Can Herald be good?

I've played herald since HoT came out, and I have a good time playing it. Buuut there seems to be some sort of stigma against it. Herald, in the eyes of many, is just not that good (except in wvw yay!) I was wondering if anyone has any possibly unorthodox builds that could bring herald back to relevance?

@"JekthAvid.1408" said:I've played herald since HoT came out, and I have a good time playing it. Buuut there seems to be some sort of stigma against it. Herald, in the eyes of many, is just not that good (except in wvw yay!) I was wondering if anyone has any possibly unorthodox builds that could bring herald back to relevance?

In wvw/pvp its pretty decent.In PvE its not. The problem is that it lacks quite some damage. Its support: can be ok. Facet of nature is underwhelming, Assassince Presence is good, Boons are meh, cuz everyone can give those to themself too (or just a firebrand).

The best builds imo arefor raids: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAwyZlpQMMLyjdRdMMijJSksCigJ7lZ7E-efor fracs and dungeons: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAwyZlpQMMLyjdRdMMijJSksCigJ7ld7G-e (or with glint-Dwarf, if stab-lack is massive problem)

But to that, even with max damage, it would still only be able to hit around max. 33k damage ,which is atm not that good.It lacks some kind of burst. Other classes ,like soulbeasts, can reach way higher damage (~38k dps) ,with available burst, whilst having extreme buffs through its stance-sharing.Even power-renegade with 34k dps is better than power herald. Higher damage, higher support (renegade elite + 50% condi-weakening from heal), Assass.Pre. & might, protection etc.

So overall ,herald is something that people can work with (like if looking for a power-dps), but its biggest problem is definetly its damage + the non-availability of an burst.But sadly ,there are maaaany toxic people out there that only want group compositions like from snowcrows or Discretize. Many are using power herald as a joke, even though its not Thaat terrible.

i also opened a thread of possible (some tiny) herald-changes, that could bring it definitely back into relevance. But anet abandoned herald together with wvw

IMO the reason herald is bad today is because they have removed the very essence of Herald : boons and boon duration (F2).Yes, DPS was really high at the beginning, but it was the marketing ("buy Hot, get OP elite specs") so it could be nerfed; it seems to be coherent. Then they started to nerf F2, 50% BD for the group, becomes 33%, then 20% but only for the herald and random effects. Why ?33% was okai, even 20% but for the group, why remove it ? It was the only skill (after nerf of DPS) which made Herald viable in raids : the chrono, the druid, the PS war, etc could play with less boon duration, less buff, less support traits etc, and in balance you had low/correct DPS.

Herald should take back its role : share boons, increase boon duration.May be something less passive, : Only 15% but for the group, you keep the core value+ draconic echo effects : for 10 players and +3sec to boons. Same on shield which is useless : crystal hibernation "pulse heals and +1sec to boons on allies for every boons you consume" or some traits : shared empowrement "+1sec to allies' boons when you consume a facet", etc.There is way to give back this "niche" role to herald without making it mandatory in the "only effective meta, and you can't play any differently. " Otherwise herald will stay a uneffective might bot with very low dps.

@JekthAvid.1408 said:I've played herald since HoT came out, and I have a good time playing it. Buuut there seems to be some sort of stigma against it. Herald, in the eyes of many, is just not that good (except in wvw yay!) I was wondering if anyone has any possibly unorthodox builds that could bring herald back to relevance?

Herald has the strongest builds of the class in PvP/WvW, and in PvE, albeit lacking the peak dps numbers of the Renegade has better sustain (condi Herald is just better than any other class/build at surviving in PvE). You can argue that Herald isn't wellcomed to raids, but who cares? Raids are already abandoned content...

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:IMO the reason herald is bad today is because they have removed the very essence of Herald : boons and boon duration (F2).

??? What.

@Shao.7236 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:IMO the reason herald is bad today is because they have removed the very essence of Herald : boons and boon duration (F2).

??? What.

Check sig ... Basically, the concept wasn't sound ... so they reworked it. Honestly, Herald v1 was way too passive gameplay. People can argue from a performance perspective all they like .. but that's not how Anet sees things.

I don't think there are many builds that favour it for teaming since the change.

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:IMO the reason herald is bad today is because they have removed the very essence of Herald : boons and boon duration (F2).

"The Legendary Dragon Stance version does not add concentration; instead, it gives +20% duration to any boons applied, regardless of the source. This can go above the boon duration cap, allowing up to +120% boon duration."

@Shao.7236 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:IMO the reason herald is bad today is because they have removed the very essence of Herald : boons and boon duration (F2).

???And.

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:IMO the reason herald is bad today is because they have removed the very essence of Herald : boons and boon duration (F2).

The problem is not boon duration. It is what type of boons and how often. Fury, reg and protection are common boons. You ain’t going to see play time for these. No quickness or alacrity so no support option. The Might Herald Provides is too little to matter.

IMO, if power herald is to be a thing in group pve, it needs a bit higher damage and the ability to stack 25 might to 5 players. This could easily give it a spot in grouped pve.

For damage, IMO it needs to be tied to herald utilities. It has some, but it needs more.

pve ? fractal/dungions ? if this is chill non meta friendly party - why not? welcome

@otto.5684 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:IMO the reason herald is bad today is because they have removed the very essence of Herald : boons and boon duration (F2).

It has never been.See it like a support support. Not a pillar.+50% BD, even 33% was huge back in the days. Also because we didn't have diviner and harrier but only commander and some runes, but even today it means chrono can go full berserker/assassin, same for FB, Ren; and it helps everybody to maintain 25 mights, fury, retaliation, protection, ... You should say "Yeah but we already do" but this isn't true, there are always hollows in buffs, because druid is shifted or Ren doesn't know where are F- keys, especially in pugs or for some classes like Weaver with few to no self-buff.

If you add more Damage to be a correct DPS you will only bring down an other DPS in the list and hear new complaints. If you add a support niche you steal nobody; it will just be like the second healer : not "mandatory" but comfortable.

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:IMO the reason herald is bad today is because they have removed the very essence of Herald : boons and boon duration (F2).

I am not sure what you are looking for. I gave you a support niche; stacking might. Boon duration improvement is not a support niche. It is mostly irrelevant. It was at HoT release, but that was 5 years ago. The game changed a lot since then. And without some extra damage, it won’t matter, cuz Druid, FB and renegade can stack 25 might. So the might stacking alone is not enough. You need both. And healing would not work, cuz, again FB and renegade can do that, while stacking might and quickness/alacrity. Healing is not a niche. Though healing + 25 might + 100% reg + 100 protection could theoretically work as Druid alternative.

@otto.5684 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:IMO the reason herald is bad today is because they have removed the very essence of Herald : boons and boon duration (F2).

If you ignore voluntarily all the points yes.

@otto.5684 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:IMO the reason herald is bad today is because they have removed the very essence of Herald : boons and boon duration (F2).

in a matter of healing, herald/ventari is canoutput more overall healing than druid, except some skills and avatar mode healing burst, the 2 together in pve m8 not use fully dedicated geear, and use something like zealots, marshal, or similiar stats.

In therory u coud get a Dps class with teambloacks wise an stability and use herald/ventary as your healer, since its a perma 1.1k regen tick for 10 players, druid regen will be stronger way much stronger but just in some ocasions.

I'm just gonna go ahead and say the reason Herald sucks is because Renegade simply does the job better.

Ignoring the Rev portion of the package, Herald on its own does not actually provide alot of "goodness" which other support builds do, in addition to the core two Boons everyone wants and not every build has access to : Alacrity and Quickness.

Being unable to grant any of these two boons as a support means yu have to bring something else to the table, be it extremely good healing uptime or pretty nice damage.Both of which it cannot provide. (Healing partly of how stupid Rev is when it comes to all healing being stuck onto Ventari, and hell, Renegade does heals better too)

So being unable to do any of these nice things "well", Herald has been classified as "meh" and "decent" and in most cases when it comes to CM Fractals and Raids : "Not good enough"

TLDR: Herald isn't bad because it's bad, it's bad because it's not good enough.

@"Yasai.3549" said:

TLDR: Herald isn't bad because it's bad, it's bad because it's not good enough.

Interesting, Herald with more boons would be to much as well :\ Herald it kinda works like a batery necro from Gw1 and a Paragon., maybe the shield should be "fixed" providing as well upkeeps???

Sometimes i dont need to swap to ventari since its more to catch spikes, sometimes staff and shield are enought for it.