No downstate event is the most fun i had in WvW for a very long time.

the event barely started and i am already having fun.

suddenly roaming and hunting parties become viable against larger groups. you can now wreck havoc in unorganized group of player wandering around.outnumbered is possible if not too outnumbered.i was amazed as we successfully pushed a 3 time larger PUG (yes PUG, not organized guild bus but still) bus.

i made other post about WvW balance in the past like, nerfing downed state auto attack, nerfing overall damage was a bad decision, etc..but no downed state just resolve most of the problems.because even if you have a boon ball in front of you, if you kill one player, he is dead. (amazing concept!) instead of getting immediatly rez back and having to put extra effort in killing one.you can still revive dead mates when out of combat anyway.

if i had to make a list of good and bad things:good:■ outnumbered is more possible than before.■ smaller groups have a chance of dealing effective blows to bus.■ boonball meta gets affected as a kill will be a death and not an instant rez.■ roaming and hunting feels more rewarding as you don't have to go in and take extra risk for a finisher.■ works very well with the overall damage reduction and CC damage nerf. downed state is atm too strong as a group mechanic and unbalanced for some calss. having to deal extra damage when a boonball or a larger group is already hard to down... as less builds can destroy people in one seconds, i feel it is fait to get less.■ to kill faster players tend to actually use more power builds than condi builds.■ players naturally tend to play together to increase survivability since they can't abuse the downstate mechanic to win a fight.■ when you die you can quickly come back to the fight insetad of waiting to die while downed. (tho it may cause some slight balance issue when taking on a fort close to the enemy starting base)

bad:■ death of duels. (obsidian sanctuary and edge of the mist should not have that no downstate debuff.)■ less bags. hard to spam 1 on every downed to get the bags. now you need to commit into the fight to earn your bags. (i personnaly don't care about this but i am sure some does!)■ no finisher. anet needs to sell some cool finishers right? either auto enable finisher on death (but that may be a bit problematic in large group fight.)■ resurrection ability are useless... well what if you could use them to actually revive dead people like i other games instead of downedstate?■ less casual friendly. yes i know that downed state (and less overall damage) helps new players alot in trying to survive against veterans. but maybe that would force those who want to commit to WvW to join a WvW guild and learn with a group?

i am always for changes that makes bus less stronger. this event does that without changing much WvW core mechanics or class balance.i am for this event to be permanent. tho i don't know how this may be recieved by the community as there is players who would hate that either because it change the way they would play or becasue they would die too often without coming back to the fight instantly after.or maybe this event could be everyweekend? or every saturday or sunday?

anyway, i am really enjoying this event so far :)

All good and glad you are enjoying the event, but it everything about donstate is against the foundation of gw2 combat. AND it kills the already narrow build diversity. -Just my 2 cents-

i wonder, about build diversity. sure you wont have build designed to rez downed fast.. but that is not really a loss either. also you wont have to take a specific skill to finish downed state thus leaving room for more diversity in the build..sometimes changes are for the better.

No downstate is okay if you're a solo/duo player. But it does promote evade/burst builds a lot.

I do think that it being permanent will make WvW less chill place as you will always have to be on your toes for backstabbing thieves and small groups bursting you, even when within 60 man group. I also like to play staff ele a lot and part of the balance of the class is to be able to downed mist form to safety as you can't prevent dying always.

Overall cloud meta should be dominant during this week, if people would run proper builds, as ressing def is more of a thing for stacked groups. It is nice change for a boring 3-minstrel ballmeta that has been around too long.

I agree with everyone. It is a ton of fun, killing zerg tails actual makes a difference, you can punch a bit above your numbers. But it helps thieves and I've been playing thief.I also have started playing staff ele more and agree with the above that part of playing it is mist forming to your team to res you. In the long term is not good because it further narrows build diversity, and not just eles. Also resurrecting, a cool feature, becomes obsolete and all the traits with it that affect it.

Some players like it, some players don't and a lot just tolerate it for a week.

I would only accept a permanent no down state in WvW if they reworked elementalist, especially the more offense oriented builds. I swear Anet have completely balanced the class around being rescued by downstate. It would be almost unplayable without it.

@Ganathar.4956 said:I would only accept a permanent no down state in WvW if they reworked elementalist, especially the more offense oriented builds. I swear Anet have completely balanced the class around being rescued by downstate. It would be almost unplayable without it.

This would explain why Ele basically doesn't exist in SPvP outside of support, then.

Its been incredible.

Its been a known fact for a while now that downstate encourages blobbing, but you don't realise just how much of an advantage the larger groups have until you take that mechanic away. Being able to defeat groups that outnumber you by factors of 3 by playing smart is probably the most amount of fun I've ever had in this game.

Please anet, I know you will never remove downstate and I think most people have accepted that, but please do some re balancing with it. Give players a chance at defeating enemy players who constantly blob them down with no risk.

Its nutty that a group of 10 this week can be outplayed by groups as little as 3-4 when downstate is not a factor, when typically a ball of 10 players is pretty much untouchable with downstate until and the opposition blobs them back.

I'm always advocating downstate as an interesting and integral part of the game but these few days feel so good to me that I might just change my mind. It really promotes skill. No more second chance just because your group is bigger and can insta ress you. On the other hand, it broadens the gap between good and bad players and I am not sure if this is good for the mode overall.

@Ganathar.4956 said:I would only accept a permanent no down state in WvW if they reworked elementalist, especially the more offense oriented builds. I swear Anet have completely balanced the class around being rescued by downstate. It would be almost unplayable without it.

i agree about elem. tho creating a gimmick to save unbalanced weak class from being trully unbalanced... is not a solution.

@Cuks.8241 said:I'm always advocating downstate as an interesting and integral part of the game but these few days feel so good to me that I might just change my mind. It really promotes skill. No more second chance just because your group is bigger and can insta ress you. On the other hand, it broadens the gap between good and bad players and I am not sure if this is good for the mode overall.

getting better at a game is also a satisfying part of the experience.gw2 build diversity should be big. there will always be a build for those less good players to survive and even have a significant impact in a group. its just that now your mistakes are less forgiving.

I like the downstate mechanic but in WvW it's problematic, from Zergs insta ressing anyone who goes down to Elemenalists getting a saftey net with vapor form.It's been really nice to actually be able to defend something against a group with massive numbers instead of just abandoning it if you don't have the numbers.

I think the most fun part is that people seem to focus on Vapor Form as a safety net for Ele but completely ignore the need for it. Ele is in almost all builds so squishy that Vapor is similar to a 25k Shroud or Invulnerability from Guardian or Ranger or Warrior.On the other hand it's completely ignored that most classes that shine at roaming don't need that because they have a whole swiss army knife of tools to just evade going down.If you really think Ele is in such a good spot with Vapor Form go play it for roaming, play it for zerging and have fun with it? Oh right, you won't.Ele relies to a certain extent on the (downstate) mist form, while other classes just ignore damage or have the option to stealth away.I really hope Anets makes this an event or finally reworks stealth so it can't be used as an additional evade and reset tool.

@diomache.9246 said:I think the most fun part is that people seem to focus on Vapor Form as a safety net for Ele but completely ignore the need for it. Ele is in almost all builds so squishy that Vapor is similar to a 25k Shroud or Invulnerability from Guardian or Ranger or Warrior.On the other hand it's completely ignored that most classes that shine at roaming don't need that because they have a whole swiss army knife of tools to just evade going down.If you really think Ele is in such a good spot with Vapor Form go play it for roaming, play it for zerging and have fun with it? Oh right, you won't.Ele relies to a certain extent on the (downstate) mist form, while other classes just ignore damage or have the option to stealth away.I really hope Anets makes this an event or finally reworks stealth so it can't be used as an additional evade and reset tool.

erm... if you rely on being in downstate as a core gameplay then something is wrong. becasue that is crearly not what downstate was intended for.i did made some elem roaming and it can be successfull in small group fights but problematic in large group.it all depends on the build. for example elem D/D works with condi gear. elem burst works with old sceptre/focus fresh air. the problem here is the staff.long channeling time for average damage anyclass can do in few seconds. easy to dodge AOE. only the CC is decent in some situation.also elem has so manymid to close range weapons and ability that it takes often too much risk going in. i wish elem would have viable big hitting long range AOE like in any other RPG.

so in that regard the problem isn't the no downstate but the elem itself.

@diomache.9246 said:I think the most fun part is that people seem to focus on Vapor Form as a safety net for Ele but completely ignore the need for it. Ele is in almost all builds so squishy that Vapor is similar to a 25k Shroud or Invulnerability from Guardian or Ranger or Warrior.On the other hand it's completely ignored that most classes that shine at roaming don't need that because they have a whole swiss army knife of tools to just evade going down.If you really think Ele is in such a good spot with Vapor Form go play it for roaming, play it for zerging and have fun with it? Oh right, you won't.Ele relies to a certain extent on the (downstate) mist form, while other classes just ignore damage or have the option to stealth away.I really hope Anets makes this an event or finally reworks stealth so it can't be used as an additional evade and reset tool.

Ele is one of the most versatile professions out there. It has builds that vary from melee tank to squishy glass cannon backliner. There are plenty of ele roaming builds; core tempest and weaver, that are very tanky.

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:I agree with everyone.

I had to laugh.

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:i wonder, about build diversity. sure you wont have build designed to rez downed fast.. but that is not really a loss either. also you wont have to take a specific skill to finish downed state thus leaving room for more diversity in the build..sometimes changes are for the better.

I have a build I like to run on my Scourge for exactly that. Got nerfed in Feb, but it still works pretty well. Being able to rez 5 ppl from down to 80% in seconds is incredibly powerful. Transfusion, Ritual of Life, Well of Blood, Signet of Undeath and Mercy Runes. You can heal the other 20% to get them back to full health pretty quick after that.

@Doug.4930 said:...Its nutty that a group of 10 this week can be outplayed by groups as little as 3-4 when downstate is not a factor, when typically a ball of 10 players is pretty much untouchable with downstate until and the opposition blobs them back...

Well, my experience is that these groups are PvEers who've come for the bonuses.

@Cuks.8241 said:Ele is one of the most versatile professions out there. It has builds that vary from melee tank to squishy glass cannon backliner. There are plenty of ele roaming builds; core tempest and weaver, that are very tanky.

That's why you see almost none of them roaming or in spvp, right?

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:i wonder, about build diversity. sure you wont have build designed to rez downed fast.. but that is not really a loss either. also you wont have to take a specific skill to finish downed state thus leaving room for more diversity in the build..sometimes changes are for the better.

@Doug.4930 said:...Its nutty that a group of 10 this week can be outplayed by groups as little as 3-4 when downstate is not a factor, when typically a ball of 10 players is pretty much untouchable with downstate until and the opposition blobs them back...

Honestly, versus some servers it is hard to tell the difference. I’m very outnumbered by both enemy links this week. One in particular seems to always have another player streaming in. Start a 1v1 it becomes 1v2 then 1v3, then 1v5 and shortly thereafter 1v10 if you survive long enough. If you are able to get kills you can turn that into a steady 1v3 if you can get kills and not die...and that’s the normal WvW players not the low ranked players going for GoB or some other reward track.

As Doug said, outnumbered feels better because you have a chance to get a kill. Otherwise, it normally would feel like attacking a brick wall with your face.

Yes, downstate adds more tactics in even fights because you have to consider stomping or using a down to bait out other enemies. But, at least as a one week event, there are also benefits to playing without downstate that should be celebrated.

@Cuks.8241 said:I'm always advocating downstate as an interesting and integral part of the game but these few days feel so good to me that I might just change my mind. It really promotes skill. No more second chance just because your group is bigger and can insta ress you. On the other hand, it broadens the gap between good and bad players and I am not sure if this is good for the mode overall.

A lot of players adjusted their builds to one shot or lock down a precise spot and explode whatever is there but if no downstate stuck around I think people would ease back into their usual builds again. When I was messing around with timing on area blinds and pulls and stuff to mess with openers I got beat up the worst by players who didn't seem to change anything much. I agree about the mode overall, raising full dead is frustrating and the tighter a zerg tail has to get the less is replenishes. I build to cover people and it's been a wild weekend but I think downstate needs to stay but it needs to be broke down to something basic and make it more about quick team play and less about personal gimmicks that aren't consistent among professions.

@kash.9213 said:

@Cuks.8241 said:I'm always advocating downstate as an interesting and integral part of the game but these few days feel so good to me that I might just change my mind. It really promotes skill. No more second chance just because your group is bigger and can insta ress you. On the other hand, it broadens the gap between good and bad players and I am not sure if this is good for the mode overall.

if downed state stay. they should remove auto attack to make it more fair in small ountumbered, nerf HP pool, restrict healing by one person and remove rally bot completely. but honestly thats alot of tiny changes that would just be resolved with no downed state at all.

even more troubling, while the no downed state is active there is more players in WvW than ever, queus on some maps all day long instead of only in prime time and people naturally floc together more and create instinctively lots of little groups of hunter and roamers.which is very healthy for WvW. but maybe thats becasue of it being new and fresh.who know how people would react to it if it was one month long?

If they make this permanent, or even a consistent thing, they would have to tweak the Signet of Undeath (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Undeath) since its active skill would be unusable, and I'm there are other skills that would need tweaking.

For Signet Of Undeath, I would suggest the same sacrifice of HP, but it gives a reflect bubble, a teleport, or gives the necro stealth. In WvW only, of course.

@"misterman.1530" said:If they make this permanent, or even a consistent thing, they would have to tweak the Signet of Undeath (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Undeath) since its active skill would be unusable, and I'm there are other skills that would need tweaking.

For Signet Of Undeath, I would suggest the same sacrifice of HP, but it gives a reflect bubble, a teleport, or gives the necro stealth. In WvW only, of course.

would making it raize the dead instead of downed a good thing?

@saerni.2584 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:i wonder, about build diversity. sure you wont have build designed to rez downed fast.. but that is not really a loss either. also you wont have to take a specific skill to finish downed state thus leaving room for more diversity in the build..sometimes changes are for the better.

@Doug.4930 said:...Its nutty that a group of 10 this week can be outplayed by groups as little as 3-4 when downstate is not a factor, when typically a ball of 10 players is pretty much untouchable with downstate until and the opposition blobs them back...

I agree that events like this are good, but it also brings out the trolls. Like for hours yesterday we had 5 deadeyes spawn camping. Perma stealthing and deleting people as they tried to join in. They left once the keep got a WP, but its stupidly frustrating.

Also, I'd like to see the downstate week happen without the call to war bonuses because its all too easy to kill most of these people on the maps now. I think they are running raid builds or something because I got 700 kills the other night and for me that is just never-seen-before-sky-high numbers.

I think downstate in WvW should just have the HP pool reduced by 50%.

Don't know if this is just a theory or also empirically supported but I've heard that no downstate can turn group fights into more of a numbers game where the bigger group becomes all the more likely to win, because the moment the smaller group starts losing people, the number difference gets all the bigger.