Warrior needs a comeback next patch

After being away for years, I came back to find my beloved Warrior in a terrible state. The Defense Line has had it's passives absolutely nerfed into oblivion. I still want to play Berzerker and want to like him; the potential for a fun sustainable powerhouse of damage sounds great! But the sub class still leaves so much to be desired. The Elites feel underwhelming with bubbles everywhere, while everything else feels underwhelming compared to other ults. (Looking at you necro).We really need a comeback, as I can only play ranger for so long.What would you guys change? Also vanilla war needs love too.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Berserker_-_Condi_DPS

I found this build yesterday and it is really great. I love my warrior again. I use viper gear and just condition longbow. I do have sword/torch but haven't had to weapon swap. Definitely not what one would think of when thinking about a warrior but it does have survivability and dps. I love whomever made that build.

@"Tere.4759" said:https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Berserker_-_Condi_DPS

I found this build yesterday and it is really great. I love my warrior again. I use viper gear and just condition longbow. I do have sword/torch but haven't had to weapon swap. Definitely not what one would think of when thinking about a warrior but it does have survivability and dps. I love whomever made that build.

While that is certainly fun and strong his reference to the Defense line CDs implies competitive play not raids or fotm. Although some people have success with condi zerkers in competitive play so ymmv.

@gmmg.9210 It will take some acclimating but everything got hit hard in Feb. not just warrior, but some things hit warrior particularly hard, like the CC damage nerf.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"Tere.4759" said:

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Berserker_-_Condi_DPS

I found this build yesterday and it is really great. I love my warrior again. I use viper gear and just condition longbow. I do have sword/torch but haven't had to weapon swap. Definitely not what one would think of when thinking about a warrior but it does have survivability and dps. I love whomever made that build.

Actually, I don't PvP. I find this build very strong open world and I'm sure in fractals. If you know how to work it, why not. Raids, I could care less about.

I've actually been doing pretty well with Core Warrior roaming in WvW (Strength/Tactics/Discipline), even with some 1vX situations and still winning, however it does feel like an endlessly and inherent uphill struggle because of the kits that most other classes have access to. Its either the case of a class just practically vomiting boons onto itself, and a variety of them, or its classes having access to so many blinds that you might as well cut out your eyes all by yourself, or mobility that sends them 1700+ units away practically instantly (or up onto ledges) with very little cooldown, or none, or sustain that is still nowhere near having been reduced enough. Support classes are actually particularly strong right now.

Spellbreaker has boon strip, but its very limited and not near enough to actually counteract the sheer amount of boons that "meta" classes like Firebrand, Holosmith, Tempest, Scrapper, Soulbeast, etc apply to themselves on fairly short intervals. Necro is the only class that can actually counteract such things on a consistent enough level which is pretty much the entire reason why its considered more meta than it has been for quite some time, that and its health pool with the reduced damage.

I think the only thing Warrior has going for itself is very strong personal cleansing, at least in WvW. Sigil of Cleansing + Shake It Off + Mending + Brawler's Recovery and Warrior's Sprint (for immob specifically), but even then you're playing 80% defensively when in a fight with Condi based builds in WvW because Expertise hasn't been reduced and the frequency in which Conditions are applied is still higher than the rate at which you can cleanse in solo or small scale encounters.

It does genuinely feel like pretty much every class has tools specifically designed to counter Warrior, especially given how telegraphed our important skills tend to be. Eviscerate, Arcing Slice, Bull's Charge, Rush, Shield Bash, Full Counter, Rampage just in its entirety, Throw Axe, Bladetrail, Earthshaker, Backbreaker, Staggering Blow, Fierce Blow, and so many more. Now I know this isn't the case, or likely even the intention, but there are things that some classes do that have been overlooked for quite a long time that make them very unhealthy for gameplay. Warrior wasn't exempt from this for a good amount of time, Defy Pain mechanically worked the way it still does for 7 years with only changes to its ICD (and a change to proccing on 50% HP rather than 25% HP), Last Stand also remained the same since 2012 as a passive proc trait, with it getting Vigor and the Stance Duration increase in 2015 and Balanced Stance itself getting the "Immunity to Critical Hits" effect in 2017. Yet there are things like Druid Immob spam that have yet to be addressed, Engineer having near permanent Stability from Flamethrower (been seeing this a lot lately), Deadeye still being able to perma stealth which isn't so much of an issue in zergs in WvW or sPvP just at all (since you can't cap while stealthed), but its still really just annoying that it exists in the capacity that it does.

If Cmc does believe that Warrior is "around the ideal power level" then their next round of updates needs to hit on Boons a lot more than they did in the February patch for those specific classes that have so much access to them, as well as looking at a few other mechanics. There are some things with certain classes, and their mechanics, that inherently make them overbearing in competitive modes. This is particularly why I dislike Conquest as a template for deciding game balance, because the balance centers around how something affects a class in relation to the capture point as opposed to the class itself in a fight. Which is fine if you were only balancing things in particular for that mode, but the moment you introduce things like Deathmatch (which they have) the issues with classes become glaringly obvious just in which ones are used and abused. They just pigeon hole their balance and what they can conceivably do with it. They are also reluctant to change mechanics for classes because of how they might affect PvE, which I'm pretty sure is entirely why Sic Em still affects Beast Mode. If it didn't then Power Soulbeast would be next to worthless in PvE content like raids or even fractals, Condition would just overtake it entirely. Which is another way they have entirely pigeon holed their balance initiatives. If they are unable to change how a skill, trait, or mechanic works on a class for the health of their competitive modes out of concern for how drastically it might affect their PvE content...they need to take a much larger perspective on their games mechanics as a whole.

Sorry for the long post, I really do not have the cognitive skills necessary to make my thoughts concise.

It's not so much that warrior is bad, it's that other professions are too good. While the damage nerf is good, it left warrior hanging and gutted the damage it had, which wasn't much to begin with. It became one of the worst classes in spvp, and is the reason I finally QUIT after years of playing. Warrior is THAT disastrous in spvp. However, that's the thing with our class. It's easily the most durable in the game. Not to mention, this community throws a shit fit anytime warrior is one of the premier classes: "Grr! Unkillable!" "So much damage mitigation!" How do you buff it as such knowing its damage mitigation? > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

I've actually been doing pretty well with Core Warrior roaming in WvW (Strength/Tactics/Discipline), even with some 1vX situations and still winning, however it does feel like an endlessly and inherent uphill struggle because of the kits that most other classes have access to. Its either the case of a class just practically vomiting boons onto itself, and a variety of them, or its classes having access to so many blinds that you might as well cut out your eyes all by yourself, or mobility that sends them 1700+ units away practically instantly (or up onto ledges) with very little cooldown, or none, or sustain that is still nowhere near having been reduced enough. Support classes are actually particularly strong right now.

Spellbreaker has boon strip, but its very limited and not near enough to actually counteract the sheer amount of boons that "meta" classes like Firebrand, Holosmith, Tempest, Scrapper, Soulbeast, etc apply to themselves on fairly short intervals. Necro is the only class that can actually counteract such things on a consistent enough level which is pretty much the entire reason why its considered more meta than it has been for quite some time, that and its health pool with the reduced damage.

I think the only thing Warrior has going for itself is very strong personal cleansing, at least in WvW. Sigil of Cleansing + Shake It Off + Mending + Brawler's Recovery and Warrior's Sprint (for immob specifically), but even then you're playing 80% defensively when in a fight with Condi based builds in WvW because Expertise hasn't been reduced and the frequency in which Conditions are applied is still higher than the rate at which you can cleanse in solo or small scale encounters.

It does genuinely feel like pretty much every class has tools specifically designed to counter Warrior, especially given how telegraphed our important skills tend to be. Eviscerate, Arcing Slice, Bull's Charge, Rush, Shield Bash, Full Counter, Rampage just in its entirety, Throw Axe, Bladetrail, Earthshaker, Backbreaker, Staggering Blow, Fierce Blow, and so many more. Now I know this isn't the case, or likely even the intention, but there are things that some classes do that have been overlooked for quite a long time that make them very unhealthy for gameplay. Warrior wasn't exempt from this for a good amount of time, Defy Pain mechanically worked the way it still does for 7 years with only changes to its ICD (and a change to proccing on 50% HP rather than 25% HP), Last Stand also remained the same since 2012 as a passive proc trait, with it getting Vigor and the Stance Duration increase in 2015 and Balanced Stance itself getting the "Immunity to Critical Hits" effect in 2017. Yet there are things like Druid Immob spam that have yet to be addressed, Engineer having near permanent Stability from Flamethrower (been seeing this a lot lately), Deadeye still being able to perma stealth which isn't so much of an issue in zergs in WvW or sPvP just at all (since you can't cap while stealthed), but its still really just annoying that it exists in the capacity that it does.

If Cmc does believe that Warrior is "around the ideal power level" then their next round of updates needs to hit on Boons a lot more than they did in the February patch for those specific classes that have so much access to them, as well as looking at a few other mechanics. There are some things with certain classes, and their mechanics, that inherently make them overbearing in competitive modes. This is particularly why I dislike Conquest as a template for deciding game balance, because the balance centers around how something affects a class in relation to the capture point as opposed to the class itself in a fight. Which is fine if you were only balancing things in particular for that mode, but the moment you introduce things like Deathmatch (which they have) the issues with classes become glaringly obvious just in which ones are used and abused. They just pigeon hole their balance and what they can conceivably do with it. They are also reluctant to change mechanics for classes because of how they might affect PvE, which I'm pretty sure is entirely why Sic Em still affects Beast Mode. If it didn't then Power Soulbeast would be next to worthless in PvE content like raids or even fractals, Condition would just overtake it entirely. Which is another way they have entirely pigeon holed their balance initiatives. If they are unable to change how a skill, trait, or mechanic works on a class for the health of their competitive modes out of concern for how drastically it might affect their PvE content...they need to take a much larger perspective on their games mechanics as a whole.

Sorry for the long post, I really do not have the cognitive skills necessary to make my thoughts concise.

Yeah, spellbreaker(hue hue!) simply does NOT live up to its name! I use it as a cc spec.

Also, yeah, some elite specs have ruined these classes. Again, damage nerf is great, but I think elite specs will always be a problem. They promote ridiculously cancerous gameplay. Deadeye, Mirage, Holo are the biggest culprits. From a pvp standpoint, it's atrocious. Mobile classes like that simply should not that much damage! It's a big handicap to warriors, who have to work double just to catch them and hit them. (Warrior is very burst dependant) Then there are your boon-spamming specs, Firebrand, Scrapper, Tempest, Herald. Again...from a pvp standpoint, it's atrocious. They promote so much active and passive boon-spamming, and on top of that, there's barely any counter to them minus necro and the supposed "spellbreaker"! Then, yup, there is the constant evade, cripple, immob and blind spam. Rangers, Daredevil, Weaver are notorious for this. AGAIN, this hurts warriors. These cripple warriors' mobility and ability to hit their targets.

Honestly, you ask me, I feel that this community simply can't handle a properly tuned warrior. They'll riot!

@"JTGuevara.9018" said:It's not so much that warrior is bad, it's that other professions are too good. While the damage nerf is good, it left warrior hanging and gutted the damage it had, which wasn't much to begin with. It became one of the worst classes in spvp, and is the reason I finally QUIT after years of playing. Warrior is THAT disastrous in spvp. However, that's the thing with our class. It's easily the most durable in the game. Not to mention, this community throws a kitten fit anytime warrior is one of the premier classes: "Grr! Unkillable!" "So much damage mitigation!" How do you buff it as such knowing its damage mitigation? > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

I've actually been doing pretty well with Core Warrior roaming in WvW (Strength/Tactics/Discipline), even with some 1vX situations and still winning, however it does feel like an endlessly and inherent uphill

struggle

because of the kits that most other classes have access to. Its either the case of a class just practically vomiting boons onto itself, and a variety of them, or its classes having access to

so many blinds that you might as well cut out your eyes all by yourself

, or mobility that sends them 1700+ units away practically instantly (or up onto ledges) with very little cooldown, or none, or sustain that is

still

nowhere near having been reduced enough. Support classes are actually particularly strong right now.

Spellbreaker has boon strip, but its

very

limited and not near enough to actually counteract the sheer amount of boons that "meta" classes like Firebrand, Holosmith, Tempest, Scrapper, Soulbeast, etc apply to themselves on fairly short intervals. Necro is the only class that can actually counteract such things on a consistent enough level which is pretty much the entire reason

why

its considered more meta than it has been for quite some time, that and its health pool with the reduced damage.

I think the only thing Warrior has going for itself is very strong personal cleansing, at least in WvW. Sigil of Cleansing + Shake It Off + Mending + Brawler's Recovery and Warrior's Sprint (for immob specifically), but even then you're playing 80% defensively when in a fight with Condi based builds in WvW because Expertise hasn't been reduced and the frequency in which Conditions are applied is still higher than the rate at which you can cleanse in solo or small scale encounters.

It does genuinely feel like pretty much every class has tools specifically designed to counter Warrior, especially given how telegraphed our important skills tend to be. Eviscerate, Arcing Slice, Bull's Charge, Rush, Shield Bash, Full Counter, Rampage just in its entirety, Throw Axe, Bladetrail, Earthshaker, Backbreaker, Staggering Blow, Fierce Blow, and so many more. Now I know this isn't the case, or likely even the intention, but there are things that some classes do that have been overlooked for

quite a long time

that make them very unhealthy for gameplay. Warrior wasn't exempt from this for a good amount of time, Defy Pain mechanically worked the way it still does for 7 years with only changes to its ICD (and a change to proccing on 50% HP rather than 25% HP), Last Stand also remained the same since 2012 as a passive proc trait, with it getting Vigor and the Stance Duration increase in 2015 and Balanced Stance itself getting the "Immunity to Critical Hits" effect in 2017. Yet there are things like Druid Immob spam that have yet to be addressed, Engineer having near permanent Stability from Flamethrower (been seeing this a lot lately), Deadeye still being able to

perma stealth

which isn't so much of an issue in zergs in WvW or sPvP just at all (since you can't cap while stealthed), but its still really just annoying that it exists in the capacity that it does.

If Cmc does believe that Warrior is "around the ideal power level" then their next round of updates needs to hit on Boons a lot more than they did in the February patch for those specific classes that have

so much

access to them, as well as looking at a few other mechanics. There are some things with certain classes, and their mechanics, that inherently make them overbearing in competitive modes. This is particularly why I dislike Conquest as a template for deciding game balance, because the balance centers around how something affects a class in relation to the capture point as opposed to the class itself in a

fight

. Which is fine if you were only balancing things in particular for that mode, but the moment you introduce things like Deathmatch (which they have) the issues with classes become glaringly obvious just in which ones are used and abused. They just pigeon hole their balance and what they can conceivably do with it. They are also reluctant to change mechanics for classes because of how they might affect PvE, which I'm pretty sure is entirely why Sic Em still affects Beast Mode. If it didn't then Power Soulbeast would be next to worthless in PvE content like raids or even fractals, Condition would just overtake it entirely. Which is another way they have entirely pigeon holed their balance initiatives. If they are unable to change how a skill, trait, or mechanic works on a class for the health of their competitive modes out of concern for how drastically it might affect their PvE content...they need to take a much larger perspective on their games mechanics as a whole.

Sorry for the long post, I really do not have the cognitive skills necessary to make my thoughts concise.

Well thats because warrior is to most a dumb guy with a big weapon, no match for my weeby thief or my magic spam. Warrior was my main and was taken by Rev in Hot and I flop between the two with a side of ranger. When they removed damage from cc's and from full counter Spellbreaker fell off, I honestly feel like core is the ONLY version of warrior that is good anymore.... the rest just feel like wasted space when it comes to any form of PvP and as someone who doesn't and never will care about raids that means the class is essentially dead outside of open world PvE and maybe Fractals.. But heck even rev isn't in a much better place. Like herald is not as good as it was, and the class itself is beginning to suffer a slow burn to where warrior is.

Which sucks because both of my mains (my warrior was my first character ever... back at launch...) in this situation I might just end up not coming around as much until next expansion.... (of course ill show up for episodes because "Free new content".)

@"JTGuevara.9018" said:Yeah, spellbreaker(hue hue!) simply does NOT live up to its name!

And so does berserker. For me the warrior's e-specs don't really have fitting names while their mechanisms tend to be too ambitious for underwhelming results.

The very first thing that set me off at HoT was berserker leaning heavily on condition damage while we had already an overly popular stat set bearing the berserker name that was purely powerbased. And then, the concept: entering a stance and using bursts more often... Seriously? I can't say that there wasn't an awful lot of work behind since each weapon gained an extra burst but... That was disappointing and none of what they did to it afterward washed away this disappointment.

Spellbreaker, which should be more "boonbreaker", fail due to the design of the CCs in the game. The game lean to heavily on "slow" casted CCs that leave a lasting effect on foes in order to preemptively fix them in a spot so that you can develop your A game while a "spellbreaker" sound more like a specialization that use CC reactively to prevent "spells" from being casted, someone that interupt.

It's not that ANet's ideas weren't neet (You really can feel what they want to convey), but the game isn't really fitting for what they designed (and how it was designed) which lead to the disappointing results.

It is funny, because everything about warrior except full counter and main hand dagger is only made to kill AIs and not for pvp.

that's why i mained rev since HoT release and mained holo for PoF.even tho i have almost 6k ranked games with war, but all played pre HoT. i literally gave up on war since hot.they don't care about warrior at all.

even pre HoT, without powercreep on all the mechanics, not just numbers (FB, holo, reaper, daredevil etc)warrior is already a push over in pvp, warrior was never mandatory except for when it is overpowered for maybe like 2 months,all warrior players competed in ESL pre HoT are multi classers, because warrior is literally not wanted unless overpowered, even pre expansion.

now even they nerfed all numbers backyet warrior suck even more.because they keep limiting mechanics for warrior yet everybody else's mechanics are already over the top.on top of that removing damager on all CCs literally shaves warrior's already limited mechanics even more

they most likely made full counter and main hand dagger with pvp in mind, but that's after years of being garbage.but even with full counter and dagger, it doesn't cover the fact that the rest of the class are made only to kill AIs.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"JTGuevara.9018" said:Yeah, spellbreaker(hue hue!) simply does NOT live up to its name!

Well ANet definitely focuses too heavily on the "theme" aspect of a particular Elite Spec rather than, it seems, the actual mechanics and how they function in the game. Look at the Berserker rework, the way it works and what they changed definitely feels heavily, heavily influenced by the "theme" they were trying to apply to the Elite Spec, rather than any consideration for its position in the game, or very little consideration. Sure, it boosted its damage in PvE, but they removed a lot of what even made Berserker fun and actually play well in HoT. Thats why its a one trick pony gimmick spec that is primarily used for the meme stuff like Arc Divider and Gunflame. BDO does a better job of splitting its skills between PvP and PvE for balancing purposes and the way they do it isn't exactly overly complicated despite having an arguably more complicated combat system.

Mauling it over in my head, I think warrior is gonna be in this state until next expansion..... maybe even beyond that... and likely until the brink of the end.

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Mauling it over in my head, I think warrior is gonna be in this state until next expansion..... maybe even beyond that... and likely until the brink of the end.

never, arena has been breaking the warrior for 8 years already, and then it gets worse - believe me.

@KIIIL.1860 said:

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:Mauling it over in my head, I think warrior is gonna be in this state until next expansion..... maybe even beyond that... and likely until the brink of the end.

yea, well rev is right behind them. Maybe everyone should just dog-pile guardian and make it "Guardian Wars 2"

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@KIIIL.1860 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Mauling it over in my head, I think warrior is gonna be in this state until next expansion..... maybe even beyond that... and likely until the brink of the end.

the petition is yours. ))

@KIIIL.1860 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@KIIIL.1860 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Mauling it over in my head, I think warrior is gonna be in this state until next expansion..... maybe even beyond that... and likely until the brink of the end.

it's already the most played class...

@Aveigel.2601 said:it's already the most played class...

I'm assuming you're getting this information from GW2Efficiency?

That doesn't mean that it is in a good place for PvP. It might have a presence in PvE, and even in zergs to some extent, but how much it is played isn't reminiscent of how well it is actually performing. Keep in mind, GW2 is much more vastly populated by more casual players who spend a majority, if not all, of their time in PvE related content. sPvP has a much lower population, WvW as well, so out of whichever number of players you're seeing playing Warrior on GW2Efficiency, only a tiny % of them are actually participating in PvP due to Warriors current state.

@Aveigel.2601 said:it's already the most played class...

Because of key farmers. Human warrior has the quickest route to the lvl 10 weekly key.

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Aveigel.2601 said:it's already the most played class...

Yes, yes, I know there is a preference in this forum to bring everything down to pvp, because that's where Warrior flaws are most blatant as you have direct competition vs other classes and thus generate more discussion/rant threads, esp based on the ratio of players posting vs spvp than anything else...

@Aveigel.2601 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Aveigel.2601 said:it's already the most played class...

The thread is PVP/WvW related though.

@Aveigel.2601 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Aveigel.2601 said:it's already the most played class...

Well...yes. When Warrior is being spoken about in that particular vein of discussion, i.e it not performing very well, it is highly likely PvP/WvW is the relating content in question. Warrior doesn't really have a lot of issues in PvE content, it has a presence in Raids and Fractals and literally every class does absolutely fine in Open World because its the easiest content available in the game and if someone is struggling with that...thats player issue, not the game.

Warrior does still see use in zergs, but so much more in a support capacity with Spellbreaker with running full Minstrel gear and Warhorn, and Berserker is just the bullet you load into the gun because it does one thing and one thing only; Arc Divider.

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Aveigel.2601 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Aveigel.2601 said:it's already the most played class...

Two things good sir, Arc Divider and Gunflame.

Ya.. warrior is not doing good in any game mode. It is alright in PvE, but probably the worst performing class.

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Aveigel.2601 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Aveigel.2601 said:it's already the most played class...

I love the little touch if trying to pin player issue/skill on me, it's quite refreshing and charming. I bet you do what with many people to try to lift your little chicken off the ground a little more as if it could fly though it can only glide.

why do you even bother writing that shit down? are you so sad you need it to feel a little better? if so come again, I don't mind, I don't get affected by that crap XD

@Aveigel.2601 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Aveigel.2601 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Aveigel.2601 said:it's already the most played class...

I was not, in the slightest, directing that at you. I was merely making a comment that the Open World PvE in GW2 is extremely easy to get through, not that you personally are not capable of playing this game well. I was not pinning anything on you. I'm aware I said "you're" but it was meant more in a generalized context, not personally singling you out. I can see how that got misunderstood. I'll edit that so that there isn't further misunderstanding.