How might a 15v15 pvp map benefit the pvp community?

I am not a game developer. But I started to wonder about this question because we often hear about problems in GW2 pvp, the biggest of which is population. It seems arguable that the one of the most frequent complaints is population, and how a lack of population contributes to poor match making, and how poor match making leads to frustration among many of the less hard core players. Even hard core players who sometimes benefit from poorly matched games dont want this. The best of them want a challenge. So how does Gw2 increase interest in pvp? Maybe something is simply missing from the menu.

Would a larger map offer the opportunity for newer or less experienced players to cut their teeth in a more forgiving, less harsh, PvP experience?Would a larger map allow for players to learn about PvP while not feeling utterly frustrated?Would a larger map allow for players to discover builds and professions and mechanics?Would a larger map allow players to build confidence in PvP?Would a larger map serve as a type of training ground for smaller team sizes?Would a larger map make players feel better about their PvP experience overall?To the contrary, would a larger map hurt the pvp scene? (queue times for example)

The way I see it, there are essentially two choices when it comes to pvp in GW2. 5v5 or WvW.

Maybe whats missing is a link in between.

They already have a 15v15 map created, which they did years ago but it has a latency problem for everyone involved so they cannot release it.

I would be more than happy with 7 vs 7 or 10 vs 10 PvP with existing 5 vs 5 maps.

The low population thing for bad match making is a big big big fat blanket statement that is too often thrown over the real problem which encompasses MOST of the bad matches that people experience, and that is a finely blended culmination of:

1. Solo/Duo only inviting synch queue play
2. Ability to create infinite f2p alt accounts that players don't care about the rating on, or level of dishonor
3. Win Trading, Alt throwing, Other forms of match manipulation
4. Arenanet literally not caring at all that it is happening, not taking any administrative action whatsoever to prevent it or punish it

15v15 will be closer to Zerg vs Zerg in wvw. Not fun at all. It would only work if there is scattered objectives that would incentivize disbursing over piling in one place.

@setdog.1592 said:How might a 15v15 pvp map benefit the pvp community?

By reminding everyone of why the mode actually is 5v5.

Even 8v8 hotjoins were a complete clusterfuck back in the day.

I would actually love to see ranked matches use the mist champions more. It's insane that there aren't more maps with a focus on them considering there are 4 reward tracks for them.

edit: referring to stronghold maps.

5v5 in every point that's how it will be

@Aktium.9506 said:

@setdog.1592 said:How might a 15v15 pvp map benefit the pvp community?

By reminding everyone of why the mode actually is 5v5.

8v8 hotjoins were dope.PvP was very popular back then.Then they got rid of 8v8 hotjoin for 5v5 to prep everyone for #esports.Flashforward today, PvP doesn't even have #esports. It's pretty much dead. And 5v5s is still going on.

Hrmmm maybe duos will bring people back. NOPEHrmmmm maybe trios will bring people back. NOPE

Hmmm... Maybe you had it right the first time. Got greedy with #esports forcing everyone into 5v5, taking away HOTJOINS for a bit to force everybody into rank. Now you wondering where you went wrong.

Yes 15v15 would be good.Wanna know why? Most of these premades they are 2-6 people friends/group.15 is too much for those 2-6 premade groups to win easily because they have to account for 10 other people, 2-6 people is only 20-40% of the group. They are not guaranteed a win unlike duos trios.

Playerbase is small because all it has is small teams. It will grow when you have a larger team size. People like big fights, not #esports pro league, Quake Champions, Guild Wars 2, 5 people or less teams.

esports focus killed this PvP. It was right with 8v8, so many FULL hotjoin servers.

When you say it was kitten, its because it was tough to ensure a win a majority of the time because it aint easy to fill up a team with 8 great players.Quake Champions is a dead game because 4v4* and a duel focusGW2 #esports is dead because 5v5 focus down the throats of everyone

Look at the games doing good, Fortnite, Apex Legends. Sure they FPS, but this is PvP, PvP is more FPS than it is to MMORPG. 60 player mode, 100 player mode. People don't want to be dueling, they want team modes. 5v5 is ok, but its like 1 of 10 range of acceptable, 8v8 10v10 is more comfy. People less likely to call you out for being bad because its hard to tell when you have 8 players on your team. But in 5v5 or 3v3 2v2, if you are bad, you'll be hearing it ALL DAY from your teammate and people do not want to play in a PvP mode with hostile atmosphere, hence 8v8 was great, and 15v15 would be great too.

WvW isn't PvP, theres no arrowcarts, no defending a keep, etc in PvP. You don't have Conquest mode in WvW too.

8v8 was great, I have no idea what you talking about.

@jwhite.7012 said:I would actually love to see ranked matches use the mist champions more. It's insane that there aren't more maps with a focus on them considering there are 4 reward tracks for them.

edit: referring to stronghold maps.

No, there is a reason stronghold isnt in ranked

@Tharan.9085 said:

@jwhite.7012 said:I would actually love to see ranked matches use the mist champions more. It's insane that there aren't more maps with a focus on them considering there are 4 reward tracks for them.

edit: referring to stronghold maps.

because....?

Think about how often people don't accept queue or AFK or disconnect in 5v5.

Now multiply that by 3.

As someone who used to spend a lot of time organising 15v15/20v20 in WvW, getting that many people to all turn up and be active at the same time is a royal pain in the proverbial.

It would be fun to have as an extra option, like Stronghold, but there's no way you could make a legitimate game-mode out of it. Maybe 5+ years ago you could have done, but not with today's population.

Really, if you want to try out PvP, but want the protection and anonymity that large numbers provide, then that's what WvW is for.

I honestly dont think it will. The game already suffers from to many aoe red circles in 5v5 conquest. If aoe skills get a major towening down then ill be all for 15+v15+.

@jwhite.7012 said:

@Tharan.9085 said:

@jwhite.7012 said:I would actually love to see ranked matches use the mist champions more. It's insane that there aren't more maps with a focus on them considering there are 4 reward tracks for them.

edit: referring to stronghold maps.

Because it is utterly unfun and would require two seperate ques and two seperate leaderboards