Really hoping to see the next elite spec for engie be a condi focused spec.

I love condi engie. Recently, I made viper's ascended gear just so I can optimally use condi since it isn't as good as power engie right now. A small accomplishment to most of you I'm sure, but a huge one for me considering I played through 5 years of this game with just exotic gear. Condi engineer (or piano engineer) is one of the first rotations I really learned and certainly my favourite dps build for Engineer. I just want to point out how there really is not much versatility for condi on the engie.

Condi engie has always been the same. The addition of holosmith just added the rotation of holo-mode + corona burst, then swapping back to what basically feels like core engineer for your kit rotations. There is no build diversity for condition damage on the engineer, it is always the same.

Compared to power, condi is lackluster. Power is currently meta but also has the most meta (and non meta!) build diversity. Power holo for fractals and raids, with sword and rifle variations. Power scrapper for when you need to carry some players with some tanking. MANY variations of power scrapper for open world (hammer, flamethrower, and grenades are all amazing open world power builds.)

Condi engie has.... one weapon to use. P/P. You really can't even mix a shield in there since you lose Pistol 4. You need to always play piano style or you're missing out on powerful conditions. There is no "lazy" condi build like power flamethrower. Your specs always stay the same unless you count going from alchemy/explosions to holosmith for pretty much the same dps. Just a slightly different aesthetic once every 8 or so seconds.

Anybody agree/disagree?

I won't agree or disagree, but i don't expect to see another build without at least 2 kits, so basically a new condi specs will be exactly the same than condi holo with 3 new mainhand spell.

Hey, maybe we get some Condi / Support elite spec like Guardian and Necromancer got?

@haattila.5974 said:I won't agree or disagree, but i don't expect to see another build without at least 2 kits, so basically a new condi specs will be exactly the same than condi holo with 3 new mainhand spell.

I feel like if the spec has rewarding enough utilities and specializes in a particular condition, like poison or bleed, it could be good. Currently you take kits mostly for its fire conditions.

@Shaogin.2679 said:Hey, maybe we get some Condi / Support elite spec like Guardian and Necromancer got?

Agreed, this would be the best outcome for me.Plaguedoctor elite spec with alot of boon support for allies (healing we can already do pretty well) + conditions.

It's pretty much the consensus. We've had two power-focused engineer specs - sure, each throws the odd bone to conditions, but we know what they are. It's somewhat ironic that flamethrower is now pretty much being regarded as power after being "purity of purposed" to be a more condi-oriented kit - but if you run juggernaut than the synergies with scrapper are too strong to ignore, and if you're running scrapper in its current form, you want to be running power.

I certainly hope we dont get a condi spec until theres a core trait line that propley supports condi, arms just doesnt do it.

@Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:I certainly hope we dont get a condi spec until theres a core trait line that propley supports condi, arms just doesnt do it.

I would really like to see some of the less useful alchemy traits reworked into condi for poison or something.

@"draxynnic.3719" said:It's pretty much the consensus. We've had two power-focused engineer specs - sure, each throws the odd bone to conditions, but we know what they are. It's somewhat ironic that flamethrower is now pretty much being regarded as power after being "purity of purposed" to be a more condi-oriented kit - but if you run juggernaut than the synergies with scrapper are too strong to ignore, and if you're running scrapper in its current form, you want to be running power.

Being able to selfbuff 15-20 might with 2 traits is not great synergy. Bomb kit, hammer etc do more damage with way fewer might. In fact you are doing way less damage with sticking to flamethrower.Its one of the reasons why so many players think story bosses have inflated health when they could die withing 2sec.Next elite will hopefully be a support with some condi traits and utilities. Condi is already quite powerful but it is just very hard to play. Just needs to have 1 or 2 kits replaced with a utility and it would be great. Havent seen a condi engi in ages. Why play that when fb exists? Condi engi also lacks a theme. Its just cycling between 3-4kits constantly and just using 1-2 skills per kit each swap without any neat animations or impactful skills besides pistol 4 and even that isnt even that strong compared to recent stuff.

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@"draxynnic.3719" said:It's pretty much the consensus. We've had two power-focused engineer specs - sure, each throws the odd bone to conditions, but we know what they are. It's somewhat ironic that flamethrower is now pretty much being regarded as power after being "purity of purposed" to be a more condi-oriented kit - but if you run juggernaut than the synergies with scrapper are too strong to ignore, and if you're running scrapper in its current form, you want to be running power.

I think that depends on just what you're fighting and under what circumstances, but yeah, if you're fighting a single enemy, flamethrower is a poor choice even WITH all the synergies if it's DPS you're looking for. But if it's still fairly mediocre even after you've leveraged all those synergies, we're not exactly looking at something that's going to work well as a condi weapon without those synergies, now would we? That said, it IS used in condi DPS builds, but usually in a context of using one or two skills and then immediately flipping back out.

Like I said, it's pretty much the consensus that we've had two power-focused elite specs and that it's time for something more condition-oriented. The flamethrower example was simply to illustrate that a weapon that ArenaNet views as condition-oriented (and it really SHOULD be viewed that way, IMO, since the autoattack is going to proc a lot of Bleeding through firearms minor traits) ends up being used with power because the elite spec that synergises with it is power-oriented. (Which is probably a large part of why flamethrower ends up being mediocre: because it's a weapon designed for spreading conditions around being pushed into being used with a power-based elite spec.)

Copying my response from another thread here:

"Tbh, what I'd actually do if changing the kits were up to me is get rid of bomb kit entirely (it makes no sense dropping high explosives at your own feet in melee range, how are we even still alive?) And merge some of its abilities into mortar kit, and make mortar 1 a targeted (non-ground) ability so it can function as a proper ranged power weapon with an autoattack.Then make flamethrower the condition damage weapon, dropping the burst and raising the burning effect.Then replace bomb kit with a blunderbuss/shotgun/scrap cannon kit that replaces flamethrower as a short range power damage weapon, and make things like juggernaut work for both the flamethrower and shotgun.Then turn elixir gun into a ranged condition weapon kit.

That gives condition and power engineers both a short range and long range kit option meant for that playstyle that make sense. The new elite spec in the upcoming expansion should then be a condition damage spec since both holosmith and scrapper are power oriented."

Is really flamethrower a Pure Pdps kit tho ?In PVE it's only used in condi build.

About kits i find them mostly, badly design, let's take Scrapper heal, you'll take mortar only for his 5 skill, same for elixir gun.

@haattila.5974 said:Is really flamethrower a Pure Pdps kit tho ?In PVE it's only used in condi build.

About kits i find them mostly, badly design, let's take Scrapper heal, you'll take mortar only for his 5 skill, same for elixir gun.

It's used in both, but in different environments. In instanced team play, it's used with condi builds, but it's generally a matter of using it for the toolbelt skill, skill 2, and skill 4 and then swapping back out again. Maybe you'd use skill 3 and 5 if you need breakbar, but condi builds basically never stay in flamethrower.

There's also a power scrapper juggernaut build that's used for open world (particularly farming, since it's good for tagging). The principle is by self-sustaining several boons building up synergies between Firearms, Scrapper, and Alchemy, you can get something that deals... acceptable damage while being fairly tough for a build in glass cannon gear. Of course, since it only reaches acceptable DPS while self-sustaining 10+ might stacks, Fury, and 30% or higher uptime of Quickness, it doesn't have much extra it can go to in team environments where boons are supplied.

Here is what I anticipate:

1. Seems to me lots of what Engi offers has straddled condi and Direct Damage. Maybe that's intended, since that isn't subtle, Anet has made condi-focused builds for other classes and actually changed things to enforce that straddling (FT for example)
2. I don't think a condi-focused espec will outperform current specs anyways because of the structure of the Firearms traitline. Holo corners the market on burning and the bleed traits are directly tied to crit.

Assuming Anet wouldn't create a new damaging condition (hey, maybe ... that would be cool) ... I think a condi-focused spec would be a wasted opportunity.

@Obtena.7952 said:Here is what I anticipate:

1. Seems to me lots of what Engi offers has straddled condi and Direct Damage. Maybe that's intended, since that isn't subtle, Anet has made condi-focused builds for other classes and actually changed things to enforce that straddling (FT for example)
2. I don't think a condi-focused espec will outperform current specs anyways because of the structure of the Firearms traitline. Holo corners the market on burning and the bleed traits are directly tied to crit.

Assuming Anet wouldn't create a new damaging condition (hey, maybe ... that would be cool) ... I think a condi-focused spec would be a wasted opportunity.

Not entirely condition focused.We should get a boonshare support next that utilises some condition damage.

Basically how scourge also added condition damage to necromancer, while primarily being a healing support (replacing actual healing with barrier application).Important boons are missing for engineer to become a viable healer in high end PvE content, our healing is enough for that role already.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Here is what I anticipate:

1. Seems to me lots of what Engi offers has straddled condi and Direct Damage. Maybe that's intended, since that isn't subtle, Anet has made condi-focused builds for other classes and actually changed things to enforce that straddling (FT for example)
2. I don't think a condi-focused espec will outperform current specs anyways because of the structure of the Firearms traitline. Holo corners the market on burning and the bleed traits are directly tied to crit.

Assuming Anet wouldn't create a new damaging condition (hey, maybe ... that would be cool) ... I think a condi-focused spec would be a wasted opportunity.

Firebrand is another good example for giving both support options and expanded condition options.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Here is what I anticipate:

1. Seems to me lots of what Engi offers has straddled condi and Direct Damage. Maybe that's intended, since that isn't subtle, Anet has made condi-focused builds for other classes and actually changed things to enforce that straddling (FT for example)
2. I don't think a condi-focused espec will outperform current specs anyways because of the structure of the Firearms traitline. Holo corners the market on burning and the bleed traits are directly tied to crit.

Assuming Anet wouldn't create a new damaging condition (hey, maybe ... that would be cool) ... I think a condi-focused spec would be a wasted opportunity.

So your suggesting the next espec contain boonsharing just allow Engi to fill healer role in teamed PVE? We already have the condi damage part of that. I could see boonsharing ... though if engi generates too many boons, I doubt it would happen ... Anet hasn't exactly succumbed to the idea that every class/espec fills some significant role for endgame PVE and slapping a boonshare on a strongly boongenerating class would be a disaster for it.

Honestly, I just hope whatever they do, it's as clever as the last two especs.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Here is what I anticipate:

1. Seems to me lots of what Engi offers has straddled condi and Direct Damage. Maybe that's intended, since that isn't subtle, Anet has made condi-focused builds for other classes and actually changed things to enforce that straddling (FT for example)
2. I don't think a condi-focused espec will outperform current specs anyways because of the structure of the Firearms traitline. Holo corners the market on burning and the bleed traits are directly tied to crit.

Assuming Anet wouldn't create a new damaging condition (hey, maybe ... that would be cool) ... I think a condi-focused spec would be a wasted opportunity.

I think ArenaNet has looked towards breaking monopolies and making professions more versatile, though. Prior to PoF, for instance, guardian in endgame PvE was pretty much just power damage - now it's one of the most versatile professions in high-end PvE, and the firebrigade team broke the chronomancer monopoly on quickness and alacrity. I could see an objective of a new wave of elite specialisations being to spread those boons around to more generators and to bring new roles to professions that are currently fairly limited in options.

How well they'll succeed, mind you, is another question.

Honestly I'd like them to also pursue this whole "Purity of Purpose" thing with Engineer kits as well. Part of the reason kits take up so much utility space on the Engineer's tool bar is because they focus on both direct damage and condi damage at the same time. It's because of this that to achieve max damage, we have to cycle through so many kits just to use a couple of skills from each kit. While this complexity isn't necessarily such a bad thing, it does hurt build diversity since it is always mandatory to bring these kits, though Holosmith did help alleviate this slightly with power builds. What I would like to see happen is for the kits to become more focused on a single role, such as power damage, condi damage, or support or whatever.

I am having good luck (in pvp and pve) with condition scrapper.. Works really well. good defense also.

@"Shaogin.2679" said:Honestly I'd like them to also pursue this whole "Purity of Purpose" thing with Engineer kits as well. Part of the reason kits take up so much utility space on the Engineer's tool bar is because they focus on both direct damage and condi damage at the same time. It's because of this that to achieve max damage, we have to cycle through so many kits just to use a couple of skills from each kit. While this complexity isn't necessarily such a bad thing, it does hurt build diversity since it is always mandatory to bring these kits, though Holosmith did help alleviate this slightly with power builds. What I would like to see happen is for the kits to become more focused on a single role, such as power damage, condi damage, or support or whatever.

So true, discussed this in another thread already.

It's weird that every single kit we have is mixed damage. They should have designed kits like they are designing weapons: some pure power, some pure condi, some a mix between both. Not making everything a mix.

@lysico.1297 said:I am having good luck (in pvp and pve) with condition scrapper.. Works really well. good defense also.

What condi build are you running in PvP? I really love condi pvp builds but I can't seem to make one for engineer that actually deals any reasonable damage.