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Why this meta is not fun

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  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    1 balance is gbage
    2 balance change are far to infrequent
    3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.
    The pvp is a utter mess.
    The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

    I'd say #3 is the most important part.

    Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

    Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

    Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

    Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

    Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

    Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

    I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

    Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

    Warrior no longer feels like a warrior class, thief burst lower than ANY rogue like I've played in any of the 7 or so mmos I've played, sure thief plays like the other rogue likes yet its dps is weak as ...... compared to them. I donno guards have fb for thee support role and core guard is very effective as a warrior mage,mage as in deals with holly fire that is. Guards are meta in ALL modes or usually is and is by far thee most versitile class next to holo and core ranger. On fb needs some love in few areas. The games a mess non the less.

    Yeah, thief does burst lower than other MMOs I've played. Of course, in those MMOs it wasn't able to disengage endlessly or run literal circles around every other class. So there's that.

    Stealth is generally VERY LIMITED in combat(talking 3-5m cooldowns) and breaks when being hit/taking damage in other MMORPG's, too.

    I literally hold nodes for 30+ seconds spamming dodges and I'm not even s/d, if I was s/d I could legit sit there dodge tanking the node for nearly a minute, lol. That just shows the sheer amount of evades(too many) that thief currently has.

    Again neither of that is remotely true in the other BIG 2 mmo's lol, u even play em? Takes secs to be outa combat in wow to really permanently stealth and eso u really at will, both unless u have dots on u.

    ESO isn't a MMORPG so no I will never play a game with combat that bad by a horrible company that deserves no ones money. WoW stealth can be seen if they get near you(less now, was more apparent back in vanilla but now stealth is utterly broken in WoW too but still long cd to stealth in combat unlike GW2 which is 0 cd in combat stealth).

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    I'd say #3 is the most important part.

    Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

    Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

    Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

    Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

    Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

    Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

    I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

    Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

    Agree on most, but druid is supposed to be "support" not "condi bruiser", just because it have some toxic traits(ancient seed), doesn't make it automatically a condi bruiser, given most of it's kit being focused on "healing/supporting allies".
    Guardian is supposed to be... guardian, protector, defender for your allies, not "holy warrior".
    Most classes if not all don't have "specified" roles, especially core classes, what are they supposed to be?
    A-net needs to clearly state what xyz class/specialization is supposed to be and then follow it.

    I know that, I just said that in the current design it's literally a condi bruiser because that's all it's good at.
    A lot of elites, mainly healers, are horribly designed. Scourge is bad at both healing and DPS in every game mode(I don't count carrying people through strikes with barriers so you can ignore mechanics while you provide 0 offensive power support). Tempest is useless as a healer in PvE, useless as a DPS in PvP, etc.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    In this game that doesn't apply, broken builds are just broken, when skilled players grab those builds they ruin pvp for everyone who reaches past gold 2 from gold 2 to silver 1 all players just copy paste those builds and somehow climb, and the only players who play this game for fun and for choices, are stuck below silver 1 with meme builds they create, summit1g exposed this by trying the game a few weeks ago, the first 20 matches he had a great time, as soon as he was stuck in a match with somewhat decent players using those stupid builds it was all over for him, he left so fast anet couldn't even reach the patron stuff for him. And not because he was beeing mauled by more skilled players, he left because he quickly realized he had no future in this game because he wouldn't enjoy playing those annoying aoe builds.

    Eh. I doubt, with his mindset and approach, summit would have stuck around even in a different meta. I just don't think he likes the genre in general, and GW2 in particular (which is perfectly fine, they're not for everyone). His complaints amounted to "why can't my halfassedly built rifle warrior contest points?!?!", which is like someone who brings their rusted out station wagon to a drag race and complains that they can't win. If he cared at all about doing GW2 pvp, he'd at least learn a better warrior build, or figure out some other way to handle the aoes. I, for one, found it highly embarrassing how hyped the community got about some streamer who really doesn't care for our type of game. It was pretty obvious he wasn't going to stick around, at least to me.

    As for the aoe meta, I'm not a fan myself, but that's also why I only do unranked. There are still plenty of circles there, but at least it's less dominated by the same small number of builds.

    Dude, why? What steers gw2 players to keep making excuses to defend this game? It's so hard to accept our beloved game is trashed?
    1. If summit doesn't like mmorpg, why is he trying out absolutely every one out there? And why is he still actively playing Elder scrolls online on off stream hours? And even pvping there?

    Because he's a variety streamer, who -I guess- pretty much never played mmorpgs? So he's curious and tries out one after another and quits all of them within 1-2 weeks when the absolutely initial novelty of them passes?

    Also if you literally google summit eso, you get his twit from 2nd Aug "All I know is it causes a rage that I can't have anymore lol.", I'm sure he enjoys playing it offstream.

    We have to face it, the game forces you to make a choice, die in silver playing what you enjoy, or join the freaking braindead train grab a meta bunk spammer build and hit your keyboard with your face as hard as you can every single match while staying on a node basically botting...

    wow, the first online game with meta builds and comps. Some things are more optimal than other in a comepetitive environment, what a surprise! :o

    Seriously, not sure what point you were trying to make by writing this.

  • alot of specs were created with wvw in mind. Soulbeast allows for ranger to play frontline damage for example. Thats partly why pvp is so aoe heavy now

  • kraai.7265kraai.7265 Member ✭✭✭

    @Koensol.5860 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    In this game that doesn't apply, broken builds are just broken, when skilled players grab those builds they ruin pvp for everyone who reaches past gold 2 from gold 2 to silver 1 all players just copy paste those builds and somehow climb, and the only players who play this game for fun and for choices, are stuck below silver 1 with meme builds they create, summit1g exposed this by trying the game a few weeks ago, the first 20 matches he had a great time, as soon as he was stuck in a match with somewhat decent players using those stupid builds it was all over for him, he left so fast anet couldn't even reach the patron stuff for him. And not because he was beeing mauled by more skilled players, he left because he quickly realized he had no future in this game because he wouldn't enjoy playing those annoying aoe builds.

    Eh. I doubt, with his mindset and approach, summit would have stuck around even in a different meta. I just don't think he likes the genre in general, and GW2 in particular (which is perfectly fine, they're not for everyone). His complaints amounted to "why can't my halfassedly built rifle warrior contest points?!?!", which is like someone who brings their rusted out station wagon to a drag race and complains that they can't win. If he cared at all about doing GW2 pvp, he'd at least learn a better warrior build, or figure out some other way to handle the aoes. I, for one, found it highly embarrassing how hyped the community got about some streamer who really doesn't care for our type of game. It was pretty obvious he wasn't going to stick around, at least to me.

    As for the aoe meta, I'm not a fan myself, but that's also why I only do unranked. There are still plenty of circles there, but at least it's less dominated by the same small number of builds.

    Dude, why? What steers gw2 players to keep making excuses to defend this game? It's so hard to accept our beloved game is trashed?
    1. If summit doesn't like mmorpg, why is he trying out absolutely every one out there? And why is he still actively playing Elder scrolls online on off stream hours? And even pvping there?
    2. Yes at first he was playing a meme roleplay build, and just having fun, that brief time playing on low tier motivated him to activate expansions, claim spellbreaker builds, and try to get as close as meta as possible without quiting the class he enjoyed to just join the braindead aoe spam meta train. He even watched the hole teapot video about combat basics on stream to learn what he was doing wrong.
    3. As soon as he fought silver or gold players using those stupid builds he quitted the game, before that he was having a blast, and he actually stated that all the passive interactions between aoe's, unfair or cheesy passives, break out of jail unnecessary skills (holo's specially) and the fact that everyone he met was using either a perma stealth build or an inmortal bunker build forced him to quit the game.

    And I know that not only because he said it himself (he was even starting to doubt about quitting ESO to play gw2)but because when he came back and I saw the low tier pvp matches, I was encouraged to go back and try out this "balance patch" everyone was talking about, the only difference is my character always landed in plat 2, so I couldn't even enjoy that unranked phase were people play just for fun.
    I got in, played like no more than 5 matches, encountered nothing more than perma stealth thieves, condi spammers, bunker spammers, went to wvw, every one using the most cheesy stupid risk free build, the ones that let you just run away every single time you kitten up something, and uninstalled again.

    We have to face it, the game forces you to make a choice, die in silver playing what you enjoy, or join the freaking braindead train grab a meta bunk spammer build and hit your keyboard with your face as hard as you can every single match while staying on a node basically botting...

    EDIT1: well.. i was actually that bored, here watch this video, he litterally complains about endless aoes on the first 5 seconds...

    EDIT2: You said it yourself, if skill mattered then chaith would be able to kill you with a scrapper build, yet that's not the case, unless he runs holo meta build, ofc you need to know how to press buttons and move to still be effective on a meta build, but it would be insane to argue that today's meta builds are harder to master than the ones we got in last expansion or even core gw2, the skill cap is insanely lower, and on equal skill level builds define every single fight.

    Dude, summit is a total cringelord when it comes to providing criticism. I wouldn't take anything he says as valid. I came to gw2 from ESO (cuz trash game) and he QQ'ed that game as well, because he couldn't git gud and 1vx people like those of us who were playing the game for years. His last video was just whining, whining and more whining about the game, while he was running into 4v1 and complaining why he died so easily. Literally what he said: "untill someone tells me how it is possible this guy is doing massive damage while mitigating all my damage, I'm calling bs". It's just the typical forumtard/zergling mantra and shows his mentality of "If I can't do it, it is impossible". He is the kind of guy that asks for a youtubers build, and expects to be good within a week. Of course he doesn't, but blames almost every failure on the game in stead of looking at his own mistakes. He is also extremely presumptuous about game mechanics and disregards things that people tell him just because he thinks he knows better. He expects instant gratification and thats just not how mmo's usually work.

    Also, BIG LOL at the people calling gw2 trash. Do yourself a favor and visit ESO. You will come back here crying in a heartbeat, feeling stupid about what you said.

    I went to ESO after 5 years playing gw2. I came back a week ago just to try out the new balance changes, and couldn't last longer than a few hours in wvw with my friends, and 3 or 4 pvp matches, what they have done to this game is disastrous, it was the most unenjoyable experience i've had in all my years playing, and I feel even with the lag, and the few balance issues, ESO combat design, and classes/skills design overall is in a much better place than here in gw2, specially cyrdoiil, I feel they nailed it with that map, if they could only fix performance the game would be the best for open world pvpers. It's not that this game is trash, but if you compare each meta from core to here, this one is the worst, and brought back some of the worst build designs, and cheesy mechanics back, so most players just quit until a new balance patch comes up, which takes like 2 years for anet to do so..

  • kraai.7265kraai.7265 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    In this game that doesn't apply, broken builds are just broken, when skilled players grab those builds they ruin pvp for everyone who reaches past gold 2 from gold 2 to silver 1 all players just copy paste those builds and somehow climb, and the only players who play this game for fun and for choices, are stuck below silver 1 with meme builds they create, summit1g exposed this by trying the game a few weeks ago, the first 20 matches he had a great time, as soon as he was stuck in a match with somewhat decent players using those stupid builds it was all over for him, he left so fast anet couldn't even reach the patron stuff for him. And not because he was beeing mauled by more skilled players, he left because he quickly realized he had no future in this game because he wouldn't enjoy playing those annoying aoe builds.

    Eh. I doubt, with his mindset and approach, summit would have stuck around even in a different meta. I just don't think he likes the genre in general, and GW2 in particular (which is perfectly fine, they're not for everyone). His complaints amounted to "why can't my halfassedly built rifle warrior contest points?!?!", which is like someone who brings their rusted out station wagon to a drag race and complains that they can't win. If he cared at all about doing GW2 pvp, he'd at least learn a better warrior build, or figure out some other way to handle the aoes. I, for one, found it highly embarrassing how hyped the community got about some streamer who really doesn't care for our type of game. It was pretty obvious he wasn't going to stick around, at least to me.

    As for the aoe meta, I'm not a fan myself, but that's also why I only do unranked. There are still plenty of circles there, but at least it's less dominated by the same small number of builds.

    Dude, why? What steers gw2 players to keep making excuses to defend this game? It's so hard to accept our beloved game is trashed?
    1. If summit doesn't like mmorpg, why is he trying out absolutely every one out there? And why is he still actively playing Elder scrolls online on off stream hours? And even pvping there?

    Because he's a variety streamer, who -I guess- pretty much never played mmorpgs? So he's curious and tries out one after another and quits all of them within 1-2 weeks when the absolutely initial novelty of them passes?

    My point is clear, he enjoys mmorpgs other wise he wouldn't be playing some off stream, when nobody is paying him to play. So that invalidates your "variety streamer" point.

    Also if you literally google summit eso, you get his twit from 2nd Aug "All I know is it causes a rage that I can't have anymore lol.", I'm sure he enjoys playing it offstream.

    If you at least watch half an eso stream you will notice what makes him rage was not only not being succesfull in combat, but also the insane amount of gankers and stream snipers he had to put up with. Again, some streamer who doesn't enjoy a game, wouldn't play off stream hours and pvp ... there is no point in what you are claiming.

    We have to face it, the game forces you to make a choice, die in silver playing what you enjoy, or join the freaking braindead train grab a meta bunk spammer build and hit your keyboard with your face as hard as you can every single match while staying on a node basically botting...

    wow, the first online game with meta builds and comps. Some things are more optimal than other in a comepetitive environment, what a surprise! :o

    Seriously, not sure what point you were trying to make by writing this.

    Idk what is your point with that last sentence about games and meta builds comps, when what we are discussing is the quality of this game's current meta design, not the existance...
    Seriously, not sure what point you were trying to make by writing this.....

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    In this game that doesn't apply, broken builds are just broken, when skilled players grab those builds they ruin pvp for everyone who reaches past gold 2 from gold 2 to silver 1 all players just copy paste those builds and somehow climb, and the only players who play this game for fun and for choices, are stuck below silver 1 with meme builds they create, summit1g exposed this by trying the game a few weeks ago, the first 20 matches he had a great time, as soon as he was stuck in a match with somewhat decent players using those stupid builds it was all over for him, he left so fast anet couldn't even reach the patron stuff for him. And not because he was beeing mauled by more skilled players, he left because he quickly realized he had no future in this game because he wouldn't enjoy playing those annoying aoe builds.

    Eh. I doubt, with his mindset and approach, summit would have stuck around even in a different meta. I just don't think he likes the genre in general, and GW2 in particular (which is perfectly fine, they're not for everyone). His complaints amounted to "why can't my halfassedly built rifle warrior contest points?!?!", which is like someone who brings their rusted out station wagon to a drag race and complains that they can't win. If he cared at all about doing GW2 pvp, he'd at least learn a better warrior build, or figure out some other way to handle the aoes. I, for one, found it highly embarrassing how hyped the community got about some streamer who really doesn't care for our type of game. It was pretty obvious he wasn't going to stick around, at least to me.

    As for the aoe meta, I'm not a fan myself, but that's also why I only do unranked. There are still plenty of circles there, but at least it's less dominated by the same small number of builds.

    Dude, why? What steers gw2 players to keep making excuses to defend this game? It's so hard to accept our beloved game is trashed?
    1. If summit doesn't like mmorpg, why is he trying out absolutely every one out there? And why is he still actively playing Elder scrolls online on off stream hours? And even pvping there?

    Because he's a variety streamer, who -I guess- pretty much never played mmorpgs? So he's curious and tries out one after another and quits all of them within 1-2 weeks when the absolutely initial novelty of them passes?

    My point is clear, he enjoys mmorpgs other wise he wouldn't be playing some off stream, when nobody is paying him to play. So that invalidates your "variety streamer" point.

    No he doesn't. Your ""point"" was in a form of a question that was supposed to be a "gotcha" while your suggested answer to that very question is wrong. He doesn't "play mmorpgs", he got curious about them because as a variety streamer, he explores different genres too. The fact remains that he kept trying out various mmorpgs and keeps quitting all of them.
    And how do you know he's playing it offstream?

    Also if you literally google summit eso, you get his twit from 2nd Aug "All I know is it causes a rage that I can't have anymore lol.", I'm sure he enjoys playing it offstream.

    If you at least watch half an eso stream you will notice what makes him rage was not only not being succesfull in combat, but also the insane amount of gankers and stream snipers he had to put up with. Again, some streamer who doesn't enjoy a game, wouldn't play off stream hours and pvp ... there is no point in what you are claiming.

    I'm not even discussing why he quits mmorpgs, it's literally irrelevant to me. The fact remains that he does quit them all despite of your claims. He wrote he doesn't play it, so I assume he doesn't play it, easy.

    We have to face it, the game forces you to make a choice, die in silver playing what you enjoy, or join the freaking braindead train grab a meta bunk spammer build and hit your keyboard with your face as hard as you can every single match while staying on a node basically botting...

    wow, the first online game with meta builds and comps. Some things are more optimal than other in a comepetitive environment, what a surprise! :o

    Seriously, not sure what point you were trying to make by writing this.

    Idk what is your point with that last sentence about games and meta builds comps, when what we are discussing is the quality of this game's current meta design, not the existance...
    Seriously, not sure what point you were trying to make by writing this.....

    Your claim: "the game forces you to play how you want and possibly be stuck or play meta builds and get bored while grinding rank".
    My response: welcome to any even semi-competitive game ever, that's nothing new or out of ordinary. And a build being boring or unenjoyable is highly subjective. Glad I could explain my point, still waiting for explanation of yours.

  • It's fun when you don't care whether you win or lose. It's definitely not fun when playing ranked and you see your team 3v1 for straight 2 minutes on a far node. And when you hold a 1v3 for a minute, they do nothing.

  • its the game mode, i don't know why so many people will vehemently defend conquest when it so obviously fails with random teams instead of premades like it was originally made for

    Te lazla otstara.