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Warrior needs a buff

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  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    You'll know they found the right balance when every profession is on Metabattle as a Meta build.
    Right now, no version of Warrior is Meta.
    Right now, no version of Warrior is Great.

    Metabattle is quite an unreliable source on what is good and bad

    What are the reliable sources then? Do they have Warrior in Meta or Great?
    Does it include Berserker?
    Does it include core Warrior?

    Warrior is in a bad state right now, but using metabattle as a reference doesnt work because it'd unreliable and doesnt reflect the meta.

  • Strider.7849Strider.7849 Member ✭✭✭

    @Pati.2438 said:
    Nah Warrior itself need only a little bit more love i gues. For example ....

    Bring damage back Damage to Warriors CC skills. (only low dps, something like "Bull's Charge" = 1-2k damage (critical hit)).This should be the Special thing of why you using Warrior ( Guardian got Aegis, Thief got Stealth special attacks, Mes got clones, Necro got a second Life bar and Barrier, Ele got Elements (with mutch dodges i gues), Rev got its Heroes, Engi its Kits.... so why Warrior not Damage on cc?)

    Then for the love of Defence ... bring "Defy Pain" back into a usefull skill (bring it maybe on 90 seconds cd)..... that would be the moment when Berserker will maybe see a use in the meta.

    For Spellbraker i would say just reduce the Daze from "Full Counter" back to 0,5 seconds (cause the 2 seconds Daze is just pretty toxic design) BUT Buff its dps back to a 2-3k (critical hit) Damage lvl.

    Damage on CC isn't needed and they can keep it consistent with other classes. A few things that will get warrior back into a decent spot:

    defense line traits reworked as promised, the 300s CDs were a placeholder until it is reworked. They are not meant to be used in its current state.

    Dagger and offhand dagger on spellbreaker needs a damage buff.

    Balanced stance and berserker stance need to have the formerly traited duration made baseline.

    Hammer weapon needs a complete rework.

    Offhand sword needs some improvement.

    Berserker needs a CD reduction on activating berserker mode. 13-15 seconds is too long makes its gameplay stale both in PvP environments and PvE. Having to spam skills to extend its duration is bad.

  • uberkingkong.8041uberkingkong.8041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2020

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    You'll know they found the right balance when every profession is on Metabattle as a Meta build.
    Right now, no version of Warrior is Meta.
    Right now, no version of Warrior is Great.

    Metabattle is quite an unreliable source on what is good and bad

    What are the reliable sources then? Do they have Warrior in Meta or Great?
    Does it include Berserker?
    Does it include core Warrior?

    Warrior is in a bad state right now, but using metabattle as a reference doesnt work because it'd unreliable and doesnt reflect the meta.

    What is unreliable about Metabattle? Are the builds they post a joke? Are the feedbacks a joke?

    What are some reliable PvP or WvW sources for GW2 builds then?

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    You'll know they found the right balance when every profession is on Metabattle as a Meta build.
    Right now, no version of Warrior is Meta.
    Right now, no version of Warrior is Great.

    Metabattle is quite an unreliable source on what is good and bad

    What are the reliable sources then? Do they have Warrior in Meta or Great?
    Does it include Berserker?
    Does it include core Warrior?

    Warrior is in a bad state right now, but using metabattle as a reference doesnt work because it'd unreliable and doesnt reflect the meta.

    What is unreliable about Metabattle? Are the builds they post a joke? Are the feedbacks a joke?

    What are some reliable PvP or WvW sources for GW2 builds then?

    They still got 2 firebrand builds in great altough firebrand really isnt good right now. They don't even have some of the strongest builds that are currently in the game like core symbol guardian or decap scrapper. Metabattle just always is slower than the actual Meta.
    GodsofPvP is a good place to see the actual best builds for each class in PvP.

    problem of gods of pvp it shows you the 1-2 best build for the class, it doesnt show meta.
    I sure as hell dont see warriors or mirages anywhere.
    Its just holo,tempest,reaper,thief and many different rev builds with occasional cancer bunker kitten ranger/scrapper/guard/rev

  • Just do what I did, stop playing warrior. The moment I switched to another class i started wrecking people again and getting consistent wins. Anet wants to get rid of warrior so just let em.

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2020

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    You'll know they found the right balance when every profession is on Metabattle as a Meta build.
    Right now, no version of Warrior is Meta.
    Right now, no version of Warrior is Great.

    Metabattle is quite an unreliable source on what is good and bad

    What are the reliable sources then? Do they have Warrior in Meta or Great?
    Does it include Berserker?
    Does it include core Warrior?

    I'd say support spellbreaker is a high tier build and perfectly playable. However, when your classes best build is tank or support it's in a bad spot.

    support spellbreaker is higher tier for noobs, just like renegade bunker is higher tier for noobs for revs.
    you only find it more effective, because it requires less effort.

    also metabattle is highly inaccurate, warrior is much much lower then Good tier, in many top player's eye

    warrior has been unplayable in pvp
    for 6 months till now

    good job balance team

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2020

    @felix.2386 said:
    warrior is much much lower then Good tier, in many top player's eye

    And those top players, who make up a very small percentage of the playerbase, hardly matter in balance issues.
    The average, where the vast majority is at, is much more important.
    And there, Warrior isn't as underperforming as said very small percentage claims.

  • uberkingkong.8041uberkingkong.8041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    warrior is much much lower then Good tier, in many top player's eye

    And those top players, who make up a very small percentage of the playerbase, hardly matter in balance issues.
    The average, where the vast majority is at, is much more important.
    And there, Warrior isn't as underperforming as said very small percentage claims.

    It is underperforming for them.
    Metabattle has reviews, those reviews are not from top players. The warrior is not great or meta because of bad reviews from people not top player.

    There is no Great build for Warriors
    There is no Meta build for Warriors
    Spellbreaker is the ONLY Good build for Warrior
    Berserker and core Warrior not even considered good, they that bad.

    Difference between GodsofPvP and Metabattle, Metabattle allows for reviews by anybody. Metabattle has reviews and usually when you have reviews its more legit.

    Who knows maybe that warrior build on godsofpvp is a joke. Not Meta and Not Great and maybe not EVEN GOOD
    No reviews, nobody to say "this build is meta" "joke build, do not use"

    Your logic is flawed, if you think godsofpvp is better and you say it doesn't matter about top players.
    Godsofpvp i dont know much, but if a top player made it, and everyone else assumes its good. There you go contradicting yourself.
    Metabattle, I KNOW its going to get reviewed, I KNOW community will vote on how good it is. It's not a build someone makes and no vote, no review like godsofpvp.

    You "metabattle is unreliable, godsofpvp better"
    You "dont matter what pros think, its the average player that matters"

    godsofpvp nothing to do with avg player
    metabattle everything to do with avg player

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2020

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    warrior is much much lower then Good tier, in many top player's eye
    And those top players, who make up a very small percentage of the playerbase, hardly matter in balance issues.
    The average, where the vast majority is at, is much more important.
    And there, Warrior isn't as underperforming as said very small percentage claims.

    It is underperforming for them.
    Metabattle has reviews, those reviews are not from top players. The warrior is not great or meta because of bad reviews from people not top player.

    There is no Great build for Warriors
    There is no Meta build for Warriors
    Spellbreaker is the ONLY Good build for Warrior
    Berserker and core Warrior not even considered good, they that bad.

    Difference between GodsofPvP and Metabattle, Metabattle allows for reviews by anybody. Metabattle has reviews and usually when you have reviews its more legit.

    Who knows maybe that warrior build on godsofpvp is a joke. Not Meta and Not Great and maybe not EVEN GOOD
    No reviews, nobody to say "this build is meta" "joke build, do not use"

    Your logic is flawed, if you think godsofpvp is better and you say it doesn't matter about top players.
    Godsofpvp i dont know much, but if a top player made it, and everyone else assumes its good. There you go contradicting yourself.
    Metabattle, I KNOW its going to get reviewed, I KNOW community will vote on how good it is. It's not a build someone makes and no vote, no review like godsofpvp.

    You "metabattle is unreliable, godsofpvp better"
    You "dont matter what pros think, its the average player that matters"

    godsofpvp nothing to do with avg player

    Why are you quoting me, who said nothing about whether metabattle or godsofpvp is better?

    metabattle everything to do with avg player

    This is not even close to be true.

  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    warrior is much much lower then Good tier, in many top player's eye

    And those top players, who make up a very small percentage of the playerbase, hardly matter in balance issues.
    The average, where the vast majority is at, is much more important.
    And there, Warrior isn't as underperforming as said very small percentage claims.

    It is underperforming for them.
    Metabattle has reviews, those reviews are not from top players. The warrior is not great or meta because of bad reviews from people not top player.

    There is no Great build for Warriors
    There is no Meta build for Warriors
    Spellbreaker is the ONLY Good build for Warrior
    Berserker and core Warrior not even considered good, they that bad.

    Difference between GodsofPvP and Metabattle, Metabattle allows for reviews by anybody. Metabattle has reviews and usually when you have reviews its more legit.

    Who knows maybe that warrior build on godsofpvp is a joke. Not Meta and Not Great and maybe not EVEN GOOD
    No reviews, nobody to say "this build is meta" "joke build, do not use"

    Your logic is flawed, if you think godsofpvp is better and you say it doesn't matter about top players.
    Godsofpvp i dont know much, but if a top player made it, and everyone else assumes its good. There you go contradicting yourself.
    Metabattle, I KNOW its going to get reviewed, I KNOW community will vote on how good it is. It's not a build someone makes and no vote, no review like godsofpvp.

    You "metabattle is unreliable, godsofpvp better"
    You "dont matter what pros think, its the average player that matters"

    godsofpvp nothing to do with avg player
    metabattle everything to do with avg player

    And metabattle reviews can be 3 years old and still count into the rating of the build. Metabattle is created by a gold player and is always slower than the actual meta.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yes warrior sucks
    No it wont be buffed
    Yes CMC doesnt want it buffed
    switch to better class, enjoy getting kitten on by bad players or play different game.

  • Lucentfir.7430Lucentfir.7430 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    Yes warrior sucks
    No it wont be buffed
    Yes CMC doesnt want it buffed
    switch to better class, enjoy getting kitten on by bad players or play different game.

    The sad truth really. On the bright side you can just play it to grief your team now in a legitimate way. :Kekw:

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Warrior would have been fine as is if engi and rev didnt do its job better while being able to do all other positions at the same time.

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @felix.2386 said:
    warrior is much much lower then Good tier, in many top player's eye

    And those top players, who make up a very small percentage of the playerbase, hardly matter in balance issues.
    The average, where the vast majority is at, is much more important.
    And there, Warrior isn't as underperforming as said very small percentage claims.

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @felix.2386 said:
    warrior is much much lower then Good tier, in many top player's eye

    And those top players, who make up a very small percentage of the playerbase, hardly matter in balance issues.
    The average, where the vast majority is at, is much more important.
    And there, Warrior isn't as underperforming as said very small percentage claims.

    are you high, balance should be made based on top level plays.
    how are you supposed to balance anything based on different skill level of players
    how are you able to balance around players who aren't capable of playing the class and is being handicapped.
    it is your LACK OF SKILL, not a problem of class.
    you make no sense.

    warrior has been unplayable in pvp
    for 6 months till now

    good job balance team

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    Yes warrior sucks
    No it wont be buffed
    Yes CMC doesnt want it buffed
    switch to better class, enjoy getting kitten on by bad players or play different game.

    I think it's the same reason Ele won't be buffed. CmC mained both ele and warrior in vanilla(I played with him in ranked) and understands those classes the best so their current power level is what he wants to put EVERYTHING at. Since he understands those classes so well, he figured out a way to make them his "vision". I agree with his vision, but he's going to take 5 years to bring the other remaining classes down to ele and warriors level at this rate.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    Yes warrior sucks
    No it wont be buffed
    Yes CMC doesnt want it buffed
    switch to better class, enjoy getting kitten on by bad players or play different game.

    I think it's the same reason Ele won't be buffed. CmC mained both ele and warrior in vanilla(I played with him in ranked) and understands those classes the best so their current power level is what he wants to put EVERYTHING at. Since he understands those classes so well, he figured out a way to make them his "vision". I agree with his vision, but he's going to take 5 years to bring the other remaining classes down to ele and warriors level at this rate.

    I dont think hes able to balance anything, ever. not even close.
    And I dont have 50 years to wait and find out, he doesnt even try lol

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    Yes warrior sucks
    No it wont be buffed
    Yes CMC doesnt want it buffed
    switch to better class, enjoy getting kitten on by bad players or play different game.

    I think it's the same reason Ele won't be buffed. CmC mained both ele and warrior in vanilla(I played with him in ranked) and understands those classes the best so their current power level is what he wants to put EVERYTHING at. Since he understands those classes so well, he figured out a way to make them his "vision". I agree with his vision, but he's going to take 5 years to bring the other remaining classes down to ele and warriors level at this rate.

    I dont think hes able to balance anything, ever. not even close.
    And I dont have 50 years to wait and find out, he doesnt even try lol

    I don't think it's on him at this point. Anet doesn't seem to allow him to release his changes outside of PvE patches anymore, be it living story, festivals, or a raid/fractal release. He isn't allowed to just put his changes in anymore.

    At least it seems that way, look at the most recent release times of all his changes. While they're nice, they need to be weekly changes, not MONTHLY(or longer). It's actually absurd how slow it is now, and people are unhappy with SPvP to the point where people like Vallun have stopped playing it due to the balance.

    When someone like Vallun, who will always find the game fun, and has played during the most boring kitten metas imaginable, is refusing to PvP, you know there's an issue.

    The person in charge of GW2 doesn't understand what a PvP game needs(constant balance changes). League of legends, even though is a horrible game and just "changes the meta to shake things up(bad design and basically admitting you lack the intelligence to balance your own game)", set a standard for 2 weeks between balance patches that the entire industry should be following

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    Yes warrior sucks
    No it wont be buffed
    Yes CMC doesnt want it buffed
    switch to better class, enjoy getting kitten on by bad players or play different game.

    I think it's the same reason Ele won't be buffed. CmC mained both ele and warrior in vanilla(I played with him in ranked) and understands those classes the best so their current power level is what he wants to put EVERYTHING at. Since he understands those classes so well, he figured out a way to make them his "vision". I agree with his vision, but he's going to take 5 years to bring the other remaining classes down to ele and warriors level at this rate.

    I dont think hes able to balance anything, ever. not even close.
    And I dont have 50 years to wait and find out, he doesnt even try lol

    I don't think it's on him at this point. Anet doesn't seem to allow him to release his changes outside of PvE patches anymore, be it living story, festivals, or a raid/fractal release. He isn't allowed to just put his changes in anymore.

    At least it seems that way, look at the most recent release times of all his changes. While they're nice, they need to be weekly changes, not MONTHLY(or longer). It's actually absurd how slow it is now, and people are unhappy with SPvP to the point where people like Vallun have stopped playing it due to the balance.

    When someone like Vallun, who will always find the game fun, and has played during the most boring kitten metas imaginable, is refusing to PvP, you know there's an issue.

    The person in charge of GW2 doesn't understand what a PvP game needs(constant balance changes). League of legends, even though is a horrible game and just "changes the meta to shake things up(bad design and basically admitting you lack the intelligence to balance your own game)", set a standard for 2 weeks between balance patches that the entire industry should be following

    oh I know, I have played every game type ever made extensively.
    PvP balance here is a sad joke, I have closer fights by doing pvp with friends in terraria while using bugged weapons then in gw2 lol

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    Yes warrior sucks
    No it wont be buffed
    Yes CMC doesnt want it buffed
    switch to better class, enjoy getting kitten on by bad players or play different game.

    I think it's the same reason Ele won't be buffed. CmC mained both ele and warrior in vanilla(I played with him in ranked) and understands those classes the best so their current power level is what he wants to put EVERYTHING at. Since he understands those classes so well, he figured out a way to make them his "vision". I agree with his vision, but he's going to take 5 years to bring the other remaining classes down to ele and warriors level at this rate.

    I dont think hes able to balance anything, ever. not even close.
    And I dont have 50 years to wait and find out, he doesnt even try lol

    I don't think it's on him at this point. Anet doesn't seem to allow him to release his changes outside of PvE patches anymore, be it living story, festivals, or a raid/fractal release. He isn't allowed to just put his changes in anymore.

    At least it seems that way, look at the most recent release times of all his changes. While they're nice, they need to be weekly changes, not MONTHLY(or longer). It's actually absurd how slow it is now, and people are unhappy with SPvP to the point where people like Vallun have stopped playing it due to the balance.

    When someone like Vallun, who will always find the game fun, and has played during the most boring kitten metas imaginable, is refusing to PvP, you know there's an issue.

    The person in charge of GW2 doesn't understand what a PvP game needs(constant balance changes). League of legends, even though is a horrible game and just "changes the meta to shake things up(bad design and basically admitting you lack the intelligence to balance your own game)", set a standard for 2 weeks between balance patches that the entire industry should be following

    oh I know, I have played every game type ever made extensively.
    PvP balance here is a sad joke, I have closer fights by doing pvp with friends in terraria while using bugged weapons then in gw2 lol

    Honestly, I think the person in charge of GW2 thinks giving PvPers "changes" when they also give PVErs stuff is "fair and content for everyone" in his/her eyes. It's very, very, very blatantly out of touch from what people actually want because the person very clearly does not play and thus doesn't understand PvP.

    I have more fun in unranked than ranked 100% of the time because ranked is nothing but bunkers and decap builds, or holo/thief/power rev duo's making easy matches for themselves farming my team of silvers.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2020

    @felix.2386 said:
    balance should be made based on top level plays.

    Why should you balance for less than 1% of the players and leaving only broken bones for the vast majority,
    when you could just make PvP better for said vast majority?
    The top less-than-1% will find something broken to exploit anyway.
    It's a no-brainer to see which one would make more people happier.

    If balance isn't for the good for the majority, it's not balance, it's even further deterioration of the game mode.

  • @Fueki.4753 said:

    @felix.2386 said:
    balance should be made based on top level plays.

    Why should you balance for less than 1% of the players and leaving only broken bones for the vast majority,
    when you could just make PvP better for said vast majority?
    The top less-than-1% will find something broken to exploit anyway.
    It's a no-brainer to see which one would make more people happier.

    If balance isn't for the good for the majority, it's not balance, it's even further deterioration of the game mode.

    You balance towards the high end because as player get better and learn you start to see the massive glaring issues, and the internal workings in a class. Balancing towards the low average end, then you're balancing around the people that don't know how to dodge properly and even double dodge for no reason, the same type of person that'll eat the old core combo of bulls charge, frenzy and 100 Blades, and call it OP, and plays no other class except for their single main class holding some big class bias on how other classes should be balanced. That's the ugly truth why you shouldn't balance towards the low end, a better place to balance would be to balance towards the top 10%-1%.

  • Xca.9721Xca.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    Yes warrior sucks
    No it wont be buffed
    Yes CMC doesnt want it buffed
    switch to better class, enjoy getting kitten on by bad players or play different game.

    I think it's the same reason Ele won't be buffed. CmC mained both ele and warrior in vanilla(I played with him in ranked) and understands those classes the best so their current power level is what he wants to put EVERYTHING at. Since he understands those classes so well, he figured out a way to make them his "vision". I agree with his vision, but he's going to take 5 years to bring the other remaining classes down to ele and warriors level at this rate.

    I dont think hes able to balance anything, ever. not even close.
    And I dont have 50 years to wait and find out, he doesnt even try lol

    I don't think it's on him at this point. Anet doesn't seem to allow him to release his changes outside of PvE patches anymore, be it living story, festivals, or a raid/fractal release. He isn't allowed to just put his changes in anymore.

    At least it seems that way, look at the most recent release times of all his changes. While they're nice, they need to be weekly changes, not MONTHLY(or longer). It's actually absurd how slow it is now, and people are unhappy with SPvP to the point where people like Vallun have stopped playing it due to the balance.

    When someone like Vallun, who will always find the game fun, and has played during the most boring kitten metas imaginable, is refusing to PvP, you know there's an issue.

    The person in charge of GW2 doesn't understand what a PvP game needs(constant balance changes). League of legends, even though is a horrible game and just "changes the meta to shake things up(bad design and basically admitting you lack the intelligence to balance your own game)", set a standard for 2 weeks between balance patches that the entire industry should be following

    I bet CmC is working on the new expansion and barely has time to balance the current PvP balance.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2020

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:
    You balance towards the high end because as player get better and learn you start to see the massive glaring issues, and the internal workings in a class.

    You balance around the average because that's where the most players are. It's simple as that.

    Also, hurry up and trash your misconception that players get better and learn.
    Most don't.
    Most blindly copy builds they find online, whether they are beyond their actual skill or not - and they most likely fail to use them properly.
    They won't even care about the internal working.
    The fact that many people even look for builds online is proof enough that people don't care about learning their chosen profession by experimenting themselves.

    If you were to do the absurd and balance around the top end, even more builds requiring skill beyond the average pop up, people try them out - and fail - then leave pvp, because they can't find builds that suits them.

    the low average end

    Try looking at some Gauß bells.
    The y-axis is the amount of players, while the x axis represents the player skill.
    Even hard-headed people should see that the average is around the middle and not at one end or the other.
    The low end is about as much of a low percentage as the top end and should be equally dismissed for balance.

  • Lucentfir.7430Lucentfir.7430 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:
    You balance towards the high end because as player get better and learn you start to see the massive glaring issues, and the internal workings in a class.

    You balance around the average because that's where the most players are. It's simple as that.

    Also, hurry up and trash your misconception that players get better and learn.
    Most don't.
    Most blindly copy builds they find online, whether they are beyond their actual skill or not - and they most likely fail to use them properly.
    They won't even care about the internal working.
    The fact that many people even look for builds online is proof enough that people don't care about learning their chosen profession by experimenting themselves.

    If you were to do the absurd and balance around the top end, even more builds requiring skill beyond the average pop up, people try them out - and fail - then leave pvp, because they can't find builds that suits them.

    the low average end

    Try looking at some Gauß bells.
    The y-axis is the amount of players, while the x axis represents the player skill.
    Even hard-headed people should see that the average is around the middle and not at one end or the other.
    The low end is about as much of a low percentage as the top end and should be equally dismissed for balance.

    I think the misconception here is you think players don't get better and improve, and then contradict yourself by saying most don't.(meaning some do) , that's easily why good players can read brainlet meta copy pasta builds played by average or bad players so easily, and outplay them even while playing meme builds. Which is why it shouldn't be balanced around the brainlet average, it should be balanced towards entry top end where there's at least some decent players that know how to play the classes decently and knows how it works. I don't even know how any of what you're spewing helps your reasoning why it should be balance towards the low average, but it looks like a lot of malarkey, grabbing for straws..

    Is that some "Do your own research" sort of move?? I'm not the one bringing graphs into this to prove something, so best link/post your your own proof to support your argument, since you're the one trying to convince people why it should be balanced for people that don't know how to dodge and can't think for themselves, and never try to improve?

  • uberkingkong.8041uberkingkong.8041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2020

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:
    You balance towards the high end because as player get better and learn you start to see the massive glaring issues, and the internal workings in a class.

    You balance around the average because that's where the most players are. It's simple as that.

    Also, hurry up and trash your misconception that players get better and learn.
    Most don't.
    Most blindly copy builds they find online, whether they are beyond their actual skill or not - and they most likely fail to use them properly.
    They won't even care about the internal working.
    The fact that many people even look for builds online is proof enough that people don't care about learning their chosen profession by experimenting themselves.

    If you were to do the absurd and balance around the top end, even more builds requiring skill beyond the average pop up, people try them out - and fail - then leave pvp, because they can't find builds that suits them.

    the low average end

    Try looking at some Gauß bells.
    The y-axis is the amount of players, while the x axis represents the player skill.
    Even hard-headed people should see that the average is around the middle and not at one end or the other.
    The low end is about as much of a low percentage as the top end and should be equally dismissed for balance.

    I think the misconception here is you think players don't get better and improve, and then contradict yourself by saying most don't.(meaning some do) , that's easily why good players can read brainlet meta copy pasta builds played by average or bad players so easily, and outplay them even while playing meme builds. Which is why it shouldn't be balanced around the brainlet average, it should be balanced towards entry top end where there's at least some decent players that know how to play the classes decently and knows how it works. I don't even know how any of what you're spewing helps your reasoning why it should be balance towards the low average, but it looks like a lot of malarkey, grabbing for straws..

    Is that some "Do your own research" sort of move?? I'm not the one bringing graphs into this to prove something, so best link/post your your own proof to support your argument, since you're the one trying to convince people why it should be balanced for people that don't know how to dodge and can't think for themselves, and never try to improve?

    He does have a point.
    I mean, look at Meta battle, the place where average players go and get builds.

    Not a single Berserker build, not a single core Warrior build.

    The build on godsofpvp is a joke too, its just A BUILD, doesn't mean its great or meta, its just something thats the best for warriors right now.... Which isn't Great or Meta.... Which is why WARRIORS NEED A BUFF.

    If warriors suck, no elite players are playing Warrior.
    How you going to balance it? Nobody is playing Warrior. No feedback because no one is playing.

    You KNOW the balance is bad when nobody is playing a Berserker.

    They should just look at metrics instead of listening to elites or anybody else.
    .01% people playing Berserker? Hrmmm maybe you should BUFF it.
    Nobody playing core warrior too??
    Of all the free to play players they chose NOT to play Warrior?
    Hrmmm maybe you should BUFF the HECK outta it.

    100 blades is a STAPLE Guild Wars ability. It should be as deadly as it sounds.
    Shouldn't be a SQUISHY necro facetanking it (not in lich form) because 100blades right now IS A JOKE.
    Just like Warrior in general.

    Squishy Necro (NOT IN LICH FORM) facetanking a Warrior going HAM on it. Perfectly okay
    Tough, Fierce, Majestic Warrior facetanking a Necro while going HAM on it. Not ok. Run away. TOUGH TANKY Warrior is NO match to be in a Necro's face.
    Necro doesn't even have to move, it OWNS the Warrior going 100b and throwing everything at it. THEY OWN WARRIORS so much, no movement necessary

    Usually.
    Squishy classes shouldn't be standing and eating melee, but in GW2 squishy class like Necro is a great tank for Warriors. Lich form NOT NECESSARY when its a warrior

    Because Warriors are in such bad shape
    They need A SERIOUS BIG BUFF.

    I mean Warrior can't get in the face of a Necro???
    What's the purpose of them then?
    Just be worthless?

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2020

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:
    I think the misconception here is you think players don't get better and improve

    Let's look at Arah explorable mode: Most players couldn't beat it and gave up trying, rather than improving - eventually it got nerfed before even Season 1 of the living story started.
    How about HoT? It was too hard for many and they didn't improve, so eventually it got nerfed.
    Raids are empty except for the top less than 1%. Why? Because most people (who tried them) failed at them and chose to not do them, rather than trying to improve in order to beat them. Not even the aspired stepping stones into raids, Strike Missions, fared well. The very easy ones are done by a lot of people, why the rather medium ones (Whisper of Jormag and the Frost Legion one) are shunned by many people that do the very easy ones. Meanwhile, Boneskinner is shunned by everyone but those that already raid anyway.
    Strike Missions failed as stepping stones into raids, causing no significant growth in the raider community and turned into proof that most people don't try to improve.
    Outside of GW2, FF14's Alliance Raid Roulette is another great example.
    Many people go the extra way to remove their equipment (and thus lower their item level) to ensure they get into the easier alliance raids) instead of even taking the risk having to do the more challenging.

    These are a few examples of how significant amounts of players don't bother improving or even attempting challenging content. Do you have any examples of significant amounts of players improving?

    that's easily why good players can read brainlet meta copy pasta builds played by average or bad players so easily, and outplay them even while playing meme builds.

    And those players are very few in comparison.

    Which is why it shouldn't be balanced around the brainlet average, it should be balanced towards entry top end where there's at least some decent players that know how to play the classes decently and knows how it works. I don't even know how any of what you're spewing helps your reasoning why it should be balance towards the low average, but it looks like a lot of malarkey, grabbing for straws..

    And why would you want to make the game decent for less than 1% again?
    Why should less than 1% enjoy the game, while the vast majority receives even less enjoyment than they do now?
    How does it make sense to please the minority of your customers, when you could do well for the majority?

    Is that some "Do your own research" sort of move??

    Your comment about "low average end" and how you think people want to cater to the worst players made it seem like you don't know about Gauß' normal distribution and how it's applicable to player numbers and skill, so I tried to give you a visual hit that how the average and the low end are two different entities in this discussion.

  • @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:
    You balance towards the high end because as player get better and learn you start to see the massive glaring issues, and the internal workings in a class.

    You balance around the average because that's where the most players are. It's simple as that.

    Also, hurry up and trash your misconception that players get better and learn.
    Most don't.
    Most blindly copy builds they find online, whether they are beyond their actual skill or not - and they most likely fail to use them properly.
    They won't even care about the internal working.
    The fact that many people even look for builds online is proof enough that people don't care about learning their chosen profession by experimenting themselves.

    If you were to do the absurd and balance around the top end, even more builds requiring skill beyond the average pop up, people try them out - and fail - then leave pvp, because they can't find builds that suits them.

    the low average end

    Try looking at some Gauß bells.
    The y-axis is the amount of players, while the x axis represents the player skill.
    Even hard-headed people should see that the average is around the middle and not at one end or the other.
    The low end is about as much of a low percentage as the top end and should be equally dismissed for balance.

    I think the misconception here is you think players don't get better and improve, and then contradict yourself by saying most don't.(meaning some do) , that's easily why good players can read brainlet meta copy pasta builds played by average or bad players so easily, and outplay them even while playing meme builds. Which is why it shouldn't be balanced around the brainlet average, it should be balanced towards entry top end where there's at least some decent players that know how to play the classes decently and knows how it works. I don't even know how any of what you're spewing helps your reasoning why it should be balance towards the low average, but it looks like a lot of malarkey, grabbing for straws..

    Is that some "Do your own research" sort of move?? I'm not the one bringing graphs into this to prove something, so best link/post your your own proof to support your argument, since you're the one trying to convince people why it should be balanced for people that don't know how to dodge and can't think for themselves, and never try to improve?

    He does have a point.
    I mean, look at Meta battle, the place where average players go and get builds.

    Not a single Berserker build, not a single core Warrior build.

    The build on godsofpvp is a joke too, its just A BUILD, doesn't mean its great or meta, its just something thats the best for warriors right now.... Which isn't Great or Meta.... Which is why WARRIORS NEED A BUFF.

    If warriors suck, no elite players are playing Warrior.
    How you going to balance it? Nobody is playing Warrior. No feedback because no one is playing.

    You KNOW the balance is bad when nobody is playing a Berserker.

    They should just look at metrics instead of listening to elites or anybody else.
    .01% people playing Berserker? Hrmmm maybe you should BUFF it.
    Nobody playing core warrior too??
    Of all the free to play players they chose NOT to play Warrior?
    Hrmmm maybe you should BUFF the HECK outta it.

    100 blades is a STAPLE Guild Wars ability. It should be as deadly as it sounds.
    Shouldn't be a SQUISHY necro facetanking it (not in lich form) because 100blades right now IS A JOKE.
    Just like Warrior in general.

    Squishy Necro (NOT IN LICH FORM) facetanking a Warrior going HAM on it. Perfectly okay
    Tough, Fierce, Majestic Warrior facetanking a Necro while going HAM on it. Not ok. Run away. TOUGH TANKY Warrior is NO match to be in a Necro's face.
    Necro doesn't even have to move, it OWNS the Warrior going 100b and throwing everything at it. THEY OWN WARRIORS so much, no movement necessary

    Usually.
    Squishy classes shouldn't be standing and eating melee, but in GW2 squishy class like Necro is a great tank for Warriors. Lich form NOT NECESSARY when its a warrior

    Because Warriors are in such bad shape
    They need A SERIOUS BIG BUFF.

    I mean Warrior can't get in the face of a Necro???
    What's the purpose of them then?
    Just be worthless?

    You do realize his post is saying warriors are fine because the low end doesn't consider it under-performing, aka where all the average lower skill players are. So it doesn't matter if the top players consider it bad because balance shouldn't be dictated toward the top end spectrum, where a lot of what works stems from to begin with and gets posted to sites like this?

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @felix.2386 said:
    warrior is much much lower then Good tier, in many top player's eye

    And those top players, who make up a very small percentage of the playerbase, hardly matter in balance issues.
    The average, where the vast majority is at, is much more important.
    And there, Warrior isn't as underperforming as said very small percentage claims.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2020

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:
    You do realize his post is saying warriors are fine because the low end doesn't consider it under-performing, aka where all the average lower skill players are. So it doesn't matter if the top players consider it bad because balance shouldn't be dictated toward the top end spectrum, where a lot of what works stems from to begin with and gets posted to sites like this?

    If you were to read my posts accurately, you'd release that my posts aren't about the low end, but about the average.
    For the average, Warriors still are dangerous and that's fine.

    If you can't distinguish between the average and the low end, you might want to look into improving that.
    After all, your posts imply that you are one of the players that always try to improve themselves.

    But rather than power-creeping warrior, other things should be toned down.
    We don't need more builds that can just roll over players in seconds, we need less.

  • uberkingkong.8041uberkingkong.8041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:
    You do realize his post is saying warriors are fine because the low end doesn't consider it under-performing, aka where all the average lower skill players are. So it doesn't matter if the top players consider it bad because balance shouldn't be dictated toward the top end spectrum, where a lot of what works stems from to begin with and gets posted to sites like this?

    If you were to read my posts accurately, you'd release that my posts aren't about the low end, but about the average.
    For the average, Warriors still are dangerous and that's fine.

    If you can't distinguish between the average and the low end, you might want to look into improving that.
    After all, your posts imply that you are one of the players that always try to improve themselves.

    But rather than power-creeping warrior, other things should be toned down.
    We don't need more builds that can just roll over players in seconds, we need less.

    Nah,
    We already have less builds that roll over players.

    Necro just stands there and whoops ANY warrior without even moving because they pretty good AND because Warriors are a joke.

    With less builds that roll over players? Does this mean NO WARRIORS are good?
    There should be a core build where if someone just stands and doesn't even move the Warrior should 100b that mofo down like he wasn't nothing.

    Instead we have Warriors that have issues taking down Mist Champions.
    I used the BEST version of Spellbreaker, which is good not Great not Meta.
    Mist Champion just running by me and feels like a tank because Warrior can't do jack squat for damage. This build uses berserker amulet too.

    Went from Warriors KING OF CLEAVE. KING OF DPS. Most wanted for CItadel of Flame runs.
    You just want to stand there? Okay here comes the DPS. (now 100blades EPIC Guild Wars ability... doesn't even do squat worth talkin about)
    To Warrior can't even do jack squat.
    Squishy necro feels like a tank PLUS they ANNIHILATE Warriors with abilities. They don't even need to move, can't hurt em, and they DO BIG DAMAGE. (NOT EVEN IN LICH FORM).

    It used to be Necros run from Warriors to avoid cleave.
    Now its Warriors run from Necros, because even if they stand still... AINT going to kill em. Lich Form not necessary, too easy to even think about Lich Forming.

    So we need less builds that roll over players?
    Balance is when theres too many builds. There should be AT LEAST 3 builds where me as a Warrior. ESPECIALLY BERSERKER should be rolling over players like they aint nothing.

    Instead, BERSERKER is a joke.
    Warriors are a JOKE.
    Warriors NEED. Not wanted. Not an option.
    THEY NEED A BUFF

  • wevh.2903wevh.2903 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    You'll know they found the right balance when every profession is on Metabattle as a Meta build.
    Right now, no version of Warrior is Meta.
    Right now, no version of Warrior is Great.

    Metabattle is quite an unreliable source on what is good and bad

    What are the reliable sources then? Do they have Warrior in Meta or Great?
    Does it include Berserker?
    Does it include core Warrior?

    Warrior is in a bad state right now, but using metabattle as a reference doesnt work because it'd unreliable and doesnt reflect the meta.

    I would say support shout warrior is nearly a very decent state tbh

  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    @wevh.2903 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    You'll know they found the right balance when every profession is on Metabattle as a Meta build.
    Right now, no version of Warrior is Meta.
    Right now, no version of Warrior is Great.

    Metabattle is quite an unreliable source on what is good and bad

    What are the reliable sources then? Do they have Warrior in Meta or Great?
    Does it include Berserker?
    Does it include core Warrior?

    Warrior is in a bad state right now, but using metabattle as a reference doesnt work because it'd unreliable and doesnt reflect the meta.

    I would say support shout warrior is nearly a very decent state tbh

    That's true, it's not to bad and might actually be better for soloQing than the other support builds. In tournaments it gets outvalued by tempest to much tho

  • Raizel.1839Raizel.1839 Member ✭✭✭

    @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

    Let me translate it for the rest of you guys:
    Warrior, Berserker, Spellbreaker doesn't smash enemy 100-0 when I smash keyboard with face. Warrior bad. Warrior unplayable. Pls buff. Me don't want think, me want smash. Smash is good. Good balance weak, smash face on keyboard stronk.

    No need to thank me.

    I like Hulk class.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2020

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:
    There should be a core build where if someone just stands and doesn't even move the Warrior should 100b that mofo down like he wasn't nothing.

    Warrior has the best stun lock capability in the game and stun + burst skill is possible frequently (that's even the freaking class mechanic!). ANet knows exactly why what you described is not possible. It would be the next big broken thing.

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:
    Squishy classes shouldn't be standing and eating melee, but in GW2 squishy class like Necro is a great tank for Warriors. Lich form NOT NECESSARY when its a warrior

    What a nonsense. Core necro is designed to be a tank, because it is slow and hits like a wet noodle with a 150s cooldown noob filter elite skill. And for reaper all you need to do is kiting it for a few seconds and his shroud is completely degenerated or he drops it by himself which does also make him vulnerable. The meta build doesn't even use speed rune.

    The players that have issues fighting core necro are players with training wheel builds with a bad damage sustain ratio and the players that have issues fighting reapers are players that are too greedy to just move away from shroud for 5 or more seconds not wasting any cooldown besides the disengage or a cc. It's incredible how many players can't just move away for some time and will simply facetank shroud right from the beginning or come back after 3 seconds and then start to facetank. I dont get this.

    Esp. for a warrior kiting a reaper is the easiest thing in the world. Half of your skills are mobility skills that even remove soft cc (traited). And your shield block has about the same cooldown as soul spiral. You can completely negate every single soul spiral.

  • Strength spellbreaker is still in a fine spot. It's not great, but it's serviceable. My main gripe with war vs other classes is that war's skill animations are so much slower and obvious than almost all other classes. Warrior could have baseline quickness animations and it would still be easier to dodge the big hitting skills than it would against mesmer, rev, holo, etc. This is one of the reasons IMO that warrior is traditionally pretty good at the release of new expansions or other large skill balance changes. At that point in time, people get hit by things that they will reliably dodge in the future.

  • uberkingkong.8041uberkingkong.8041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2020

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:
    There should be a core build where if someone just stands and doesn't even move the Warrior should 100b that mofo down like he wasn't nothing.

    Warrior has the best stun lock capability in the game and stun + burst skill is possible frequently (that's even the freaking class mechanic!). ANet knows exactly why what you described is not possible. It would be the next big broken thing.

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:
    Squishy classes shouldn't be standing and eating melee, but in GW2 squishy class like Necro is a great tank for Warriors. Lich form NOT NECESSARY when its a warrior

    What a nonsense. Core necro is designed to be a tank, because it is slow and hits like a wet noodle with a 150s cooldown noob filter elite skill. And for reaper all you need to do is kiting it for a few seconds and his shroud is completely degenerated or he drops it by himself which does also make him vulnerable. The meta build doesn't even use speed rune.

    The players that have issues fighting core necro are players with training wheel builds with a bad damage sustain ratio and the players that have issues fighting reapers are players that are too greedy to just move away from shroud for 5 or more seconds not wasting any cooldown besides the disengage or a cc. It's incredible how many players can't just move away for some time and will simply facetank shroud right from the beginning or come back after 3 seconds and then start to facetank. I dont get this.

    Esp. for a warrior kiting a reaper is the easiest thing in the world. Half of your skills are mobility skills that even remove soft cc (traited). And your shield block has about the same cooldown as soul spiral. You can completely negate every single soul spiral.

    Easier said then done.
    Berserker has a lot of CC?? They sure can't destroy anyone who doesn't bother to move at all because they know your class needs a buff and they win easily just blow for blow right in the Berserker's face.

    The CC stuns on necro?
    Easier said then done.

    Thats like saying ele is best dps for raids because they do 47k+ dps on training dummy.
    Then when they get to an actual boss. WHOLE different story.

    You talking about CCing like you easily telegraph everything your opponent does. "oh you just cc it and you win"
    Yeah okay. You get in pvp. WHOLE different story.
    "This guy wont use that skill, HE KNOWS I'm waiting to counter it, HE KNOWS if he uses everything else I'll eat it and die"
    "Oh you just counter that skill and easy win for Warrior they say"
    YEP, WRONG

    In Stronghold.
    Mist Champions vs Warrior. Why is this guy not going down. He doesn't attack you, you need DPS, CCIng him does nothing. Counter? They aint even attacking you.
    Warrior USELESS in Conquest. EVEN MORE USELESS in Stronghold.
    Everyone else "I kill Mist Champions fine" Warrior "This Mist Champ has got some serious health, I aint doing squat to him and no more skills to press"

  • I think the warrior is in a decent spot. I just think there is WAY to much aoe going on for them to be effective.

  • @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    You'll know they found the right balance when every profession is on Metabattle as a Meta build.
    Right now, no version of Warrior is Meta.
    Right now, no version of Warrior is Great.

    Metabattle is quite an unreliable source on what is good and bad

    What are the reliable sources then? Do they have Warrior in Meta or Great?
    Does it include Berserker?
    Does it include core Warrior?

    Warrior is in a bad state right now, but using metabattle as a reference doesnt work because it'd unreliable and doesnt reflect the meta.

    What is unreliable about Metabattle? Are the builds they post a joke? Are the feedbacks a joke?

    What are some reliable PvP or WvW sources for GW2 builds then?

    The problem with metabattle is that it's a very clunky site for content creation which results in it being extremely slow to pick up on things that have been well known in Plat+ games sometimes for months. Sometimes metabattle up to snuff until a new balance patch comes out and so the Conquest builds end up being horrendously outdated.

    For instance, Renegade bow is actually a well known roamer right now, but metabattle still has it listed as "test" ( Wrong, it's already being used in ATs ) and the build they have for it has multiple inaccuracies.

  • @bringlotsofweed.2086 said:
    I think the warrior is in a decent spot. I just think there is WAY to much aoe going on for them to be effective.

    Do you play Warrior?
    Can't say they in decent spot if all you do is play other professions and KNOW for a fact you going to rekt any Warrior that gets in your way.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2020

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @bringlotsofweed.2086 said:
    I think the warrior is in a decent spot. I just think there is WAY to much aoe going on for them to be effective.

    Do you play Warrior?
    Can't say they in decent spot if all you do is play other professions and KNOW for a fact you going to rekt any Warrior that gets in your way.

    Just because the other professions are way too over-tuned, doesn't make Warrior any less decent.
    Warrior doesn't need buffs, the others need to get shaved.

  • uberkingkong.8041uberkingkong.8041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @bringlotsofweed.2086 said:
    I think the warrior is in a decent spot. I just think there is WAY to much aoe going on for them to be effective.

    Do you play Warrior?
    Can't say they in decent spot if all you do is play other professions and KNOW for a fact you going to rekt any Warrior that gets in your way.

    Just because the other professions are way too over-tuned, doesn't make Warrior any less decent.
    Warrior doesn't need buffs, the others need to get shaved.

    Over tuned?
    More like Warrior is under tuned, and Warriors need a buff.

    You try killing a Mist Champion as a spellbreaker, the best version of Warrior right now? Unfortunately the best version isn't meta, and isn't great. Hence why it takes a Spellbreaker forever to kill what to them feels like a TANKY mist champ. But everyone else "Mist champs are squishy"

    Yeah ok, your logic, others are overtuned but the lone profession, the warrior is decent.
    Only because you can kill em and you dont want to struggle against them unlike engineer, necro, guardian, ranger, every other profession but warriors.
    Make Warriors GREAT AGAIN.

    "yeah they decent, no need to buff, they have a 'good' build on metabattle, so they decent" "ya ya just because every other class is great/meta cough I mean overtuned doesn't mean warrior is not bad cough I mean decent.

    Decent in this game?
    Fractals and Raids. Fractals "use the mist potions I dont care if you don't need em and decent, we want great or meta, so use the potions or you get kicked"

    Decent???
    We talking decent????

    I want to see Warriors. GREAT AGAIN
    Anet needs to BUFF the JEEBERS outta warriors. They decent, people talkin decent.
    You look at Necros, you look at engineer, guardian, rangers, etc. They taking advantage over warriors, they are doing GREAT.
    BUFF WARRIORS
    Make em GREAT again.

    You see this?

    You stand still and fighting a warrior. You die. Noobs haven't learned lesson in video, they die fast.
    Warriors back then, one trick pony (get in face and SMASH) (counter by not stand still and dodge bullrush)
    Warriors today, no tricks. (counter warrior by smashing every ability you have, if you have enough META/GREAT abilities, you can stand still too)

    Today, stand still, NOT EVEN TRY, you OWN warriors because they decent AND OTHERS ARE GREAT.
    Has nothing to do with scourge doing secret move, core necro doing secret move. They spam every ability (no need to try hard and do the secret combo killer) and woop a warrior trying too hard.

    ..
    And you got that one dude saying "just time and wait for them to do that one move and then you start stunning".... yeah only if the others abilities they have were DECENT... that one move you stun.... Thats a META move. The other moves they are GREAT.
    GREAT trumps DECENT anyday.
    "stun heck outta em... meanwhile Mist Champ, feels like a tank, they don't attack you so you can stun the heck outta em.... Decent warrior not so decent anymore now are they"
    One trick pony decent warrior can't do its trick, no more decent they are. worse than decent they are now.
    ...
    ..
    Meanwhile one trick META necro.. can't do its trick? No more META they are... Great they are now...
    Great beats Decent anyday.

    "no buffs warrior they decent"
    "nerf meta necro, oh hes great now, still beats decent"
    All these other professions are meta/great but warrior. they good shape, decent.

    Necro you can play 3 ways, Scourge, core and Reaper (GREAT GREAT GREAT AND META.
    Warrior only spellbreaker is decent, berserker and core, not playable (DECENT, UNPLAYABLE, UNPLAYABLE).

    But you know, warrior is decent they say, and no buff them they say.
    Dude says "balance around pros... no pros playing berserker no pros playing core... reaper, core necro and scourge sure they play sometimes"
    Dude says "balance around avg joes, the avg joes will be using meta battle (pros says meta battle sucks and use soemthing else, well, thats why these guys are avg joes they use metabattle), no berserker, no core.... scourge, reaper, and core necro YES YES YES.

    Warriors are decent, no need a buff they say.
    Balance around pros they say
    Balance around average joes they say

    All the ways you look at it. Warriors remain decent.
    Decent better than GREAT? NO
    Decent better than META? NO

    Strat for playing with warriors back then, get all the enemies together and let the WARRIOR GO HAM.
    HO HO HO you can't move, in my face.... ONE HUNDRED BLADE OWNAGE TIME. Enemies "holy kitten I ate the entire 100 blades I have no health left"
    Strat for playing with warriors today, cross fingers because they not great, meta... NO PERKS. They decent.
    eats a 100 blades like it didn't do squat to him. (today, classic Guild Wars skill... turned into a joke) "give me a couple more 100blades please, I'll eat all of it too"

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @bringlotsofweed.2086 said:
    I think the warrior is in a decent spot. I just think there is WAY to much aoe going on for them to be effective.

    Do you play Warrior?
    Can't say they in decent spot if all you do is play other professions and KNOW for a fact you going to rekt any Warrior that gets in your way.

    Just because the other professions are way too over-tuned, doesn't make Warrior any less decent.
    Warrior doesn't need buffs, the others need to get shaved.

    No sense talking to someone like him. Either he's hard trolling or he's that delirious.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • uberkingkong.8041uberkingkong.8041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2020

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @bringlotsofweed.2086 said:
    I think the warrior is in a decent spot. I just think there is WAY to much aoe going on for them to be effective.

    Do you play Warrior?
    Can't say they in decent spot if all you do is play other professions and KNOW for a fact you going to rekt any Warrior that gets in your way.

    Just because the other professions are way too over-tuned, doesn't make Warrior any less decent.
    Warrior doesn't need buffs, the others need to get shaved.

    No sense talking to someone like him. Either he's hard trolling or he's that delirious.

    Yeah, he says others. Which he could have said everyone but warrior.
    What makes you think everyone but warrior is overtuned?

    Look at it glass half full or nearly full instead of glass half empty or nearly empty.
    All you do is BUFF warriors and NOW BALANCED.
    SIMPLE
    Why adjust 90% when all that is needed is 10% to be adjusted???

    "yeah the other classes (AKA ALL BUT WARRIOR) not balanced, warrior tho, its decent"
    yeah ok.
    Warrior doesn't FIT ALL the others, it aint balance.
    It doesnt fit them because the others are overtuned you say?
    BUFF THE WARRIOR THEN.
    "nah we want to nerf all the other professions" "we like negative thinking"
    Why nerf EVERY SINGLE ONE BUT WARRIOR, so much work, so much to change for balance. When all you had to do was....
    Make WARRIOR GREAT AGAIN by buffing the heck outta them.

    This is what Warrior should be like

    You want to fight on node with Warrior? You want to fight warrior head on? Ok your death.
    You want to shoot warrior and kill him from range? Oh wow, warrior death. Thats balance.
    You fight from distance YOU BEAT warrior. You fight from melee YOU LOSE to warrior. THATS BALANCE.
    ANY Version of Necro today I'd own ANY VERSION warrior regardless if he wants to fight from distance or in my face. THIS IS NOT BALANCE.
    Make WARRIORS GREAT AGAIN

    Yall so negative, NERF NERF NERF.
    No bro.
    BUFF

    Negative negative negative. Think positive. Quit complaining about negatives, so many negatives. Just buff one and all complaining goes away.
    NERF aint always the answer.
    Sometimes...
    BUFF

    ..
    ..
    Meanwhile in PvE, Dev "hey we made fractals a bit tougher since everyone does more dps"
    NERFS incoming to all but warrior because people think NERFS will bring balance.
    "fractals so hard now, please tune down"
    "say what? people said all but warrior was overtuned, hrmmmmm.... now I must do even more work, tuning 90% for balance took a lot outta me, now I gotta tune all these fractals too"
    "I should have listened to the dude saying BUFF not NERF"

    In PvP
    "wow now I see why that guy asked if Mist Champs are too tanky, didn't realize warriors don't do squat to them, and now the ALL BUT WARRIORS are on par with warrior, now we all see why these mist champs are too tanky"
    "should have just BUFFED the warrior, now you gotta make MIST CHAMPS LESS TANKY because you listened to NERFS not BUFF"

    You have 90% and you want to say its overtuned?
    No bro,
    10% is UNDERTUNED.

    The secret to balance is listening to the right people. Go ahead and nerf 'others' like the wrong people suggest.
    Game is already built around 'others' "overtuned"
    You want to NERF 'others' because they "overtuned"? What about the game "overtuned", oooh now you gotta nerf all that as well.
    You want to balance by fixing 90% rather than fixing 10%. Ohhhhh ok I see how you balance things.
    Oh wow now the PvE things are overtuned you nerfed 'overtuned'
    All you had to BUFF warrior to bring balance into the 'others' "overtuned 'PvE aspect overtuned'

    Look at Fractals, they the same as when they was when it was just core? Nope, its 'overtuned' now.
    Just buff the warrior, make the correct decision.

    Good greif these 'others' are so "overtuned"
    NERF em, it will look good in patch notes.

    Patch notes makes games #esports, the longer they are, the more #esports they become.
    It has nothing to do with... game just being good and no patch notes even needed.

    "gotta show the boss I'm working hard, I'm going to nerf because I get more patch notes outta nerfing than just buffing the warrior and putting an END to balance"
    "I gotta make anet feel like they will always need me, I can't be like Diablo2, they dont even do balance patches anymore, 3 years into the game they didnt do a single balance patch"
    "I gotta feel always needed, make sure game is never balance, can't listen to this smart guy saying buff warrior, he's just too true"
    "these necros going around like gods, all because the class thats suppose to keep em in check warriors are decent"
    "I hate people showing that 5 warriors ownage video because it just goes to SHOW a BALANCED WARRIOR TO NECRO. WARRIOR IS SUPPOSE TO TURN THAT NECRO INTO SARDINES.

    ...
    ..
    Oh you arent suppose to stand in front of a necro, they eat you alive.
    Well if Warriors were BUFFED, OTHER WAY AROUND, that necro knows better than to go face to face with a WARRIOR.
    THATS THE PROFESSION THAT OWNS THEM. AND THEY ARE BALANCED NOW.

    Shroud is very juicy and full of health, aint nobody good at cleaving melee.
    Oh here we go warrior is balanced, they DESIGNED to cleave in peoples face.

    That juicy shroud, gone in seconds, because warrior ate it all. You still want to stand in front of him like you do to everyone else?

  • @uberkingkong.8041 said:
    hitman 2.0

    No.
    Spellbreaker is defensive/support(if removal of boons is support KEK) spec, so it shouldn't deal much damage.
    Berserker is dmg spec, which still some skills need shaves(range of GS F1, daze on Rifle F1 need to be removed).
    Warrior finally require brain to use and proper timing, no more random kitten like bullscharge hitting for over 6k even though you "evaded" it(rush need kitten fixing though with this bs). The class itself still does randomly pops like 6k+ crits from skills beside F1.
    It was self-carry class since 2012 which was hitting like a truck while still being tanky af thanks to traits/skills.
    The valid complain you can only make is: Warrior doesn't have proper "role", since Spellbreaker is "defensive/support(KEKW)" and Core competes with Berserker for "dps" role.
    Also, if you want to deal dmg, try investing traits/skills/gear to get it, stop thinking that going full Menders and defensive traits should allow you to deal 10k+ dmg for pressing whatever button.
    Also no.2 stop comparing Warrior to Necromancer.
    Necromancer posses 2 true elite specializations which actually C H A N G E how you play it, on the other hand you have Warrior with specializations, which are Warrior+ and Warrior+moredef, they don't change a kitten how you play war in the slightest.
    What you need is "defined role for Core, Berserker, Spellbreaker", not buffs. Additional points for nerfing broken classes.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    You'll know they found the right balance when every profession is on Metabattle as a Meta build.
    Right now, no version of Warrior is Meta.
    Right now, no version of Warrior is Great.

    Metabattle is quite an unreliable source on what is good and bad

    What are the reliable sources then? Do they have Warrior in Meta or Great?
    Does it include Berserker?
    Does it include core Warrior?

    Warrior is in a bad state right now, but using metabattle as a reference doesnt work because it'd unreliable and doesnt reflect the meta.

    What is unreliable about Metabattle? Are the builds they post a joke? Are the feedbacks a joke?

    What are some reliable PvP or WvW sources for GW2 builds then?

    The problem with metabattle is that it's a very clunky site for content creation which results in it being extremely slow to pick up on things that have been well known in Plat+ games sometimes for months. Sometimes metabattle up to snuff until a new balance patch comes out and so the Conquest builds end up being horrendously outdated.

    For instance, Renegade bow is actually a well known roamer right now, but metabattle still has it listed as "test" ( Wrong, it's already being used in ATs ) and the build they have for it has multiple inaccuracies.

    I've made that template, had it up and ready since the shortbow changes. The moment I started seeing enough people using shortbow, I put it to test.

    While you claim that it has innaccuracies, as it is. This is the modest survivability and highest DPS possible without making ridiculous trade offs that makes gameplay extremely passive.

    SR is horrible in it's effective time compared ViS (even with RR and RR should only be used if conditions are heavy, so optional), finally why would anyone used Charged Mists to be damage in PvP, Revenant is predictable enough.

    Constantly relying on upkeep makes for an extremely linear experience that limits options and the benefits of healing overtime does not beat doubling the health pool for 5 seconds that can effectively be paired 2k barrier on average which makes up to be 4k with the 50% bonus.

    SotM is the great, provides better rewards instantly rather than having to use any skills that could be interrupted.

    All of this is not even considering all the weakness that will be tossed around as well.

    It's fine as it is for what it's meant to do. Variants can be added later, Vindication seems like a bad pick but the ramp up is easy with Brutal Momentum at 20 Might being the average.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @bringlotsofweed.2086 said:
    I think the warrior is in a decent spot. I just think there is WAY to much aoe going on for them to be effective.

    Do you play Warrior?
    Can't say they in decent spot if all you do is play other professions and KNOW for a fact you going to rekt any Warrior that gets in your way.

    I do play warrior, I am relatively new to the game but I have no problem putting up a good fight, however, the only thing that really hinders me insanely hard is the crazy amount of aoe with the constant conditions they apply.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bringlotsofweed.2086 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @bringlotsofweed.2086 said:
    I think the warrior is in a decent spot. I just think there is WAY to much aoe going on for them to be effective.

    Do you play Warrior?
    Can't say they in decent spot if all you do is play other professions and KNOW for a fact you going to rekt any Warrior that gets in your way.

    I do play warrior, I am relatively new to the game but I have no problem putting up a good fight, however, the only thing that really hinders me insanely hard is the crazy amount of aoe with the constant conditions they apply.

    If you're core, give Cleansing Ire a try with Berserker Stance to compensate whenever a blind comes in play. I use Hammer burst to pretty much easily clear in an AoE myself which sets down for more damaging opportunities if well managed because Fierce Blow cooldown is extremely low and other CC's can be used for an easy Axe burst.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • @Shao.7236 said:

    @bringlotsofweed.2086 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @bringlotsofweed.2086 said:
    I think the warrior is in a decent spot. I just think there is WAY to much aoe going on for them to be effective.

    Do you play Warrior?
    Can't say they in decent spot if all you do is play other professions and KNOW for a fact you going to rekt any Warrior that gets in your way.

    I do play warrior, I am relatively new to the game but I have no problem putting up a good fight, however, the only thing that really hinders me insanely hard is the crazy amount of aoe with the constant conditions they apply.

    If you're core, give Cleansing Ire a try with Berserker Stance to compensate whenever a blind comes in play. I use Hammer burst to pretty much easily clear in an AoE myself which sets down for more damaging opportunities if well managed because Fierce Blow cooldown is extremely low and other CC's can be used for an easy Axe burst.

    thanks i might try this!

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Warrior is fine. Stop using 5 stuns in your skill bar and you will do damage.
    Burst skills still do around 13k damage which is almost three times the hard hitting skills from other classes. Weapons do above average damage.

    Stuns (and most importantly long stuns) should do 0 damage. It is not fun to fight against somebody who keeps stunning you while eating your health bar.

    When Anet said some CC skills should do some damage sure they meant skills like path of scars, the pulls is in the second hit still the damage is nerfed for both hits.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:

    You'll know they found the right balance when every profession is on Metabattle as a Meta build.
    Right now, no version of Warrior is Meta.
    Right now, no version of Warrior is Great.

    Metabattle is quite an unreliable source on what is good and bad

    What are the reliable sources then? Do they have Warrior in Meta or Great?
    Does it include Berserker?
    Does it include core Warrior?

    Warrior is in a bad state right now, but using metabattle as a reference doesnt work because it'd unreliable and doesnt reflect the meta.

    What is unreliable about Metabattle? Are the builds they post a joke? Are the feedbacks a joke?

    What are some reliable PvP or WvW sources for GW2 builds then?

    The problem with metabattle is that it's a very clunky site for content creation which results in it being extremely slow to pick up on things that have been well known in Plat+ games sometimes for months. Sometimes metabattle up to snuff until a new balance patch comes out and so the Conquest builds end up being horrendously outdated.

    For instance, Renegade bow is actually a well known roamer right now, but metabattle still has it listed as "test" ( Wrong, it's already being used in ATs ) and the build they have for it has multiple inaccuracies.

    The problem with meta battle is that the owner of it intentionally denies builds based on personal bias.