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Can we do something about this MASSIVE oversight.


Smoosh.2718

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No, no fun allowed for warrior. Just accept the fact that people are going to get mad if warrior gets any kind of buff. if anything I'd expect anet would agree something is wrong here and make boons removed on Break Enchantment from 4 to 2, to bring it inline. :)

Inc: One is a E-spec profession skill while the other is a optional utility debate.

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@Lucentfir.7430 said:No, no fun allowed for warrior. Just accept the fact that people are going to get mad if warrior gets any kind of buff. if anything I'd expect anet would agree something is wrong here and make boons removed on Break Enchantment from 4 to 2, to bring it inline. :)

Inc: One is a E-spec profession skill while the other is a optional utility debate.

I'm actually not sure if you're trolling. I'm going to go with the benefit of the doubt and say your first part was a troll statement.

The change I have a feeling we will see, is True Nature being nerfed in damage to be in line with the warrior version ( and rightfully so! ).

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@Smoosh.2718 said:

@Lucentfir.7430 said:No, no fun allowed for warrior. Just accept the fact that people are going to get mad if warrior gets any kind of buff. if anything I'd expect anet would agree something is wrong here and make boons removed on Break Enchantment from 4 to 2, to bring it inline. :)

Inc: One is a E-spec profession skill while the other is a optional utility debate.

I'm actually not sure if you're trolling. I'm going to go with the benefit of the doubt and say your first part was a troll statement.

The change I have a feeling we will see, is True Nature being nerfed in damage to be in line with the warrior version ( and rightfully so! ).

I'm going to help you with that, no he's not trolling. These are different skills, having different effects. They do not need to be in line with each other.You can argue that rev is strong or war is too weak, but simply putting 2 somewhat similar skill descriptions next to each other won't make a good case.

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@Yasai.3549 said:Maybe it's compensating for the additional 2 boon rip which hits 5 targets?Idk, I can see Break Enchantments being pretty devastating to rip 4 boons from 5 people.

Yet it is never used.

When the skill came out, it was actually a good skill. It punished the boon spammers, 2 boons gone and you took up to 2-3k damage.

Break enchantments was 2 boons, then buffed to 3 boons then damage reduced by 50% and then damage nerfed again to a 0.1 co from a 0.5 co.

If anything bring the rev skill in line with the warrior one, or bring the warrior one in line with the rev one (50% of its damage of course for obvious reasons, since it does 100% more with a boon rip)

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to be fair you are not comparing the 2 skills very well. Apart of the difference of boons stripped (wich is very high difference, 2 more boon strip from 5 target= potential 10 more boon removed than true nature). How much energy cost break enchantement? Can it be used any moment, or you have to be on the right legend? Time cost is really the same? I think true nature needs the upkeep first to be activated, isnt it? Does revenant has any traits that benefit from removing boon (nope)? Does spellbreaker has any trait that benefit from removing boon(yep)?I think you would be even worst balancer than arenanet if you do these kind of comparisons.Is like comparing the warrior dodge roll to revenant dodge roll.

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@"Shala.8352" said:to be fair you are not comparing the 2 skills very well. Apart of the difference of boons stripped (wich is very high difference, 2 more boon strip from 5 target= potential 10 more boon removed than true nature). How much energy cost break enchantement? Can it be used any moment, or you have to be on the right legend? Time cost is really the same? I think true nature needs the upkeep first to be activated, isnt it? Does revenant has any traits that benefit from removing boon (nope)? Does spellbreaker has any trait that benefit from removing boon(yep)?I think you would be even worst balancer than arenanet if you do these kind of comparisons.Is like comparing the warrior dodge roll to revenant dodge roll.

You missed the point totally.The logic behind anet nerfing the damage on Break enchantment is that they believed it did too much damage against blocking foes (this is back when it removed 2 boons)However the rev skill has not suffered the same fate the warrior one has.

In an Spvp enviroment on a 1 on 1 scenario you're down to your last 3,000 health, against a warrior using break enchantment you'll have at least 2,500 health left. against a rev you'd die if it crits. Im not suggesting to increase the damage on the warrior skill, im say lower the damage on the rev skill else we have this huge imabalance of skills.

I'm going to pick out a few flaws in your arguement:

"I think true nature needs the upkeep first to be activated" - Double tap F2 and its instant

"Does revenant has any traits that benefit from removing boon (nope)?" - There is a trait that will allow the removal of an extra boon.

"Does spellbreaker has any trait that benefit from removing boon(yep)?" - These traits are actually painfully bad to use.. seriously (ignore WvW for a second and think Spvp) 2 adrenalin per boon and 53 damage that cant crit, a weapon swap will end up getting you more adrenalin than that.

" Is like comparing the warrior dodge roll to revenant dodge roll." - Now you're going off the topic on what this is about, true nature unblockable boon remove and high damage, If warrior is meant to be the baseline for all class balancing, lower the damage of the rev skill. Job done.


Please note that this is the PvP sub forum not the WvW forum, this is about Spvp balance not WvW balance.

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Warriors one has extra damage through traitshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Loss_Aversionextra adrenaline and ferocity/power through https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attacker%27s_InsightI dont know if loss aversion procs multiple times if you strip multiple boons but if it does the skill would deal 5x the damage listed.In that scenario you are comparing hard hitting 2 boonstrip skillto weak/meadium hitting 4 boonstrip skill that also grants ~200ferocity/might which is rather close when you think about it

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@"Leonidrex.5649" said:Warriors one has extra damage through traitshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Loss_Aversionextra adrenaline and ferocity/power through https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attacker%27s_InsightI dont know if loss aversion procs multiple times if you strip multiple boons but if it does the skill would deal 5x the damage listed.In that scenario you are comparing hard hitting 2 boonstrip skillto weak/meadium hitting 4 boonstrip skill that also grants ~200ferocity/might which is rather close when you think about it

Stop making sense. We're not here to be reasonable. One skill does more damage than the other, let's just get angry about it and call it a day!

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The sad thing is, i'm both trolling and not trolling OP, I would not put it past anet to nerf the amount of boons removed on Break Enchantment, since they've had a huge wild streak of nerfing things no one uses for 'reasons' of being brought into line with their current balance attempt agenda.

@Leonidrex.5649Loss Aversion procs multiple times based on the number of boons stripped but they can't crit, and if you're trying to sell me the PVE version of Loss Aversion please, I'd love it if that were the case, the PvP/WvW version is 27 damage per boon ripped, in a power amulet it's about 72 damage, Break Enchantments itself can crit but the base damage is so low it's still in garbage territory. Not only that but in comparison Hearld gets it for free without having to dedicate a utility slot(as if Rev had any ability or more utility skills to swap to in every legend), So really the most benefit you get out of Break Enchantment is the boon removal, and Attacker's Insight, even though you naturally get stacks of Attacker's Insight while running dagger or hitting any hard CC, it's not really worth the slot compared to other options that let you live longer. At the end of the day it's only slightly useful in WvW zerg combat.

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@"Leonidrex.5649" said:Warriors one has extra damage through traitshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Loss_Aversionextra adrenaline and ferocity/power through https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attacker%27s_InsightI dont know if loss aversion procs multiple times if you strip multiple boons but if it does the skill would deal 5x the damage listed.In that scenario you are comparing hard hitting 2 boonstrip skillto weak/meadium hitting 4 boonstrip skill that also grants ~200ferocity/might which is rather close when you think about it

Like @Lucentfir.7430 said; Loss Aversion procs multiple times, but it doesn't crit and even with zerker stats it can hit in the double digits. It's definitely far from hard hitting. :p It also isn't a part of break enchantments so it doesn't have the 100% boost to damage(as if that even matters on a 27 damage skill)

For Spellbreaker and on a 25 second CD, the adrenaline is pretty negligible too. Just for example, with one singular breaching strike(Dagger burst) you could get half the adrenaline you'd gain from Break Enchantments on 1/3rd of the CD, and with well over double the damage to boot.

And yeah; it would grant the stacks of Attacker's Insight, but honestly if you're playing Spellbreaker you pretty much permanently have 5 stacks of this so long as you're fighting something. Break Enchantments doesn't really have noticeable impact on the insight upkeep.

Feels like Practicality versus technicality because you aren't wrong technically, but in the context of an actual match Break Enchantments = a bad time... for you, the Spellbreaker.

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@"Leonidrex.5649" said:Warriors one has extra damage through traitshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Loss_Aversionextra adrenaline and ferocity/power through https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attacker%27s_InsightI dont know if loss aversion procs multiple times if you strip multiple boons but if it does the skill would deal 5x the damage listed.In that scenario you are comparing hard hitting 2 boonstrip skillto weak/meadium hitting 4 boonstrip skill that also grants ~200ferocity/might which is rather close when you think about it

stop talking about classes which you don't understand, pretty much all 9 classes, i'm surprised you still arent embarrassed enough to stop posting, for all the clueless comments you've made in the past months.

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BE isn't worth taking.

1: underwhelming damage for underwhelming utility

2: warrior can't afford to take a utilitarian utility skill (Outside of elites) due to class limitations and the value it has to get out of it's utilities to be viable. Utilities choices have more weight for warrior due to a lack of built in weapon skill utility. They are less easily swapped around than say a guardian choosing a mantra based on enemy comp.

3: 4 boons sounds like a lot but in practice many classes can quickly reapply what was lost.

So here's my thoughts. True Nature hits too hard for what it offers in the way of utility and could stand a small shave if PRev was over performing and I'm not sure that it is. BE on the other hand isn't worth taking by any stretch of the imagination. Buff BE by making it apply the WoD debuff for 1/2 per boon removed stacking up to 2 seconds. It would fit a niche and be a strong contender for other utility skills. Probably more geared to Defense builds though and Defense is pretty battered atm.

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@Smoosh.2718 said:

@"Shala.8352" said:to be fair you are not comparing the 2 skills very well. Apart of the difference of boons stripped (wich is very high difference, 2 more boon strip from 5 target= potential 10 more boon removed than true nature). How much energy cost break enchantement? Can it be used any moment, or you have to be on the right legend? Time cost is really the same? I think true nature needs the upkeep first to be activated, isnt it? Does revenant has any traits that benefit from removing boon (nope)? Does spellbreaker has any trait that benefit from removing boon(yep)?I think you would be even worst balancer than arenanet if you do these kind of comparisons.Is like comparing the warrior dodge roll to revenant dodge roll.

You missed the point totally.The logic behind anet nerfing the damage on Break enchantment is that they believed it did too much damage against blocking foes (this is back when it removed 2 boons)However the rev skill has not suffered the same fate the warrior one has.

In an Spvp enviroment on a 1 on 1 scenario you're down to your last 3,000 health, against a warrior using break enchantment you'll have at least 2,500 health left. against a rev you'd die if it crits. Im not suggesting to increase the damage on the warrior skill, im say lower the damage on the rev skill else we have this huge imabalance of skills.

I'm going to pick out a few flaws in your arguement:

"I think true nature needs the upkeep first to be activated" - Double tap F2 and its instant

"Does revenant has any traits that benefit from removing boon (nope)?" - There is a trait that will allow the removal of an extra boon.

"Does spellbreaker has any trait that benefit from removing boon(yep)?" - These traits are actually painfully bad to use.. seriously (ignore WvW for a second and think Spvp) 2 adrenalin per boon and 53 damage that cant crit, a weapon swap will end up getting you more adrenalin than that.

" Is like comparing the warrior dodge roll to revenant dodge roll." - Now you're going off the topic on what this is about, true nature unblockable boon remove and high damage, If warrior is meant to be the baseline for all class balancing, lower the damage of the rev skill. Job done.

Please note that this is the PvP sub forum not the WvW forum, this is about Spvp balance not WvW balance.

Revenant already is the class suffering more from daze and interrupts, just because of upkeep and energy managment (you are still burning energy when interrupted, you are burning energy when using skills 2-3-4-5?? or even utilities?). Double tap F2 isnt instant, try it in 200 games in p2+ and come back to tell me how many times you were effective by double tapping in a cc spam meta (beware you have to be in 360 range to double tap), and even if you double tap the upkeep will start, blocking you energy gaining. Yes it has a cast time for both the "double tap", and we haven't free stability.

Revenant hasnt a trait that benefits from boon removal, has a trait that increase 1 boon removal. Don't see any sinergy you are trying to find in that, differently from warrior's traits. The spellbreaker traits sinergy is bad? I don't think so, but even if it was, i don't understand why you want revenant nerfed because you have bad sinergy. Your logic don't stand.

The dodge roll comparing makes perfectly sence if we say it's fair to compare true nature with break enchantement.Try to apply the nerf to true nature you are suggesting, and no revenant will use it. But unfortunately, revenant are not warriors or any other classes, able to easily change their utility like break enchantement with anithing else if it is not OVERPOWERED, so be aware of it. Before suggesting a nerf, you should understand a class as a whole, revenant is already the most predictable class because of this utility forced, you remove true nature too and revenant should maybe also whisp you the next 10-11 skills he is going to use, this is the point of how predictable is. Same stuff can be said about the damage, ye revenant has big dmg, but warrior has more sustain, so whats the deal? You want revenant dmg lowered? ok give me all those passive defences from warrior (including vitality), stability to not be interrupted every second losing energy, and at least half of your CCs (wich makes landing eviscerate easier than landing UA!!!!). Or no even better, lets make all the classes the same, all warriors, so no balance to blame.

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@TeqkOneStylez.8047 said:

@sitarskee.5738 said:Well they said warrior is in a good state and they want other classes to be in similar state to warrior. So I wouldn't expect any buffs to warrior, rather hopefully nerfing other classes.

They been saying that for years. Then they dropped Heart of Thorns.

Exactly why I said hopefully. Balance patches are way too rare. And when there are balance patches, they too often hit the wrong areas.

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