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HoT = Dark Souls ? Casual Gamer perspective.

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  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2020

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    HoT map completion has been done with a level 2 character several times; champ hero points obviously leeched from an HP train.

    That doesn't really speak to a casual's experience though, and I'm talking about a casual's experience

    Define casual.

    If a level 2 character can go through HoT without any issues, where everything aggros from beyond 2K range and will one-shot you to completely dead, I'm sure others will have no issues.

    The maps do not have swarms of enemies in locations except for during certain events.

    i don't know what to tell you, I've been ambushed before (especially pocket raptors but not exclusively pocket raptors)

    For pocket raptors, you want to kill them immediately. Use your burst skills on them. I don't recall any other mobs ambushing players.

    The enemies all have similar mechanics just like the PoF enemies .You listed the djinn, hydras, and one other mob type as being challenging but not difficult and yet HoT enemies really are no different from them.

    the enemies in HoT are both challenging and difficult, while the enemies in PoF are challenging but not difficult. the two terms aren't interchangeable.

    As I said in my post, the enemies in HoT are really no different from those in PoF. They all have mechanics which make them easy once you know what they are and how to perform them. There will be a learning curve but it's really no different from that in PoF and the living stories.

    I've asked which HoT enemies you have found difficulties with but you never answered the question. I asked where in HoT that you encounters swarms of enemies which you never answered.

    Generally speaking, most if not all HoT enemies are difficult, and generally all around HoT maps. I can't really point to specifics because it's been a while, and it's not like i need to go back to HoT maps for anything since i have all the masteries completed, so i just never venture there anymore, and I'm not going to make myself miserable by going back to HoT just to see which specific places and which specific mobs are unbalanced and where. Just because you don't find it difficult doesn't mean it's not difficult for casual players.

    If you're saying most, if not all, then it's a player skill issue and not one involving the mobs themselves. This is especially true if you hold all content released since HoT as not being as "difficult". There are many casual players who have no issues. Just because you have issues, and self-describe yourself and a casual, doesn't mean that your own personal experience is represents those of others who label themselves as casual. I constantly see players who wear "casual" as some sort of banner and then act as if it's some sort of handicap to be so even though plenty of players who call themselves casual have completed all content in this game.

  • Katelynn.6593Katelynn.6593 Member ✭✭✭

    HoT is definitely a group activity for me.

    Metas. LFG or looking to see if a commander tag is on the map.

    Hero point trains on LFG.

    I just don't think HoT is designed for solo play for 70%+ players. I think it's designed with a group in mind.

    HoT doesn't make me angry because I play it as intended, with a group.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Bish.8627 said:
    The jump from vanilla to HoT is pretty sharp for a new player

    That's normal since there is supposed to be two living world seasons in-between core and hot. A player isn't even required to visit Southsun Cove before going into hot. Those Young Karka are excellent "training" for fresh level 80s to test their abilities.

    i have never seen an mmo where the difficulty varies so much as this game. it is NOT normal to do it this way.
    other devs try to avoid it, you dont want all the spices in one bite either

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I ask because unless you have data then you're simply going by your experience. For example,raiders may find raids easy from their experience but this doesn't necessarily mean that raids are easy as a fact. It only means that raids are easy for them. Just like how HoT is more difficult for you than elsewhere based on your experience playing but this doesn't necessarily mean that HoT is actually more difficult. When you base something on your experience, it becomes subjective and no longer a fact.

    So does my experience count for nothing? This thread exists for a reason.

    To other players yes it count for nothing, to you no it counts since its your experience.

    even the most asocial players cant play an mmo in a bubble, you may not respect other peoples opinions, but you have to accept, that they HAVE them
    "when you base something on your experience, it becomes subjective and no longer a fact"....then i guess we have to dismiss ALL opinions , except FROM THOSE , WHO HAVENT PLAYED THE GAME!!! wow....

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    HoT map completion has been done with a level 2 character several times; champ hero points obviously leeched from an HP train.

    That doesn't really speak to a casual's experience though, and I'm talking about a casual's experience

    Define casual.

    If a level 2 character can go through HoT without any issues, where everything aggros from beyond 2K range and will one-shot you to completely dead, I'm sure others will have no issues.

    The maps do not have swarms of enemies in locations except for during certain events.

    i don't know what to tell you, I've been ambushed before (especially pocket raptors but not exclusively pocket raptors)

    For pocket raptors, you want to kill them immediately. Use your burst skills on them. I don't recall any other mobs ambushing players.

    The enemies all have similar mechanics just like the PoF enemies .You listed the djinn, hydras, and one other mob type as being challenging but not difficult and yet HoT enemies really are no different from them.

    the enemies in HoT are both challenging and difficult, while the enemies in PoF are challenging but not difficult. the two terms aren't interchangeable.

    As I said in my post, the enemies in HoT are really no different from those in PoF. They all have mechanics which make them easy once you know what they are and how to perform them. There will be a learning curve but it's really no different from that in PoF and the living stories.

    I've asked which HoT enemies you have found difficulties with but you never answered the question. I asked where in HoT that you encounters swarms of enemies which you never answered.

    Generally speaking, most if not all HoT enemies are difficult, and generally all around HoT maps. I can't really point to specifics because it's been a while, and it's not like i need to go back to HoT maps for anything since i have all the masteries completed, so i just never venture there anymore, and I'm not going to make myself miserable by going back to HoT just to see which specific places and which specific mobs are unbalanced and where. Just because you don't find it difficult doesn't mean it's not difficult for casual players.

    If you're saying most, if not all, then it's a player skill issue and not one involving the mobs themselves. This is especially true if you hold all content released since HoT as not being as "difficult". There are many casual players who have no issues. Just because you have issues, and self-describe yourself and a casual, doesn't mean that your own personal experience is represents those of others who label themselves as casual. I constantly see players who wear "casual" as some sort of banner and then act as if it's some sort of handicap to be so even though plenty of players who call themselves casual have completed all content in this game.

    so , its the right product for the wrong customers? still a failure then

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    HoT map completion has been done with a level 2 character several times; champ hero points obviously leeched from an HP train.

    That doesn't really speak to a casual's experience though, and I'm talking about a casual's experience

    Define casual.

    If a level 2 character can go through HoT without any issues, where everything aggros from beyond 2K range and will one-shot you to completely dead, I'm sure others will have no issues.

    The maps do not have swarms of enemies in locations except for during certain events.

    i don't know what to tell you, I've been ambushed before (especially pocket raptors but not exclusively pocket raptors)

    For pocket raptors, you want to kill them immediately. Use your burst skills on them. I don't recall any other mobs ambushing players.

    The enemies all have similar mechanics just like the PoF enemies .You listed the djinn, hydras, and one other mob type as being challenging but not difficult and yet HoT enemies really are no different from them.

    the enemies in HoT are both challenging and difficult, while the enemies in PoF are challenging but not difficult. the two terms aren't interchangeable.

    As I said in my post, the enemies in HoT are really no different from those in PoF. They all have mechanics which make them easy once you know what they are and how to perform them. There will be a learning curve but it's really no different from that in PoF and the living stories.

    I've asked which HoT enemies you have found difficulties with but you never answered the question. I asked where in HoT that you encounters swarms of enemies which you never answered.

    Generally speaking, most if not all HoT enemies are difficult, and generally all around HoT maps. I can't really point to specifics because it's been a while, and it's not like i need to go back to HoT maps for anything since i have all the masteries completed, so i just never venture there anymore, and I'm not going to make myself miserable by going back to HoT just to see which specific places and which specific mobs are unbalanced and where. Just because you don't find it difficult doesn't mean it's not difficult for casual players.

    If you're saying most, if not all, then it's a player skill issue and not one involving the mobs themselves. This is especially true if you hold all content released since HoT as not being as "difficult". There are many casual players who have no issues. Just because you have issues, and self-describe yourself and a casual, doesn't mean that your own personal experience is represents those of others who label themselves as casual. I constantly see players who wear "casual" as some sort of banner and then act as if it's some sort of handicap to be so even though plenty of players who call themselves casual have completed all content in this game.

    so , its the right product for the wrong customers? still a failure then

    Did you quote the wrong person? I don't see how your post is relevant to what I said.

  • @battledrone.8315 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Bish.8627 said:
    The jump from vanilla to HoT is pretty sharp for a new player

    That's normal since there is supposed to be two living world seasons in-between core and hot. A player isn't even required to visit Southsun Cove before going into hot. Those Young Karka are excellent "training" for fresh level 80s to test their abilities.

    i have never seen an mmo where the difficulty varies so much as this game. it is NOT normal to do it this way.
    other devs try to avoid it, you dont want all the spices in one bite either

    It's a good thing they did it that way. Most players like some challenge in their games. Frankly, core game play is an embarrassment. What kind of sense does it make to have one of the best combat systems of any MMO when players can literally stand in place auto-attacking and still win against most enemies?

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    HoT map completion has been done with a level 2 character several times; champ hero points obviously leeched from an HP train.

    That doesn't really speak to a casual's experience though, and I'm talking about a casual's experience

    Define casual.

    If a level 2 character can go through HoT without any issues, where everything aggros from beyond 2K range and will one-shot you to completely dead, I'm sure others will have no issues.

    The maps do not have swarms of enemies in locations except for during certain events.

    i don't know what to tell you, I've been ambushed before (especially pocket raptors but not exclusively pocket raptors)

    For pocket raptors, you want to kill them immediately. Use your burst skills on them. I don't recall any other mobs ambushing players.

    The enemies all have similar mechanics just like the PoF enemies .You listed the djinn, hydras, and one other mob type as being challenging but not difficult and yet HoT enemies really are no different from them.

    the enemies in HoT are both challenging and difficult, while the enemies in PoF are challenging but not difficult. the two terms aren't interchangeable.

    As I said in my post, the enemies in HoT are really no different from those in PoF. They all have mechanics which make them easy once you know what they are and how to perform them. There will be a learning curve but it's really no different from that in PoF and the living stories.

    I've asked which HoT enemies you have found difficulties with but you never answered the question. I asked where in HoT that you encounters swarms of enemies which you never answered.

    Generally speaking, most if not all HoT enemies are difficult, and generally all around HoT maps. I can't really point to specifics because it's been a while, and it's not like i need to go back to HoT maps for anything since i have all the masteries completed, so i just never venture there anymore, and I'm not going to make myself miserable by going back to HoT just to see which specific places and which specific mobs are unbalanced and where. Just because you don't find it difficult doesn't mean it's not difficult for casual players.

    If you're saying most, if not all, then it's a player skill issue and not one involving the mobs themselves. This is especially true if you hold all content released since HoT as not being as "difficult". There are many casual players who have no issues. Just because you have issues, and self-describe yourself and a casual, doesn't mean that your own personal experience is represents those of others who label themselves as casual. I constantly see players who wear "casual" as some sort of banner and then act as if it's some sort of handicap to be so even though plenty of players who call themselves casual have completed all content in this game.

    so , its the right product for the wrong customers? still a failure then

    Did you quote the wrong person? I don't see how your post is relevant to what I said.

    nope. but you if dont see the connection, feel free to ignore it.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cuks.8241 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    Even with mounts, HoT is still unenjoyable and too imbalanced for casual players.

    Casual has nothing to do with it. I am a casual (a few hours per week) and can and play all the content that gw2 offers.

    then you are a skilled player, who plays casually...not a casual player per se. there is a pretty big difference.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    HoT map completion has been done with a level 2 character several times; champ hero points obviously leeched from an HP train.

    That doesn't really speak to a casual's experience though, and I'm talking about a casual's experience

    Define casual.

    If a level 2 character can go through HoT without any issues, where everything aggros from beyond 2K range and will one-shot you to completely dead, I'm sure others will have no issues.

    The maps do not have swarms of enemies in locations except for during certain events.

    i don't know what to tell you, I've been ambushed before (especially pocket raptors but not exclusively pocket raptors)

    For pocket raptors, you want to kill them immediately. Use your burst skills on them. I don't recall any other mobs ambushing players.

    The enemies all have similar mechanics just like the PoF enemies .You listed the djinn, hydras, and one other mob type as being challenging but not difficult and yet HoT enemies really are no different from them.

    the enemies in HoT are both challenging and difficult, while the enemies in PoF are challenging but not difficult. the two terms aren't interchangeable.

    As I said in my post, the enemies in HoT are really no different from those in PoF. They all have mechanics which make them easy once you know what they are and how to perform them. There will be a learning curve but it's really no different from that in PoF and the living stories.

    I've asked which HoT enemies you have found difficulties with but you never answered the question. I asked where in HoT that you encounters swarms of enemies which you never answered.

    Generally speaking, most if not all HoT enemies are difficult, and generally all around HoT maps. I can't really point to specifics because it's been a while, and it's not like i need to go back to HoT maps for anything since i have all the masteries completed, so i just never venture there anymore, and I'm not going to make myself miserable by going back to HoT just to see which specific places and which specific mobs are unbalanced and where. Just because you don't find it difficult doesn't mean it's not difficult for casual players.

    If you're saying most, if not all, then it's a player skill issue and not one involving the mobs themselves. This is especially true if you hold all content released since HoT as not being as "difficult". There are many casual players who have no issues. Just because you have issues, and self-describe yourself and a casual, doesn't mean that your own personal experience is represents those of others who label themselves as casual. I constantly see players who wear "casual" as some sort of banner and then act as if it's some sort of handicap to be so even though plenty of players who call themselves casual have completed all content in this game.

    so , its the right product for the wrong customers? still a failure then

    Did you quote the wrong person? I don't see how your post is relevant to what I said.

    nope. but you if dont see the connection, feel free to ignore it.

    There isn't a connection beyond the one being forced.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2020

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I ask because unless you have data then you're simply going by your experience. For example,raiders may find raids easy from their experience but this doesn't necessarily mean that raids are easy as a fact. It only means that raids are easy for them. Just like how HoT is more difficult for you than elsewhere based on your experience playing but this doesn't necessarily mean that HoT is actually more difficult. When you base something on your experience, it becomes subjective and no longer a fact.

    So does my experience count for nothing? This thread exists for a reason.

    To other players yes it count for nothing, to you no it counts since its your experience.

    even the most asocial players cant play an mmo in a bubble, you may not respect other peoples opinions, but you have to accept, that they HAVE them
    "when you base something on your experience, it becomes subjective and no longer a fact"....then i guess we have to dismiss ALL opinions , except FROM THOSE , WHO HAVENT PLAYED THE GAME!!! wow....

    The problem here is someone who was presenting their opinion as a fact and when asked to provide data to support it they failed.
    Someone's experience will definitely shape their opinion of something, but it won't make it a fact.

    Some might have a hard time figuring out the meaning of the word fact, but it's not an opinion

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Bish.8627 said:
    The jump from vanilla to HoT is pretty sharp for a new player

    That's normal since there is supposed to be two living world seasons in-between core and hot. A player isn't even required to visit Southsun Cove before going into hot. Those Young Karka are excellent "training" for fresh level 80s to test their abilities.

    i have never seen an mmo where the difficulty varies so much as this game. it is NOT normal to do it this way.
    other devs try to avoid it, you dont want all the spices in one bite either

    It's a good thing they did it that way. Most players like some challenge in their games. Frankly, core game play is an embarrassment. What kind of sense does it make to have one of the best combat systems of any MMO when players can literally stand in place auto-attacking and still win against most enemies?

    this is the standard way. when you have to kill 1000s of them , you dont want each and every one of them to be a mini boss. trash mobs are SUPPOSED to be easy.
    and if the core game was so horrible, why on earth did you buy the EXPANSION for it?
    if the foundation(core) was as rotten, as you claim, this game would had shut down years ago.

  • @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Cuks.8241 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    Even with mounts, HoT is still unenjoyable and too imbalanced for casual players.

    Casual has nothing to do with it. I am a casual (a few hours per week) and can and play all the content that gw2 offers.

    then you are a skilled player, who plays casually...not a casual player per se. there is a pretty big difference.

    My understanding of "casual" is more the mindset of a player who isn't serious about the game. That doesn't necessarily mean they're bad at it or don't put in time on it, though it is probably more likely they share these traits than a hardcore player. By this definition, it means a player who doesn't go for organized group content. Monthly ATs, ranked PvP duo queue, fractal CMs, raids, strikes, etc. That's more the hardcore player's realm.

    Just because you mostly just mess around with open world/story, solo roam, or duel and do dailies in PvP doesn't mean you're bad or don't spend time playing, right? But these are pretty casual activities.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I ask because unless you have data then you're simply going by your experience. For example,raiders may find raids easy from their experience but this doesn't necessarily mean that raids are easy as a fact. It only means that raids are easy for them. Just like how HoT is more difficult for you than elsewhere based on your experience playing but this doesn't necessarily mean that HoT is actually more difficult. When you base something on your experience, it becomes subjective and no longer a fact.

    So does my experience count for nothing? This thread exists for a reason.

    To other players yes it count for nothing, to you no it counts since its your experience.

    even the most asocial players cant play an mmo in a bubble, you may not respect other peoples opinions, but you have to accept, that they HAVE them
    "when you base something on your experience, it becomes subjective and no longer a fact"....then i guess we have to dismiss ALL opinions , except FROM THOSE , WHO HAVENT PLAYED THE GAME!!! wow....

    The problem here is someone who was presenting their opinion as a fact and when asked to provide data to support it they failed.
    Someone's experience will definitely shape their opinion of something, but it won't make it a fact.

    Some might have a hard time figuring out the meaning of the word fact, but it's not an opinion

    FACT is, that my OPINION has made my close my wallet. come again?

  • @battledrone.8315 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Bish.8627 said:
    The jump from vanilla to HoT is pretty sharp for a new player

    That's normal since there is supposed to be two living world seasons in-between core and hot. A player isn't even required to visit Southsun Cove before going into hot. Those Young Karka are excellent "training" for fresh level 80s to test their abilities.

    i have never seen an mmo where the difficulty varies so much as this game. it is NOT normal to do it this way.
    other devs try to avoid it, you dont want all the spices in one bite either

    It's a good thing they did it that way. Most players like some challenge in their games. Frankly, core game play is an embarrassment. What kind of sense does it make to have one of the best combat systems of any MMO when players can literally stand in place auto-attacking and still win against most enemies?

    this is the standard way. when you have to kill 1000s of them , you dont want each and every one of them to be a mini boss. trash mobs are SUPPOSED to be easy.
    and if the core game was so horrible, why on earth did you buy the EXPANSION for it?
    if the foundation(core) was as rotten, as you claim, this game would had shut down years ago.

    I started playing after HoT released because I heard about the crazy maps and excellent combat. I'm glad I didn't try GW2 sooner because I likely never would have given a second look if I had.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Bish.8627 said:
    The jump from vanilla to HoT is pretty sharp for a new player

    That's normal since there is supposed to be two living world seasons in-between core and hot. A player isn't even required to visit Southsun Cove before going into hot. Those Young Karka are excellent "training" for fresh level 80s to test their abilities.

    i have never seen an mmo where the difficulty varies so much as this game. it is NOT normal to do it this way.
    other devs try to avoid it, you dont want all the spices in one bite either

    It's a good thing they did it that way. Most players like some challenge in their games. Frankly, core game play is an embarrassment. What kind of sense does it make to have one of the best combat systems of any MMO when players can literally stand in place auto-attacking and still win against most enemies?

    this is the standard way. when you have to kill 1000s of them , you dont want each and every one of them to be a mini boss. trash mobs are SUPPOSED to be easy.
    and if the core game was so horrible, why on earth did you buy the EXPANSION for it?
    if the foundation(core) was as rotten, as you claim, this game would had shut down years ago.

    I started playing after HoT released because I heard about the crazy maps and excellent combat. I'm glad I didn't try GW2 sooner because I likely never would have given a second look if I had.

    yep, its the expansion, for those who didnt like the game in the first place. it is basically 2 DIFFERENT GAMES....lol

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    FACT is, that my OPINION has made my close my wallet. come again?

    Huh? Come again?

    I was talking about these:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    That's hilarious. HoT IS harder than PoF, that's really plain as day to see. It's not an agenda, it's just fact.

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    It's not fact 'because' i say so. It just is fact.

    Someone who clearly has no idea what the word "fact" means. Which is why an experience presented as fact means nothing if it's not backed up by actual data that makes it a fact. Are you one of those that have no idea what "fact" means?

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    FACT is, that my OPINION has made my close my wallet. come again?

    Huh? Come again?

    I was talking about these:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    That's hilarious. HoT IS harder than PoF, that's really plain as day to see. It's not an agenda, it's just fact.

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    It's not fact 'because' i say so. It just is fact.

    Someone who clearly has no idea what the word "fact" means. Which is why an experience presented as fact means nothing if it's not backed up by actual data that makes it a fact. Are you one of those that have no idea what "fact" means?

    do you? YOU are trying to belittle his opinions based on YOUR agenda. or, are you implying, that he is LYING?

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    FACT is, that my OPINION has made my close my wallet. come again?

    Huh? Come again?

    I was talking about these:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    That's hilarious. HoT IS harder than PoF, that's really plain as day to see. It's not an agenda, it's just fact.

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    It's not fact 'because' i say so. It just is fact.

    Someone who clearly has no idea what the word "fact" means. Which is why an experience presented as fact means nothing if it's not backed up by actual data that makes it a fact. Are you one of those that have no idea what "fact" means?

    do you? YOU are trying to belittle his opinions based on YOUR agenda. or, are you implying, that he is LYING?

    I do know what a fact is. I simply challenged the idea of calling an opinion a fact, lying or not is irrelevant, a fact requires data to back up, otherwise it's not a fact but an opinion. Can you see the difference between fact and opinion?

  • Astyrah.4015Astyrah.4015 Member ✭✭✭✭

    facts are information that are known and proven true by given data (studies/proofs/evidences).

    without data, information is just information and opinions are just opinions. with data, information can be facts, opinions can represent a fact.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2020

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Define casual.

    Players who primarily focus on open world content, story, and generally explore by themselves, occasionally doing group content with other players if they find events happening.

    If a level 2 character can go through HoT without any issues, where everything aggros from beyond 2K range and will one-shot you to completely dead, I'm sure others will have no issues.

    That really speaks to immense player skill that the average GW2 player doesn't have, and again, I'm talking about the solo experience, where you're going through the maps by yourself, not with groups, just exploring the world.

    As I said in my post, the enemies in HoT are really no different from those in PoF. They all have mechanics which make them easy once you know what they are and how to perform them. There will be a learning curve but it's really no different from that in PoF and the living stories.

    And like i said, there is a difference between the enemies in HoT and the enemies in PoF.

    If you're saying most, if not all, then it's a player skill issue and not one involving the mobs themselves. This is especially true if you hold all content released since HoT as not being as "difficult". There are many casual players who have no issues. Just because you have issues, and self-describe yourself and a casual, doesn't mean that your own personal experience is represents those of others who label themselves as casual. I constantly see players who wear "casual" as some sort of banner and then act as if it's some sort of handicap to be so even though plenty of players who call themselves casual have completed all content in this game.

    Again, for the third time in this thread, I've map completed HoT and PoF. The thing with HoT is that it was designed with players roaming in groups, not roaming solo. I was able to complete the content through joining players in events, where the skill needed is lowered through the sheer power of a huge number of players. But solo is a different experience, HoT wasn't designed for the solo casual player, the devs themselves praised this content as being more difficult in press releases if i recall correctly. That was their intent. To make it difficult to solo. That's my point. I'm not saying it's impossible to play through HoT as a solo casual player, I'm saying it's unbalanced for the solo casual player even post nerf. You seem to mistake my stance that enemies in HoT are difficult as in 'they are impossible', which I have never said. As I have stated multiple times in this thread, they are unbalanced for the solo experience, that doesn't mean they're impossible, it just means they're unbalanced.

    EDIT: you know what? I should really give HoT another chance. I'll comment on this thread once i give it another shot solo.

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    FACT is, that my OPINION has made my close my wallet. come again?

    Huh? Come again?

    I was talking about these:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    That's hilarious. HoT IS harder than PoF, that's really plain as day to see. It's not an agenda, it's just fact.

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    It's not fact 'because' i say so. It just is fact.

    Someone who clearly has no idea what the word "fact" means. Which is why an experience presented as fact means nothing if it's not backed up by actual data that makes it a fact. Are you one of those that have no idea what "fact" means?

    I was emotional, I admit. I apologise for my rash actions. I shouldn't have called my personal experience 'fact'.

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Cuks.8241 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    Even with mounts, HoT is still unenjoyable and too imbalanced for casual players.

    Casual has nothing to do with it. I am a casual (a few hours per week) and can and play all the content that gw2 offers.

    then you are a skilled player, who plays casually...not a casual player per se. there is a pretty big difference.

    So if a skilled player who plays casually is not a casual, is casual just synonymous for bad player?

  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    EDIT: you know what? I should really give HoT another chance. I'll comment on this thread once i give it another shot solo.

    If you have a "tanky" profession character that you enjoy playing, you may want to choose to play this character through HoT again solo to try it from a different perspective. In my experience squishy professions have a much tougher time solo because you need to be able to avoid high-damage attacks with dodges or are severely punished.

  • Virtuality.8351Virtuality.8351 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2020

    Late for the discussion, and I do not mean to criticize, but I think the single-player-game analogue you choose tells something.

    For me, the entire HoT experience was about having a group of people (be it friends, guildies or random pugs) working, exploring, fighting and surviving together in a hazardous area toward common objectives. The contents never seem to me intended to be solo-ed, and the difficulty actually promotes collaboration between players—just look at how much more often someone puts on a commander/mentor tag in HoT maps compared with in other ones.

    The expansion is supposed to be the anti-power-fantasy after the huge fiasco the Pact just experienced during the initial stage of their expedition into Maguuma, where you have to navigate yourself through debris, wreckage, and uncharted territory of dense tropical vegetation. It is the GW2 version of Vietnam War, where the military might and air superiority ultimately failed and you as a soldier on the ground with a broken command chain (or rather, at least in the story, the second-in-command with a shattered force) have to figure out everything yourself. That means, to communicate, to organize and to coordinate and work with whatever of the army is left—or in effect, marking yourself on the map and speaking up in party/guild/map channel a lot.

    That being said though, I did have friends who could not stand the experience and quit the game entirely. So in another way I can feel ya. The content was definitely designed for players who prefer to solo everything they encounter. However, it still seems to me that to further reduce the difficulty—be it the mobs, the navigation, the hero point and boss fight—would only destroy the vibe that the game tries to tell through the mechanics and interaction with the players as part of the storytelling.

    And to further add to that: the VB night meta is in my opinion one of the best community content in the game. Yes, compared with other contents, it takes massive effort to coordinate everyone scattered all over the map. Heck, it might even take a whole guild just to do that. But there is also beauty in it. In fact, all HoT maps have the same vibe. And despite the difficulty, players make progress too. In VB players have 5 outposts to guard, each with multiple camp sites around. That's all pretty disorganized. In AB and TD though, things are getting better and players are separated into only 4 divisions for the meta events. In DS it's only 3 lanes (though originally planned to be 4 and later reduced to 3 due to budget and schedule limitation). The effort ArenaNet put in to tell the story via all possible means to me is just impressive.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Atomos.7593 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    EDIT: you know what? I should really give HoT another chance. I'll comment on this thread once i give it another shot solo.

    If you have a "tanky" profession character that you enjoy playing, you may want to choose to play this character through HoT again solo to try it from a different perspective. In my experience squishy professions have a much tougher time solo because you need to be able to avoid high-damage attacks with dodges or are severely punished.

    So I tried HoT with my revenant and it wasn't too bad, but when i tried it on my mesmer i was getting downed constantly. I guess i just don't really have a great build for surviving high damage blows on mesmer like i do on revenant. But yeah, honestly, it wasn't a horrible experience journeying through HoT areas on my rev, but it was a pain on my mesmer.

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Atomos.7593 said:
    If you have a "tanky" profession character that you enjoy playing, you may want to choose to play this character through HoT again solo to try it from a different perspective. In my experience squishy professions have a much tougher time solo because you need to be able to avoid high-damage attacks with dodges or are severely punished.

    My personal experience is the opposite because some of the hardest hitting normal mobs of HOT, like Smokescales and Shadowleapers, die in 1-2 hits because they have 1/4th the health of Orrian Risen. This means, going for high damage / offensive builds is the better way to play HOT, assuming you use active defenses and CC. As an example that I like to give on that matter, on my Core Thief (before I unlocked elite specializations), built for full damage (Berserker), I could use Steal to teleport to a Smokescale, which would daze it for 1 second, enough to move behind, use Cloak and Dagger, then Backstab and you have a dead Smokescale before it can even react. That's how fast they die. Or on me Elementalist I picked the trait that casts Lava Font on being downed, entered a field with Pocket Raptors, cast Lava Font under myself, then wait for them to die on it, if they managed to down me, the second Lava Font was enough to kill them so I'd simply rally.

    It's not that you need "tanky" professions to enjoy HOT, but you do need to think a bit creatively and use your imagination instead of auto-attacking everything to death.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Define casual.

    Players who primarily focus on open world content, story, and generally explore by themselves, occasionally doing group content with other players if they find events happening.

    Okay so you're defining casual players by what they do in a game. That's good to know for when you reference "casual". Keep in mind that people also define casual by how much effort that someone puts into the game while others also define it by how often one plays the game and for how long. There's no singular definition. A player with high AP who does only open world content, the story, and the occasional group content could be considered hardcore by some players and casual by others.

    If a level 2 character can go through HoT without any issues, where everything aggros from beyond 2K range and will one-shot you to completely dead, I'm sure others will have no issues.

    That really speaks to immense player skill that the average GW2 player doesn't have, and again, I'm talking about the solo experience, where you're going through the maps by yourself, not with groups, just exploring the world.

    It's not really skill to be honest. You're simply running/gliding through the maps. Players can easily travel around solo without groups on all of the HoT maps. Well... the areas not locked behind group events.

    As I said in my post, the enemies in HoT are really no different from those in PoF. They all have mechanics which make them easy once you know what they are and how to perform them. There will be a learning curve but it's really no different from that in PoF and the living stories.

    And like i said, there is a difference between the enemies in HoT and the enemies in PoF.

    What are these differences? Can you give specific examples?

    If you're saying most, if not all, then it's a player skill issue and not one involving the mobs themselves. This is especially true if you hold all content released since HoT as not being as "difficult". There are many casual players who have no issues. Just because you have issues, and self-describe yourself and a casual, doesn't mean that your own personal experience is represents those of others who label themselves as casual. I constantly see players who wear "casual" as some sort of banner and then act as if it's some sort of handicap to be so even though plenty of players who call themselves casual have completed all content in this game.

    Again, for the third time in this thread, I've map completed HoT and PoF. The thing with HoT is that it was designed with players roaming in groups, not roaming solo. I was able to complete the content through joining players in events, where the skill needed is lowered through the sheer power of a huge number of players. But solo is a different experience, HoT wasn't designed for the solo casual player, the devs themselves praised this content as being more difficult in press releases if i recall correctly. That was their intent. To make it difficult to solo. That's my point. I'm not saying it's impossible to play through HoT as a solo casual player, I'm saying it's unbalanced for the solo casual player even post nerf. You seem to mistake my stance that enemies in HoT are difficult as in 'they are impossible', which I have never said. As I have stated multiple times in this thread, they are unbalanced for the solo experience, that doesn't mean they're impossible, it just means they're unbalanced.

    EDIT: you know what? I should really give HoT another chance. I'll comment on this thread once i give it another shot solo.

    How do you know what it was or wasn't designed for? A fairly large percentage of the events can be done solo. The only ones that generally cannot be done so are those that are labeled as group event with a champ tied to it. This is usually the final event in the chain. You'll find these group events on all maps of the game. If you disagree that the events can be easily soloed, please provide examples of the non-group events that you believe that cannot. You can call them out by chain if that makes it easier than listing them individually.

    I never said that you said that they were impossible. All I used were the very same adjectives that you had used. You said PoF enemies were challenging but not difficult and that HoT enemies were challenging and difficult. The only difference between the two, according to you, would be that HoT enemies are difficult and PoF enemies are not difficult. In the very same post you quoted, I used "difficult" which you're now taking as me implying that you meant impossible. It's really difficult when you change the definition from one post to the next.

  • Healix.5819Healix.5819 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    So if a skilled player who plays casually is not a casual, is casual just synonymous for bad player?

    Yes, it generally is. A skilled player playing casually is going to be far ahead of a casual player playing casually. Some will use casual to solely mean time spent, but you can still be hardcore while only playing an hour a week, and likewise, casual when playing 24/7. Casual/hardcore have multiple definitions based on context, but overall, it is a mindset. A casual player is just playing for fun, doesn't care about learning anything and thus plays poorly with a somewhat random setup while generally relying purely on vertical progression to get past obstacles. They're always going to choose the easiest difficulty when playing games.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As I said in my post, the enemies in HoT are really no different from those in PoF. They all have mechanics which make them easy once you know what they are and how to perform them. There will be a learning curve but it's really no different from that in PoF and the living stories.

    And like i said, there is a difference between the enemies in HoT and the enemies in PoF.

    What are these differences? Can you give specific examples?

    Now that i've gone back to play a bit of HoT, i think the biggest issue is that HoT enemies deal large packets of damage that you need to dodge/block/avoid, where as the damage in PoF isn't as high per attack. Again i don't have exact numbers because i dont know how to collect that data, but that's been my experience with it.

    How do you know what it was or wasn't designed for?

    They stress the fact that it's increased challenge and specifically group challenge. Also I was there in HoT Launch, i experienced the difficulty first hand and how they had to eventually change some hero points to be more solo friendly (several of them are now challenges where they once were group events).

    I never said that you said that they were impossible. All I used were the very same adjectives that you had used. You said PoF enemies were challenging but not difficult and that HoT enemies were challenging and difficult. The only difference between the two, according to you, would be that HoT enemies are difficult and PoF enemies are not difficult. In the very same post you quoted, I used "difficult" which you're now taking as me implying that you meant impossible. It's really difficult when you change the definition from one post to the next.

    I never changed my definitions though. I've been consistent. What you said was:

    I constantly see players who wear "casual" as some sort of banner and then act as if it's some sort of handicap to be so even though plenty of players who call themselves casual have completed all content in this game.

    Which, to me, implied that you thought I was unable to complete the content, and it was to that which i was responding. I never changed my definitions.

    Regardless, I've come back from playing HoT with my herald and my chronomancer and I was getting downed on my chronomancer more than i was on my herald. I was able to avoid more damage on my herald than i was on my chronomancer, who took the brunt of many attacks. So in short, from my experience, it seems enemies in HoT deal damage in high packets but lower frequency as opposed to PoF enemies that deal lower damage in higher frequency. I don't have the data but i do have the experience.

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2020

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    As I said in my post, the enemies in HoT are really no different from those in PoF. They all have mechanics which make them easy once you know what they are and how to perform them. There will be a learning curve but it's really no different from that in PoF and the living stories.

    And like i said, there is a difference between the enemies in HoT and the enemies in PoF.

    What are these differences? Can you give specific examples?

    Now that i've gone back to play a bit of HoT, i think the biggest issue is that HoT enemies deal large packets of damage that you need to dodge/block/avoid, where as the damage in PoF isn't as high per attack. Again i don't have exact numbers because i dont know how to collect that data, but that's been my experience with it.

    Which enemies?

    Be careful about going entirely on observations because they can become distorted by bias and such.

    How do you know what it was or wasn't designed for?

    They stress the fact that it's increased challenge and specifically group challenge. Also I was there in HoT Launch, i experienced the difficulty first hand and how they had to eventually change some hero points to be more solo friendly (several of them are now challenges where they once were group events).

    I'm not going to sit through an hour long video which has the potential to not even support your claim. Could you please provide time stamps?

    Also, none of the hero challenges were changed from a group event to solo.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/April_2016

    I never said that you said that they were impossible. All I used were the very same adjectives that you had used. You said PoF enemies were challenging but not difficult and that HoT enemies were challenging and difficult. The only difference between the two, according to you, would be that HoT enemies are difficult and PoF enemies are not difficult. In the very same post you quoted, I used "difficult" which you're now taking as me implying that you meant impossible. It's really difficult when you change the definition from one post to the next.

    I never changed my definitions though. I've been consistent. What you said was:

    I constantly see players who wear "casual" as some sort of banner and then act as if it's some sort of handicap to be so even though plenty of players who call themselves casual have completed all content in this game.

    Which, to me, implied that you thought I was unable to complete the content, and it was to that which i was responding. I never changed my definitions.

    No. that was me arguing against people using the "casual" card on things they don't like.

    Regardless, I've come back from playing HoT with my herald and my chronomancer and I was getting downed on my chronomancer more than i was on my herald. I was able to avoid more damage on my herald than i was on my chronomancer, who took the brunt of many attacks. So in short, from my experience, it seems enemies in HoT deal damage in high packets but lower frequency as opposed to PoF enemies that deal lower damage in higher frequency. I don't have the data but i do have the experience.

    I've very curious to see a video of you playing as it'd make it easier to see what you're doing and offer suggestions. It'll also let me see exactly which enemies you are struggling with.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2020

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Which enemies?

    Be careful about going entirely on observations because they can become distorted by bias and such.

    Flameriders are one of the biggest threats that i faced with my mesmer, but generally tackling more than one mordrem mob was difficult with my mesmer.

    I'm not going to sit through an hour long video which has the potential to not even support your claim. Could you please provide time stamps?

    18:25 to like 22:00 ish. He stresses challenges and group challenges a lot.

    Regardless, I've come back from playing HoT with my herald and my chronomancer and I was getting downed on my chronomancer more than i was on my herald. I was able to avoid more damage on my herald than i was on my chronomancer, who took the brunt of many attacks. So in short, from my experience, it seems enemies in HoT deal damage in high packets but lower frequency as opposed to PoF enemies that deal lower damage in higher frequency. I don't have the data but i do have the experience.

    I've very curious to see a video of you playing as it'd make it easier to see what you're doing and offer suggestions. It'll also let me see exactly which enemies you are struggling with.

    I can probably do that. The editing might be hell but it's something i can certainly do.

    EDIT: In the mean time, here's my mesmer build, i figure that you could probably figure out a little bit of how i'm playing just from the build itself.

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAw6FlZwmYMMLWJeqTqtfA-zRZYBKdMUQVCh4mQ2lCZECuEBvkUTFQrJAA-e

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Atomos.7593 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    EDIT: you know what? I should really give HoT another chance. I'll comment on this thread once i give it another shot solo.

    If you have a "tanky" profession character that you enjoy playing, you may want to choose to play this character through HoT again solo to try it from a different perspective. In my experience squishy professions have a much tougher time solo because you need to be able to avoid high-damage attacks with dodges or are severely punished.

    So I tried HoT with my revenant and it wasn't too bad, but when i tried it on my mesmer i was getting downed constantly. I guess i just don't really have a great build for surviving high damage blows on mesmer like i do on revenant. But yeah, honestly, it wasn't a horrible experience journeying through HoT areas on my rev, but it was a pain on my mesmer.

    Yeah, I also found the herald rev much easier to solo with and could solo champion mobs in Auric Basin lol.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Atomos.7593 said:
    If you have a "tanky" profession character that you enjoy playing, you may want to choose to play this character through HoT again solo to try it from a different perspective. In my experience squishy professions have a much tougher time solo because you need to be able to avoid high-damage attacks with dodges or are severely punished.

    My personal experience is the opposite because some of the hardest hitting normal mobs of HOT, like Smokescales and Shadowleapers, die in 1-2 hits because they have 1/4th the health of Orrian Risen. This means, going for high damage / offensive builds is the better way to play HOT, assuming you use active defenses and CC. As an example that I like to give on that matter, on my Core Thief (before I unlocked elite specializations), built for full damage (Berserker), I could use Steal to teleport to a Smokescale, which would daze it for 1 second, enough to move behind, use Cloak and Dagger, then Backstab and you have a dead Smokescale before it can even react. That's how fast they die. Or on me Elementalist I picked the trait that casts Lava Font on being downed, entered a field with Pocket Raptors, cast Lava Font under myself, then wait for them to die on it, if they managed to down me, the second Lava Font was enough to kill them so I'd simply rally.

    It's not that you need "tanky" professions to enjoy HOT, but you do need to think a bit creatively and use your imagination instead of auto-attacking everything to death.

    I don't find it difficult on any profession, but that's probably because I'm used to dodging and adjusting to the mechanics of mobs. A lot of people don't seem to like this aspect when doing HoT solo, so for them a more tanky profession may be easier to play with since you can just stand and absorb more hits. On my herald rev I could ignore virtually all of the mechanics of non-champion mobs, and just stand in one spot and dps and heal.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2020

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Which enemies?

    Be careful about going entirely on observations because they can become distorted by bias and such.

    Flameriders are one of the biggest threats that i faced with my mesmer, but generally tackling more than one mordrem mob was difficult with my mesmer.

    I just fought one. It's primary attack is that flame thing which can easily be avoided if you go behind it turn the attack. It doesn't change direction when it's performing the attack. It's similar to the veteran vinetooth which you could technically kill without getting hit because it doesn't change direction until after its rotation.

    I'm not going to sit through an hour long video which has the potential to not even support your claim. Could you please provide time stamps?

    18:25 to like 22:00 ish. He stresses challenges and group challenges a lot.

    That was marketing talk. We heard the same thing for the Bjora masteries which ended up not living up to what was being claimed. The vast majority were useless beyond the collection item or rare event that was locked behind them. I specifically remember that part of the video and was disappointed when I got the masteries only to find out that they had no really use.

    Regardless, I've come back from playing HoT with my herald and my chronomancer and I was getting downed on my chronomancer more than i was on my herald. I was able to avoid more damage on my herald than i was on my chronomancer, who took the brunt of many attacks. So in short, from my experience, it seems enemies in HoT deal damage in high packets but lower frequency as opposed to PoF enemies that deal lower damage in higher frequency. I don't have the data but i do have the experience.

    I've very curious to see a video of you playing as it'd make it easier to see what you're doing and offer suggestions. It'll also let me see exactly which enemies you are struggling with.

    I can probably do that. The editing might be hell but it's something i can certainly do.

    It doesn't need to be anything special. You could also list out the enemy and I can tell you the best way that I found to handle them. Kind of like how breaking the Djinn's bar in PoF allows you to quickly kill them. The video was just for me to see how you're approaching the enemies. I see people that try to fight smokescales and just stand there whiffing in the AoE circle instead of stepping away from it to lure the smokescale out.

    EDIT: I just read the last part of your post again. Try not to approach enemies like core Tyria as a lot of them are generally not best to face tank.

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2020

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Which enemies?

    Be careful about going entirely on observations because they can become distorted by bias and such.

    Flameriders are one of the biggest threats that i faced with my mesmer, but generally tackling more than one mordrem mob was difficult with my mesmer.

    I'm not going to sit through an hour long video which has the potential to not even support your claim. Could you please provide time stamps?

    18:25 to like 22:00 ish. He stresses challenges and group challenges a lot.

    Regardless, I've come back from playing HoT with my herald and my chronomancer and I was getting downed on my chronomancer more than i was on my herald. I was able to avoid more damage on my herald than i was on my chronomancer, who took the brunt of many attacks. So in short, from my experience, it seems enemies in HoT deal damage in high packets but lower frequency as opposed to PoF enemies that deal lower damage in higher frequency. I don't have the data but i do have the experience.

    I've very curious to see a video of you playing as it'd make it easier to see what you're doing and offer suggestions. It'll also let me see exactly which enemies you are struggling with.

    I can probably do that. The editing might be hell but it's something i can certainly do.

    EDIT: In the mean time, here's my mesmer build, i figure that you could probably figure out a little bit of how i'm playing just from the build itself.

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAw6FlZwmYMMLWJeqTqtfA-zRZYBKdMUQVCh4mQ2lCZECuEBvkUTFQrJAA-e

    Would love to see that, and also provide foot age of myself running the same route as you to explain my thought process. It can also be raw footage so its as low effort as possible. If you have specific time stamps to call out thatd be a good plus.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I just fought one. It's primary attack is that flame thing which can easily be avoided if you go behind it turn the attack. It doesn't change direction when it's performing the attack. It's similar to the veteran vinetooth which you could technically kill without getting hit because it doesn't change direction until after its rotation.

    Good to know, i'll try to keep that in mind going forward.

    That was marketing talk. We heard the same thing for the Bjora masteries which ended up not living up to what was being claimed. The vast majority were useless beyond the collection item or rare event that was locked behind them. I specifically remember that part of the video and was disappointed when I got the masteries only to find out that they had no really use.

    Just because something doesn't live up to the marketing doesn't mean that it wasn't there intention. Remember they did nerf HoT.

    It doesn't need to be anything special. You could also list out the enemy and I can tell you the best way that I found to handle them. Kind of like how breaking the Djinn's bar in PoF allows you to quickly kill them. The video was just for me to see how you're approaching the enemies. I see people that try to fight smokescales and just stand there whiffing in the AoE circle instead of stepping away from it to lure the smokescale out.

    I don't think i can do a video right athe moment, but i'll come back to this thread with a video of my mesmer journeying through things.

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭

    I think the person talking about the lack of Season 1 / Southsun as an "on ramp" had it right.

    In my experience, HoT is very hard… your first time.

    Then you come back to it a second time on a different character, armed with mounts, an understanding of what to expect, and the ability to quickly jet over to the Crystal Desert if you want a few easy hero points… and it's fine. It's great!

    After years away from the game and then a bit of PoF (on mesmer) as a refresher, I had an absolutely great time doing HoT map completion on my thief! Just running around Cluster-Bombing the heck out of Pocket Raptors, cheesing my way up to the air platforms in Verdant Brink on my Springer, gliding and bouncing every which way thanks to my already-half-completed Masteries.

    Pretty sure I only grouped up like three times to 100%-complete all of it including mastery insights and most of the mini-games: twice I popped a tag to do an HP (it's very easy to find people who also want it! or who'll help just because!), and in Dragon's Stand I joined the event meta.

    And that's the thing: these maps are still active and populated. There's people doing the meta, there's people exploring around doing HPs you can group up with, there's big trains scheduled every week or two that'll do easy-mode map completion for players who just can't get the hang of it. The solo content makes you actually feel good about yourself when you beat it, and the group content is rewarding/engaging enough that you can still find a group to do it today.

    And the maps often do manage to feel much more "alive" than static core Tyria where trash mobs wait patiently for you to walk up and stab them.

  • @Healix.5819 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    So if a skilled player who plays casually is not a casual, is casual just synonymous for bad player?

    Yes, it generally is. A skilled player playing casually is going to be far ahead of a casual player playing casually. Some will use casual to solely mean time spent, but you can still be hardcore while only playing an hour a week, and likewise, casual when playing 24/7. Casual/hardcore have multiple definitions based on context, but overall, it is a mindset. A casual player is just playing for fun, doesn't care about learning anything and thus plays poorly with a somewhat random setup while generally relying purely on vertical progression to get past obstacles. They're always going to choose the easiest difficulty when playing games.

    I think including "playing for fun" as a defining feature of casual players compared to hardcore players is a bit misplaced. I'd argue that just about everyone playing the game is playing for fun, it's just that what people find fun varies hugely across the player base. I don't disagree with the rest of your description, I just think suggesting that casuals are the only ones who play for fun is a bad way to view these kind of categories.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    Only time i do hot and pof is for hero points then i'm out again, its not fun at all.. true it was nerfed apparently at release cause so many customers quit but it wasn't even remotely nerfed enough.. I mostly play in tyria as its a lot better gameplay experience. If it had not been for mounts and hero points in hindsight i'd have never even bothered with the expansions.

    That said i hope they learned from their mistakes with cantha.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    Only time i do hot and pof is for hero points then i'm out again, its not fun at all.. true it was nerfed apparently at release cause so many customers quit but it wasn't even remotely nerfed enough.. I mostly play in tyria as its a lot better gameplay experience. If it had not been for mounts and hero points in hindsight i'd have never even bothered with the expansions.

    That said i hope they learned from their mistakes with cantha.

    I do as well, since heart of thorns maps are played more then path of fire maps.
    Hopefully they lean more towards hot in the new expansion.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    Only time i do hot and pof is for hero points then i'm out again, its not fun at all.. true it was nerfed apparently at release cause so many customers quit but it wasn't even remotely nerfed enough.. I mostly play in tyria as its a lot better gameplay experience. If it had not been for mounts and hero points in hindsight i'd have never even bothered with the expansions.

    That said i hope they learned from their mistakes with cantha.

    I do as well, since heart of thorns maps are played more then path of fire maps.
    Hopefully they lean more towards hot in the new expansion.

    Remember at hot release customers mass exited GW2 (i was one of them) so i'm sure that is in the back of their minds daily.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2020

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    Only time i do hot and pof is for hero points then i'm out again, its not fun at all.. true it was nerfed apparently at release cause so many customers quit but it wasn't even remotely nerfed enough.. I mostly play in tyria as its a lot better gameplay experience. If it had not been for mounts and hero points in hindsight i'd have never even bothered with the expansions.

    That said i hope they learned from their mistakes with cantha.

    I do as well, since heart of thorns maps are played more then path of fire maps.
    Hopefully they lean more towards hot in the new expansion.

    Remember at hot release customers mass exited GW2 (i was one of them) so i'm sure that is in the back of their minds daily.

    Did they though? I'm sure that some players may have quit but I have a feeling that the numbers were exaggerated. We don't have the actual numbers, and I doubt Anet would ever provide them, so I would be mindful about holding any particular weight to it. And if people did quit, there are numerous possibilities as to why they did.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    Only time i do hot and pof is for hero points then i'm out again, its not fun at all.. true it was nerfed apparently at release cause so many customers quit but it wasn't even remotely nerfed enough.. I mostly play in tyria as its a lot better gameplay experience. If it had not been for mounts and hero points in hindsight i'd have never even bothered with the expansions.

    That said i hope they learned from their mistakes with cantha.

    I do as well, since heart of thorns maps are played more then path of fire maps.
    Hopefully they lean more towards hot in the new expansion.

    Remember at hot release customers mass exited GW2 (i was one of them) so i'm sure that is in the back of their minds daily.

    Did they though? I'm sure that some players may have quit but I have a feeling that the numbers were exaggerated. We don't have the actual numbers, and I doubt Anet would ever provide them, so I would be mindful about holding any particular weight to it. And if people did quit, there are numerous possibilities as to why they did.

    if it had been a success, they would had shouted it from the rooftops...they didnt
    they would had made more of the same...they didnt
    they would had left it as it was, not started nerfing in the first month
    all YOU have is your "feelings", EVERYTHING else is telling a different story
    when people leave an mmo with a new expansion, it is safe to say, that the expansion has FAILED

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    Only time i do hot and pof is for hero points then i'm out again, its not fun at all.. true it was nerfed apparently at release cause so many customers quit but it wasn't even remotely nerfed enough.. I mostly play in tyria as its a lot better gameplay experience. If it had not been for mounts and hero points in hindsight i'd have never even bothered with the expansions.

    That said i hope they learned from their mistakes with cantha.

    I do as well, since heart of thorns maps are played more then path of fire maps.
    Hopefully they lean more towards hot in the new expansion.

    Remember at hot release customers mass exited GW2 (i was one of them) so i'm sure that is in the back of their minds daily.

    Did they though? I'm sure that some players may have quit but I have a feeling that the numbers were exaggerated. We don't have the actual numbers, and I doubt Anet would ever provide them, so I would be mindful about holding any particular weight to it. And if people did quit, there are numerous possibilities as to why they did.

    if it had been a success, they would had shouted it from the rooftops...they didnt

    Then I guess PoF was a failure too?

    they would had made more of the same...they didnt

    People complained so they over-compensated and went the total opposite by creating dull maps.

    they would had left it as it was, not started nerfing in the first month

    Adjustments didn't come until April the following year. I scanned the patch notes between then and April and all I saw were bug fixes. Lots and lots of bug fixes.

    all YOU have is your "feelings", EVERYTHING else is telling a different story

    Everything else? What is this "everything else" that you're speaking of? You have data on how many people quit the game? You have data on why those people quit the game? Unless you do, you don't have anything. That was my point.

    when people leave an mmo with a new expansion, it is safe to say, that the expansion has FAILED

    As I said above, provide evidence that people left and that it was because of the expansion.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    Only time i do hot and pof is for hero points then i'm out again, its not fun at all.. true it was nerfed apparently at release cause so many customers quit but it wasn't even remotely nerfed enough.. I mostly play in tyria as its a lot better gameplay experience. If it had not been for mounts and hero points in hindsight i'd have never even bothered with the expansions.

    That said i hope they learned from their mistakes with cantha.

    I do as well, since heart of thorns maps are played more then path of fire maps.
    Hopefully they lean more towards hot in the new expansion.

    Remember at hot release customers mass exited GW2 (i was one of them) so i'm sure that is in the back of their minds daily.

    Did they though? I'm sure that some players may have quit but I have a feeling that the numbers were exaggerated. We don't have the actual numbers, and I doubt Anet would ever provide them, so I would be mindful about holding any particular weight to it. And if people did quit, there are numerous possibilities as to why they did.

    if it had been a success, they would had shouted it from the rooftops...they didnt

    Then I guess PoF was a failure too?

    they would had made more of the same...they didnt

    People complained so they over-compensated and went the total opposite by creating dull maps.

    they would had left it as it was, not started nerfing in the first month

    Adjustments didn't come until April the following year. I scanned the patch notes between then and April and all I saw were bug fixes. Lots and lots of bug fixes.

    all YOU have is your "feelings", EVERYTHING else is telling a different story

    Everything else? What is this "everything else" that you're speaking of? You have data on how many people quit the game? You have data on why those people quit the game? Unless you do, you don't have anything. That was my point.

    when people leave an mmo with a new expansion, it is safe to say, that the expansion has FAILED

    As I said above, provide evidence that people left and that it was because of the expansion.

    yep, AFAIK they didnt even release sales for pof
    what you call "dull" i call "functional"
    it wouldnt be the first time they stealth nerfed either
    expansions are still pretty rare, it has to be a real stinker to make people walk AWAY from it
    usually they work the OPPOSITE way, a good expansion will bring old players back and even lure in newcomers too

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Remember at hot release customers mass exited GW2 (i was one of them) so i'm sure that is in the back of their minds daily.

    They did? According to the NCSoft report gem store sales after the release of HOT were "stable", meaning that "mass exodus" did not affect the financials of the game. At least when it comes to in-game / gem store purchases because we all know that the game went free to play shortly before the release of HOT and caused their revenue from sales to tank to the bottom because the core / free game wasn't good enough to force conversions (also identified by NCSoft themselves)

    Also, given how meta events on HOT maps were always well populated, and still are, we can say with a certain degree of certainty that the "mass exodus" you claim to happen had no effect to the game's in-game activity and popularity, nor on their financial state, so even if it did happen it was of no consequence at all. Losing players that play once a month for 20 minutes and not buy anything from the gem store, didn't really hurt the game.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    Only time i do hot and pof is for hero points then i'm out again, its not fun at all.. true it was nerfed apparently at release cause so many customers quit but it wasn't even remotely nerfed enough.. I mostly play in tyria as its a lot better gameplay experience. If it had not been for mounts and hero points in hindsight i'd have never even bothered with the expansions.

    That said i hope they learned from their mistakes with cantha.

    I do as well, since heart of thorns maps are played more then path of fire maps.
    Hopefully they lean more towards hot in the new expansion.

    Remember at hot release customers mass exited GW2 (i was one of them) so i'm sure that is in the back of their minds daily.

    Did they though? I'm sure that some players may have quit but I have a feeling that the numbers were exaggerated. We don't have the actual numbers, and I doubt Anet would ever provide them, so I would be mindful about holding any particular weight to it. And if people did quit, there are numerous possibilities as to why they did.

    if it had been a success, they would had shouted it from the rooftops...they didnt

    Then I guess PoF was a failure too?

    they would had made more of the same...they didnt

    People complained so they over-compensated and went the total opposite by creating dull maps.

    they would had left it as it was, not started nerfing in the first month

    Adjustments didn't come until April the following year. I scanned the patch notes between then and April and all I saw were bug fixes. Lots and lots of bug fixes.

    all YOU have is your "feelings", EVERYTHING else is telling a different story

    Everything else? What is this "everything else" that you're speaking of? You have data on how many people quit the game? You have data on why those people quit the game? Unless you do, you don't have anything. That was my point.

    when people leave an mmo with a new expansion, it is safe to say, that the expansion has FAILED

    As I said above, provide evidence that people left and that it was because of the expansion.

    yep, AFAIK they didnt even release sales for pof

    So how many players quit because of PoF?

    what you call "dull" i call "functional"

    Functional? In what way? Please elaborate.

    it wouldnt be the first time they stealth nerfed either

    Do you have proof that they stealth nerfed? You claimed that they started doing the nerfs the very first month so you must have something, right?

    expansions are still pretty rare, it has to be a real stinker to make people walk AWAY from it
    usually they work the OPPOSITE way, a good expansion will bring old players back and even lure in newcomers too

    Expansions will bring in old and new players whether it's good or bad. Whether they keep them is another story.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    Only time i do hot and pof is for hero points then i'm out again, its not fun at all.. true it was nerfed apparently at release cause so many customers quit but it wasn't even remotely nerfed enough.. I mostly play in tyria as its a lot better gameplay experience. If it had not been for mounts and hero points in hindsight i'd have never even bothered with the expansions.

    That said i hope they learned from their mistakes with cantha.

    I do as well, since heart of thorns maps are played more then path of fire maps.
    Hopefully they lean more towards hot in the new expansion.

    you prollly have bigger chance of finding a gold mine in your back yard, i doubt any mmo dev will ever try anything like that again
    we all saw what happened, you just dont take that sort of unnecessary risks with multi million $ projects
    this isnt only about keeping investors happy, we are talking about their JOBS too

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2020

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Remember at hot release customers mass exited GW2 (i was one of them) so i'm sure that is in the back of their minds daily.

    They did? According to the NCSoft report gem store sales after the release of HOT were "stable", meaning that "mass exodus" did not affect the financials of the game. At least when it comes to in-game / gem store purchases because we all know that the game went free to play shortly before the release of HOT and caused their revenue from sales to tank to the bottom because the core / free game wasn't good enough to force conversions (also identified by NCSoft themselves)

    Also, given how meta events on HOT maps were always well populated, and still are, we can say with a certain degree of certainty that the "mass exodus" you claim to happen had no effect to the game's in-game activity and popularity, nor on their financial state, so even if it did happen it was of no consequence at all. Losing players that play once a month for 20 minutes and not buy anything from the gem store, didn't really hurt the game.

    Considering anet nerfed their content "because it was overtooled and hard on customers" yes there was a mass exodus, do you really think anet would nerf whole expansions (past released content) if there hadn't been a massive backlash and a lot of customers leaving..

    When else has anet ever nerfed whole content expansions in the past before HoT.. Never.
    https://www.mmorpg.com/guild-wars-2/columns/how-heart-of-thorns-failed-and-path-of-fire-succeeded-2000107410