What Happened to Mesmer Boonstrip?

In GW1 we had a vast array of boonstrip, we were masters of undoing the plans of our foes, they didn't release a single expansion to the world without giving mesmers more (or sometimes the same) ways to strip boons. Fast forward to now and we have 2 Elite specs release with zero boonstrip; no boonstrip on a well, no boon strip on an Axe, no boonstrip on a deception, nor on an Ambush nor mirror.

Does anyone else find this odd?

BUT WE HAVE ON TRAIT FOR IT?!?! AND DONT FORGET THIRD SWORD CHAIN!!!!!111!!!111!!!BTW WHY WOULD U WANT TO STRIP BOONS IN A DUELLING BUILD

sarcasm off

Spellbreaker definitely should’ve been what Mesmers got, but meh....that’s none of my business files nails

@Tseison.4659 said:Spellbreaker definitely should’ve been what Mesmers got, but meh....that’s none of my business files nails

Spellbreaker is the most blatant rip of the GW1 lockdown mesmer theme that got hijacked for warrior and recolored yellow. Honestly it's disgusting.

Hey they made arcane thievery a 25s CD after testing the change in PvP for 2-3 months to make sure it wouldn’t be too OP!

Dont forget null field and phantasmal disenchanted too!

@apharma.3741 said:Hey they made arcane thievery a 25s CD after testing the change in PvP for 2-3 months to make sure it wouldn’t be too OP!

Dont forget null field and phantasmal disenchanted too!

YEAH YEAH EXACTLY JUST SWAP PORTAL FOR NULL FIELD AND BLINK FOR PHANTASMAL; SOLVES ALL.

To quote my beloved Harry

"HAPPY HALLOWEEN TOUGH"

A lot of it resides in the warrior/mesmer multiclass, Spellbreaker. But there's still some!

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Tseison.4659 said:Spellbreaker definitely should’ve been what Mesmers got, but meh....that’s none of my business

files nails

100% agreement there Pyro. I still play GW1 and have more fun on Mesmer there.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Tseison.4659 said:Spellbreaker definitely should’ve been what Mesmers got, but meh....that’s none of my business

files nails

OOPS lag related double post.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Tseison.4659 said:Spellbreaker definitely should’ve been what Mesmers got, but meh....that’s none of my business

files nails

But we're mesmers, it would've been even more OP on us for reasons /s

Also, don''t forget we have boonstrip on traited shatters so already all we need /s

Boon strips with the elite specs would've been nice to see for sure, even if it was only a single skill that did it. But as it is, SB absolutely blows us out of the water for boonstripping, and scourge has such high levels of boon corruption that it also blows us out of the water. Why a single traitline should be better than the entire mesmer class I'll never know.

well we all knows that 3 boon exchange 3 condition is too op on a 25s skill which requires you face your target and make sure your target is in that magical cone without any visual tell otherwise it will fail magically .and it also has a delay for boon removal part .

btwi like how everyone forgot

MIND STABIT DOES INSANE DMG WITH LARGE AOE CIRCLE WITHOUT ANY AFTER CAST TIMEand also remove 1 boon

The Scourge's utilities are equivalent to casting CoF with Shattered Concentration & Master of Fragmentation traits, plus their additional effect.

Spellbreaker seems to have run away with quite a bit of Mesmer stuff.

Very odd they overlooked Mesmer, since clearly Mesmer magic was on their minds.

Holy imagine FC with the resitance trait. Tbh that would REALLY be OP on mesmer, cause we can easily go for a condi build.

• nerf mesmer and give spellbreakers burning on every ability

It's probably largely a matter of "not this time". Chronomancer is a spec based on support and/or renewing your illusions, while mirage is focused on deception and DPS. The countermagic specialist - the spellbreaker through the eyes of the mesmer - could well be on the table, it's just not one of the first two.

That said, though, I think boonhate could afford to be something that is a bit less of a famine/feast scenario. We currently have some professions which have none, and some which have so much that you pretty much might as well not even try using boons against them. It would probably be better to normalise that out some so that all professions can do at least some, but there aren't any that have so much that you're better off just not using boons against them at all.

@draxynnic.3719 said:It's probably largely a matter of "not this time". Chronomancer is a spec based on support and/or renewing your illusions, while mirage is focused on deception and DPS. The countermagic specialist - the spellbreaker through the eyes of the mesmer - could well be on the table, it's just not one of the first two.

That said, though, I think boonhate could afford to be something that is a bit less of a famine/feast scenario. We currently have some professions which have none, and some which have so much that you pretty much might as well not even try using boons against them. It would probably be better to normalise that out some so that all professions can do at least some, but there aren't any that have so much that you're better off just not using boons against them at all.

I disagree here. One of the biggest problems with GW2 PvP is the fact that everybody can do everything. They even gave our specialization mechanic, ( Alacrity, ) to Rev. Since classes have no particular identity, people simply pick the one that's currently OP and play that.

Still, counter skills and interrupt has been the domain of Mesmer since GW1... giving it to war didn't make a lot of sense.

@draxynnic.3719 said:It's probably largely a matter of "not this time". Chronomancer is a spec based on support and/or renewing your illusions, while mirage is focused on deception and DPS. The countermagic specialist - the spellbreaker through the eyes of the mesmer - could well be on the table, it's just not one of the first two.

That said, though, I think boonhate could afford to be something that is a bit less of a famine/feast scenario. We currently have some professions which have none, and some which have so much that you pretty much might as well not even try using boons against them. It would probably be better to normalise that out some so that all professions can do at least some, but there aren't any that have so much that you're better off just not using boons against them at all.

"Boons expire quicker inside well" is good for Chrono flavour and "killing a clone/shattering a mirror removes a boon" is good for Mirage flavour. Remember these specs are still Mesmers and should still have its themes of denial and control running through them.

@Ithilwen.1529 said:I disagree here. One of the biggest problems with GW2 PvP is the fact that everybody can do everything. They even gave our specialization mechanic, ( Alacrity, ) to Rev. Since classes have no particular identity, people simply pick the one that's currently OP and play that.

Still, counter skills and interrupt has been the domain of Mesmer since GW1... giving it to war didn't make a lot of sense.

Just because Chronos first got Alacrity doesn't mean it would only ever be yours for ever and ever and ever and no one else can have it because its MINE.

Also, you-don't-think-Warriors-ever-had-interrupts-and-counter-skills-?

@draxynnic.3719 said:It's probably largely a matter of "not this time". Chronomancer is a spec based on support and/or renewing your illusions, while mirage is focused on deception and DPS. The countermagic specialist - the spellbreaker through the eyes of the mesmer - could well be on the table, it's just not one of the first two.

That said, though, I think boonhate could afford to be something that is a bit less of a famine/feast scenario. We currently have some professions which have none, and some which have so much that you pretty much might as well not even try using boons against them. It would probably be better to normalise that out some so that all professions can do at least some, but there aren't any that have so much that you're better off just not using boons against them at all.

Someone suggested that PoF's elite specs reminded them of GW1's multiclassing. Warriors got something mesmer-like and we got something thief-like with mirage. If that's the approach they're taking and the closest we'll ever get to multiclassing, I don't think I'd totally be against it.

@Coulter.2315 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:It's probably largely a matter of "not this time". Chronomancer is a spec based on support and/or renewing your illusions, while mirage is focused on deception and DPS. The countermagic specialist - the spellbreaker through the eyes of the mesmer - could well be on the table, it's just not one of the first two.

That said, though, I think boonhate could afford to be something that is a bit less of a famine/feast scenario. We currently have some professions which have none, and some which have so much that you pretty much might as well not even try using boons against them. It would probably be better to normalise that out some so that all professions can do at least some, but there aren't any that have so much that you're better off just not using boons against them at all.

It actually wouldn't make a bad shatter either. Have it be something like: Pain of Glass - When used, your clones take on the substance of glass. Any damage done to them causes them to shatter in a rain of glass. Enemies near the clone take damage and/or receive a debuff. Using it again while any clones are still alive returns them to their normal state (or maybe turns them into mirrors?). It could be traited so any debuffs on the clone are transferred to who killed it or maybe so successfully fooling someone reduces the refresh of clone summoning abilities.

@Ithilwen.1529 said:I disagree here. One of the biggest problems with GW2 PvP is the fact that everybody can do everything. They even gave our specialization mechanic, ( Alacrity, ) to Rev. Since classes have no particular identity, people simply pick the one that's currently OP and play that.

Very much this. This might even be okay for 5v5 PvP, but WvW could work if classes were incredibly narrow. And only then. Because that allows you to balance 50-100 people fights, easily.

Look at DAoC where in the early game many characters had only 4-5 abilities on their hotbar. Total. Oh and you couldn't respec at all, so it's not like you could swap around dynamically. Much as this design was outdated and would be terrible, this had the big upside of enabling their RvR game mode in a unique way, as an "archer" was effectively someone who shot you with a bow. They didn't also lay traps, empower your allies, knock you back, heal you, cleanse your conditions, summon spirits and whatnot. They shot arrows at you. They're an archer. What do you think they did? :tongue:

I wished mantra of Pain would give us boon strip as well when using a charge.

It would be nice if instead of the GS trait we had a deal X damage when removing a boon trait, would set domination up to be a very customisable and synergistic trait line.

@Ithilwen.1529 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:It's probably largely a matter of "not this time". Chronomancer is a spec based on support and/or renewing your illusions, while mirage is focused on deception and DPS. The countermagic specialist - the spellbreaker through the eyes of the mesmer - could well be on the table, it's just not one of the first two.

That said, though, I think boonhate could afford to be something that is a bit less of a famine/feast scenario. We currently have some professions which have none, and some which have so much that you pretty much might as well not even try using boons against them. It would probably be better to normalise that out some so that all professions can do at least some, but there aren't any that have so much that you're better off just not using boons against them at all.

It was pretty much how GW2 was sold to begin with. Any profession can perform any role, they just use different methods to get there. So you don't have to switch professions if you need to perform a specific role, you can just play the profession(s) you most enjoy and adjust your build according to whatever you need at the time.

When it comes to counter skills and interrupts - warriors had them in GW1 as well. In fact, one of the GW1 PvP templates all along was a warrior/mes or mes/warrior (can't remember which) which combined mesmer and warrior interrupts to really shut the enemy down. Wanna guess what that template was called? :p

As Cantatus noted, a lot of the elite specialisations are essentially the GW2 equivalent of multi-profession builds. They pretty much said outright that Spellbreaker was the result of warriors picking up some mesmer magic and adapting it to their own fighting styles. What we see with spellbreaker is what happens when a warrior learns a bit of mesmer magic, focusing on the magic used to counter and depower spellcasters. That's what it is.

The problem in the comparison is that at the moment we don't have the mesmer elite specialisation that focuses on that. Just the basic boonhate of the core mesmer... which just doesn't compete with spellbreaker or scourge boonhate.

@Cantatus.4065 said:

@Coulter.2315 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:It's probably largely a matter of "not this time". Chronomancer is a spec based on support and/or renewing your illusions, while mirage is focused on deception and DPS. The countermagic specialist - the spellbreaker through the eyes of the mesmer - could well be on the table, it's just not one of the first two.

That said, though, I think boonhate could afford to be something that is a bit less of a famine/feast scenario. We currently have some professions which have none, and some which have so much that you pretty much might as well not even try using boons against them. It would probably be better to normalise that out some so that all professions can do at least some, but there aren't any that have so much that you're better off just not using boons against them at all.

Oh, yes, I remember the "clone death" traits. Apparently, people complained about getting punished for getting fooled and killing clones. Still a bit salty about that myself, particularly since it's not that hard to pick out the real mesmer to begin with.

The issue with the clone death trait was not that it punished you for killing the wrong mesmer but that it punished you for properly playing vs a mesmer by depriving them of their clones. That and the clone death traits would stack up a decent amount of bleed and weakness doing considerable damage and preventing counter attacks in some ways.

@apharma.3741 said:The issue with the clone death trait was not that it punished you for killing the wrong mesmer but that it punished you for properly playing vs a mesmer by depriving them of their clones. That and the clone death traits would stack up a decent amount of bleed and weakness doing considerable damage and preventing counter attacks in some ways.

Eh, I don't think "just throw around AoE and attack blindly so the clones auto-die" was actually intended to be "properly playing vs a mesmer by depriving them of their clones" on release. Clones were marketed as a genuine tool of deception, and the incentive should be to identify the mesmer and bring them down rather than just swinging at everything.

Seriously, the general tactic against mesmers is just to drop lots of AoE so that illusions die before they can do anything. The clone death traits meant that mesmers actually had an answer to that strategy: the enemy has a disincentive to do that because they'll get hurt by the clone death traits (and clones that died with one of those traits had a different death animation, so you could quickly identify when a mesmer had at least one of those traits). Now, mesmers don't really have a good answer to that tactic.