Pure Shout Guardian is surprisingly close to be a thing in sPvP

With the recent 2 charge buff for „Retreat“ and an overall good heal skill in „Receive the Light“ a viable 100% Shout Guardian spec might have great potential to return to the sPvP meta. However there is one issue making that close to impossible, running the Honor Grandmaster Trait „Pure of Voice“ (Shout Trait) is a bad choice to take for any Guardian spec compared to the viability „Writ of Persistence“ (Symbol Trait) offers in a team fight through our symbols. It alone enables many Guardian builds at the moment.So I wanted to ask if it might be possible to switch the places of „Pure of Voice“ with „Protective Reviver“ since it would instantly revive the old shout Guardian spec that was pretty much the first ever Core Guardian meta build right after release, right before Meditation Guardian became a thing. I think it might maybe be worth a try since it is basically the nerfed version of what it used to be. 20% cooldown reduction for shouts as well as 1 condition conversion without Rune of Soldier isn‘t too much of an effect considering the AoE condition removal effects that by now entered the game since release and the generally high cooldown of shout skills. I would love to see Shout Only Guardians rejoin the Meta :)

Ok I have a question then if they were to swap "Protective Reviver" to the Grand Master tier. If this were to happen hopefully they would improve it's overall effectiveness in some way in consideration that it is now a GM trait and not leave it as it is. What are your personal ideas for a reasonable upgrade to this trait, an easy one would be have it just give the guardian a bonus to healing power either as a straight number or as a percentage off of another stat.

I do not think that will enough. If we are going support path, FB is better, due to tomes. There is no competition. If we are going damage, using honor is so much weaker than valor. In sPvP mediations >>>>>> shouts. Not only they provide better healing (so much better). They also provide so much better cleansing.

Currently, only shout even worth putting on your utility bar is Save Yourselves. And even that is questionable. Retreat is weak. Hold the line is garbage. Receive the light is meh if you are support and unuseable for dps. Again here for dps, LoW >>>>>>>>>>> receive the light. I do not think I would ever consider FmW over RI. It is tempting, but you give up so much survivability. Lastly, stand your ground. This was the shout. That is of course before its CD increased by 50%. Not useable with 45 secs CD.

You have to rework retreat, hold the line and receive the light. Full rework, not reduce CD or charges bull shit. Save yourselves and stand your ground need reduced CD. Honor needs some tweaks. Pure of Heart needs rework.

I must confess. I've had some nice memes time with core shout soldier rune guard. But a meme is still a meme :(

To me, the only real shout worth slotting is syg. The others either provide nothing of value, have too long of a cd or both.

@"otto.5684" said:I do not think that will enough. If we are going support path, FB is better, due to tomes. There is no competition. If we are going damage, using honor is so much weaker than valor. In sPvP mediations >>>>>> shouts. Not only they provide better healing (so much better). They also provide so much better cleansing.

Currently, only shout even worth putting on your utility bar is Save Yourselves. And even that is questionable. Retreat is weak. Hold the line is garbage. Receive the light is meh if you are support and unuseable for dps. Again here for dps, LoW >>>>>>>>>>> receive the light. I do not think I would ever consider FmW over RI. It is tempting, but you give up so much survivability. Lastly, stand your ground. This was the shout. That is of course before its CD increased by 50%. Not useable with 45 secs CD.

You have to rework retreat, hold the line and receive the light. Full rework, not reduce CD or charges bull kitten. Save yourselves and stand your ground need reduced CD. Honor needs some tweaks. Pure of Heart needs rework.

Shouts aren't as bad as many people believe

"Receive The Light!": Solid 7k heal for yourself and around 5k for team mates on Menders amulet"Stand Your Ground!": I mean we all know this is the most important shout, Stability & Retaliation"Retreat!": Double charge Aegis & Swiftness, works incredibly with the "Pure Of Heart", "Shattered Aegis" or "Rune Of Speed""Save Yourselves!": Condi Cleanse for all your team mates, works only good with a strong condition cleanse right after, I admit that

and all can be paired with Rune Of Soldier to cleanse 1 extra condition from all allies. They really aren't that bad, the only problem is that they have unbelievably long cooldowns for little & one sided return (some boons). Making a trait that simply isn't worth of being called a grandmaster trait in "Pure Of Voice" an adept trait would instantly make shouts more attractive. Don't misunderstand me, I don't think that Shout Guardians will start to outperform other possible specs, since shouts offer as stated far too little reward, but at least it would make shouts somewhat viable to play. It would be worth a try and the nostalgia infused hype would be unreal lol

@ollbirtan.2915 said:I must confess. I've had some nice memes time with core shout soldier rune guard. But a meme is still a meme :(

Just thinking about it reminds me of the times where Battle Of Kyhlo, Forest of Niflhel and Legacy Of Foefire were the only maps available. Imagine there was a time where some boons were considered actual support :#I miss those times

@snoow.1694 you cannot make a build around shouts. Core support could utilise shouts. But they are not that strong to be reliable. You are better off just going g the FB route. FB uses honor anyway.

Dps cannot be built with shouts. You will lose on both healing and condi cleanse big time.

As Arken said, only save yourselves is even worth a utility slot.

@otto.5684 said:@snoow.1694 you cannot make a build around shouts. Core support could utilise shouts. But they are not that strong to be reliable. You are better off just going g the FB route. FB uses honor anyway.

Dps cannot be built with shouts. You will lose on both healing and condi cleanse big time.

As Arken said, only save yourselves is even worth a utility slot.

Well the thing is I have already tested Shout Firebrand in Plat, won 3 games and lost only 1 - they turned out to be more useful than Mantras. Healing through „Receive the Light!“ outperforms „Mantra Of Solace“ and the condition cleanse outperforms „Mantra Of Lore“. „Retreat!“ adds to your sustain by being able to kite effectively (also heals you 2 times for 3-4K in team fights) and as you said „Stand Your Ground“, since it is overall useful.However, as I said, there isn‘t a single Guardian who is right in his head that would prefer smaller and shorter Symbols for 20% cooldown reduction and one condition transformation into a boon, the trade off is simply not going to happen, because „Pure of Voice“ offers too little benefits. And again, I don’t expect Shouts to be better than other possible builds, but I think moving „Pure Of Voice“ to adept tier would certainly make people run them more often. The goal is not to make the next broken Guardian build, but to add underused skills to the skill bar of people