Gone with the RNG of Weakness.

Make so it's -50% of critical damage, not -50% chance for critical hits. The ordeal is annoying for either parties and there's enough RNG with critical chance from precision already.

I don't think anyone has ever complained about weakness. If anything it should give -50% condition duration too.

@FrownyClown.8402 said:I don't think anyone has ever complained about weakness. If anything it should give -50% condition duration too.

Because who ever plays around weakness and ever complain? Only when the RNG isn't in their favor or that nearly all professions have some form of weakness playstyle but are completely ignored. However you're agreeing that RNG is good, but conditions should suffer 100% consistently? That doesn't add up.

@Shao.7236 said:Make so it's -50% of critical damage, not -50% chance for critical hits. The ordeal is annoying for either parties and there's enough RNG with critical chance from precision already.

I say we make Weakness consistent in it's deletion from the game! Or at lease less prevalent.

Because 50% chance for critical hits can affect some condi builds.

50% reduction in crit damage only hurts power builds.

50% reduction in critical hit dmg and -10% outgoing condition damage (at most) seems reasonable imo.

@Tycura.1982 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Make so it's -50% of critical damage, not -50% chance for critical hits. The ordeal is annoying for either parties and there's enough RNG with critical chance from precision already.

Isn't power crept enough? It's meta afterall. Anyways, you prefer doing less damage even more randomly rather than having the same chance as before but with totals cut in half? It's technically more of a nerf than a buff to weakness because some classes have 100% critical chance anyway, also less RNG is more healthy overall IMO.

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:Because 50% chance for critical hits can affect some condi builds.

50% reduction in crit damage only hurts power builds.

Those traits are pretty much place holders for how weak they are at 33%, they definitely could see an improvement by how under powered they are. Weakness as of right now is pretty much irrelevant to conditions overall since everyone tends to use Carrion anyway.

@Shao.7236 said:Those traits are pretty much place holders for how weak they are at 33%, they definitely could see an improvement by how under powered they are. Weakness as of right now is pretty much irrelevant to conditions overall since everyone tends to use Carrion anyway.

It's not just those traits. There's actually so many 'on crit' effect traits that proc conditions, effects, or boons. I could list every single one for you here, but i'm not going to because i'm not insane and I don't care that much.

It's not much since like you say, condition builds aren't really reliant on them, but it is something.What you're asking for is for weakness to basically have two debuffs for power builds, both of which are pretty substantial for them, and for Condi to only get one.

Very fair, very reasonable.

Not a major issue at the moment...?

@Shao.7236 said:

@Tycura.1982 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Make so it's -50% of critical damage, not -50% chance for critical hits. The ordeal is annoying for either parties and there's enough RNG with critical chance from precision already.

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:Because 50% chance for critical hits can affect some condi builds.

50% reduction in crit damage only hurts power builds.

Currently there are too many sources of weakness floating around. Just by existing DD gets high weakness uptime. LR DD. Instead of being a meaningful used condition it's typically thrown in as Condi bloat. I'm okay with a power only meta with the exception of a few classes that condition builds are thematic like necro, ele and mesmer. Think about the meta whenever Anet lets condi thief get buffed. It's obnoxious.

I think Condi would be less obnoxious if it wasn't damage by AoE or proximity. Consider condition berserker versus axe mirage and S/F burn weaver. Delivery should be more active to promote counterplay. It's like how core symbols are carrying some people because there's no active component. How do you dodge an AoE field that ticks longer than a dodge? Most condition builds are like symbol Guardian.

@Tycura.1982 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Tycura.1982 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Make so it's -50% of critical damage, not -50% chance for critical hits. The ordeal is annoying for either parties and there's enough RNG with critical chance from precision already.

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:Because 50% chance for critical hits can affect some condi builds.

50% reduction in crit damage only hurts power builds.

what does it have to do with weakness ?

@Shao.7236I was thinking similar thing, but instead.On average weakness turns 50% of hits into glancing hits. Glancing hits reduce damage by 50% and turn crits into non crits.So what we can do instead is reduce damage delt by 25% ( 0,5 x 0,5 = 0,25 ) and reduce crit chance by 50% of actual value. OR reduce crit damage bonus by 50% . if its 180% it would look like 140% [( Crit multi -100%)/2]+100%= new crit multi. So what damage that crit increase is reduced by 50% ( would still proc on crit traits tho )That way on average damage stays the same while the damage itself is more consistent and predictable, with higher lows, and lower highs.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Tycura.1982 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Tycura.1982 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Make so it's -50% of critical damage, not -50% chance for critical hits. The ordeal is annoying for either parties and there's enough RNG with critical chance from precision already.

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:Because 50% chance for critical hits can affect some condi builds.

50% reduction in crit damage only hurts power builds.

Just throwing my 2 cents out there. I don't think weakness needs to be changed but less common.

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:I don't think anyone has ever complained about weakness. If anything it should give -50% condition duration too.

A little search on this forum with threads having "weakness" in the title will show you how wrong you are.

Besides yes, I am the first one to complain about the RNG of weakness. If it was not a problem before, it wasn't because of the effect, but because on how rare this condition was.

@Shao.7236 said:Make so it's -50% of critical damage, not -50% chance for critical hits. The ordeal is annoying for either parties and there's enough RNG with critical chance from precision already.

There are thousands of way to change it for no RNG. OP proposed one that I might not fully agree with as it, as it barely impacts the damage output of bunkers while shaving the one of DPS. But I do trust Anet to bring a change that is both Consistent and Balanced.Oh wait.

Weakness has always been awfully designed. It is extremely unreliable.

When we had the burst power creep, it was a condition that granted you a 50% chance of surviving or otherwise ending up oneshot, so at the end of the day you dodged the incoming attack anyway because nobody likes to gamble with a 50% instant death chance.

The damage reduction patch helped a lot to add more value to this condition as the target now needs more hits to kill you so that there are more opportunities for the RNG to do its thing.

The endurance regeneration reduction is negligible these days as the weakness duration of most skills and traits has become extremely low (3s on average).

im still thinking about it while i would like to see the rng of it get better i dont want its effects to be so mild that they can be ignored. If weakness actually becomes weaker than that leads to a whole new round of how they should probably look at might generation is across all professions.Some professions still have outliers that need to be addressed in their own kits once thats done weakness rng might be ok as is even if im not a 100% fan of it currently because either it works super effectively or it does not work at all and yous still get omega bursted into the floor.

Generally though off the top of my head i ant think of any changes to weakness that i would be happy with or that i doubt anyone else would be happy with.First fix other things then lets circle back around to this when the over performing things are fixed.As someone who plays a professions whos sustain heavily depends on something like weakness output to not be instantly ran over this is a rather hard thing to suggest changing even if im not 100% happy with the rng style of how it works.

@Tycura.1982As someone who plays core revenant a lot, which is already rare enough, it's a big gamble whenever something will hurt or not because of that factor.

Sometimes, even if my sustain is executed properly, I can take as a little as 3 digits hits from what would be normally 6k or more while if I'm not lucky enough, I get hit for 3k even though I have RotG on with weakness applied, this is why it would be much preferable because then I would know better if it's gonna hurt or not, the other will also know that because they see the weakness, holding off is the better way of not wasting skills, but if they commit anyway, it's going to be based on the same factor as they invested in from the very start and not some very unlikely odds.

As it is, it's either two extremes rather than the middle ground and it's pretty frustrating for both players.

I think weakness is a good mechanic by how it's intended to keep power in check, the same way it does for resistance against conditions, to remove weakness is removing power spam check, exactly how killing Mallyx has allowed condi spam to return.

Before people jump on the idea that I am biased towards it. I agree that a few things were overtuned, but they had no reason to write it off entirely. It's basically the same sitting duck as it was in the past now, Renegade without Mallyx and Corruption is a better condition setup than Mace/Axe or Mallyx but also at tanking conditions. It's extremely backward.

Finally, to speak on behalf of professions I know well, for Warrior it's possible to play like a Core Revenant / Thief and effectively deal absurd damage with good sustain. Hammer with the right setup does well and I love it personally.

Elementalist had an awkward setup but it did improve with the changes for Weaver dual casts, this is what the weakness was intended for..

If we were to make things bit less RNG by cutting damage that can be really high rather than preventing it altogether based on weird odds, the game would be a lot more fun for everyone.

It's a lot of damage we are talking about, non crits are extremely low. Being able to crit for still 50% for what can be typically 6k hurts at 3k and isn't as wasted compared not having crit damage at all. (Which is RNG as hell!)

@Leonidrex.5649As long as it's something consistent that results in a fair situation for both players, I'm all for it.