In regards to condi -- a random recommendation.

I noticed that there are a LOT of complaints towards conditions, the number of them being used in the game, and most of all, its damage. The same CAN be said to boons, but that's a story for another day....

For now, let us talk about conditions, shall we?

...

We need a defensive Condition Damage modifier.

Why Arenanet hasn't talked about this? Or they did, and did not think it was a good idea? Unlike power damage, its another type of damage that works overtime, in ticks; you only need to press a skill, and it will do its tricky damage... AND THIS DAMAGE IGNORES ARMOR. It is one way to become a tanky necro that can spew out horrible damage-causing conditions... a kind of thing of which we can call as "CHEESE YOUR WAY TO VICTORY" kind of thing.

Is this an intended design from Arenanet when they created Conditions that causes damage? I.Do.Not.Know....

If Condition Damage was not nerfed in order to do its intended damage, why can't us players have a DEFAULT defense against it? Like a Stat, like Armor.... We have many skills that can cleanse, but aren't they just "Blocks", a mechanic where you are able to negate the incoming damage completely...?

I feel like there so many things that are ignored outright because of the concern's towards conditions when creating comps and personal builds in spvp and wvw scenarios... but in higher tiers of wvw, I guess they just accepted it that condi is powerful, and supports can just do the job of cleansing them, while also giving out many boons for there team, even converting them like with Engineer's Purity of Purpose, which is very powerful if you ask me.

You can also apply resistance, yes? oh, people can learn... many know that conditions and boons are very powerful in numbers, so why can't you just convert them, hmm? ah, so many necros and other skills that do these "conversions" nowadays...

But they can still overwhelm, as there are SO many skills that causes bleeding, confusion, torment, poison and burning (maybe even fear with necro's "Terror" trait), and all of them are powerful when spewed out from a condition comp player that is tanky-as-hell too... kinda unfair for a glass cannon, which has a high power, precision and ferocity build, which can deal (maybe...) as much damage as a bunker, condi-mirage or something, except they are in ticks of course... in ticks....

TLDR: WE NEED DEFENSIVE MODIFIER AGAINST CONDITION DAMAGE, LIKE ARMOR THAT CORRESPONDS WITH POWER DAMAGE.

P.S (Why cant you just let us pick our own stats, maybe just the secondary ones if you may, for our gear? oh... who am i kidding, its too late for that, and its too presumptuous for me to ask for it from an 8 year old game, with limited staff along with it... i think)EDIT: changed the Discussion Title.

Don't we already have a defensive stat vs. Conditions, known as Vitality?

@DeanBB.4268 said:Don't we already have a defensive stat vs. Conditions, known as Vitality?

more health over dmg is always the typical response... which is helped by armor, ANOTHER typical response for dmg...

Condi is fine. Cleansing is a thing. Take away cleansing and armor vs. Condi could work. Until then, it's a hard no unless you want condi to become completely irrelevant....which is, I think, exactly what a lot of condi whiners want.

@AliamRationem.5172 said:Condi is fine. Cleansing is a thing. Take away cleansing and armor vs. Condi could work. Until then, it's a hard no unless you want condi to become completely irrelevant....which is, I think, exactly what a lot of condi whiners want.

I want to argue that cleanses are like blocks that completely negates incoming damage, but for this case its just a removal of the applied dots.

But yes, it is right to take more vitality against condi players, but there are many instances where condi-damage is hard to remove as the the enemy wear bunker armor builds ...i guess not wearing any skills or traits that removes conditions and apply some resistance is a foolish move...

i guess im learning now, im just in the mindset that conditions are just backload damage, but its i guess this is fine now.

@Levinus.6532 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:Condi is fine. Cleansing is a thing. Take away cleansing and armor vs. Condi could work. Until then, it's a hard no unless you want condi to become completely irrelevant....which is, I think, exactly what a lot of condi whiners want.

The issue with condi tank builds is that they seem very OP against builds with poor cleanse or weak damage but are completely shut down by power builds that run cleanse and support builds.

Adding more passive sustain vs. Condi is in no way necessary and would simply kill condi for the meta.

I agree, ONLY if anet remove the condi cleanse mechanics.This is a direct counter to condi damage and it is super strong. Some builds clean conditions like there is no tomorrow.If there is an additional defensive condi modifier, the mitigation will be super broken. It will be so broken that it would be faster just to delete all conditions from the game.

defensive condi damage modifier + condi cleanse = baddefensive condi damage modifier OR condi cleanse = good

Also resistence boon exists.

Do you understand?

Even in PVE with full buffs and all offensive traitlines, burning is around 700 a tick per stack. The rest of the conditions tend to be around 200-300 damage.

This can be easily verified by the condition damage scaling in PVP/WVW game modes:

Burning : 0.155 x Condition Damage + 131 per second per stack ; +15% if running Amplified Wrath ( https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning )

Torment: 0.09 x Condition Damage + 31.8 per second per stack while moving ; +33% if running Demonic Lore ( https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Torment )0.045 x Condition Damage + 15.9 per second per stack in PVP/WVW while not moving

Poison: 0.06 x Condition Damage + 33.5 per second per stack ; +15% with Putrid Defense / +20% with Potent Poison / +25% with Poison Master ( https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Poisoned )

Bleeding: 0.06 x Condition Damage + 22 per second per stack ; +33% if running Hidden Barbs / +25% with Heartpiercer ( https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bleeding )

Confusion: 0.0975 x Condition Damage + 49.5 per second per stack when there's skill activation ( https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Confusion )10 damage per stack per second otherwise =)

Condi would only be a major problem if cleanses weren't a thing.

@Levinus.6532 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:Condi is fine. Cleansing is a thing. Take away cleansing and armor vs. Condi could work. Until then, it's a hard no unless you want condi to become completely irrelevant....which is, I think, exactly what a lot of condi whiners want.

Blocks work against abilities that apply conditions. So it’s not really equivalent to cleanse.

Cleanse is the “ unique mechanic” which mitigates conditions. Just like armor is the unique mechanic that mitigates power damage (and the weakness condition or protection boon to an extent). Armor versus cleanse is the correct comparison.

Cleanse is always something you have to build for—like extra toughness or protection. The problem is that a lot of the meta or high end builds assume the person playing them is able to handle the build at a high level. This means that the amount of cleanse in the build is sufficient for above average players and potentially insufficient for average players.

For example, I run a targeted cleanse on all damaging conditions except torment (24 second cooldown) and a second ability can cleanse three generic conditions on a 40 second cooldown). This is generally enough for me to sustain through the condition application of condition based opponents. But I’ve been told I’m wrong and that level of cleanse is too low to work. The difference is that I know how to play my build and avoid getting hit by all the enemy condi applying skills.

@saerni.2584 said:

@Levinus.6532 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:Condi is fine. Cleansing is a thing. Take away cleansing and armor vs. Condi could work. Until then, it's a hard no unless you want condi to become completely irrelevant....which is, I think, exactly what a lot of condi whiners want.

Same. I run one cleansing trait that gives me light but frequent cleansing. I have to be careful about condi bombs from classes like necro or mirage, but I don't consider condi an unmanageable threat.

Then I hear people talking about loading up on cleansing utilities and traits but still struggling and it doesn't make a lot of sense.

I also play condi builds and I can see how easy it is to shut these builds down when you run heavy cleansing.

Solution revert condis to the 2012 state set dmg and only gets a longer duration from condi dmg so pure zerker meta can rise again

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Solution revert condis to the 2012 state set dmg and only gets a longer duration from condi dmg so pure zerker meta can rise againAwesome, that would also mean no minstrels, no marauders, no 4 gear stats at all and maybe even condi gear like rabid becoming viable again since nothing outside of dire/trailblazer is viable today vs the insane power builds.

So yes I love your idea, bring condi back!

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Solution revert condis to the 2012 state set dmg and only gets a longer duration from condi dmg so pure zerker meta can rise againAwesome, that would also mean no minstrels, no marauders, no 4 gear stats at all and maybe even condi gear like rabid becoming viable again since nothing outside of dire/trailblazer is viable today vs the insane power builds.

Back then condi was not viable at all

Resistance. You're thinking of Resistance. I wouldn't be opposed to a boon that autocleanse condis before they're applied even. That's coming from a mostly condi player even. Way to shoot myself in the foot. I think it wouldn't probably help a lot of players actually using condi cleanse more. Most people know it exist, few people use it (before it's too late)

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Solution revert condis to the 2012 state set dmg and only gets a longer duration from condi dmg so pure zerker meta can rise againAwesome, that would also mean no minstrels, no marauders, no 4 gear stats at all and maybe even condi gear like rabid becoming viable again since nothing outside of dire/trailblazer is viable today vs the insane power builds.

I guess @Dawdler.8521 forced you to confess that your suggestion where too one sided... ;-)

All investment into condition builds would be negated or needed to change into power builds with your suggestion. Not to forget that at that time one-shotting everything where a common problem, so it would just cause issues where changes in meta where made to get away from that kind of met into what it have become today. I rather have this meta where we at least have some time to react then it become a question who can fire off all damage at once fastest.

This is purely of SPVP point of view.The issue is not condition damage this can be number tweaked, even though at least in pvp you don't need any other stats to be functional, on one had are the bonus cc conditions weakness, cripple,imobilise and so forth that are way stronger then their damage relatives and the way most conditions are applied ether by pulsing AOE spam large as the nodes in pvp ,as a floaty ranged attack with bad telegraph (most ranged attacks have bad telegraph and condi type attacks just double dip on that)or as a bonus passive trait that procs from random stuff .WvW is a whole different can of worms with server lag as a bonus.

We need a defensive Condition Damage modifier.

It's not like it's not already in the game:Runes:

• Rune of hoelbrak: -10% condi duration, -10% condi damage
• Rune of melandru: -20% condi duration
• Rune of resistance: -25% condi duration
• Rune of antitoxine: -25% condi duration
• Rune of Orr: -25% condi duration
• Rune of the sunless: -25% condi duration
• Rune of nature's bounty: -25% condi duration

Food:

• Plate of clove-spiced clear truffle ravioli: -20% duration
• Clove-spiced pear and cured meat flatbread: -20% duration
• Clove and veggie flatbread: -20% duration
• Sweet bean bun: -20% duration
• Clove-spiced creme brule: -20% duration
• Clove-spiced eggs benedict: -20% duration
• Orange clove cheese cake: -20% duration
• Plate of clove-spiced beef carpaccio: -20% duration
• Plate of clove-spiced poultry aspic: -20% duration
• Bowl of fruit salad with orange clove syrup: -20% duration
• Super hot lemongrass poultry soup: -20% duration
• Bowl of lemongrass poultry soup: -20% duration
• Spherified clove-spiced oyster soup: -20% duration

Aura:

• Dark aura: -10% condition damage

Signet:

• Signet of judgment: -10% condition damage

Stance:

• Dolhyak stance: -33% condition damage

Skill:

• Breakrazor bastion: -50% condition damage

Trait:

• Unhindered combatant: -10% condition damage
• Dark defiance: -20% condition damage
• Adaptive armor: -20% condition damage
• Versed in stone: -50% condition damage
• Righteous rebel: - 7% condition damage

... Etc.

Let's not pretend that it's an exhaustive list of things that are already in game. There are also quite a few automatic (or not) condi cleanse, resistance, block, dodge... etc.

Why can't you just let us pick our own stats, maybe just the secondary ones if you may, for our gear?

I'll answer your question: The reality is that even if you had the option you wouldn't take the option to reduce your incoming condition damage like you already do because each and every stats on your armor is precious and you'd think that it would be a waste to waste some of your potential for such a stat like it's a waste to take one of the rune/trait/skill with the desired effect.

People that complain against condition don't want way to deal with them they want conditions to be removed from the game because it bother their own way to play. Otherwise they would have long made use of the condi-hate which is already there in game.

NB.: I list condition duration reduction because it effectively limit the number of condition stacks you can have on you and thus effectively reduce the incoming condition damage.

@"DeanBB.4268" said:Don't we already have a defensive stat vs. Conditions, known as Vitality?

so tell me... does vitality only affect your life versus condi? do you drop to 11k health when fighting power damage? no?oh... so you're telling me that the "defensive stat versus conditions" work against power as well? so why is Toughness only affecting power?

if you don't see the problem here, i'm sorry for you

@Zawn.9647 said:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:Don't we already have a defensive stat vs. Conditions, known as Vitality?

Fair is fair. If we require this degree of parity, then we must be granted the ability to remove power damage after it has already been applied, even if it would have been fatal.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

We need a defensive Condition Damage modifier.

• Rune of hoelbrak: -10% condi duration, -10% condi damage
• Rune of melandru: -20% condi duration
• Rune of resistance: -25% condi duration
• Rune of antitoxine: -25% condi duration
• Rune of Orr: -25% condi duration
• Rune of the sunless: -25% condi duration
• Rune of nature's bounty: -25% condi duration

• Plate of clove-spiced clear truffle ravioli: -20% duration
• Clove-spiced pear and cured meat flatbread: -20% duration
• Clove and veggie flatbread: -20% duration
• Sweet bean bun: -20% duration
• Clove-spiced creme brule: -20% duration
• Clove-spiced eggs benedict: -20% duration
• Orange clove cheese cake: -20% duration
• Plate of clove-spiced beef carpaccio: -20% duration
• Plate of clove-spiced poultry aspic: -20% duration
• Bowl of fruit salad with orange clove syrup: -20% duration
• Super hot lemongrass poultry soup: -20% duration
• Bowl of lemongrass poultry soup: -20% duration
• Spherified clove-spiced oyster soup: -20% duration

• Dark aura: -10% condition damage

• Signet of judgment: -10% condition damage

• Dolhyak stance: -33% condition damage

• Breakrazor bastion: -50% condition damage

• Unhindered combatant: -10% condition damage
• Dark defiance: -20% condition damage
• Adaptive armor: -20% condition damage
• Versed in stone: -50% condition damage
• Righteous rebel: - 7% condition damage

Why can't you just let us pick our own stats, maybe just the secondary ones if you may, for our gear?

I think this post sums things up perfectly. People just aren't willing to sacrifice anything in their build. Add to that, conditions are poorly handled by the UI. It took me quite a lot of practice to be able to quickly recognise which conditions I had, which classes apply them, how hard it is going to hit. Some condi bombs require insta cleanse whereas others look bad but closer inspection reveals you only suffer from 1 stack of each condi for a second or two, so judging cleanse is extremely hectic during zerg fighting or even just an intense 5v5 on mid point.

I have an ideafor how condi UI could be improved;

Fixed position of condis. Currently, condis stack next to each other. No matter which condis are applied, they are bunched together. I think it should be changed so that they have assigned positions, which are ordered according to their cleanse priority. Basically this means of you look down at your condo UI, no matter whether you have 3 condis or 5 or 8, bleed, poison, etc will always appear in the exact same position on screen, leaving gaps in between condi debuff where necessary.

@"TrOtskY.5927" said:I have an ideafor how condi UI could be improved;

Fixed position of condis. Currently, condis stack next to each other. No matter which condis are applied, they are bunched together. I think it should be changed so that they have assigned positions, which are ordered according to their cleanse priority. Basically this means of you look down at your condo UI, no matter whether you have 3 condis or 5 or 8, bleed, poison, etc will always appear in the exact same position on screen, leaving gaps in between condi debuff where necessary.

This or simply make them bigger the more stack there is. Anyway only damaging conditions stack in intensity. If you see that there is a condition whose stack is twice as big as the other because it effectively have reach high number of stacks, I believe it's intuitive enough for a player to think: "ah! I should cleanse myself!".

@Zawn.9647 said:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:Don't we already have a defensive stat vs. Conditions, known as Vitality?

This would be an argument if the game claimed to be balanced in any way around condi resistance stats, but it is not, it is balanced around cleansing.

Condis application can already be evaded in the same way power damage can - use your dodge roll.

It sounds like you want it to be more uninteractive and more facetanky.

There are options btw to take less condi damage as posters in this thread have highlighted, so not only do you have evade, you have cleanse, you also have runes and traits and food that greatly reduces incoming condi damage.

@Zawn.9647 said:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:Don't we already have a defensive stat vs. Conditions, known as Vitality?

That logic doesn't check out, dude.

Conditions can get cleansed, unlike power damage. So if you want these 2 damage types to be absolutely equal, then make all condi cleanses in the game also heal back up the power damage done in the last x seconds as well.

Add a neck that gives toughness that works on conditions only, and I promise you NOBODY will use it. Its pointless, nobody uses condition damage, and even condi builds hit with power damage for at least 1/3 of their actual damage. Whats the point of adding dead stat that nobody will ever use. If you wanna have option to be strong against condi take resistance rune, resist on elite and -25% condi duration, but almost nobody does it since you have to give up power stats for it huh?

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Zawn.9647 said:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:Don't we already have a defensive stat vs. Conditions, known as Vitality?

does cleanse heal all the condi damage done in the last x seconds? i think i missed that :open_mouth: