End of Dragons: New Races (Realistic Expectations) and Elite Specializations - [Merged]

Aside from the desired Tengu from which Cantha has many of.

What about Largos?They have rich culture just waiting to be pried out. Which itself can be based off of the original Guild Wars 1 Assassin. Many largos dual wield swords which could be a new addition to the THIEF class as an offhand weapon. Would be interesting to see as well because they Unending ocean is in between Cantha and our current region so would be a SHAME to not be able to have them at least in the story.

Tengu - Tengu would be a great addition to the playable races as many desire it but also because they are in the area and have a huge influence on many borders in the original Cantha.

Maybe new masteries revolving around Luxon and Kurzick alliances, an alliance system that used to be in guild wars 1 where we can aid each other in the guild menus, true GVG and more guild missions!?

Juggernaut and Siege turtle masteries?!

let the discussion begin!

I hate to burst your bubble but according to The movement of the world:

In the year 1127 AE, Emperor Usoku, successor to Kisu, took a firm hold of his nation. He raised the Canthan military, spending millions in gold to arm his troops, and then swept the countryside. He defeated the Luxons and the Kurzick, incorporating these disparate people back into his nation. Usoku unified Cantha behind a strong national identity and began to drive out all non-humans.

So all the tengu left cantha, and the luxons and the kurzicks are no more.

For new playble race, please refer to the existing ten billion threads about it.For alliances, if you think of it as open world PvE, there's a million threads about it as well. If it's just a story decission like which faction should guard Amnoon in the PoF stry, then sure, might happen.Juggernauts and Siege Turtles, Since the Warclaw wasn't actually well received with the WvW crowd I doubt they would introduce another mount to WvW and where else would you want to use siege? Sure there's drizzlewood, but no one will be there once the expansion hits.

@"castlemanic.3198" said:I hate to burst your bubble but according to The movement of the world:

In the year 1127 AE, Emperor Usoku, successor to Kisu, took a firm hold of his nation. He raised the Canthan military, spending millions in gold to arm his troops, and then swept the countryside. He defeated the Luxons and the Kurzick, incorporating these disparate people back into his nation. Usoku unified Cantha behind a strong national identity and began to drive out all non-humans.

Didnt the movement of te world said thst the jade had started melting after some time as well?

@zealex.9410 said:

@"castlemanic.3198" said:I hate to burst your bubble but according to

The movement of the world

:

In the year 1127 AE, Emperor Usoku, successor to Kisu, took a firm hold of his nation. He raised the Canthan military, spending millions in gold to arm his troops, and then swept the countryside. He defeated the Luxons and the Kurzick, incorporating these disparate people back into his nation. Usoku unified Cantha behind a strong national identity and began to drive out all non-humans.

did you not see the trailer?

@zealex.9410 said:

@"castlemanic.3198" said:I hate to burst your bubble but according to

The movement of the world

:

In the year 1127 AE, Emperor Usoku, successor to Kisu, took a firm hold of his nation. He raised the Canthan military, spending millions in gold to arm his troops, and then swept the countryside. He defeated the Luxons and the Kurzick, incorporating these disparate people back into his nation. Usoku unified Cantha behind a strong national identity and began to drive out all non-humans.

Something that WoodenPotatoes has prompted in his discussions on YouTube is how a new playable could mechanically work with the game and this is something I'd like to discuss in more detail as well. I'm aware that many players want either the Tengu or the Largos (or some other lesser known race) to be introduced as playable in the upcoming End of Dragons expansion. HOWEVER, I see a very big problem with this and that is story continuity. For both the Tengu and the Largos their entire civilizations have been hidden and presented as secretive or isolationist. Introducing them as playable would have to jump through multiple hoops in order for the story to make sense.

The first reason this would be difficult to do properly is that Guild Wars 2 is and always has been the story of the Pact Commander and all their amazing feats (Dragon killing etc.). If you introduce the Tengu for example you would have to do one of two things - 1. Make the Tengu character still be the Commander that basically formed the Pact, killed Zhaitan, etc. OR 2. Make the Tengu playable with a short independent story that does not interact with the Commander's story at all.

If you take path #2 with an independent story you will lose out on future content being available to that race since you are not playing as the Commander so this route would be very detrimental to the race's long term playability. If you take path #1 and make this Tengu (etc.) character be the Commander from the beginning you would have to create a brand new low level core game story to justify the presence of this FAMOUS character from a civilization no one knows anything about that is supposed to be generally isolationist. You would have to find a way to write in their civilization to the core game's story without rewriting the history of the core game in the process. So unless ArenaNet is willing to basically rewrite half the game I don't think we'll be getting a new playable race that requires a consistent backstory.

Now, why am I saying that these are the only two real paths to include such a playable race? Because ArenaNet cannot afford to do what they did with the Revenant class to a new playable race. If you remember, when Heart of Thorns came out and introduced the Revenant to players the story introduced someone as the FIRST Revenant using magic no one knew anything about. BUT the company shoehorned the class into the whole story and created a situation where you could play as a Revenant from the very beginning of the game's story and BE a Revenant already when that character shows up as being the FIRST Revenant. Making it a really awkward situation in relation to story continuity. Like, how are you going to be using all this magic that no one knows about and then every one be surprised when someone shows up doing exactly what you've been doing the whole time? Sure you can handwave and gloss over details like that with a playable class, but you CANNOT do this with a playable race. It would wreck the story of the game and create so many awkward questions that it would weaken the game's overall story.

But I know a lot of people still want a new playable race in Guild Wars 2, and I know that a new race would be very shiny to new players. So how can you create a new race that can justify the previously established story, still be the Pact Commander, and yet be something new at the same time? I have an idea (mind you this is just an idea so please be kind in the comments).

Make the new playable race be the Exalted. You can select the Exalted race in the character selection screen which could then open a dream sequence featuring a new voice that represents the Commander (instead of relying on the voice of any previous race or gender) have the Exalted identify you as the Pact Commander in the dream without the player ever seeing the Pact Commander themselves - this allows the player to imagine that the Commander is any of the other races at this moment - offering the player the choice to become an Exalted which the character accepts on behalf of the player. This allows ALL previous story to be valid and unchanged while still introducing a new race. Once the choice has been accepted the dream ends with a flash or something and the player "wakes up" in an Exalted city (presumably in Cantha, though the location can be anywhere affecting whatever expansion this could be a part of) and is given a new and proper tutorial of the game that is currently lacking in the stories of the other races. After the tasks of the detailed tutorial are complete the player is made level 80 and is allowed to progress through the rest of the Commander's future story. Again this option of the Commander becoming an Exalted allows all previous history to be unchanged and valid without forcing new players to buy the previous expansions or do the core game right away AND provides a tutorial system that does not require interacting with old code that may not be easily understood due to its age and distance from current developers.

Another benefit to using the Exalted as the new playable race is that it's very shiny and could be attractive to new players coming from other games that might be interested in a playing a glowing, floating creature that is quite unique to Guild Wars as far as I'm aware. It could attract veteran players as well who know the story behind the Exalted and may find them fascinating as well as shiny. The new tutorial system may also put casual veterans who struggle with certain aspects of the game in a better position to compete with more "elite" players thanks to playing as the new race.

This option would in my opinion solve most of the problems of including a new race as it does not interfere with previously established story, does not need an extensive background story, allows the Commander to have been any race or gender previously in the lore, and offers a tutorial system not bogged down with long ago written code, all while being something unique and shiny, and likely easy to advertise. It would also allow new players who do not own previous expansions to play as the new race without feeling like they have to catch up to the current story via a long drawn out playthrough of previous content though that option is still available.

Does anyone have any other ideas that could realistically work in a setting that does not mess with the continuity of the game's history and lore? I'd love to see what you might come up with.

Thanks for reading this big wall of text and again, please be kind in the comments even if you dislike my approach.

You’re missing quite a bit as as whether a new race would work with the existing story wasn’t the only concern. You’re forgetting about voice lines for the new races as well as having to rework all existing armor skins to fit the new race. Not to mention increase lead times for future skins.

All of this for something that adds little value except to RPers. A more simpler solution is just to add a few combat tonics for the race.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:You’re missing quite a bit as as whether a new race would work with the existing story wasn’t the only concern. You’re forgetting about voice lines for the new races as well as having to rework all existing armor skins to fit the new race. Not to mention increase lead times for future skins.

All of this for something that adds little value except to RPers. A more simpler solution is just to add a few combat tonics for the race.

I didn't actually forget those but saw those as more technical work aspects that would likely be successful (if not tedious work) for any race that was introduced. For me, not disrupting story was the biggest obstacle to introducing a new race as the rest can all be technically done without disrupting anything currently in the game.

@Camniel.7238 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:You’re missing quite a bit as as whether a new race would work with the existing story wasn’t the only concern. You’re forgetting about voice lines for the new races as well as having to rework all existing armor skins to fit the new race. Not to mention increase lead times for future skins.

All of this for something that adds little value except to RPers. A more simpler solution is just to add a few combat tonics for the race.

When considering adding new things, companies need to consider the costs. Those are more of an issue than how to jerryrig the personal story to work with a new race.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Camniel.7238 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:You’re missing quite a bit as as whether a new race would work with the existing story wasn’t the only concern. You’re forgetting about voice lines for the new races as well as having to rework all existing armor skins to fit the new race. Not to mention increase lead times for future skins.

All of this for something that adds little value except to RPers. A more simpler solution is just to add a few combat tonics for the race.

That's more beyond the scope of the idea of this post. I'm running with the idea that many players have been asking for a new playable race so how can it actually work out without disrupting the game. I don't believe we get a new playable race in the end because of the work load involved BUT options for how it COULD happen are the point of this post.

@Camniel.7238 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Camniel.7238 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:You’re missing quite a bit as as whether a new race would work with the existing story wasn’t the only concern. You’re forgetting about voice lines for the new races as well as having to rework all existing armor skins to fit the new race. Not to mention increase lead times for future skins.

All of this for something that adds little value except to RPers. A more simpler solution is just to add a few combat tonics for the race.

It’s not outside the scope. You cannot focus solely on one issue about adding a new race, while ignoring the others, and then claim you have a solution for adding a new race.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Camniel.7238 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Camniel.7238 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:You’re missing quite a bit as as whether a new race would work with the existing story wasn’t the only concern. You’re forgetting about voice lines for the new races as well as having to rework all existing armor skins to fit the new race. Not to mention increase lead times for future skins.

All of this for something that adds little value except to RPers. A more simpler solution is just to add a few combat tonics for the race.

Then you provide something better to the discussion. Offer those details. But frankly while all of them would be important to consider, you cannot invalidate the fact that any new race cannot disrupt currently available story content in the implementation of a new race - ALL the other details you are considering can be successful but if the race disrupts story the end product suffers regardless. But like I said, if you have ideas, offer them as actual details to consider instead of telling me I'm wrong for not including them in my narrowed down topic.

@Camniel.7238 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Camniel.7238 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Camniel.7238 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:You’re missing quite a bit as as whether a new race would work with the existing story wasn’t the only concern. You’re forgetting about voice lines for the new races as well as having to rework all existing armor skins to fit the new race. Not to mention increase lead times for future skins.

All of this for something that adds little value except to RPers. A more simpler solution is just to add a few combat tonics for the race.

There doesn’t need to be a new playable race. The solution is to give players combat tonics.

I never said that adding a new race wouldn’t disrupt the personal story. This was about the costs associated with adapting armor being ignored/downplayed.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Camniel.7238 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Camniel.7238 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Camniel.7238 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:You’re missing quite a bit as as whether a new race would work with the existing story wasn’t the only concern. You’re forgetting about voice lines for the new races as well as having to rework all existing armor skins to fit the new race. Not to mention increase lead times for future skins.

All of this for something that adds little value except to RPers. A more simpler solution is just to add a few combat tonics for the race.

I get you don't want a new race. That's fine, but please stay on topic to the questions I actually posed. As I said, I'm running on the thesis that OTHER players DO want a playable race and I want to discuss how that CAN be introduced without breaking story. THAT is my focus here. I'm not downplaying anything, I'm focusing on JUST ONE issue which is story continuity. You are more than welcome of course to create a separate forum thread that discusses why adding a new race is impractical or undesirable, etc. But that is not the focus of this thread. Please respect that.

Story is one issue, but I think the biggest issue with adding in a new race is voice acting and armor/outifts.

If a Race can't reuse voice lines then I personally would think it ends there. Dwarves could use norn voice lines and Largos talk like humans with a distorted filter. But for something like Tengu who have a distinct voice you would have to have no voice lines for all past content or retcon their accent to be the same as a preexisting one we already have because rerecording every single line from the past 8 years would be a huge and expensive task just to add in a playable race.The same goes for armors and outfits. If they can't reuse them then again it's a huge amount of work to recreate them. again I think Dwarves could reuse Norn and Largos human.

If the game had the resources to redo all these things for a single race to be added I'd say go for it but they don't. there's plenty of parts of the game that are already put on the back burner that would be a much better use of time and money.

@"Solanum.6983" said:Story is one issue, but I think the biggest issue with adding in a new race is voice acting and armor/outifts.

If a Race can't reuse voice lines then I personally would think it ends there. Dwarves could use norn voice lines and Largos talk like humans with a distorted filter. But for something like Tengu who have a distinct voice you would have to have no voice lines for all past content or retcon their accent to be the same as a preexisting one we already have because rerecording every single line from the past 8 years would be a huge and expensive task just to add in a playable race.The same goes for armors and outfits. If they can't reuse them then again it's a huge amount of work to recreate them. again I think Dwarves could reuse Norn and Largos human.

If the game had the resources to redo all these things for a single race to be added I'd say go for it but they don't. there's plenty of parts of the game that are already put on the back burner that would be a much better use of time and money.

While your comment is valid, I do want to focus on story consistency here as it's the issue presented. Do you have any suggestions for not breaking story continuity as well? I do get that accents and ambient dialogue voice lines are an issue (etc.) and this is a similar problem to what I mentioned about recreating a whole backstory for the race's inclusion into the game to justify it's presence. But the focused discussion I'd like to have is "how can the story work" instead of more technical issues.

Well if you dont want to hear any other problems then with story then maybe update your topic title?So how would your distinguish bettwen different exhalted in the story without different armors?Since it would be a big nono if they can only be the blue or gold color thats in the game atm,would you ban the dragon colors since it seems they are corrupted by those dragons?

@"Camniel.7238" said:As I said, I'm running on the thesis that OTHER players DO want a playable race and I want to discuss how that CAN be introduced without breaking story.

I'm quite sure most players that are asking for a new playable race want a specific race, like Tengu or Largos, or Skritt, or Dwarves or whatever, and very few are saying a generic "please add a new race". So bringing up a new race that most players never asked for in the first place and calling it a "solution" to the desire to add a specific race, isn't going to work.

There is this thread here with suggestions and discussion over the topic of races:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/21242/new-playable-races-study-choose-your-favorite/p1

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Camniel.7238" said:As I said, I'm running on the thesis that OTHER players DO want a playable race and I want to discuss how that CAN be introduced without breaking story.

You linked a thread that just offers races you might want. It has nothing to do with how that race can be implemented into the story without causing retcons. Do you have a race or method of story implementation that would cause say the Tengu or other requested race to be introduced without retcons or similar story confusion?

How can the idea be plausible if it does not take into account any of the associated issues?
Would this new race only be allowed to interact with instanced story content? Would every 'Exalted' look exactly the same? If they all look the same, how would they use Gem Store items like Outfits and Backpacks? How does ArenaNet recoup the income loss?
Are they barred from interacting with previous story content? Are they barred from using Mounts, as they float above everything?
Would ArenaNet want to promote discouraging players from purchasing prior content?
What about the Core Tyria content? Is that no longer included (at no cost) with a new expansion featuring this new race? If so, is this new expansion offered at a substantially lower cost? Does that reflect favorably on ArenaNet's bottom line?

Just some things to consider.

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:How can the idea be plausible if it does not take into account any of the associated issues?

Would this new race only be allowed to interact with instanced story content? Would every 'Exalted' look exactly the same? If they all look the same, how would they use Gem Store items like Outfits and Backpacks? How does ArenaNet recoup the income loss?

Are they barred from interacting with previous story content? Are they barred from using Mounts, as they float above everything?

Would ArenaNet want to promote discouraging players from purchasing prior content?

What about the Core Tyria content? Is that no longer included (at no cost) with a new expansion featuring this new race? If so, is this new expansion offered at a substantially lower cost? Does that reflect favorably on ArenaNet's bottom line?

Just some things to consider.

It's called a narrowed down topic. I only wanted to focus on one concern and that concern was story continuity. All the rest can be figured out later but if a race muddles the story it needs to be thrown out or reimagined. It's sad that no one can actually talk about a presented topic and stay focused on that topic. I'm not saying there aren't other issues, I'm saying those associated questions are for a different discussion. But of course everyone else has to be rude and tell me off like I'm some kind of idiot when they simply are refusing to have a polite discussion on the question asked.

@Camniel.7238 said:

@"Solanum.6983" said:Story is one issue, but I think the biggest issue with adding in a new race is voice acting and armor/outifts.

If a Race can't reuse voice lines then I personally would think it ends there. Dwarves could use norn voice lines and Largos talk like humans with a distorted filter. But for something like Tengu who have a distinct voice you would have to have no voice lines for all past content or retcon their accent to be the same as a preexisting one we already have because rerecording every single line from the past 8 years would be a huge and expensive task just to add in a playable race.The same goes for armors and outfits. If they can't reuse them then again it's a huge amount of work to recreate them. again I think Dwarves could reuse Norn and Largos human.

If the game had the resources to redo all these things for a single race to be added I'd say go for it but they don't. there's plenty of parts of the game that are already put on the back burner that would be a much better use of time and money.

If we're going by just the story then I assume it'd be pretty easy to implement the friendly races like Largos, Skritt, Quaggan and others that already exist around the world during the personal story, They could have unique dialog like slyvari do in heart of thorns to help gel them in better, maybe some ambient dialog lines added in here and there.The other races like dwarves who aren't around and thought to be extinct at that time or the Exalted who weren't even discovered yet, Probably not an option since you'd have to rework story from Heart of thorns for the Exalted and Season 3 for the Dwarves.

@Camniel.7238 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Camniel.7238 said:As I said, I'm running on the thesis that OTHER players DO want a playable race and I want to discuss how that CAN be introduced without breaking story.

The easiest solution is when they add a new race, to start their story from that point onward. So if a new race is added with the expansion, it will only take part in the expansion content and forget the previous living world seasons and of course the previous expansions. For example, a playable Tengu will start from the Dominion of Winds, then move on to Cantha. Same with Largos, they'd be in their water city and find a reason to move to Cantha. They will never fight Zhaitan, Mordremoth or Kralkatorik.

And this isn't even a new idea, especially for Arenanet, it's how the story of Guild Wars Factions (and Nightfall) worked, players that started in Prophecies and players that started in Factions had a completely different story up to a certain point, interacting with different characters. Tyrians will have Dragon's Watch and be the champions of Aurene, Canthans will have a new story to become the champions of Kuunavang. In fact, disregarding a new race, I'd really love it if I could play a Canthan HUMAN (yes human), with a brand new Canthan exclusive storyline, that doesn't know anything about what's happening outside Cantha.

No need for retcons, no need to mess the story.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Camniel.7238 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Camniel.7238 said:As I said, I'm running on the thesis that OTHER players DO want a playable race and I want to discuss how that CAN be introduced without breaking story.

So 2 split stories bettwen new and old race in the expansion?

Well if they wanna dubble the work fine with me.

EditBecause I hope this suggestion is not that old players get no story at all in the new expansion.