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HoT = Dark Souls ? Casual Gamer perspective.

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  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Considering anet nerfed their content "because it was overtooled and hard on customers" yes there was a mass exodus, do you really think anet would nerf whole expansions (past released content) if there hadn't been a massive backlash and a lot of customers leaving..

    When else has anet ever nerfed whole content expansions in the past before HoT.. Never.

    The "massive nerf" you are talking about was removing the need for participation to get rewards from meta events, effectively killing HOT maps outside their big meta events. That was in part due to complaints, but also because love going from event to event, on a timer, to get all the rewards they can. With the old participation system that wasn't possible as you had to stay on a map for a long time to increase your participation. In other words the "nerf" they applied to HOT maps was because of player greed, not because of difficulty or challenge.

    The article is talking about masteries and I agree the masteries you get in POF are better than those you get in HOT (and of course those you get in the living world)

    They also did large changes to mobs and creatures, not enough imo but they did lower the difficulties drastically.
    https://www.pcgamer.com/au/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-review/#comment-jump
    https://www.ign.com/articles/2015/11/07/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-review

    While those reviews aren't devastating they aren't glowing either.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2020

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Considering anet nerfed their content "because it was overtooled and hard on customers" yes there was a mass exodus, do you really think anet would nerf whole expansions (past released content) if there hadn't been a massive backlash and a lot of customers leaving..

    When else has anet ever nerfed whole content expansions in the past before HoT.. Never.

    The "massive nerf" you are talking about was removing the need for participation to get rewards from meta events, effectively killing HOT maps outside their big meta events. That was in part due to complaints, but also because love going from event to event, on a timer, to get all the rewards they can. With the old participation system that wasn't possible as you had to stay on a map for a long time to increase your participation. In other words the "nerf" they applied to HOT maps was because of player greed, not because of difficulty or challenge.

    The article is talking about masteries and I agree the masteries you get in POF are better than those you get in HOT (and of course those you get in the living world)

    They also did large changes to mobs and creatures, not enough imo but they did lower the difficulties drastically.
    https://www.pcgamer.com/au/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-review/#comment-jump
    https://www.ign.com/articles/2015/11/07/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-review

    While those reviews aren't devastating they aren't glowing either.

    They didn't do any "large changes" to mobs and creatures though. There were a few small balance changes like removing the complete invulnerability of Itzel Shadowleapers to ranged attacks, now they only evade ranged attacks when they do their "leap", but the changes overall were minor to use the word "drastically". Maybe it's your perception that changed, you got better at playing the game and that's why HOT looked so much easier, because based on patch notes, there was no "drastic" mob overhaul, only some minor changes on some specific mobs

    As for the reviews, just be happy they don't review the Living World

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Considering anet nerfed their content "because it was overtooled and hard on customers" yes there was a mass exodus, do you really think anet would nerf whole expansions (past released content) if there hadn't been a massive backlash and a lot of customers leaving..

    When else has anet ever nerfed whole content expansions in the past before HoT.. Never.

    The "massive nerf" you are talking about was removing the need for participation to get rewards from meta events, effectively killing HOT maps outside their big meta events. That was in part due to complaints, but also because love going from event to event, on a timer, to get all the rewards they can. With the old participation system that wasn't possible as you had to stay on a map for a long time to increase your participation. In other words the "nerf" they applied to HOT maps was because of player greed, not because of difficulty or challenge.

    The article is talking about masteries and I agree the masteries you get in POF are better than those you get in HOT (and of course those you get in the living world)

    They also did large changes to mobs and creatures, not enough imo but they did lower the difficulties drastically.
    https://www.pcgamer.com/au/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-review/#comment-jump
    https://www.ign.com/articles/2015/11/07/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-review

    While those reviews aren't devastating they aren't glowing either.

    They didn't do any "large changes" to mobs and creatures though. There were a few small balance changes like removing the complete invulnerability of Itzel Shadowleapers to ranged attacks, now they only evade ranged attacks when they do their "leap", but the changes overall were minor to use the word "drastically". Maybe it's your perception that changed, you got better at playing the game and that's why HOT looked so much easier, because based on patch notes, there was no "drastic" mob overhaul, only some minor changes on some specific mobs

    As for the reviews, just be happy they don't review the Living World

    Yes there was, it was significantly lowered, mob populations were lowered and also were damage reduced.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/66j7zo/the_guild_wars_2_heart_of_thorns_review_how_did/
    Here is good summary.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2016-04-19

    I personally don't like video sources because it wastes so much time to watch them and there's always the chance that they don't actually support the claim that they're being used for.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2020

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Considering anet nerfed their content "because it was overtooled and hard on customers" yes there was a mass exodus, do you really think anet would nerf whole expansions (past released content) if there hadn't been a massive backlash and a lot of customers leaving..

    When else has anet ever nerfed whole content expansions in the past before HoT.. Never.

    The "massive nerf" you are talking about was removing the need for participation to get rewards from meta events, effectively killing HOT maps outside their big meta events. That was in part due to complaints, but also because love going from event to event, on a timer, to get all the rewards they can. With the old participation system that wasn't possible as you had to stay on a map for a long time to increase your participation. In other words the "nerf" they applied to HOT maps was because of player greed, not because of difficulty or challenge.

    The article is talking about masteries and I agree the masteries you get in POF are better than those you get in HOT (and of course those you get in the living world)

    They also did large changes to mobs and creatures, not enough imo but they did lower the difficulties drastically.
    https://www.pcgamer.com/au/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-review/#comment-jump
    https://www.ign.com/articles/2015/11/07/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-review

    While those reviews aren't devastating they aren't glowing either.

    They didn't do any "large changes" to mobs and creatures though. There were a few small balance changes like removing the complete invulnerability of Itzel Shadowleapers to ranged attacks, now they only evade ranged attacks when they do their "leap", but the changes overall were minor to use the word "drastically". Maybe it's your perception that changed, you got better at playing the game and that's why HOT looked so much easier, because based on patch notes, there was no "drastic" mob overhaul, only some minor changes on some specific mobs

    As for the reviews, just be happy they don't review the Living World

    Yes there was, it was significantly lowered, mob populations were lowered and also were damage reduced.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/66j7zo/the_guild_wars_2_heart_of_thorns_review_how_did/
    Here is good summary.

    You can find the actual patch notes here:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2016-04-19

    They reduced spawns on some "choke points", turned some champions into veterans and reduced the amount of mobs spawing during events. No sweeping changes to the actual difficulty/challenge of mobs. Good luck

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2020

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Considering anet nerfed their content "because it was overtooled and hard on customers" yes there was a mass exodus, do you really think anet would nerf whole expansions (past released content) if there hadn't been a massive backlash and a lot of customers leaving..

    When else has anet ever nerfed whole content expansions in the past before HoT.. Never.

    The "massive nerf" you are talking about was removing the need for participation to get rewards from meta events, effectively killing HOT maps outside their big meta events. That was in part due to complaints, but also because love going from event to event, on a timer, to get all the rewards they can. With the old participation system that wasn't possible as you had to stay on a map for a long time to increase your participation. In other words the "nerf" they applied to HOT maps was because of player greed, not because of difficulty or challenge.

    The article is talking about masteries and I agree the masteries you get in POF are better than those you get in HOT (and of course those you get in the living world)

    They also did large changes to mobs and creatures, not enough imo but they did lower the difficulties drastically.
    https://www.pcgamer.com/au/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-review/#comment-jump
    https://www.ign.com/articles/2015/11/07/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-review

    While those reviews aren't devastating they aren't glowing either.

    They didn't do any "large changes" to mobs and creatures though. There were a few small balance changes like removing the complete invulnerability of Itzel Shadowleapers to ranged attacks, now they only evade ranged attacks when they do their "leap", but the changes overall were minor to use the word "drastically". Maybe it's your perception that changed, you got better at playing the game and that's why HOT looked so much easier, because based on patch notes, there was no "drastic" mob overhaul, only some minor changes on some specific mobs

    As for the reviews, just be happy they don't review the Living World

    Yes there was, it was significantly lowered, mob populations were lowered and also were damage reduced.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/66j7zo/the_guild_wars_2_heart_of_thorns_review_how_did/
    Here is good summary.

    You can find the actual patch notes here:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2016-04-19

    They reduced spawns on some "choke points", turned some champions into veterans and reduced the amount of mobs spawing during events. No sweeping changes to the actual difficulty/challenge of mobs. Good luck

    For guildwars 2 that is sweeping changes, especially for a company that "doesn't go back and fix older content" They may not be significant to you but it was the difference in playing or not playing the content for me, pretty significant and i firmly believe there have been a number of stealth nerfs to heart of thorns since.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2016-04-19

    I personally don't like video sources because it wastes so much time to watch them and there's always the chance that they don't actually support the claim that they're being used for.

    You ask for sources then disregard them, gg..

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2016-04-19

    I personally don't like video sources because it wastes so much time to watch them and there's always the chance that they don't actually support the claim that they're being used for.

    You ask for sources then disregard them, gg..

    The thing is that I have seen people use videos as their source while expecting people to not actually watch them. Videos are okay if they're the only source. Since the patch notes are readily accessible, they're the better source.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2016-04-19

    I personally don't like video sources because it wastes so much time to watch them and there's always the chance that they don't actually support the claim that they're being used for.

    You ask for sources then disregard them, gg..

    The thing is that I have seen people use videos as their source while expecting people to not actually watch them. Videos are okay if they're the only source. Since the patch notes are readily accessible, they're the better source.

    EDIT:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    For guildwars 2 that is sweeping changes, especially for a company that "doesn't go back and fix older content" They may not be significant to you but it was the difference in playing or not playing the content for me, pretty significant and i firmly believe there have been a number of stealth nerfs to heart of thorns since.

    Significant should refer to how much the changes affected the map and not how they affected your personal experience. The latter is very subjective.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2020

    @Dante.1508 said:
    For guildwars 2 that is sweeping changes, especially for a company that "doesn't go back and fix older content" They may not be significant to you but it was the difference in playing or not playing the content for me, pretty significant and i firmly believe there have been a number of stealth nerfs to heart of thorns since.

    As I said, your perception changed because you became better at playing the game when you went back to play HOT again. The changes to mob density and turning champions into veterans was because, as expected, population during off-final events was going to be reduced thanks to the changes in the reward system. When HOT was released, players had to play before the actual meta started, meaning there were enough players to combat high density spawns during events and many champions. For example, on release the Pylon events had to be completed to acquire enough participation to get maximum rewards from the Octovine meta, but after they changed the way they handle rewards, those events were mostly deserted, meaning the higher spawn density and the appearance of champions would make those events impossible to complete for anyone still interested in them.

    The changes were made to support the new reward scheme of HOT zones and keep the maps alive when the timer wasn't showing "meta time".

    @Dante.1508 said:
    You ask for sources then disregard them, gg..

    You did not provide a source to verify your claims. You provided a video that supposedly talks about your claims. Provide a time stamp of those videos where it's specifically and without any doubt stated that a specific mob was severely nerfed and then that video is supporting your claims. Then we can check the patch notes to verify if it's the perception of the one making the video that changed, or the actual content.

    Edit: and same with the reviews you posted earlier. The way to post SOURCES that back up any claim is to provide a quote where it is clearly supported, and then provide a link for the source of that quote. Expecting someone to go and read an entire article on the off chance that they will find something that supports your claim is not the way to provide sources. Anyone can post links to videos and reviews and then say "hey these are my sources", the question is if there is actually something there that supports the claim in the first place.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Would love to see that, and also provide foot age of myself running the same route as you to explain my thought process. It can also be raw footage so its as low effort as possible. If you have specific time stamps to call out thatd be a good plus.

    @Ayrilana.1396

    I tried recording using OBS but my computer graphics card can't handle recording and playing GW2 on lowest settings at the same time. The footage is too laggy to be able to tell what's going on. My graphics card died a while back and i haven't had enough money to get a new one so i'm just stuck with this. I can provide the laggy footage if you're so inclined but it's like 1 frame a few seconds at best, so you can't really see what i'm doing.

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • Been playing since 2012. HoT was (and still is) very difficult, especially if you are playing solo. Even Map Completion can be a challenge! Before Mounts we sometimes had to wait until a specific event to reach a Poi or Vista. Assuming you have a flying mount, map completion is much easier.

    I believe ANET's intended for HoT was for level 80 group content. Even the pre-zone living world for the HoT expansion (Silverwastes) was challenging, I'd suggest joining squads for HoT content or HP Trains if you need hero points. There may even be a guild or two that still farms HoT zones.

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Would love to see that, and also provide foot age of myself running the same route as you to explain my thought process. It can also be raw footage so its as low effort as possible. If you have specific time stamps to call out thatd be a good plus.

    @Ayrilana.1396

    I tried recording using OBS but my computer graphics card can't handle recording and playing GW2 on lowest settings at the same time. The footage is too laggy to be able to tell what's going on. My graphics card died a while back and i haven't had enough money to get a new one so i'm just stuck with this. I can provide the laggy footage if you're so inclined but it's like 1 frame a few seconds at best, so you can't really see what i'm doing.

    Link it anyway.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Would love to see that, and also provide foot age of myself running the same route as you to explain my thought process. It can also be raw footage so its as low effort as possible. If you have specific time stamps to call out thatd be a good plus.

    @Ayrilana.1396

    I tried recording using OBS but my computer graphics card can't handle recording and playing GW2 on lowest settings at the same time. The footage is too laggy to be able to tell what's going on. My graphics card died a while back and i haven't had enough money to get a new one so i'm just stuck with this. I can provide the laggy footage if you're so inclined but it's like 1 frame a few seconds at best, so you can't really see what i'm doing.

    Link it anyway.


    I apologise for the terrible lag.

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2020

    @castlemanic.3198

    From what I can tell from the video, you will have a much easier time with your build if you pre-charge your mantras before combat. (They'll happily stay charged forever.)

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ASP.8093 said:
    @castlemanic.3198

    From what I can tell from the video, you will have a much easier time with your build if you pre-charge your mantras before combat. (They'll happily stay charged forever.)

    I have the trait where if you cast the mantra you gain health, i use mantra of pain (i think that's it's name) as a quick way of getting a health boost while my healing mantra is on cooldown.

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    Then dont play it. PoF is there for you and is MUCH easier than HoT; I dont want the content being made to be easier as it is. This game already isn't challenging in many area's of the PvE field and if you think HoT is bad the new living world maps have much more punishing mobs. Drakkar specifically is a pretty tough world boss, and the newest map has a pretty tough meta too where people constantly die. Id argue that the events in S4 and those maps are ALSO just as hard but for different reasons, Core is hardly played by many unless map completion is required for a solid reason. There is no reason to waste time in those maps once you've completed them as they aren't rewarding, and they have little to nothing to work toward in those maps.

    Im pretty casual of a gamer, being a casual of a game does not mean you're bad. Refusing to adapt is what hangs most people up~

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @ASP.8093 said:
    @castlemanic.3198

    From what I can tell from the video, you will have a much easier time with your build if you pre-charge your mantras before combat. (They'll happily stay charged forever.)

    I have the trait where if you cast the mantra you gain health, i use mantra of pain (i think that's it's name) as a quick way of getting a health boost while my healing mantra is on cooldown.

    Honestly, chiming in, from having played mesmer in open world for quite some time now, you really shouldn’t play more than mantra at a time.
    More than one just slows you down way too much unless you intend to play the content with a group of people around you.

    If you really need that additional sustain from the inspiration trait line, I would honestly just stick to the mantra pain and play full core dom/illu/inspiration with ether feast . Other than that, if you don’t have any healing power, no point in taking the healing mantra.

  • Cantha will be easier than core to apease the casuals

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭

    Mantra of Pain has barely any cooldown and insta-casts: if you want to use the charge-up for a small heal, just dump your damage preemptively (and build vuln on your targets).

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2020

    Thank you all for the tips, thats really been informative, especially @Shikaru.7618, thats quite some detail for the run. I think im gonna stick with my build and try to get better at it, taking all your advice about precasting mantras and stuff. Thank you all again, I really appreciate it.

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Healix.5819 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    So if a skilled player who plays casually is not a casual, is casual just synonymous for bad player?

    Yes, it generally is. A skilled player playing casually is going to be far ahead of a casual player playing casually. Some will use casual to solely mean time spent, but you can still be hardcore while only playing an hour a week, and likewise, casual when playing 24/7. Casual/hardcore have multiple definitions based on context, but overall, it is a mindset. A casual player is just playing for fun, doesn't care about learning anything and thus plays poorly with a somewhat random setup while generally relying purely on vertical progression to get past obstacles. They're always going to choose the easiest difficulty when playing games.

    That is a broad generalization. I consider myself very casual by the first part of your definition, but the playing poorly part does not define me. Neither does the lack of wanting to learn. Your definition here almost offends me as a "casual player" because I'm not like that.

    As a community, I believe that we need to stop dissecting casual vs hardcore because the definitions are too vague. It makes for poor discussion and debate.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • @castlemanic.3198 said:
    Thank you all for the tips, thats really been informative, especially @Shikaru.7618, thats quite some detail for the run. I think im gonna stick with my build and try to get better at it, taking all your advice about precautions mantras and stuff. Thank you all again, I really appreciate it.

    Kitty also watched a bit and it looked pretty much like a build and L2P issue.
    1. The crit rate looked pretty low and you aforementioned having mantra heal trait which means you're trait-wise running a support-style build and if you don't have high healing power (which totally kills your damage), that just means you're getting tiny bit of extra sustain while taking way longer to kill stuff and since the incoming damage per sec is somewhat fixed and 98% likely higher than your sustain (HoT mobs hurt a lot but they're pretty squishy), that sustain actually works AGAINST you. HoT is about who kills faster and tactical evasion timings and even pure heal builds struggle against ganks due to inability to outsustain as solo.
    And in general, one huge problem about casuals is their builds. Game itself doesn't teach about builds at all and due to vast amount of options, many casuals drown in them and run very inefficient builds with low synergy (if any) which makes things innecessarily multiple times harder for them. Statistically majority of casuals do 5-10% of the damage that hardcores do and half of that 90%+ difference is gears+traits+choice of weapons.
    2. Be mindful about your positioning. At some points, Kitty noticed that you left enemies at your back and that easily leaves you blind to them. In HoT, bad positioning, not paying attention to what mobs are doing and wasting blocks/evades on minor attacks instead of heavy-hitters means death. As Sun Tzu wrote: "If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle."

    Kitty's doesn't know what's your exact build atm but here's a good one for open-world. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAExzlVwoYbsFWJW6WataA-zRIYhSND9VIRlABGCRUBqMLifGB-e
    -Use Focus instead of greatsword if you're fighting masses so you can pull enemies together. Use greatsword if you need to range something.
    -Using CCs (F3, Mantra, Gravity Well) and Well of Calamity apply Slow which means 100% crit rate and extra damage thanks to Danger Time and Superiority Complex.
    -If fighting boss mobs, start by summoning 3 clones with gs2+sword 3+sword 4 block and start Continuum Split. Use sword 5+Illusionary Disenchanter+one mantra charge+Well of Calamity+heal signet+sword 5+Disenchanter again during Continuum Split and repeat after the split is over for tons of phantasms and massive damage. Also use F3 and F1 whenever you have 3 clones for them. If you don't get downed during the split, this will also restore you to full health after split is over.

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks.

  • @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Healix.5819 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    So if a skilled player who plays casually is not a casual, is casual just synonymous for bad player?

    Yes, it generally is. A skilled player playing casually is going to be far ahead of a casual player playing casually. Some will use casual to solely mean time spent, but you can still be hardcore while only playing an hour a week, and likewise, casual when playing 24/7. Casual/hardcore have multiple definitions based on context, but overall, it is a mindset. A casual player is just playing for fun, doesn't care about learning anything and thus plays poorly with a somewhat random setup while generally relying purely on vertical progression to get past obstacles. They're always going to choose the easiest difficulty when playing games.

    That is a broad generalization. I consider myself very casual by the first part of your definition, but the playing poorly part does not define me. Neither does the lack of wanting to learn. Your definition here almost offends me as a "casual player" because I'm not like that.

    As a community, I believe that we need to stop dissecting casual vs hardcore because the definitions are too vague. It makes for poor discussion and debate.

    Yeah, it seems like every player has their own ideas on what defines "casual" players. I'm good enough to win duels against legendary tier in PvP, but I don't play much ranked or participate in tournaments. I'm comfortable roaming in WvW by myself and frequently win outnumbered, but I dislike running with a squad. I can solo any HoT champion and many PoF bounties as well, but organized group content like raids/strikes are not something I've spent much time on. I think that makes me pretty casual. But "bad"? Probably not.

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Everything is easy when you minmax and play elitespecs.

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • Healix.5819Healix.5819 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    That is a broad generalization. I consider myself very casual by the first part of your definition, but the playing poorly part does not define me. Neither does the lack of wanting to learn. Your definition here almost offends me as a "casual player" because I'm not like that.

    Casual/hardcore has many levels and can refer to time spent, effort, or difficulty. That description was for an all-around casual - they tend to make up a sizeable chunk of the market, which exploded with mobile games.

    Casual players do eventually learn things, but only through repeated play or by chance - they're not going to bother researching the game for example, or even read through their skills. As for playing poorly, they essentially just press buttons and have thrown together gear/builds/etc. These are well known problems that MMOs face. You can consider yourself a casual player in one way, but that doesn't make you a casual - you'll need more casual to unlock that title. Likewise, raids are generally considered hardcore content, but doing them doesn't make you hardcore, nor does not doing them make you casual. It doesn't have to be one or the other, you can simply be a regular player, or anything in between.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.

    At the time before HoT the player base was asking for more challenging content and more content for groups. HoT was the answer to that request. Prior to PoF the request that was being voiced was for more open world and solo content, hence we got PoF. There will be crossover from these groups, but in a lot of cases there may not be as much. The current requests have been about map meta's and build ups for groups. We will have to see if that shows up in the third expansion. I think if I was with ANet I would recognize the differences in the requesting groups and make sure I include all three. Areas for groups with events and metas and also open world areas for the explorers and mixes of events that support map, group and solo play elements. But no, I would say I side on don't change HoT, its inline right now, especially after you factor in the reduction of challenge created from mounts. Also prefer the HoT maps complexity versus just the flat open of PoF maps. But your mileage will vary.

  • Tere.4759Tere.4759 Member ✭✭✭

    Map chat is your friend when doing HOT. Players are very willing to come help out with bosses.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tere.4759 said:
    Map chat is your friend when doing HOT. Players are very willing to come help out with bosses.

    Depending on time of day/night, you're right. I recently leveled a toon and ran into VB for the hero points and never had trouble getting help when asked.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • kraai.7265kraai.7265 Member ✭✭✭

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.

    At the time before HoT the player base was asking for more challenging content and more content for groups. HoT was the answer to that request. Prior to PoF the request that was being voiced was for more open world and solo content, hence we got PoF. There will be crossover from these groups, but in a lot of cases there may not be as much. The current requests have been about map meta's and build ups for groups. We will have to see if that shows up in the third expansion. I think if I was with ANet I would recognize the differences in the requesting groups and make sure I include all three. Areas for groups with events and metas and also open world areas for the explorers and mixes of events that support map, group and solo play elements. But no, I would say I side on don't change HoT, its inline right now, especially after you factor in the reduction of challenge created from mounts. Also prefer the HoT maps complexity versus just the flat open of PoF maps. But your mileage will vary.

    Though it took me a while to "forgive" some of the stuff HoT did, I really like how both expansions turned out.

    With HoT, it really feels like the pact is on its back foot and you're struggling to figure out what to do after Scarlet broke the world and it's become clear that just throwing Unity and Airships at dragons isn't a suitable solution. Everything feels like it's up for grabs and every map represents a specialized attack plan. The maps feel perilous even though they're actually abounding in allies and resources.

    By the time you've hit PoF, you've truly become the veteran dragon-slayer on your way to something more. Elona is, first and foremost, a place where people live. It feels big but manageable. Large parts of it are more about meeting people and "blending in" a bit than just wrangling your resources and taking the fight to the enemy 24-7. I wish some of the enemy AI was more "active" but, beyond that, the vibe is great, imo: you're not just here to raise your flag and lead 10,000 peasants into a fight that'll get half of them killed immediately, your goals are a lot more personal even while you're still doing save-the-world stuff.

    And then Season 4 both cleans up the loose ends from the storyline and lets the Pact really push towards a big, fulfilling win that's built on a combination of personal and organizational stuff.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ASP.8093 said:

    Though it took me a while to "forgive" some of the stuff HoT did, I really like how both expansions turned out.

    I can just speak of my guildmates but the change in direction of you won't be completing the map before moving on because there will be parts to unlock as you go took time to sink in, even though ANet told people it still took some time to fully understand that. To me the multiple layers slowed people down from just running thru teh content since they couldn't get it all in flash like they were used with more core map styes. All those additional details made people love it or hate it, it seemed in the beginning. Overtime as people played it though, the ones it converted from hating it have loved it. Will have to see how they answer the same questions in the next one. I would love for ANet to post the most recent numbers of pocket raptor player kills. It was a crazy number years ago. That and when do rangers get them. :)

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Cantha will be easier than core to apease the casuals

    I sure hope you're right as a lot of customers will then play it more, even if its just off and on play.. also praise will go a long way to keep content coming after Cantha, if it is hated as bad as Heart of Thorns was do you think Anet will go for a number 4, 8-9 years later.. I feel they'd be less inclined to if its panned myself.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2020

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    Thank you all for the tips, thats really been informative, especially @Shikaru.7618, thats quite some detail for the run. I think im gonna stick with my build and try to get better at it, taking all your advice about precasting mantras and stuff. Thank you all again, I really appreciate it.

    As a fellow Casual customer i've been playing my mesmer and just updated to this build and honestly having the best time on content like pof and hot in maybe 7 years on mesmer
    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_Mirage
    I don't like myself going to metabattle for help usually but this build was very helpful to me. (i use the Viper version but only one staff and axe and pistol as my secondary) It isn't the most damage build but kills well, it has unreal survivability.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Cantha will be easier than core to apease the casuals

    without stre> @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    Cantha will be easier than core to apease the casuals

    unless they streamline the rest of the game, that wont help much. and i doubt that they have the manpower for that, while making a new expansion too.
    alternatively, they could make some super powerful masteries, that work on all maps, that would prolly be the biggest selling point they could hope for now

  • Laila Lightness.8742Laila Lightness.8742 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2020

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Cantha will be easier than core to apease the casuals

    without stre> @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    Cantha will be easier than core to apease the casuals

    unless they streamline the rest of the game, that wont help much. and i doubt that they have the manpower for that, while making a new expansion too.
    alternatively, they could make some super powerful masteries, that work on all maps, that would prolly be the biggest selling point they could hope for now

    Or just make it so easy you cant die and also make raids easier by reworking them to world bosses without mechanics. Aswell make everything die in 1 hit. Sure it might get boring after a while (sarcasm) the reason ppl left wasnt difficulty it was on release hot stated to include base game wich was f2p into the price and before was due to there wasnt really much to do or anything engaging enougj to make ppl play more than the ls eps. And the fear gw 2 would end up like most f2p mmos

  • I remember back in the 90's when devs just told people to gitgud.

    Those were better days.

    Pandering to casuals just ruins the game for everyone else. Open world PvE is already mind numbingly easy enough as it is.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2020

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Cantha will be easier than core to apease the casuals

    without stre> @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    Cantha will be easier than core to apease the casuals

    unless they streamline the rest of the game, that wont help much. and i doubt that they have the manpower for that, while making a new expansion too.
    alternatively, they could make some super powerful masteries, that work on all maps, that would prolly be the biggest selling point they could hope for now

    Or just make it so easy you cant die and also make raids easier by reworking them to world bosses without mechanics. Aswell make everything die in 1 hit

    dont care what happens to raids, since i never touch them. difficulty should never vary this much in the same game mode, there is a difference between
    ramping it up slowly over time, and simply BROKEN. i would be very surprised, if cantha turned out to be harder, than pof
    still at least a year away from that, we just have to wait and see. maybe a certain,big space mmo has even launched by then...
    i actually forgot the name of that big space mmo...how embarrasing

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

    its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT
    quitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the end
    if you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that great
    but if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

  • @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

    its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT
    quitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the end
    if you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that great
    but if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

    Iknow ppl who thought core was to hard should we nerf it down

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

    its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT
    quitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the end
    if you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that great
    but if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

    Iknow ppl who thought core was to hard should we nerf it down

    they have already started on that too, and the whole ending needs a full revamp for it to click with the main audience.
    orr needs to go from the main storyline, then they can turn it a into hardcore zone again
    zhaitan fight cant be saved, just make it as quick and painless as possible

  • Laila Lightness.8742Laila Lightness.8742 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2020

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @AdamWarlord.6782 said:
    Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. ** I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner. **

    Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

    1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
    2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
    3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
    4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
    5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
    6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
    7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
    8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
    9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

    I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

    Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.
    Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

    What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

    its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT
    quitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the end
    if you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that great
    but if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

    Iknow ppl who thought core was to hard should we nerf it down

    they have already started on that too, and the whole ending needs a full revamp for it to click with the main audience.
    orr needs to go from the main storyline, then they can turn it a into hardcore zone again
    zhaitan fight cant be saved, just make it as quick and painless as possible

    Or nerf orr so all can play. Some ppl think zhaitan is to hard. Also ppl i talked about quited 2h in queensdale for it iwas to hard to do wurm heart. Also most casual players dont want hardcore content tp exist or atleast not have rewards they cant get

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Remember at hot release customers mass exited GW2 (i was one of them) so i'm sure that is in the back of their minds daily.

    They did? According to the NCSoft report gem store sales after the release of HOT were "stable", meaning that "mass exodus" did not affect the financials of the game. At least when it comes to in-game / gem store purchases because we all know that the game went free to play shortly before the release of HOT and caused their revenue from sales to tank to the bottom because the core / free game wasn't good enough to force conversions (also identified by NCSoft themselves)

    Also, given how meta events on HOT maps were always well populated, and still are, we can say with a certain degree of certainty that the "mass exodus" you claim to happen had no effect to the game's in-game activity and popularity, nor on their financial state, so even if it did happen it was of no consequence at all. Losing players that play once a month for 20 minutes and not buy anything from the gem store, didn't really hurt the game.

    Considering anet nerfed their content "because it was overtooled and hard on customers" yes there was a mass exodus, do you really think anet would nerf whole expansions (past released content) if there hadn't been a massive backlash and a lot of customers leaving..

    When else has anet ever nerfed whole content expansions in the past before HoT.. Never.
    https://www.mmorpg.com/guild-wars-2/columns/how-heart-of-thorns-failed-and-path-of-fire-succeeded-2000107410

    yea but hot was the first, so there is a reason for that. you cant nerf it, if it isnt made yet...
    pof could use a nerf too (aggro range, anyone?).
    kitten it, lets just nerf it all, just to be on the safe side....NERF NERF NERF

  • @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Remember at hot release customers mass exited GW2 (i was one of them) so i'm sure that is in the back of their minds daily.

    They did? According to the NCSoft report gem store sales after the release of HOT were "stable", meaning that "mass exodus" did not affect the financials of the game. At least when it comes to in-game / gem store purchases because we all know that the game went free to play shortly before the release of HOT and caused their revenue from sales to tank to the bottom because the core / free game wasn't good enough to force conversions (also identified by NCSoft themselves)

    Also, given how meta events on HOT maps were always well populated, and still are, we can say with a certain degree of certainty that the "mass exodus" you claim to happen had no effect to the game's in-game activity and popularity, nor on their financial state, so even if it did happen it was of no consequence at all. Losing players that play once a month for 20 minutes and not buy anything from the gem store, didn't really hurt the game.

    Considering anet nerfed their content "because it was overtooled and hard on customers" yes there was a mass exodus, do you really think anet would nerf whole expansions (past released content) if there hadn't been a massive backlash and a lot of customers leaving..

    When else has anet ever nerfed whole content expansions in the past before HoT.. Never.
    https://www.mmorpg.com/guild-wars-2/columns/how-heart-of-thorns-failed-and-path-of-fire-succeeded-2000107410

    yea but hot was the first, so there is a reason for that. you cant nerf it, if it isnt made yet...
    pof could use a nerf too (aggro range, anyone?).
    kitten it, lets just nerf it all, just to be on the safe side....NERF NERF NERF

    They could add a auto move and combat function like in mobile mmos like lineage2 mobile

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Remember at hot release customers mass exited GW2 (i was one of them) so i'm sure that is in the back of their minds daily.

    They did? According to the NCSoft report gem store sales after the release of HOT were "stable", meaning that "mass exodus" did not affect the financials of the game. At least when it comes to in-game / gem store purchases because we all know that the game went free to play shortly before the release of HOT and caused their revenue from sales to tank to the bottom because the core / free game wasn't good enough to force conversions (also identified by NCSoft themselves)

    Also, given how meta events on HOT maps were always well populated, and still are, we can say with a certain degree of certainty that the "mass exodus" you claim to happen had no effect to the game's in-game activity and popularity, nor on their financial state, so even if it did happen it was of no consequence at all. Losing players that play once a month for 20 minutes and not buy anything from the gem store, didn't really hurt the game.

    Considering anet nerfed their content "because it was overtooled and hard on customers" yes there was a mass exodus, do you really think anet would nerf whole expansions (past released content) if there hadn't been a massive backlash and a lot of customers leaving..

    When else has anet ever nerfed whole content expansions in the past before HoT.. Never.
    https://www.mmorpg.com/guild-wars-2/columns/how-heart-of-thorns-failed-and-path-of-fire-succeeded-2000107410

    yea but hot was the first, so there is a reason for that. you cant nerf it, if it isnt made yet...
    pof could use a nerf too (aggro range, anyone?).
    kitten it, lets just nerf it all, just to be on the safe side....NERF NERF NERF

    They could add a auto move and combat function like in mobile mmos like lineage2 mobile

    given the bot infestation, its a big NO on more auto features.
    they have made some of best looking maps in the business, they just need to stop chasing the players away from them.

  • Laila Lightness.8742Laila Lightness.8742 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2020

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Remember at hot release customers mass exited GW2 (i was one of them) so i'm sure that is in the back of their minds daily.

    They did? According to the NCSoft report gem store sales after the release of HOT were "stable", meaning that "mass exodus" did not affect the financials of the game. At least when it comes to in-game / gem store purchases because we all know that the game went free to play shortly before the release of HOT and caused their revenue from sales to tank to the bottom because the core / free game wasn't good enough to force conversions (also identified by NCSoft themselves)

    Also, given how meta events on HOT maps were always well populated, and still are, we can say with a certain degree of certainty that the "mass exodus" you claim to happen had no effect to the game's in-game activity and popularity, nor on their financial state, so even if it did happen it was of no consequence at all. Losing players that play once a month for 20 minutes and not buy anything from the gem store, didn't really hurt the game.

    Considering anet nerfed their content "because it was overtooled and hard on customers" yes there was a mass exodus, do you really think anet would nerf whole expansions (past released content) if there hadn't been a massive backlash and a lot of customers leaving..

    When else has anet ever nerfed whole content expansions in the past before HoT.. Never.
    https://www.mmorpg.com/guild-wars-2/columns/how-heart-of-thorns-failed-and-path-of-fire-succeeded-2000107410

    yea but hot was the first, so there is a reason for that. you cant nerf it, if it isnt made yet...
    pof could use a nerf too (aggro range, anyone?).
    kitten it, lets just nerf it all, just to be on the safe side....NERF NERF NERF

    They could add a auto move and combat function like in mobile mmos like lineage2 mobile

    given the bot infestation, its a big NO on more auto features.
    they have made some of best looking maps in the business, they just need to stop chasing the players away from them.

    Maybe remove the healthbars so you get downed or die so you never have to feel any risk and its easy to play for everyone(sarcasm)

  • @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Remember at hot release customers mass exited GW2 (i was one of them) so i'm sure that is in the back of their minds daily.

    They did? According to the NCSoft report gem store sales after the release of HOT were "stable", meaning that "mass exodus" did not affect the financials of the game. At least when it comes to in-game / gem store purchases because we all know that the game went free to play shortly before the release of HOT and caused their revenue from sales to tank to the bottom because the core / free game wasn't good enough to force conversions (also identified by NCSoft themselves)

    Also, given how meta events on HOT maps were always well populated, and still are, we can say with a certain degree of certainty that the "mass exodus" you claim to happen had no effect to the game's in-game activity and popularity, nor on their financial state, so even if it did happen it was of no consequence at all. Losing players that play once a month for 20 minutes and not buy anything from the gem store, didn't really hurt the game.

    Considering anet nerfed their content "because it was overtooled and hard on customers" yes there was a mass exodus, do you really think anet would nerf whole expansions (past released content) if there hadn't been a massive backlash and a lot of customers leaving..

    When else has anet ever nerfed whole content expansions in the past before HoT.. Never.
    https://www.mmorpg.com/guild-wars-2/columns/how-heart-of-thorns-failed-and-path-of-fire-succeeded-2000107410

    yea but hot was the first, so there is a reason for that. you cant nerf it, if it isnt made yet...
    pof could use a nerf too (aggro range, anyone?).
    kitten it, lets just nerf it all, just to be on the safe side....NERF NERF NERF

    They could add a auto move and combat function like in mobile mmos like lineage2 mobile

    given the bot infestation, its a big NO on more auto features.
    they have made some of best looking maps in the business, they just need to stop chasing the players away from them.

    They must make the game easier so its impossible to ever lose that way no hardcore or feeling of danger

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    I remember back in the 90's when devs just told people to gitgud.

    Those were better days.

    Pandering to casuals just ruins the game for everyone else. Open world PvE is already mind numbingly easy enough as it is.

    and if it isnt, then there wont be millions of casuals to pay for THE GAME. wildstar showed us where THAT ends.
    they simply never had the money to optimize the game, game, so the hardcore content never got to work right.
    in the end, the hardcores left too, since the hardcore content really NEEDS to work perfectly
    a good mmo is a like a pyramid...for every one at the top, there are 100s at the bottom
    pretty much like a REAL society

  • Laila Lightness.8742Laila Lightness.8742 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2020

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    I remember back in the 90's when devs just told people to gitgud.

    Those were better days.

    Pandering to casuals just ruins the game for everyone else. Open world PvE is already mind numbingly easy enough as it is.

    and if it isnt, then there wont be millions of casuals to pay for THE GAME. wildstar showed us where THAT ends.
    they simply never had the money to optimize the game, game, so the hardcore content never got to work right.
    in the end, the hardcores left too, since the hardcore content really NEEDS to work perfectly
    a good mmo is a like a pyramid...for every one at the top, there are 100s at the bottom
    pretty much like a REAL society

    A good game is one where you cant lose or have to learn how it works and can reward idling so it can fit all (sarcasm) sure but in society some things require you to learn things and get better at things.