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Update Coming to Drizzlewood Coast Meta

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  • Solanum.6983Solanum.6983 Member ✭✭✭

    Thank you for listening :) It was disheartening watching players without Skyscale or griffon trying to get all those chests, Glad to see everyone can get all the rewards now.

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:

    @DirtyDan.4759 said:
    Instead of making the player open 22 mini chests back to back, why not just make one chest and make the rewards scale based on how many keys have been used up to 22?

    I don't understand what you mean by "make the rewards scale based on how many keys have been used up to 22".
    However each mini chest costs one key to open, thus using a single key to open one big chest would be too convenient for us.

    They mean 1 big chest that give scaled rewards depending on if you have 1 or up to 23 keys so same as now just 1 click.
    Unsure if anet can even do that to be fair.

    Yeah it seems complicated and there is also the case that someone, even having 23+ keys, would only prefer to open less than 23 chests. That solution above would kill this chance.

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • I even thought it was cool because it gave a sense of legal exploration with the mounts, but it got tiring because of the extensive goal, if it was a shorter goal it would have been cool

  • Link.6157Link.6157 Member ✭✭
    edited August 7, 2020

    So the real problem with this map remains. This isn't why people don't play or like the meta, it's the length (and the fact that it's a zerg/laggfest). I'm already bored by the thought alone. And then there is the problem of disconnecting, gl trying to get back in a map.

  • Can we get this same loot at the end of each Skirmish in WvW too pls kthx

  • Lamont.5973Lamont.5973 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2020

    @Raizel Silverius.6430 said:
    @Fire Attunement.9835
    I'm ok with any of the changes but please FIX THE MULTI LOOT that A LOT of people are exploiting the hell out of for Otter Blessings as well as the Gifts. I was really disappointed when people told me you can actually multi loot the giant chest after defeating the Claw of Jormag in Drizzlewood Coast North Meta.

    Totally unfair for some of us who only loot said chest ONCE every meta. Basically by-passing the necessary amount of times you need to complete the meta to finish the Otter Achievement.

    I really doubt that is an exploit. You can not enter the map with any character if you did not have a character present at the end of the meta. And you only have 5 minutes before the primary chest disappears so you are limited in the number of extra characters you can use. That's pretty specific programing decisions there that seems intentionally designed to allow multi-looting on a limited basis. Given loading times you can maybe get 8 toons into the map if you are only doing the main chest and skipping the others. So an account like I have with 70 characters has little advantage over an account with only a half dozen or so. I was avoiding the multi-looting too, thinking it might be an exploit, until I realized the limitations they had put on it and it became obvious that it was an intentional design choice. Of course, that may change with this change since all the chests will be right together and you will not have to choose between extra otters or extra loot from the other chests. being able to multi loot 25 chests instead of 1 would be rather over the top.

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2020

    No you should not be able to loot all 23 at once as some are trying to suggest. I mean they already hooking you up with them all in one spot. I mean why not put all SW bandit chests in 1 spot or Bitterfrost or hell dry top sandstorm chests. I mean we have traveled the map many times looting chest and I guess because of the length of the meta this is an issue now. Oh and og dragon stand before chests at each lane wp. You have limited time plus the wyverns stonescales and rolling jerk mobs to deal with too. Now that was stressful

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • Chests ok, but what about shards?

  • FrigginPaco.4178FrigginPaco.4178 Member ✭✭✭

    That's a nice start. But being honest, I like the largess of the 2nd meta, but tagging it along to very briefly after a boss rush is a but much. In a way, the Boss Rush is a bit problematic because while one might be tempted to enjoy fat loot from it... you need some downtime to square your stuff away and give hands a break, etc.

    Please, don't anyone take this as me saying remove the boss rush or anything, I just think the pacing of the two metas back to back is exhausting. BUT THEY'RE STILL COOL (no pun intended).

    Bah I'm conflicted... it's basically what I wanted but just a tad too much at once. Plus, finding maps can be a pain even a bit later into the night.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • Pirindolo.9427Pirindolo.9427 Member ✭✭✭

    Hummm, good words to say that multiloot won't be available anymore, but the very big problem of a meta that can last between 2h to 3h (depends on south part) is still there.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2020

    @Dondarrion.2748 said:
    Great change incoming!

    Can you also perhaps look into shaving 15 minutes off the meta by the following:

    • If you participated in the south meta, your participation will be remembered and you will get the 36 Dominion Cache Keeper chests (9 x 4, is it?) also at the end. That way, when the final battle at Wolf's Crossing concludes, the meta can resume after 30 seconds to continue pushing north... now there's an artificial 15 minute break while some people go for the cache keepers, but more and more people just hang around on the central bridge at Wolf's Crossing waiting for the North meta.
    • Also, slightly speed up the part where the 3 cannons are shooting the Citadel gate... it's tedious and goes on a bit too long just running between spawning portals that are easily killed anyway.
    • Also... the Ruinbringer... is it working as it should? It's a dumb tank rolling around doing nothing while we have to spend ages killing the two shield generators. Surely there's a lot you can do to make this part of the fight more exciting. Defeat 2 shield generators, then slap the actual tank silly... it's like a sad tank rolling around getting beat up by a huge zerg. The Veteran Shaman mob in the area seems more threatening even...

    Easily a possible 20-25 minutes shaved off with these changes.

    The problem with "remembering the south meta" per say would be multi-looting issues for the end chest. If it isn't character based there is an issue presented with people using up to seventy one characters at a time if the time duration is lengthy along the lines of ten to fifteen minutes. The counterpoint to this is that people won't have that many keys to open enemy supply caches.
    Per farming guilds, the south meta has forty (40) enemy supply caches (4 per cache keeper). There's ten (10) cache keepers so that is why I think it is better off that each one spawns after successful cap of each zone. That way there would only need to be two (Yahuk Firestrike in the middle area and Rudum Wormud) that need to be killed after the assault on the bridge (Wolf's Crossing). Castor Crushpaw would be allocated to the mine in such a scenario, as it's actually closer to the spawn zone than the mine. It would also mean that the Lighthouse (NorthEast) and Village (NorthWest) have two cache keepers when assaulted which incentivize people to progress on the map even if they don't make it to the south meta. By shaving ten (10) cache keepers down to two (2) after the south meta, the potential wait time is heavily reduced if completing both metas. The profitability of the south meta remains extremely high, even in comparison to Dragonfall, so I don't think that the south meta needs that much help. The southern Drizzlewood coast would take easily an hour to complete before the Jormag Rising patch yet was quite active.

    Speeding up the cannon part before the Legions hit the main Frost Citadel gate would shave maybe five (5) minutes off the entire North meta but given the boredom during this section and the lack of added value I think it's worthwhile. The cannon part reminds me a bit of the end of the Tangled Depths Chak Gerent meta where people stare at a wall ; it also reminds me of the wait during the building defenses part of the Storms of Winter meta in Bjora Marches that nobody wants to sit for until the portals actually show up. The effort saved on the cannons should be put into the Guardian Elemental so it doesn't melt immediately. If kills advanced the charge of the cannons or something akin to that it would probably be better. The amount of time spent on the cannon part is disproportionate when looking at the north meta overall.

    The Ruinbringer does attack because I've been hit by it before while in a charr car. I believe it is a fire field of some sort. The Ruinbringer part should take roughly three to four (3-4) minutes with a competent group; I don't believe it is the largest issue even if it could use a shave down or perhaps an increase in available charr cars. The amount of time is comparable to the entirety of the Blood Collector + Icebrood Construct portion (to put it in perspective).

    The Claw of Jormag fight from the start of the cannon scrap collection portion to the end of the boss fight is roughly eight minutes. About two minutes is spent on cannon building. Less than two minutes is spent killing the three minibosses with a decent group. Perhaps having three drop zones would help with the cannon building part.
    Time allotment currently: ~ 8 minutes total (<2 minutes is spent on mini bosses , ~ 2 minutes on cannon scraps, ~4 minutes hitting the Claw of Jormag)

    The biggest bottlenecks right now are cannons during the Citadel portion and portals in the north meta pre-events involving Tribunes. 3 Svanir / Aberrant portal spawns aren't exactly engaging and neither is the corrupted shard event for the most part. The Dominion heavy artillery tank , destroy Artillery, free PoW event, destroy dolyak event, destroy camps, and prison warden event at least make more sense than the portals. If the portals are changed, then maybe some special missions (involving killing 100 fallen/aberrant/svanir) might take slightly longer to do but I think that if the chain itself is shorter it is better. The destroy portals special mission only requires 15 portals. In comparison , an Iron Legion Tribune takes roughly a minute and a half to kill whereas the portals take about forty five seconds to a minute even in a fast squad. Even in a squad with poor CC the artillery tank takes less than a minute ; the mine event lasts below thirty seconds easily and so does the corrupted shard and kill dolyak event. In essence , because the tribune "luring" pre-events are intended to be run concurrently ("hit all four at once" per Kirk Williford, the Senior Game Designer) the number one bottleneck is the cannon that opens up the front gate of the Frost Citadel.

    edit: it seems the 2 minute wait before the siege on the Frost Citadel assault (i.e. the portals + hitting the gate) is a grace period for the map to be "closed" to new players

  • Kaliwenda.3428Kaliwenda.3428 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2020

    Thank you for changing the location of the final chests :)

    I hope you are looking into ways to reduce the time of the meta.

    I got into a map that failed, then got into a new map running with a squad, and after about 15 more minutes I just got to the point that I didn't want to keep going on, knowing how much time it takes to get to the final boss of the new meta. I left the squad and quit the game. This is unusual for me.

    I feel like I have to keep trying to run it now for the mastery point and the otter, because if this meta stays the way it is (dependent on the first meta), I don't think it's going to be possible to complete after the newness wears off and people get all the achievements.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    Thanks for the feedback, and keep it coming!

    Please look into the boneskinner vial drop rate issue too no drops after making an empowered weapon while players with no empowered weapons have near perfect 100% drop rate on silver and gold runs. 25+ runs in after making an empowered weapon an 0 drops does not sound like rng to me when you have people who can get 96 in 5 runs back to back.
    The only hope for this is that its noted by developers directly and fixed by them i cant ask for help anywhere else apparently and no one from anet has acknowledged the bug despite multiple people having it with the same connecting factor and making no progress is driving me mad.

  • OtakuModeEngage.8679OtakuModeEngage.8679 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2020

    Im against splitting the meta for 4 reasons:
    1. In this map takes place the entire charr civil war from start to end, which would take weeks/months of fighting, and a long meta is a good way of representing that, giving the feel of the long drawn out conflict.
    2. In battle logic, it wouldnt make sense to advance in the north half of the map before capturing the south half, as it would cut us off from supplies and reinforcements, and place enemies on both sides, allowing them to route us.
    3. Two metas divides the map population, making each event within the meta, and thus the overall meta take longer to complete, and increases the risk of meta failure.
    4. This meta is a unique and organic set of events, that shouldnt be replicated in other maps, but definitely deserves its place in the game as it gives this epic feeling of being in a prolonged battle, having to capture, hold, and advance, and fight your way acrost the entire map.

    That said however, 2.5hrs IS definitely too long. Some people only have that much time to play, and dont want to spend it all in just one map. Other people dont even have that much time and cant finish the meta. And many of the achievements require rng drops, which each time you fail to get, require another 2.5hrs just to try again. This can be extremely irritating, especially on a limited play schedule. So the event DOES NEED to be shortened.

    Here's a few minor cuts that individually dont seem to effect each event that much, but overall can make a big difference how long it takes to complete the entire meta:
    *Bosses:
    1. Cut the Health Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
    2. Cut the Break Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
    *Champions:
    1. During meta events deactivate champion loot from all random champion spawns that are not nessisary to progress the meta, this will discourage champion farming when players should be attacking the boss.
    *Moral:
    1. Cut down on the amount of moral needed to start the next event.
    2. Cut down on the amount of demoralization needed to spawn the boss.
    *Capture:
    1. Cut down on the time you need to stand in the capture circle.
    *Spawning Tribunes:
    1. Instead of 3 events required to spawn the next Tribune, make it only 1, randonly selected of the possible options.
    2. Instead of 3 portals or 3 cannons needed to be destroyed to complete an event, make it 1.
    *Dominion Catch Keepers:
    1. Have Kasmeer follow you to each dominion Catch Keeper, and place a portal to the next. Or have a Char Chopper arrive after you defeat a catch keeper, taking you to the next.
    2. After all Catch Keepers are destroyed, start the north half of the meta immediately. The timer can still remain giving people a chance to collect loot, but dont keep the meta waiting.

  • This is great. The first time I did it (on launch day), I didn't even REALIZE there was a loot phase. Imagine my shock and irkedness when I did it the other day and saw chests all over the landscape.

  • @OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:
    Im against splitting the meta for 4 reasons:
    1. In this map takes place the entire charr civil war from start to end, which would take weeks/months of fighting, and a long meta is a good way of representing that, giving the feel of the long drawn out conflict.
    2. In battle logic, it wouldnt make sense to advance in the north half of the map before capturing the south half, as it would cut us off from supplies and reinforcements, and place enemies on both sides, allowing them to route us.
    3. Two metas divides the map population, making each event within the meta, and thus the overall meta take longer to complete, and increases the risk of meta failure.
    4. This meta is a unique and organic set of events, that shouldnt be replicated in other maps, but definitely deserves its place in the game as it gives this epic feeling of being in a prolonged battle, having to capture, hold, and advance, and fight your way acrost the entire map.

    That said however, 2.5hrs IS definitely too long. Some people only have that much time to play, and dont want to spend it all in just one map. Other people dont even have that much time and cant finish the meta. And many of the achievements require rng drops, which each time you fail to get, require another 2.5hrs just to try again. This can be extremely irritating, especially on a limited play schedule. So the event DOES NEED to be shortened.

    Here's a few minor cuts that individually dont seem to effect each event that much, but overall can make a big difference how long it takes to complete the entire meta:
    *Bosses:
    1. Cut the Health Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
    2. Cut the Break Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
    *Champions:
    1. During meta events deactivate champion loot from all random champion spawns that are not nessisary to progress the meta, this will discourage champion farming when players should be attacking the boss.
    *Moral:
    1. Cut down on the amount of moral needed to start the next event.
    2. Cut down on the amount of demoralization needed to spawn the boss.
    *Capture:
    1. Cut down on the time you need to stand in the capture circle.
    *Spawning Tribunes:
    1. Instead of 3 events required to spawn the next Tribune, make it only 1, randonly selected of the possible options.
    2. Instead of 3 portals or 3 cannons needed to be destroyed to complete an event, make it 1.
    *Dominion Catch Keepers:
    1. Have Kasmeer follow you to each dominion Catch Keeper, and place a portal to the next. Or have a Char Chopper arrive after you defeat a catch keeper, taking you to the next.
    2. After all Catch Keepers are destroyed, start the north half of the meta immediately. The timer can still remain giving people a chance to collect loot, but dont keep the meta waiting.

    I completely agree with you on keeping the meta together and I agree with you on a lot of mechanical changes, except for certain things like the reduction of boss health and breakbars. I feel that by shortening the length of the event somewhat, the actual encounters should become more meaningful and difficult to compensate. I also think that maybe reducing the events needed to spawn tribunes to 1 might be going too much in the other direction, unless the one event that was left would take as long as at least 1.5 events currently. I'd probably reduce it to 2 events before tribune spawn and see how that affects the meta length before going down to 1. I'm also unclear what you mean by keeping the timer but stating the northern half immediately. Wouldn't the timer serve no purpose if the meta has already progressed?

  • @Tempest.8479 said:

    @OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:
    Im against splitting the meta for 4 reasons:
    1. In this map takes place the entire charr civil war from start to end, which would take weeks/months of fighting, and a long meta is a good way of representing that, giving the feel of the long drawn out conflict.
    2. In battle logic, it wouldnt make sense to advance in the north half of the map before capturing the south half, as it would cut us off from supplies and reinforcements, and place enemies on both sides, allowing them to route us.
    3. Two metas divides the map population, making each event within the meta, and thus the overall meta take longer to complete, and increases the risk of meta failure.
    4. This meta is a unique and organic set of events, that shouldnt be replicated in other maps, but definitely deserves its place in the game as it gives this epic feeling of being in a prolonged battle, having to capture, hold, and advance, and fight your way acrost the entire map.

    That said however, 2.5hrs IS definitely too long. Some people only have that much time to play, and dont want to spend it all in just one map. Other people dont even have that much time and cant finish the meta. And many of the achievements require rng drops, which each time you fail to get, require another 2.5hrs just to try again. This can be extremely irritating, especially on a limited play schedule. So the event DOES NEED to be shortened.

    Here's a few minor cuts that individually dont seem to effect each event that much, but overall can make a big difference how long it takes to complete the entire meta:
    *Bosses:
    1. Cut the Health Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
    2. Cut the Break Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
    *Champions:
    1. During meta events deactivate champion loot from all random champion spawns that are not nessisary to progress the meta, this will discourage champion farming when players should be attacking the boss.
    *Moral:
    1. Cut down on the amount of moral needed to start the next event.
    2. Cut down on the amount of demoralization needed to spawn the boss.
    *Capture:
    1. Cut down on the time you need to stand in the capture circle.
    *Spawning Tribunes:
    1. Instead of 3 events required to spawn the next Tribune, make it only 1, randonly selected of the possible options.
    2. Instead of 3 portals or 3 cannons needed to be destroyed to complete an event, make it 1.
    *Dominion Catch Keepers:
    1. Have Kasmeer follow you to each dominion Catch Keeper, and place a portal to the next. Or have a Char Chopper arrive after you defeat a catch keeper, taking you to the next.
    2. After all Catch Keepers are destroyed, start the north half of the meta immediately. The timer can still remain giving people a chance to collect loot, but dont keep the meta waiting.

    I completely agree with you on keeping the meta together and I agree with you on a lot of mechanical changes, except for certain things like the reduction of boss health and breakbars. I feel that by shortening the length of the event somewhat, the actual encounters should become more meaningful and difficult to compensate. I also think that maybe reducing the events needed to spawn tribunes to 1 might be going too much in the other direction, unless the one event that was left would take as long as at least 1.5 events currently. I'd probably reduce it to 2 events before tribune spawn and see how that affects the meta length before going down to 1. I'm also unclear what you mean by keeping the timer but stating the northern half immediately. Wouldn't the timer serve no purpose if the meta has already progressed?

    Hey, so I was just listing every possible shortening method I could think of. They dont have to do all of this, but any combo of it could help trim things down and the more they trim the shorter it becomes.

    Imo the tribune spawning events were never difficult, they were only time consuming, so trimming them to 1 removes no difficulty, it only speeds things up. If they want to make the events themselves more difficult, by all means, but I in no way believe numbers create difficulty.

    As for the timer bit, currently when it hits zero, all the loot chest dissapear and the next event begins. What I was proposing is that as soon as the last keeper dies, the next event starts immediatly, regardless of how much time is left. But the timer remains, not as an event fail timer, but a hurry up and get your chest while they are still available timer. Because if the chest dissapeared immediately as soon as the last catch keeper died, a lot of people wouldnt get them.

  • @OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

    @Tempest.8479 said:

    @OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:
    Im against splitting the meta for 4 reasons:
    1. In this map takes place the entire charr civil war from start to end, which would take weeks/months of fighting, and a long meta is a good way of representing that, giving the feel of the long drawn out conflict.
    2. In battle logic, it wouldnt make sense to advance in the north half of the map before capturing the south half, as it would cut us off from supplies and reinforcements, and place enemies on both sides, allowing them to route us.
    3. Two metas divides the map population, making each event within the meta, and thus the overall meta take longer to complete, and increases the risk of meta failure.
    4. This meta is a unique and organic set of events, that shouldnt be replicated in other maps, but definitely deserves its place in the game as it gives this epic feeling of being in a prolonged battle, having to capture, hold, and advance, and fight your way acrost the entire map.

    That said however, 2.5hrs IS definitely too long. Some people only have that much time to play, and dont want to spend it all in just one map. Other people dont even have that much time and cant finish the meta. And many of the achievements require rng drops, which each time you fail to get, require another 2.5hrs just to try again. This can be extremely irritating, especially on a limited play schedule. So the event DOES NEED to be shortened.

    Here's a few minor cuts that individually dont seem to effect each event that much, but overall can make a big difference how long it takes to complete the entire meta:
    *Bosses:
    1. Cut the Health Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
    2. Cut the Break Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
    *Champions:
    1. During meta events deactivate champion loot from all random champion spawns that are not nessisary to progress the meta, this will discourage champion farming when players should be attacking the boss.
    *Moral:
    1. Cut down on the amount of moral needed to start the next event.
    2. Cut down on the amount of demoralization needed to spawn the boss.
    *Capture:
    1. Cut down on the time you need to stand in the capture circle.
    *Spawning Tribunes:
    1. Instead of 3 events required to spawn the next Tribune, make it only 1, randonly selected of the possible options.
    2. Instead of 3 portals or 3 cannons needed to be destroyed to complete an event, make it 1.
    *Dominion Catch Keepers:
    1. Have Kasmeer follow you to each dominion Catch Keeper, and place a portal to the next. Or have a Char Chopper arrive after you defeat a catch keeper, taking you to the next.
    2. After all Catch Keepers are destroyed, start the north half of the meta immediately. The timer can still remain giving people a chance to collect loot, but dont keep the meta waiting.

    I completely agree with you on keeping the meta together and I agree with you on a lot of mechanical changes, except for certain things like the reduction of boss health and breakbars. I feel that by shortening the length of the event somewhat, the actual encounters should become more meaningful and difficult to compensate. I also think that maybe reducing the events needed to spawn tribunes to 1 might be going too much in the other direction, unless the one event that was left would take as long as at least 1.5 events currently. I'd probably reduce it to 2 events before tribune spawn and see how that affects the meta length before going down to 1. I'm also unclear what you mean by keeping the timer but stating the northern half immediately. Wouldn't the timer serve no purpose if the meta has already progressed?

    Hey, so I was just listing every possible shortening method I could think of. They dont have to do all of this, but any combo of it could help trim things down and the more they trim the shorter it becomes.

    Imo the tribune spawning events were never difficult, they were only time consuming, so trimming them to 1 removes no difficulty, it only speeds things up. If they want to make the events themselves more difficult, by all means, but I in no way believe numbers create difficulty.

    As for the timer bit, currently when it hits zero, all the loot chest dissapear and the next event begins. What I was proposing is that as soon as the last keeper dies, the next event starts immediatly, regardless of how much time is left. But the timer remains, not as an event fail timer, but a hurry up and get your chest while they are still available timer. Because if the chest dissapeared immediately as soon as the last catch keeper died, a lot of people wouldnt get them.

    Yeah I completely understand that the list of changes wasn't necessarily meant as a suggestion to implement everything, and even if only some of those would be added I think it would be an overall positive for the health of the meta. I guess my only objection to your proposed changes was just that reducing the number of events down to 1 wouldn't make those encounters feel as meaningful, especially as these territories should theoretically be more heavily fortified given their proximity to the citadel. I 100% agree with you that numbers don't equal difficulty. I just feel like claiming those territories after 1 event would feel a bit too easy, especially coming from the southern half where capturing objectives was made to be such a big ordeal.

    Thanks for the clarification on the timer change. Now that you say it like that, I could definitely see its merits. The only problem I could foresee would be some people not realizing the new meta has already started, but I think it could be solved with the proper telegraphing and wording on the timer itself.

  • OtakuModeEngage.8679OtakuModeEngage.8679 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2020

    @Tempest.8479 said:

    @OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

    @Tempest.8479 said:

    @OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:
    Im against splitting the meta for 4 reasons:
    1. In this map takes place the entire charr civil war from start to end, which would take weeks/months of fighting, and a long meta is a good way of representing that, giving the feel of the long drawn out conflict.
    2. In battle logic, it wouldnt make sense to advance in the north half of the map before capturing the south half, as it would cut us off from supplies and reinforcements, and place enemies on both sides, allowing them to route us.
    3. Two metas divides the map population, making each event within the meta, and thus the overall meta take longer to complete, and increases the risk of meta failure.
    4. This meta is a unique and organic set of events, that shouldnt be replicated in other maps, but definitely deserves its place in the game as it gives this epic feeling of being in a prolonged battle, having to capture, hold, and advance, and fight your way acrost the entire map.

    That said however, 2.5hrs IS definitely too long. Some people only have that much time to play, and dont want to spend it all in just one map. Other people dont even have that much time and cant finish the meta. And many of the achievements require rng drops, which each time you fail to get, require another 2.5hrs just to try again. This can be extremely irritating, especially on a limited play schedule. So the event DOES NEED to be shortened.

    Here's a few minor cuts that individually dont seem to effect each event that much, but overall can make a big difference how long it takes to complete the entire meta:
    *Bosses:
    1. Cut the Health Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
    2. Cut the Break Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
    *Champions:
    1. During meta events deactivate champion loot from all random champion spawns that are not nessisary to progress the meta, this will discourage champion farming when players should be attacking the boss.
    *Moral:
    1. Cut down on the amount of moral needed to start the next event.
    2. Cut down on the amount of demoralization needed to spawn the boss.
    *Capture:
    1. Cut down on the time you need to stand in the capture circle.
    *Spawning Tribunes:
    1. Instead of 3 events required to spawn the next Tribune, make it only 1, randonly selected of the possible options.
    2. Instead of 3 portals or 3 cannons needed to be destroyed to complete an event, make it 1.
    *Dominion Catch Keepers:
    1. Have Kasmeer follow you to each dominion Catch Keeper, and place a portal to the next. Or have a Char Chopper arrive after you defeat a catch keeper, taking you to the next.
    2. After all Catch Keepers are destroyed, start the north half of the meta immediately. The timer can still remain giving people a chance to collect loot, but dont keep the meta waiting.

    I completely agree with you on keeping the meta together and I agree with you on a lot of mechanical changes, except for certain things like the reduction of boss health and breakbars. I feel that by shortening the length of the event somewhat, the actual encounters should become more meaningful and difficult to compensate. I also think that maybe reducing the events needed to spawn tribunes to 1 might be going too much in the other direction, unless the one event that was left would take as long as at least 1.5 events currently. I'd probably reduce it to 2 events before tribune spawn and see how that affects the meta length before going down to 1. I'm also unclear what you mean by keeping the timer but stating the northern half immediately. Wouldn't the timer serve no purpose if the meta has already progressed?

    Hey, so I was just listing every possible shortening method I could think of. They dont have to do all of this, but any combo of it could help trim things down and the more they trim the shorter it becomes.

    Imo the tribune spawning events were never difficult, they were only time consuming, so trimming them to 1 removes no difficulty, it only speeds things up. If they want to make the events themselves more difficult, by all means, but I in no way believe numbers create difficulty.

    As for the timer bit, currently when it hits zero, all the loot chest dissapear and the next event begins. What I was proposing is that as soon as the last keeper dies, the next event starts immediatly, regardless of how much time is left. But the timer remains, not as an event fail timer, but a hurry up and get your chest while they are still available timer. Because if the chest dissapeared immediately as soon as the last catch keeper died, a lot of people wouldnt get them.

    Yeah I completely understand that the list of changes wasn't necessarily meant as a suggestion to implement everything, and even if only some of those would be added I think it would be an overall positive for the health of the meta. I guess my only objection to your proposed changes was just that reducing the number of events down to 1 wouldn't make those encounters feel as meaningful, especially as these territories should theoretically be more heavily fortified given their proximity to the citadel. I 100% agree with you that numbers don't equal difficulty. I just feel like claiming those territories after 1 event would feel a bit too easy, especially coming from the southern half where capturing objectives was made to be such a big ordeal.

    Thanks for the clarification on the timer change. Now that you say it like that, I could definitely see its merits. The only problem I could foresee would be some people not realizing the new meta has already started, but I think it could be solved with the proper telegraphing and wording on the timer itself.

    I agree those areas should feel fortified, but oddly enough, half of them aren't, there isn't so much as a campsite, much less walls and cannons, which makes me question why we cap them in the first place. I suppose one could argue that the terrain itself holds some kind of strategic value, but honestly it feels like the only reason they put caps there is to give us a reason to fight tribunes. I think they could do without it, and just spawn those tribunes(the ones not actually guarding a camp) in the fortress.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    As we mentioned on last week's Guild Chat, we've been listening to your feedback about the meta and taking it into account. With that in mind, we want to let you know about an update coming to the game next Tuesday, August 11. After the update is released, the chests that spawn throughout the map at the end of the meta will all be relocated to Claw's Roost. Now you can reap all the same rewards in one convenient location rather than searching the map!

    Thanks for the feedback, and keep it coming!

    How about 1 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Memory_of_Otter in each of those smaller chests?

  • Tempest.8479Tempest.8479 Member ✭✭
    edited August 8, 2020

    @OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

    @Tempest.8479 said:

    @OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

    @Tempest.8479 said:

    @OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:
    Im against splitting the meta for 4 reasons:
    1. In this map takes place the entire charr civil war from start to end, which would take weeks/months of fighting, and a long meta is a good way of representing that, giving the feel of the long drawn out conflict.
    2. In battle logic, it wouldnt make sense to advance in the north half of the map before capturing the south half, as it would cut us off from supplies and reinforcements, and place enemies on both sides, allowing them to route us.
    3. Two metas divides the map population, making each event within the meta, and thus the overall meta take longer to complete, and increases the risk of meta failure.
    4. This meta is a unique and organic set of events, that shouldnt be replicated in other maps, but definitely deserves its place in the game as it gives this epic feeling of being in a prolonged battle, having to capture, hold, and advance, and fight your way acrost the entire map.

    That said however, 2.5hrs IS definitely too long. Some people only have that much time to play, and dont want to spend it all in just one map. Other people dont even have that much time and cant finish the meta. And many of the achievements require rng drops, which each time you fail to get, require another 2.5hrs just to try again. This can be extremely irritating, especially on a limited play schedule. So the event DOES NEED to be shortened.

    Here's a few minor cuts that individually dont seem to effect each event that much, but overall can make a big difference how long it takes to complete the entire meta:
    *Bosses:
    1. Cut the Health Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
    2. Cut the Break Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
    *Champions:
    1. During meta events deactivate champion loot from all random champion spawns that are not nessisary to progress the meta, this will discourage champion farming when players should be attacking the boss.
    *Moral:
    1. Cut down on the amount of moral needed to start the next event.
    2. Cut down on the amount of demoralization needed to spawn the boss.
    *Capture:
    1. Cut down on the time you need to stand in the capture circle.
    *Spawning Tribunes:
    1. Instead of 3 events required to spawn the next Tribune, make it only 1, randonly selected of the possible options.
    2. Instead of 3 portals or 3 cannons needed to be destroyed to complete an event, make it 1.
    *Dominion Catch Keepers:
    1. Have Kasmeer follow you to each dominion Catch Keeper, and place a portal to the next. Or have a Char Chopper arrive after you defeat a catch keeper, taking you to the next.
    2. After all Catch Keepers are destroyed, start the north half of the meta immediately. The timer can still remain giving people a chance to collect loot, but dont keep the meta waiting.

    I completely agree with you on keeping the meta together and I agree with you on a lot of mechanical changes, except for certain things like the reduction of boss health and breakbars. I feel that by shortening the length of the event somewhat, the actual encounters should become more meaningful and difficult to compensate. I also think that maybe reducing the events needed to spawn tribunes to 1 might be going too much in the other direction, unless the one event that was left would take as long as at least 1.5 events currently. I'd probably reduce it to 2 events before tribune spawn and see how that affects the meta length before going down to 1. I'm also unclear what you mean by keeping the timer but stating the northern half immediately. Wouldn't the timer serve no purpose if the meta has already progressed?

    Hey, so I was just listing every possible shortening method I could think of. They dont have to do all of this, but any combo of it could help trim things down and the more they trim the shorter it becomes.

    Imo the tribune spawning events were never difficult, they were only time consuming, so trimming them to 1 removes no difficulty, it only speeds things up. If they want to make the events themselves more difficult, by all means, but I in no way believe numbers create difficulty.

    As for the timer bit, currently when it hits zero, all the loot chest dissapear and the next event begins. What I was proposing is that as soon as the last keeper dies, the next event starts immediatly, regardless of how much time is left. But the timer remains, not as an event fail timer, but a hurry up and get your chest while they are still available timer. Because if the chest dissapeared immediately as soon as the last catch keeper died, a lot of people wouldnt get them.

    Yeah I completely understand that the list of changes wasn't necessarily meant as a suggestion to implement everything, and even if only some of those would be added I think it would be an overall positive for the health of the meta. I guess my only objection to your proposed changes was just that reducing the number of events down to 1 wouldn't make those encounters feel as meaningful, especially as these territories should theoretically be more heavily fortified given their proximity to the citadel. I 100% agree with you that numbers don't equal difficulty. I just feel like claiming those territories after 1 event would feel a bit too easy, especially coming from the southern half where capturing objectives was made to be such a big ordeal.

    Thanks for the clarification on the timer change. Now that you say it like that, I could definitely see its merits. The only problem I could foresee would be some people not realizing the new meta has already started, but I think it could be solved with the proper telegraphing and wording on the timer itself.

    I agree those areas should feel fortified, but oddly enough, half of them aren't, there isn't so much as a campsite, much less walls and cannons, which makes me question why we cap them in the first place. I suppose one could argue that the terrain itself holds some kind of strategic value, but honestly it feels like the only reason they put caps there is to give us a reason to fight tribunes. I think they could do without it, and just spawn those tribunes(the ones not actually guarding a camp) in the fortress.

    That's actually a really good point. What if there was a lesser version of the storm that helps push people off the northern half present the whole time? It could work similar to the frostbite aura on the Whisper of Jormag strike. That way it could be explained that the Dominion/Frost Legion didn't feel the need to fortify the citadel's immediate surroundings as much because they were using the storm itself as cover.

    This could create an added layer of difficulty to the area, making it feel more oppressive to traverse on your own while also creating more of a need for support builds/the medizooka. Then they could reduce the number of events to capture the territories or move the tribunes like you suggested without it feeling like they were making things too easy for players.

    I would imagine that it would also dissipate after the final assault finished, giving people time to explore without the need to rush chests only to return with a vengeance to push people off the map.

    Edit: now that I think about it, it could also just work like the blizzard in Bjora. Just add a few raven shrines to the northern half and it would work imo.

  • OtakuModeEngage.8679OtakuModeEngage.8679 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2020

    @Tempest.8479 said:

    @OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

    @Tempest.8479 said:

    @OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

    @Tempest.8479 said:

    @OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:
    Im against splitting the meta for 4 reasons:
    1. In this map takes place the entire charr civil war from start to end, which would take weeks/months of fighting, and a long meta is a good way of representing that, giving the feel of the long drawn out conflict.
    2. In battle logic, it wouldnt make sense to advance in the north half of the map before capturing the south half, as it would cut us off from supplies and reinforcements, and place enemies on both sides, allowing them to route us.
    3. Two metas divides the map population, making each event within the meta, and thus the overall meta take longer to complete, and increases the risk of meta failure.
    4. This meta is a unique and organic set of events, that shouldnt be replicated in other maps, but definitely deserves its place in the game as it gives this epic feeling of being in a prolonged battle, having to capture, hold, and advance, and fight your way acrost the entire map.

    That said however, 2.5hrs IS definitely too long. Some people only have that much time to play, and dont want to spend it all in just one map. Other people dont even have that much time and cant finish the meta. And many of the achievements require rng drops, which each time you fail to get, require another 2.5hrs just to try again. This can be extremely irritating, especially on a limited play schedule. So the event DOES NEED to be shortened.

    Here's a few minor cuts that individually dont seem to effect each event that much, but overall can make a big difference how long it takes to complete the entire meta:
    *Bosses:
    1. Cut the Health Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
    2. Cut the Break Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
    *Champions:
    1. During meta events deactivate champion loot from all random champion spawns that are not nessisary to progress the meta, this will discourage champion farming when players should be attacking the boss.
    *Moral:
    1. Cut down on the amount of moral needed to start the next event.
    2. Cut down on the amount of demoralization needed to spawn the boss.
    *Capture:
    1. Cut down on the time you need to stand in the capture circle.
    *Spawning Tribunes:
    1. Instead of 3 events required to spawn the next Tribune, make it only 1, randonly selected of the possible options.
    2. Instead of 3 portals or 3 cannons needed to be destroyed to complete an event, make it 1.
    *Dominion Catch Keepers:
    1. Have Kasmeer follow you to each dominion Catch Keeper, and place a portal to the next. Or have a Char Chopper arrive after you defeat a catch keeper, taking you to the next.
    2. After all Catch Keepers are destroyed, start the north half of the meta immediately. The timer can still remain giving people a chance to collect loot, but dont keep the meta waiting.

    I completely agree with you on keeping the meta together and I agree with you on a lot of mechanical changes, except for certain things like the reduction of boss health and breakbars. I feel that by shortening the length of the event somewhat, the actual encounters should become more meaningful and difficult to compensate. I also think that maybe reducing the events needed to spawn tribunes to 1 might be going too much in the other direction, unless the one event that was left would take as long as at least 1.5 events currently. I'd probably reduce it to 2 events before tribune spawn and see how that affects the meta length before going down to 1. I'm also unclear what you mean by keeping the timer but stating the northern half immediately. Wouldn't the timer serve no purpose if the meta has already progressed?

    Hey, so I was just listing every possible shortening method I could think of. They dont have to do all of this, but any combo of it could help trim things down and the more they trim the shorter it becomes.

    Imo the tribune spawning events were never difficult, they were only time consuming, so trimming them to 1 removes no difficulty, it only speeds things up. If they want to make the events themselves more difficult, by all means, but I in no way believe numbers create difficulty.

    As for the timer bit, currently when it hits zero, all the loot chest dissapear and the next event begins. What I was proposing is that as soon as the last keeper dies, the next event starts immediatly, regardless of how much time is left. But the timer remains, not as an event fail timer, but a hurry up and get your chest while they are still available timer. Because if the chest dissapeared immediately as soon as the last catch keeper died, a lot of people wouldnt get them.

    Yeah I completely understand that the list of changes wasn't necessarily meant as a suggestion to implement everything, and even if only some of those would be added I think it would be an overall positive for the health of the meta. I guess my only objection to your proposed changes was just that reducing the number of events down to 1 wouldn't make those encounters feel as meaningful, especially as these territories should theoretically be more heavily fortified given their proximity to the citadel. I 100% agree with you that numbers don't equal difficulty. I just feel like claiming those territories after 1 event would feel a bit too easy, especially coming from the southern half where capturing objectives was made to be such a big ordeal.

    Thanks for the clarification on the timer change. Now that you say it like that, I could definitely see its merits. The only problem I could foresee would be some people not realizing the new meta has already started, but I think it could be solved with the proper telegraphing and wording on the timer itself.

    I agree those areas should feel fortified, but oddly enough, half of them aren't, there isn't so much as a campsite, much less walls and cannons, which makes me question why we cap them in the first place. I suppose one could argue that the terrain itself holds some kind of strategic value, but honestly it feels like the only reason they put caps there is to give us a reason to fight tribunes. I think they could do without it, and just spawn those tribunes(the ones not actually guarding a camp) in the fortress.

    That's actually a really good point. What if there was a lesser version of the storm that helps push people off the northern half present the whole time? It could work similar to the frostbite aura on the Whisper of Jormag strike. That way it could be explained that the Dominion/Frost Legion didn't feel the need to fortify the citadel's immediate surroundings as much because they were using the storm itself as cover.

    This could create an added layer of difficulty to the area, making it feel more oppressive to traverse on your own while also creating more of a need for support builds/the medizooka. Then they could reduce the number of events to capture the territories or move the tribunes like you suggested without it feeling like they were making things too easy for players.

    I would imagine that it would also dissipate after the final assault finished, giving people time to explore without the need to rush chests only to return with a vengeance to push people off the map.

    Edit: now that I think about it, it could also just work like the blizzard in Bjora. Just add a few raven shrines to the northern half and it would work imo.

    I LOVE that because it gives more value to the raven's masteries, which currently only help with one map, and thus make the grind for them feel worthless.

    Conversely, instead of placing the extra Tribunes in the Citadel they could make them also spawn in the fortified camps, so you'd have to fight two or three tribunes at once, that would also give added dificulty.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    multiloot is problem? not for me, I am not use it and not panic. And I don't scare if is will be disabled.
    BUT I am scare if it will be disable as in DragonStand, when you can join on half way, or after router restart you can be sure that this map also not for you, no matter have mirror to much players or not. Continued reward from any start point is more solid and chill way for me and I hope for others too.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Zaxares.5419Zaxares.5419 Member ✭✭✭

    In addition to all of the feedback already provided, can I also request that additional options for commendations be added? I'd like to have a "Split my commendations between the Dominion and Corrupted" and a "Split my commendations six ways between all the factions" as well.

  • @Zaxares.5419 said:
    In addition to all of the feedback already provided, can I also request that additional options for commendations be added? I'd like to have a "Split my commendations between the Dominion and Corrupted" and a "Split my commendations six ways between all the factions" as well.

    Agreed! If a fractal/raid npc can go through a loop of which golems to apply, ect - then we can have which commendation to split between. and a single "reset" (or equally distribute) button.

  • The problem (in my opinion) is not having to run around to collect loot from chests once Claw is defeated. It takes way too much time to complete the southern meta event chain, then wait 15 more minutes for the cache champions to be defeated (or not), then push the north meta events, go all the way through the frost citadel. It can take up to 2-2,5 hours. Many people are fed up with the grinding nature of the achievements in the latest Icebrood Saga episodes, especially those that have mastery points locked behind them. Even myself, maxed the last mastery just last night, because I was avoiding playing in the map. You did a great job back then, splitting the pre-events from the main meta events in Verdant Brink, Auric Basin and Tangled Depths. Slightly made Dragon Stand faster as well. The same can be done now, in a rather easy and non-gamebreaking manner: War Supplies! Split the southern and northern meta events and put them on fixed time schedule, bihourly I guess. But for the northern meta to even begin, have players donate X amount of War Supplies to a NPC, otherwise the event will not begin. At least we'll have a reason to use War Supplies this way.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Naeleen.7601 said:
    The problem (in my opinion) is not having to run around to collect loot from chests once Claw is defeated. It takes way too much time to complete the southern meta event chain, then wait 15 more minutes for the cache champions to be defeated (or not), then push the north meta events, go all the way through the frost citadel. It can take up to 2-2,5 hours. Many people are fed up with the grinding nature of the achievements in the latest Icebrood Saga episodes, especially those that have mastery points locked behind them. Even myself, maxed the last mastery just last night, because I was avoiding playing in the map. You did a great job back then, splitting the pre-events from the main meta events in Verdant Brink, Auric Basin and Tangled Depths. Slightly made Dragon Stand faster as well. The same can be done now, in a rather easy and non-gamebreaking manner: War Supplies! Split the southern and northern meta events and put them on fixed time schedule, bihourly I guess. But for the northern meta to even begin, have players donate X amount of War Supplies to a NPC, otherwise the event will not begin. At least we'll have a reason to use War Supplies this way.

    So buying keys aint good enough?

  • thanl you so much for this!

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    That is great news! :)

    P.S. Now, if you could separate the two meta events as well, everyone would rejoice. ;)

  • Kaliwenda.3428Kaliwenda.3428 Member ✭✭✭

    @Naeleen.7601 said:
    The problem (in my opinion) is not having to run around to collect loot from chests once Claw is defeated. It takes way too much time to complete the southern meta event chain, then wait 15 more minutes for the cache champions to be defeated (or not), then push the north meta events, go all the way through the frost citadel. It can take up to 2-2,5 hours. Many people are fed up with the grinding nature of the achievements in the latest Icebrood Saga episodes, especially those that have mastery points locked behind them. Even myself, maxed the last mastery just last night, because I was avoiding playing in the map. You did a great job back then, splitting the pre-events from the main meta events in Verdant Brink, Auric Basin and Tangled Depths. Slightly made Dragon Stand faster as well. The same can be done now, in a rather easy and non-gamebreaking manner: War Supplies! Split the southern and northern meta events and put them on fixed time schedule, bihourly I guess. But for the northern meta to even begin, have players donate X amount of War Supplies to a NPC, otherwise the event will not begin. At least we'll have a reason to use War Supplies this way.

    The first map I got into yesterday had a handful of players trying to do the southern meta, struggling but doing ok with it, until we ran out of time in Leadfoot Village. After that everyone bailed.

    I got into another map with a squad, but after about 15 minutes of doing the same stuff I'd just been doing and knowing how much more time I needed to invest to get to the Claw fight, I gave up.

    I understand wanting to create something that feels like an epic incursion into enemy-controlled territory, but this goes overboard in my opinion. It's not just that it's so long, it's the unrelenting nature of the event over that amount of time...its really punishing on the eyes and hands/wrists.

  • Acyk.9671Acyk.9671 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2020

    @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    As we mentioned on last week's Guild Chat, we've been listening to your feedback about the meta and taking it into account. With that in mind, we want to let you know about an update coming to the game next Tuesday, August 11. After the update is released, the chests that spawn throughout the map at the end of the meta will all be relocated to Claw's Roost. Now you can reap all the same rewards in one convenient location rather than searching the map!

    Thanks for the feedback, and keep it coming!

    Adding an actual reward to the WvW reward track would be nice :)

  • Are you going to do anything with this loooong meta, split or something? I do not have time to play over 2 hours without any break.

  • Andy.5981Andy.5981 Member ✭✭✭

    There are people taking advantage of Multi-loot. One person whom I know definitely did so. It needs sorting.

    This change does nothing to sort out the problems the map has.

    I've lost count how many maps / groups I've tried to join advertised on LFG - nope map full.

    I've lost count on how many maps three or four of us have attempted the escort events to capture the mine and the overlook - failing during the capture phase due to the amount/toughness of the enemy.

    It went from a map that you could join quite easily and on occasion one where the map was nearly done, to a map where you are only going to end up on a dead one. I've just spent 30 minutes trying to get onto an active map. No chance. So that has eaten into 30 minutes of my playtime. The maps I was on? Dead.

    You need to loosen the restrictions on joining active maps.

    You need to make the enemy scale proportionately to the number of players trying to do the events. They don't at the moment.

    A lot of people have commented on the forums that they're only going to run through the story and that is it, they're never going to go there again.

    You have taken something that was fun and basically killed it for a lot of players. Remember what this game is supposed to be.

  • Tuna Bandit.3786Tuna Bandit.3786 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree with the above comments.
    Yes this is a bit easier than running around but few pointers still:

    I agree it's too long, I also have experienced the same issues getting on an active map.
    The scaling also is a nightmare. If you are on a dead map, it feels you are forbidden to progress ANY of your achievements due to the extreme agro the mobs give.
    (Not only the snipers, but the broken siege the enemy uses that ignores things like walls, bedrock, even gravity)

    The map is meta and META ALONE. Without Meta, there is ZERO desire to be there.
    That is maybe the biggest issue with the map.

    I look forward to the day I am done with this map, because I have no desire to return there.

    @Andy.5981 said:

    You have taken something that was fun and basically killed it for a lot of players. Remember what this game is supposed to be.

    This!

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2020

    Look in lfg find Fresh map w commander join that.
    If you want to try join something in lfg further along like 5/6 or north then be prepared to spam join map on someone hoping someone leaves.
    Don't try and go take mine with 5 on a dead map you just setting yourself up for disappointment.
    Complaining while just logging into the map expecting it to throw you into north or far along is pure luck and don't expect the game to hook you up and go oh this map has 83/84 let this guy in.
    Learn to use lfg. I have done this 36 times to get otter not multi-looting and about 10 I have snuck into further along maps watching lfg and getting in or spamming for 5 minutes and get in.
    Fresh start is best and most lucrative anyway. Now I just join that and do 1st half and leave because the gph dips big time 2nd half

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2020

    +1 from me on the "chests in one place is nice" praise. I like it!

    I will, however, echo @Andy.5981 on the map scaling. While it might be excessive to allow us to solo every area capture on the south meta, it's still pretty much impossible to pull off with 3 pretty good players. I think I've capped the Mine and the Overlook with just 5 people total, but pretty much everyone was a 338 mastery and I could recognize raid rotations... so a very much above-average group. I think those events should scale down much more forgivingly than they do, and that might go a long way in making more maps feel like they're worth committing to.

    I do not like the idea of splitting the metas though. I feel like it'll turn out very similarly to the Vigil Keep meta on Bjora's first half, where people really don't run it nearly as consistently as they used to, in favor of blitzing Drakkar. I just think, like many others have mentioned, that shaving down how long the combined meta takes would be enough to preserve the cumbersome military campaign feel to the whole thing, which I think is very, very fitting of the story being told.

  • DaFishBob.6518DaFishBob.6518 Member ✭✭✭

    This is obviously the easiest change to make so they're making it first, even if it's not the most important change overall. I'd like to see scaling become a lot better for the south meta as well. I'm thinking the soldier readiness bar that Anet is so insistent on keeping actually represent the strength of the united legions NPCs to the point that when it is full and the rewards are gone, the NPCs will actually be able to push all the way to the north meta even without players helping and then leave the map stuck on north meta instead of dead at south.

  • ShadowCatz.8437ShadowCatz.8437 Member ✭✭✭

    This DWC map is too long as a south to north meta. It needs to be cut up in manageable pieces where (A) player can join up without planning to do a amp wide meta for several hours. (B) Change how much mobs there are around - too many and worse it those leeching mobs where you can't cleanse, dodge or do anything but to kill those in time and with 6 doing leeching it is not possible to kill them fast enough.

  • Zaoda.1653Zaoda.1653 Member ✭✭✭

    This will definitely be one of the best Quality Of Life updates for sure - I occasionally missed out on chests because of travelling all over the map. This is going to be great!

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zaoda.1653 said:
    This will definitely be one of the best Quality Of Life updates for sure - I occasionally missed out on chests because of travelling all over the map. This is going to be great!

    You will still need to travel around for the shards of jormag blood tho.

  • @Lamont.5973 said:

    @Raizel Silverius.6430 said:
    @Fire Attunement.9835
    I'm ok with any of the changes but please FIX THE MULTI LOOT that A LOT of people are exploiting the hell out of for Otter Blessings as well as the Gifts. I was really disappointed when people told me you can actually multi loot the giant chest after defeating the Claw of Jormag in Drizzlewood Coast North Meta.

    Totally unfair for some of us who only loot said chest ONCE every meta. Basically by-passing the necessary amount of times you need to complete the meta to finish the Otter Achievement.

    I really doubt that is an exploit. You can not enter the map with any character if you did not have a character present at the end of the meta. And you only have 5 minutes before the primary chest disappears so you are limited in the number of extra characters you can use. That's pretty specific programing decisions there that seems intentionally designed to allow multi-looting on a limited basis. Given loading times you can maybe get 8 toons into the map if you are only doing the main chest and skipping the others. So an account like I have with 70 characters has little advantage over an account with only a half dozen or so. I was avoiding the multi-looting too, thinking it might be an exploit, until I realized the limitations they had put on it and it became obvious that it was an intentional design choice. Of course, that may change with this change since all the chests will be right together and you will not have to choose between extra otters or extra loot from the other chests. being able to multi loot 25 chests instead of 1 would be rather over the top.

    Seems like a weird design choice when you could just make the amount of memories required 50 instead of 320 and not allow multi-loot.

  • Solene.3067Solene.3067 Member ✭✭
    edited August 9, 2020

    @Andy.5981 said:
    There are people taking advantage of Multi-loot. One person whom I know definitely did so. It needs sorting.

    This change does nothing to sort out the problems the map has.

    I've lost count how many maps / groups I've tried to join advertised on LFG - nope map full.

    I've lost count on how many maps three or four of us have attempted the escort events to capture the mine and the overlook - failing during the capture phase due to the amount/toughness of the enemy.

    It went from a map that you could join quite easily and on occasion one where the map was nearly done, to a map where you are only going to end up on a dead one. I've just spent 30 minutes trying to get onto an active map. No chance. So that has eaten into 30 minutes of my playtime. The maps I was on? Dead.

    You need to loosen the restrictions on joining active maps.

    You need to make the enemy scale proportionately to the number of players trying to do the events. They don't at the moment.

    A lot of people have commented on the forums that they're only going to run through the story and that is it, they're never going to go there again.

    You have taken something that was fun and basically killed it for a lot of players. Remember what this game is supposed to be.

    In my opinion this is a good summary about the negative aspects and shortcomings of this map. This update alone will not solve the problems of the map. Yesterday I did this meta a third time and I was glad to log off when it was over. Rewards and loot will not solve the problem. I was only doing it again because of the mastery point for doing it 10 times but the best solution is probably to simply ignore it. Maybe I will just ignore the rest of the Icebrood Saga as well.

    And the basic problem is not only this meta but the game as a whole which has lost strategy and direction. Once it was a creative and innovative game with unique selling points. Today it is a mediocre korean grinder.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2020

    @Acyk.9671 said:
    Adding an actual reward to the WvW reward track would be nice :)

    Add some amount of Shard of Crystallized Blood of Jormag, some Charr commendations , some ..
    This track can be absolutely reworked to make it actial and not for "one day".

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    no, not Shard of Crystallized Blood of Jormag, to prevent some monetization better add tonics ! the name - Tonic of Icebrood Corruption, it is acc bound.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    oh, we not have repeatable Drizzlewood pvp track at all?
    lol. So mind to add some tonics to track is fail :#

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Lamont.5973Lamont.5973 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2020

    @Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

    @Lamont.5973 said:

    @Raizel Silverius.6430 said:
    @Fire Attunement.9835
    I'm ok with any of the changes but please FIX THE MULTI LOOT that A LOT of people are exploiting the hell out of for Otter Blessings as well as the Gifts. I was really disappointed when people told me you can actually multi loot the giant chest after defeating the Claw of Jormag in Drizzlewood Coast North Meta.

    Totally unfair for some of us who only loot said chest ONCE every meta. Basically by-passing the necessary amount of times you need to complete the meta to finish the Otter Achievement.

    I really doubt that is an exploit. You can not enter the map with any character if you did not have a character present at the end of the meta. And you only have 5 minutes before the primary chest disappears so you are limited in the number of extra characters you can use. That's pretty specific programing decisions there that seems intentionally designed to allow multi-looting on a limited basis. Given loading times you can maybe get 8 toons into the map if you are only doing the main chest and skipping the others. So an account like I have with 70 characters has little advantage over an account with only a half dozen or so. I was avoiding the multi-looting too, thinking it might be an exploit, until I realized the limitations they had put on it and it became obvious that it was an intentional design choice. Of course, that may change with this change since all the chests will be right together and you will not have to choose between extra otters or extra loot from the other chests. being able to multi loot 25 chests instead of 1 would be rather over the top.

    Seems like a weird design choice when you could just make the amount of memories required 50 instead of 320 and not allow multi-loot.

    I don't disagree. But my argument was not that it was a good design choice, only that it appears intentional. The parameters are so specific it almost had to be a design choice. Otherwise, why not prevent all other characters from being able to enter? Or, conversely, allow people into maps they had not participated in? Or, as with so many end chests of events, make them only able to be opened once per account per meta. That they specifically allow multiple characters in while blocking accounts that did not participate in the meta from joining seems to say they intended to allow limited multi looting. Although, frankly, I do think the better options, would have been to put an otter in each of the chests at the end so that by participating in the full loot phase you would get about as many per meta as you can currently get from multi looting.

  • TheNecrosanct.4028TheNecrosanct.4028 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2020

    @Lamont.5973 said:

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    Does that mean multiloot will get nerfed too? Good thing I got the otter infusion right in time then as long as it was still available

    That is a good question. It is pretty obvious multilooting was intentional on this map as you could only bring new characters in if one of your characters had been there at the end of the meta and the chest is only available for 5 minutes. But if ALL the lesser chests will be in the same area that does mean and significant amount of loot available beyond just the otters for each character. Maybe they could make it so that all the chest except the main one can only be opened once per meta?

    Who says that's not exactly how it's going to be? The main chest still being there for 5 minutes, for multiloot purposes, but the others only able to be opened once? Personally I assume that's exactly how it's going to be. The change is only the placement of the chests in one area. The post says nothing about changing the nature of the chests (i.e. how many times you can open them) so there's no reason to believe that will change.

    @Raizel Silverius.6430 said:

    I'm ok with any of the changes but please FIX THE MULTI LOOT that A LOT of people are exploiting the hell out of for Otter Blessings as well as the Gifts. I was really disappointed when people told me you can actually multi loot the giant chest after defeating the Claw of Jormag in Drizzlewood Coast North Meta.

    Totally unfair for some of us who only loot said chest ONCE every meta. Basically by-passing the necessary amount of times you need to complete the meta to finish the Otter Achievement.

    How is it unfair if you choose to open the chest only once? You have the option to multiloot like everyone else. The fact that you choose not to is on you and has nothing to do with fairness. Also, asking for a fix suggests multiloot was not intended and is a mistake, while it is more obvious that it was very much intended to work this way.

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

    @Lamont.5973 said:

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    Does that mean multiloot will get nerfed too? Good thing I got the otter infusion right in time then as long as it was still available

    That is a good question. It is pretty obvious multilooting was intentional on this map as you could only bring new characters in if one of your characters had been there at the end of the meta and the chest is only available for 5 minutes. But if ALL the lesser chests will be in the same area that does mean and significant amount of loot available beyond just the otters for each character. Maybe they could make it so that all the chest except the main one can only be opened once per meta?

    Who says that's not exactly how it's going to be? The main chest still being there for 5 minutes, for multiloot purposes, but the others only able to be opened once? Personally I assume that's exactly how it's going to be. The change is only the placement of the chests in one area. The post says nothing about changing the nature of the chests (i.e. how many times you can open them) so there's no reason to believe that will change.

    @Raizel Silverius.6430 said:

    I'm ok with any of the changes but please FIX THE MULTI LOOT that A LOT of people are exploiting the hell out of for Otter Blessings as well as the Gifts. I was really disappointed when people told me you can actually multi loot the giant chest after defeating the Claw of Jormag in Drizzlewood Coast North Meta.

    Totally unfair for some of us who only loot said chest ONCE every meta. Basically by-passing the necessary amount of times you need to complete the meta to finish the Otter Achievement.

    How is it unfair if you choose to open the chest only once? You have the option to multiloot like everyone else. The fact that you choose not to is on you and has nothing to do with fairness. Also, asking for a fix suggests multiloot was not intended and is a mistake, while it is more obvious that it was very much intended to work this way.

    No, I will go with none of these chest will be multi-lootable. It's not the first time they made this possible but with the gift of otter adding to the progression of repeatable traks for clovers I think they close this one. And going hey you could have multi-looted this too so that's your fault not the multi-looters is just a poor defense to any one who didn't abuse/know or even think about it. But if you have an issue with it just be the commander and after killing Jormag kick anyone who goes offline swapping characters so they can't get back to that map otherwise nothing else you can do.

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭

    Please make the mobs despawn after each objective is completed (take down portals, destroy the heavy armoured turrets) etc. Part of the slowdown in the maps is trying to get out of combat. You have about 2/3 of players who manage it and another 1/3 who are stuck with the remaining mobs, and who are now running on foot.

  • Zeivu.3615Zeivu.3615 Member ✭✭✭

    What I don't understand is why they keep cramming party event maps.... Why can't the bosses/events scale with the current player count in the event range?