Permanent no downed state suggestion

I am really enjoying this no downed state week. I think it makes roaming a LOT better and PvP encounters inside of WvW a lot better. Downed state is fantastic in PvE and SPvP, adding a ton of depth to both these modes, but in WvW it just encourages outnumbering and benefits the people who have more numbers too much imo.

I think a complete removal of downed state is bad for WvW, though, as that would not only upset a lot of people but also make the game mode too difficult for new players. However, I think you can find a happy medium for players.

My suggestion:The aura effects are granted by the eight Objective Aura buffs now allows you to be downed instead of instantly dying. Anywhere else on WvW has no downed state.

What do people(and maybe anet?) think about this suggestion?

Your premise is flawed and inaccurate, but the suggestion is worth exploring.

The keeps buff is only applied to the defender. Your suggestion would put an end to keep fights and would promote hit&run pvd instead. If you want to murder wvw, then this would be even better than simply removing downstate.

Really, get yourself a proper zerg build, join an organized squad and try to take a few well defended T3 keeps and you will understand why downstate is healthy for the game (hint: 1 side can almost always return the fight after respawning, the other side usually can't). Roaming is fun, but we are a minoriy and shouldn't expect the balance to revolve around us.

@Shiyo.3578 said:My suggestion:Presence of the keep buff now allows you to be downed instead of instantly dying. Anywhere else on WvW has no downed state.

What do people(and maybe anet?) think about this suggestion?I think you didn't understand the wvw mechanics at all.

Keeps are close to the spawn point to be easy to defend and hard to capture as they are an important structure. Your suggestion will lead to a snowball mechanic for both involved sides:

• Defending a keep is already easier than capturing it as the defenders can respawn at close distance. If you give them an additional downstate advantage then capturing a keep becomes even harder.
• On the other hand once a keep is captured and the attacker can use the buff, they get a huge advantage in defending it.

But I don't think downstate is an important mechanic for proper sieging. That argument died the day warclaw joined wvw. The mount made it easier to return to the battlefield and to cut off camps and dollies.

@KrHome.1920 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:My suggestion:Presence of the keep buff now allows you to be downed instead of instantly dying. Anywhere else on WvW has no downed state.

What do people(and maybe anet?) think about this suggestion?I think you didn't understand the wvw mechanics at all.

• Defending a keep is already easier than capturing it as the defenders can respawn at close distance. If you give them an additional downstate advantage then capturing a keep becomes even harder.
• On the other hand once a keep is captured and the attacker can use the buff, they get a huge advantage in defending it.

This applies at camps and towers too if your guild controls it and has it learned.

@Shiyo.3578 said:This applies at camps and towers too if your guild controls it and has it learned.

No it does not and the normal objective aura has nothing to do with it, it's a tactic that can only be put into keeps and gives another buff with the same stats as the objective buff, effectively doubling it

i culd add to "no downstate" instant ress on f by person out of combat after 1-2min cd to person that deadbut it will never happyn with perm stealth thiefs

@Linnar.6032 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:This applies at camps and towers too if your guild controls it and has it learned.

Oh ok, I am referring to the the aura effects granted by the eight Objective Aura upgrades that can be purchased. I edited my OP and fixed that.

How about only players with the outnumbered buff get to go into downstate? That way they finally have an advantage to help out.

No.

Presence of the Keep is already too good to begin with, and incentivizing being in your keep also discourages people from going on the offensive.

You are enjoying it, many others are not.Down state is as much core to GW2 as is half of your skill bar being decided by your weapon.

Without it, GW2 just feels wrong.

@Shiyo.3578 said:I think a complete removal of downed state is bad for WvW, though.

no, it would be a healthy addition to WvW with some minor tweak and rebalance.with the boonball meta (which always was a thing), damage overall nerf and downed state, bus are stronger than ever. if you are outnumbered you will not be able to make any significant action to counter that bus or larger group. so all you will do is try to grab a few lost enemy nd that will be your roaming experience..

@"Fueki.4753" said:You are enjoying it, many others are not.Down state is as much core to GW2 as is half of your skill bar being decided by your weapon.

Without it, GW2 just feels wrong.

but feels better and mor fun? downstate is terribly unbalanced between class and feels more like a gimmick for PvE than a properly implemented feature for gameplay purpose. no downstate just proved that one of the "core" gw2 mechanic may not be a good thing after all in a mass PvP environment.

@"Shiyo.3578" said:I am really enjoying this no downed state week. I think it makes roaming a LOT better and PvP encounters inside of WvW a lot better. Downed state is fantastic in PvE and SPvP, adding a ton of depth to both these modes, but in WvW it just encourages outnumbering and benefits the people who have more numbers too much imo.

I think a complete removal of downed state is bad for WvW, though, as that would not only upset a lot of people but also make the game mode too difficult for new players. However, I think you can find a happy medium for players.

My suggestion:The aura effects are granted by the eight Objective Aura buffs now allows you to be downed instead of instantly dying. Anywhere else on WvW has no downed state.

What do people(and maybe anet?) think about this suggestion?

Yuikes. Basically you will get "people immediately pull back to objective with aura" and make this aura mandatory in WvW. Add to that wonderful arrow-cart fiesta and 2-3 people spamming dragon banner (from more than one objective) and you're basically increasing difficulty of taking objectives, resulting in "blob waits by 5 trebs until everything is trebbed down and all siege is destroyed" situation -- hardly optimal.

No Downstate itself is a rather bad for anyone except 'I want to gank players out of stealth and run away if attempt fails' type of builds and encourages more and more tanky blob type of fight. It's a temporary disruption that interrupts wvw regulars for a bit (and the worst possible time for PvE-ers to join WvW to try it out) but the whole thing is, it's temporary. You could make it slightly less awful if, for example, you double or triple everyone's health for the duration of the no downstate event.

Frankly I'd rather us to finally get 'a week without stealth' with 'honorary combat mode' were you don't get any stealth at all and then see how many people would like that :)

@Shiyo.3578 said:I am really enjoying this no downed state week. I think it makes roaming a LOT better and PvP encounters inside of WvW a lot better. Downed state is fantastic in PvE and SPvP, adding a ton of depth to both these modes, but in WvW it just encourages outnumbering and benefits the people who have more numbers too much imo.

I think a complete removal of downed state is bad for WvW, though, as that would not only upset a lot of people but also make the game mode too difficult for new players. However, I think you can find a happy medium for players.

My suggestion:The aura effects are granted by the eight Objective Aura buffs now allows you to be downed instead of instantly dying. Anywhere else on WvW has no downed state.

What do people(and maybe anet?) think about this suggestion?

The suggestion came up feelt150 times and 3 pools serious there 6-10 threads about it alone this time spoiler around 50-60% don't like the idea.My experience is the most intensive fight had with this event was fighting off a Heal FB & Scrapper as Heal Tempest for a champ 15 minutes straight because nobody came to help me fighting them off. In the end they were so annoyed they left. xD

To "keep downstate" but remove the snowballing effect it gives to larger numbers, the fix is easy.

• Remove in combat reviving, just like defeated is, downstate then still exists, so if your team wins the fight, they can get you up.

• Rally should be removed as well. It's a snowballing effect for the larger team.

• No downed skills etc

• You can then rework revive traits and the like to new uses

• (OPTIONAL) Give everyone a revive skill that has to be slotted into a utility/elite slot, skills should all have the same cast time and CD (a fairly long one). This allows for skilled play to get someone in your group up, but means you have to give up something for that ability.

This also fixes the main complaint I see from people in game about No DS events, that being body tagging, since they "go down" still, people have more time to tag bodies for more bags, without the negative effects that downstate brings to stacking/outnumbering people. Another thing it fixes are people who complain that finisher would no longer work with no DS, well, in this version of DS, finishers still exist and can be used. However, as someone who has bought just about all the gem store finishers, I am fine with losing them to get these changes.

@"ledernierrempart.6871" said:but feels better and mor fun?To me, and many others, it feels worse and unfun.

downstate is terribly unbalanced between classJust like literally everything else in the game feels like.

and feels more like a gimmick for PvE than a properly implemented feature for gameplay purpose.Mirage Cloak feels like a GimmickFull Counter feels like a Gimmick.Guardian Tomes feel like a Gimmick.Death Shroud feels like a Gimmick.Reaper Shroud feels like a Gimmick.The list goes on and on.

Just because a mechanic feels like a gimmick to someone, doesn't mean it's bad.Downstate definitely is on the better side.

no downstate just proved that one of the "core" gw2 mechanic may not be a good thing after all in a mass PvP environment.No downstate proved that its only interesting for maybe one day and then WvW is emptier than during regular weeks with the full gameplay available.

@"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:To "keep downstate" but remove the snowballing effect it gives to larger numbers, the fix is easy.

• Remove in combat reviving, just like defeated is, downstate then still exists, so if your team wins the fight, they can get you up.

Thieves can break combat more easily than any other class, i.e. extremely easily, and come back.

It's effectively in-combat reviving.

@Svarty.8019 said:

@"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:To "keep downstate" but remove the snowballing effect it gives to larger numbers, the fix is easy.

• Remove in combat reviving, just like defeated is, downstate then still exists, so if your team wins the fight, they can get you up.

And by doing so, would give the stomp to the other player, as the thief would have to have all movement ability skills off CD, as they would need to break combat, then port back before you could stomp or DPS the downed, and if they are saving that much in a fight and are not only able to get back in time, but get off a CC, drop stealth, and be able to tank whatever DPS is coming their way, well, then they deserve the res for pulling something like that off. It's also a far, FAR better option than the current "spam F".

@Fueki.4753 said:To me, and many others, it feels worse and unfun.

why so? because you can't elem mist back to the bus? because it is harder to deal with smaller groups? becasue you can't abuse your numerical advantage as much as before?

Just like literally everything else in the game feels like.

then let us have another thing you feel unbalanced since everything is unbalanced anyway?

Mirage Cloak feels like a GimmickFull Counter feels like a Gimmick.Guardian Tomes feel like a Gimmick.Death Shroud feels like a Gimmick.Reaper Shroud feels like a Gimmick.The list goes on and on.

but each class has their own gameplay. dwonstate has nothing to do with class gameplay. and if you are using downstate as a core game^play of the class then you are playing it wrong.

Just because a mechanic feels like a gimmick to someone, doesn't mean it's bad.Downstate definitely is on the better side.

downstate has too many downside in WvW. alot of the complaints about damage nerf, boonballing, outnumbered, etc all can be completely or partially resolved just by getting rid of downstate.downstate IS good for PvE.can be interesting in PvP (as it is a capture the point gamemode and not a team deathmatch).but in a chaotic mass Pvp environment? it is bad. only when both fighting groups are at an roughly equal number can the fight be interesting.sadly that doesn't happen often in WvW.

No downstate proved that its only interesting for maybe one day and then WvW is emptier than during regular weeks with the full gameplay available.

WvW hasn't been that much populated since months (sure, there is still summer vacation to take in consideration). never have i seen queues on at least one map during all day long. usually there is a queue only at prime time.when downstate will come back WvW will be that bus fest where you can't do anything without number again.

imagine all the interesting things you would see without downstate!raizing deads with resurection skills.more builds diverity as players will try new combinations to either kill fast or make everyone survive.individual skill will rise as players will be more cautious.downstate in EOTM and obsidian sanctuary so PvE players and duelists may go back to those wonderfull maps.hunting parties!dead thieves instead of getting invisible by a mate to come back to life! cough cough...new balance upon burst skill (as you don't have to dps a second life bar).better bus stacking to avoid getting nuked by a team focus while straying to far from the bus.

you know, the 2 main cause of WvW burnout are: playing too much for the server to earn the maximum points possible (data from WvW seasons we had years ago) and outnumbered being too hard to counter. (each time arenanet change the balance of WvW which intentionaly or unintentionaly increase bus or larger groups effectivness while decreasing smaller group effectivness, fighting guilds leave or disband.)

at one point WvW will just become like EOTM with only bus running around and that will be the death of WvW.i want WvW to be and feel different than PvE. i don't want to just follow a bus all day long like i would do on a PvE map. i want to fight. taking objectives are a pretexte to encounter those fights. i want to be able to improve my skills and build to achieve victory against outnumbered fights. i want to feel like a hero in a fantasy world. not a simple soldier that can't do anything against numbers.

Do you guys remember the in the map Borderlands north camp event years ago that was discontinued with the orbs?

What if they brought that back, and the server that collected all the orbs gained a buff that allowed downstate. While the other 2 servers were double downed on death. I don't know i'm just throwing suggestions, but i'm sure reimplenting an old function rather than completely building a new one would be easier, :)

Maybe this suggestion can lead others to think of new ways to work in a north camp orb event. I know my suggestion was pretty bare bones, but with this new north camp event, it can be just as impactful and hold as much importance as defending a t3 tower or keep.

I'm open for criticism, go for it. :)

@AikijinX.6258 said:Do you guys remember the in the map Borderlands north camp event years ago that was discontinued with the orbs?

What if they brought that back, and the server that collected all the orbs gained a buff that allowed downstate. While the other 2 servers were double downed on death. I don't know i'm just throwing suggestions, but i'm sure reimplenting an old function rather than completely building a new one would be easier, :)

Maybe this suggestion can lead others to think of new ways to work in a north camp orb event. I know my suggestion was pretty bare bones, but with this new north camp event, it can be just as impactful and hold as much importance as defending a t3 tower or keep.

I'm open for criticism, go for it. :)

The orbs are much like DS, they already favor the larger side, this is why they were removed, because the strongest server is going to control all of them, add into the fact cheating was a big issue with them as well.

Mates, you have to stop this endless discussion. Downed state cannot be removed entirely because it is a basic game mechanic of the core game. Anet sold the game with the mechanic included, they have sold finishers for gems and you can purchase finishers in the trading post, They cannot remove something that you have paid to use, it can be considered a fraud if they do it. Imagine they remove mounts from wvw because you dont like them. What happens with the people that have purchased mount skins exclusively for wvw purposes?Anet can balance skills, can modify them, they can add content but they CANNOT remove content you have paid for. Down state can be a pain in the ass for big zerg fights, but is a key mechanic in roaming fights and it is aesthetically cool with low numbers. Stop it please and care about things that CAN be changed to improve the game experience.

@Blackfish.7349 said:Mates, you have to stop this endless discussion. Downed state cannot be removed entirely because it is a basic game mechanic of the core game. Anet sold the game with the mechanic included, they have sold finishers for gems and you can purchase finishers in the trading post, They cannot remove something that you have paid to use, it can be considered a fraud if they do it. Imagine they remove mounts from wvw because you dont like them. What happens with the people that have purchased mount skins exclusively for wvw purposes?Anet can balance skills, can modify them, they can add content but they CANNOT remove content you have paid for. Down state can be a pain in the kitten for big zerg fights, but is a key mechanic in roaming fights and it is aesthetically cool with low numbers. Stop it please and care about things that CAN be changed to improve the game experience.

None of this is true.

Games often remove paid for items, some with zero compensation, all this means is that you didn't read the ToS.

However, if they wanted to be nice about it, they just give a gems refund, so you get your gems back and can buy something else.

@AikijinX.6258 said:Do you guys remember the in the map Borderlands north camp event years ago that was discontinued with the orbs?

What if they brought that back, and the server that collected all the orbs gained a buff that allowed downstate. While the other 2 servers were double downed on death. I don't know i'm just throwing suggestions, but i'm sure reimplenting an old function rather than completely building a new one would be easier, :)

Maybe this suggestion can lead others to think of new ways to work in a north camp orb event. I know my suggestion was pretty bare bones, but with this new north camp event, it can be just as impactful and hold as much importance as defending a t3 tower or keep.

I'm open for criticism, go for it. :)

Interesting idea. Could even do something like this ->An Orb is placed in a designated location on each Borderland. Picking up this Orb creates a notification on screen that states the Orb has been taken. The bearer of the Orb becomes visible on the mini map at set intervals (lets say every 10 seconds?). The objective is to reach a certain location with the Orb in hand to disable downed state for the offending servers. For a period of time after placing the Orb it cannot be picked up again and the debuff cannot be refreshed (let's say 15 minutes?). Killing the Orb bearer resets it's location to it's starting position.The more allied players within a certain vicinity of the Orb bearer the less health they have with a minimum limit of 1,000. Mounts cannot be used while holding the Orb.

Just some ideas to build on yours.

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@AikijinX.6258 said:Do you guys remember the in the map Borderlands north camp event years ago that was discontinued with the orbs?

What if they brought that back, and the server that collected all the orbs gained a buff that allowed downstate. While the other 2 servers were double downed on death. I don't know i'm just throwing suggestions, but i'm sure reimplenting an old function rather than completely building a new one would be easier, :)

Maybe this suggestion can lead others to think of new ways to work in a north camp orb event. I know my suggestion was pretty bare bones, but with this new north camp event, it can be just as impactful and hold as much importance as defending a t3 tower or keep.

I'm open for criticism, go for it. :)

So, the larger side is able to remove DS from the smaller side, thats all this will be. Orb was already indicated on the map when taken, you had 15mins to place it, and your HP was depleted while holding it. We have seen this with the normal orb situation, the stronger side always has them. Also, you have cheating issues, all it takes is one person to use a teleport hack and boom, orb taken.

Combat mechanics should NEVER be tied to events like this, as it always becomes a snowballing effect.