Add some Elementalist and Ranger spirit to our warriors!

I'd like to see more versatility/utility to warrior

Someone mentioned that Banners have no play usefulness other than location buff, and could add a skill to a planted banner to be more in line with spirits from rangers, and I think that could be a wonderful idea, but would need filler skills/effects/CDs that would make banner play useful in more than just stat buffs. Could see banners have their aoe effects maybe like Charge, Quichness/Alac/Protection/Condi cleanse/Regen and perhaps Fear for battle standard.

And regarding the idea of a warrior being a master of arms/quick hands and ability to deal with situations via their weapon skills, seems to me Elementalist would be a great inspiration to look at. Give Warrior 2 more weapon slots that could be seen as secondary sets accessible through F3 and F4 keys, much like Elementalist element swap, only Warrior would be some weapons.

So this could look like a Warrior could have something like this:Greatsword & Sword/Shield with F3 Rifle and F4 axe/axe offhand

doing a weapon swap could bring you back to your last non F-skill weapon set, so if you were on GS, used rifle with F3 weap swap would bring you back to GS, normal weap swap would bring you in Sword/Shield

What are your thoughts?

The idea for this is to see a Master of arms in the Warrior Class, as Elementalist is a master of the elements, by adding some extra possible gameplay like kits/element swap without needing to add kits. Yes, it means Warrior would probably always have shield as Baseline and also probably 1 ranged option which is very lacking atm.

Banners are dull as hell and not used in any active way, while spirits are close, the extra utility skill on them is a nice touch, and Something similar could be done with warrior, I'm thinking it could work like a shout within banner aoe.

As much as I wish for a banner change...having 4 sets of weapon would be op as fuck. It's clearly never gonna happen.

Some things that could be implemented in my opinion (and bring some quality of life):

• Reduce utility banners casting to 0.5s and have them appear directly on your current location
• When summoning a banner, the skill is replaced by a skill depending on the banner with a 30s cooldown. That skills would activate quickly and automatically teleprort the banner to your current location. Additionnal effect depending on banner may be an option.
• Battle standard would not have this option and have his cooldown reduce to 120s (picking up no longer available)
• Picking up the banner to refresh cooldown would no longer be an option (the 80s cooldown would still be in progress while the new skill is shown)
• Modify oubled standards: Instead of granting you swiftness, grant boon depending on banner upon summoning and relocation
• Remove boons granted by battle standard to a unique effect that actually benefits from doubled standards and bring something new to meta

The moment when you realize warrior has 0 damage utilities in pvpand more then 20 of them are status buffs that either makes warrior deal more damage or take less damage, without 0 changes in game playfunny how you can deselect all utility slots and still play like before while other meta builds of other classes are defined by utilities

@Lametoile.7394 said:As much as I wish for a banner change...having 4 sets of weapon would be op as kitten. It's clearly never gonna happen.

Yet, this is indeed what we see with Ele, but with elements instead. Would be curious as to see how signets would fit in this.

As for the Banner on movement...makes me think of Venrati bubble.

@Aveigel.2601 said:I'd like to see more versatility/utility to warrior

Someone mentioned that Banners have no play usefulness other than location buff, and could add a skill to a planted banner to be more in line with spirits from rangers, and I think that could be a wonderful idea, but would need filler skills/effects/CDs that would make banner play useful in more than just stat buffs. Could see banners have their aoe effects maybe like Charge, Quichness/Alac/Protection/Condi cleanse/Regen and perhaps Fear for battle standard.

And regarding the idea of a warrior being a master of arms/quick hands and ability to deal with situations via their weapon skills, seems to me Elementalist would be a great inspiration to look at. Give Warrior 2 more weapon slots that could be seen as secondary sets accessible through F3 and F4 keys, much like Elementalist element swap, only Warrior would be some weapons.

So this could look like a Warrior could have something like this:Greatsword & Sword/Shield with F3 Rifle and F4 axe/axe offhand

doing a weapon swap could bring you back to your last non F-skill weapon set, so if you were on GS, used rifle with F3 weap swap would bring you back to GS, normal weap swap would bring you in Sword/Shield

What are your thoughts?

We had banners as bundles with skills, one of which was an AoE boon specific to the banner. They removed all of them instead of revamping them to make them better. You will not get them or a better version back.

it's quite sad that you comment this way, but it shows how people feel and what they believe what may come of the game if the same type of thinking continues to occur, which is precisely why I started this thread, to get away from that kind of attitude of people's assessment of "what will probably happen" towards a "what 'd like to see in the game".

@"Aveigel.2601" said:it's quite sad that you comment this way, but it shows how people feel and what they believe what may come of the game if the same type of thinking continues to occur, which is precisely why I started this thread, to get away from that kind of attitude of people's assessment of "what will probably happen" towards a "what 'd like to see in the game".

It's more of we had something useful that could have been developed into something amazing but because raiders got annoyed with it Anet ruined it.

Let me get this straight: bs is already highly requested in high end PvE, to the point that warriors almost always have a dedicated team slot for them to get their buffs. And that power is not enough for you and you want banners to become even more required than they already are?

Don't really agree with that.

The other suggestion to give warriors additional weapon slots would add so much power to warrior that all their weapon skills would need to get nerfed heavily to compensate. Don't know if you would really be satisfied with all your weapon skills getting their damage nerfed by like 40%.

@Kodama.6453 said:Let me get this straight: bs is already highly requested in high end PvE, to the point that warriors almost always have a dedicated team slot for them to get their buffs. And that power is not enough for you and you want banners to become even more required than they already are?

Don't really agree with that.

The other suggestion to give warriors additional weapon slots would add so much power to warrior that all their weapon skills would need to get nerfed heavily to compensate. Don't know if you would really be satisfied with all your weapon skills getting their damage nerfed by like 40%.

The weapon skills already got nerfed heavy :tongue: and no we are not happy with them haven been nerfed.

The issue with the past few threads are that banners are boring as fck to play with. We had bundle skills for them originally, that were okay and really needed a QoL update to them, instead they gutted banners entirely, but even gutted banners are wanted by the care bears 'cause stats are king.

@Kodama.6453 said:Let me get this straight: bs is already highly requested in high end PvE, to the point that warriors almost always have a dedicated team slot for them to get their buffs. And that power is not enough for you and you want banners to become even more required than they already are?

Don't really agree with that.

The other suggestion to give warriors additional weapon slots would add so much power to warrior that all their weapon skills would need to get nerfed heavily to compensate. Don't know if you would really be satisfied with all your weapon skills getting their damage nerfed by like 40%.

Yeah because it's requested by others doesn't mean it's enjoyable to play which is the whole point of the banner discussion, it sucks for gameplay experience. 9/10 people in a raid will enjoy having banners around, while the class that has skill slots dedicated to them doesn't. Makes sense right?

As for weapons adding too much power? I really fail to see how that would be possible given that Warrior is behind in dps benchmarks with their current best weapon sets, at best it might improve a little bit by adding more complexity to their rotation, which is what we see with engi.

Don't see anything wrong with looking at other classes and wondering if some of their mechanics could be flavored to Warrior and address some game play issues the class has.

at least it would keep a Warrior feeling to it, and not become a engi/thief trapper hybrid who doesn't feel like a warrior but an Engi or Thief variant in heavy armor.

@Aveigel.2601 said:

@"Kodama.6453" said:Let me get this straight: bs is already highly requested in high end PvE, to the point that warriors almost always have a dedicated team slot for them to get their buffs. And that power is not enough for you and you want banners to become even more required than they already are?

Don't really agree with that.

The other suggestion to give warriors additional weapon slots would add so much power to warrior that all their weapon skills would need to get nerfed

heavily

to compensate. Don't know if you would really be satisfied with all your weapon skills getting their damage nerfed by like 40%.

Condition berserkers benchmark is 37k dps. That is not really "far behind", it is actually pretty good.So I don't know why you think warriors are in such a disadvantage when it comes to benchmarks.

Also giving warrior 2 additional weapon slots definitely would add alot of power. There is less downtime between hard hitting skills, they can do the same what engineer is currently doing by just swapping to a weapon, use all the hard hitters, then switch to the next.And engineer definitely has weaker weapons compared to other classes exactly because of the ability to do that.There is no way that you are getting this feature without heavy handed nerfs to your weapons across the board, that is just being realistic.

I get your point that banners are not really enjoyable for the warrior player, tho.Yes, they might change them again. But then they would, again, have to trade some power away for it. Banners are already required, adding more power to them without taking some away doesn't sound like a great idea.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Aveigel.2601 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:Let me get this straight: bs is already highly requested in high end PvE, to the point that warriors almost always have a dedicated team slot for them to get their buffs. And that power is not enough for you and you want banners to become even more required than they already are?

Don't really agree with that.

The other suggestion to give warriors additional weapon slots would add so much power to warrior that all their weapon skills would need to get nerfed

heavily

to compensate. Don't know if you would really be satisfied with all your weapon skills getting their damage nerfed by like 40%.

Agreed, warrior banners needs some redesign to make them rewarding to use them.

The thing about Warrior is not just banners though.Banners are used in pve group play only, which excludes pvp, WvW and solo PvE playWarrior has no damaging utlities or Elites (yeah Rampage is no good, it used to be something with CC damage, now it pales vs Necro shroud)That leaves dps currently only in weapons damage vs most classes who have damaging utilities or kits.

Warrior have no real damaging free cast skills and the only lasting aoe dmg fields they have are Berserker longbow burst and torch field. Nothing for Power spec/Core or SB

Now back to the reason of the original post was to add some effects that might enhance gameplay, the Banner idea was to have potential usage in situations other than pve group buff vs static Ai, give it some potential usage for pvp/WvW by having some additional effects not currently found on Warrior like aoe weakness, maybe aoe condi dmg reduce, whatever that could help it in current meta (tbd).

As for the weapon part I think it should be tested/make scenarios to know the actual range of what you could encounter/do. Please elaborate your thoughts so that actual debates may occur, we need more than just "feeling something" to create a valid scenario where this is appropriately thought on.

@"Aveigel.2601" said:The thing about Warrior is not just banners though.Banners are used in pve group play only, which excludes pvp, WvW and solo PvE playWarrior has no damaging utlities or Elites (yeah Rampage is no good, it used to be something with CC damage, now it pales vs Necro shroud)That leaves dps currently only in weapons damage vs most classes who have damaging utilities or kits.Well, There IS Sundering Leap and Shattering Blow...Warrior have no real damaging free cast skills and the only lasting aoe dmg fields they have are Berserker longbow burst and torch field. Nothing for Power spec/Core or SBThere is Core Longbow F1, but only that. There used to be a lightening field in SB, but that changed with WoD.

Warrior was never meant to be the supplier of fields, but the one to load up on finishers.

Now back to the reason of the original post was to add some effects that might enhance gameplay, the Banner idea was to have potential usage in situations other than pve group buff vs static Ai, give it some potential usage for pvp/WvW by having some additional effects not currently found on Warrior like aoe weakness, maybe aoe condi dmg reduce, whatever that could help it in current meta (tbd).People have recommended that Banners get planted on the back of the warrior. That way they at least move with the warrior and become viable for Competitive play. Another way to work them then would be to toggle a flip over skill to do things like break stuns, give boons, or a small heal depending on the banner equipped.As for the weapon part I think it should be tested/make scenarios to know the actual range of what you could encounter/do. Please elaborate your thoughts so that actual debates may occur, we need more than just "feeling something" to create a valid scenario where this is appropriately thought on.While another weapon set would be cool, that would require UI changes not just to the HUD but to the Hero panel and equipment templates, so no that will not happen. Ever.

Yet the pistol spec announced with power or condi leads me to think that maybe some simple option could be possible without a different UI change, something more in the lines of ranger pet selection, meaning no extra runes/different stats for those weapons but keeping the sigil/stat set of the weapon set in use when those weapons would be in use.

I kind of like the idea of taking advantage combo fields, but in practice, it just doesn't cut it

@Aveigel.2601 said:Yet the pistol spec announced with power or condi leads me to think that maybe some simple option could be possible without a different UI change, something more in the lines of ranger pet selection, meaning no extra runes/different stats for those weapons but keeping the sigil/stat set of the weapon set in use when those weapons would be in use.

Pistol spec announced? Did I miss something, is it already confirmed that the next warrior elite spec will get pistols?

Banners are always a tricky subject because they are so essential to warriors being included in a lot of Meta.Three possibly changes to these are:

Revert back to Old Banners where they were interactable bundles (Warrior Only, similar to Engie's Turrets)

This would bring back the old style of banners that some people liked. It also prevents grieving because people can't run away with them. I'd say that skill 5 should be a "stow" skill to reduce CD.

Iffy about this one because it makes them clunkier than current.

2. Make the banners "wearable" (Move with Warrior)

This would be the most ideal, but it would have to remove the CD reduction. It makes near 100% uptime tricker to achieve, but at least makes the banners moveable so you can more readily bring them around in Open World. I feel this conflicts a little with Signets. Signets are already fairly.... meh as a skill in the game. And if the Banner moves with you, most people would forgo the Signet equivalent.

3. Banner is now effectively a kit.

It'd be kind of cool if warriors get "land spears" via this one. The downside is that only 1 banner can be equipped at a time, meaning Bannerslave is not really much of a thing anymore. I'd suggest a tradeoff:

• Banner of Strength + Precision = Banner of Power: Provides Ferocity & Power. Power based attacks (Comparable to Axe/Greatsword). No Duration, CD upon Stowing.
• Banner of Tactics + Defense = Banner of Defense: Provides Concentration & Toughness/Vit (Warhorn, Shield). No Duration, CD upon Stowing.
• Banner of Discipline + Revamp = Banner of Malice: Provides Crit, Expertise & Condi. Condition based attacks (Sword/Torch).No Duration, CD upon Stowing.
• Battle Standard + Rampage = Banner of War: Provide boosts from all 3 banners, transforms user into juggernaught. AOE Skills. Duration Based.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@"Aveigel.2601" said:Yet the pistol spec announced with power or condi leads me to think that maybe some simple option could be possible without a different UI change, something more in the lines of ranger pet selection, meaning no extra runes/different stats for those weapons but keeping the sigil/stat set of the weapon set in use when those weapons would be in use.

ok probably me jumping the gun with this guy's thread https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/112748/elite-warrior-spec-the-enforcer-pistol-finally-added-traits#latestI just could see them doing something like this as it smells of Warrior abandon

If they made Banner a Kit, I'd like to see a "Charge" ability on War Banner

@"Aveigel.2601" said:If they made Banner a Kit, I'd like to see a "Charge" ability on War Banner

That was on the old kits. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banner.

Depending on the banner we had AoE Fury, Sprint, Stability, Regeneration, and Healing.

by charge I mean like the warhorn skill, no the movement one :)

@"Aveigel.2601" said:by charge I mean like the warhorn skill, no the movement one :)

See my link to the Banner page. It has the old bundle skills there. There is an AoE sprint ability which is pretty much pre rework charge. Now if said bundles had buffs like "Allies deal +20% damage for the next 6s" on a 15s CD, then sure. But such changes were discussed on the forums and requested. Sadly Anet does not read the profession subforums, so they never got noticed.

@Aveigel.2601 said:

@Lametoile.7394 said:As much as I wish for a banner change...having 4 sets of weapon would be op as kitten. It's clearly never gonna happen.

Never , ever, never ever , NEVER do I want to see our banners work like Ventari Rev.

That has to be the absolute worst and most clunky design I have seen.

Thus why it's rarely used........

I dont even want banners to be meta in wvw, they are way too passive and i see no world were banners, thematically, work in an active way... After all, banners are something ppl look at, nothing that you actively use for a fight, like wrapping and immobalizing your foe in it.

Ps, giving warriors 3 or even 4 weapon sets in wvw/pvp would be bonkers, a balance nightmare and so much hate from all the other classes, with even more need for disciplines fast hands, because with 3 or 4 weapons you would absolutely need those 5s swaps... Pigeonholing at its best.