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the grind for mounts needs to be toned down

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  • Nubarus.9268Nubarus.9268 Member ✭✭
    edited September 24, 2020

    @Gibson.4036 said:
    Seems to me that since the game is designed as a progression of story, ANet should be able to assume completion of all previous expansion story content in designing new maps. I'd leave out Living Story/World because those are presented as something you get if you are around, and an optional extra if you weren't during their release window.

    That means ANet should be able to assume gliding, updraft, jumping mushrooms, raptor, canyon jumping, skimmer, ride the wind, springer, and high jump for future content. I'm not sure about jackal and shifting sands, because they seemed like they came across as optional extras when I ran through PoF.

    Why should ANet design around the assumption that players skipped all preivous content?

    Indeed, I run in game also into players complaining on end game maps they cannot keep up with the squads or commanders. You only have to take a look at them dressed up in fancy outfits and reskinned weapons to see that they boosted their toons to 80, skipped pretty much everything complaining their gear stats are kitten and that it's unfair they have to spend gems on extra content so they can fly too. How about not spending all those gems on skins and spend their resources on good gear and actually play the game as it is intended.

  • Any old Everquest players who find it hilarious to see GW2 mounts described as 'a grind in need of toning down?'😂 Is there even a mount in this game that takes more than a week to get?? The griffon took less than two days. The roller beetle took well under a week. And I don't recall the exact time on the skyscale. But I could have sworn it was also less than a week. All of this while working 75 hrs/week at my old job. What are we even talking about here??

  • @KAipurge.2147 said:
    I have been an avid Guild wars player since guild wars 1. Over time the mount unlocking in this game has become worse and worse to the point where even just unlocking the new mastery for one of the oldest mounts in the game has become a grind with the XP requirement. The world trek-ing the figure out where the clues lead was enough but tacking the extra XP requirement after all of that is just too much. I could understand if all the mounts were always of use but so many replace others making them useless that making such a grind for a mount that would be useless after another one releases that does its job better makes no sense to me. There are MMO players from Super grindy MMO's like WoW and BDO even saying that they would rather do crazy grindy things in those games than deal with the way guild wars 2 handles mount grinding.

    Are we talking achieves here or mastery XP? The mastery XP for the underwater skimmer, while alot, filled before I even took the time to earn the mastery points. Just do metas. Play PoF maps.

    And I know what people will say to this already. They will make the same tired excuses for why Anet decided to handle mount unlocks such as Griffon, Rollerbeetle, SKyscale, and even the new MASTERY(which isn't even a new mount)for the skimmer. I guarantee the next expansion will have a new mount that makes all those other listed ones that you spent all your time grinding for obsolete.

    I actually doubt it. I expect them to hand us an entirely new mastery altogether. The bases are pretty much covered by the existing mounts.

    and then there are those that have them saying that you don't need them whilst they fly away leaving you behind in map runs because the Original 4 mounts cant keep up with the newer ones thus the game tries to force you into participating in the long boring several day time gated rng based grind for the newer mounts.

    Most metas don't have you running around that much. So I'm failing to understand how you're left behind. Only in HP runs would this matter, and the only place I felt "left behind" when I hadn't earned the skyscale yet.

    I mean I sort of agree the skyscale was long and drawn out. The map currencies are really easy to earn with ice shards and some karma, but the other achieves are still kinda drawn out.

    With this MMO the sanest way to approach it is to do things you enjoy, interleaved with long-term goals. Straight up grinding a leggie would suck. So would grinding anything. But when you earn the mount or the leggy, it's that awesome and adds to the activities you enjoy. There's literally no rush on anything with how permanent the progression is.

  • Zychuu.7294Zychuu.7294 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 24, 2020

    I'm fine with currency grind, I think I can even be fine with time gates... but for some reason I got absolutely tilted and dropped Skyscale collections when I saw that I have to start with 50+ parts total of some annoying collections spread around the map in obnoxious locations, sometimes requiring borrowing Skyscale... which you will get dismounted from when picking it.

  • Why are all the new players in a hurry to try and get the Giffen and Skyscape mount? I guess because they're flying mounts, but here's the thing, you don't need them. Also, they meant to be legendary mounts that take time to unlock, so take your time. Just play and have fun; you'll unlock them in no time. No need to hurry because once you unlock everything that you wanted, you'll soon enough find that there isn't much left for you to do anyway.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2020

    @blade eyes.2034 said:
    Why are all the new players in a hurry to try and get the Giffen and Skyscape mount? I guess because they're flying mounts, but here's the thing, you don't need them. Also, they meant to be legendary mounts that take time to unlock, so take your time. Just play and have fun; you'll unlock them in no time. No need to hurry because once you unlock everything that you wanted, you'll soon enough find that there isn't much left for you to do anyway.

    Because as a new player I want to rush for the mounts that make it easy to skip most of the content so when I finish my personal story I can complain how the game is too easy and has no content to complete. :astonished:
    "GIEF GIEF GIEF! Awwwww there's nothing to do, the rewards totally suck, mimimimi"

    Hopefully anet knows better and doesn't even consider any changes based on the threads like this one.

  • OP, you'll never win this argument.
    The people who already have them will resent others being able to get them easier, and will make kitten sure to make that opinion known.

    ANet isn't interested in lowering the material costs, because they know that for players who have less time to play, often the resource grind will drive them to the gem store to bypass it.

    And more insidiously, ANet isn't interested in lowering the time it takes, as that may leave the player enough time to step away from GW2 and play something else, which is time they're not exposed to GW2's FOMO (fear of missing out).

  • And the 250 gold for the Griffon?
    I've come back recently after a very long absence, and the grind for mastery and mounts is horrible. I've done all but the Warclaw and Skyscale, and I've not even looked in to what I need to do for those.
    But no, don't go comparing GW2's grind to BDO; it's well known that Korean MMOs feature some of the worst grinds in gaming, so any other MMO will look favourable in comparison. I prefer to compare the grind in GW2 to say Ubisoft open-world games. Mechanically, they're almost identical, but Ubisoft open world games tend to have a lot more respect for players' time. And that's saying something, seeing as the average gamer is quite often put off of Ubisoft games because they're just too big.

    I get it Nubarus, you've put a lot of time in to this game, and it's probably the only one you really play at the moment. But you have to realise that you're the exception and not the rule, and that easing the grind a bit might end up benefitting you long term as more players would be more likely to stick around if they felt the game had more respect for their time.
    And more players means more people to play with, more people using the trading post and more people buying things from the gem store, allowing ANet to stay afloat and deliver more meaningful content instead of padding out what should be simple mount acquisition quests with pointless grind.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Looking back, mount collection wasn't all that fun. Even if I snuck onto the bunny ranch or the floating djinn castle, I couldn't collect the mount until I had a lv 3 mastery in the previous mount. Exploration turned into xp grind as I searched for events to level my masteries.

    Given how (in hindsight) a lot of the easier and visable masteries are locked behind jackal portal jumping, this wasn't a fun experience.

    Not sure how anyone elses experience compares.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 27, 2020

    @Mungrul.9358 said:
    OP, you'll never win this argument.

    True, but not for the reasons you're suggesting. More because of the fact that it's not some awful never ending "grind" combined with the fact that you simply don't need any of those mounts, so it's not anything urgent you need RIGHT NOW. Sure, you WANT them right now, but if you WANT them then play the content to get them. If you don't want to play it, then... don't. And deal with not having some mounts that aren't actually needed for anything.

    The people who already have them will resent others being able to get them easier, and will make kitten sure to make that opinion known.

    Nope, that's not the reason. That's your idea about the people that supposedly are all focused on your person and making your life miserable, which just isn't true at all. It's just not a "grind", play the game and you'll get them, that's all there is to it.

    ANet isn't interested in lowering the material costs, because they know that for players who have less time to play, often the resource grind will drive them to the gem store to bypass it.

    Doubt changing anything about the mounts at this point would bring any significant impact on the overal ingame economy. But putting that aside... yeah, Anet probably isn't interested in lowering the material costs, why should they be?

    And more insidiously, ANet isn't interested in lowering the time it takes, as that may leave the player enough time to step away from GW2 and play something else, which is time they're not exposed to GW2's FOMO (fear of missing out).

    Maybe. But then again if that was their main goal then they would probably introduce the usual mmo gear treadmil long time ago.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mungrul.9358 said:
    And the 250 gold for the Griffon?

    Which part of content is locked for you that you absolutely need/deserve the griffon at this very moment?

    I've come back recently after a very long absence, and the grind for mastery and mounts is horrible.

    It really isn't, you just play through the content, get xp from map-specific events including LS episodes, get mastery points from achievements and/or gather the ones scattered throughout the map and that's it.

    But no, don't go comparing GW2's grind to BDO; it's well known that Korean MMOs feature some of the worst grinds in gaming, so any other MMO will look favourable in comparison. I prefer to compare the grind in GW2 to say Ubisoft open-world games. Mechanically, they're almost identical, but Ubisoft open world games tend to have a lot more respect for players' time. And that's saying something, seeing as the average gamer is quite often put off of Ubisoft games because they're just too big.

    Which ones?

    I get it Nubarus, you've put a lot of time in to this game, and it's probably the only one you really play at the moment. But you have to realise that you're the exception and not the rule, and that easing the grind a bit might end up benefitting you long term as more players would be more likely to stick around if they felt the game had more respect for their time.

    Which post/parts of his posts are you answering to exactly here?
    Not much about this game is actually a "grind". And pretty sure your theory about "just giving players everything for free so they'll stick around" is just false. Why would they stick around? What will they aim for?

    instead of padding out what should be simple mount acquisition quests with pointless grind.

    It is pretty simple. Not much is "padded out" except for actual time gates, which literally don't let you "grind out everything at ones", so you don't have much of an incentive to even try that or feel like you should be doing it. And if playing through the game's content is "pointless" for you, then... don't do it.

  • @Westenev.5289 said:
    Looking back, mount collection wasn't all that fun. Even if I snuck onto the bunny ranch or the floating djinn castle, I couldn't collect the mount until I had a lv 3 mastery in the previous mount. Exploration turned into xp grind as I searched for events to level my masteries.

    Given how (in hindsight) a lot of the easier and visable masteries are locked behind jackal portal jumping, this wasn't a fun experience.

    Not sure how anyone elses experience compares.

    I had zero issues with it since you can obtain plenty of mastery points and xp comes anyway while you do story, events and explore the new maps. If you are in a Guild with a Guildhall with a Tavern upgrade you can obtain a 10% xp boost on all xp. You can also get an Ascended amulet with a 20% xp Enrichment on it so that is a 30% flat xp boost on all xp without that much effort.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nubarus.9268 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    Looking back, mount collection wasn't all that fun. Even if I snuck onto the bunny ranch or the floating djinn castle, I couldn't collect the mount until I had a lv 3 mastery in the previous mount. Exploration turned into xp grind as I searched for events to level my masteries.

    Given how (in hindsight) a lot of the easier and visable masteries are locked behind jackal portal jumping, this wasn't a fun experience.

    Not sure how anyone elses experience compares.

    I had zero issues with it since you can obtain plenty of mastery points and xp comes anyway while you do story, events and explore the new maps. If you are in a Guild with a Guildhall with a Tavern upgrade you can obtain a 10% xp boost on all xp. You can also get an Ascended amulet with a 20% xp Enrichment on it so that is a 30% flat xp boost on all xp without that much effort.

    I should note, my experience was back in 2017 when there were no guides or PoF living world episodes. The story practically stopped at the bunny ranch until you could find some exp and the few mastery points that weren't soft-locked by sand portals, "meta events", or impossibly high jumps.

    The fact I did it means it's doable, and it's probably much easier today with Lws4, but I didn't have a lot of fun doing the "mount grind" back then.

  • I'm fine with it. At least I have purpose to play.

    I don't seem to have much commitment to the game when everything perfectly upgraded.

  • Nubarus.9268Nubarus.9268 Member ✭✭
    edited September 28, 2020

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @Nubarus.9268 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    Looking back, mount collection wasn't all that fun. Even if I snuck onto the bunny ranch or the floating djinn castle, I couldn't collect the mount until I had a lv 3 mastery in the previous mount. Exploration turned into xp grind as I searched for events to level my masteries.

    Given how (in hindsight) a lot of the easier and visable masteries are locked behind jackal portal jumping, this wasn't a fun experience.

    Not sure how anyone elses experience compares.

    I had zero issues with it since you can obtain plenty of mastery points and xp comes anyway while you do story, events and explore the new maps. If you are in a Guild with a Guildhall with a Tavern upgrade you can obtain a 10% xp boost on all xp. You can also get an Ascended amulet with a 20% xp Enrichment on it so that is a 30% flat xp boost on all xp without that much effort.

    I should note, my experience was back in 2017 when there were no guides or PoF living world episodes. The story practically stopped at the bunny ranch until you could find some exp and the few mastery points that weren't soft-locked by sand portals, "meta events", or impossibly high jumps.

    The fact I did it means it's doable, and it's probably much easier today with Lws4, but I didn't have a lot of fun doing the "mount grind" back then.

    Seems a bit odd since you can obtain 4 easy to aquire mastery points in the Crystal Oasis and do the story up to the High Jump Ranch should have given you 6 mastery points straight up so I completely fail to see how you could not get a Raptor lvl 3 before arriving there. (Harbor, Chef, Roof top and the Memory Puzzle) There are also the Raptor treat collection to bring the total to 5 so it seems like you just rushed through the Crystal Oasis to get to the High Jump Ranch to me............ Btw, I did the whole PoF story at the time of release so I had no help from guides either. The only help I got was when I asked for some either in guild chat or map chat.

  • Mounts bring functionality game wide and locking it behind very specific type of content, that truly appeals only for some players is bad game design. I don't have any of the new mounts not because i don't need or want them, or they're expensive, but because i can't bring myself to do all the things i consider extremely tedious and boring in order to unlock them. Lock skins for them behind such content, but locking the mount itself is... bad.

  • @soultysugar.5764 said:
    Mounts bring functionality game wide and locking it behind very specific type of content, that truly appeals only for some players is bad game design. I don't have any of the new mounts not because i don't need or want them, or they're expensive, but because i can't bring myself to do all the things i consider extremely tedious and boring in order to unlock them. Lock skins for them behind such content, but locking the mount itself is... bad.

    The only thing you have to do is follow the story and explore the maps. Once you get to the ranch you do the heart and buy a saddle. With the 4 basic mounts you have enough functionality game wide. I didn't really find any of the Griffon, Rollerbeetle or Skyscale collections extremely tedious and boring. Maybe it's because I was not fixating on racing to the finish to get them but was simply doing the tasks in between the stories and mapping. But to each their own.

  • Kichwas.7152Kichwas.7152 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2020

    This last week I finally did the grinds for the beetle and the gryphon.

    Got both done in a single day each. Granted they were super-long play sessions. I'd say one took 4-6 hours and the other 8-10.

    • The only reasons it took this long was on the Beetle there's the one zone-meta event and I did it wrong the first 2 times and didn't get credit, and on the gryphon I did all the group events by joining an LFG group doing a world tour of bosses and they did the ones I needed last, after some 30 other bosses... but because I was getting so much loot and other collections filled up I just shrugged and went with it.

    I don't think either was obsessively long. Seemed pretty tame once I actually focused on them.

    The base pre-gryphon PoF mounts were all super fast and tied into specific location stories.

    I've yet to do war claw or the newer dragon. Well... I did start war claw last night. In about 1 hour I have maybe 6 things unlocked. It seems like all that one would take is finding a WvW group that was actively zerging away and staying with them. Given that the one group I did follow had about 80% of it's members riding the things, I imagine getting it would be easy if I had any clue what I was doing in WvW (people keep calling out weird letters in chat that I don't yet know - if I did, I'd have gotten maybe twice as far).

    Just say no to butt-flaps.

  • Did my beetle in like two hours of dedicated play session. Oh wait what am I saying... Gib us the button to instantly unlock everything, Anet!

  • Excursion.9752Excursion.9752 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mounts are like an itch that you cant scratch. Once you finally are able to scratch the itch you forget about it. I rarely use my mounts anymore other than my sckscale and warclaw. All the others are merely a means to an end.

    Did I enjoy getting them? Not really because I am impatient. Does that mean I should proclaim from the rooftops that things should be adjusted so I can have my way and get them faster? No. There are quiet a few things I hated jumping through the hoops for in this game but I did it because everyone else had to. Its like a right of passage, the higher level of mastery you see a person has the more hoops they have jumped through.

    So people who have a problem with the way things are you might as well accept the fact its not going to be changed.

                                                              There is a 50% chance you will not agree with me and a 50% chance I will not agree with you
    
  • AnClar.1304AnClar.1304 Member ✭✭
    edited September 28, 2020

    Thinking back to mount unlocks, and masteries, and what I thought then vs. now. I enjoyed the griffon scavenger hunt. It never really occurred to me that it was particularly grindy or boring. OTOH, I found the Skyscale more tedious to unlock, even though it is now the mount I use most. As for the UW skimmer unlock, I found that trivial overall. I tend to just play the game (I consider myself definitely a 'casual' player). I've never raided, and I just like the story and exploring the world and the amazing artwork. I used to think I'd never unlock all the masteries, especially the HoT ones, mostly because I suck at the mini-adventures. But by just playing, I now have all the masteries done, minus the raid ones.

    Overall, I think ANet have done a fairly decent job with the mounts. Some are better/more useful than others, but overall, they integrate well into the storyline and maps and I think they add a bit more variety and fun to the game. Now...what I'd REALLY like to see ANet develop is aerial combat! The idea of using Griffons and Skyscales like fighter planes would be epic, IMO.

  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Excursion.9752 said:
    Mounts are like an itch that you cant scratch. Once you finally are able to scratch the itch you forget about it. I rarely use my mounts anymore other than my sckscale and warclaw. All the others are merely a means to an end.

    Did I enjoy getting them? Not really because I am impatient. Does that mean I should proclaim from the rooftops that things should be adjusted so I can have my way and get them faster? No. There are quiet a few things I hated jumping through the hoops for in this game but I did it because everyone else had to. Its like a right of passage, the higher level of mastery you see a person has the more hoops they have jumped through.

    So people who have a problem with the way things are you might as well accept the fact its not going to be changed.

    Same. Now that I have unlocked them it doesn't really make much of a difference to the fun that I have in game. I highly doubt it will change now because many people have unlocked it as it is. The most that one can hope for is feedback for the future.

  • Wyvern.7951Wyvern.7951 Member ✭✭
    edited September 29, 2020

    I'm currently on my second round of adopting mounts. I got them when as they were first released and I just got almost all of them again. Speaking as somebody who got them at their release and now as somebody who just got them again, I'd say that everything but the skyscale is pretty simple to unlock. Playing without the griffon and skyscale is only really a problem on newer maps. A lot of the newer maps are designed with a lot of vertical parts. It makes following a group around maps like dragonfall without the griffon a little painful. It's do-able, you'll just miss out on quite a few events if you are trying to keep up with everyone else. That said, the griffin took me less than a day to unlock. The first time I did it, it took me longer. I would say several days. The collection is actually really fun to do. I recommend giving it a chance if you are intimidated by it. I enjoyed it the first time and the second time. The only mount that hurts a bit to obtain is the Skyscale. If you have the griffin you don't really need it though. You can keep up with people with just the griffon. I honestly recommend getting the skyscale slowly or else you'll end up a sad soggy choya for the duration of the collection. I think some people who unlocked it forget just how tedious that collection is. It's not that it's difficult and it has its cute moments. Sadly it's just not fun. Your fun mileage will vary depending on how you play. Luckily once you grab it, you can forget about the journey and remind yourself that you'll never have to do it again.

    I'd say, Raptor, Springer, Skimmer and Jackal are extremely easy to unlock. In 95% of the maps, you don't need the griffin to get around comfortably. Masteries level quickly with story progression and general play. The griffin is a little more involved, but it's still fairly simple. It's a lot more fun with a friend, if you have one willing to take the journey with you. The Skyscale on the other hand is only slightly soul destroying, but you'll only lose a small piece of yourself! It's also not required for anything if you have the griffin. You can follow groups perfectly fine with a griffin if you don't have a skyscale. The only time I felt behind was when I decided to jump into the newest maps without any mounts. As PoF content gets older and older, it could potentially become a problem but I don't think it is right now. It really depends on how Anet designs future content and how much they might rely on having older content. If it were to become a problem, it's years away still.

  • Luthan.5236Luthan.5236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2020

    Is it really that grindy for the mounts absolutely required to complete the story and most map achievements? Afaik some of the later added mounts are entirely for convenience and more speed maybe. I guess it is okay to make them harder to obtain. I mean there aren't many really hard to get things in this game. Except grinding money for legendaries. (I just did Aurora stuff while doing dailies on those maps to get some resources from there for saving for other things. And I don't even have money to guy the other things for this legendary. And the achievements did not feel grindy and a lot of people already complain there.)

    What will be left of the game if you remove everything and make it as easy as possible? For some it is a feeling of having accomplished something - if it takes long. (Yeah ... you could also replace the "long" with "short but very hard" and then the disabled players, etc. would complain. There is optional and hard stuff elsewhere in the game. Clocktower JP or stuff like that - for me it actually is not that hard.)

    Edit: And exp requirements ... really isn't an argument. I just finished Tyria and HoT masteries fully. Not even started with PoF (I play in realease order and want ot finish GW1 nightfall an I have tons of other stuff to do in my time that's why it takes a bit for me - befor going to PoF) and it didn't feel grindy. And HoT seems to have the highest requirements for masteries regarding exp. Maybe just do story and map achievements and while there some events ... making the exp bar automatically fill up by having fun and playing normally. Instead of saying "I need to force myself to get all mounts asap before I can start to play the game" lol. (Actually feels like some people play that way. :D )

  • there is no grinding if you play the game since the beginning of do the story as they are meant to.

    it is from a different perspective that players think there is grinding involved in getting certain things in the game

    take me for example
    i never play much of fractal, never even think of going to raid or farm dungeon, on my personal perspective those are grind if i want to get to where the other players are right now who have been playing since the early days of fractal, raid or dungeon map , is it fair for me to ask for them to be dumb down so i can fast track to where the rest of the players who have spent countless hours there? NO

    SO the answer to you trying to dumb down "what you perceive to be grind " IS NOT OKAY BY ME. I do still have a super low level account, that I wish to level up, but not like this.

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I have all mounts and I am okay with the way you get the more advanced ones. But the Skyscale one is a bit over the top. Don't know why they did it. It's such a basic thing to have a mount. Imho they'd rather made a special skin for it complicated (everyone remembers the Netherdrake in WoW?).

  • @Nubarus.9268 said:
    So how is a bigger bank or bag space going to make you win over other players? Those are easy to obtain with game gold exchange when they are on sale to begin with. So we are so called white knight defenders for not seeing how those are pay2win? I never spend real money in the gems store, yet I have extra bank tabs, more resource space, extra shared inventory space as well as unlimited harvest tools. So explain to me how that is pay2win for having these none cosmetic items I obtained with game gold vs someone who used real money................

    more bag/bank space means more gold earned & saved over time. i don't understand how that isn't obvious.

    i'll say again: if it's not PURELY COSMETIC, it provides an in-game advantage and is therefore pay2win.

    whether you can buy the P2W items with in-game gold or real money doesn't matter, it's still pay2win.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @Nubarus.9268 said:
    So how is a bigger bank or bag space going to make you win over other players? Those are easy to obtain with game gold exchange when they are on sale to begin with. So we are so called white knight defenders for not seeing how those are pay2win? I never spend real money in the gems store, yet I have extra bank tabs, more resource space, extra shared inventory space as well as unlimited harvest tools. So explain to me how that is pay2win for having these none cosmetic items I obtained with game gold vs someone who used real money................

    more bag/bank space means more gold earned & saved over time. i don't understand how that isn't obvious.

    i'll say again: if it's not PURELY COSMETIC, it provides an in-game advantage and is therefore pay2win.

    whether you can buy the P2W items with in-game gold or real money doesn't matter, it's still pay2win.

    You have a skewered idea of what pay2win is. If it gives you a combat advantage over other players whom havent bought it, then its pay2win.
    At most ascended stuff is the biggest noticeable upgrade for your character. If you buy gold with intention on making it fast, then it could be construed as pay2win. But most ascended gear is easy to get outside crafting these days.
    Extra coniviences is not p2w. Look at the copperfed salvageomatic. Or unlimited gathering tools, would you seriously claim those are pay2win stuff?

    Yes ofcourse they would someone with those tools and salvager can run around harvest and fight forever and not having to visit a merchant once.
    Throw in a
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tarrktun_Personal_Delivery_Portal

    And they can sell from everywere aswell.

  • Nubarus.9268Nubarus.9268 Member ✭✭
    edited October 4, 2020

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @Nubarus.9268 said:
    So how is a bigger bank or bag space going to make you win over other players? Those are easy to obtain with game gold exchange when they are on sale to begin with. So we are so called white knight defenders for not seeing how those are pay2win? I never spend real money in the gems store, yet I have extra bank tabs, more resource space, extra shared inventory space as well as unlimited harvest tools. So explain to me how that is pay2win for having these none cosmetic items I obtained with game gold vs someone who used real money................

    more bag/bank space means more gold earned & saved over time. i don't understand how that isn't obvious.

    i'll say again: if it's not PURELY COSMETIC, it provides an in-game advantage and is therefore pay2win.

    whether you can buy the P2W items with in-game gold or real money doesn't matter, it's still pay2win.

    That is such a bad arguement that it´s just hilarious. Bag space is easy to manage if you carry salvage kits with you since you can salvage and deposit from any location on the map and random merchants ar all over the place to sell your junk. You can even sell loot in the black lion trade and pick it up later. The yelow, green and blue unidentified items that you loot can stack to 250 per slot too so that is 3 slots that can hold 250 each, same for loot bags that foes drop. Your arguement is based on lack of knowledge or just being lazy. I still do not see how convenience is pay2win..............

  • Nubarus.9268Nubarus.9268 Member ✭✭
    edited October 4, 2020

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @Nubarus.9268 said:
    So how is a bigger bank or bag space going to make you win over other players? Those are easy to obtain with game gold exchange when they are on sale to begin with. So we are so called white knight defenders for not seeing how those are pay2win? I never spend real money in the gems store, yet I have extra bank tabs, more resource space, extra shared inventory space as well as unlimited harvest tools. So explain to me how that is pay2win for having these none cosmetic items I obtained with game gold vs someone who used real money................

    more bag/bank space means more gold earned & saved over time. i don't understand how that isn't obvious.

    i'll say again: if it's not PURELY COSMETIC, it provides an in-game advantage and is therefore pay2win.

    whether you can buy the P2W items with in-game gold or real money doesn't matter, it's still pay2win.

    You have a skewered idea of what pay2win is. If it gives you a combat advantage over other players whom havent bought it, then its pay2win.
    At most ascended stuff is the biggest noticeable upgrade for your character. If you buy gold with intention on making it fast, then it could be construed as pay2win. But most ascended gear is easy to get outside crafting these days.
    Extra coniviences is not p2w. Look at the copperfed salvageomatic. Or unlimited gathering tools, would you seriously claim those are pay2win stuff?

    Yes ofcourse they would someone with those tools and salvager can run around harvest and fight forever and not having to visit a merchant once.
    Throw in a
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tarrktun_Personal_Delivery_Portal

    And they can sell from everywere aswell.

    Anyone can sell from anywhere on the map, just not pick up the cash but you can always do that later so what are you talking about? And we still have to find merchants to sell junk drops to but they are all over the maps anyway. PS: I got over 100 of them personal delivery portals in my bank but never bought one in the gems store ever. I also never use them since I pick up my sales at any other time since many maps have a trader npc...........

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If playing a game to you feels like grind you should play something else, at least temporarily.

  • jokke.6239jokke.6239 Member ✭✭✭

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @Nubarus.9268 said:
    So how is a bigger bank or bag space going to make you win over other players? Those are easy to obtain with game gold exchange when they are on sale to begin with. So we are so called white knight defenders for not seeing how those are pay2win? I never spend real money in the gems store, yet I have extra bank tabs, more resource space, extra shared inventory space as well as unlimited harvest tools. So explain to me how that is pay2win for having these none cosmetic items I obtained with game gold vs someone who used real money................

    more bag/bank space means more gold earned & saved over time. i don't understand how that isn't obvious.

    i'll say again: if it's not PURELY COSMETIC, it provides an in-game advantage and is therefore pay2win.

    whether you can buy the P2W items with in-game gold or real money doesn't matter, it's still pay2win.

    You know what's a bad argument?
    Arguing that QoL stuff is P2W.
    It actually lose you gold, it doesn't earn you gold, in most cases.
    Take the gems you were about to spend on QoL and Gem>Gold and for most players there's more profit in this.
    QoL is simply to make the game less tedious.
    Are they creating problems to sell solutions? Oh yea 100%. Does that make it Pay 2 Win .. Nope ..
    This is needed in a game with no sub fee. Everyone can easily earn those items with gold over time.
    And here's my question for you. Because I've seen this a million times from people arguing it's pay2win.
    Why are you complaining about QoL items, instead of bringing up the fact that the game straight up SELLS YOU GOLD.
    I don't get it. You complain about QoL making the process of earning gold easier, but you never bring up the fact that you can buy gold.
    But then you would have to switch focus on something actually being P2W .. There isn't any.
    You say it's pay2win if you earn gold faster (in most cases you lose gold) but i'll play along ..
    What can you get with said gold that makes you win?
    I'm waiting ..

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nubarus.9268 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @Nubarus.9268 said:
    So how is a bigger bank or bag space going to make you win over other players? Those are easy to obtain with game gold exchange when they are on sale to begin with. So we are so called white knight defenders for not seeing how those are pay2win? I never spend real money in the gems store, yet I have extra bank tabs, more resource space, extra shared inventory space as well as unlimited harvest tools. So explain to me how that is pay2win for having these none cosmetic items I obtained with game gold vs someone who used real money................

    more bag/bank space means more gold earned & saved over time. i don't understand how that isn't obvious.

    i'll say again: if it's not PURELY COSMETIC, it provides an in-game advantage and is therefore pay2win.

    whether you can buy the P2W items with in-game gold or real money doesn't matter, it's still pay2win.

    You have a skewered idea of what pay2win is. If it gives you a combat advantage over other players whom havent bought it, then its pay2win.
    At most ascended stuff is the biggest noticeable upgrade for your character. If you buy gold with intention on making it fast, then it could be construed as pay2win. But most ascended gear is easy to get outside crafting these days.
    Extra coniviences is not p2w. Look at the copperfed salvageomatic. Or unlimited gathering tools, would you seriously claim those are pay2win stuff?

    Yes ofcourse they would someone with those tools and salvager can run around harvest and fight forever and not having to visit a merchant once.
    Throw in a
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tarrktun_Personal_Delivery_Portal

    And they can sell from everywere aswell.

    Anyone can sell from anywhere on the map, just not pick up the cash but you can always do that later so what are you talking about? And we still have to find merchants to sell junk drops to but they are all over the maps anyway. PS: I got over 100 of them personal delivery portals in my bank but never bought one in the gems store ever. I also never use them since I pick up my sales at any other time since many maps have a trader npc...........

    First
    That one is from a achievement and you can use it in a shared slot and sell junk without going anywere since it acts like a merchant for ecto gambling.
    So I very much dont think you have 100s of it.
    Second
    Selling on the trading post and selling to a merchant is not the same thing, you have a chance of your things never selling unless you sell instantly and make the trading post barons happy.

  • Nubarus.9268Nubarus.9268 Member ✭✭
    edited October 4, 2020

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Nubarus.9268 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @Nubarus.9268 said:
    So how is a bigger bank or bag space going to make you win over other players? Those are easy to obtain with game gold exchange when they are on sale to begin with. So we are so called white knight defenders for not seeing how those are pay2win? I never spend real money in the gems store, yet I have extra bank tabs, more resource space, extra shared inventory space as well as unlimited harvest tools. So explain to me how that is pay2win for having these none cosmetic items I obtained with game gold vs someone who used real money................

    more bag/bank space means more gold earned & saved over time. i don't understand how that isn't obvious.

    i'll say again: if it's not PURELY COSMETIC, it provides an in-game advantage and is therefore pay2win.

    whether you can buy the P2W items with in-game gold or real money doesn't matter, it's still pay2win.

    You have a skewered idea of what pay2win is. If it gives you a combat advantage over other players whom havent bought it, then its pay2win.
    At most ascended stuff is the biggest noticeable upgrade for your character. If you buy gold with intention on making it fast, then it could be construed as pay2win. But most ascended gear is easy to get outside crafting these days.
    Extra coniviences is not p2w. Look at the copperfed salvageomatic. Or unlimited gathering tools, would you seriously claim those are pay2win stuff?

    Yes ofcourse they would someone with those tools and salvager can run around harvest and fight forever and not having to visit a merchant once.
    Throw in a
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tarrktun_Personal_Delivery_Portal

    And they can sell from everywere aswell.

    Anyone can sell from anywhere on the map, just not pick up the cash but you can always do that later so what are you talking about? And we still have to find merchants to sell junk drops to but they are all over the maps anyway. PS: I got over 100 of them personal delivery portals in my bank but never bought one in the gems store ever. I also never use them since I pick up my sales at any other time since many maps have a trader npc...........

    First
    That one is from a achievement and you can use it in a shared slot and sell junk without going anywere since it acts like a merchant for ecto gambling.
    So I very much dont think you have 100s of it.
    Second
    Selling on the trading post and selling to a merchant is not the same thing, you have a chance of your things never selling unless you sell instantly and make the trading post barons happy.

    Ok fine, I mixed it up with the one use Merchant Express that I have over 100 of but never bought any. I also didn't say 100s but over 100. I am well aware that selling to the merchant and selling to the black lion trader is not the same thing, I fail to see how you even came up with the idea that I think it is..................You can open the black lion trade anywhere on the map and sell your stuff at all times, just not pick up your cash. That is what I said. I list many items and materials every week and they always sell, I only sell instantly if the price difference is 1 or 2 copper, otherwise I list and it will sell. I have made the vast majority of my gold doing this over the years. I salvage most of my loot, use the materials I need for crafting and sell the rest on the black lion market. I see now I thought it was a black lion access item since I didn't bother to open the link in the first place. You sure love to drag in every available item to try and prove how terrible this game is when it comes to a pay2win system. Even achievement items are included...............geez

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nubarus.9268 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Nubarus.9268 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @Nubarus.9268 said:
    So how is a bigger bank or bag space going to make you win over other players? Those are easy to obtain with game gold exchange when they are on sale to begin with. So we are so called white knight defenders for not seeing how those are pay2win? I never spend real money in the gems store, yet I have extra bank tabs, more resource space, extra shared inventory space as well as unlimited harvest tools. So explain to me how that is pay2win for having these none cosmetic items I obtained with game gold vs someone who used real money................

    more bag/bank space means more gold earned & saved over time. i don't understand how that isn't obvious.

    i'll say again: if it's not PURELY COSMETIC, it provides an in-game advantage and is therefore pay2win.

    whether you can buy the P2W items with in-game gold or real money doesn't matter, it's still pay2win.

    You have a skewered idea of what pay2win is. If it gives you a combat advantage over other players whom havent bought it, then its pay2win.
    At most ascended stuff is the biggest noticeable upgrade for your character. If you buy gold with intention on making it fast, then it could be construed as pay2win. But most ascended gear is easy to get outside crafting these days.
    Extra coniviences is not p2w. Look at the copperfed salvageomatic. Or unlimited gathering tools, would you seriously claim those are pay2win stuff?

    Yes ofcourse they would someone with those tools and salvager can run around harvest and fight forever and not having to visit a merchant once.
    Throw in a
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tarrktun_Personal_Delivery_Portal

    And they can sell from everywere aswell.

    Anyone can sell from anywhere on the map, just not pick up the cash but you can always do that later so what are you talking about? And we still have to find merchants to sell junk drops to but they are all over the maps anyway. PS: I got over 100 of them personal delivery portals in my bank but never bought one in the gems store ever. I also never use them since I pick up my sales at any other time since many maps have a trader npc...........

    First
    That one is from a achievement and you can use it in a shared slot and sell junk without going anywere since it acts like a merchant for ecto gambling.
    So I very much dont think you have 100s of it.
    Second
    Selling on the trading post and selling to a merchant is not the same thing, you have a chance of your things never selling unless you sell instantly and make the trading post barons happy.

    Ok fine, I mixed it up with the one use Merchant Express that I have over 100 of but never bought any. I also didn't say 100s but over 100. I am well aware that selling to the merchant and selling to the black lion trader is not the same thing, I fail to see how you even came up with the idea that I think it is..................You can open the black lion trade anywhere on the map and sell your stuff at all times, just not pick up your cash. That is what I said. I list many items and materials every week and they always sell, I only sell instantly if the price difference is 1 or 2 copper, otherwise I list and it will sell. I have made the vast majority of my gold doing this over the years. I salvage most of my loot, use the materials I need for crafting and sell the rest on the black lion market. I see now I thought it was a black lion access item since I didn't bother to open the link in the first place. You sure love to drag in every available item to try and prove how terrible this game is when it comes to a pay2win system. Even achievement items are included...............geez

    Oh Im not arguing that its p2w at all, since I dont belive it is.
    I just replied to the other guy that the guy they quoted most likely think it is.

  • scerevisiae.1972scerevisiae.1972 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2020

    @jokke.6239 said:

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @Nubarus.9268 said:
    So how is a bigger bank or bag space going to make you win over other players? Those are easy to obtain with game gold exchange when they are on sale to begin with. So we are so called white knight defenders for not seeing how those are pay2win? I never spend real money in the gems store, yet I have extra bank tabs, more resource space, extra shared inventory space as well as unlimited harvest tools. So explain to me how that is pay2win for having these none cosmetic items I obtained with game gold vs someone who used real money................

    more bag/bank space means more gold earned & saved over time. i don't understand how that isn't obvious.

    i'll say again: if it's not PURELY COSMETIC, it provides an in-game advantage and is therefore pay2win.

    whether you can buy the P2W items with in-game gold or real money doesn't matter, it's still pay2win.

    You know what's a bad argument?
    Arguing that QoL stuff is P2W.
    It actually lose you gold, it doesn't earn you gold, in most cases.
    Take the gems you were about to spend on QoL and Gem>Gold and for most players there's more profit in this.
    QoL is simply to make the game less tedious.
    Are they creating problems to sell solutions? Oh yea 100%. Does that make it Pay 2 Win .. Nope ..
    This is needed in a game with no sub fee. Everyone can easily earn those items with gold over time.
    And here's my question for you. Because I've seen this a million times from people arguing it's pay2win.
    Why are you complaining about QoL items, instead of bringing up the fact that the game straight up SELLS YOU GOLD.
    I don't get it. You complain about QoL making the process of earning gold easier, but you never bring up the fact that you can buy gold.
    But then you would have to switch focus on something actually being P2W .. There isn't any.
    You say it's pay2win if you earn gold faster (in most cases you lose gold) but i'll play along ..
    What can you get with said gold that makes you win?
    I'm waiting ..

    it's only quality of life if it's FREE and given to everybody, eg: reducing harvest times across the board is an example of QoL.

    Anet do not do QoL changes, they deliberately make something painful so they can sell items (P2W) to decrease the painfulness, eg: placing bank a long way from BLTC in Lion's arch and then selling access to prestige trading hubs, portable banks & BLTC merchants.

    game is rife with P2W, it's literally everywhere. it's not super obnoxious P2W like a BLTC sword that instakills, but it's definitely P2W.

  • Skyscale was...excessive. Took me 3 weeks, but mostly because there were days I could not be bothered.
    The collections were never ending and required way too much busy work. There is actually a really interesting quest in there if the steps we cut by about 30 - 40%.
    But that is the only one for whom complaints about how engaging the content was given the investment required feels justified.
    Rollerbeetle, Griffon, and Skimmer are all quick enough as not to matter. Even if Griffon is more expensive than I would have liked.

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @jokke.6239 said:

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @Nubarus.9268 said:
    So how is a bigger bank or bag space going to make you win over other players? Those are easy to obtain with game gold exchange when they are on sale to begin with. So we are so called white knight defenders for not seeing how those are pay2win? I never spend real money in the gems store, yet I have extra bank tabs, more resource space, extra shared inventory space as well as unlimited harvest tools. So explain to me how that is pay2win for having these none cosmetic items I obtained with game gold vs someone who used real money................

    more bag/bank space means more gold earned & saved over time. i don't understand how that isn't obvious.

    i'll say again: if it's not PURELY COSMETIC, it provides an in-game advantage and is therefore pay2win.

    whether you can buy the P2W items with in-game gold or real money doesn't matter, it's still pay2win.

    You know what's a bad argument?
    Arguing that QoL stuff is P2W.
    It actually lose you gold, it doesn't earn you gold, in most cases.
    Take the gems you were about to spend on QoL and Gem>Gold and for most players there's more profit in this.
    QoL is simply to make the game less tedious.
    Are they creating problems to sell solutions? Oh yea 100%. Does that make it Pay 2 Win .. Nope ..
    This is needed in a game with no sub fee. Everyone can easily earn those items with gold over time.
    And here's my question for you. Because I've seen this a million times from people arguing it's pay2win.
    Why are you complaining about QoL items, instead of bringing up the fact that the game straight up SELLS YOU GOLD.
    I don't get it. You complain about QoL making the process of earning gold easier, but you never bring up the fact that you can buy gold.
    But then you would have to switch focus on something actually being P2W .. There isn't any.
    You say it's pay2win if you earn gold faster (in most cases you lose gold) but i'll play along ..
    What can you get with said gold that makes you win?
    I'm waiting ..

    it's only quality of life if it's FREE and given to everybody, eg: reducing harvest times across the board is an example of QoL.

    Anet do not do QoL changes, they deliberately make something painful so they can sell items (P2W) to decrease the painfulness, eg: placing bank a long way from BLTC in Lion's arch and then selling access to prestige trading hubs, portable banks & BLTC merchants.

    game is rife with P2W, it's literally everywhere. it's not super obnoxious P2W like a BLTC sword that instakills, but it's definitely P2W.

    Taking the bank as an example, most players have to travel to a bank in order to use it. I have to travel to a bank on the Tyria map to use it (or Eye of North, I've got most of the services there). How on earth is having to pay some silver, and go to a different map, to get to a bank P2W? Seriously, how?

    I maxxed out all my trades. That took crafting and ingame gathering time. I can make ascended gear that gives me slightly better stats, plus infusion slots so I can go and do fractals. Is my ability to craft ascended (and legendaries) P2W?

    Good grief.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2020

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @jokke.6239 said:

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @Nubarus.9268 said:
    So how is a bigger bank or bag space going to make you win over other players? Those are easy to obtain with game gold exchange when they are on sale to begin with. So we are so called white knight defenders for not seeing how those are pay2win? I never spend real money in the gems store, yet I have extra bank tabs, more resource space, extra shared inventory space as well as unlimited harvest tools. So explain to me how that is pay2win for having these none cosmetic items I obtained with game gold vs someone who used real money................

    more bag/bank space means more gold earned & saved over time. i don't understand how that isn't obvious.

    i'll say again: if it's not PURELY COSMETIC, it provides an in-game advantage and is therefore pay2win.

    whether you can buy the P2W items with in-game gold or real money doesn't matter, it's still pay2win.

    You know what's a bad argument?
    Arguing that QoL stuff is P2W.
    It actually lose you gold, it doesn't earn you gold, in most cases.
    Take the gems you were about to spend on QoL and Gem>Gold and for most players there's more profit in this.
    QoL is simply to make the game less tedious.
    Are they creating problems to sell solutions? Oh yea 100%. Does that make it Pay 2 Win .. Nope ..
    This is needed in a game with no sub fee. Everyone can easily earn those items with gold over time.
    And here's my question for you. Because I've seen this a million times from people arguing it's pay2win.
    Why are you complaining about QoL items, instead of bringing up the fact that the game straight up SELLS YOU GOLD.
    I don't get it. You complain about QoL making the process of earning gold easier, but you never bring up the fact that you can buy gold.
    But then you would have to switch focus on something actually being P2W .. There isn't any.
    You say it's pay2win if you earn gold faster (in most cases you lose gold) but i'll play along ..
    What can you get with said gold that makes you win?
    I'm waiting ..

    it's only quality of life if it's FREE and given to everybody, eg: reducing harvest times across the board is an example of QoL.

    You're wrong about it being p2w. And in what way does "QoL" have anything to do with "being free and given to everyone"? What are you even talking about? That's just wrong.

    Anet do not do QoL changes, they deliberately make something painful so they can sell items (P2W) to decrease the painfulness, eg: placing bank a long way from BLTC in Lion's arch and then selling access to prestige trading hubs, portable banks & BLTC merchants.

    Not painful, not pay to win. And can be bought by converting gold to gems if you're so pressed to get it without paying. I have stacks of those portable services and I never use them because there's just no reason to.

    game is rife with P2W, it's literally everywhere. it's not super obnoxious P2W like a BLTC sword that instakills, but it's definitely P2W.

    No, it's not.

  • Kichwas.7152Kichwas.7152 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2020

    @Fallesafe.5932 said:
    Any old Everquest players who find it hilarious to see GW2 mounts described as 'a grind in need of toning down?'😂 Is there even a mount in this game that takes more than a week to get??

    Yeah...

    Back in WoW around 2006/7 when I started, it took me about 3 or 4 months to get enough gold to afford my first mount.

    The longest mount grind I have had here was just shy of a week to get the war claw. It took that long ONLY because I'm NOT a WvW player and I spent most of that time randomly running from here to there then back over here because I had no idea what people were calling out in map chat...

    According to the wiki, it takes '8 hours of play' to do that grind if you're competent in WvW... which I was not.

    • I did notice that about half of the entire grind was spent on the very first 1/4th of the progress bar... because I started to get what was going on as I was playing there which resulted in things speeding up.

    I do still have the newest mount left. So maybe I will finally find this horrible multiple months long grind people are complaining about... because anything less would not be an actual grind...

    The only reason I lack the current mount is I am refusing to go get it until I get to that point in the Living Story - and I am 'catching up' on years away from here still, about halfway through season 4 right now, yet spending most of my time in Fractals and trying to get my craft skills up to 500...

    If we want to have a conversation about grind... I will be there when we get to talking about the last 35 points of crafting... from about 465 to 500... trying to that without crafting any 'vendor / sell / toss' items...

    Just say no to butt-flaps.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @Nubarus.9268 said:
    So how is a bigger bank or bag space going to make you win over other players? Those are easy to obtain with game gold exchange when they are on sale to begin with. So we are so called white knight defenders for not seeing how those are pay2win? I never spend real money in the gems store, yet I have extra bank tabs, more resource space, extra shared inventory space as well as unlimited harvest tools. So explain to me how that is pay2win for having these none cosmetic items I obtained with game gold vs someone who used real money................

    more bag/bank space means more gold earned & saved over time. i don't understand how that isn't obvious.

    i'll say again: if it's not PURELY COSMETIC, it provides an in-game advantage and is therefore pay2win.

    whether you can buy the P2W items with in-game gold or real money doesn't matter, it's still pay2win.

    Less bank and bag space, means you sell stuff more and have more gold. I had less gold when I had more bank space because I saved more stuff. When I run out of space, I start making money. Thus not pay to win.

  • @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:

    @Nubarus.9268 said:
    So how is a bigger bank or bag space going to make you win over other players? Those are easy to obtain with game gold exchange when they are on sale to begin with. So we are so called white knight defenders for not seeing how those are pay2win? I never spend real money in the gems store, yet I have extra bank tabs, more resource space, extra shared inventory space as well as unlimited harvest tools. So explain to me how that is pay2win for having these none cosmetic items I obtained with game gold vs someone who used real money................

    more bag/bank space means more gold earned & saved over time. i don't understand how that isn't obvious.

    i'll say again: if it's not PURELY COSMETIC, it provides an in-game advantage and is therefore pay2win.

    whether you can buy the P2W items with in-game gold or real money doesn't matter, it's still pay2win.

    Less bank and bag space, means you sell stuff more and have more gold. I had less gold when I had more bank space because I saved more stuff. When I run out of space, I start making money. Thus not pay to win.

    some trumpian levels of logic there.

    Not really, Before I expanded my material storage and bank tabs I sold way more materials than I do now. Now I tend to hoard stuff until I reach max capacity and even then sometimes move it to the bank tabs to hoard even more. Once I am getting low on bank space I start selling stuff. Your P2W claims are falling short and you just keep repeating the same things over and over hoping it will stick.

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:
    doesn't need to stick. if you can buy it for real money, and the item/upgrade is not purely cosmetic, it's a pay-to-win item/upgrade by definition, even if the "win" impact appears small.

    most people would say just being able to purchase gold for real money automatically makes a game P2W.

    P2W is so common in the games industry today that expect all the white knighting is from younger players who are just used to it.

    That’s nice but you are still not forced to use it. Therefore it is not pay to win.

  • @scerevisiae.1972 said:
    doesn't need to stick. if you can buy it for real money, and the item/upgrade is not purely cosmetic, it's a pay-to-win item/upgrade by definition, even if the "win" impact appears small.

    most people would say just being able to purchase gold for real money automatically makes a game P2W.

    P2W is so common in the games industry today that expect all the white knighting is from younger players who are just used to it.

    Most people you say? So far I do not see most people agree with your claims at all so where are all these so called "most people" you talk about?

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:
    doesn't need to stick. if you can buy it for real money, and the item/upgrade is not purely cosmetic, it's a pay-to-win item/upgrade by definition, even if the "win" impact appears small.

    most people would say just being able to purchase gold for real money automatically makes a game P2W.

    P2W is so common in the games industry today that expect all the white knighting is from younger players who are just used to it.

    So expansions and subscriptions are pay 2 win too right? Since you buy them for real money and what they offer is not purely cosmetic. If everything is P2W according to your definition then we need something else here to differentiate the "seriousness" of P2W