The new fractal boss is a showcase for ranger upcoming spec. Change my mind

Aaand it looks so goood.Dual swords and shapeshift into the pet. Lots of AoE. I like it.For those who don't know what i'm talking about:

Hm, I kinda doubt it.

Spec should have AoE, but this seems to translate to a mobile damage dealer spec. In my opinion, ranger needs a bruiser spec with defensive mechanics like blocks.Also shape shifting into animals is thematically a bit too close to soulbeast for my taste.

@Kodama.6453 said:Hm, I kinda doubt it.

Spec should have AoE, but this seems to translate to a mobile damage dealer spec. In my opinion, ranger needs a bruiser spec with defensive mechanics like blocks.Also shape shifting into animals is thematically a bit too close to soulbeast for my taste.

You can build for bruiser with soulbeast or druid.Shapeshifting is very far away from melding in my opinion. It brings a lot of game if the pet is the same size as the ranger, something similar to mesmer gameplay with the clones

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:Hm, I kinda doubt it.

Spec should have AoE, but this seems to translate to a mobile damage dealer spec. In my opinion, ranger needs a bruiser spec with defensive mechanics like blocks.Also shape shifting into animals is thematically a bit too close to soulbeast for my taste.

I don't think that they would let you shapeshift into a werebeast and still have your pet fighting alongside you.

You can build soulbeast and druid bruiser builds, yeah. That is still not the same as having a bruiser spec by design.Soulbeasts are a dps spec, druids are a support spec.

To show what I mean: scrapper is designed as a bruiser spec. It has alot of selfish defensive mechanics (barrier for days, blocks, evades, reflects, damage dampener, stability....).It is used in support builds, but that does not mean that scrapper got designed as a support spec. It just means that people are using scrapper because they lack a proper support spec and scrapper is the best replacement currently available.

Same for ranger. You can build soulbeast and druid bruiser builds, but you just do because there is no actual bruiser spec available for you and you try to fill that slot with the best you can come up with.

Not to mention that offhand sword would be the most redundant and boring weapon they could come up with for the next elite spec....Soulbeast enabled rangers to dual wield daggers, then next spec allows to dual wield swords..... Too similar in my opinion.You know what rangers lack for a weapon? Something blunt, like mace or hammer.

With sword, dagger, axe, greatsword.... ranger has more than enough bladed weapons. Time for a change.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:Hm, I kinda doubt it.

Spec should have AoE, but this seems to translate to a mobile damage dealer spec. In my opinion, ranger needs a bruiser spec with defensive mechanics like blocks.Also shape shifting into animals is thematically a bit too close to soulbeast for my taste.

The concept for that raid boss is pretty amazing thou, having a sword offhand does not mean it has to be dull. It can be just a sword but as you see the boss uses magic to create different effects with it. Let's say the ranger in their search to become one with all becomes the master of the chi.

As such equiping the offhand sword could trigguer the mainhand weapons to have different skills. Something similar on how the thief works. And such a longbow ranger would not benefit from the new weapon set.

Shapeshifting into the pet is not a werebeast, the ranger takes the form of the pet not an hybrid like a combat transformation. The ranger in exchange to shapeshift into the equipped pet lose access to his weapon skillset , being forced to attack using the pet's skillset. Which i think is enough to balance the transformation.

It may still have access to it's utility skills yet so it's not an underwhelming transformation. This could bring a change to how the class is played as it can be an hybrid between elementalist and mesmer using the shapeshifting to redirect some damage. it could make the pet bigger so both looks the sameThe utility skills would be thematically Chi related and for what is shown in the trailer PbAoE with large areas of effect (although it would be 5 enemies after all).

Ranger does not need another bruiser concept, Druid was a bruiser by design and soulbeast has become a bruiser by the nerfs. Core is a very good bruiser by default. Ranger needs a new spec with a lot of access to offensives AoEs. It is the only thing missing for this class.

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:Hm, I kinda doubt it.

Spec should have AoE, but this seems to translate to a mobile damage dealer spec. In my opinion, ranger needs a bruiser spec with defensive mechanics like blocks.Also shape shifting into animals is thematically a bit too close to soulbeast for my taste.

Druid is a support, not a bruiser by design.There is a clear difference between these 2 elite spec types.

And while the gameplay for sword might bring something exciting, the weapon itself is still terribly boring thematically.Because you already have dual daggers, why dual swords now?

@Kodama.6453 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:Hm, I kinda doubt it.

Spec should have AoE, but this seems to translate to a mobile damage dealer spec. In my opinion, ranger needs a bruiser spec with defensive mechanics like blocks.Also shape shifting into animals is thematically a bit too close to soulbeast for my taste.

The shapeshif into the pet is to add a flavour to the class as it would have some aspects from Elementalist and mesmer. I think mechanicaly and thematically would be very interesting and good. Shapeshifting into the pet can bring additional benefits like increased movement speed or additional hp depending on the pet.

About Druid, druid is a bruiser with support capabilities the fact it self heals and has limited damage with access to a lot of Cc makes it a bruiser. In this game support is not a replacement for bruiser\dps.

@"anduriell.6280" said:um, you are right about being boring thematically. But what about if you equip offhand sword the mainhand skills change? something like how the thief works with offhand weapons?Then you have 2 other weapons (sword and axe) to up to 10 new different skills which they can build with the flavor the want. Sword MH can be PbAoE skills with a lot of evades and mobility while Axe can be ranged AoE skills with limited mobility and some reflects.The skills shown in the trailer are very cool, the leap with fire coming from the sides would be fantastic for the ranger. There can be seen also an skill which makes the boss to roll or crouch.The utility skills can be offensive AoE skills (as damag and cc) too and that should be enough to shift the ranger.

The shapeshif into the pet is to add a flavour to the class as it would have some aspects from Elementalist and mesmer. I think mechanicaly and thematically would be very interesting and good. Shapeshifting into the pet can bring additional benefits like increased movement speed or additional hp depending on the pet.

About Druid, druid is a bruiser with support capabilities the fact it self heals and has limited damage with access to a lot of Cc makes it a bruiser. In this game support is not a replacement for bruiser\dps.

I really don't get why you come up with the idea that druid is a bruiser.Being able to heal doesn't make you a bruiser automatically.

Scourge is also a bruiser in your opinion then?Scrapper is a bruiser with some support capabilities, since the main focus of the class is about the own survival, while being able to grant some benefits to allies around.Druid on the other hand doesn't have such a big emphasis on it's own survival, it is mostly designed to help keeping others alive.

Druid also doesn't get any offense, the contrary actually. They have to give up some damage from their pet for their elite spec and the spec itself doesn't have a single damage modifier in the trait line, something all other bruiser specs have.Scrapper: object in motion, applied force (+200 power while under quickness, not a damage modifier, but a good bonus for power builds regardless)Daredevil: staff master, havoc specialist, lotus training, bounding dodgerSpellbreaker: pure strike, magebane tether

Druid doesn't have any damage modifiers at all. Almost the entire trait line is centered on healing and supporting other players.

We also don't have a reason to believe that equipping a new elite spec weapon will change skills of a mainhand weapon, there is no precedence for that.Also the fireballs coming from the dash don't really say "ranger", if you ask me. That is more of an elementalist thing (but I doubt that this also has anything to do with elementalist).

Whet?? 0 - 0I get extreme Elementalist vibes with the woman controlling the elements....where exactly do you see ranger??

@kroof.5468 said:Whet?? 0 - 0I get extreme Elementalist vibes with the woman controlling the elements....where exactly do you see ranger??

Most likely he saw the fire leopard and the holy forest deer god (or something) and thought of ranger that way.

Seems to me that he thinks the leopard and the boss are the same being transforming. Only thing pointing in that direction for me could be that both have a fire thematic.

for sure this is not a ranger spec. I do think Guardian will get and off-hand sword.

In my opinion, the ranger needs a scepter or shield.Scepter could be some cool nature-based skills roots coming out of the ground, etcThe shield could have something with reflecting light to block stuff and blind

but my dream since launch = Rifle, with ammo types as F skills (fire, poison, etc type ammo)The pets abilities open up a target to be weaker to ammo type X this to create some randomness

@Halbarz.3854 said:for sure this is not a ranger spec. I do think Guardian will get and off-hand sword.

In my opinion, the ranger needs a scepter or shield.Scepter could be some cool nature-based skills roots coming out of the ground, etcThe shield could have something with reflecting light to block stuff and blind

but my dream since launch = Rifle, with ammo types as F skills (fire, poison, etc type ammo)The pets abilities open up a target to be weaker to ammo type X this to create some randomness

Another idea for scepter: they could make it a magical whip. The scepter is the handle, then you are creating a green magical whip (could look like a vine) you are swinging around for your attacks. Elementalist does something similar with air dagger.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Halbarz.3854 said:for sure this is not a ranger spec. I do think Guardian will get and off-hand sword.

In my opinion, the ranger needs a scepter or shield.Scepter could be some cool nature-based skills roots coming out of the ground, etcThe shield could have something with reflecting light to block stuff and blind

but my dream since launch = Rifle, with ammo types as F skills (fire, poison, etc type ammo)The pets abilities open up a target to be weaker to ammo type X this to create some randomness

that would be cool and it could empower out pets at the same time. granting them boons and additional damage.Maybe allowing us to summon our second pet for a short time even.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@kroof.5468 said:Whet?? 0 - 0I get extreme Elementalist vibes with the woman controlling the elements....where exactly do you see ranger??

Also the boss (the woman) uses skill sword#2 (the Hornet Sting thing) You can see it at 0:33 mark.

It is definitely a ranger skill thus this is definitely the new ranger spec.

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@kroof.5468 said:Whet?? 0 - 0I get extreme Elementalist vibes with the woman controlling the elements....where exactly do you see ranger??

1. Even if this particular boss is supposed to be a ranger, that still doesn't necessarily mean that this is going to be the new ranger spec. We also had engineer bosses using poison mines in the game, yet we still don't have this as an elite spec.
2. That is not sword#2, since that skill has a lightning animation and ranger's sword doesn't. There is no reason to believe that the coming elite spec will change weapons of the class which are already established like ranger's mainhand sword. The lightning and fire animations also really make her look more like an elementalist than a ranger.

See, I get it, you are excited. But I think you are jumping to conclusions too early here if you are claiming that this is going to be the next elite spec for ranger.

Naa i doubt it.

Assuming we get that spec just because of a new boss seems kinda random.

Otherwise i would like to get more AoE.I doubt that an animal transformation will be a thing, especially after soulbeast.(and i can't see anything related to that in the video anyway)I agree with some of the above that a more defensive tool kit such as a shield or doible mace etc. would be hitting a better missing niche than OH sword.

Boss' armor looked waaaay to light armor-y to evoke ranger for me.

Thematically mace makes more sense to me than hammer as a blunt weapon or a shield offhand. Of the sort of ranger fantasy archetypes available, I feel like ANet consistently leans hard on the nature/hunter/beastmaster aspects of the class, and although I know hammer ranger was a thing in GW1, I just don't see a place for it in GW2 ranger themes. Same goes for shield - to me, shields are tied quite closely to organized combat, and feels like a departure from the naturalist hunter with beast friends thing we have going on. A mace, however, is pretty much a one-handed club, which is among the most ancient hunting weapons out there. And yes, hammers could essentially be described as just really big clubs, but they're two handed weapons in GW2, and thus to me lose their "it's just a club" feel.

What I really wanted was a Huntsman (or some more ungendered name to suit our times) spec with rifle, but that ship has long since sailed with Deadeye, I think. Also, the rifle would be yet another single target dps weapon, which the class doesn't really need imo.

I’m hoping we don’t get an offhand weapon, we have plenty of those. We lack main hand weapons, axe or sword, or dagger with soulbeast with none of them being any better than our 2 handed weapons... But knowing how anet works, we will end up with a shield or something.

@"Kodama.6453" said:

2. That is not sword#2, since that skill has a lightning animation and ranger's sword doesn't. There is no reason to believe that the coming elite spec will change weapons of the class which are already established like ranger's mainhand sword. The lightning and fire animations also really make her look more like an elementalist than a ranger.Well as i said, equipping offhand sword changes your Main Hand skills. It could be also Lighting Reflexes.

@voltaicbore.8012 said:Boss' armor looked waaaay to light armor-y to evoke ranger for me.Ever heard from Outfits? Anet has establish the looks does not mean anything anymore.

@Abyssisis.3971 said:I’m hoping we don’t get an offhand weapon, we have plenty of those. We lack main hand weapons, axe or sword, or dagger with soulbeast with none of them being any better than our 2 handed weapons... But knowing how Anet works, we will end up with a shield or something.Well we got a two hand weapon with the druid and a mainhand weapon with the Soulbeast. I'd say it's time to get an offhand weapon.

Well as i said, having an offhand weapon doesn't mean it needs to be dull or boring. It is enough so weapon skills depends of the Main Hand weapon you equip with the off hand sword. We could get 10 new weapon skills with the offhand sword and i think that's more than enough for any weapon to cover any bases.

Plus the utility skills. As it is shown in the trailer it seems the utility skills are channelling skills. Would be interesting if we as players can cancel the channel at any moment to trigger the effect being the more powerful the more we channel.So if you trigger the effect very fast you get a low effect and if you are allowed to channel the effects could be devastating. And because of that the spec could have short cooldowns on the utility skills and those skills are balanced by how long are you channelling. Some trait could provide some long lasting stab stacks when starting the channel.

The shapeshifting into the pet is to give a new flavor to the class and another mechanic so it's not a brain dead smash buttons on CD. The new spec simply gain access to the pets skills from 1 to 4 including the F2 on 4. and 5 some family or archetype skill. This is good because somehow also may bring some core pets into play and different from soulbeast as now the player can't use normal weapons and being limited to the pet skills in exchange for some additional speed or stats based on the family pet. And new pets can be done in a very interesting ways to promote this style of play. This opens up a new gameplay where the spec get some mechanics from Mesmer.

So this new spec would be based on Elementalist with some touches from thief (weapons) and mesmer (shapeshifting) .

Shapeshifting is shown in the trailer by the talking deer. Otherwise how a deer is able to talk when no other animals have ever talked in this game. Also it is shown when the party meet the firey cat, the voice sounds echoish like from the deer which means the boss is shapeshifted into the cat. After that the voice sounds clear when she is shown fighting.

@anduriell.6280 said:

@"Kodama.6453" said:

2. That is not sword#2, since that skill has a lightning animation and ranger's sword doesn't. There is no reason to believe that the coming elite spec will change weapons of the class which are already established like ranger's mainhand sword. The lightning and fire animations also really make her look more like an elementalist than a ranger.Well as i said, equipping offhand sword changes your Main Hand skills. It could be also Lighting Reflexes.

And I said there is no reason to believe that this will be the case, Anet never changed core weapons with elite specs, so I don't see it happening now. This is just wishful thinking.

Well we got a two hand weapon with the druid and a mainhand weapon with the Soulbeast. I'd say it's time to get an offhand weapon.

Elite specs are supposed to give something that the class is lacking, they are not strictly sticking to a pattern when it comes to the weapon types. Thief got 2 2handed weapons in a row (staff, rifle).

Shapeshifting is shown in the trailer by the talking deer. Otherwise how a deer is able to talk when no other animals have ever talked in this game.

The animals shown in the trailer are obviously magical, so it isn't really too weird that they are talking. We also talked plenty of times with the spirits of the wild (which in the end are magical animal spirits, too).

@Kodama.6453 said:The animals shown in the trailer are obviously magical, so it isn't really too weird that they are talking. We also talked plenty of times with the spirits of the wild (which in the end are magical animal spirits, too).Heressy!!!

@Kodama.6453 said:And I said there is no reason to believe that this will be the case, Anet never changed core weapons with elite specs, so I don't see it happening now. This is just wishful thinking.Weaver did change all core weapons. It is not unknown for Anet to do that, also it has reworked core weapons before. Our Maul is reworked for the soulbeast, working differently when we are merged or not.

@Kodama.6453 said:Elite specs are supposed to give something that the class is lacking, they are not strictly sticking to a pattern when it comes to the weapon types. Thief got 2 2handed weapons in a row (staff, rifle).I agree Elite specs are supposed to give something the class lacks and for the ranger more than anything is Offensives AoEs. That is being stated a hundred times in the forums already.

We already have a semi-support Bruiser with druid and a semi-support single target Dps with soulbeast and a Bruiser with core. We need an ranged and point blank multi-target Offensive spec this time.

Requesting a new spec for something which is already supposed to do another aspect of the class is not the solution. It's like requesting new pets because core pets are a trashfire.

@anduriell.6280 said:Weaver did change all core weapons. It is not unknown for Anet to do that, also it has reworked core weapons before. Our Maul is reworked for the soulbeast, working differently when we are merged or not.

True, but that was because of the new mechanic of attuning to 2 elements at the same time. As long as there is no new mechanic involved which makes changing core weapons necessary, I don't see that happening.

I agree Elite specs are supposed to give something the class lacks and for the ranger more than anything is Offensives AoEs. That is being stated a hundred times in the forums already.

You can get offensive AoE spells in a bruiser spec, seems you are not aware of that.Daredevil offered AoE damage through staff for the thief.Scrapper offered AoE damage through hammer and some of the gyros (blast gyro and shredder gyro).

We already have a semi-support Bruiser with druid and a semi-support single target Dps with soulbeast and a Bruiser with core. We need an ranged and point blank multi-target Offensive spec this time.

How many times more.... druid is NOT a bruiser spec. It is a pure support spec, actually even the purest support spec of them all.A bruiser can provide some of the stuff you are asking for, being offensive AoE, bruiser specs even have some damage modifiers (ALL bruiser specs have this, druid doesn't have a single damage modifier in their trait line btw, since druids are no bruisers).

It's just that a bruiser spec is not all in on damage. There are dps specs which put way more emphasis on damage, like berserker, holosmith, soulbeast....Then there are bruiser specs, which have some damage, but also alot of defense in their traits and skills, like scrapper, daredevil, spellbreaker.

What ranger is lacking are additional defensive mechanics while being able to deal AoE damage in the middle of the enemies.

@Kodama.6453 said:True, but that was because of the new mechanic of attuning to 2 elements at the same time. As long as there is no new mechanic involved which makes changing core weapons necessary, I don't see that happening.So you prove my point and what is necessary and not is for the devs to decide. Definitely i see possible to add 10 new weapon skills when an offhand is being equipped.

You can get offensive AoE spells in a bruiser spec, seems you are not aware of that.Daredevil offered AoE damage through staff for the thief.Scrapper offered AoE damage through hammer and some of the gyros (blast gyro and shredder gyro).Of course you can get some damage being a bruiser. Like Druid does with Axe Mainhand (which also offers a ranged AoE one of the 2 ranger has). But what i said was what the ranger lacks is an offensive AoEs as DPS offensive AoEs. We need an ranged and point blank multi-target Offensive spec this time as output damage to multiple targets. Is some CC in there ? Sure also some CC and some self-sustain in there.

For ranged CC bruiser esque we already have Druid. Lunar impact is an ranged Offensive AoE which dazes. Seed of Life applies Blinds. The Glyphs are also PbAoE CCs with equality and tides.

A bruiser can provide some of the stuff you are asking for, being offensive AoE, bruiser specs even have some damage modifiers (ALL bruiser specs have this, druid doesn't have a single damage modifier in their trait line btw, since druids are no bruisers).

Offensive damage modifier: Grace of the land. Before nerf was a 10% all damage increase, now might stacks enough to keep perma 25. Glyph of Empowerment: Before the nerf it was another plain 10% all damage increase.

Additionally it has access to the pet and all the skills which empowered the pet like sicem, signet of the wild (before the nerf) plus all the damage modifiers from core traitlines.

Defensive tools: Celestial shadow, Druidic clarity, Glyph of equality, Glyph of tides, Natural Convergence, Seed of life, Verdant Etching, Sublime conversion, Vine Surge, Glyph of unity And Primal Echoes plus all the self healing.

Druid is a top bruiser spec you saying is not doesn't make it true. I has (well it had) plenty of damage modifiers and plenty of defensive tools to be define as a bruiser, and that's why the Druid was used as Bruiser at the beginning of Hot. Again Druid is a Bruiser with some support (only heals as such it can not be considered real support like a heal necro or an FB can be) .

Look i get it, you want a warrior like spec for the ranger with a lot of blocks, CCs and immunities. That is boring, mechanically uninteresting, lazy development and definitely doesn't have anything remarkable about it. And we have already Warrior.

Soulbeast if properly buffed by Anet could fill that itch you have. It has CC, immunities and evades. Otherwise If you want a warrior go play with a warrior. If you want a warrior with a pet go use runes of the ogre or pirate with your warrior and RP with your pet.

As i said asking for a new spec for something it should be already there is not smart. Like asking for new pets instead for reworking the ones we have. Ask for a rework of the existing tools which because of nerfs lost their use is a better use of development time. And what ranger definitely lacks is Damage / offensive AoEs

@anduriell.6280 said:Aaand it looks so goood.

That sentence is why it doesn't showcase any futur e-spec.

Yeah, I have a feeling we'd get one of the two options:BIG pet , giving immense pet bonus/ ability but in return you can only have one pet with no swapping abilityMultipet -> having 2 pets active at once.

Or maybe we get both but different trait options for big pet or multi pet.