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Firebrand is dead because they killed Mantra of Solace


GuriGashi.5617

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The title is self explainatory.

First Charges: 299HP self heal + what you get from Pure Of Heart through Aegis Shatter on Menders

Final Charge: 4,300HP self heal, on a 30 second cooldown with a 2,75 second cast time on Menders.

It‘s a joke consindering that in most fights you as a Firebrand are considered the number 1 target. Yes kiting is a thing, but the viability of a spec shouldn‘t be open only to experienced players. This overnerfed version of our literal heal skill is the sole reason why Firebrand dropped out of the meta

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They also killed elite mantra and mantra of truth. The only mantra worth using in sPvP now is the cleanse mantra. We are stuck the garbage heal mantra in sPvP, since outside LoW healing skills are beyond terrible (and LoW needs mediation which you will not use with FB). FB is still sPvP viable, but there are far better builds, and none of them are guardian. If you are really into sPvP nowadays play necro, rev or engi. Do not waste your time playing guardian.

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@ASP.8093 said:To clarify: you mean the SPvP meta?

Yes, it‘s just sad to watch. It is frustrating that once we cast the final charge, we won‘t have a heal skill up until the teamfight ends and we get a peaceful moment to recast a 2,75 second cast time skill without being CC‘d. It was all okay as long as the smaller charges healed for a substantial amount, so we didn’t have to cast the final charge so early, but 299 HP heal on Menders amulet with a ~10 second cooldown forces us to do that and I consider that a really bad a joke. Of course a spec will drop icecold out of the competitive meta if it can use it‘s heal skill only once during a teamfight

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@Hannelore.8153 said:If only you had other ways to heal yourself that weren't dependant on the #6 healskill.

February Patch nerfed every tome with exception of the Tome of Courage into uselessness for competitive play. This is why Firebrand is played less at the moment than core Guardian, despite the core variant offering less support for the team

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@Hannelore.8153 said:If only you had other ways to heal yourself that weren't dependent on the #6 heal skill.

Actually with the nerfing on the Tomes over the various balance patches and the changes they have done to some the Mantra's (particularly Solace as of March which they did not reduce the Mesmer's healing mantra's healing output at all by comparison) unless your running as totally supportive build FB with Mender's , Sage's or maybe Marshall's Amulet with Rune of Flock and the appropriate trait's, weapons etc your pretty wasting your time even bothering with the Mantra's (I quit using them a while ago and just go with Meditations but to be honest I gave up on FB and went to Core Guardian after the Solace hit anyway ).They should have lowered the healing output on all of the FB skills (both Tomes and Mantras) but given the FB access to Barrier instead but they missed that opportunity , it could have decreased the over powering that some of the existing Guardian traits had when used with the various FB skills that lead to the nerfing that they had to do in later balance patches, they could even have gone so far as to have a Minor trait in the FB line that lowers any of the healing you give but gives out a somewhat better amount of Barrier instead as compensation.

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@Hannelore.8153 said:If only you had other ways to heal yourself that weren't dependant on the #6 healskill.

There are multiple issues.

First, none of the other heal skills are worth using at all. Solace, heal trap and LoW are the only heals worth using in any game mode. The others are beyond garbage. LoW needs mediation. Trap needs DH. So we are stuck with solace.

Second, since the heal itself does no healing, you are super dependent on honor. But the does not heal for much. ToR healing is okayish only if you can break line of sight. If you cannot you must be using menders to even heal out coming damage. There is a reason sage went from a good option to an unuseble option. That plus that sage damage relied on mantra of of truth for cover condis.

How about the third charge? If you constantly have to use the last charge of mantra, it is not worth using. 30 sec CD + 2.75 cast. Enemies have to be blind for this to work.

Lastly, since nearly all healing options outside honor are dead, FB is relying on dodge and aegis to heal, and menders to even make it worth it. The symbol damage, contrary to the myth, is weak. If it was not, core power guardian will dominate and it is not. It sure as shit does not work with menders.

Spamming aegis and boons from ToC is not enough for a build to be good. It is still somewhat viable, but not really worth it. And all damage FB options are dead. Like DH and core.

Sadly, all what was needed on both truth and solace is just longer CD. And most of their issues would have been solved, but Anet devs, CMC specifically dunno what the fuck they are doing, lately.

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@otto.5684 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:If only you had other ways to heal yourself that weren't dependant on the #6 healskill.

There are multiple issues.

First, none of the other heal skills are worth using at all. Solace, heal trap and LoW are the only heals worth using in any game mode. The others are beyond garbage. LoW needs mediation. Trap needs DH. So we are stuck with solace.

Second, since the heal itself does no healing, you are super dependent on honor. But the does not heal for much. ToR healing is okayish only if you can break line of sight. If you cannot you must be using menders to even heal out coming damage. There is a reason sage went from a good option to an unuseble option. That plus that sage damage relied on mantra of of truth for cover condis.

How about the third charge? If you constantly have to use the last charge of mantra, it is not worth using. 30 sec CD + 2.75 cast. Enemies have to be blind for this to work.

Lastly, since nearly all healing options outside honor are dead, FB is relying on dodge and aegis to heal, and menders to even make it worth it. The symbol damage, contrary to the myth, is weak. If it was not, core power guardian will dominate and it is not. It sure as kitten does not work with menders.

Spamming aegis and boons from ToC is not enough for a build to be good. It is still somewhat viable, but not really worth it. And all damage FB options are dead. Like DH and core.

Sadly, all what was needed on both truth and solace is just longer CD. And most of their issues would have been solved, but Anet devs, CMC specifically dunno what the kitten they are doing, lately.

I'm not sure what players expected. Firebrand has its time, it dominated all game modes and was the go-to class for everything, and you're right that the devs just don't know how to bring it in line, so we get blanket nerfs with no real purpose nor reward.

This wouldn't happen if we had a completely dedicated balance & design team, but we don't.

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Warrior's cunning exists.

Mantra of Solace is not the only heal available to a Firebrand

If you say Firebrand is so underpowered, it is mainly because necros are so common , not so much that guardians are weak. (see WvW)

Blocking an attack with aegis and healing from traited pure of heart counts as healing.

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@Infusion.7149 said:

  1. Warrior's cunning exists.
  2. Mantra of Solace is not the only heal available to a Firebrand
  3. If you say Firebrand is so underpowered, it is mainly because necros are so common , not so much that guardians are weak. (see WvW)
  4. Blocking an attack with aegis and healing from traited pure of heart counts as healing.

Mantra of Solace is the only viable healing for FB. The other alternatives are... trash. Solace is the best of terrible heal skills available to FB.

Necros were always common, and yet FB was meta before it is not now in sPvP. WvW is a dumbster Fire. No valuable balance discussion can be made around it.

And the honor heals were always the same. They are not a factor.

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@Infusion.7149 said:

  1. Warrior's cunning exists.
  2. Mantra of Solace is not the only heal available to a Firebrand
  3. If you say Firebrand is so underpowered, it is mainly because necros are so common , not so much that guardians are weak. (see WvW)
  4. Blocking an attack with aegis and healing from traited pure of heart counts as healing.

saddly your an engineer(or a necro), so you dont have a clue about firebrand. Solace was good heal which was destroyed, now only option to choose is the crappy heal with block.

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@LucianDK.8615 said:Firebrand needed to be downsized, just way too powerful in far too many modes.

The thing is I am okay with all the damage, tome heal and book duration nerfs Firebrand received, what I am asking for is giving us just our heal skill back, because it is one thing nerfing a spec to make it go along with the rest of the meta, but nerfing it to being unplayable, because of said Matra issues goes too far. And when we consider all the heals tempests can ditch out actively and to team mates asking for Pre February Patch Mantra of Solace while keeping all the other skills as they are just for us to be able to make it through a team fights isn‘t too much to ask for. People are still buying PoF, are happy to try out their new Firebrand spec just to see unless you play at a very high level you get absolutely destroyed isn‘t really a meta we should aspire to have

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It's so weak that its used in the April , May , June, July 2020 monthly AT. The change has been since March 4, 2020 , so either you don't play often in PVP/WVW or you are misinformed and actually some things external to firebrand were overbuffed. I'm inclined to believe the latter.

April:

May:
June:
July:

P.S. I play Firebrand daily.

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Sure my man, I rather think that you should start playing PvP before making such assumptions, since picking Firebrand „daily“ over Core Guard in this enviroment isn’t really much speaking in favour of you. Also no, posting screenshots of a few top Firebrands won’t make the spec more viable for casual players, plus then how about we compare the results of teams who ran Tempest with teams who ran Firebrand during the last AT‘s? How viable would Firebrand look then to you? What is even more funny is that MightyTeapot says the exact same thing about Firebrand, literally where you got your screenshots from.Facts still stand - if you run Firebrand, you have your heal skill up once or twice at max during a teamfight and get pretty much farmed right after, since mobility on Guard is at 0, which makes effective kiting more problematic.Also I am not saying the Solace nerf happened in February, I am talking about ArenaNet’s agenda to bring all modifiers down, which started by February and I welcome. I just want our old healing skill back.

I think constantly placing plat or better is enough for me to be able to talk about a weakness of the spec, alot of casual players maybe don’t see, such as this issue of basically having one bad heal through the game mechanic that Mantras come with

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@DonNee.5128 said:ye 1 tier below nade holo and tempest makes this spec absolutely dead

2 and #3 team ran fb, but because #1 team ran tempest it means that fb is unviable

I think there is a misunderstanding of the issue. FB was viable as non-support before, now menders support is the only option. Why cannot FB, and guardian in general, have more than 1 build (which is support) viable? And support queing solo is always a bad idea. If your allies are not good there is nothing to support, so you are obsolete.

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@"otto.5684" saidI think there is a misunderstanding of the issue. FB was viable as non-support before, now menders support is the only option. Why cannot FB, and guardian in general, have more than 1 build (which is support) viable? And support queing solo is always a bad idea. If your allies are not good there is nothing to support, so you are obsoleteThis exactly the issue at hand that some people either are unaware or refuse to recognize and it doesn't only apply to FB , in that any class be it core or elite that is left as it's only viable build option is as a support class isn't truly viable in competitive pvp in solo que , yes it can compete in AT's but those aren't random players being put together on a team so there really isn't a honest comparison so using it to support an argument that the class is balanced in anyway in competitive pvp is flawed. Support builds while being useful are woefully dependent on the make up of the rest of their team and how well their team work is with a bunch of random players thrown together for a match isn't often the greatest and those leaving the support build player as was said by Otto nothing to support.It is important to repeat the point that it is not only an issue for the FB but that any class that is left in such way that it's "only viable build" for competitive solo PvP is support needs to be revisited!

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@"mindcircus.1506" said:There's nothing more indicative of just how far out of touch with reality these forums are than a thread with Firebrands arguing for buffs.

I think this coming from a Shock Aura & Invul & Heal spamming class like Tempest is borderline insane. Sincerely hope they nerf „Wash the Pain away“ as well as your F2 heal, invul durations, Glyph of Renewal and the obnoxious Aura and Boon spam (Prot for example), that is ruining the game, into oblivion, because at the moment it is Tempest that is beyond destructive to the meta, then I will stop asking for what you call „Firebrand buffs“ when I literally said to keep everything as it is and just give our heal skill back, for the reason that it is a Mantra with 2,75 seconds cast time and is in conjunction with „Pure of Heart“ necessary to run as Firebrand to simply sustain yourself especially considering that I want the rest of the heal modifiers to stay nerfed on the spec.Being Top 35 on the European ladder and asking for the return of ONE skill that would be required to play the spec as it is intended to, is what you call „out of touch“.How about you play 10 ranked games as a Firebrand with Solace and post your results as screenshot below? I know what would happen. I played the first 2 days of the season as Core Guardian on Menders amulet, even one game with Floody and Adelante, one with Boyce and literally watched Firebrands get farmed in 3 seconds while I had no problems sustaining myself with Meditations such as Litany of Wrath

PvXI2Az.jpg

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@snoow.1694 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:There's nothing more indicative of just how far out of touch with reality these forums are than a thread with Firebrands arguing for buffs.

I think this coming from a Shock Aura & Invul & Heal spamming class like Tempest is borderline insane.

It doesn't matter where it comes from ... it's still true. If people think FB needs buffs, they need to L2P in a hard way.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:There's nothing more indicative of just how far out of touch with reality these forums are than a thread with Firebrands arguing for buffs.

I think this coming from a Shock Aura & Invul & Heal spamming class like Tempest is borderline insane.

It doesn't matter where it comes from ... it's still true. If people think FB needs buffs, they need to L2P in a hard way.

Sorry, I just looked up your name on the leaderboard and it is rude and beyond cocky to tell people „L2P“ when you aren‘t even ranked in sPvP for this and weren’t ranked the last season. Also L2P is the argument people use who have literally no arguments

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@snoow.1694 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:There's nothing more indicative of just how far out of touch with reality these forums are than a thread with Firebrands arguing for buffs.

I think this coming from a Shock Aura & Invul & Heal spamming class like Tempest is borderline insane.

It doesn't matter where it comes from ... it's still true. If people think FB needs buffs, they need to L2P in a hard way.

Sorry, I just looked up your name on the leaderboard and it is rude and beyond cocky to tell people „L2P“ when you aren‘t even ranked in sPvP for this and weren’t ranked the last season. Also L2P is the argument people use who have literally no arguments

Again, you seem to think you can dismiss people's comments based on your assessment of them. That's not going to make your point.

There is an argument here ... this isn't a class deficiency issue, it's a player one ... so Anet doesn't need to fix whatever you think is broken. The 'broken class' is the argument people use who can't play their class. Players need to stop pouting because they can't dominate with a faceroll anymore.

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