So what is the purpose of core Engineer now?

To be fair, its role hasn't changed much through the release of each of the expansions. With subsequent patches and the blanket nerf to damage and cooldowns a while back though, it's starting to feel like core Engi just doesn't offer anything.

I used to play a core Rifle Power build before the big boi balance patch that was actually quite strong. By no means could it compete with a meta build, but it did great for what it was and I rarely felt like a fight wasn't winnable. Now however, with the damage reduction and cooldown increases to Rifle, among other things, I don't feel that the build works anymore.

This isn't a complaint about the death of a build I enjoyed though, just making a statement that although core has felt weak for quite some time, there were still times it was playable.

That aside, what does core offer that Holo and Scrapper don't? An F5 for the elites and an extra trait line? That seems to be all. Although not every profession has something significant to offer with its core counterpart over its elites, at least they gain something of value. The only things I'd say are valuable about taking core are the Toolbelt F5's for Supply Drop and Elixir X, and neither of those feel worth giving up Scrapper or Holo for.

This is coming from someone who's a complete masochist and loves to play weird, often objectively bad builds because I find them more fun. I like to see what I can achieve while being handicapped, and I enjoy that challenge.(Side note, I recently came back after a 3+ month break. I'd have written this a lot sooner after the big patch otherwise).Now, I don't even feel that challenge to be fun because I don't see any strengths to exploit. There's nothing to grasp on to to make me say "yeah, that could work!"

Right now, I have a core Pistol/Shield Inventions Power build I've been using since pre-patch. It still works, but it's a lot weaker than my Rifle build was. It's kind of like a scuffed P/S Prot Holo that uses Bomb Kit instead of Photon Forge for it's primary source of damage.

I love Engi dearly but lately it just makes me sad to play. I don't know what to do with it, and I'm bored with it. Core needs something... But I have no suggestions or thoughts on what that should be.

P.S.I'm sorry this was mostly a rant about my feelings for the state of Engi instead of something more constructive. I just wanted to get it off my chest to see what others had to say.

I had a very similar rant to someone like a month or two ago.

Currently core engineer feels like you have to put all your eggs into one basket, speccing heavily into damage, or sustain. Sadly elite specs currently does these better, so core feels underperforming compared to those. And sadly it is in this state because of said elites. After the february patch, core power 'nade felt like an up-to-date build, that could fight others as an equal. Then they nerfed several core abilities and traits, because they overperformed on Holosmith.

Currently I'm running a glasscannon core power 'nader, with Explo-Firearms-Tools. Otherwise I feel like the damage isn't there, to justify myself as an useful part of the team. It obviously dies quickly to burst, and condi spam, so knowing what to dodge, when to use my limited mobility and condi cleanse, as well as picking my fights are crucial. This build honestly feels rewarding to play, especially when the more mobile enemies ignore me, so I can freeload my whole damage kit into the teamfight.

As for spreading out your build to multiple directions, and trying to make a jack of all trades, my experiments usually ended up with jack of no trades. You don't have the damage to down anyone, on the other hand, you have no sustain to survive anything, or no control to call yourself at least a bit useful.

If you are looking for stuff that still deals damage, and generally unutilized, there are several of them, that can be interesting, if you make a build around them:

• Toolkit. While I couldn't make a build that could make it work, it theorically has the potential. The AA chain ends with a 1.75 coeff. ability, and Crowbar, as well as Gear Shield and Magnet are pretty strong skills.
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Drop_Mine Streamlined Kits - Grenade Kit. This mine hits very hard, and has no set-up delay (this should be fixed, tbh). While you can't build a whole build around this, game gets a bit more interesting when you start to play around this, and try to include it in your combos. My duel buddy quckly realised that this is a must avoid thing.
• Majority of the kits left unnerfed during the february patch. I believe you can make builds that utilize these. I had one using Medkit, E-gun, 'Nade kit, and Toolkit. I dropped this build because it was really hard to play, compared to other builds, and after the latest round of grenade nerfs, the damage weren't there to be able to run this as a damage dealer. I believe someone with better skills than me can make it work, tho'.

I hear you. I played core engi exclusively for several months (primarily WvW) and tried every combination under the sun but the damage simply isn’t there. The main issue is that core lacks an effective main hand weapon. Rifle is sort of ok, but pistols are an absolute joke especially since they have barely any power damage and the conditions they may apply are easily cleansed. I eventually gave up and went back to power scrapper and I won’t be going back.

@Jaruselka.5943 said:I hear you. I played core engi exclusively for several months (primarily WvW) and tried every combination under the sun but the damage simply isn’t there. The main issue is that core lacks an effective main hand weapon. Rifle is sort of ok, but pistols are an absolute joke especially since they have barely any power damage and the conditions they may apply are easily cleansed. I eventually gave up and went back to power scrapper and I won’t be going back.

Yeah, Anet was way too restrictive with core engineer's weapon choices.We have a total of just 3 possible combinations on core: rifle, pistol/shield, pistol/pistol.

Considering that we can't swap weapons in combat to compensate for kits, I don't think narrowing our choices that much was really necessary.Look at elementalist, they also have mechanics that give them additional weapon skills with attunements. But they still have a total of 10 possible weapon combinations for their builds.

What I miss the most is 1 power mainhand weapon and 1 power offhand weapon, on top of improving mainhand pistol.Shield is more utility/support oriented, so having a power offhand would help and also add a possible damage offhand weapon for power holos.

My own choice would have been either axe or mace as the mainhand power weapon and torch as the power offhand weapon.There are several torch skins I would like to use on my engineer and also it would be interesting to have a solely power damage scaling torch on a profession, since all torches so far are dealing alot of damage through burning or other conditions.

If turrets scaled with stats and worked better they could be cores focus.

Oh I still use core condi engineer in WvW that I've been running since they nerfed the scrapper barrier and made condi useless on that elite, but of course its range of use is fairly limited. Its not like its the frontline dps in a zerg. But moa elixir shouldnt be underestimated, that thing has won me many fights and given me more laughs than I can count. Its really, really hard to argue whether it beat scrapper and holo since 95% of scrappers are minstrels (ie isnt any threat and require you to 5v1 them anyway), holos are pretty rare nowadays and most run glassier combos that I'm well equipped to outsustain.

Bumping this just so I don't have to make another thread about my current gripe.

I'm seeing Grenade Scrappers everywhere lately and I hate it, Grenade Barrage with Explosive Entrance is broken as frig hitting for like 15 - 25k. It's like if you don't take Explosives you hit like a potato and if you do take it you're building around a trait that is fundamentally broken.

ANet needs to give some damage back to Rifle and/or revert the cooldown changes, nerf the heck out of Explosive Entrance, make at least a few other changes to the Explosives line, and buff some other things to make Explosives less appealing. Ideally without buffing Scrapper and Holosmith, though of course any buffs to Rifle will also effect the elites.

I've been ignoring my Engi for a few weeks now because I'm burnt out. I've tried so many different builds looking for things that work and I just can't find something. The only two things I have that are usable (and that hardly even means viable) is the build I spoke of in the OP, a Pistol/Shield power build that's similar in concept to pre-nerf Prot Holo (and big surprise, it uses Explosives), and a P/P condi Holo. Every other thing I've tried is crap and all I see all over the place are Engi's memeing with Grenade Barrage.

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Bumping this just so I don't have to make another thread about my current gripe.

I'm seeing Grenade Scrappers everywhere lately and I hate it, Grenade Barrage with Explosive Entrance is broken as frig hitting for like 15 - 25k. It's like if you don't take Explosives you hit like a potato and if you do take it you're building around a trait that is fundamentally broken.

ANet needs to give some damage back to Rifle and/or revert the cooldown changes, nerf the heck out of Explosive Entrance, make at least a few other changes to the Explosives line, and buff some other things to make Explosives less appealing. Ideally without buffing Scrapper and Holosmith, though of course any buffs to Rifle will also effect the elites.

I've been ignoring my Engi for a few weeks now because I'm burnt out. I've tried so many different builds looking for things that work and I just can't find something. The only two things I have that are usable (and that hardly even means viable) is the build I spoke of in the OP, a Pistol/Shield power build that's similar in concept to pre-nerf Prot Holo (and big surprise, it uses Explosives), and a P/P condi Holo. Every other thing I've tried is kitten and all I see all over the place are Engi's memeing with Grenade Barrage.

Grenade barrage in PvP is nerfed from 0,5 power coefficient per grenade to 0,3 power coefficient.That is a huge nerf of 40% of it's damage, people should now finally stop complaining about it.

Core engineer won't see any play in any of the modes, as long as it only has two worthy traitlines, and the rest is "meh", at best. A-net has to buff and/or rework multiple lines, while nerfing the elites, so they doesn't feel like a band-aid anymore. "Oh, core engineer was hard to use, and it is weak? Lets slap overperforming elites on it."

Every other viable core spec has at least three good core lines, so you actually miss out on important things, when you slot in an elite line. That is how engineer should be. Multiple good lines, with cross trait-line synergies. Like we currently have damage on toolbelt skill (SD), heal on toolbelt, in a different line (Soothing Detonation), if we got one more, in a different traitline, we could have a core SD build, that has crucial elements distributed among three lines, so elites can't use it.An another one could be (shouldn't be, tho') dodge synergy. We have EE in Explosive, we have vigor, and Adrenal Impact in Tools. Add one more synergy in a different line, and we can get an another build, that dips into three different lines.

Also @Kodama.6453 , Lesser Grenade Barrage, not the actual toolbelt Grenade Barrage got nerfed. Damage on heal and damage on dodge is stupid to begin with, in my oppinion.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Bumping this just so I don't have to make another thread about my current gripe.

I'm seeing Grenade Scrappers everywhere lately and I hate it, Grenade Barrage with Explosive Entrance is broken as frig hitting for like 15 - 25k. It's like if you don't take Explosives you hit like a potato and if you do take it you're building around a trait that is fundamentally broken.

ANet needs to give some damage back to Rifle and/or revert the cooldown changes, nerf the heck out of Explosive Entrance, make at least a few other changes to the Explosives line, and buff some other things to make Explosives less appealing. Ideally without buffing Scrapper and Holosmith, though of course any buffs to Rifle will also effect the elites.

I've been ignoring my Engi for a few weeks now because I'm burnt out. I've tried so many different builds looking for things that work and I just can't find something. The only two things I have that are usable

(and that hardly even means viable)

is the build I spoke of in the OP, a Pistol/Shield power build that's similar in concept to pre-nerf Prot Holo

(and big surprise, it uses Explosives)

, and a P/P condi Holo. Every other thing I've tried is kitten and all I see all over the place are Engi's memeing with Grenade Barrage.

This is the problem I have with it though. It's one of those things where it's over performing but it's also one of the only options available to keep the class viable. So it gets nerfed and then the class is left in a crappy state all around.

Grenade Barrage also was not nerfed, it was the lesser on heal version. I'm hoping they buff Engi somewhere to compensate if they nerf Grenade Barrage (and they very likely will) in the near future.

@wasss.1208 said:Every other viable core spec has at least three good core lines, so you actually miss out on important things, when you slot in an elite line. That is how engineer should be.

Agreed, and my main gripe with the class as a whole. I don't feel like I'm gaining anything by going core, I just feel like I'm willfully disadvantaging myself.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Bumping this just so I don't have to make another thread about my current gripe.

I'm seeing Grenade Scrappers everywhere lately and I hate it, Grenade Barrage with Explosive Entrance is broken as frig hitting for like 15 - 25k. It's like if you don't take Explosives you hit like a potato and if you do take it you're building around a trait that is fundamentally broken.

ANet needs to give some damage back to Rifle and/or revert the cooldown changes, nerf the heck out of Explosive Entrance, make at least a few other changes to the Explosives line, and buff some other things to make Explosives less appealing. Ideally without buffing Scrapper and Holosmith, though of course any buffs to Rifle will also effect the elites.

I've been ignoring my Engi for a few weeks now because I'm burnt out. I've tried so many different builds looking for things that work and I just can't find something. The only two things I have that are usable

(and that hardly even means viable)

is the build I spoke of in the OP, a Pistol/Shield power build that's similar in concept to pre-nerf Prot Holo

(and big surprise, it uses Explosives)

, and a P/P condi Holo. Every other thing I've tried is kitten and all I see all over the place are Engi's memeing with Grenade Barrage.

It's the Lesser Grenade Barrage, the one triggered from the healing skill. There will still be room to complain.

If we are talking structured PvP then this build I have been using for nearly a decade now helps me win some 1v1s and some 2v1s. It’s just one of those builds that uses things that most players who play the meta Engie (or fight against them) are not used to. The build is mainly good for fighting melee professions so in WvW it may not be the best but in PvP where you have to fight on point, it can rock.

How to play the build is described here: https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Comeback_King_Engie_Core_SpecThere’s also clips of me playing the build against different classes near the bottom of the page.You can replace alchemy with explosives in that build because explosive entrance with the daze and the blind can be quite useful. That said, alchemy has its benefits with increased duration on the stab from toss elixir b. I change things depending on what I think will be most effective against the enemy team.

EDIT: You can also take inventions instead of Alchemy to add another smokefield in order to counter backstab thieves and one-shot Rangers and also more condi cleanse.

You can also go P/P with the build but I advice using toolkit if you do that. Having a block ability is really good for the Engie in a pressure heavy meta.

Their role is to pass butter.

@Yasai.3549 said:Their role is to pass butter.

Oh my god....

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Their role is to pass butter.

Welcome to the club pal.

@Lynx.9058 said:If turrets scaled with stats and worked better they could be cores focus.

What would stop especs from using them better than core?

@Sobx.1758 said:

What would stop especs from using them better than core?

They need to make it so that yu are spoiled for traitline choice if yu wanna pick Turrets as an afterthought or as a main gameplay focus.So if Especs wanna pick Turrets and better Turrets, they need to sacrifice a traitline they would normally run for it.

If Anet is able to rework Inventions to focus on Turrets, Scrappers and Holos may have to consider dropping either Alchemy or Explosions if they wanna pick up Invention instead.(I guess only exception is Prot Holo, but if yu are playing Prot Holo yu aren't playing Explo Holo anyway)