Dear Anet, I love Halloween.. But. - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Dear Anet, I love Halloween.. But.

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  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @troops.8276 said:

    ??
    Requesting for a success reward after 100 failed attempts is asking for anet to kitten it down, since you don't have to successfully complete something to succeed in it.
    I never said this jp was easy, i said it was a challenge. I said hearts are easy, it's objective, not subjective, if anyone in this universe thinks gw2 hearts are hard, then idk what to say. I'ts the most braindead activity i know.

    I never been able to get gold in most HoT adventures, i'm not going to come on here to complain, "OMG i cna't get gold, plz give me pity gold reward"... kitten... that just invalidate other's efforts. It's like throwing a pie in their face.

    I see, I took 'dum down the content'' to mean making the content it self easier as opposed to making getting the reward, subjectively, easier. Doing it 100x is perseverance, which is a good thing that is often rewarded. For example in grind based games like, I don't know, most mmo's? I doubt I could persevere more than a couple of times to say, explain something to a kitten.

    Exactly, it is rewarding persistence, which is the inherent nature of most MMO's. IE: Grind.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Ayumi Spender.1082Ayumi Spender.1082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    @Donari.5237 said:

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:
    Wait. What's the twitch skill? Please tell me what this is. I've beaten it, but if it would make it easier I would actually try to beat it a 2nd time.
    What is a twitch skill?

    I'll take that as a serious question. "Twitch skill" refers to having very fast reflexes, being able to very quickly and accurately do fast-reaction motion and control in games. So OP wasn't saying some people or professions have an in-game skill on their bar that helps, s/he was saying some people are physically better at rapid keyboard/mouse action.

    (I am someone without high twitch skill, though happily it is not due to anything but being older).

    Ah. I'm playing with a controller. I would never beat this with keyboard/mouse. My hands would jolt way too much and screw me up.
    I already screw up a ton with the controller but it would be way worse on mouse.

    HOW?!

    Before, with a horrible "make-shift" action camera until I learn about action camera like 1 or 2 weeks ago.

  • @Danikat.8537 said:
    the main thing is to learn and remember the path

    This is why I've never succeeded. I have never liked puzzles or games that require memorizing an exact route, and especially not in the tower, where I am unlikely to be able to try again immediately after falling (before getting past the first interesting jump). To me, it's about as enjoyable as trying to remember the dates of important Civil War battles; I could manage it; it's just not fun enough (for me) to put in the effort.

    Mind you: I love the two festival puzzles. They are gorgeous and amazingly (and lovingly) crafted works of science, art, and gaming. They just aren't my cup of tea and never will be.

    And I think it's perfectly fine for ANet to gate Festival skins (and chieves) behind the JPs. A little frustrating for me, sure, but there is so much other stuff I can do without worrying about it.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Lunarlife.5128Lunarlife.5128 Member ✭✭✭

    It's not a slow and easy achievement. It is twitch reflexes for a good portion. One of the Anet people said they expected a 5% success rate.

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wonder if they could add a "remote control" feature. Party with a player and let that player do the puzzle for you while you watch.
    They could maybe do a group participation thing. Where only one member in the instance has to complete it so that everyone gets credit, maybe not the chest, but the achievement credit (/shrug). Maybe they add a counter to the failures so that after 10 or x number of failures the Mad King feels bad for you and gives you the achievement. You tried, he belittles you, and then you get credit. I don't know, just throwing around ideas.

    Personally, I love the puzzle, and have finished the AP's for it on 3 accounts. I look forward to it every year. I also don't know if I'll be able to do it in the future due to tremors in my hands. I know how bad it can be for other players. My wife has put many hours in trying to finish it and the Christmas one just so she could say SHE did it. In 5 years, she still has 0 personal successes on them. It's just a holiday festival, so I can see a reason to include everyone somehow.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • Nidome.1365Nidome.1365 Member ✭✭✭

    I've been playing since launch and this JP is the only one that I have never managed to complete it. This is the single most difficult solo activity I have encountered in this game.

  • Since you dont need to do the JP for anything other than the achievement, I dont agree with your request. If you cant complete it then you shouldnt get the achievement, sorry.

  • Kichwas.7152Kichwas.7152 Member ✭✭✭

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:
    You should NEVER use the keyboard to turn. Ever. Only use it for strafing and skills.

    Maybe for you but I would watch the word "never". I have been playing games with a keyboard for, what, about 40 years. That is some pretty strong muscle memory there! To me turning with a mouse is awkward because it goes against decades of how to react. That is like those people saying not to hold the space bar down too long in JPs because you will not go further (even though that is precisely what you do with the raptor jump).

    Its not for me. Rotating with keys will objectively always be slower, just like clicking on skills rather than using keys will also be slower.

    Its not because some activities can be done with a keyboard that it works as the perfect controller for every type of game. Typically moving in a 3d world is more precise with an analogic stick (you can go slower or faster also), fps are commonly better with a mouse (faster reactions), etc.

    If using skills is indeed better with a keyboard, when it comes to movement and especially if you need to react fast, a mouse will be objectively better.

    For you maybe but you said never. I will match 4 decades of muscle memory of doing things one way vs if I tried to do things another way any day. I decided to give ESO a try once. There were some things I liked and other things I hated, but do you want to know what made me give it up? No option to turn with a keyboard. It was dumbing down my reactions.

    But the person is also right: Keyboarding turning is slowed in the system. It reads it over time and animates the turn.
    You can use a mouse to instant face any direction and the animation will put you there as fast as the mouse gets there, but a keyboard takes 'holding down' or even 'tapping' and processes it as a series of hits over a time delay.

    Just say no to butt-flaps.

  • Daffan.8924Daffan.8924 Member ✭✭
    edited October 19, 2017

    If you use keyboard you will never get it.

    It's actually really easy, the second half has zero challenge as the gas stops coming up and you can just stand there and aim your jumps. The first half is the bigger problem, most people fail the big cog jump because they jump too early and don't angle to the lower portion of the cog.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daffan.8924 said:
    If you use keyboard you will never get it.

    It's actually really easy, the second half has zero challenge as the gas stops coming up and you can just stand there and aim your jumps. The first half is the bigger problem, most people fail the big cog jump because they jump too early and don't angle to the lower portion of the cog.

    I typically get overrun by the goop just before the second large Cog.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Deihnyx.6318Deihnyx.6318 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kichwas.7152 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:
    You should NEVER use the keyboard to turn. Ever. Only use it for strafing and skills.

    Maybe for you but I would watch the word "never". I have been playing games with a keyboard for, what, about 40 years. That is some pretty strong muscle memory there! To me turning with a mouse is awkward because it goes against decades of how to react. That is like those people saying not to hold the space bar down too long in JPs because you will not go further (even though that is precisely what you do with the raptor jump).

    Its not for me. Rotating with keys will objectively always be slower, just like clicking on skills rather than using keys will also be slower.

    Its not because some activities can be done with a keyboard that it works as the perfect controller for every type of game. Typically moving in a 3d world is more precise with an analogic stick (you can go slower or faster also), fps are commonly better with a mouse (faster reactions), etc.

    If using skills is indeed better with a keyboard, when it comes to movement and especially if you need to react fast, a mouse will be objectively better.

    For you maybe but you said never. I will match 4 decades of muscle memory of doing things one way vs if I tried to do things another way any day. I decided to give ESO a try once. There were some things I liked and other things I hated, but do you want to know what made me give it up? No option to turn with a keyboard. It was dumbing down my reactions.

    But the person is also right: Keyboarding turning is slowed in the system. It reads it over time and animates the turn.
    You can use a mouse to instant face any direction and the animation will put you there as fast as the mouse gets there, but a keyboard takes 'holding down' or even 'tapping' and processes it as a series of hits over a time delay.

    Yeah. I made that comment to help people cause I see a lot of them still using keyboard for rotation... and it just cant work in a jp where timing also matters.
    It might take a while to learn, but not more than learning to go from clicking skills to using keys for skills.
    Obviously you dont need to do it, it doesn't matter for most content, but if you're going for challenging jp you absolutely need to consider it.

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:
    You should NEVER use the keyboard to turn. Ever. Only use it for strafing and skills.
    Instead control the camera with your mouse (right click) and a left click while controlling the camera will make your character move and turn accordingly to the camera (= much faster)

    If you wonder why you have so many issues with JPs... look no further that is why.

    What the?

    Maybe for you but I would watch the word "never". I have been playing games with a keyboard for, what, about 40 years. That is some pretty strong muscle memory there! To me turning with a mouse is awkward because it goes against decades of how to react. That is like those people saying not to hold the space bar down too long in JPs because you will not go further (even though that is precisely what you do with the raptor jump).

    Its not for me. Rotating with keys will objectively always be slower, just like clicking on skills rather than using keys will also be slower.

    Its not because some activities can be done with a keyboard that it works as the perfect controller for every type of game. Typically moving in a 3d world is more precise with an analogic stick (you can go slower or faster also), fps are commonly better with a mouse (faster reactions), etc.

    If using skills is indeed better with a keyboard, when it comes to movement and especially if you need to react fast, a mouse will be objectively better.

    For you maybe but you said never. I will match 4 decades of muscle memory of doing things one way vs if I tried to do things another way any day. I decided to give ESO a try once. There were some things I liked and other things I hated, but do you want to know what made me give it up? No option to turn with a keyboard. It was dumbing down my reactions.

    I turn with either the mouse or keyboard, have been using both so long I'm quick with each of them. It's funny you mention ESO because I use my keyboard to turn in that game...when I play it on occasion.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I actually don't care about the achieves.

    But I would like to do the puzzle. I would love to buy an instance version of it where I could choose with "death fog" or "without". So that I could practice on my own time. xD.

    It is definitely far too quick for me, I really struggle with aiming the camera the most but I also have horrendous lag from my kitten internet service.

    An instance version would make it easier for me to experience the puzzle, but oh well, it's just another achieve I won't complete in the large list of them. XD
    There's more to the game than AP hunting And I don't care much about the rewards these days either.

    Just move on OP, play the aspects you enjoy.

  • Nightshade.5924Nightshade.5924 Member ✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @troops.8276 said:

    @Samnang.1879 said:
    Can ppl pls stop complaining about the difficulty of things in this game???
    NOTHING in the game is that hard (save from getting god of pvp title).
    90% of guild wars 2 content is easy and made for casuals, hearts, map events, low level fractals, stories. this jp is something that comes once every year, let the ppl who enjoy the challenge have their enjoyment of the challenge instead of making anet dum down all the content cuz u can't do it. its not fair and unreasonable.

    I think OP was 'complaining' about their own inability and not asking for it too be 'dumbed down'. Rather just wanting a 'different' way to complete it.

    Something may be easy for you but that doesn't mean its easy for everyone. Just like how it was easy for me to understand what the OP actually meant. ;)

    Some things may be relatively easy for most people but may take time and time is a commodity that many don't have much of. Or as the 'no lifers' put it 'casual'.

    This was my point, it also stonewalls progress in many other activities, like the book, and the boots. If the clock tower was standalone, I'd be more then happy to avoid it and let people farm it for bags and whatever. But, since it's tied to a few other items, I don't think it's asking to much, to give a "You gave it your best" completion, after 100 tries.

    @Loboling.5293 said:
    I'm fine with this. I can't remember how many tries it took me. I don't think I ever would've gotten it if not for watching other people beat it, as I tried to keep up with them. It was one of the best feelings I had when I finally beat it, and now every year I do it still just to help others get up.

    However, if someone wants to avoid that high you get when you finally beat it, and you've been trying 100 times. I say, why not give it to you. You're missing one fun feeling when you beat it on your own.

    Anyway, after 100 times if you haven't made any real progress, just give them the achievement. My opinion.

    I agree, there should be some kind of maybe checkpoint, that have to reach for it to count.. like say.. you need to at least jump onto the platform that comes off the tower wall at the start. I know I fail getting past that point a lot. But getting to it would remove the AFK players at least.

    This is the Winter's Presence scenario all over again. What really kills me is all the people who are "It's easy, anyone can do it". I wish I could take these people and subject them to a series of REAL world trials of skill. Say shooting, car racing, billiards, orienteering, baseball, basketball, and a math test. And then I wish I could GRADE them on their success or lack thereof in ALL of those skills TOGETHER, and then say... you LOST your completion of the Clock Tower and NEVER can have it because you're not good enough in all these skills.

    Because that is what ANet is doing by gating an armor piece behind this jumping puzzle. Jumping is a skill. Making it a timed event makes it DIFFICULT SKILL. VERY. Anyone who says otherwise is likely under 20 years old or possibly jumped up on illegal substances.
    Personally, after the FIRST TWO TRIES at the CT, I just walked away. That was three, four years ago. I think I accidentally went in one other time. That's it. I play games to have fun, blow up/maim/kill mobs, to decompress and enjoy myself. I don't enjoy JP's, never have, NEVER will, and to have ANY content whatsoever gated behind a JP, especially a JP that is CLEARLY designed for very good to superior hand to eye co-ordination and reflexes is TOTALLY INSULTING TO ME PERSONALLY.

    Anet needs to STOP insulting its customers in this fashion. I truly hope that THIS wintersday that Anet has come up with an ALTERNATE METHOD to gain the step currently covered by the WD JP. And I also hope that the next time that Anet considers gating something behind a uber crazy insane difficult JP, that they PROVIDE another pathway that is REASONALBE... and I also hope that they observe the stats on how many people AVOID the JP. Might give us some real numbers to talk about.
    Nuff said.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    "possibly jumped up on illegal substances."

    Going a bit far there?
    I get frustration. .i very likely will be unable to complete this jp but to suggest people are using psychoactive substances..is quite rude.

    And the armour isn't gated. You can buy a recipe to craft it.

    So, move on. Spend your time farming instead and craft it.

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    I somewhat agree.

    I'd just like this clock tower to be single player instanced to get rid of the wait time. If I can't complete a hard JP puzzle even with rapid spawning trying over and over.. then that is on me. I just don't want the reason to be I'm failing due to frustration of standing around over half the time. I would likely pay to have this completed if by all other means, couldn't do it before the event was gone.

  • @Nightshade.5924 said:

    This is the Winter's Presence scenario all over again. What really kills me is all the people who are "It's easy, anyone can do it". I wish I could take these people and subject them to a series of REAL world trials of skill. Say shooting, car racing, billiards, orienteering, baseball, basketball, and a math test. And then I wish I could GRADE them on their success or lack thereof in ALL of those skills TOGETHER, and then say... you LOST your completion of the Clock Tower and NEVER can have it because you're not good enough in all these skills.

    Because that is what ANet is doing by gating an armor piece behind this jumping puzzle. Jumping is a skill. Making it a timed event makes it DIFFICULT SKILL. VERY. Anyone who says otherwise is likely under 20 years old or possibly jumped up on illegal substances.
    Personally, after the FIRST TWO TRIES at the CT, I just walked away. That was three, four years ago. I think I accidentally went in one other time. That's it. I play games to have fun, blow up/maim/kill mobs, to decompress and enjoy myself. I don't enjoy JP's, never have, NEVER will, and to have ANY content whatsoever gated behind a JP, especially a JP that is CLEARLY designed for very good to superior hand to eye co-ordination and reflexes is TOTALLY INSULTING TO ME PERSONALLY.

    Anet needs to STOP insulting its customers in this fashion. I truly hope that THIS wintersday that Anet has come up with an ALTERNATE METHOD to gain the step currently covered by the WD JP. And I also hope that the next time that Anet considers gating something behind a uber crazy insane difficult JP, that they PROVIDE another pathway that is REASONALBE... and I also hope that they observe the stats on how many people AVOID the JP. Might give us some real numbers to talk about.
    Nuff said.

    You can craft the armor with a recipie you can buy. You dont need to do the JP to get it, its not gated.

  • Deihnyx.6318Deihnyx.6318 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nightshade.5924 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @troops.8276 said:

    @Samnang.1879 said:
    Can ppl pls stop complaining about the difficulty of things in this game???
    NOTHING in the game is that hard (save from getting god of pvp title).
    90% of guild wars 2 content is easy and made for casuals, hearts, map events, low level fractals, stories. this jp is something that comes once every year, let the ppl who enjoy the challenge have their enjoyment of the challenge instead of making anet dum down all the content cuz u can't do it. its not fair and unreasonable.

    I think OP was 'complaining' about their own inability and not asking for it too be 'dumbed down'. Rather just wanting a 'different' way to complete it.

    Something may be easy for you but that doesn't mean its easy for everyone. Just like how it was easy for me to understand what the OP actually meant. ;)

    Some things may be relatively easy for most people but may take time and time is a commodity that many don't have much of. Or as the 'no lifers' put it 'casual'.

    This was my point, it also stonewalls progress in many other activities, like the book, and the boots. If the clock tower was standalone, I'd be more then happy to avoid it and let people farm it for bags and whatever. But, since it's tied to a few other items, I don't think it's asking to much, to give a "You gave it your best" completion, after 100 tries.

    @Loboling.5293 said:
    I'm fine with this. I can't remember how many tries it took me. I don't think I ever would've gotten it if not for watching other people beat it, as I tried to keep up with them. It was one of the best feelings I had when I finally beat it, and now every year I do it still just to help others get up.

    However, if someone wants to avoid that high you get when you finally beat it, and you've been trying 100 times. I say, why not give it to you. You're missing one fun feeling when you beat it on your own.

    Anyway, after 100 times if you haven't made any real progress, just give them the achievement. My opinion.

    I agree, there should be some kind of maybe checkpoint, that have to reach for it to count.. like say.. you need to at least jump onto the platform that comes off the tower wall at the start. I know I fail getting past that point a lot. But getting to it would remove the AFK players at least.

    This is the Winter's Presence scenario all over again. What really kills me is all the people who are "It's easy, anyone can do it". I wish I could take these people and subject them to a series of REAL world trials of skill. Say shooting, car racing, billiards, orienteering, baseball, basketball, and a math test. And then I wish I could GRADE them on their success or lack thereof in ALL of those skills TOGETHER, and then say... you LOST your completion of the Clock Tower and NEVER can have it because you're not good enough in all these skills.

    Because that is what ANet is doing by gating an armor piece behind this jumping puzzle. Jumping is a skill. Making it a timed event makes it DIFFICULT SKILL. VERY. Anyone who says otherwise is likely under 20 years old or possibly jumped up on illegal substances.
    Personally, after the FIRST TWO TRIES at the CT, I just walked away. That was three, four years ago. I think I accidentally went in one other time. That's it. I play games to have fun, blow up/maim/kill mobs, to decompress and enjoy myself. I don't enjoy JP's, never have, NEVER will, and to have ANY content whatsoever gated behind a JP, especially a JP that is CLEARLY designed for very good to superior hand to eye co-ordination and reflexes is TOTALLY INSULTING TO ME PERSONALLY.

    Anet needs to STOP insulting its customers in this fashion. I truly hope that THIS wintersday that Anet has come up with an ALTERNATE METHOD to gain the step currently covered by the WD JP. And I also hope that the next time that Anet considers gating something behind a uber crazy insane difficult JP, that they PROVIDE another pathway that is REASONALBE... and I also hope that they observe the stats on how many people AVOID the JP. Might give us some real numbers to talk about.
    Nuff said.

    Wow... I find it easy and a matter of muscle memory (aka yeah, anyone can do it) so I'm a kid or I take drugs?
    I can't even imagine what you think of raids lol.

    I think you're the one insulting players who like trial and error challenges. Anet is just providing some very limited content that is based around that. The Clock Tower is one of them and so is trial and tribulations from SAB. There's still (Thanks gods) a playerbase for that kind of content, or games like Dark Souls, Binding of Isaac, Risk of Rain, whatever, would not be critical successes.

    It's your right not to enjoy something. But first, saying we're all on drugs for finding it easy after having tried only TWO TIMES is ridiculous, and second, it was said before your post that there is no piece of armor gated behind that content. You're ranting and attacking players over a bunch of AP points that you do not deserve, especially if you only tried twice only.
    Even if that armor was still gated behind that content, that still wouldn't be an excuse to attack players, and attack anet, for proposing that kind of content. Legendary armors are gated behind raids, weapons set are gated behind SAB. If you had it your way everything should be given regardless of skill and perseverance and that is definitely NOT good for any game.

    It was challenging for me at first, I tried for hours the first year and I finally got it, and I will confirm what everyone else said, it's more memory muscle than anything, it's absolutely FINE if you don't want to spend time on that but stop asking for nerf just because you don't want to do that.
    I don't care what real skills you have irl, it doesn't matter, it's a video game, you're tested on the mechanics of that video game, and you're not automatically right or legitimate because you're having issues beating some content. This kind of behavior actually IS typical of this new generation of gamers that blame a game for offering challenge, something no older gamer who played during the golden age of video games would ever do.

    And that is why I was against the Eater of Soul nerf. The more you nerf a game, the more people want to keep nerfing it.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:
    Wow... I find it easy and a matter of muscle memory (aka yeah, anyone can do it) so I'm a kid or I take drugs?

    Well, I can't say if you are child or not, but the dismissive "aka: yeah anyone can do it" is a very childish style of dismissive statement. No, just because you have good muscle memory, does not mean anyone can do it, it means nothing more then it was easy for you This has no bearing on how hard or easy it may be for anyone else. I used to farm, (Well Homestead, bu for sake of brevity, we will call it farming) the work I thought was easy often broke city/suburban kids, their hands blistered, and because I was immature at the time, I would laugh at them and tell them that they just need to toughen up, it was easy work. Looking back, I was a immature jerk to talk to people that.. funny how you remind me so much of how I used to be.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zombyturtle.5980 said:

    You can craft the armor with a recipie you can buy. You dont need to do the JP to get it, its not gated.

    Be that as it may, how does it diminish you if I get some token completion in a Holiday festival in a game? Is your ego that fragile that it would hurt you in some way to allow people to have their paltry rewards and complete objectives?

    Are we really going to be that petty over a Holiday event?

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Deihnyx.6318Deihnyx.6318 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:
    Wow... I find it easy and a matter of muscle memory (aka yeah, anyone can do it) so I'm a kid or I take drugs?

    Well, I can't say if you are child or not, but the dismissive "aka: yeah anyone can do it" is a very childish style of dismissive statement. No, just because you have good muscle memory, does not mean anyone can do it, it means nothing more then it was easy for you This has no bearing on how hard or easy it may be for anyone else. I used to farm, he work I thought was easy often broke city kids, their hands blistered, and because I was immature at the time, I would laugh at them and tell them that they just need to toughen up, it was easy work.

    Yah.. while I may noting about your physical age, there is nothing mature in your response.

    You aren't explaining how the statement is not true, you're just saying that some people will have a hard time.
    Yes, we agree on that. It's hard for some people. Here's the thing: It doesn't make the statement "anyone can do it" any less true.

    Note that I haven't said "It's easy". In fact not many people said that in this thread. I even said it's quite challenging and I had to spend hours on it before I finally consider it easy (to me, because that's what "I find it easy"......)

    My issue is when people (like you, apparently) are making shortcuts such as "anyone can do it" = it should be easily achievable for everyone.
    No, I don't agree, will never agree, and I find it hilarious to be called out for that, when entire generations of games were built to offer challenges based around different skills.

    But sure, feel free to blame it on the game, or the maturity of some players or else.

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Is your ego that fragile that it would hurt you in some way to allow people to have their paltry rewards and complete objectives?

    It just destroys the notion of "achievement".
    And again, people ask for nerfing story, then want to ask events that just give AP points, then they're gonna want to nerf meta events (KotJ was already nerfed) then raids, and the funny thing is that they STILL think they got the rightfulness on their side and other players are immature for simply LIKING challenge and having fun beating them.
    You think it's about ego? Hell yeah it is. And you know what? Same reason as to why you want these rewards too. It's your ego. Except your ego is trying to dictate how we as players who enjoy that level of content should behave, while I have no problem if you don't like the content I enjoy.

  • As someone who never conpleted this since launch... other than AP, is there any exclusive gear/rng to this event?

    Like batwings in ascent.

    Why do people care so much?

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Anyway... so Anet.. any chance you could put in something that after a set number of tries.. you just a "you did your best" or maybe make that it's own thing, after 100 fails, you get a different but equal reward. But make it so you can only get one or the other. Either you get "You did it" or you get "You tried your best"

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Does the incomplete stop progress of anything else? If not, leave it alone. If so, try this:

    1. Watch videos of others doing it until a path appears doable to you.
    2. Try out that EXACT path-- everything they skip, everything they double hop on etc...
    3. Repeat it-- exactly the same way-- at least a few times a day, but STOP when you get super frustrated and start missing the easy stuff.

    In time you will see yourself getting further and further, as if you are in autopilot and you won't even have to think/stress.

    Also note: Once you get past the jump down part, you have more time to relax and take your time-- AND the jumps get a lot easier.

    The coolest thing is that once you start getting up there you will be able to repeat this year and get it done, easily, next year.

  • I JUST WANNA KNOW WHY I HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE ACID TO CATCH UP IN THE BEGINNING WHEN I CAN OUT RUN IT FROM THE START AND MAKE IT A BIT EASIER.

  • Question. If you go to starbucks RIGHT NOW and ask for the Exclusice Black Apron 2009 3-region blend(only available in 1/2lb)...

    What do you think they will say?

    What will you say? "IM A CUSTOMER AND I DEMMAND SASSISFAXSHION!!!!!"

    NICE TRY NO BEANS FOR YOU

    YOU
    HAD
    TO
    BE
    THERE

  • Deihnyx.6318Deihnyx.6318 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:
    Wow... I find it easy and a matter of muscle memory (aka yeah, anyone can do it) so I'm a kid or I take drugs?

    Well, I can't say if you are child or not, but the dismissive "aka: yeah anyone can do it" is a very childish style of dismissive statement. No, just because you have good muscle memory, does not mean anyone can do it, it means nothing more then it was easy for you This has no bearing on how hard or easy it may be for anyone else. I used to farm, he work I thought was easy often broke city kids, their hands blistered, and because I was immature at the time, I would laugh at them and tell them that they just need to toughen up, it was easy work.

    Yah.. while I may noting about your physical age, there is nothing mature in your response.

    You aren't explaining how the statement is not true, you're just saying that some people will have a hard time.
    Yes, we agree on that. It's hard for some people. Here's the thing: It doesn't make the statement "anyone can do it" any less true.

    No.. I am saying, regardless if you believe this or not .. some people don't, nor will they ever have the manual dexterity and muscle memory to do these kinds of jump puzzles.

    I get the need to parade your feelings of being better then other people around in a game, egotism, vanity, and all that jazz, that is what raids are for, for you all to go do something none of us casuals care about, where you stroke your ego how good you are at it. But, no matter what you may think, you are very wrong about anyone being able to do something.

    Yes, you absolutely get it since it's the very reason you made this thread. Congrats you got the point of any MMO.
    Why did you make this thread if not for your own ego?

    Actually I just wanted to complete the book, because I thought it looked cool, and I thought I needed to do the JP to get it done. Since I don't.. it's not such an issue,

    Now answer me this, But, how does me getting something in game that will never affect you.. somehow affect you?

    An interesting question.
    To me directly? Absolutely nothing.
    To the game? A lot.

    Because if there'd be an easy way for everything, if all the skins could be "cheesed", then people who did it legit would lose the prestige value of their "work" (which you consider vanity), skins would lose their value (if everyone has it, it has no value), titles like no more heroes wouldn't mean anything anymore, etc.
    I personally HATE grinding, I hate things gated being timegates and goldsinks that forces me to redo the same events 250 times. But I understand that for some players (who don't like hard content) it's a good way of achieving something and getting recognition from it (through legendary weapons). I wouldn't want to nerf their obtention even though I hate it.
    You will kill an MMO if you keep giving away everything easily.

    Like I can guarantee you that if you ever ask for w1/2 trib mode of SAB to give out their skins "for free", you're gonna face the same resistance, because there are people who went through all of that, "worked" to that objective and like the recognition from the game that they finished it. It's not necessarily about bragging to other players, it's personal fulfillment.

    You seem to always think that everything we as players who like challenge to is to "show off", if that was the case solo games wouldn't have achievements.
    It is as much our right to enjoy that type of content as it that it is yours to enjoy the casual content. It's a balance, you can't have everything go casual just like we can't have everything be challenging.

  • @DebraKadabra.5278 said:
    Honestly, with how unused to Action Cam that I am it would make me fall more and get stuck in the green goo more.

    Most of us who were around for 1st year have done Clock Tower without Action Cam :)

    Vàsher (Grd), Bondsmith Yharnam (Eng), Mistress Glaive (War), Hasla the Huntress (Rng), Seaguard Hala (Mes)
    Northerner @ Dragon Season (DS) | Winter's Talon Reborn (WT) | The Seaguard (SG)
    Seafarer's Rest (SFR) since launch!

  • I think in 5 years I've finished it 3 times

  • @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @Nightshade.5924 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @troops.8276 said:

    @Samnang.1879 said:
    Can ppl pls stop complaining about the difficulty of things in this game???
    NOTHING in the game is that hard (save from getting god of pvp title).
    90% of guild wars 2 content is easy and made for casuals, hearts, map events, low level fractals, stories. this jp is something that comes once every year, let the ppl who enjoy the challenge have their enjoyment of the challenge instead of making anet dum down all the content cuz u can't do it. its not fair and unreasonable.

    I think OP was 'complaining' about their own inability and not asking for it too be 'dumbed down'. Rather just wanting a 'different' way to complete it.

    Something may be easy for you but that doesn't mean its easy for everyone. Just like how it was easy for me to understand what the OP actually meant. ;)

    Some things may be relatively easy for most people but may take time and time is a commodity that many don't have much of. Or as the 'no lifers' put it 'casual'.

    This was my point, it also stonewalls progress in many other activities, like the book, and the boots. If the clock tower was standalone, I'd be more then happy to avoid it and let people farm it for bags and whatever. But, since it's tied to a few other items, I don't think it's asking to much, to give a "You gave it your best" completion, after 100 tries.

    @Loboling.5293 said:
    I'm fine with this. I can't remember how many tries it took me. I don't think I ever would've gotten it if not for watching other people beat it, as I tried to keep up with them. It was one of the best feelings I had when I finally beat it, and now every year I do it still just to help others get up.

    However, if someone wants to avoid that high you get when you finally beat it, and you've been trying 100 times. I say, why not give it to you. You're missing one fun feeling when you beat it on your own.

    Anyway, after 100 times if you haven't made any real progress, just give them the achievement. My opinion.

    I agree, there should be some kind of maybe checkpoint, that have to reach for it to count.. like say.. you need to at least jump onto the platform that comes off the tower wall at the start. I know I fail getting past that point a lot. But getting to it would remove the AFK players at least.

    This is the Winter's Presence scenario all over again. What really kills me is all the people who are "It's easy, anyone can do it". I wish I could take these people and subject them to a series of REAL world trials of skill. Say shooting, car racing, billiards, orienteering, baseball, basketball, and a math test. And then I wish I could GRADE them on their success or lack thereof in ALL of those skills TOGETHER, and then say... you LOST your completion of the Clock Tower and NEVER can have it because you're not good enough in all these skills.

    Because that is what ANet is doing by gating an armor piece behind this jumping puzzle. Jumping is a skill. Making it a timed event makes it DIFFICULT SKILL. VERY. Anyone who says otherwise is likely under 20 years old or possibly jumped up on illegal substances.
    Personally, after the FIRST TWO TRIES at the CT, I just walked away. That was three, four years ago. I think I accidentally went in one other time. That's it. I play games to have fun, blow up/maim/kill mobs, to decompress and enjoy myself. I don't enjoy JP's, never have, NEVER will, and to have ANY content whatsoever gated behind a JP, especially a JP that is CLEARLY designed for very good to superior hand to eye co-ordination and reflexes is TOTALLY INSULTING TO ME PERSONALLY.

    Anet needs to STOP insulting its customers in this fashion. I truly hope that THIS wintersday that Anet has come up with an ALTERNATE METHOD to gain the step currently covered by the WD JP. And I also hope that the next time that Anet considers gating something behind a uber crazy insane difficult JP, that they PROVIDE another pathway that is REASONALBE... and I also hope that they observe the stats on how many people AVOID the JP. Might give us some real numbers to talk about.
    Nuff said.

    Wow... I find it easy and a matter of muscle memory (aka yeah, anyone can do it) so I'm a kid or I take drugs?
    I can't even imagine what you think of raids lol.

    I think you're the one insulting players who like trial and error challenges. Anet is just providing some very limited content that is based around that. The Clock Tower is one of them and so is trial and tribulations from SAB. There's still (Thanks gods) a playerbase for that kind of content, or games like Dark Souls, Binding of Isaac, Risk of Rain, whatever, would not be critical successes.

    It was challenging for me at first, I tried for hours the first year and I finally got it, and I will confirm what everyone else said, it's more memory muscle than anything, it's absolutely FINE if you don't want to spend time on that but stop asking for nerf just because you don't want to do that.
    I don't care what real skills you have irl, it doesn't matter, it's a video game, you're tested on the mechanics of that video game, and you're not automatically right or legitimate because you're having issues beating some content. This kind of behavior actually IS typical of this new generation of gamers that blame a game for offering challenge, something no older gamer who played during the golden age of video games would ever do.

    And that is why I was against the Eater of Soul nerf. The more you nerf a game, the more people want to keep nerfing it.

    "I tried for hours...." kinda says it all for me. I'll look into the armor thing, and I'll see just how easy or not it is to craft it. Given the trend displayed in Ascended crafting, I'm not exactly hopeful at this moment. And if you're insulted... that's too bad. Join the club, as I am insulted every time I contemplate having to do a JP for ANYTHING. A timed JP is NOT a trial and error puzzle. It is an exercise in high end reflexes, timing, and memory, both muscle and cognitive. Trial and error implies that you HAVE TIME to CONSIDER and ANALYZE the environment, and the TIME to form a STRATEGY and RESPONSE.
    And I AM not asking for a nerf... I want an ALTERNATE method, like say complete x pvp games, or spend x time in wvw, something like that.... OR a version of the puzzle that doesn't sink into the death goo. NON timed, NON sinking, NON insane, in other words. Take away any real rewards if you want, just give me credit for completion, that'd be fine.
    I've expressed a similar sentiment two years running in regards to the Winters Day JP, and still remain hopeful that the devs WILL eventually see reason. OH, and BTW.. the WD JP is WHY once I DID my two tries, I quit. I had tried the WD the previous December, and just about threw my laptop through a wall after about three hours of continually dying and getting nowhere. Two tries was all it took for me to see that the CT would be more of the same. The bottom line is... don't put ANYTHING, achievement points, gold, rewards, ANYTHING, behind something that CANNOT BE DONE BY EVERYONE. And I'd have to say that it's clear that TIMED JP's fall into that category. Last thing... I AM an older gamer and NO, I don't do raids, as a matter of fact. And that's part of my problem DOING this sort of puzzle. My reflexes simply are not up to it.

  • @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:
    Wow... I find it easy and a matter of muscle memory (aka yeah, anyone can do it) so I'm a kid or I take drugs?

    Well, I can't say if you are child or not, but the dismissive "aka: yeah anyone can do it" is a very childish style of dismissive statement. No, just because you have good muscle memory, does not mean anyone can do it, it means nothing more then it was easy for you This has no bearing on how hard or easy it may be for anyone else. I used to farm, he work I thought was easy often broke city kids, their hands blistered, and because I was immature at the time, I would laugh at them and tell them that they just need to toughen up, it was easy work.

    Yah.. while I may noting about your physical age, there is nothing mature in your response.

    You aren't explaining how the statement is not true, you're just saying that some people will have a hard time.
    Yes, we agree on that. It's hard for some people. Here's the thing: It doesn't make the statement "anyone can do it" any less true.

    No.. I am saying, regardless if you believe this or not .. some people don't, nor will they ever have the manual dexterity and muscle memory to do these kinds of jump puzzles.

    I get the need to parade your feelings of being better then other people around in a game, egotism, vanity, and all that jazz, that is what raids are for, for you all to go do something none of us casuals care about, where you stroke your ego how good you are at it. But, no matter what you may think, you are very wrong about anyone being able to do something.

    Yes, you absolutely get it since it's the very reason you made this thread. Congrats you got the point of any MMO.
    Why did you make this thread if not for your own ego?

    Actually I just wanted to complete the book, because I thought it looked cool, and I thought I needed to do the JP to get it done. Since I don't.. it's not such an issue,

    Now answer me this, But, how does me getting something in game that will never affect you.. somehow affect you?

    Ego ego ego

    Yes, you play a game for yourself, I hardly see why people use it as an argument...

    Im with you in this argument

  • Samnang.1879Samnang.1879 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @troops.8276 said:

    ??
    Requesting for a success reward after 100 failed attempts is asking for anet to kitten it down, since you don't have to successfully complete something to succeed in it.
    I never said this jp was easy, i said it was a challenge. I said hearts are easy, it's objective, not subjective, if anyone in this universe thinks gw2 hearts are hard, then idk what to say. I'ts the most braindead activity i know.

    I never been able to get gold in most HoT adventures, i'm not going to come on here to complain, "OMG i cna't get gold, plz give me pity gold reward"... kitten... that just invalidate other's efforts. It's like throwing a pie in their face.

    I see, I took 'dum down the content'' to mean making the content it self easier as opposed to making getting the reward, subjectively, easier. Doing it 100x is perseverance, which is a good thing that is often rewarded. For example in grind based games like, I don't know, most mmo's? I doubt I could persevere more than a couple of times to say, explain something to a kitten.

    Oh, you also said 90% of the game was easy not just hearts amongst other things but I'll say no more on it ;)

    Yeah, i stand by what i said, 90% of the game is easy, proceeded by examples, such as hearts, personal stories, world events, world bosses... literally i afk and press 1 while watching netflix when doing world bosses and never die. It don't get easier than that.

    And no, hard content isn't only just for no-lifers, when i was working full time, i managed to get raid w4 challenge mote title. i dedicated 5 hours each day for 7 days to get the title. do i expect others to have this dedication? no. but if u dont' put in the effort/dedication, then you dont deserve the reward.

    just like a group of people want easy content, there are groups that want hard content. there are only few hard content in the game (raids, 99cm 100cm fractals, the jp), yet everyday the forum gets complain about ppl wanting them to be easier. Why?

    Do i support anet making easier versions of those things? Yes. Do i want anet to modify the hard content, absolutely NO. hard content is what makes some ppl want to play the game.

    Anet: give us in-game customizable human NPC companion please
    Please, no more balance changes, or at least reset our gears so we don't have to waste gold changing gears every time.
    Please have option to not receive bloodstone dusts, empyreal fragments, dragonite etc

  • Deihnyx.6318Deihnyx.6318 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    @Nightshade.5924 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @Nightshade.5924 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @troops.8276 said:

    @Samnang.1879 said:
    Can ppl pls stop complaining about the difficulty of things in this game???
    NOTHING in the game is that hard (save from getting god of pvp title).
    90% of guild wars 2 content is easy and made for casuals, hearts, map events, low level fractals, stories. this jp is something that comes once every year, let the ppl who enjoy the challenge have their enjoyment of the challenge instead of making anet dum down all the content cuz u can't do it. its not fair and unreasonable.

    I think OP was 'complaining' about their own inability and not asking for it too be 'dumbed down'. Rather just wanting a 'different' way to complete it.

    Something may be easy for you but that doesn't mean its easy for everyone. Just like how it was easy for me to understand what the OP actually meant. ;)

    Some things may be relatively easy for most people but may take time and time is a commodity that many don't have much of. Or as the 'no lifers' put it 'casual'.

    This was my point, it also stonewalls progress in many other activities, like the book, and the boots. If the clock tower was standalone, I'd be more then happy to avoid it and let people farm it for bags and whatever. But, since it's tied to a few other items, I don't think it's asking to much, to give a "You gave it your best" completion, after 100 tries.

    @Loboling.5293 said:
    I'm fine with this. I can't remember how many tries it took me. I don't think I ever would've gotten it if not for watching other people beat it, as I tried to keep up with them. It was one of the best feelings I had when I finally beat it, and now every year I do it still just to help others get up.

    However, if someone wants to avoid that high you get when you finally beat it, and you've been trying 100 times. I say, why not give it to you. You're missing one fun feeling when you beat it on your own.

    Anyway, after 100 times if you haven't made any real progress, just give them the achievement. My opinion.

    I agree, there should be some kind of maybe checkpoint, that have to reach for it to count.. like say.. you need to at least jump onto the platform that comes off the tower wall at the start. I know I fail getting past that point a lot. But getting to it would remove the AFK players at least.

    This is the Winter's Presence scenario all over again. What really kills me is all the people who are "It's easy, anyone can do it". I wish I could take these people and subject them to a series of REAL world trials of skill. Say shooting, car racing, billiards, orienteering, baseball, basketball, and a math test. And then I wish I could GRADE them on their success or lack thereof in ALL of those skills TOGETHER, and then say... you LOST your completion of the Clock Tower and NEVER can have it because you're not good enough in all these skills.

    Because that is what ANet is doing by gating an armor piece behind this jumping puzzle. Jumping is a skill. Making it a timed event makes it DIFFICULT SKILL. VERY. Anyone who says otherwise is likely under 20 years old or possibly jumped up on illegal substances.
    Personally, after the FIRST TWO TRIES at the CT, I just walked away. That was three, four years ago. I think I accidentally went in one other time. That's it. I play games to have fun, blow up/maim/kill mobs, to decompress and enjoy myself. I don't enjoy JP's, never have, NEVER will, and to have ANY content whatsoever gated behind a JP, especially a JP that is CLEARLY designed for very good to superior hand to eye co-ordination and reflexes is TOTALLY INSULTING TO ME PERSONALLY.

    Anet needs to STOP insulting its customers in this fashion. I truly hope that THIS wintersday that Anet has come up with an ALTERNATE METHOD to gain the step currently covered by the WD JP. And I also hope that the next time that Anet considers gating something behind a uber crazy insane difficult JP, that they PROVIDE another pathway that is REASONALBE... and I also hope that they observe the stats on how many people AVOID the JP. Might give us some real numbers to talk about.
    Nuff said.

    Wow... I find it easy and a matter of muscle memory (aka yeah, anyone can do it) so I'm a kid or I take drugs?
    I can't even imagine what you think of raids lol.

    I think you're the one insulting players who like trial and error challenges. Anet is just providing some very limited content that is based around that. The Clock Tower is one of them and so is trial and tribulations from SAB. There's still (Thanks gods) a playerbase for that kind of content, or games like Dark Souls, Binding of Isaac, Risk of Rain, whatever, would not be critical successes.

    It was challenging for me at first, I tried for hours the first year and I finally got it, and I will confirm what everyone else said, it's more memory muscle than anything, it's absolutely FINE if you don't want to spend time on that but stop asking for nerf just because you don't want to do that.
    I don't care what real skills you have irl, it doesn't matter, it's a video game, you're tested on the mechanics of that video game, and you're not automatically right or legitimate because you're having issues beating some content. This kind of behavior actually IS typical of this new generation of gamers that blame a game for offering challenge, something no older gamer who played during the golden age of video games would ever do.

    And that is why I was against the Eater of Soul nerf. The more you nerf a game, the more people want to keep nerfing it.

    "I tried for hours...." kinda says it all for me. I'll look into the armor thing, and I'll see just how easy or not it is to craft it. Given the trend displayed in Ascended crafting, I'm not exactly hopeful at this moment. And if you're insulted... that's too bad. Join the club, as I am insulted every time I contemplate having to do a JP for ANYTHING. A timed JP is NOT a trial and error puzzle. It is an exercise in high end reflexes, timing, and memory, both muscle and cognitive. Trial and error implies that you HAVE TIME to CONSIDER and ANALYZE the environment, and the TIME to form a STRATEGY and RESPONSE.
    And I AM not asking for a nerf... I want an ALTERNATE method, like say complete x pvp games, or spend x time in wvw, something like that.... OR a version of the puzzle that doesn't sink into the death goo. NON timed, NON sinking, NON insane, in other words. Take away any real rewards if you want, just give me credit for completion, that'd be fine.
    I've expressed a similar sentiment two years running in regards to the Winters Day JP, and still remain hopeful that the devs WILL eventually see reason. OH, and BTW.. the WD JP is WHY once I DID my two tries, I quit. I had tried the WD the previous December, and just about threw my laptop through a wall after about three hours of continually dying and getting nowhere. Two tries was all it took for me to see that the CT would be more of the same. The bottom line is... don't put ANYTHING, achievement points, gold, rewards, ANYTHING, behind something that CANNOT BE DONE BY EVERYONE. And I'd have to say that it's clear that TIMED JP's fall into that category. Last thing... I AM an older gamer and NO, I don't do raids, as a matter of fact. And that's part of my problem DOING this sort of puzzle. My reflexes simply are not up to it.

    There's a difference between feeling "frustrated" by content that you can't do and insulting players, like you did. One is taking a game too seriously, the other is attacking players not even because they were mean to you or anything but simply because they've done it, and are discussing how they're doing it with much more ease now that they assimilated how to do it.
    The clock tower is 100% trial and error. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that, and it's backed by a lot of people here who've actually done it more than 2 times.

    This is non sense to give you "completion" credit for something you haven't completed. Like... at all. I can discuss the argument that some stuff (like armor) is gated behind content that may seem challenging (but it's not gated since you can craft it), I don't have a problem with an easier version like SAB does, however if you haven't completed the "normal" tower, you haven't completed it.

    About your last paragraph... seriously if you want everything to be doable by everyone go play a telltale game that gives achievements for everyone. Seriously, this is a MMO, there is casual stuff, there is grind stuff, there is challenging stuff. Play what you like to play in this game and accept the fact that there's stuff in this game that isn't for you. AP, gold, rewards are gated behind everything and every mode.
    Unless you play WvW, PVP, PVE and Raids, you're gonna miss some of them, and that shows some self entitlement to want to remove some rewards just because you can't get rank 2000 in wvw, just because you can't win a pvp tournament, just because you can't finish all raids or just because you can't do a jumping puzzle!
    Oh and they should remove prenium skins I guess, since not everyone can farm the gold and not everyone has a heavy credit card?

    Like seriously please realize how you would be impacting others by getting things done your way. Nobody can get everything, half of the fun is the journey to get there.

  • Shard.4791Shard.4791 Member ✭✭✭

    I completed the JP with keyboard turning as a challenge inspired by this thread. It can be done but it's slower and less forgiving. Learning a new control system probably helps in this JP.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Im not trying to sound demeaning here, but you don't /have/ to beat the clocktower. If you want/need the lunatic armor piece, you can buy the recipe for 1 candy corn cob (2 fornthe chest piece recipe)

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    @UrMom.4205 said:
    Curious, the JP is just 10 ap, does it really matter that much? Just skip it and do the other ones.

    There's also the repeatable achi that adds more ap on top of it. And the boots block a different collection.

    Additionally, there's the waiting for everyone that makes repeating it (to learn the path) really irritating. And for me it requires a lot of repeats (i was never good with timed JPs, even with slower ones, and that one is definitely way too fast for me).
    Maybe it would have been better if i could practice it in a solo instance, at my own pace, not having to do it at a pace decided by several other people.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nightshade.5924 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @Nightshade.5924 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @troops.8276 said:

    @Samnang.1879 said:
    Can ppl pls stop complaining about the difficulty of things in this game???
    NOTHING in the game is that hard (save from getting god of pvp title).
    90% of guild wars 2 content is easy and made for casuals, hearts, map events, low level fractals, stories. this jp is something that comes once every year, let the ppl who enjoy the challenge have their enjoyment of the challenge instead of making anet dum down all the content cuz u can't do it. its not fair and unreasonable.

    I think OP was 'complaining' about their own inability and not asking for it too be 'dumbed down'. Rather just wanting a 'different' way to complete it.

    Something may be easy for you but that doesn't mean its easy for everyone. Just like how it was easy for me to understand what the OP actually meant. ;)

    Some things may be relatively easy for most people but may take time and time is a commodity that many don't have much of. Or as the 'no lifers' put it 'casual'.

    This was my point, it also stonewalls progress in many other activities, like the book, and the boots. If the clock tower was standalone, I'd be more then happy to avoid it and let people farm it for bags and whatever. But, since it's tied to a few other items, I don't think it's asking to much, to give a "You gave it your best" completion, after 100 tries.

    @Loboling.5293 said:
    I'm fine with this. I can't remember how many tries it took me. I don't think I ever would've gotten it if not for watching other people beat it, as I tried to keep up with them. It was one of the best feelings I had when I finally beat it, and now every year I do it still just to help others get up.

    However, if someone wants to avoid that high you get when you finally beat it, and you've been trying 100 times. I say, why not give it to you. You're missing one fun feeling when you beat it on your own.

    Anyway, after 100 times if you haven't made any real progress, just give them the achievement. My opinion.

    I agree, there should be some kind of maybe checkpoint, that have to reach for it to count.. like say.. you need to at least jump onto the platform that comes off the tower wall at the start. I know I fail getting past that point a lot. But getting to it would remove the AFK players at least.

    This is the Winter's Presence scenario all over again. What really kills me is all the people who are "It's easy, anyone can do it". I wish I could take these people and subject them to a series of REAL world trials of skill. Say shooting, car racing, billiards, orienteering, baseball, basketball, and a math test. And then I wish I could GRADE them on their success or lack thereof in ALL of those skills TOGETHER, and then say... you LOST your completion of the Clock Tower and NEVER can have it because you're not good enough in all these skills.

    Because that is what ANet is doing by gating an armor piece behind this jumping puzzle. Jumping is a skill. Making it a timed event makes it DIFFICULT SKILL. VERY. Anyone who says otherwise is likely under 20 years old or possibly jumped up on illegal substances.
    Personally, after the FIRST TWO TRIES at the CT, I just walked away. That was three, four years ago. I think I accidentally went in one other time. That's it. I play games to have fun, blow up/maim/kill mobs, to decompress and enjoy myself. I don't enjoy JP's, never have, NEVER will, and to have ANY content whatsoever gated behind a JP, especially a JP that is CLEARLY designed for very good to superior hand to eye co-ordination and reflexes is TOTALLY INSULTING TO ME PERSONALLY.

    Anet needs to STOP insulting its customers in this fashion. I truly hope that THIS wintersday that Anet has come up with an ALTERNATE METHOD to gain the step currently covered by the WD JP. And I also hope that the next time that Anet considers gating something behind a uber crazy insane difficult JP, that they PROVIDE another pathway that is REASONALBE... and I also hope that they observe the stats on how many people AVOID the JP. Might give us some real numbers to talk about.
    Nuff said.

    Wow... I find it easy and a matter of muscle memory (aka yeah, anyone can do it) so I'm a kid or I take drugs?
    I can't even imagine what you think of raids lol.

    I think you're the one insulting players who like trial and error challenges. Anet is just providing some very limited content that is based around that. The Clock Tower is one of them and so is trial and tribulations from SAB. There's still (Thanks gods) a playerbase for that kind of content, or games like Dark Souls, Binding of Isaac, Risk of Rain, whatever, would not be critical successes.

    It was challenging for me at first, I tried for hours the first year and I finally got it, and I will confirm what everyone else said, it's more memory muscle than anything, it's absolutely FINE if you don't want to spend time on that but stop asking for nerf just because you don't want to do that.
    I don't care what real skills you have irl, it doesn't matter, it's a video game, you're tested on the mechanics of that video game, and you're not automatically right or legitimate because you're having issues beating some content. This kind of behavior actually IS typical of this new generation of gamers that blame a game for offering challenge, something no older gamer who played during the golden age of video games would ever do.

    And that is why I was against the Eater of Soul nerf. The more you nerf a game, the more people want to keep nerfing it.

    "I tried for hours...." kinda says it all for me. I'll look into the armor thing, and I'll see just how easy or not it is to craft it. Given the trend displayed in Ascended crafting, I'm not exactly hopeful at this moment. And if you're insulted... that's too bad. Join the club, as I am insulted every time I contemplate having to do a JP for ANYTHING. A timed JP is NOT a trial and error puzzle. It is an exercise in high end reflexes, timing, and memory, both muscle and cognitive. Trial and error implies that you HAVE TIME to CONSIDER and ANALYZE the environment, and the TIME to form a STRATEGY and RESPONSE.
    And I AM not asking for a nerf... I want an ALTERNATE method, like say complete x pvp games, or spend x time in wvw, something like that.... OR a version of the puzzle that doesn't sink into the death goo. NON timed, NON sinking, NON insane, in other words. Take away any real rewards if you want, just give me credit for completion, that'd be fine.
    I've expressed a similar sentiment two years running in regards to the Winters Day JP, and still remain hopeful that the devs WILL eventually see reason. OH, and BTW.. the WD JP is WHY once I DID my two tries, I quit. I had tried the WD the previous December, and just about threw my laptop through a wall after about three hours of continually dying and getting nowhere. Two tries was all it took for me to see that the CT would be more of the same. The bottom line is... don't put ANYTHING, achievement points, gold, rewards, ANYTHING, behind something that CANNOT BE DONE BY EVERYONE. And I'd have to say that it's clear that TIMED JP's fall into that category. Last thing... I AM an older gamer and NO, I don't do raids, as a matter of fact. And that's part of my problem DOING this sort of puzzle. My reflexes simply are not up to it.

    It's only 400 ranks (exotic) not ascended. So after work today, I'm gonna go get my tailoring done and make a set for my necro.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • PlagueParade.7942PlagueParade.7942 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    Yes, all the armor can be crafted if that's what you're looking for and if you craft the medium head and chest piece you get both the regular and bloody versions apparently. I do not believe this JP should get any more nerfs. I understood the nerf of having everyone but you as a wisp (the amount of grief norns and charr got for their huge toons...). This JP and the wintersday one though are fine as is. It takes muscle memory to learn it. A lot of the people that I know that had trouble doing this were thinking too far ahead in the jp. It's one jump at a time. One turn at. A. Time. And once you have learned that one you jump to the next spot and learn that then learn the next turn. It is hard but when you finally finish it. It is awesome. It just takes time. (eh? you see what I did there? that little bit of a terrible joke. Look at my avatar it's funny right?! Huehue.)

  • troops.8276troops.8276 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    @Samnang.1879 said:

    @troops.8276 said:

    ??
    Requesting for a success reward after 100 failed attempts is asking for anet to kitten it down, since you don't have to successfully complete something to succeed in it.
    I never said this jp was easy, i said it was a challenge. I said hearts are easy, it's objective, not subjective, if anyone in this universe thinks gw2 hearts are hard, then idk what to say. I'ts the most braindead activity i know.

    I never been able to get gold in most HoT adventures, i'm not going to come on here to complain, "OMG i cna't get gold, plz give me pity gold reward"... kitten... that just invalidate other's efforts. It's like throwing a pie in their face.

    I see, I took 'dum down the content'' to mean making the content it self easier as opposed to making getting the reward, subjectively, easier. Doing it 100x is perseverance, which is a good thing that is often rewarded. For example in grind based games like, I don't know, most mmo's? I doubt I could persevere more than a couple of times to say, explain something to a kitten.

    Oh, you also said 90% of the game was easy not just hearts amongst other things but I'll say no more on it ;)

    Yeah, i stand by what i said, 90% of the game is easy, proceeded by examples, such as hearts, personal stories, world events, world bosses... literally i afk and press 1 while watching netflix when doing world bosses and never die. It don't get easier than that.

    And no, hard content isn't only just for no-lifers, when i was working full time, i managed to get raid w4 challenge mote title. i dedicated 5 hours each day for 7 days to get the title. do i expect others to have this dedication? no. but if u dont' put in the effort/dedication, then you dont deserve the reward.

    just like a group of people want easy content, there are groups that want hard content. there are only few hard content in the game (raids, 99cm 100cm fractals, the jp), yet everyday the forum gets complain about ppl wanting them to be easier. Why?

    Do i support anet making easier versions of those things? Yes. Do i want anet to modify the hard content, absolutely NO. hard content is what makes some ppl want to play the game.

    Uhuh, reworded like that then there's little we actually disagree on. 5 hours a day though. Far too busy for that. Casual4life. I'll not waste your time with my bleeding heart stories of why though. For arguments sake lets say I let my 6 year old kid play sometimes (which I don't if it's against any ToS) and I do. He can kill it in pvp, mid gold, and can sleep through the majority of pve content. My friends son has learning difficulties, its a bit harder for him, if he played on my account which he doesn't if it's against ToS.
    Some things people call hard I think are just tedious. You can train rats to run through complex puzzles. You might still give them a reward even if its beyond them, you know if they really, really tried hard enough. Just like you say :)

    Sorry OP.

    Edit: tl,dr if someone does it first time and another tries but fails 100 times then who put in more effort?

  • @Donari.5237 said:

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:
    Wait. What's the twitch skill? Please tell me what this is. I've beaten it, but if it would make it easier I would actually try to beat it a 2nd time.
    What is a twitch skill?

    I'll take that as a serious question. "Twitch skill" refers to having very fast reflexes, being able to very quickly and accurately do fast-reaction motion and control in games. So OP wasn't saying some people or professions have an in-game skill on their bar that helps, s/he was saying some people are physically better at rapid keyboard/mouse action.

    (I am someone without high twitch skill, though happily it is not due to anything but being older).

    A skill i am very lacking in, which is why I suck at pvp!!!

  • I spent five years trying to finish the Clock Tower jumping puzzle, and FINALLY finished it a couple nights ago. I was so friggin' happy to finally have that monkey off my back that I continued to complete it twice more during the same match. Now it feels like muscle memory and I've gone on to "win" several matchups (using quotes because you don't actually win anything for coming in first place), and have even mastered picking up the additional three chests that appear along the route.

    While I'm certainly empathetic to the frustrations of those who have yet to finish it, I'm pleased that ANet has done little or nothing to change the difficulty on this JP. It gave me immense satisfaction once I finally conquered it, after so long failing spectacularly at it.

    Practice, persistence, and above all else, patience are all that this jumping puzzle really requires.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    Maybe for you but I would watch the word "never". I have been playing games with a keyboard for, what, about 40 years. That is some pretty strong muscle memory there! To me turning with a mouse is awkward because it goes against decades of how to react.

    I don't know, each game is different, and you get used to turning the cam with the mouse quickly (in GW1, I think it was the left mousebutton, so I had to get used to the right one in GW2).

    To me, muscle memory is different for each game (because, apart from muscle memory, it also requires mental memory, and my brain has seperate "save game folders" with different settings for each game :p ). I have been playing electronic games since 1981 myself, by the way. ;)

    That is like those people saying not to hold the space bar down too long in JPs because you will not go further (even though that is precisely what you do with the raptor jump).

    Yes, that one is tricky, because in some JPs gliding has not been disabled, and then the spacebar can get in the way. I tend to press it for the duration of a whole jump as well.

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    I try the clocktower ONE time every year. It's still horrible after 5 years.

    Trust me, it is not. See other Clocktower thread for further details (I made a list in my response there about what you need to keep in mind in order to master this JP).

  • @PlagueParade.7942 said:
    Yes, all the armor can be crafted if that's what you're looking for and if you craft the medium head and chest piece you get both the regular and bloody versions apparently. I do not believe this JP should get any more nerfs. I understood the nerf of having everyone but you as a wisp (the amount of grief norns and charr got for their huge toons...). This JP and the wintersday one though are fine as is. It takes muscle memory to learn it. A lot of the people that I know that had trouble doing this were thinking too far ahead in the jp. It's one jump at a time. One turn at. A. Time. And once you have learned that one you jump to the next spot and learn that then learn the next turn. It is hard but when you finally finish it. It is awesome. It just takes time. (eh? you see what I did there? that little bit of a terrible joke. Look at my avatar it's funny right?! Huehue.)

    Having not played since the first Halloween, I was severely disappointed that I couldn't run the JP with my max size/bulk, heavy-armored, embiggen-tonic'd charr :cry:

    Permanently Embiggened

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You are correct, although I have never heard it referred to as a "twitch skill". I like it.

    Regarding the JP, I don't even bother trying any more. My reflexes are far too slow to succeed; I'm just too old to react that quickly. (And, it has NOTHING to do with memorizing the path, folks. So stop saying that.)

    I would spend the time to fail 100 times if they then changed the difficulty so it could be completed once. But, 100 attempts wasn't nearly enough to "learn the path" (as others have depressingly stated). I'm pretty patient, and I tried it far more than 100 times. But, like the Wintersday one, I can't even make a dent in it.

    (To those who mentioned that the wait is long, the delay does provide a service: it tells you how much longer other people are able to stay without dying. So, not only is it impossible for me, I get the long delay telling me that lots of kids are able to do it just fine. Thanks for the encouragement, ANet. :()

  • Manasa Devi.7958Manasa Devi.7958 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    I don't think it's a twitch skill challenge at all. It's muscle memory. Twitch, to me, means reacting extremely fast and accurately to unpredictable circumstances. Maybe my definition is wrong though. The puzzle is wholly predictable, the same every run (desynch bugs and lag excluded of course). It's just a matter of getting a little farther each time and remembering what you did to get there. The wait can certainly be an annoyance. Especially if you're in with people going all the way.

    This year, my first run was an immediate success. I guess I'm blessed with good muscle memory. When it comes to twitch, I suck, definitely.

  • Zaltys.7649Zaltys.7649 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    Regarding the JP, I don't even bother trying any more. My reflexes are far too slow to succeed; I'm just too old to react that quickly. (And, it has NOTHING to do with memorizing the path, folks. So stop saying that.)

    It's all about memorization. There's no moving parts, so nothing that needs reflexes. The route is always exactly the same. It can be completed with muscle memory alone, I don't even pay much attention to it anymore when running it.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    I gt some people are very sensitive for this, Maybe if they gave an alternate but equal reward, like, after after 50 failed tries you can chose to accept the "You tried your best", achievement which provides the gear box, and the AP, however, i locks The Clock Tower Itself, so you can never get that in the future, with the reverse also true, if you have completed the clock tower at any time, you can't get the You tried your best"

    Have this also apply to Wintrsday.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Mewcifer.5198Mewcifer.5198 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    Maybe add a title to actually completing the jumping puzzle if there isn't one already. That way people who have done it will have their special reward that no one else can get as well as ap. Then there can be a pity chest with a chance at the boots box for every x-number of tries that also doesn't come with any ap.

    My list of suggestions for GW2
    Akkebi | Akkebyyon | Alister Kebi | Akkebi Revi | Akkebi Mememachine | Occultist Lulu | Shadow Stalker Lulu| Bonebreaker Lulu
    Max Masteries | 16k AP

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zaltys.7649 said:

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    Regarding the JP, I don't even bother trying any more. My reflexes are far too slow to succeed; I'm just too old to react that quickly. (And, it has NOTHING to do with memorizing the path, folks. So stop saying that.)

    It's all about memorization. There's no moving parts, so nothing that needs reflexes. The route is always exactly the same. It can be completed with muscle memory alone, I don't even pay much attention to it anymore when running it.

    The reflexes are in needing to be quick. .or the goo catches you. Even if you know what to do..if you can't position your camera and jump quick enough. .you fail.
    So yes reflexes are needed.

    (But, I just accept that it's not for me )

This discussion has been closed.
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