This game is STILL using DX9?

I just learnt that the game is using DX9 still, which explains a lot about the poor optimization?Im just wondering why with new content releases in 2020 there has not been an improvement to the platform performance that went with them?

If you so desire, you can look up the Dev response to that query in the archived Guild Wars 2 forum.

Good luck.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/110553/want-to-use-directx-12-dx12-for-gw2-heres-a-guide-on-using-the-d912pxy-on-windows-10#latest

@"StainedSilva.1726" said:I just learnt that the game is using DX9 still, which explains a lot about the poor optimization?Im just wondering why with new content releases in 2020 there has not been an improvement to the platform performance that went with them?

Because GW2 is an ageing game, and to "update" the API to something newer, means building a new game engine, as GW2 used their own in house game engine from GW1 with some modifications, as such it was a very old engine, and not being a 3rd party engine, that means anet would have to do all the work, while 3rd party engines, it's all done for you and some are very easy to port over to newer versions. So that means designing a new engine, or buying a license for a 3rd part engine that supports a newer graphics API like DX12 etc and then making that new update in that engine. That doesn't even get into porting over all the older parts of the game to that newer engine/API.

This comes down to a ROI, an API and engine swap/update for a game might make sense for something like WoW, or a newer game, but for something like GW2, the cost involved would do almost nothing for new income, as it's not going to attract huge new player bases. The effort and money they would be better off putting into GW3 if there is such a thing coming.

@StainedSilva.1726 said:I just learnt that the game is using DX9 still, which explains a lot about the poor optimization?It actually does not. The game would not run better in DX11 and would only run better in some scenarios in DX12.

What causes some of the performance issues is how the game handles draw calls. But this can not be called poor optimization as other ways of handling draw calls would cause other issues. D912PXY reorganizes draw calls, but doing so kills a lot of GPU performance (more than 20%) and requires some extensive shader compiling causing graphics glitches. That's not necessary something you can call a polished product ready for shipment to a big number of customers.

Other performance issues are simply a result of the huge amount of game logic in large scale fights. This would not improve under DX12.

@KrHome.1920 said:

@"StainedSilva.1726" said:I just learnt that the game is using DX9 still, which explains a lot about the poor optimization?It actually does not. The game would not run better in DX11 and would only run better in some scenarios in DX12.

Dx912pxy seems to off-load some CPU cycles over to the GPU. So your GPU usage does go up (around 10-20% like you say) but your CPU usage goes down (around 20% is what I see when doing comparisons). I did several comparisons when I first installed the program to see if I could notice any difference.

Generally this game is CPU bound, so leveraging GPU power to free up CPU power is a pretty good trade off in nearly all scenarios. I had a hard time finding any scenario that yielded worse FPS results using d912pxy.

I find it pretty impressive that a DX12 ad-hoc program can have descent results with the only drawback being 1-2 minute shader compiling upon first launch, and strange character portraits on the character select screen.

Especially when my initial reaction when I first read about d912pxy was a solid "Pfttththhh!".

@KrHome.1920 said:

@"StainedSilva.1726" said:I just learnt that the game is using DX9 still, which explains a lot about the poor optimization?It actually does not. The game would not run better in DX11 and would only run better in some scenarios in DX12.

The d912pxy does not "kill a lot a GPU performance", more than 20%" I'm not sure where you're pulling these arbitrary figures from.The majority of people using the d912pxy report performance gains, including myself. The d912pxy uses asynchronous shader compilation in the pipeline. Using the pre compiled shader cache with pso set to 1 in the config file will stop you from having to wait for shaders to load in. The only glitches atm are due to the change in the depth stencil buffer that occurred in the last game patch. In the Gw2 development channels dsnider (anet gw2 game dev) confirmed the fix will make its way into the next patch. To the original OP, you can get informed technical info by joining the Gw2 discord channel and get a large feedback base from users of the d912pxy. Ultimately try it for yourself as performance varies depending on individual hardware setups.

@"Mack.3045" said:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/110553/want-to-use-directx-12-dx12-for-gw2-heres-a-guide-on-using-the-d912pxy-on-windows-10#latest

Any such program for those of us still on Windows 7 with DirectX 11 cards? No access to DirectX 12 for us.

@Jagblade.4627 said:

@"Mack.3045" said:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/110553/want-to-use-directx-12-dx12-for-gw2-heres-a-guide-on-using-the-d912pxy-on-windows-10#latest

Here is a list which GPU from nvidia that support DX12: https://www.geforce.co.uk/hardware/technology/dx12/supported-gpusWhich GPU do you have that only at most support DX11? My own GTX 970 seem to be DX12 list, so your GPU must be really old if it s not that list from nvidia.

Here is an article that both explains what DX12 is meant to do compared with earlier versions of DX. It also list how nvidia and AMD line of GPU support these changes.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/207598-demystifying-directx-12-support-what-amd-intel-and-nvidia-do-and-dont-deliver

@StainedSilva.1726 said:I just learnt that the game is using DX9 still, which explains a lot about the poor optimization?Im just wondering why with new content releases in 2020 there has not been an improvement to the platform performance that went with them?

You are aware that DX 9 only means that all hardware is expected to support this game as during DX 8 up to DX 9 software that use GPU where required to follow specific way to use GPU? DirectX is Microsoft bundle of tools for handling in and out calls on Windows systems.

So what you are claiming is that ANet and NCsoft Inc. should magically optimize an MMO to the latest and greatest DX 12 and all problem should have been solved? If you look to Battlefield which have been very fast at adapting to new standard and is a multiplayer game which need to have a certain level of performance as it is built on multiple player fighting each other. When they added RayTracing in their game it did take a lot of work to get it there, so taking into account how much work we actually are talking about for GW2 and its system (and with how the infrastructure of servers work from players to server and internally from log in, trade and instanced game play which also need to allocate server power), we can not even imagine how this optimization should role out.

Zenimax's ESO tried to get better performance as they also got over time more of the same type of issues like we have on some maps with skills that doesn't respond, maps that suddenly stutter when there is a large group of player on it. ESO came a couple year after GW2, but both game have had similar issues with performance both in PvE maps and in open world PvP (WvW/Cyrodiil).

Complaining about DX 9 and to think it would be better to go with DX 12 is not to understand that is much more complex issues underlying how MMO works and that there is limit for how efficient one can make each clients workload (as part of problems are to keep actions synchronized between multiple clients and servers that dynamically adjust loads). On the positive side we don't have to stare at loadscreen in this game for minutes as in ESO before we can do anything.

@"ShadowCatz.8437" said:So what you are claiming is that ANet and NCsoft Inc. should magically optimize an MMO to the latest and greatest DX 12 and all problem should have been solved?

Errr, pretty sure that's not what he said, lol. That is a fabulous example of a strawman argument though. Should link that to the wikipedia definition.

ESO's main issue is that the game has no cooldowns on any skills, which leads to an unprecedented level of skill spam (specifically highly taxing AoE skill spam). In fact starting August 24th they are "testing" global AoE cooldowns in their WvW area just to confirm what we already know, that AoE spam causes massive server-side calculations that bring the game to its knees.

@Jagblade.4627 said:

@"Mack.3045" said:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/110553/want-to-use-directx-12-dx12-for-gw2-heres-a-guide-on-using-the-d912pxy-on-windows-10#latest

There is a patch for Windows 7 for the d912pxy. What GPU are you using?

https://github.com/megai2/d912pxy/wiki/Installing

@ShadowCatz.8437 said:

@Jagblade.4627 said:

@"Mack.3045" said:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/110553/want-to-use-directx-12-dx12-for-gw2-heres-a-guide-on-using-the-d912pxy-on-windows-10#latest

Huh, I wasn't aware that the 970 was actually capable of DX12. Good to know!