Am I the only one here who sees the title "End of Dragons" as critical? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Am I the only one here who sees the title "End of Dragons" as critical?

Cynder.2509Cynder.2509 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited August 28, 2020 in Lore

Not only because I love dragons.
I've always seen the dragons in the Guild Wars universe as some sort of balance to the magic overflow as they only consume as much as they need and then return to sleep once in a cycle. I'm probably the only one who feels bad for killing all these dragons.
I know it's just my headcannon but I've always envisioned the Elder Dragons as something good who kept the magic (the lifeblood of this world) of Thyria in balance. I always thought they might have been corrupted by something else and turned evil even though they were meant to be guardians/keepers after all.
Weren't it the Gods who granted humanity (a race we still don't know of their origin yet) magic and with that to every other race on Thyria (the planet, not the continent Tyria)?
Humans only used it for evil as far as I know and I also know about the story of Abaddon (as I played a good bit of gw1 even though I'm still stuck at Factions atm and I'd like to continue it just for the lore before EoD drops. So anyone who wants to help is welcome because I really love the lore.) and I think he was misunderstood. Also if you can kill a God are they Gods after all? We know that Kormir ascended into Godhood as well as Grenth who defeated Dhuum so maybe these Gods we know of are all ascended humans and the true Gods might be unkown. What if the Elder Dragons were the true Gods as they were always not aligned to a certain race, they all had their own domain, they are similar to some of the six Gods and they are/were six? There's even a book about that in the Durmand Priory in one of the story steps of Living Story Season 2. I mean it's just a theory but still.
Anyways if magic was granted to humans and one of the Gods wanted to take it back as they saw what humans did with such power wouldn't you think there was some way of balance in the system?
I'm currently writing on a novel project about all of this since 8 years although it's on pause since 2016 now because of different real life stuff.
Also what would happen to Aurene since she's an Elder Dragon herself now? I know about the Glint prophecy stuff but what if she cannot contain all this power anymore?
Aurene, Glint, Kuunuvang and a lot of other dragons are the evidence that not all dragons are bad.
You know what? I even trust Jormag at this point as they only want to put a stop to the missuse of such power like magic.
However there's so much we don't know yet and I hope we get everything uncovered of this series' lore.
Forgot to add this: The lore of this series is one of my all time favorites alongside with the Elder Scrolls series. Both hold an important place in my heart.

I'm Hunter, he/him
Character infos: https://is-it-because-im-charr.tumblr.com/charactersgw2

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Comments

  • Cynder.2509Cynder.2509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As a wise old dragon once said: "What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"

    I'm Hunter, he/him
    Character infos: https://is-it-because-im-charr.tumblr.com/charactersgw2

    canthaconfirmed

  • JekthAvid.1408JekthAvid.1408 Member ✭✭✭

    Mostly I'm worried about aurene if it's really the "End Of Dragons." Either dragons will be ded, or metaphorically dead. Maybe THIS age of dragons will be over and they'll all return to sleep. Maybe some whack magics will happen and they'll all turn to floating consciousness or humanoids or something. Maybe someone will kill Jormag and that will be the final straw for magic. Chaos ensues with your abilities not working as they should. (During story events only, obvi) A necromancer trying to summon a flesh golem will call down a burst of flame. A revenant calling upon the echoes of Mallyx will create a clone of himself. A warrior.... umm... I think you get it. There are a lot of ways this could go, and I'm curious to see exactly where. =D

  • Tom Abernathy went on record to say that dragon fans should have nothing to be worried about. Also, the titles of expansion packs and arcs tend to be what we prevent, rather than what's expected to happen. So we should be okay.

    Also, yes, it's definitely looking like the Elder Dragons were indeed as you saw them. What turned them was the torment.

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    Aurene is proof that elder dragons aren't inherently evil. Either the other elder dragons simply were evil from the get-go (as it's clear dragons have their own, unique and complex personalities) or something drove them toward evil (corrupting magic, immortality, lack of empathy). Or they just operate on morality we can't understand.

    End of Dragons is only 'concerning' if it's taken literally. Many speculate it is metaphor for some broader concept. It could simply mark the "end of dragons" as the ruling power in tyria. "The cycle is reborn" seems to allude that something will happen to reset the elder dragon cycle, either by replacing them with benevolent dragons or finding a way to continue the cycle of magic without relying on dragons. Doesn't mean that dragons are dead, but it will likely end elder dragons as the focus of GW2's story. Trust me, they're not killing off Aurene after all this lol.

  • Stephen.6312Stephen.6312 Member ✭✭✭

    @Svennis.3852 said:
    Trust me, they're not killing off Aurene after all this lol.

    Well, I wouldn't be so sure about that.

    Want to delve into some theories about the lore and story of GW2? Check these posts out: The Search For Answers P1.

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    I would. They already did that and it didn't stick lol.

  • Bast.7253Bast.7253 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JekthAvid.1408 said:
    Mostly I'm worried about aurene if it's really the "End Of Dragons." Either dragons will be ded, or metaphorically dead. Maybe THIS age of dragons will be over and they'll all return to sleep. Maybe some whack magics will happen and they'll all turn to floating consciousness or humanoids or something. Maybe someone will kill Jormag and that will be the final straw for magic. Chaos ensues with your abilities not working as they should. (During story events only, obvi) A necromancer trying to summon a flesh golem will call down a burst of flame. A revenant calling upon the echoes of Mallyx will create a clone of himself. A warrior.... umm... I think you get it. There are a lot of ways this could go, and I'm curious to see exactly where. =D

    I'm also worried in relation to this current season.

    For some reason I thought about glass and the effects of extreme heat and extreme gold have on it. With her getting involved with Primordus and Jormag, who happen to be each others weaknesses and seemingly conflicting natural forces, I wondered what that could mean if Aurene attempted to either get in between the both of them in a fight, or potentially absorb their domains.

    Though, I suppose if she absorbed Mordremoth and Zhaitan, (though they were never specifically stated to be each others weaknesses and aren't strictly domains of life and death), this may be less of an issue.

    Perhaps "End of Dragons" is just referring to the end of the way the elder dragon cycle currently acts. Periods of destruction of civilizations. Or perhaps it's referring to the end of dragons being the only vessels for the all and their domains. Perhaps we start diving into lore that allows other entities to take their place, i.e. The Pale Mother, norn spirits, etc and Aurene is just a temporary vessel to hold all of this and will be the one that decides who gets what.
    The only odd thing about this theory is, we have a potential replacement for Mordremoth, she could still wind up being the replacement for Kralk, the spirits could be the placement for Jormag, we still have DSD - which could be the celestials or one of the Saltspreys, but we still have Zhaitan and Primordus.

    I feel like it's implying something more substantial than them just going to sleep though.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Or.... as what is said above, the expension name is what we prevent. Since start I speculated that deep sea dragon ability is to brain wash peoples to not know about it: Not a single person is capable of saying its name.

    What if, the deep sea dragon is making its followers/ peeps under its influence believe that dragons don't exist and never existed? If every tyrian was corrupted, wouldn't it be the end of dragons, because nobody remember them? (Including forgetting aurene?) Is it to protect primordius? Afraid we will turn against aurene?

    Pay attention to the logo, above, the dragon can be clearly seen, under, discreet, hiding in waters.

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  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    Aurene, Glint, Kuunuvang and a lot of other dragons are the evidence that not all dragons are bad.
    You know what? I even trust Jormag at this point as they only want to put a stop to the missuse of such power like magic.
    However there's so much we don't know yet and I hope we get everything uncovered of this series' lore.
    Forgot to add this: The lore of this series is one of my all time favorites alongside with the Elder Scrolls series. Both hold an important place in my heart.

    Besides my thoughts that it refers to a two headed underwater dragon being replaced, ie the end of dragonS, it could also refer to the end of the original dragon cycle.

    If Jormag turns out to be good. She can most likely keep Primordius in check since they have the whole cancellation thing going on.
    And then Kuunavang replaces Bubbles or Zhaitan. The Pale Tree assumes the role of Mordremoth. Aurene continues to serve as Kralkatorrik stand-in. And the remaining spheres are spread amongst the group. The world makes do with 5 until a 6th can be found.

  • Stephen.6312Stephen.6312 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 29, 2020

    @hugo.4705 said:
    Or.... as what is said above, the expension name is what we prevent. Since start I speculated that deep sea dragon ability is to brain wash peoples to not know about it: Not a single person is capable of saying its name.

    What if, the deep sea dragon is making its followers/ peeps under its influence believe that dragons don't exist and never existed? If every tyrian was corrupted, wouldn't it be the end of dragons, because nobody remember them? (Including forgetting aurene?) Is it to protect primordius? Afraid we will turn against aurene?

    Pay attention to the logo, above, the dragon can be clearly seen, under, discreet, hiding in waters.

    I think that you're right, Hugo. The DSD has an ability to interfere with most terrestrial spell-casters' ability to recall it's name. The norn scholar in the Priory, who thinks that the Priory got the first letter of the DSD's name wrong, is probably correct, as Taimi is unable to recall even that detail (the first letter) when she tries to remember the DSD's name.

    Want to delve into some theories about the lore and story of GW2? Check these posts out: The Search For Answers P1.

  • Stephen.6312Stephen.6312 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 29, 2020

    @Bast.7253 said:

    I feel like it's implying something more substantial than them just going to sleep though.

    I get the same feeling, mate. Maybe the title refers to the idea that dragons, as a species, were not, or are no longer, required to maintain the cycle. Or maybe it refers to the ultimate purpose of dragons and how no dragon, including Aurene, can deny it's nature or the intricacies of it's relationship with tormented magic.

    Want to delve into some theories about the lore and story of GW2? Check these posts out: The Search For Answers P1.

  • Kossage.9072Kossage.9072 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2020

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    Not only because I love dragons.
    I've always seen the dragons in the Guild Wars universe as some sort of balance to the magic overflow as they only consume as much as they need and then return to sleep once in a cycle. I'm probably the only one who feels bad for killing all these dragons.
    I know it's just my headcannon but I've always envisioned the Elder Dragons as something good who kept the magic (the lifeblood of this world) of Thyria in balance. I always thought they might have been corrupted by something else and turned evil even though they were meant to be guardians/keepers after all.

    That may have been the Elder Dragons' (or if they had any predecessors in the mythic past, the original balancers') purpose to keep the Antikytheria mechanism stable for the All, but they've become too greedy, selfish and destructive since then as they crave for more and more magic.

    We already have proof that the dragons weren't just content with their own domains as Jormag and Primordus are confirmed, via the Shards of Jormag achievement text, to have clashed at some point in the past which led to at least Jormag being injured (hence the shards found in Drizzlewood Coast).

    The problem with the dragons' corruption is that in their desire for magic they sense magic inherent within all Tyrian creatures (as souls seem to be created from magic), so they naturally collect this magic via killing and/or converting other Tyrian beings. The corruption transforms the unfortunate victims into elemental minions of the dragon, and any converted being becomes a fanatic zealot praising their dragon master's name. The corruption overcomes the mind so that your former loved one or family member will instantly turn on you and regard the dragon as the superior force, and these minions go so far as to use propaganda to demoralize the opposition (like the Risen High Priest of Lyssa claiming that Zhaitan had devoured the gods and that the afterlife was a lie, and how only Zhaitan's undeath can save Tyrians from eternal oblivion).

    Ultimately we've seen that magic messes up anyone toying with it if enough time has passed. The ley bounties and Bloodstone abominations show that excess magic warps beings and seems to turn the beings into "vessels" for the magic that they can no longer fully control. While Elder Dragons, do to their nature, seem to be able to handle excess magic better for a time, even they ultimately seem to succumb to Torment and Temptation and can be reduced to destructive monstrosities like Kralkatorrik...although curiously Torment manifests in different ways for each dragon as per Tom Abernathy's suggestion, so Jormag's Torment would differ from Kralkatorrik's Torment.

    Even Aurene, despite being more resistant to Torment, may ultimately succumb to Temptation if she keeps using more and more magic, because magic is inherently addictive the more you consume it. There's even a potential hint in Linsey Murdock and Scott McGough's comments about there being more to Balthazar's fall than we've seen that suggests that perhaps gods themselves also end up suffering from Torment or Temptation as the magic domains they wield end up dominating their thoughts as centuries or millennia pass (such as Balthazar being "forced" to crave for more War regardless of the cost because that was one of his primary domains).

    Ultimately magic may be the overarching antagonistic force that caused all the destruction in Guild Wars verse from the mythic past to the currently shrouded present. But magic may not be actively malicious as life is also created from it; magic simply is, and the only danger with it is using/abusing too much of it due to the addictive qualities of the many magical domains.

    Once the Elder Dragons have been replaced as per the Legacy plan, some kind of gates need to be built to make sure that the balancers don't repeat their predecessors' mistakes. Glint suggested that one way of combating Torment and Temptation is for the dragon replacement to have at least one champion to share the burden with while empathizing with the champion and thus with the rest of mortals, as well as learning not to hoard magic but keep it in balance so neither the greedy mortals or tempted balancers end up taking too much of it into themselves.

    Weren't it the Gods who granted humanity (a race we still don't know of their origin yet) magic and with that to every other race on Thyria (the planet, not the continent Tyria)?

    This was what humanity believed in GW1, but GW2 proved this to be a biased claim. What actually happened was that during the previous dragonrise (somewhere circa 10,000 BE to circa 3,000 BE) the Seers decided to seal all the world's remaining magic into the original Bloodstone to hide the magic from dragons and force them back into slumber. The plan worked, but the elder races' power also diminished as a result as they had relied on the magic so much. This partly contributed to the jotun's eventual regression into savage brutes. The Forgotten, stewards of the gods, had been assisting the other elder races at this time and likely acted as forward scouts for the Six Gods.

    After some time had passed, the gods brought humanity with them to Tyria in Orr before transporting them elsewhere. By 786 BE, humanity appeared in Cantha, although Luxon and Kurzick stories and origin suggests that the human tribes had lived elsewhere (possibly Sunrise Crest?) before some ethnicities traveled to Cantha and some would eventually settle Elona, Orr etc.

    The gods wandered around the world and discovered artifacts of the elder races, including the jotun's Mystic Telescope and the Seer Bloodstone, and brought them to what would be known as Arah for safekeeping and study. Abaddon and the gods likely had discussions about these artifacts' purpose, and Abaddon discovered (possibly via the Forgotten) what the Bloodstone was for. Wanting to spread knowledge and magic to the races to help them survive in the world, he gifted various mortal tribes with magic, which unfortunately led to devastating wars and forced King Doric to travel to Arah to ask the gods to end the bloodshed.

    Most of the gods agreed and seemingly used Doric's blood to seal magic back into the Bloodstone, which angered Abaddon and would, in part, eventually lead to his doomed war against the other gods and his sealing. The gods sundered the original Bloodstone into five lesser Bloodstones (and some notable shards like the final boss found in Arah's Seer path) to divide the magic within, and tossed all of the stones into the volcano of Abaddon's Mouth in Ring of Fire to keep them from falling into the wrong hands, before the gods departed from the world to prevent any more calamities like the war against Abaddon. They entrusted Doric's bloodline to watch over the Bloodstones. Curiously the gods did seem to create the fifth Bloodstone, also known as the Keystone, which would allow the stones to be united as one again, but why they decided to create such a stone if they intended magic to be separated remains unknown.

    The volcano would eventually erupt and scatter the five Bloodstones around the world, however, and lead to humans discovering some of these Bloodstones. Because the four schools of magic were separated into the stones, no individual was capable of fully utilizing all forms of magic, and humanity came to believe that magic had been created by the gods just like Tyria was although they would learn the truth later.

    So in short: magic has always existed in Thyria as the dragonrises have occurred "countless" times. Magic has apparently always been balanced by the All which requires at least four balancers to exist in an eternal push/pull motion within the cosmic Antikytheria system (we could kill Zhaitan and Mordremoth while leading to some magical catastrophes but nothing world-ending, whereas killing one more dragon without a replacement would've doomed us all and thus we needed to stop Balthazar), or else all of Thyria will fall into oblivion.

    Humans only used it for evil as far as I know and I also know about the story of Abaddon (as I played a good bit of gw1 even though I'm still stuck at Factions atm and I'd like to continue it just for the lore before EoD drops. So anyone who wants to help is welcome because I really love the lore.) and I think he was misunderstood.

    Like all races, humanity has used magic for both good and evil as there will always be heroes and villains in every generation. So while humanity was driven by Balthazar to subjugate the other races and conquer Tyria, there were also peaceful relations with other races like how Luxon stories claim that a Luxon captain made a pact with a Dragon King in Cantha: in exchange for wind and guidance while the crew was lost at sea, the Luxons promised to never hurt any saltspray dragon. Likewise, there were some peaceful relations with tengu, naga and dwarves among others although humanity's drive for conquest did sour some relationships like causing the Tengu Wars until diplomats from both human and tengu sides tried to reach peace.

    Abaddon may have had good intentions in promoting enlightenment and wanting at least some races to wield magic for the betterment of their societies, but we also knew that Abaddon had become corrupt over time and may have already been plotting to overthrow the gods even before the wars for magic began. It was just that the second sealing of magic into the Bloodstone, as well as the Forgotten massacring Abaddon's zealous Margonite followers in revenge for defamed the statues of the gods and killing the priests of other gods at the Temple of the Six, eventually prompted Abaddon to make his move then rather than biding his time longer. Sadly we don't know when Abaddon's "descent" happened, but he was said to have been princely among the gods and someone whose wisdom the other gods sought, so he must not have always been evil and scheming.

    Interestingly the Mad Souls in the Realm of Torment claim the following after Kormir had succeeded Abaddon as a god:

    "A new god is born! A god that will destroy the others and bring about the end of the world! The cycle begins again!"
    "Kormir. How brave you were to join us in the Realm of Torment. How mad you were to choose to never leave."
    "When you walk dark paths, you open your mind to nightmare. Poor Kormir, poor sad goddess raised up to the stars, cursed to see only infinite blackness between them...."

    If there's even a shred of truth to these mad ramblings, it suggests that Abaddon may have inherited his madness from the god he had overthrown in the past, and Kormir will in turn inherit that same madness from replacing Abaddon. If true, the cycle of destruction will continue, and Kormir may become the downfall of the gods.

    If magic truly is both a benevolent and malignant force as it corrupts over time, it might explain why Balthazar descended from an honorable if quick tempered god into a murderous villain. Balthazar carried the severed head of his father when he emerged on Tyria (we don't know if he did this to present the head as a trophy, or if he carried it in lament for having lost his father) and had an intense rivalry with his mad half-brother Menzies, so this suggests that either one of Balthazar's parents was a god or he was born fully mortal before taking over the previous war deity's place). If Abaddon (and maybe Kormir in the future) would fall from grace, the same could happen with Balthazar as well if whatever tormented his predecessor passed on to him and would infect him over time.

    Perhaps the souls' ramblings suggest that all gods are destined to fall and be replaced once their magic domain starts controlling their actions than vice versa. We might see Lyssa become more chaotic and murderous, Kormir might become more secretive with an "ends justify the means" mentality (she never bothered to alert humanity to the Elder Dragons' threat for some reason, she never revealed Balthazar's imprisonment, and didn't even outright reveal to our heroes that Sohothin was key to defeating Balthazar while she instead led us on a wild chase through the desert in hopes that we'd figure things out ourselves), Dwayna's mercy might end up having darker shades (she did have her avatar kidnap a dwarf devoted to her during GW1 much to the confusion of the dwarf's lamenting brother), Melandru might take the hardcore stance of her druidic followers and promote Nature's growth at the expense of Tyrian races, and Grenth might just descend to become almost as bad as Dhuum over time as he inflicts punishment on those he deems unworthy while, unlike Dhuum, he might have the undead take over the world for all we know.

    It would be a tragic fate and somewhat "justify" Abaddon and Balthazar's fall from grace from the once virtuous beings they had been while painting magic as inherently dangerous even though it can be wielded for good or evil purposes due to its corrupting nature. :(

    Also if you can kill a God are they Gods after all? We know that Kormir ascended into Godhood as well as Grenth who defeated Dhuum so maybe these Gods we know of are all ascended humans and the true Gods might be unkown. What if the Elder Dragons were the true Gods as they were always not aligned to a certain race, they all had their own domain, they are similar to some of the six Gods and they are/were six? There's even a book about that in the Durmand Priory in one of the story steps of Living Story Season 2. I mean it's just a theory but still.

    The Six Gods are gods. Some of them are ascended humans or demigods (Kormir and Grenth, possibly Balthazar too), but they all wield awesome divine magic that can change reality and the world around them while being a counter to dragon energy (Divine Fire, Kormir's Fire in Sun's Refuge, Foefire, djinn using Abaddon's magic to initially protect themselves from Branding until Kralkatorrik found a loophole via consuming Balthazar, Exalting ritual making the Exalted immune to corruption etc.).

    Tyria may not necessarily have an Abrahamic all-powerful God to reign over it (although Koda, as Tyria's supposed primal spirit who made the kodan guide the other spirits if tales are to be believed, might be the closest one to such if he truly created Tyria), the Six Gods are more akin to Greek, Egyptian, Finnish etc. gods that can be killed despite them wielding great powers. You just need to look at the Six from the lense of fantasy and mythology although it's also understandable if one decides to follow asuran and charr views that no being should be seen as a god no matter what power they wield and how such beings are simply more powerful creatures than typical mortals.

    Devs have also debunked any connection between Elder Dragons and gods multiple times both in game and on forums, stating that the gods had no connection to Tyria before and that the dragons were native to Tyria. They even lampshaded this player speculation with the Priory book where some scholars tried to connect the gods and dragons but had found no definite proof for it.

    The closest we can say about dragons and the Six being connected is that maybe the gods served the same purpose on their homeworld that the dragons presently serve on Tyria: they may have been balancers of magic of their own version of the All there before the human homeworld was implied to have been destroyed and forcing the gods, humanity and likely Forgotten into exile on Tyria.

    Also what would happen to Aurene since she's an Elder Dragon herself now? I know about the Glint prophecy stuff but what if she cannot contain all this power anymore?
    Aurene, Glint, Kuunuvang and a lot of other dragons are the evidence that not all dragons are bad.

    Although Aurene seems to be particularly resistant to Torment, she can't take over all the Elder Dragons even if she could wield all the magic somehow for one simple reason: the Antikytheria mechanism requires the minimum of four balancers in a constant magnetic push/pull movement or the system collapses. In other words, Tyria needs at least three more replacements although five besides Aurene would be beneficial. If Tyrians wanted to get even more ambitious, they could even go for 12 replacements with each one wielding only one domain per balancer total. That way we'd lessen the burden of magic on future replacements as they no longer have to worry about handling two domains at once.

    Kralkatorrik also uttered prophetic words to his Torment about Aurene: "She is the FIRST of her kind." So in his final moments Kralkatorrik may have seen a new dawn of civilization which Glint herself was after: Aurene being the first replacement who may potentially guide the future replacements to their destined roles.

    We also know that the replacements will need champion(s) per balancer to lessen the burden of magic and establish a bond between the balancer and mortals. So not only will we need to find replacements, we'll also need champions we can entrust with forming a bond with the replacements and hope that none of these candidates go power hungry. It's unlikely that we can find more babies or hatchlings to fulfill the role, so some of the future replacements may need to already be adults. It's unknown if ghosts can be recruited for this purpose: if it's possible, we should be asking Glint and Vlast's ghosts to emerge in Tyria and take over for some of the fallen Elder Dragons.

    The lesser dragons themselves aren't necessarily good or bad. The one problem they've had is that very few of them ever bothered to sympathize or empathize with mortals because they, as long-lived beings, don't necessarily view mortality the same way others do. We've seen both Albax and Kuunavang openly threaten mortals (Kuunavang warned mortals that they should never refuse a gift from someone who can swallow mortals whole, while Albax cursed people with bad luck if they acted disrespectfully towards him), and that's not the kind of action truly "good" beings would ever do. They'd be more like Vlast in that they never truly bonded with mortals even if they interacted with them as opposed to Aurene and the saltspray Shiny (who should be around Vlast's age by now) who established a bond with their mortal "parent" since hatching.

    We know there are multiple dragon subspecies out there like saltsprays, rockhides, dragon mosses, drakes, wyverns, hydras and the recently emerged skyscales to mention a few, and yet saltsprays are the only known "lesser" dragon race to be able to speak since hatching, which might actually elevate them into "high" dragons depending on how the devs intend to classify them. Most dragons seem rather beastly although I'd love to hear a hydra communicate with us as unlikely as that seems.

    You know what? I even trust Jormag at this point as they only want to put a stop to the missuse of such power like magic.
    However there's so much we don't know yet and I hope we get everything uncovered of this series' lore.
    Forgot to add this: The lore of this series is one of my all time favorites alongside with the Elder Scrolls series. Both hold an important place in my heart.

    While Tom Abernathy has said that Jormag doesn't lie per se as truth is a much more useful manipulation tool, Jormag can in fact lie via omission and using specific bits from the truth for their own uses. Given how Jormag broke their promise to Asgeir by attacking Owl and destroying hundreds of norn after telling Asgeir that they wanted to spare the norn, either the skaalds' stories have been warped in the telling, or Jormag always intended to subdue the Spirits of the Wild and persuade the norn to their side. I would not trust Jormag with anything given their track record and manipulation tactics although part of this stems from Jormag not truly understanding the mortal races due to lacking a bond with them since infancy.

    Jormag may intend to change things up a bit with their new champion, and Jormag's actions may even be "justified" if it turns out that the real Jormag does desire some peaceful things while Jormag's Torment is the more deceptive parasite wanting to freeze everything over, but listening to the Ice Dragon's whispers and lessons will nevertheless carry a heavy price as Owl warned the norn about in the distant past.

    There's a bunch of interesting lore we've yet to explore in the Icebrood Saga like the asura Finn mentioning a prophecy supposedly predicting Knut Whitebear's death ("...and the muttering voices will call for his blood."), which I've interpreted as actually meaning Jormag trying to tempt Knut's sons Sigfast and Skarti (descendants of Asgeir Dragonrender) who both have been implied to be torn about whether to stay at home or go fight Jormag while having their own rivalries and dark ambitions.

    There's also the interesting idea of a potential Dragon Spirit existing among the Spirits of the Wild as hinted at by Skuld who claims that each animal on Tyria has its own associated spirit. Dragon would thus be the natural embodiment of all Tyrian dragons, including the Elder Dragons, and could potentially be the Mother whom Kralkatorrik mentioned. Either Dragon could've been slain in the distant past, or she went into hiding and cut herself off from the Mists like Owl did, but either way Dragon's absence would've weakened all dragons just like Owl's "demise" weakened and confused all owls, so these spirits are intrisically tied to the species they represent via the Mists somehow.

    I'm glad you find the lore of GW franchise fascinating! There truly is some depth to Tyrian lore, and I hope we get to flesh out the charr and norn, as well as various other races related to Jormag such as jotun, grawl, kodan, quaggan, maybe even trolls and the dire wolves (if devs ever intend to deliver on Garm's backstory, what happened to his dire wolf pack, how he met Eir and chose her as his alpha) as time goes on. The Icebrood Saga announcement trailer also showed centaurs and krait, so I assume they'll feature in some way too. Perhaps we'll see some development for the Separatists who should be making their move now while charr leadership has been weakened by various deaths all the while the power struggles begin within legion hierarchy as new imperator candidates try to make their bid for their respective legion thrones. :)

  • Cynder.2509Cynder.2509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wow, there's a lot of answers here actually and one very long one. Thank you for your contribution.
    I'll take the time soon to read through everything once my concentration comes back to me and I'll find time.

    I'm Hunter, he/him
    Character infos: https://is-it-because-im-charr.tumblr.com/charactersgw2

    canthaconfirmed