are Champions

    5) Play around Dry Top and the Silverwastes. Try to solo, map explore for example, because following a tag can dilute the actual challenge level. Now remember a lof of the Mordrem were severely nerfed with the launch of Heart of Thorns, but you can fight the "original" versions in Iron Marches. Be advised though, they are either veterans or champions and even the veteran versions are tough to fight (compared to their DT/SW/HOT counterparts)

    Edit
    You can find a lot of the old Season 1 mobs inside Fractals. Molten Alliance mobs in Molten Facility and Molten Boss fractals, Aetherblades in the Aetherblade and Mai Trin fractals, Scarlet's minions inside the Nightmare fractal. You can fight Aetherblades inside the Not So Secret jumping puzzle close to Lion's Arch and in the middle of Edge of the Mists WVW map. Aside from the bosses these mobs used to be regular foes you met out in the wild during their respective Living World episodes. It's why Season 1 kept players interested, with exciting foes to fight and new challenges to complete

    Anet released a new episode with very interesting (and challenging compared to Core) mobs every 2 months at first, and every few weeks later on, keeping players who were bored with Core busy and excited about their game. I guess if they didn't do this and their Season 1 episodes were as boring as Core was the game would be dead by now. Do keep in mind that Core was empty and devoid of players and only Orr had a high population, combined with their latest episode, with the latest content, and the latest/challenging foes. It wasn't until they added rewards to Champions and World Bosses in August 2013 that Core became populated again

    Of course it became populated for the effortless rewards, because without them, most of Core was unpopulated, showing clearly how many players where actually interested in Core zones in the first place.

  • @Dante.1508 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:
    What I find so confusing about this "HoT dropped difficulty out of nowhere" narrative is that stuff like Toxic Alliance or Season 2 Mordrem did kinda prepare you for HoT monsters pretty well, imo.

    never touched those, and i doubt the average player even know of their existance. neither did i BTW
    the names alone are enough to put them at the bottom of my to do list, sound like hardcore stuff IMO

    You're joking, right? This is a bit?

    Nope i'm the same didn't know those existed and don't really care that they do..

    Toxic Alliance events spawn in starter-adjacent zones like Kessex Hills and Gendarran Fields. It's the big scary flower that gives you hallucinations, defended by Krait, Hulks, and Nightmare Court Knights that you have to stomp to death. These are actually baddies from Season 1 story but they're just part of the normal maps now.

    If you play the Season 2 story or even just the maps (Dry Top and Silverwastes), you will run into Mordrem like Terragriffs (the griffon-looking things that hit really hard) and Trashers (the spinny boys). The new enemies for HoT are the Mordrem Guard, the Chakk, and the various dinos. Other types of Mordrem are introduced slowly before you get there.

    Oh those yeah i tried those and got wiped never went back i thought they were some team event gone wrong.

    so, they are nerfing content with one hand, but they are using the other to do THIS?
    thats like revving the engine to full power and still having the BREAKS ON
    killing players in core with this kitten doesnt make them "better", it just makes them want to quit the game
    i cant believe the bad leadership in this company

    Technically doesn't make them quit so much as it makes most avoid said content completely.. Go to any Tyria map and check these Hot events and let me know how many people successfully complete them.. its very few.. most see them and avoid like a plague, usually after their first solo death, i've ressed countless poor souls who attempted those towers..
    And even i forgot this content existed, if anet remove these tomorrow no one would care.

    HoT metas are completed 'round the clock, despite requiring large numbers of players. HP trains are also ubiquitous. It's always been this way, despite haters predicting the death of these maps. They are clearly popular, no matter how much you love to hate them.

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Technically doesn't make them quit so much as it makes most avoid said content completely.. Go to any Tyria map and check these Hot events and let me know how many people successfully complete them.. its very few.. most see them and avoid like a plague, usually after their first solo death, i've ressed countless poor souls who attempted those towers..
    And even i forgot this content existed, if anet remove these tomorrow no one would care.

    HoT metas are completed 'round the clock, despite requiring large numbers of players. HP trains are also ubiquitous. It's always been this way, despite haters predicting the death of these maps. They are clearly popular, no matter how much you love to hate them.

    (This was a side conversation about the LW S1 Toxic Alliance incursions in a few of the central maps like Kessex Hills.)

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2020

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Technically doesn't make them quit so much as it makes most avoid said content completely.. Go to any Tyria map and check these Hot events and let me know how many people successfully complete them.. its very few.. most see them and avoid like a plague, usually after their first solo death, i've ressed countless poor souls who attempted those towers..
    And even i forgot this content existed, if anet remove these tomorrow no one would care.

    HoT metas are completed 'round the clock, despite requiring large numbers of players. HP trains are also ubiquitous. It's always been this way, despite haters predicting the death of these maps. They are clearly popular, no matter how much you love to hate them.

    (This was a side conversation about the LW S1 Toxic Alliance incursions in a few of the central maps like Kessex Hills.)

    Those have the same issue POF meta events had and the same issue World Bosses and Champions in Core Tyria had: no rewards. Content without any rewards is dead content as all the above proved.

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:
    (This was a side conversation about the LW S1 Toxic Alliance incursions in a few of the central maps like Kessex Hills.)

    Those have the same issue POF meta events had and the same issue World Bosses and Champions in Core Tyria had: no rewards. Content without any rewards is dead content as all the above proved.

    I don't go out of my way to farm these things, but I usually do them when I run into them, and the reward is that I get to stomp the Nightmare Court knights like they're PvP players and a pretty unicorn comes out. :sunglasses:

  • @ASP.8093 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Technically doesn't make them quit so much as it makes most avoid said content completely.. Go to any Tyria map and check these Hot events and let me know how many people successfully complete them.. its very few.. most see them and avoid like a plague, usually after their first solo death, i've ressed countless poor souls who attempted those towers..
    And even i forgot this content existed, if anet remove these tomorrow no one would care.

    HoT metas are completed 'round the clock, despite requiring large numbers of players. HP trains are also ubiquitous. It's always been this way, despite haters predicting the death of these maps. They are clearly popular, no matter how much you love to hate them.

    (This was a side conversation about the LW S1 Toxic Alliance incursions in a few of the central maps like Kessex Hills.)

    Oh, I see. Missed that part.

  • @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Viger.1347 said:
    Quick edit: I just wanted to say that I haven't played any of the seasons, so I don't know if those pre-HoT seasons ease the difficulty curve going into HoT. Speaking purely from the perspective of someone who went from core straight into HoT.

    Going from Core directly into HOT is certainly ill advisable but Anet wants players to do that by not offering Season 2 content for free when you purchase an expansion and by making sure Season 1 is lost forever.

    I wasn't aware of the whole episodic seasons as a new player going into the game. I bought the game on a whim while it was on sale. I also thought that meant getting any story-related expansions/DLC. I'm not too hung up over it since I'm not that invested in the story anyway, but I appreciate the guide tho.

  • @maddoctor.2738 said:
    4) Go to Kessex Hills and other areas in Kryta that contain Toxic Alliance mobs. Unfortunately the events are group events, but you can fight the beefed up Krait and Nightmare Court mobs. There are also many unique bosses around Kessex Hills to fight, although they are Champions

    the event "Defend the Vigil siege engineers as they attack the toxic offshoot" is listed as a group event but it solely depends on the time left when you find it. one vigil siege engineer takes the tower down in a lot less than the 10 minutes the event lasts (3-5 min i guess), so you only need to guard one of the three and the tower will fall if there is enough event time left. guarding one engineer means you have to fight at max 2 base and 1 veteran krait and 1 sylvari, not even at the same time but they respawn about 3-4 times until the tower is done. it's actually very easy.

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:
    What I find so confusing about this "HoT dropped difficulty out of nowhere" narrative is that stuff like Toxic Alliance or Season 2 Mordrem did kinda prepare you for HoT monsters pretty well, imo.

    never touched those, and i doubt the average player even know of their existance. neither did i BTW
    the names alone are enough to put them at the bottom of my to do list, sound like hardcore stuff IMO

    You're joking, right? This is a bit?

    Nope i'm the same didn't know those existed and don't really care that they do..

    Toxic Alliance events spawn in starter-adjacent zones like Kessex Hills and Gendarran Fields. It's the big scary flower that gives you hallucinations, defended by Krait, Hulks, and Nightmare Court Knights that you have to stomp to death. These are actually baddies from Season 1 story but they're just part of the normal maps now.

    If you play the Season 2 story or even just the maps (Dry Top and Silverwastes), you will run into Mordrem like Terragriffs (the griffon-looking things that hit really hard) and Trashers (the spinny boys). The new enemies for HoT are the Mordrem Guard, the Chakk, and the various dinos. Other types of Mordrem are introduced slowly before you get there.

    Oh those yeah i tried those and got wiped never went back i thought they were some team event gone wrong.

    so, they are nerfing content with one hand, but they are using the other to do THIS?
    thats like revving the engine to full power and still having the BREAKS ON
    killing players in core with this kitten doesnt make them "better", it just makes them want to quit the game
    i cant believe the bad leadership in this company

    Technically doesn't make them quit so much as it makes most avoid said content completely.. Go to any Tyria map and check these Hot events and let me know how many people successfully complete them.. its very few.. most see them and avoid like a plague, usually after their first solo death, i've ressed countless poor souls who attempted those towers..
    And even i forgot this content existed, if anet remove these tomorrow no one would care.

    people rush past those events because they offer zero reward. the spore sample isn't worth anything any more and it has been the only reason to complete it. on top of that those zones have a huge dead time between events, so even though there is that big green bubble and all those shiny green event mobs there is nothing to do, so why should people be there?
    bandit bosses in the same maps are pretty popular even though some of them are really hard to survive. maybe it's really just the orange circle and side text missing for most players? or the towers are just too easy to bother as they are effortless compared to bandit bosses ...

    @Yggranya.5201 said:
    And if it's even more frustrating, everyone will remember it. The strange thing is how some people claim they enjoy being frustrated with their source of enjoyment. Weird how that works, eh? I guess it helps when you want others to suffer as you have suffered, so you don't want any changes. you know, the good ol' "casuals ruining muh game".

    I wonder if this started when dark souls became popular, or if it was like that before? Well, who knows.

    first of all common games 20+ years ago have been a lot harder than current games. the people that played back then where more invested in gaming, less casual, the casual scene is neither the standard nor a really old thing.

    second, if we'd suffer from games we wouldn't play them. i played many games that ultimately went dull once i reached a specific skill threshold that put me noticeably above my average foe. that is specifically the point where i go in a fight with the expectation to win if i just don't play artificially bad, the point where i can only lose. i never understood people that enjoy that. it's the possibility to get an unexpected win that is the real fun.

    i had it in this game, i triggered the legendary bandit executioner with one other player on accident and it locked us inside before we could run away. the other player died rather fast because he was a thief. i rezzed him about 5 times, even after he fully died, not because i needed him but because it was quite fun to kite around to lure the legend away from his body and try to run in without dying. i eventually died with the executioner at about 20% HP to some misstep i don't remember but it was the most fun i had for months in this game.
    on some other occassion in early HoT i happened to be at the central pact camp in verdant brink when the mordrem wolfs attempted to clean it. i fought at least 5 elites and a couple veterans for several minutes all alone trying to hold the point. even though it was clear from the start that i wouldn't survive it was great fun trying to delay the inevitable as long as possible.
    moments like these are the only moments in this game i actually play my class. i play herald and it frustrates me a lot that i never need half of my class. i only wear a second weapon for staff 5 on breakbars, i barely ever switch in a fight without. i have glint/whatever as legends because i never need to switch that one either. i use my heal skill maybe once a day, passive regen and battle scars keep me up. this game is so mind numbingly easy at times, at any point in core all you can do with skill is maximize your dps and i'm not here for that. PoF offers some threat from some mobs but PoF signature mechanic is being annoying. certainly over half the hostile roster has stuff to annoy you while only a small fraction mean actual threat. permablinding lions, uncleansable leeching condition from a dead sand eel keeping you in combat, sand sharks hiding, exploding choya just to keep you in fight when the fight is done, etc etc (don't get me started on jacarandas). HoT is far better in that aspect, most of the annoying stuff is an actual threat, has an actual meaning. spawn groups mix their strengths so that tendrils and trolls offer artillery support while melee trashs try to keep you busy, teragriffs switch between frontline and artillery, itzel and mushrooms put out the big hits.
    if you think that HoT cc spam is bad then fight djinn who offer a cc that is harder to avoid combined with a bigger health and far less damage just to make the fight take longer for no reason at all.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:
    What I find so confusing about this "HoT dropped difficulty out of nowhere" narrative is that stuff like Toxic Alliance or Season 2 Mordrem did kinda prepare you for HoT monsters pretty well, imo.

    never touched those, and i doubt the average player even know of their existance. neither did i BTW
    the names alone are enough to put them at the bottom of my to do list, sound like hardcore stuff IMO

    You're joking, right? This is a bit?

    Nope i'm the same didn't know those existed and don't really care that they do..

    Toxic Alliance events spawn in starter-adjacent zones like Kessex Hills and Gendarran Fields. It's the big scary flower that gives you hallucinations, defended by Krait, Hulks, and Nightmare Court Knights that you have to stomp to death. These are actually baddies from Season 1 story but they're just part of the normal maps now.

    If you play the Season 2 story or even just the maps (Dry Top and Silverwastes), you will run into Mordrem like Terragriffs (the griffon-looking things that hit really hard) and Trashers (the spinny boys). The new enemies for HoT are the Mordrem Guard, the Chakk, and the various dinos. Other types of Mordrem are introduced slowly before you get there.

    Oh those yeah i tried those and got wiped never went back i thought they were some team event gone wrong.

    so, they are nerfing content with one hand, but they are using the other to do THIS?
    thats like revving the engine to full power and still having the BREAKS ON
    killing players in core with this kitten doesnt make them "better", it just makes them want to quit the game
    i cant believe the bad leadership in this company

    Technically doesn't make them quit so much as it makes most avoid said content completely.. Go to any Tyria map and check these Hot events and let me know how many people successfully complete them.. its very few.. most see them and avoid like a plague, usually after their first solo death, i've ressed countless poor souls who attempted those towers..
    And even i forgot this content existed, if anet remove these tomorrow no one would care.

    HoT metas are completed 'round the clock, despite requiring large numbers of players. HP trains are also ubiquitous. It's always been this way, despite haters predicting the death of these maps. They are clearly popular, no matter how much you love to hate them.

    if they were "popular", there would be more than a handful instances. 1 mio hot players would require something like 5000 ACTIVE instances.
    now count them , and compare the numbers. having a handful of them is "functional", nothing more

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Viger.1347 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Viger.1347 said:
    New player here who is currently going through the HoT content and story mode.

    The first thing I noticed was how difficult it was initially, mobs seem to hit harder, have more health and more abilities. Map traversal is often very confusing and quite frustrating at times, places of power are difficult to get to and some hero points are too challenging to achieve without the aid of others.

    So as a new and self-confessed casual player, yeah, I would agree that HoT content is difficult. But I don't think that's the issue. I think the issue is that core Tyria content was such a breeze and so mind numbingly easy that you kind of got too used to the game being like that. And then you enter HoT and the open world/PvE content is vastly more challenging to the point where it feels like a Dark Souls game. But it's the sudden leap in difficulty that I believe is where the issue is, if core Tyria content actually got more difficult the further you leveled and progressed into the story, then that difficulty curve wouldn't be as steep going into HoT.

    The challenge of HoT content was a good wake up call for me personally. In HoT you definitely need to start paying more attention to your surroundings and pattern of enemies, and you actually need to start working on a proper build for your character by utilizing more defensive abilities and working out a proper combat rotation. I believe the difficulty of HoT is a necessary learning curve for all players, however like I said, that learning and difficulty curve going from core to HoT is very steep and can be off-putting to some players.

    Quick edit: I just wanted to say that I haven't played any of the seasons, so I don't know if those pre-HoT seasons ease the difficulty curve going into HoT. Speaking purely from the perspective of someone who went from core straight into HoT.

    but if you didnt like the "numbingly easy" gameplay in core, WHY DID YOU STAY AND BUY THE EXPANSION?WHY???

    What does this even mean? I never said anything about liking or disliking core Tyria. I just said it's easy when compared to HoT.

    yep, and that is the problem. you said hot was a "good wake up call". that is clearly wrong, since it drove so many players away from the game
    you also believe it is "necessary". a point most of the other players disagreed with

  • Viger.1347Viger.1347 Member ✭✭
    edited September 22, 2020

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Viger.1347 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Viger.1347 said:
    New player here who is currently going through the HoT content and story mode.

    The first thing I noticed was how difficult it was initially, mobs seem to hit harder, have more health and more abilities. Map traversal is often very confusing and quite frustrating at times, places of power are difficult to get to and some hero points are too challenging to achieve without the aid of others.

    So as a new and self-confessed casual player, yeah, I would agree that HoT content is difficult. But I don't think that's the issue. I think the issue is that core Tyria content was such a breeze and so mind numbingly easy that you kind of got too used to the game being like that. And then you enter HoT and the open world/PvE content is vastly more challenging to the point where it feels like a Dark Souls game. But it's the sudden leap in difficulty that I believe is where the issue is, if core Tyria content actually got more difficult the further you leveled and progressed into the story, then that difficulty curve wouldn't be as steep going into HoT.

    The challenge of HoT content was a good wake up call for me personally. In HoT you definitely need to start paying more attention to your surroundings and pattern of enemies, and you actually need to start working on a proper build for your character by utilizing more defensive abilities and working out a proper combat rotation. I believe the difficulty of HoT is a necessary learning curve for all players, however like I said, that learning and difficulty curve going from core to HoT is very steep and can be off-putting to some players.

    Quick edit: I just wanted to say that I haven't played any of the seasons, so I don't know if those pre-HoT seasons ease the difficulty curve going into HoT. Speaking purely from the perspective of someone who went from core straight into HoT.

    but if you didnt like the "numbingly easy" gameplay in core, WHY DID YOU STAY AND BUY THE EXPANSION?WHY???

    What does this even mean? I never said anything about liking or disliking core Tyria. I just said it's easy when compared to HoT.

    yep, and that is the problem. you said hot was a "good wake up call". that is clearly wrong, since it drove so many players away from the game
    you also believe it is "necessary". a point most of the other players disagreed with

    I said it was a good wake up call for ME personally, never spoke for everyone. There's nothing "wrong" about that at all.

    And why wouldn't it be necessary for players to learn and get used to more difficult mechanics and mobs? You need to start somewhere. Better to practice and learn in world content at your own pace than potentially waste time in grouped content like fractals, raids, missions etc where other players may not have the patience for you to learn mechanics.

  • @battledrone.8315 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:
    What I find so confusing about this "HoT dropped difficulty out of nowhere" narrative is that stuff like Toxic Alliance or Season 2 Mordrem did kinda prepare you for HoT monsters pretty well, imo.

    never touched those, and i doubt the average player even know of their existance. neither did i BTW
    the names alone are enough to put them at the bottom of my to do list, sound like hardcore stuff IMO

    You're joking, right? This is a bit?

    Nope i'm the same didn't know those existed and don't really care that they do..

    Toxic Alliance events spawn in starter-adjacent zones like Kessex Hills and Gendarran Fields. It's the big scary flower that gives you hallucinations, defended by Krait, Hulks, and Nightmare Court Knights that you have to stomp to death. These are actually baddies from Season 1 story but they're just part of the normal maps now.

    If you play the Season 2 story or even just the maps (Dry Top and Silverwastes), you will run into Mordrem like Terragriffs (the griffon-looking things that hit really hard) and Trashers (the spinny boys). The new enemies for HoT are the Mordrem Guard, the Chakk, and the various dinos. Other types of Mordrem are introduced slowly before you get there.

    Oh those yeah i tried those and got wiped never went back i thought they were some team event gone wrong.

    so, they are nerfing content with one hand, but they are using the other to do THIS?
    thats like revving the engine to full power and still having the BREAKS ON
    killing players in core with this kitten doesnt make them "better", it just makes them want to quit the game
    i cant believe the bad leadership in this company

    Technically doesn't make them quit so much as it makes most avoid said content completely.. Go to any Tyria map and check these Hot events and let me know how many people successfully complete them.. its very few.. most see them and avoid like a plague, usually after their first solo death, i've ressed countless poor souls who attempted those towers..
    And even i forgot this content existed, if anet remove these tomorrow no one would care.

    HoT metas are completed 'round the clock, despite requiring large numbers of players. HP trains are also ubiquitous. It's always been this way, despite haters predicting the death of these maps. They are clearly popular, no matter how much you love to hate them.

    if they were "popular", there would be more than a handful instances. 1 mio hot players would require something like 5000 ACTIVE instances.
    now count them , and compare the numbers. having a handful of them is "functional", nothing more

    Oh, right. I forget the premise is that core is super popular and has millions of players. LoL Good luck with that one.

  • @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Viger.1347 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Viger.1347 said:
    New player here who is currently going through the HoT content and story mode.

    The first thing I noticed was how difficult it was initially, mobs seem to hit harder, have more health and more abilities. Map traversal is often very confusing and quite frustrating at times, places of power are difficult to get to and some hero points are too challenging to achieve without the aid of others.

    So as a new and self-confessed casual player, yeah, I would agree that HoT content is difficult. But I don't think that's the issue. I think the issue is that core Tyria content was such a breeze and so mind numbingly easy that you kind of got too used to the game being like that. And then you enter HoT and the open world/PvE content is vastly more challenging to the point where it feels like a Dark Souls game. But it's the sudden leap in difficulty that I believe is where the issue is, if core Tyria content actually got more difficult the further you leveled and progressed into the story, then that difficulty curve wouldn't be as steep going into HoT.

    The challenge of HoT content was a good wake up call for me personally. In HoT you definitely need to start paying more attention to your surroundings and pattern of enemies, and you actually need to start working on a proper build for your character by utilizing more defensive abilities and working out a proper combat rotation. I believe the difficulty of HoT is a necessary learning curve for all players, however like I said, that learning and difficulty curve going from core to HoT is very steep and can be off-putting to some players.

    Quick edit: I just wanted to say that I haven't played any of the seasons, so I don't know if those pre-HoT seasons ease the difficulty curve going into HoT. Speaking purely from the perspective of someone who went from core straight into HoT.

    but if you didnt like the "numbingly easy" gameplay in core, WHY DID YOU STAY AND BUY THE EXPANSION?WHY???

    What does this even mean? I never said anything about liking or disliking core Tyria. I just said it's easy when compared to HoT.

    yep, and that is the problem. you said hot was a "good wake up call". that is clearly wrong, since it drove so many players away from the game
    you also believe it is "necessary". a point most of the other players disagreed with

    HoT was the cure to the core game which drove players away with its lack of anything challenging or interesting for players to do. It may have been too little, too late, but it saved the game. See? I can make up my own narratives, too! It's fun!

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Viger.1347 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Viger.1347 said:
    New player here who is currently going through the HoT content and story mode.

    The first thing I noticed was how difficult it was initially, mobs seem to hit harder, have more health and more abilities. Map traversal is often very confusing and quite frustrating at times, places of power are difficult to get to and some hero points are too challenging to achieve without the aid of others.

    So as a new and self-confessed casual player, yeah, I would agree that HoT content is difficult. But I don't think that's the issue. I think the issue is that core Tyria content was such a breeze and so mind numbingly easy that you kind of got too used to the game being like that. And then you enter HoT and the open world/PvE content is vastly more challenging to the point where it feels like a Dark Souls game. But it's the sudden leap in difficulty that I believe is where the issue is, if core Tyria content actually got more difficult the further you leveled and progressed into the story, then that difficulty curve wouldn't be as steep going into HoT.

    The challenge of HoT content was a good wake up call for me personally. In HoT you definitely need to start paying more attention to your surroundings and pattern of enemies, and you actually need to start working on a proper build for your character by utilizing more defensive abilities and working out a proper combat rotation. I believe the difficulty of HoT is a necessary learning curve for all players, however like I said, that learning and difficulty curve going from core to HoT is very steep and can be off-putting to some players.

    Quick edit: I just wanted to say that I haven't played any of the seasons, so I don't know if those pre-HoT seasons ease the difficulty curve going into HoT. Speaking purely from the perspective of someone who went from core straight into HoT.

    but if you didnt like the "numbingly easy" gameplay in core, WHY DID YOU STAY AND BUY THE EXPANSION?WHY???

    What does this even mean? I never said anything about liking or disliking core Tyria. I just said it's easy when compared to HoT.

    yep, and that is the problem. you said hot was a "good wake up call". that is clearly wrong, since it drove so many players away from the game
    you also believe it is "necessary". a point most of the other players disagreed with

    HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:
    HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

    POF maps have the same rewards, require far less people to complete AND take far less time to complete. Yet they are much less populated than HOT maps. Makes you think right? And I thought the majority of players that play this game are casuals that enjoy the Core game, then how do you explain that more players play outside of it? How do you explain that Core Tyria was dead until the August 2013 patch hit? If players enjoyed it so much that is

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 22, 2020

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Viger.1347 said:
    New player here who is currently going through the HoT content and story mode.

    The first thing I noticed was how difficult it was initially, mobs seem to hit harder, have more health and more abilities. Map traversal is often very confusing and quite frustrating at times, places of power are difficult to get to and some hero points are too challenging to achieve without the aid of others.

    So as a new and self-confessed casual player, yeah, I would agree that HoT content is difficult. But I don't think that's the issue. I think the issue is that core Tyria content was such a breeze and so mind numbingly easy that you kind of got too used to the game being like that. And then you enter HoT and the open world/PvE content is vastly more challenging to the point where it feels like a Dark Souls game. But it's the sudden leap in difficulty that I believe is where the issue is, if core Tyria content actually got more difficult the further you leveled and progressed into the story, then that difficulty curve wouldn't be as steep going into HoT.

    The challenge of HoT content was a good wake up call for me personally. In HoT you definitely need to start paying more attention to your surroundings and pattern of enemies, and you actually need to start working on a proper build for your character by utilizing more defensive abilities and working out a proper combat rotation. I believe the difficulty of HoT is a necessary learning curve for all players, however like I said, that learning and difficulty curve going from core to HoT is very steep and can be off-putting to some players.

    Quick edit: I just wanted to say that I haven't played any of the seasons, so I don't know if those pre-HoT seasons ease the difficulty curve going into HoT. Speaking purely from the perspective of someone who went from core straight into HoT.

    but if you didnt like the "numbingly easy" gameplay in core, WHY DID YOU STAY AND BUY THE EXPANSION?WHY???

    New content and expectation of the game getting its difficulty levels ramped up seeing how it starts at level 80 (after plenty of time to get familiarized with available classes/builds, game mechanics and getting appropriate gear on the way) instead of being a 1-80 tutorial zone?

    ...but if you enjoy smashing mobs by pressing 1 and never losing hp then WHY DID YOU EVER MOVE OUT OF THE STARTING ZONES? WHY??? Just stay there and keep that "1" button pressed, apparently that's all the fun and variety you need?

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 22, 2020

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Viger.1347 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Viger.1347 said:
    New player here who is currently going through the HoT content and story mode.

    The first thing I noticed was how difficult it was initially, mobs seem to hit harder, have more health and more abilities. Map traversal is often very confusing and quite frustrating at times, places of power are difficult to get to and some hero points are too challenging to achieve without the aid of others.

    So as a new and self-confessed casual player, yeah, I would agree that HoT content is difficult. But I don't think that's the issue. I think the issue is that core Tyria content was such a breeze and so mind numbingly easy that you kind of got too used to the game being like that. And then you enter HoT and the open world/PvE content is vastly more challenging to the point where it feels like a Dark Souls game. But it's the sudden leap in difficulty that I believe is where the issue is, if core Tyria content actually got more difficult the further you leveled and progressed into the story, then that difficulty curve wouldn't be as steep going into HoT.

    The challenge of HoT content was a good wake up call for me personally. In HoT you definitely need to start paying more attention to your surroundings and pattern of enemies, and you actually need to start working on a proper build for your character by utilizing more defensive abilities and working out a proper combat rotation. I believe the difficulty of HoT is a necessary learning curve for all players, however like I said, that learning and difficulty curve going from core to HoT is very steep and can be off-putting to some players.

    Quick edit: I just wanted to say that I haven't played any of the seasons, so I don't know if those pre-HoT seasons ease the difficulty curve going into HoT. Speaking purely from the perspective of someone who went from core straight into HoT.

    but if you didnt like the "numbingly easy" gameplay in core, WHY DID YOU STAY AND BUY THE EXPANSION?WHY???

    What does this even mean? I never said anything about liking or disliking core Tyria. I just said it's easy when compared to HoT.

    yep, and that is the problem. you said hot was a "good wake up call". that is clearly wrong, since it drove so many players away from the game
    you also believe it is "necessary". a point most of the other players disagreed with

    How do you know how many players it "drove away"? How do you know what exactly "drove away" the players that stopped playing at any given moment of the game development? Do you really believe that people stuck with core repeatedly pressing one key without any challenging content or change to the way they need to play isn't driving people away simply by being boring/repetitive?

  • kraai.7265kraai.7265 Member ✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

    its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT
    quitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the end
    if you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that great
    but if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

    First of all "YOU" liked core, not "we".
    Second, core tyria is hands down one of the most boring experiences I had in all the mmorpgs I've played, you just run around chasing vistas, completing those stupid hearts, yeah it might be cool that gw2 doesn't have any "go kill 50 bulls and come back" quests, yet those freaking hearts are the same or sometimes worst fun wise.
    There is not even a single mob that can kill you there unless you just afk, even world bosses, the best world boss design you will see it on that black phantom if you start as human, but thats it, a pretty huge mob with 3 crosshairs and a few animations, luckluster, and the endgame are dungeons, which are so easy, and need a huge revamp for so long already, it's pointless.
    I myself for example started enjoying the pve in this game after reaching hot, the old one, not this crappy nerfed version we got now, not only it's so heavily nerfed you have mounts to even skip the whole maps today, and quitted the game after watching how easy pof was, same as core but with more lag, oh sorry i mean more flashy colors and animations.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2020

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

    POF maps have the same rewards, require far less people to complete AND take far less time to complete. Yet they are much less populated than HOT maps. Makes you think right? And I thought the majority of players that play this game are casuals that enjoy the Core game, then how do you explain that more players play outside of it? How do you explain that Core Tyria was dead until the August 2013 patch hit? If players enjoyed it so much that is

    No it doesn't POF maps are highly unstable, but on a whole are just as popular as HoT. I play Core Tyria all the time and the maps don't seem dead at all, there are lots of customers in them.

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

    its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT
    quitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the end
    if you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that great
    but if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

    First of all "YOU" liked core, not "we".
    Second, core tyria is hands down one of the most boring experiences I had in all the mmorpgs I've played, you just run around chasing vistas, completing those stupid hearts, yeah it might be cool that gw2 doesn't have any "go kill 50 bulls and come back" quests, yet those freaking hearts are the same or sometimes worst fun wise.
    There is not even a single mob that can kill you there unless you just afk, even world bosses, the best world boss design you will see it on that black phantom if you start as human, but thats it, a pretty huge mob with 3 crosshairs and a few animations, luckluster, and the endgame are dungeons, which are so easy, and need a huge revamp for so long already, it's pointless.
    I myself for example started enjoying the pve in this game after reaching hot, the old one, not this crappy nerfed version we got now, not only it's so heavily nerfed you have mounts to even skip the whole maps today, and quitted the game after watching how easy pof was, same as core but with more lag, oh sorry i mean more flashy colors and animations.

    I also prefer Core so technically its "we" and so did the op.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    if they were "popular", there would be more than a handful instances. 1 mio hot players would require something like 5000 ACTIVE instances.
    now count them , and compare the numbers. having a handful of them is "functional", nothing more

    The core game which sold 5 million never had 5000 active instances either. If it was so popular it should've had (using your number) 25000 ACTIVE instances, but it never had that many. Not even close

    and that is industry standard. they still had over a mio players, that was ready for more. a number, that was magically halfed with the arrival pof.
    i expect pof to to have roughly the same effect. now youre looking at 200-300 k sales for cantha. i wont be surprised if ncsoft has to step in again

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:
    What I find so confusing about this "HoT dropped difficulty out of nowhere" narrative is that stuff like Toxic Alliance or Season 2 Mordrem did kinda prepare you for HoT monsters pretty well, imo.

    never touched those, and i doubt the average player even know of their existance. neither did i BTW
    the names alone are enough to put them at the bottom of my to do list, sound like hardcore stuff IMO

    You're joking, right? This is a bit?

    Nope i'm the same didn't know those existed and don't really care that they do..

    Toxic Alliance events spawn in starter-adjacent zones like Kessex Hills and Gendarran Fields. It's the big scary flower that gives you hallucinations, defended by Krait, Hulks, and Nightmare Court Knights that you have to stomp to death. These are actually baddies from Season 1 story but they're just part of the normal maps now.

    If you play the Season 2 story or even just the maps (Dry Top and Silverwastes), you will run into Mordrem like Terragriffs (the griffon-looking things that hit really hard) and Trashers (the spinny boys). The new enemies for HoT are the Mordrem Guard, the Chakk, and the various dinos. Other types of Mordrem are introduced slowly before you get there.

    Oh those yeah i tried those and got wiped never went back i thought they were some team event gone wrong.

    so, they are nerfing content with one hand, but they are using the other to do THIS?
    thats like revving the engine to full power and still having the BREAKS ON
    killing players in core with this kitten doesnt make them "better", it just makes them want to quit the game
    i cant believe the bad leadership in this company

    Technically doesn't make them quit so much as it makes most avoid said content completely.. Go to any Tyria map and check these Hot events and let me know how many people successfully complete them.. its very few.. most see them and avoid like a plague, usually after their first solo death, i've ressed countless poor souls who attempted those towers..
    And even i forgot this content existed, if anet remove these tomorrow no one would care.

    HoT metas are completed 'round the clock, despite requiring large numbers of players. HP trains are also ubiquitous. It's always been this way, despite haters predicting the death of these maps. They are clearly popular, no matter how much you love to hate them.

    if they were "popular", there would be more than a handful instances. 1 mio hot players would require something like 5000 ACTIVE instances.
    now count them , and compare the numbers. having a handful of them is "functional", nothing more

    Oh, right. I forget the premise is that core is super popular and has millions of players. LoL Good luck with that one.

    yep, a 7 year old mmo without expansions isnt as populated, as it was at launch, what a shocker....

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

    its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT
    quitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the end
    if you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that great
    but if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

    First of all "YOU" liked core, not "we".
    Second, core tyria is hands down one of the most boring experiences I had in all the mmorpgs I've played, you just run around chasing vistas, completing those stupid hearts, yeah it might be cool that gw2 doesn't have any "go kill 50 bulls and come back" quests, yet those freaking hearts are the same or sometimes worst fun wise.
    There is not even a single mob that can kill you there unless you just afk, even world bosses, the best world boss design you will see it on that black phantom if you start as human, but thats it, a pretty huge mob with 3 crosshairs and a few animations, luckluster, and the endgame are dungeons, which are so easy, and need a huge revamp for so long already, it's pointless.
    I myself for example started enjoying the pve in this game after reaching hot, the old one, not this crappy nerfed version we got now, not only it's so heavily nerfed you have mounts to even skip the whole maps today, and quitted the game after watching how easy pof was, same as core but with more lag, oh sorry i mean more flashy colors and animations.

    the fact, that they nerfed hot is proof, that it didnt do well. and it is not normal to buy expansions in a game, that you HATE.
    polarization is always bad, and hot has divided the community, where it should had done the opposite
    pof has many issues too, being easier than hot wont save it. but at least it has normal maps to play on.
    the kind of gameplay you want prolly wont be in a big mmo (at least not for long)
    big mmos need many players, and you wont get those without some easy bread&butter content

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

    POF maps have the same rewards, require far less people to complete AND take far less time to complete. Yet they are much less populated than HOT maps. Makes you think right? And I thought the majority of players that play this game are casuals that enjoy the Core game, then how do you explain that more players play outside of it? How do you explain that Core Tyria was dead until the August 2013 patch hit? If players enjoyed it so much that is

    No it doesn't POF maps are highly unstable, but on a whole are just as popular as HoT. I play Core Tyria all the time and the maps don't seem dead at all, there are lots of customers in them.

    LFG listings disagree with POF maps being as popular as HOT maps. I'm sure you have enough data to support otherwise.
    And as for your argument about rewards I thought casual players play for fun and not rewards. I guess that's wrong.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    if they were "popular", there would be more than a handful instances. 1 mio hot players would require something like 5000 ACTIVE instances.
    now count them , and compare the numbers. having a handful of them is "functional", nothing more

    The core game which sold 5 million never had 5000 active instances either. If it was so popular it should've had (using your number) 25000 ACTIVE instances, but it never had that many. Not even close

    and that is industry standard. they still had over a mio players, that was ready for more. a number, that was magically halfed with the arrival pof.
    i expect pof to to have roughly the same effect. now youre looking at 200-300 k sales for cantha. i wont be surprised if ncsoft has to step in again

    How do you figure they had over a million players when HOT launched?
    Your source about that number halved with the arrival of POF?

    So let me get this, it's industry standard for a game to lose 90% of their playerbase and no cause for concern, or cause for that core game to make changes, but if an expansion loses players it's the end of the world and it's not an industry standard. Nice logic there

  • Mad Queen Malafide.7512Mad Queen Malafide.7512 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2020

    HOT is indeed a lot harder than any of the GW2 content, but I wouldn't want it changed.

    Yes, hero points often can't be solood. But it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to ask in map chat for players to help out. Players in GW2 are very helpful and there are often large groups of players flocking through HoT's maps.

    No, it isn't Dark Souls hard. Dark Souls is easier than most of HoT's content and more forgiving. Bosses in DS all have clear tells and windups to attacks, and almost any build can take down almost any boss. Plus the game allows you to outlevel your opponents, eventually making any fight a breeze.

    You've simply run into the first true obstacle in GW2: content that is a bit of a challenge. Now you may find that the builds you've been using all this time aren't good enough. And since GW2's tells and windups aren't as good as in Dark Souls, and the effect spam creates a lot of visual noise, it can be hard to see attacks coming. It all comes down to memorization, and using a build that allows you to endure a couple of hits.

    Yes, the map design is frustrating to navigate. It is what it is. Vertical maps are a pain.

    Yes, mobs are much tougher and more deadly than anywhere else in the game. But I think it is important to note why they are so much tougher. It's because most builds are really really bad. Players either go full glas cannon, with no defensive traits or skills what so ever, or they just do so little damage, that combat takes forever. I needed to revise my own build to deal with HoT, but I don't think that's a bad thing. HoT mobs also spam a lot of conditions, so condition removal is a lot more important here than anywhere else in the game.

  • @Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:
    HOT is indeed a lot harder than any of the GW2 content, but I wouldn't want it changed.

    Yes, hero points often can't be solood. But it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to ask in map chat for players to help out. Players in GW2 are very helpful and there are often large groups of players flocking through HoT's maps.

    No, it isn't Dark Souls hard. Dark Souls is easier than HoT's content and more forgiving. You've simply run into the first true obstacle in the game: content that is a bit of a challenge, and now you may find that the builds you've been using all this time aren't good enough.

    Yes, the map design is frustrating to navigate. It is what it is. Vertical maps are a pain.

    Yes, mobs are much tougher and more deadly than anywhere else in the game. But I think it is important to note why they are so much tougher. It's because most builds are really really bad. Players either go full glas cannon, with no defensive traits or skills what so ever, or they just do so little damage, that combat takes forever. I needed to revise my own build to deal with HoT, but I don't think that's a bad thing.

    Build issue is kinda a result of core. Core does not really matter much what build you use so you end up with the thinking what you run is great then hot comes and shows you werent as good you thought then a mmo is designed for solo it kinda failed its s a mmo you are after all supposed to play with others. Most issues could be solved by ramping difficulty up slowly in core so a learning curve exist

  • Mad Queen Malafide.7512Mad Queen Malafide.7512 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2020

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Build issue is kinda a result of core. Core does not really matter much what build you use so you end up with the thinking what you run is great then hot comes and shows you werent as good you thought then a mmo is designed for solo it kinda failed its s a mmo you are after all supposed to play with others. Most issues could be solved by ramping difficulty up slowly in core so a learning curve exist

    You have hit the nail on the head. Indeed the core game does a very poor job preparing players for the harder content in HoT. It also doesn't teach players how to make builds; they are left to figure that out for themselves, and many players never figure it out at all. Path of Fire and Fractals are much better tutorials for some of the more complex boss mechanics and the breakbar, but they may might not be the first content that players turn to after finishing the core campaign.

    And how is a player supposed to know which insignia's to use and which runes? The default assumption would be that they all serve a purpose, but they don't. Some are just terrible, and that greatly affects how easy or hard the game is for you. When I just started playing the game, I invested a lot in toughness, thinking that would make me more resilient. But I eventually learned through frustration and shame about the diminishing returns of toughness. The game doesn't actually teach you that.

    So if you go straight into Heart of Thorns right after beating the core game, with the same build, you are probably going to have a bad time. Foes hit hard in HoT, and they spam conditions like crazy. They have attacks and abilities that are not found anywhere in the core game, and they have attacks that you actually need to dodge. Understanding the breakbar also becomes a lot more important.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

    POF maps have the same rewards, require far less people to complete AND take far less time to complete. Yet they are much less populated than HOT maps. Makes you think right? And I thought the majority of players that play this game are casuals that enjoy the Core game, then how do you explain that more players play outside of it? How do you explain that Core Tyria was dead until the August 2013 patch hit? If players enjoyed it so much that is

    No it doesn't POF maps are highly unstable, but on a whole are just as popular as HoT. I play Core Tyria all the time and the maps don't seem dead at all, there are lots of customers in them.

    You've stated over the past several weeks many times that you quit this game for SWTOR.
    And now you are on Core maps "all the time"?

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2020

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

    POF maps have the same rewards, require far less people to complete AND take far less time to complete. Yet they are much less populated than HOT maps. Makes you think right? And I thought the majority of players that play this game are casuals that enjoy the Core game, then how do you explain that more players play outside of it? How do you explain that Core Tyria was dead until the August 2013 patch hit? If players enjoyed it so much that is

    No it doesn't POF maps are highly unstable, but on a whole are just as popular as HoT. I play Core Tyria all the time and the maps don't seem dead at all, there are lots of customers in them.

    You've stated over the past several weeks many times that you quit this game for SWTOR.
    And now you are on Core maps "all the time"?

    I play Both, i also play Fallout 76 and Kingdoms of Amalur Re-Reckoning.. Your point is? Of course i play Tyria maps when i'm not trying to get characters through the stories, or chase hero points.. I'm not a sadist i prefer a less tough time in gaming.

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

    its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT
    quitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the end
    if you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that great
    but if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

    First of all "YOU" liked core, not "we".
    Second, core tyria is hands down one of the most boring experiences I had in all the mmorpgs I've played, you just run around chasing vistas, completing those stupid hearts, yeah it might be cool that gw2 doesn't have any "go kill 50 bulls and come back" quests, yet those freaking hearts are the same or sometimes worst fun wise.
    There is not even a single mob that can kill you there unless you just afk, even world bosses, the best world boss design you will see it on that black phantom if you start as human, but thats it, a pretty huge mob with 3 crosshairs and a few animations, luckluster, and the endgame are dungeons, which are so easy, and need a huge revamp for so long already, it's pointless.
    I myself for example started enjoying the pve in this game after reaching hot, the old one, not this crappy nerfed version we got now, not only it's so heavily nerfed you have mounts to even skip the whole maps today, and quitted the game after watching how easy pof was, same as core but with more lag, oh sorry i mean more flashy colors and animations.

    the fact, that they nerfed hot is proof, that it didnt do well. and it is not normal to buy expansions in a game, that you HATE.
    polarization is always bad, and hot has divided the community, where it should had done the opposite
    pof has many issues too, being easier than hot wont save it. but at least it has normal maps to play on.
    the kind of gameplay you want prolly wont be in a big mmo (at least not for long)
    big mmos need many players, and you wont get those without some easy bread&butter content

    They didn't nerf the right aspects, thats the issue, at least my issue..

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2020

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

    POF maps have the same rewards, require far less people to complete AND take far less time to complete. Yet they are much less populated than HOT maps. Makes you think right? And I thought the majority of players that play this game are casuals that enjoy the Core game, then how do you explain that more players play outside of it? How do you explain that Core Tyria was dead until the August 2013 patch hit? If players enjoyed it so much that is

    No it doesn't POF maps are highly unstable, but on a whole are just as popular as HoT. I play Core Tyria all the time and the maps don't seem dead at all, there are lots of customers in them.

    You've stated over the past several weeks many times that you quit this game for SWTOR.
    And now you are on Core maps "all the time"?

    I play Both, i also play Fallout 76 and Kingdoms of Amalur Re-Reckoning.. Your point is? Of course i play Tyria maps when i'm not trying to get characters through the stories, or chase hero points.. I'm not a sadist i prefer a less tough time in gaming.

    Do we really need to search for the number of times you've said you are no longer playing this game?
    Because the posts are there.

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2020

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

    POF maps have the same rewards, require far less people to complete AND take far less time to complete. Yet they are much less populated than HOT maps. Makes you think right? And I thought the majority of players that play this game are casuals that enjoy the Core game, then how do you explain that more players play outside of it? How do you explain that Core Tyria was dead until the August 2013 patch hit? If players enjoyed it so much that is

    No it doesn't POF maps are highly unstable, but on a whole are just as popular as HoT. I play Core Tyria all the time and the maps don't seem dead at all, there are lots of customers in them.

    You've stated over the past several weeks many times that you quit this game for SWTOR.
    And now you are on Core maps "all the time"?

    I play Both, i also play Fallout 76 and Kingdoms of Amalur Re-Reckoning.. Your point is? Of course i play Tyria maps when i'm not trying to get characters through the stories, or chase hero points.. I'm not a sadist i prefer a less tough time in gaming.

    Do we really need to search for the number of times you've said you are no longer playing this game?
    Because the posts are there.

    I do i take breaks my last break was 9 months.. I come back hoping the game will get overhauls in the direction it was sold to me as at GW2 release. Nothing you say will ever change that.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2020

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

    its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT
    quitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the end
    if you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that great
    but if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

    First of all "YOU" liked core, not "we".
    Second, core tyria is hands down one of the most boring experiences I had in all the mmorpgs I've played, you just run around chasing vistas, completing those stupid hearts, yeah it might be cool that gw2 doesn't have any "go kill 50 bulls and come back" quests, yet those freaking hearts are the same or sometimes worst fun wise.
    There is not even a single mob that can kill you there unless you just afk, even world bosses, the best world boss design you will see it on that black phantom if you start as human, but thats it, a pretty huge mob with 3 crosshairs and a few animations, luckluster, and the endgame are dungeons, which are so easy, and need a huge revamp for so long already, it's pointless.
    I myself for example started enjoying the pve in this game after reaching hot, the old one, not this crappy nerfed version we got now, not only it's so heavily nerfed you have mounts to even skip the whole maps today, and quitted the game after watching how easy pof was, same as core but with more lag, oh sorry i mean more flashy colors and animations.

    the fact, that they nerfed hot is proof, that it didnt do well. and it is not normal to buy expansions in a game, that you HATE.
    polarization is always bad, and hot has divided the community, where it should had done the opposite
    pof has many issues too, being easier than hot wont save it. but at least it has normal maps to play on.
    the kind of gameplay you want prolly wont be in a big mmo (at least not for long)
    big mmos need many players, and you wont get those without some easy bread&butter content

    What proof? See, you don't even undersand why it was nerfed and then you come up with things like that as a supposed argument for your "truths". It got nerfed because after the obvious initial rise of activity when everyone was sitting in hot maps to complete the content/achievements/collections/whatever they wanted AND the release of another expansion+LW episodes, people are divided between zones more than before. Less people in ONE zone, because there's CONSTANTLY more zones in the game equals harder time to gather people needed to complete the content, which wasn't the problem before for obvious reasons. It doesn't prove anything you claim it does and it's perfectly understandable. Stop trying to bend the facts to match your agenda.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2020

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

    POF maps have the same rewards, require far less people to complete AND take far less time to complete. Yet they are much less populated than HOT maps. Makes you think right? And I thought the majority of players that play this game are casuals that enjoy the Core game, then how do you explain that more players play outside of it? How do you explain that Core Tyria was dead until the August 2013 patch hit? If players enjoyed it so much that is

    No it doesn't POF maps are highly unstable, but on a whole are just as popular as HoT. I play Core Tyria all the time and the maps don't seem dead at all, there are lots of customers in them.

    You've stated over the past several weeks many times that you quit this game for SWTOR.
    And now you are on Core maps "all the time"?

    I play Both, i also play Fallout 76 and Kingdoms of Amalur Re-Reckoning.. Your point is? Of course i play Tyria maps when i'm not trying to get characters through the stories, or chase hero points.. I'm not a sadist i prefer a less tough time in gaming.

    Do we really need to search for the number of times you've said you are no longer playing this game?
    Because the posts are there.

    I do i take breaks my last break was 9 months.. I come back hoping the game will get overhauls in the direction it was sold to me as at GW2 release. Nothing you say will ever change that.

    You can always sit in core areas like apparently you want, what's your problem exactly? You want to hold "1" on a different mob?
    ...and what exactly were you told when they sold gw2 to you at release?