I want to play as a bruiser and caster again

Can cantha please allow me to do that?

Base D/D Ele was exactly what I want from a class in this game. You had some support, you could run into entire mob packs(and enemy players!) and tank everything while doing good DPS.However, since Weaver, ele has been turned into a "glass cannon" or a "support"(tempest). There is no longer a bruiser. I now I have to play holosmith(I don't even like engineer!) to get the old D/D ele feel back.

Can we please have an old playstyle back? Also, can you make staff good again? This game lacks a high AOE damage wizard. Again, I have to play holosmith for this feeling, as grenade mage is a better AOE burst mage than the actual mage class in this game.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAgilZw6YesN2JOyTVLNA-zRZYVhLMMIPxoBKjMLgSTAVmlqUtA-e

Might stacking will be the biggest difference. D/D works fine still.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAgilZw6YesN2JWyTVLNA-zRZYVhLMMIPxoBKjMLgSTAVmlqUtA-e

Air traitline alternative that i feel plays the most like 2012 ele

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Can cantha please allow me to do that?

Base D/D Ele was exactly what I want from a class in this game. You had some support, you could run into entire mob packs(and enemy players!) and tank everything while doing good DPS.However, since Weaver, ele has been turned into a "glass cannon" or a "support"(tempest). There is no longer a bruiser. I now I have to play holosmith(I don't even like engineer!) to get the old D/D ele feel back.

Can we please have an old playstyle back? Also, can you make staff good again? This game lacks a high AOE damage wizard. Again, I have to play holosmith for this feeling, as grenade mage is a better AOE burst mage than the actual mage class in this game.

I'm not sure where you came up with the idea that weaver must play glass cannon. That isn't consistent with my experience.

@Shiyo.3578 said:Base D/D Ele was exactly what I want from a class in this game. You had some support, you could run into entire mob packs(and enemy players!) and tank everything while doing good DPS.

Had?

I don't mean to add onto everyone invalidating your opinion here but uh ... core d/d is still pretty strong :DIn fact there are so many different builds that work with ele right now I can't even be asked to list them all since pretty much whatever playstyle you prefer has a build for it right now if you look hard enough or carefully craft a build for yourself.

Staff Weaver is also extremely good in zerg fights right now, although I share your pain with regard to staff roaming.

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Can cantha please allow me to do that?

Base D/D Ele was exactly what I want from a class in this game. You had some support, you could run into entire mob packs(and enemy players!) and tank everything while doing good DPS.However, since Weaver, ele has been turned into a "glass cannon" or a "support"(tempest). There is no longer a bruiser. I now I have to play holosmith(I don't even like engineer!) to get the old D/D ele feel back.

Can we please have an old playstyle back? Also, can you make staff good again? This game lacks a high AOE damage wizard. Again, I have to play holosmith for this feeling, as grenade mage is a better AOE burst mage than the actual mage class in this game.

Fire weaver instantly dies to +1. Fire weaver is very easily killed by entangle from rangers. Your mobility and disengage is far too low compared to other bruisers, and your sustain isn't high without sacrificing all your damage for sustain. You have zero ranged damage as sword/x and dagger/x.

There's a reason it's almost never, ever, ever played sidenode in SPvP except by the dedicated few elementalists left. Holosmith does everything weaver is supposed to do, except better.

Ele's trait lines force you into "pure tank" or "pure dps" - there is no way to be a bruiser. You're better off playing holosmith, which is EXACTLY what I do.

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Can cantha please allow me to do that?

Base D/D Ele was exactly what I want from a class in this game. You had some support, you could run into entire mob packs(and enemy players!) and tank everything while doing good DPS.However, since Weaver, ele has been turned into a "glass cannon" or a "support"(tempest). There is no longer a bruiser. I now I have to play holosmith(I don't even like engineer!) to get the old D/D ele feel back.

Can we please have an old playstyle back? Also, can you make staff good again? This game lacks a high AOE damage wizard. Again, I have to play holosmith for this feeling, as grenade mage is a better AOE burst mage than the actual mage class in this game.

Okay, well you started off talking about diving into mob packs, so I figured part of this at least referred to open world play, where weaver is exceptionally good at playing the bruiser! In fact, I'm about to add a video to my open world weaver thread of a Verdant Brink night meta boss trio solo. Three champions at once on a pure melee build! Does it get any more bruiser than that?

I'm not going to argue on the PvP side. Weaver isn't meta for all of the reasons you've provided. Regardless, I love the way my grieving hybrid sword weaver feels in PvP right now. I can beat holosmiths and druids with it. Yet, despite running glass stats, I can be surprisingly hard to kill. Is it a bruiser? I don't know. Maybe? You tell me!

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Can cantha please allow me to do that?

Base D/D Ele was exactly what I want from a class in this game. You had some support, you could run into entire mob packs(and enemy players!) and tank everything while doing good DPS.However, since Weaver, ele has been turned into a "glass cannon" or a "support"(tempest). There is no longer a bruiser. I now I have to play holosmith(I don't even like engineer!) to get the old D/D ele feel back.

Can we please have an old playstyle back? Also, can you make staff good again? This game lacks a high AOE damage wizard. Again, I have to play holosmith for this feeling, as grenade mage is a better AOE burst mage than the actual mage class in this game.

Holosmith is overtuned so enjoy it while it lasts.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAgilZwwYesMGKeeT3LNA-zZxsMyMB6tA8aA

Give it a try you might like it. Ayrun has a similar build ob youtube

@FrownyClown.8402 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Can cantha please allow me to do that?

Base D/D Ele was exactly what I want from a class in this game. You had some support, you could run into entire mob packs(and enemy players!) and tank everything while doing good DPS.However, since Weaver, ele has been turned into a "glass cannon" or a "support"(tempest). There is no longer a bruiser. I now I have to play holosmith(I don't even like engineer!) to get the old D/D ele feel back.

Can we please have an old playstyle back? Also, can you make staff good again? This game lacks a high AOE damage wizard. Again, I have to play holosmith for this feeling, as grenade mage is a better AOE burst mage than the actual mage class in this game.

Yeah, but there's zero signs of it ever being properly tuned, it's been bananas since PoF release. That build looks like it'd do zero damage to anyone and just be a meme tank. That isn't a bruiser to me.

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Can cantha please allow me to do that?

Base D/D Ele was exactly what I want from a class in this game. You had some support, you could run into entire mob packs(and enemy players!) and tank everything while doing good DPS.However, since Weaver, ele has been turned into a "glass cannon" or a "support"(tempest). There is no longer a bruiser. I now I have to play holosmith(I don't even like engineer!) to get the old D/D ele feel back.

Can we please have an old playstyle back? Also, can you make staff good again? This game lacks a high AOE damage wizard. Again, I have to play holosmith for this feeling, as grenade mage is a better AOE burst mage than the actual mage class in this game.

Sinister is probably better, and I've tried that build. It's damage is pretty high if someone is AFK or you get them in a CC combo but it's easily kited/avoided and suffers the issues I'm talking about - you die instantly to entangle/immob spam, high burst, stuns, CC chains, have low disengage/mobility and are easy to +1 by anyone competent.

Also yes, PvE matters to me too, when I can go PURE DPS on holosmith and take crystal config: eclipse(Zero dps loss) for 10k barrier every 5 seconds(assuming there's 5 mobs still alive) and thus be a brick wall while doing top DPS in raids, fracts, open world, and strikes, there's zero reason to play ele for me. Holosmith is just what weaver was meant to be, and what ele USED to be(d/d in vanilla dagger/warhorn in HoT).

Ele, especially Weaver, just has fundamentally broken design decisions that no other class has to deal with.Let's take weavers trait line for example, every single tier has the option of survival for a SIGNIFICANT DPS loss. Holosmith has this only in the first tier, while the 2nd tier is tons of barrier for 0% dps loss, while also having more base armor and health(~33% more hp) for free. Every other meta DPS build is perfectly fine solo/open world without changing a single trait or util or any gear - ele isn't. It will die very often running around with 11k hp in full zerker in full dps traits.This is an issue ONLY ele has to deal with, like it's being designed by a completely different person than every other class.

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@FrownyClown.8402 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Can cantha please allow me to do that?

Base D/D Ele was exactly what I want from a class in this game. You had some support, you could run into entire mob packs(and enemy players!) and tank everything while doing good DPS.However, since Weaver, ele has been turned into a "glass cannon" or a "support"(tempest). There is no longer a bruiser. I now I have to play holosmith(I don't even like engineer!) to get the old D/D ele feel back.

Can we please have an old playstyle back? Also, can you make staff good again? This game lacks a high AOE damage wizard. Again, I have to play holosmith for this feeling, as grenade mage is a better AOE burst mage than the actual mage class in this game.

Friend being able to hit 5k fire grabs and keep the sustain you want in spvp isnt realistic with the damage modifier changes. You need zerker stats to hit that high. Hybrid damage is the way to go imo. Here is valluns core build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAgilZwuYesM2JOyPvLNA-zZxsMysA6NBceA

@FrownyClown.8402 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@FrownyClown.8402 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Can cantha please allow me to do that?

Base D/D Ele was exactly what I want from a class in this game. You had some support, you could run into entire mob packs(and enemy players!) and tank everything while doing good DPS.However, since Weaver, ele has been turned into a "glass cannon" or a "support"(tempest). There is no longer a bruiser. I now I have to play holosmith(I don't even like engineer!) to get the old D/D ele feel back.

Can we please have an old playstyle back? Also, can you make staff good again? This game lacks a high AOE damage wizard. Again, I have to play holosmith for this feeling, as grenade mage is a better AOE burst mage than the actual mage class in this game.

While valluns build isn't bad, it shows how outdated mechanically it is and how many weaknesses it has. You instantly die to holosmiths, reapers(literally die in 3 hits to axe 5(no animation focus 5 + axe3 + axe2 - I actually saw this happen to vallun on stream multiple times) and other top tier builds.

Ele does just fine in open world. Zerker stats, divinity rune + vitality trait in weaver = 16k hp (17k in earth attunement) More than tanky enough to comfortably kill mobs. Damage is high enough to blow things up instantly.

I run Water/Arcane/Weaver for a good mix of damage, sustain, and cleanse, making open world painless go trek through.

Sometimes I run around as a tempest in full harrier gear. You would expect the damage to be low, but between the rediculous vuln you pump out, perma 25 might and fury, and hard hitting spells like lightning orb and wildfire, mobs blow up in no time. You're constantly on full hp thanks to perma regen, auras, protection, Soothing mist, and heal signet, so you won't die even with 11k hp.

In PvP, You can be somewhat bruiser-ish by running Valk amulet and thief rune on LR weaver. You'll have ~50% crit chance with fury plus 10% from perma weakness, so the damage loss isn't severe. ~19k hp (21k in earth) and good sustain, but still suceptible to conditions. It does not die as easily to being plussed. You have Stone Resonance, Obsidian Flesh, and Earth Shield as tools to help you kite. Nado can also come in handy, letting you force your attackers to go on the defensive.

Weaver is more bruiserish than D/D lmao.

Weaver has way more defensive oriented skills than D/D.

@Yasai.3549 said:Weaver is more bruiserish than D/D lmao.

Weaver has way more defensive oriented skills than D/D.

Bruiser that can't outlast anything 1v1?

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"Yasai.3549" said:Weaver is more bruiserish than D/D lmao.

Weaver has way more defensive oriented skills than D/D.

You know, I get that weaver is not meta and I've already said I agree with your criticisms of the build in conquest. But really? Weaver can't 1v1?

Holo nade is a popular pick for side node duelists, isn't it? And that's a tourney winner title my opponent is sporting, right? I have plenty of other videos of duels vs. high end competition, too. I'm not saying it's the greatest, but can't outlast anything in 1v1 seems way far from reality to me.

That's not outlasting, that's using your very long cooldown dodges to avoid all damage - that's like saying thief outlasts people in 1v1. Outlasting means sustain, which weaver doesn't have - it simply has long cds that any decent player will kite until you're out then kill you. You're basically a thief with zero disengage, bad mobility, and no stealth but instead have barrier.

That holo plays incredibly greedy and doesn't even disengage and reset vs you..

It's a pretty bad example, as I've literally never seen a holosmith do this vs anyone in SPvP. They will run away and stealth and kite you around pillars etc(giving up node, yeah) then once you're out of cds they kill you. This guy just goes complete braindead mode on you hoping his class will carry him.

Want to see a real bruiser? Go play scrapper, which can disengage at will, reset, and full heal anytime it wants. Even warrior can do this 1v1 still tbh.

Bruiser = sustain. outlasts opponents with self healing and medium damage.Weaver = evasive burst DPS

Weaver is just nothing like what people who enjoyed the old D/D ele or even ele in general playstyle. It's why feedback on weaver has been so harsh since it's release, and why if you play the game you rarely see any weavers, and mainly see tempests or even base elementalists in various forms of content(not just pvp where tempest obviously dominates due to support). The only people playing weaver ACTUALLY like weaver, but the entire "caster" archetype was removed from the game when they added weaver as it forced all "caster" players to play this weird melee dodge mage if they wanted to deal damage. The great staff gutting of 2018(I think? maybe 2019) was the final nail in the coffin to people who wanted to play a caster in this game.

You also had people who didn't like the mage style(staff/scepter) but enjoyed the bruisery high sustain style of D/D ele. Weaver has none of that, it's just a thief with barrier, zero disengage, and bad mobility. Base D/D bruiser is now so outdated that you can't even play it against anyone of equal skill without severely handicapping yourself. People enjoyed how water attunement was a lot of healing/support and how you were a hybrid jack of all trades. Weaver is nothing like that, it's simply an evasive DPS aka thief in cloth.

Why? Because anet wants you to play weaver for dps, and tempest for support. You aren't supposed to play base ele, or any type of bruiser.

Weaver destroyed this class for a lot of people. It's cool you like weaver, as I'm sure there's people who like it's super unique niche and super unique design, but was it worth the cost to alienate all the people who enjoy basic, normal, casters and a high sustain jack of all trades bruiser? I don't think so.

Necro suffers this same issue, in PvE it literally doesn't have a competitive condi build. NECROMANCER SUCKS at condi in PvE...what? All because Anet says "No, if you want to do dps, you play reaper". Why gut an iconic DOT caster and turn it into some weird glass cannon DPS that's so unheard of and doesn't really exist in normal RPGs? It's cool it's an option, just like weaver, but it's not cool when you intentionally force players onto that option and gut the iconic options(staff caster, dot caster necro).

Just baffling design decisions that alienate and upset the player base.

I mean, I could share a video of 1v1 against a top 10 scrapper, too. But it's beside the point. We more or less agree, I think and I'm not really opposed to any of the things you want. I am just inclined to enjoy weaver and I do quite well with it 1v1. You are clearly not inclined to enjoy weaver, whether you do well with it or not. I think we can both have what we want if ele gets some love.

What is medium damage to you?